Episode 195 David Crocker Unleash the Power of Serving Transcript

This transcript is from episode 195 with guest David Crocker.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Thanks for tuning into the Drive On Podcast where we’re focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran active duty guard reserve or family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott Lucio.

[00:00:18] Scott DeLuzio: And now let’s get on with the show.

[00:00:21] Scott DeLuzio: Most people believe that serving others is a nice thing to do, but it doesn’t really make much of a difference today. My guest David crocker is going to talk about how serving others, not only makes our communities better places to live in, but also helps us get a handle on our own mental health and our own wellbeing.

[00:00:49] Scott DeLuzio: So welcome to the show, David, I’m glad to have

[00:00:51] David Crocker: you on.

[00:00:55] Scott DeLuzio: For the listeners who might not be familiar with you would you be able to tell us a little bit about yourself and your [00:01:00] background?

[00:01:01] David Crocker: Sure. Scott, I was a minister, a pastor of churches for about 30 years. And about half of that time, the latter half focused on serving others. Didn’t, wasn’t really aware at that time, the direction that would go in my life.

[00:01:17] David Crocker: But 15 years ago, really after I left the past. I started a nonprofit it’s called operation in as much. You’ll appreciate the fact that the first word operation was taken from they started in a military community. They able to North Carolina. And so as you know, a lot of your listeners know everything is called operation, this, that, or the other in the military.

[00:01:39] David Crocker: So that’s why we named it. And in as much comes from the Bible verse, Matthew 25 40 in as much as you’ve done it to the least of these, you’ve done it to me. And so basically it’s a model to get people out in the community church folk in particular, but others to to care for people in need. [00:02:00] So about 15 years ago, I left the ministry, so to speak and founded that nonprofit.

[00:02:08] David Crocker: And have been working in that ever since I’m on a kind of semi-retired basis right now. But as a result of that I have the focus of my last 20 years really has been helping people to find their place of service, a meaningful one to experience the joy of serving and certainly to help other people and encourage them as they can.

[00:02:31] David Crocker: So that’s the short version, I guess, of the.

[00:02:35] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And you’re also an army veteran. I wanted to throw that in as well, just to make sure that the listeners know who we’re talking to here. So, on this show, we talked to a lot of military veterans who they’re trying to find themselves after coming back into civilian life, after leaving the service.

[00:02:55] Scott DeLuzio: And sometimes they feel like they’re. [00:03:00] Kind of lost. Like they don’t know what that next step is. And a lot of them I think, could benefit from the, maybe let’s call it therapeutic effects of serving others. So what are some of the benefits that you’ve found over your career? All these years of giving back and serving other people?

[00:03:23] David Crocker: So, let me just start by saying that the writing of the book that has recently been released, compassion areas, unleashed the power of serving has helped me to dig more deeply into the entire subject of serving. I call it a kind of a primmer on serving because it explores so many aspects, including.

[00:03:44] David Crocker: The benefits. So, the benefits began with what we get from serving that is those of us who are serving the first is what I call a happiness trifecta. It begins with what I would describe as [00:04:00] the psychological or emotional benefits of serving. We sometimes hear the term helpers high and that’s because.

[00:04:10] David Crocker: Our brains are literally hardwired to benefit from serving others. We get the same sort of stimulus in the right portion of the brain that releases oxytocin, serotonin, dopamine, those kinds of. Sort of chemical hormones that boot tend to boost our mood. And that’s why we get the helper’s high. What’s interesting is at the same time, the hormone cortisol, which is tends to cause us to feel a bit more depressed or down.

[00:04:48] David Crocker: Is reduced. So the good is boosted and the bad is reduced. So that’s why I say we’re definitely hardwired to serve. Well, there’s another part of that. That’s the [00:05:00] first part of the trifecta. The second is we’re strengthened in our relationships with others. We know that we’re social beings. But the fact of the matter is not everything we do contributes to that benefit.

[00:05:14] David Crocker: Serving seems to do that better than many things. Those with whom we serve alongside we, we get along with him better. We develop deeper relationships. I often say we grow in our relationships with people, shoulder to shoulder as much or more than we do face to face. And so that part of that are our emotional makeup.

[00:05:39] David Crocker: If you will, is boosted. And then we find our purpose when we serve others, a lot of times people find their purpose. They may be giving you an example of that. So I have a friend, I volunteered at a local organization. In fact, I just left there to come be a part of this interview. And we work.[00:06:00]

[00:06:00] David Crocker: He was a very successful businessman in his community. Owned four businesses was a leader in the community. I mean, he had people would’ve thought he had it going, but he felt sort of empty. Eventually sold his businesses, bought a boat, went up and down the rivers of this country for awhile then kind of settled in.

[00:06:20] David Crocker: He kept looking, there’s something else there. And he found them an ad for a local nonprofit looking for an employee, a volunteer manager. And he said, You know, I manage some employees. I think I can manage the volunteers, went to work with them. They work with homeless people. He found his purpose.

[00:06:38] David Crocker: He found greater happiness in doing that than anything he had done before. In fact, he describes himself one day, literally skipping down the street, like a child. Because he was so happy in what he was doing. That’s just an example of a person who finds their purpose. Okay. So the happiness trifecta I’ll move on fairly quickly.[00:07:00]

[00:07:00] David Crocker: The other benefits are serving gives people hope. That’s true. Not only for the person or the people being served, but it’s also true for the people doing the service. And I can elaborate more on that if you’d like a look and then finally serving Bill’s community. So that’s a definite benefit. We’re very divided, unfortunately, in our country today for a lot of different reasons.

[00:07:26] David Crocker: And we’re looking for ways to build bridges. Well, serving is one way to do that and I could illustrate that through another. Of stories, but those are the main things that happen is trifecta. The helper’s high that we get the strength of relationship found a purpose gives people hope and builds community.

[00:07:47] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And all of these benefits from there, there really seems like there’s no downside to. Serving other people and part of this podcast. And I [00:08:00] didn’t really realize it when I started this podcast, but in a way, this is also serving the military community, right? This is giving valuable information, resources, inspiring stories, really at the end of the day, giving hope to people who might be.

[00:08:16] Scott DeLuzio: Sitting alone at their house suffering in silence, who might not realize that there is hope out there for them. And so in a way that’s serving too. And it may not be a one-on-one relationship where I’m not necessarily sitting in that person’s house saying, Hey, let’s go, get you some help and whatever, but you know, this is a way to serve the broader military, the veteran community.

[00:08:41] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and you’re right. It, when I have these conversations, it gives me the sense of purpose, a sense of meaning, I might have. A dozen other things that I need to do today for my, my regular job. I might have stuff going on with my family, my kids, all that kind of stuff.

[00:08:57] Scott DeLuzio: But when I’m here and I’m doing this is my [00:09:00] purpose right now, I’m focused on helping these other people by sharing messages. Like the one that you’re sharing right now. And so, for me, I found this is. My purpose. This is my thing that I’m doing to give back and serve. Will it be the thing that I do forever?

[00:09:16] Scott DeLuzio: Who knows, but it’s something that I’m doing right now. I find a lot of meaning and purpose behind it. And it may evolve into something else down the line. But one thing that you mentioned is how serving gives hope not just to the people who are being served, but also to the people who are doing the serving.

[00:09:37] Scott DeLuzio: I’d like to. Dig into that a little bit more, because like I was saying, this part of this podcast is to give hope to the people who may feel hopeless. And that to me is a big thing. So I’d love for you to maybe share some stories or give a little more on that type of

[00:09:52] David Crocker: thing. Sure. Yeah. I love talking about that because what I find Scott is that most people think they [00:10:00] understand serving and they do but at a kind of a shadow level.

[00:10:05] David Crocker: But there are things about it that they’ve never really thought about. And this is one of I’m getting that kind of feedback from people who read the book from groups where I go and speak to them and so forth. So, this is one of the reasons I look forward to this interview in part, in my research for the book, I ran across a book that was written by a former.

[00:10:26] David Crocker: Who served in Afghanistan and Iraq, and he liked so many others in that with that experience struggled to find his way back into civilian life. As you know, military life offers a structure that is offers a kind of security, which is interesting because when you serve in the military, You give up a whole lot of security in other ways.

[00:10:53] David Crocker: But anyway, so, he like so many others, he was struggling with that. So one day he was [00:11:00] watching the news and the earthquake that took place. And so devastated the island of Haiti, one of the poorest countries, certainly in our, part of the. And he just decided he would do something. So he called a few of his ex Marine buddies and said, Hey, how about going with me to Haiti?

[00:11:18] David Crocker: And let’s see what we can do to help. And so they got on a plane, they got there, I don’t know, four or five, 10 of them, no more than that small group. And they did what they could to try to alleviate that. And it went so well. And of course, as military people, they knew how to get things. Which we let them know that they were accomplishing something.

[00:11:38] David Crocker: But it went so well that he found another disaster and said let’s respond to that. And then long story short, he eventually formed a group called team Rubicon, which has been recognized by I think he was he on the ESPN awards SB awards. I think they call it, but for [00:12:00] because he patterned some of this after I’m trying to think of the name of the football players, a high profile football player who.

[00:12:06] David Crocker: Gave up his football career and went and fought pat

[00:12:09] Scott DeLuzio: Tillman. Yes.

[00:12:10] David Crocker: That’s the one. Yep. And so anyway this is now a growing blowing organization with support to the tune of millions of dollars from companies across the country involving lots of ex military, some civilian to. And they become very effective.

[00:12:29] David Crocker: And he says over and over in the book, what this has done has helped these military people who have struggled to find their way once again, have that semi military type experience, but doing it too for the benefit of others. And so that serving experience in that context has given them a strong sense of purpose.

[00:12:54] David Crocker: And there’s no telling how many have avoided some of the [00:13:00] sadder outcomes. If you will, of military veterans who struggle with those kinds of things, one of the things that happens with the benefit to a person serving is it builds their self-esteem. That’s. Without exception, even for the smallest experience of serving as we feel good about doing what we can to help others that just naturally have boosts our, the way we feel about ourselves, the self value that we have.

[00:13:33] David Crocker: And boy, I tell ya I wish it were possible to bottle that up and give it away to all of these veterans because they just. My goodness. They have given up more than the rank and file people of this country will ever know. I’m grateful that there seems now to be a genuine gratitude for the service.

[00:13:54] David Crocker: We frequently hear the phrase. Thank you for your service. People say that to me sometimes when they hear I was in the army and I [00:14:00] feel bad about even saying sure. Thank you. Because I didn’t have to see combat. I was fortunate in that regard. I worked an office job. At Fort Campbell, Kentucky for two and a half years.

[00:14:12] David Crocker: And did the best I could. But I didn’t see any combat my life wasn’t on the line. So I don’t feel altogether good about receiving that, but I understand people are trying to, I don’t want to discourage them from thanking others for their service because they need that. Anyway. The whole thing is a critical factor.

[00:14:31] David Crocker: One more thing. And then. Let you jump in. One of the things I found in researching that aspect of serving is that people can live without almost anything, at least for a period of time, except hope. I ran across a psychologist by the name of Dale Archer, who was able to work with victims of hurricane.

[00:14:59] David Crocker: [00:15:00] Katrina and Rita, both of which fairly well devastated new Orleans, he found that there were two kinds of victims, psychological survivors and psychological victims, and what they lost or how much they lost or who they lost was not a way of distinguishing between the two, but how much. The psychological survivors had versus the victims survivors, no matter what they lost, who they lost, if they kept hope, they persevere, but the victims couldn’t get past their losses.

[00:15:41] David Crocker: It’s because they lost their hope. And so his conclusion is, and I think it’s right. And I think I’ve seen it in the lives of some people, those who have lost. They just can’t, they just can’t carry on. So when we serve people, we give them hope. We show them that [00:16:00] somebody cares. We hopefully alleviate their immediate need, whether it’s food or shelter or some other sort of help that we can give them.

[00:16:12] David Crocker: But we also show them that we care and that’s where the hope comes in. We give them. And hope. And those two things come together. And I have said in my book, that hope is a stowaway with serving. And what I mean by that, it comes along with the serving. We may not be aware of it at the moment, but it’s there and it is therapeutic.

[00:16:36] Scott DeLuzio: It absolutely is. A couple of things that I want to just circle back to. What you talked about there one of the things that you said with regards to your service in the military and how you don’t feel comfortable with the, thank you for your service on your end. Something that I tell everybody, whether they served in combat or [00:17:00] not it could be, after nine 11 during.

[00:17:03] Scott DeLuzio: Time when we were at war some people never saw combat, even though they served during that time period it could be before nine 11 and in a peacetime environment, it could be any number of situations. Right. Ultimately everybody who served. Signed up and said, I’m going to do whatever the country is asking me to do at this time.

[00:17:27] Scott DeLuzio: And that’s the same thing that I, the same message I have for you is and anyone else who maybe didn’t see combat. You did what the country asked you to do at that point, the need was they needed you to be there in that office at Fort Campbell. And that’s what you did. And in order for other things to take place, there may have been other combat operations or other preparations for combat operations.

[00:17:52] Scott DeLuzio: They needed that, that person, which in this case, being you to do that job in that office, Allow other [00:18:00] things to take place. So it’s a big machine. And if any of the gears aren’t turning, right. It’s just not gonna work well. So, I still think any, anyone who served no matter in what capacity is definitely worthy of the thanks and the operation of other people who want to thank them for this.

[00:18:15] David Crocker: And I would say what I would say in response to that. I appreciate you saying that. And I do understand what you’re saying. I am proud. I served I’m very proud to to have worn the uniform. And regardless of the particular job that I had, I did try to do my best. And I think I did well and perform a duty that was necessary.

[00:18:36] David Crocker: And fortunately, my job was processing a waltz. He was in the early days of the all volunteer army and there were a lot of a walls. There were a lot of people that weren’t fit for service. A judge somewhere said, okay, it’s the army or it’s jail. That’s a no brainer. Or at least I think it is. And consequently, they didn’t stay and they left.

[00:18:58] David Crocker: And so they were brought to our facility [00:19:00] and. We handled their case in whatever way we felt was important or appropriate for them. But I am very proud to have worn the uniform. Still have it, can’t wear it anymore, but I still have it. And so yeah it does give me a good feeling when my grandkids especially call me up and say, thank you for your service on veteran’s day.

[00:19:24] David Crocker: And. That’s dealing with me to the grave.

[00:19:30] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And that’s a great feeling to have to, especially with those younger generations, looking up to you and saying, that’s something special, something important that you did in your life. And talking about the the people who have gone AWOL and have deserted or, whatever it is that they have done.

[00:19:51] Scott DeLuzio: It was actually leading into my next point. Just having to work out that way about, you’re talking about how keeping hope with those hurricanes, right? Where [00:20:00] were the people who were survivors versus victims, right. They there’s just that difference in the hope that they had. I know when I was in basic training we had several people who went AWOL during basic training.

[00:20:13] Scott DeLuzio: They just, in the middle of the night, they up and left and sometimes we, they came back, they were caught or whatever or I think one or two of them and we never saw again and they just never came back. So, or if they did, they went to someplace else and they’re just not heard of, but.

[00:20:32] Scott DeLuzio: I remember when I was in basic training, it was, there were some things that we did that were incredibly difficult for me personally. And I remember thinking to myself, if I could just make it to that next. Thing that next milestone or whatever, then things will be okay. Right. And it even got to the point where some days I was breaking it down to just meals.

[00:20:57] Scott DeLuzio: If I can make it to breakfast, I’ll be [00:21:00] good. If I can make it to lunch, I’ll be good dinner. I’ll be good. And then, okay now dinner’s over. So now I just gotta make it to the lights out and I’ll be okay. And so I broke it down to small little chunks and that, that gave me hope to say, okay, I don’t need to look at this as like the however many weeks are left or whatever.

[00:21:19] Scott DeLuzio: It’s, I need to look at this small micro thing and that gave me the encouragement to keep going. So I wasn’t overwhelming myself with this big picture of whatever was going on. It was really just focusing on these small little obstacles that I had to get over. And. It really helped to keep the hope in me to say, okay, this isn’t that bad.

[00:21:43] Scott DeLuzio: I can get through this. I can do this. And. And it worked. I never went AWOL. I graduated. I served, with with honor and everything. I felt like, I did that same kind of thing throughout my military career [00:22:00] because there was other things too, other. Long ruck marches that we would do, or even on deployment, you get overseas and you’re over there and it’s like, okay, now I have all these months ahead of me before I get to come back home.

[00:22:16] Scott DeLuzio: And it’s like, okay, I can’t do that to myself. I need to encourage myself to keep going and everything. So it’s really about the mindset. And I think. Doing certain things we’ll help you get to that mindset. But what were the differences between the people who had more of that victim mentality and the people who were the survivors in the analogy that you were given?

[00:22:40] David Crocker: Well, it just pretty much what what I say is what I read in the article about the difference in, just having hope that I’ve lost this, I’ve lost my home or I’ve lost some of my family and that’s this devastating and I’m not sure if I can get through this.

[00:22:56] David Crocker: I mean, a lot of people think that whether they’re in a hurricane or not, [00:23:00] when we, when life just deals as a really hard blow, we, one of the first things we wonder is can I get through this? Yeah. I think that’s just the natural thing. We can’t imagine why. Without that other person or those people or the home or whatever it is we’ve lost.

[00:23:17] David Crocker: And so hope comes when people come alongside us and share our pain. We can’t in one sense of the word, we can’t give them our pain, but they can come alongside us. And just knowing that they are there and they Or walking with us what I would sometimes say is I’m here to help you until you can stand on your own.

[00:23:45] David Crocker: And that’s not really a statement about their fiscal strength to be able to stand but more emotional. And that’s what people need. They need someone be it, family, friends. Whoever might be willing to [00:24:00] come alongside them. And that’s where serving others can do that. And here’s another thing about how hope works hope gives us the desire to do things, to help ourselves story about that.

[00:24:16] David Crocker: In Fayetteville, North Carolina, when I was there, we were planning a big service project in a neighborhood, a part of Fayetteville that. When a place that many people wanted to go, a lot of crime, drugs, prostitution, you name it. We decided to target that particular neighborhood to do a number of home repair projects, about a couple of dozen.

[00:24:40] David Crocker: And so the people there were skeptical that anyone would come because they had been made promises by both the city and the county and broken all those promises. So they didn’t believe anybody really cared enough to. But when we went in there with teams from different churches, working on different houses by the end of the day, [00:25:00] the community was transformed.

[00:25:02] David Crocker: Not only the cause of the enhancements or improvements made on the houses. In some cases, they got a roof of the cases. They got other things repaired that they couldn’t do for themselves. But the people began to feel differently about themselves. One week later. Some people from the local community college came into that same neighborhood to teach people how to read and write.

[00:25:27] David Crocker: They had done that on a number of other occasions. But on that day, four times, as many people showed up from the community to learn how to read and write and to come up community college people said it’s because the church people were here. Last week, these people began to feel encouraged. Somebody really does care.

[00:25:52] David Crocker: Well, if somebody cares about me, then maybe I can do something to help myself. That’s what we want to see. We want to see [00:26:00] people helping themselves, right? But sometimes they need a little encouragement, a little help along the way. And that’s where serving them can actually produce that kind of a nudge or.

[00:26:14] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And when you were talking about. How you’re there until they can stand on their own. Right. And you didn’t mean the physical standing on it, but more of the emotional side of things and being able to handle things on their own. The visual that popped in my head was someone who was on crutches or needed a cane or something like that.

[00:26:33] Scott DeLuzio: Right. They needed. That support it. It’s not designed for a lifetime of using that crutch. You break your leg you’re using those crutches just until your leg is healed up enough. And then you can walk again normally. But in, in your case, it’s one of those things where they are in need of someone or something to help them get over that hurdle that they’re trying to get over.

[00:26:58] Scott DeLuzio: And just give them [00:27:00] that little bit of support to get over it. And it’s not supposed to be there for long time long or long-term usage. It’s just supposed to be there to help in the short term. Right. So, so that’s

[00:27:15] David Crocker: a big thing. Well, let me talk for just a minute, Scott, if you don’t mind about the problem of hopelessness.

[00:27:22] David Crocker: Yeah. I said earlier that we can get along with it without a lot of things at least for a period of time, the one exception being hope and there’s there’s plenty of evidence for that. So unfortunately, as you know, very well, a lot of military personnel veterans take their own lives because of their battle with hopelessness.

[00:27:44] David Crocker: I feel like I know more than the average person about that because I lost my wife 11 years ago as a result of suicide. And I can guarantee you that hopelessness was the big reason. [00:28:00] I still don’t understand all of that. And I never will. I’m still trying to come to terms with that.

[00:28:08] David Crocker: But she was severely depressed. I had no warning at all and it didn’t have anything to do with the military or anything like that. That sense of hopelessness is the same, whether you’re a veteran or a civilian or what the circumstances might be, this contributing to that. If I had known how depressed she was, you better believe I would have moved heaven and earth to try to.

[00:28:34] David Crocker: What eventually happened from happening? I had no idea. And that’s the way it happens. I’ve made referred earlier to this book, once a warrior that written by the ex Marine. He had a friend who came to see him because he was struggling with hopelessness, trying to find his purpose. And there was a powerful conversation they had because the [00:29:00] author of the book ask his friend.

[00:29:01] David Crocker: And he said, when you feel good about yourself what are you doing? What is it that helps you feel that way? And he and his friend says when I’m working with team Rubicon and I’m serving people, that’s what it is. And they got through that evening, but eventually the author’s friend took his life and he described what it was like to go through.

[00:29:24] David Crocker: Well, my heart really went out to him because I’ve been there. I know what it’s like. And I just can’t stress enough for the people who are listening to this podcast to be alert for signs of hopelessness, even when you only just suspect it make sure that your friend, your family member they know that you care and you’re going to sit with them, be with them, stay with them, whatever it takes until they get through that.

[00:29:54] David Crocker: That’s the most important thing you can do for them at the moment? I, my heartbreaks, [00:30:00] every time I hear of another veteran who has taken his life or her life, because they’ve given up so much for this country and for the world, Only to struggle to the point that they just can’t win that battle.

[00:30:15] David Crocker: And it’s just a really dark place that the average person cannot understand. Right. You, I’m just telling you, you will never understand it because I’ve struggled with that myself, but having that person to be with them and say, look, I know this is tough. I can’t, flip a switch here.

[00:30:35] David Crocker: But I can be with you and I’m going to be with you. And I would say, I can’t guarantee this, of course no statistics to back it up, but I would say that a very high percentage of those who get that kind of help in those moments of darkness will get through. Now they may need that help again, a few weeks, few months, a year, whatever down the road, who knows, but okay.[00:31:00]

[00:31:00] David Crocker: So. Anyway, I, that, I just want to throw that personal story in there because I feel like I understand at least a little bit not everything by any stretch, but serving others in those moments of hopelessness, just being with them, being physically present with them. There’s no substitute for it, right.

[00:31:22] Scott DeLuzio: There’s really not. First off. I want to just offer my condolences to you and the situation with your wife. That’s obviously a terrible situation that you had to endure. But I think the fact that you’re still here spreading this message of hope is inspirational in the sense that. There are people who have experienced similar situations or, maybe not even as serious of a situation not to really compare like this is some sort of competition or contest.

[00:31:57] Scott DeLuzio: Right. But who may feel like there’s no [00:32:00] hope. And when you hear a story like this, where you actually live through this with with your wife, Unfortunately took her own life. And here you are still saying, Hey, there’s still hope out there. There’s still something out there for me.

[00:32:18] Scott DeLuzio: There’s still something to continue giving back and serving in everything. And I think that’s very encouraging to

[00:32:25] David Crocker: hear. Thank you for saying that. And one of the things I’ve discovered again in the writing of the book and the research is that often our own personal experience of pain. Helps us to discover our purpose.

[00:32:39] David Crocker: The way it’s said sometimes is your pain is your purpose. And the way that plays out just as I’ve described it in my own case is the most painful experience in my life helps me to be way more sensitive to anyone who might be struggling either. They’ve lost someone through [00:33:00] suicide, or I remember a few years ago Who apparently was saying some things to his mother, my sister about not life, not being worth living or something of that kind.

[00:33:12] David Crocker: And, oh boy, that’s all I need to hear. I’m there. And I’m saying, let me just tell you what it does to other people. So in anytime I hear that kind of thing, well, I’ll drop whatever in order to be there because. I know what the pain is like. And so some of your listeners who have been through that dark valley, but they’ve come out on the other side, boy, they have something really valuable to share with others.

[00:33:38] David Crocker: And if not already, I would encourage them to consider that being their purpose or one of their purposes in life. We can’t have too many of those for sure. For

[00:33:51] Scott DeLuzio: sure. No, absolutely. I totally agree with that. When you’re dealing with people who might be in that hopeless [00:34:00] situation you had mentioned earlier something about, just watch out for those kind of signs that might be out there.

[00:34:06] Scott DeLuzio: R indicating that they might be feeling hopeless. What are some of the things that people can look out for to help with that?

[00:34:14] David Crocker: Well, as you might imagine, I did a lot of reading and talking to other people. I even found a friend who had tried three different times to take his life. And I said, Hey man you’re the one guy I can talk to who can help me understand this?

[00:34:27] David Crocker: And so obviously depression is the number one thing to look for. A depressed person is one who tends to be pretty quiet and into himself or herself. Not engaged physically, emotionally, psychologically with others. They withdrawn what the irony of that is one of the things that could be most helpful to them is engaging with other people.

[00:34:56] David Crocker: And. But, and if you can get them to that [00:35:00] point, then there’s a really good chance that you can help them get past the dark time. But it’s, but it’s that withdrawn thing. In the case of my wife, she was in Ohio. I was here in Tennessee at the time. And so we were separated. We did speak by phone. I could tell just by listening to her, we’ve been married for 40 years.

[00:35:22] David Crocker: So I knew her very well, of course. And she was really low. I don’t think I’d ever heard her that low. I still had no clue that what happened might happen, because if I had. I would have, I would, of course gone there. So depression, the signs of depression becoming educated about what the designs of depression are, would be the, probably the most helpful thing that I could give that withdrawn since in some cases not able to function very well.

[00:35:57] David Crocker: I remember my wife calling me on the [00:36:00] literally the night before she took her. She had gone to the grocery store to to buy some things. And she couldn’t find her shopping list. She called me hundreds of miles away to tell me she couldn’t find her shopping list. Well of course I couldn’t really help her because of the distance, but just the fact that she called, I mean, something’s not right here.

[00:36:25] David Crocker: Right. I wish I had been able to go a little past that into. It’s not, it’s so much not right that I need to get there. She was on medication. She had run out of that medication. I was bringing more with me the next day and I did, but it was too late. So those are the kinds of things that I would encourage people to look for.

[00:36:49] David Crocker: Obviously severely depressed being withdrawn, unable to function normally. Just keeping things straight and those kinds of things, and I’m sure [00:37:00] there are other sources out there and doctors and so forth who can elaborate a great deal on that.

[00:37:08] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate you sharing some of that, especially the personal stories there, because that isn’t the easiest thing to share and open up and talk about.

[00:37:20] Scott DeLuzio: But I do feel like it’s valuable information for the people who are listening, who. Might be struggling themselves or maybe know somebody who is it’s just one of those things that we have to keep in the back of our mind and be alert and aware of these situations because they can come up at any time, it’s not like, someone who is depressed is.

[00:37:48] Scott DeLuzio: They could be depressed for a real long time, but it could just pop up all over the, out of the blue and there’s something that triggered them and got them depressed or whatever. And that could just be the thing that you need [00:38:00] to be paying attention to. So that person who you never really worry about, because they’re always fine, they’re always, happy go lucky kind of person something could happen in.

[00:38:09] Scott DeLuzio: Caused them to become depressed and want to look out for those people as well. So, so this is, I think really valuable information. Before we wrap up here, I want to give you the opportunity to tell people about your book, where they can find it. And anything else that you have going on.

[00:38:26] Scott DeLuzio: I know you mentioned your non-profit as well. If you want to tell people where they can go to, to find more information about that and how they can help support it and everything, that would be great.

[00:38:36] David Crocker: Sure. I appreciate that, Scott. The book again is compassion Aries. It’s a kind of a made up word that I came up with to describe people who are compassionate toward others and they encourage others to do the same.

[00:38:49] David Crocker: Subtitle is unleash the power of serving. I was about halfway through the book before I began to understand that serving others is in fact. A [00:39:00] powerful thing. Not loud power. In most cases, I call it quiet power, but nevertheless power it can be transformative in many cases, and sometimes we’re not even aware of it until after the fact, right.

[00:39:15] David Crocker: The book really deals with all aspects of serving why we serve the benefits of service. I’ve got a couple of three, three chapters about some of the challenges of serving that people experience. And the last section is an attempt to try to help people find their sweet spot in serving and I’ve provided some helps in the back of the book dependencies that are designed.

[00:39:40] David Crocker: To do that and I give them kind of a simple, it’s not meant to be, oh, okay. Do 1, 2, 3. And you’ll be there. It’s not quite that simple, but nevertheless, giving them some suggestions that come out of my years of experience of doing that kind of thing in terms of where to access the book, it’s on Amazon.

[00:39:59] David Crocker: It’s [00:40:00] also on a website that we set up for the book and that’s simply my name, David w. Dot com there’s more information about the book. I’ve got a couple of videos and some blogs and things of that nature that that they can see there as well. And what I would say is you can of course purchase the book that way, all of the proceeds of the sale of this book go to support that nonprofit I referenced or.

[00:40:29] David Crocker: None of it comes to me even the the little bit that Mr. Bezos will let me get, keep from Amazon. We’ll go for that for that nonprofit. And I do have information in the back of the book a little bit about the nonprofit. It’s not really written to promote the nonprofit. There’s a connection, but it’s not intended to be primarily a resource for it, but.

[00:40:53] David Crocker: Way to help people get more excited about serving, giving themselves more effectively and [00:41:00] serving others. And of course, finding a place that fits them as well.

[00:41:05] Scott DeLuzio: Well, that’s excellent. And I’ll have links to the book in the show notes and in your website, I’ll have links to all of that in the show notes so that people can check it out there.

[00:41:15] Scott DeLuzio: And for the nonprofit is there a website dedicated to that or is that through your through your website as well? No,

[00:41:22] David Crocker: It’s a separate website. It’s operation in as much. Oh, no spaces.org. And they can get a lot of good information about that. It’s having been in effect for about 15 years.

[00:41:38] David Crocker: We’ve got a pretty good track record. We’ve worked Scott with churches in 25 states and four countries. So we’ve been very blessed and we’re still doing.

[00:41:49] Scott DeLuzio: Well, that’s great. And again, I’ll have a link to that as well in the show notes. So people can check that out. David, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you today.

[00:41:57] Scott DeLuzio: I really do appreciate you coming on [00:42:00] and sharing the power of serving others. So thank you for,

[00:42:03] David Crocker: thank you, Scott. It’s been a pleasure.

[00:42:05] Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. Well, thanks again. I really do appreciate it.

[00:42:08] David Crocker: Thank you.

[00:42:09] Scott DeLuzio: Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to check out more episodes or learn more about the show, you can visit our website. DriveOnPodcast.com. We’re also on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube at Drive On Podcast.

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