Episode 407 Michael Vasquez Combating The Opioid Crisis with AI Transcript

This transcript is from episode 407 with guest Michael Vasquez.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

Hey everyone, welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and today my guest is Michael Vasquez. Michael is a pioneer in the healthcare technology industry, having built the first AI integrated electronic medical records system to go public on NASDAQ. He also founded and operated one of the largest opioid treatment programs in the U.

S. after a personal experience with a family member’s addiction. And today we’ll discuss his groundbreaking work using AI to combat the opioid crisis [00:01:00] and the importance of prevention in addressing this epidemic. So before we get started, uh, welcome to the show, Michael, uh, really glad to have you here.

And I, I think I might have forgotten to mention in the intro also, uh, Air Force veteran, and thank you for that. And thank you for your service. Uh, so welcome to the show. Uh, glad to have you here.

Michael Vasquez: Thanks, Scott. Thanks for having me. Look forward to it.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, let’s just kind of jump right into this. So talking about using AI, I know a lot of people talk about AI and they, their idea of AI is maybe chat GPT or that type of thing.

And that’s kind of the, maybe the extent of what they know about it. Um, some people are, are. All in, they’re all for it. They, they love it. That’s helping them in their day to day work life. But some people are afraid of it. Like it’s going to take over the world and destroy the human [00:02:00] race. So, um, talk to us a little bit about how AI is being used to prevent, uh, addiction and, and things like that and how your work has contributed to this.

Michael Vasquez: it. Yeah, maybe I’ll step back to when we developed the first AI based electronic medical record. And the idea behind it was, how can I get a patient from admission to discharge the fastest and the healthiest? And what we found was if we could compile inside of a database, um, a large pool of experience, the experience we ended up drawing on was a master’s prepared RN out of Harvard.

So that was the initial starting point. The challenge is. Though that you don’t have master’s prepared RNs at Kearney, Nebraska. So they really didn’t have the skillset to deliver this. So we had to normalize the data. And by using AI, we could analyze all of the patient indicators, blood pressures, temperatures, how they were, what medications they were on and give the [00:03:00] nurses and the doctors indicators of things they may do that historically based on how they practice medicine at Kearney, Nebraska.

have worked. And so by doing that, we developed, so the things that you mentioned, chat GPT, they’re considered generative AI, where they, you know, you ask a query and a question and it generates a response for you about the thought, write for me a paragraph that introduces me to a company. And then obviously chat GPT does a wonderful job of that.

In our case, we use this more as a development tool that allows us to parse through lots of data And then make decisions that have a high probability of being right. And so that’s kind of the baseline of how we started out. If you can imagine, I, we started writing the first lines of code for our medical record company in 1992.

So it’s been a while, you know, it’s been, AI has been around for a long time. Um, and then in, in the current project, what we do is we found that from our experience in an opioid [00:04:00] treatment program, as you mentioned, that there were medical indicators. Hidden inside of a patient file that told us or told anybody if they could find them, that this patient’s going to progress towards opioids and abuse of that opioid.

So you can lay two patient files side by side, look at these indicators, and I could tell John Doe was going to be fine, but I could sit next to it and say John Doe 2 is going to have a problem. Because of these medical indicators that are buried inside of the patient record. So what you needed to do is develop a tool that could make decisions based on what it was seeing and then predict not just the fact that the patient’s progressing, but we really have a prevention mindset as opposed to a treatment mindset.

Meaning, if John Doe 2 was going to progress to addiction, well then You know, we haven’t helped him, they’ve gone through all the hurdles, the impact of opioid abuse, and it just has ruined their life, their finances, their career. But what we can get in front of it, the way we do that, [00:05:00] is by identifying the doctor who’s continuing to write the prescriptions and not recognizing those indicators in John Doe’s file.

So I’ll give you an idea, an overview of kind of how we’ve applied the technology. to try and get in front of the problem as opposed to respond to the problem.

Scott DeLuzio: sure. Yeah. And, and so the, the whole concept of prevention that you’re talking about, I think is something missing in the medical community in general, a lot of times, because you have, uh, doctors that will write a prescription for, for This one thing, you have these symptoms and, and here’s the medication.

It’ll take care of those symptoms, but oftentimes that medication also has other side effects. And so then you’re now dealing with the side effects of that medication. And then, okay, well, let’s give you another medication to cover up those symptoms. And then you keep going down that rabbit hole and you end up on, you know, four, five, six different [00:06:00] medications and.

Really, there was something else that you could have done to prevent the need for any of those and, and you could have taken care of that initial issue some other way. And, um, when you start talking about using technology to, uh, enhance this kind of analysis, um, because. We’re human and we make mistakes.

Not to say that computers can’t make mistakes too. They’re not perfect, but when you have a doctor or a nurse or somebody who’s working with a patient and they also have 10 other patients who all need their attention right now, it’s very easy to overlook something in a medical file. And if all of this.

Information was, uh, put into a program that can pop out some information and say, Hey, well, maybe this guy is not the best candidate for, uh, this type of medication [00:07:00] because it will lead more likely than not to, uh, some sort of addiction situation and, and you don’t want that. So that’s that right there is.

Is prevention, right? That’s, that’s kind of what you’re talking about.

Michael Vasquez: Yeah, you really described it, the heart of it, and the unique piece that we’ve found, obviously as we’ve gotten more into, we’ve analyzed about a million lives through the algorithm, is that now we can identify these indicators. They actually show up five months before whatever current tech, and obviously healthcare is very technologically based and very sophisticated, and we, by using these tools, we can actually find these indicators.

Five months before the first technology that’s currently delivered in the market can find them. And during that five month period, we found that the average patient and incurs. Almost 15, 000 in unnecessary expenses. So not only are we able to help the patient, the quality of life, but intervene so they don’t have to go through those hurdles, their health plan, we’ve saved [00:08:00] a dramatic amount of money because they don’t have to now pay for those claims.

And so what we found was that 75 percent of patients who walk in the door of an opioid treatment program, Report that they started with a prescription written by their doctor and more than likely paid for by their insurance plan. So the flag went up for me and said, maybe that’s where we start as opposed to trying to treat the patient after the kind of an after action report.

Let’s get in front of it and really deal with this and get a sense of how we can identify it first. Then how do we uniquely intervene? So you, yeah, I think you described and framed what we do fairly well.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And you know, you, you use the word after action report, and I think a lot of the listeners will be familiar with that term and what we’re, we’re describing here. But a lot of times the after action reports in. In the military, after you, you go on a mission and you, you do whatever it is that you’re doing, you come back and [00:09:00] you look at it and you assess, okay, what went right?

What went wrong? You know, what are, what are the things that we can improve on that type of thing? And you use that for future Missions so that you’re not going out and just doing the same thing over and over again and wondering why, gee, why isn’t this working? You know, but it seems like in the medical community, we have so many people getting addicted to these opioids.

Just like you’re saying, there’s, there’s a bunch of people who are in treatment who got prescribed them by their doctor. Well, it feels like the doctors need to have this. After action report to go back and take a look at, okay, why, why did this patient end up in rehab? Because it wasn’t something that we did wrong or maybe it wasn’t wrong, but maybe we did it too much.

And maybe we just weren’t, uh, giving the attention that this person needed. Um, now in, in the intro, I, I think I, I mentioned, uh, briefly, uh, that you had some personal [00:10:00] experiences that kind of motivated you to kind of start, um, um, You know, one of these, these treatment programs, uh, could you tell us a little bit about your experience and, and kind of what motivated you to get to kind of where you are now?

Michael Vasquez: Yeah, I think, um, as I was building, uh, another company after the, uh, after the AI company, uh, I was working on a very large project, very large company. That I was CEO, but I was traveling a lot. So took my eye off the ball and our oldest son and his best friend got involved with opioids. Uh, the friend though, passed away.

And so he didn’t make it. I will tell you today, 30 years, 20 years later, my son’s doing great. So he’s,

Scott DeLuzio: That’s great.

Michael Vasquez: he’s a fabulous story. But what we found was the fact that. Um, that experience showed us what opioids could do. And we felt that we needed to help. We’ve been blessed with some time. We’ve been blessed with some resources.

And so we thought we’d get involved on a small scale. Problem was, there was really nothing there that we wanted to affiliate ourselves with because the success rates, [00:11:00] the impact was nominal. And so we decided to start with a white piece of paper and just take the best evidence based programs across the world and And build something.

So we’re, I’m in Des Moines, Iowa. So not exactly beach resort destination country, but 80 percent of our patients come from Cal, came from California, Florida, and Texas because of the unique way we had found to break down the brain chemistry and deal with opioid addiction. So we could actually get you off of opioids in seven days.

Not, not to where you weren’t addicted because you still had to deal with the tragedy you’d built getting there, but at least get you off that craving where you weren’t craving opioids. That’s the biggest reason people addicted to opioids have such a poor success rate in treatment is because they never really deal with the craving.

So they get into treatment. Start to deal with the character rebuilding and have never dealt with the chemistry problem. And I’ve said this all over and over. It’s a, it’s a chemistry problem at that point that you’ve got to solve before you can [00:12:00] worry about treating. So I’ve got to build this foundation before I can worry about building a house.

And so many people skip that piece and then the house falls down and then all of a sudden the word relapse is thrown out there so often because relapse is part of recovery. It’s because they never built the foundation. And we found if they built the foundation. We could solve it.

Scott DeLuzio: Talk to us a little bit about the, um, kind of the indicators that kind of that, that your, your tools help to, uh, detect someone who may be, uh, become dependent on opioids and, uh, what, what are you looking for? What type of things are you, you, you. Pinpointing, and I’m sure there’s many, it’s not just one or two different things.

There’s probably many factors and, and maybe even conditional, like if it’s this, then, then this will be a factor. And if it’s that, then something else. But, um, what are a few of the things that, that [00:13:00] maybe kind of lead you to, uh, You know, just to describe someone as maybe being dependent, uh, or becoming dependent.

Michael Vasquez: Well, one of the things we saw, and I think it comes, you know, if people hadn’t been exposed to an opioid detox center, and I worked every day for 10 years, saw thousands of patients, saw every situation, but one thing that was a common denominator is the fact that when patients walk in the door, you can’t actually treat them until they start withdrawal and withdrawal is when the body starts to scream out saying, you’re denying me an opioid, you’re And I want an opioid.

And the way the body does that is it makes you sick. I’m going to make you nauseated until you give me an opioid. I’m going to make you anxious until you give me an opioid. I’m not going to let you sleep until you give me an opioid. So those are called withdrawal symptoms and the withdrawal symptoms are charted.

We have full record of every withdrawal symptom. You were, you individually dealt with, and obviously a hundred percent of the patients who come into an opioid [00:14:00] detox center suffer withdrawal. The problem, the unique piece was after we sold the drug treatment program. We found ourselves that 30 percent of Americans who are prescribed an opioid, and this includes 30 percent of all vets, 30 percent of people suffer a withdrawal symptom unrelated to the original diagnosis of pain.

Because you have to have a pain diagnosis, surgery, broken leg, whatever, to be prescribed an opioid. And what we found is the fact that by identifying those withdrawal symptoms and getting those, which are withdrawal symptoms is the global term. But more specifically to your question, those medical conditions that indicate you may be going through withdrawal.

Why? Because what happens is pain’s very unique. It’s subjective. And because of the body, the miracle of the body, You have an injury, the body right away starts to try to heal. And because of that healing, people become very [00:15:00] inconsistent in their prescription and taking it. So unintentionally throwing themselves into withdrawal.

And so obviously withdrawal, whether you’re in a detox center or sitting in a cubicle next to somebody you work with, the withdrawal symptoms are identical. And so then our challenge was how do we validate that that withdrawal symptom is due to the opioid or is it due to some other clinical condition?

So do you have insomnia? And the way the algorithm does it is it looks in front of the first opioid and says, Did you have an insomnia diagnosis before opioid? If the answer is yes, we just throw out the insomnia and say we can’t prove it’s part of the problem. But if The insomnia didn’t start till 30 days after the first opioids prescribed.

We pretty much can prove it’s a withdrawal symptom and that indicator gets added to the, to the fold. And then we really look at the doctors because they haven’t been educated in this, this area of medicine. They understand drug to drug interactions. They understand drug side effects, [00:16:00] but they’ve never really been exposed to the withdrawal symptoms of opioids.

So they think it’s truly insomnia. So they treat you for insomnia. Yeah. By us intervening and educating them to look for these indicators, they now can start to change what they do. Don’t change how they practice medicine, but change how they care for you.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I think that was sort of along the lines of what I was saying before, where if you go to the doctor with symptoms of one thing, they give you a medication for it. And then that medication has a side effect. They then treat that side effect and then you can see how that, that builds on itself and you end up getting medications on medications on medications just to treat the side effects of the other medications that you’re on.

Uh, when, if like what you’re saying, if they, uh, gave a little bit more care to the patient and paid a little bit more attention to the type of medications that they’re, prescribing to the patient or, [00:17:00] or, you know, whatever it is that they are doing with the patient. If they, um, paid a little more attention to that, um, it may prevent a whole lot of other issues and other medications down the road.

Um, you know, one of the things, kind of the cynic in me, uh, you know, I started thinking about it and, you know, how, Does the medical industry make their money and, you know, the, the sicker you are, the more, uh, conditions that you go, go to the doctor for, um, the more money they’re going to make. And so, you know, there has to be some sort of carrot and stick kind of incentive type thing here where they want to.

Give you the right thing so you don’t come back. Um, you know, it’s, it’s almost like the doctors should get paid when they don’t have patients coming in the door, you know, and they’ll do, they’ll do a whole lot better job at making sure you, uh, you stay healthy. Right.

Michael Vasquez: Right. And healthcare in America is really, [00:18:00] you know, dealing with, um, it’s not healthcare, it’s just delivering health care after something’s happened. So it’s not preventative, but it, you know, the doctors that we see and deal with aren’t doing this intentionally. It’s just that their specialty, whatever it is, family practice, general practitioner, internal medicine.

Really haven’t been trained in this area. So they don’t look for that. They don’t even think of it. So nobody’s doing this intentionally. The people that it’s happening to, it’s not intentional. The doctors that are continuing to prescribe an opioid to somebody. Aren’t doing it intentionally because it’s really similar to what you said.

Two factors going on, satisfaction and comfort. They want to make sure you’re comfortable so that you’re satisfied with my care. And so if you’re complaining of pain, I’m going to go ahead and prescribe it. If I’m not aware that I may be prescribing this unnecessarily, and that’s really what we do is we make them aware in certain situations, probably an opioid is not necessary.

And here are the things to do to get a patient to. We call it a brief intervention, but to [00:19:00] sit back and contemplate, do I really want to go down this path? And we throw barriers, they’re barriers, but we call it brief interventions. So you know what, to refill this prescription, I, my, the employer, your employer wants you to take a drug screen.

Well, you know what? I really don’t want to take a drug screen. Well, that’s great. It’s your decision. But if you don’t take the drug screen, your employer’s not going to let me refill the script. Well, you know what? Pain’s not so bad. I can get by with ibuprofen and physical therapy, so maybe I’ll just go to that now.

And so that’s a real unique piece we’ve developed, is not just the ability to reduce opioid prescribing inside of a health plan. We have 1, 700 Employers right now who use our software to prevent progression for their employees to do this. But the employee decides, you know, maybe this is a good time for me to quit.

So they’re in the driver’s seat. They make the decision. They’re never denied access to an opioid if they need one, but it also. These barriers that I talk about, brief interventions, get them to [00:20:00] contemplate, do I really want to take a drug screen? You know, I really don’t want to, so let’s just, today’s a good day to switch, but because I haven’t progressed to addiction, I’m not going to pursue that drug as hard as I will.

If I’m really dealing with a withdrawal symptom, and so it’s sort of understanding the stages of addiction and when people respond to a brief intervention, a discussion that makes sense, or if you’re already addicted, you’re using opioids uniquely different than most drugs, Not for euphoric effect, but using ’em to feel normal.

And you’re gonna chase that normalcy no matter what with total disregard for consequences you’ve progressed to there. What I just described doesn’t work. That’s why it’s so important for us to catch you at those early stages of ref re refill so that you haven’t progressed.

Scott DeLuzio: So for folks who might be listening and maybe going through some issues where they’re dealing with pain and the doctors are, are suggesting maybe [00:21:00] an opioid of some sort is the right course of action for them, um, but they’re concerned that maybe Addiction is in their future and they don’t want to get to that point.

Um, I know I, I always advocate for people to be their own advocate really. Uh, you know, when it comes to their healthcare, um, I want to make sure that people know what to ask for when they go to their doctors and say, I want to, I want to make sure that my chances of becoming addicted are as small as possible.

How can they suggest that maybe utilizing your, your tools to kind of help give some sort of indication, uh, of, of where they are, um, you know, on that addiction. Uh, kind of criteria that you, you laid out earlier. Um, how, how can they [00:22:00] best advocate for themselves to maybe utilize a tool like yours?

Michael Vasquez: Yeah, that’s a great question. I probably would answer it two ways. One is what if you’re a concerned family member, somebody who’s seeing it happen, what do you really do? And I always tell families and, and. Concerned people just don’t accept unreasonable thoughts or unreasonable actions because people who become addicted are starting to think unreasonably, talk unreasonably, and act unreasonably.

And if you don’t stop it right there, you really start to support it and it becomes the norm. But as a patient, the first question I would ask is, I understand there’s problems with opioids and I need one for the situation I’m in, but what do you do? What education do you have? To help me identify that I am starting to experience this.

Typically, most people call it, doctors will call it, an opioid contract. And the doctor will have you identify, here are all the risks of you continuing. And also, [00:23:00] more importantly, As long as you do these things, I’ll continue to refill your opioid script, but if you do these things, uh, try to get them refilled early, go to multiple pharmacies, go to another doctor possibly to get an opioid, I won’t refill your script.

And then this is actually a contract that’s signed by the patient and the doctor, so you’ve got a documentation that the doctor’s educated you to those, and sort of as a patient puts the doctor on the hook. It says, okay, you know, you’ve educated me. I’ve done what you’ve educated. Now there’s no reason to continue until it’s the right time to stop.

And so as a patient, I would advocate for making sure you’re educated by the provider, the prescriber, as much as possible, because so many prescribers will just say, you know, how’s the pain? Do you want an opioid? I was, I cut my finger and had three stitches in it. Phoenix one day on vacation. And the doctor asked me three times before I left the ER, do I want an opioid?

But [00:24:00] that was it never talked about, well, if I give it to you, here’s the risk. You know, I never educated me and never talked to me other than if you want it, you know, I’ll give it to you. And it was like, you know, what if I wasn’t educated enough to say no. And so that’s really where I, as an advocate for yourself and, or as a family member who may be going in with you.

And if you’re a family member and you feel your family member has progressed, then really draw the line at, and you know what unreasonable thoughts are, because the patient’s taking that opioid to try to feel normal. And so there’s going to be periods where they’re not normal, and that’s where you need to intervene.

Because if they’re feeling normal and acting normal, they’ve probably found a way to get an opioid. So that’s the, that’s the challenges. I could be talking to you, It about your issue and you seem normal. So how do I talk you into getting help? Only 18 percent of Americans who become addicted to opioids ever get help.

30%, only 30 percent of those recover. [00:25:00] The first attempt because opiates are so unique that they, they’re used to feel normal. And because of that, you act normal and it’s very difficult. So only in those times of withdrawal where you seem desperate and you want help is the time to intervene and not accept, as I said before, unreasonable thoughts or unreasonable actions.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that makes sense. And, and that’s, that’s obviously with folks who are. Already prescribed the medications. They’ve already used those. Um, you know, I, I was thinking more on the, uh, the side of the, the folks before getting to that point before they even are prescribed, uh, the medication. Is it, is it worth it for them?

You know, is it, are they at a higher risk of, uh, being, uh, Becoming addictive, uh, addicted, um, to the medications, um, you know, is there, there’s some ways that they can kind of utilize the tools that you’ve developed to be able to figure that out? Or is that something that’s, [00:26:00] um, you know, not necessarily, uh, at that stage that they can use that.

Michael Vasquez: It’s, uh, that’s a unique question. And I think it’s more of self assessment because what we have found, There is some genetics, you know, how you metabolize opioids in your system. Uh, everybody’s a little different, but the big thing we found is a common denominator, sleep activity and nutrition. So we found that if you’re not, you know, because of stress at work, you’re not getting eight hours of sleep.

You’re fairly lethargic and you’re on the Davenport and you, you know, your biggest workout is changing the channel on the remote. And your diet is not very well balanced carbs or protein. We found that, and now you get injured. You have a higher propensity to become addicted because of those, what I’ll call health issues, the health wellness of your body going on is because your body kind of recuperates every 24 hours from the day’s activities.

And if you don’t have the tools [00:27:00] for it to fully recover, then it starts to become dependent on the opioid to feel normal. And that’s really what you’re trying to be opposed to. I’m getting 30 minutes of activity. I’m eating balanced carbs and proteins. And I’m getting eight hours of sleep. We find that those people had less chance of getting addicted.

It’s kind of funny. The biggest question after people left our opioid detox center, you can’t imagine what it is, where do you buy your beds? Because coming in, none of them had ever slept well because you’ve already, you’re in the throes of addiction, so you’re stressed. You’re not, and we made sure we bought the most, at least most comfortable, if not the most expensive, beds.

Mattresses you could find that people just raved about being able to sleep eight hours. And so, and then we had dietitians on staff who made sure that you were eating a balanced meal to rebuild the body. And we had personal trainers on staff and we actually bought a high school gym and we transported you to the gym and the personal trainers made, I don’t care if you were on a cane.

Or in a wheelchair, [00:28:00] you had 30 minutes of activity every day, regardless, because you had to have that activity to metabolize and make sure your body started to rebuild. So anyway, long answer to your question, but there is a lot of indicators

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, no, that makes, yeah, that, that, that makes sense that the, the activity and sleep level, actually, it was funny when you mentioned, you know, where did you get your beds? Um, there was, uh, a hotel that my wife and I stayed at years ago and after the first night sleeping in the bed there, we woke up and we’re like, we need to get this bed, like, I don’t care if we have to break the window and steal the mattress.

We, we need this bed at home. Like, I don’t, I don’t care how we get this mattress. We need to do it. Well, it turns out that. The mattresses that this hotel used, uh, were in such high demand. They actually had a website. Uh, and, and we went through like kind of some of the brochure stuff that they had at the hotel.

Um, they actually had a website where you can order the mattress and, you know, any size king, [00:29:00] queen, you know, whatever size mattress, and we got home and we’re like, yep, we’re, we’re buying one because that it was like the best night’s sleep we, we had ever had. And, and it was just so comfortable. And, um, you know, you’re right though.

Um, Certain things like you may just be getting crappy sleep and maybe, maybe just have a crappy mattress. You might want to try to change things up a little bit. And, and, but in your case, you know, obviously you want to make things as, um, Uh, set up for success as possible. Like you, you want people to have the best possible night’s sleep and the best, uh, you know, nutrition and exercise and, and all these things geared towards getting them out the door and, and in a recovery mode, as opposed to just doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

And that is sort of the definition of insanity, isn’t it?

Michael Vasquez: And that’s what we [00:30:00] needed to break was that chain. And we saw a great response to that. So we had amazing results. And then at the same time, I’ve already mentioned, it’s a chemistry issue. That was step one. And then we started, there’s a lot of chemistry breakdown of how the body deals with opioids. What we try to do is that create a barrier to that.

And those were the first steps, sleep, activity, and nutrition.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, I, I feel very fortunate, uh, myself because, uh, years ago, probably over 20 years ago, I was prescribed, uh, opioids for, uh, a couple of surgeries that I had had, uh, for, you know, kind of recovery and the pain and, and things like that. You know, like most people back then, we didn’t really know the difference between that.

It’s like the doctor prescribed it to us and hey, like that’s just what you take. And, and that’s what helps with the pain. Um, and looking back at it now, I, I wish I never took them. Um, but I was also lucky that, uh, I, I didn’t have any, you know, Issues with dependency or [00:31:00] addiction or anything like that, where it was like, okay, the prescription ran out and that’s, that’s it.

And actually in one case, I didn’t even finish the prescription. Cause I was like, well, I’m not in that much pain. I don’t need it. And so I just didn’t take it. And. Things were good. And I didn’t look back. Like I never felt like I needed to go and get something else to kind of supplement that, or, you know, when the prescription ran out to, uh, continue, uh, you know, with, with that, not everybody.

Is that lucky? And so, you know, I see the role of technology, like the, the stuff that you are working on kind of evolving and kind of helping the doctors and maybe some of the decision makers at, you know, hospitals and things like that kind of. Deciding like, is this the right course of action? And how do we, how do we help, uh, our patients get the best results and get out the door?

And in the, [00:32:00] like you said, the shortest amount of time, but also in the, the healthiest and safest, uh, amount of time as well. Right.

Michael Vasquez: Yeah, and you were probably living a healthy lifestyle at the time. You’re probably younger and healthier. Um, actually, as we, I think we talked about earlier, Um, you know, I just wrote a book about just this entire story and it’s called The Untold Story of the Opioid Crisis Inside of American Healthcare.

Because I believe it really starts with that first prescription prescription written by the doctor, paid fine by your insurance plan, and then the non recognition Of the issues, those indicators that I’ve talked about. And so that’s really the goal is doctor by doctor. And the way, only way we found that people could afford to do this was really by getting the employer.

50 million Americans are covered by their employer’s health plan. So we decided to start there and because they had a vested interest in your health. As well as obviously saving money in the health plan. [00:33:00] So we work with the employer health plans to actually implement this to help their employees. And that’s really where we started as opposed to going to the doctor that the doctor pays for something, or go to the employee and the employee pays for something.

The benefactor in all of this financially. And performance wise is the employer. So that’s where we go to the employer and show them those benefits, those, that justification. We’ve been able to successfully do that in a lot of cases and save employers a lot of money, but more importantly, saved a lot of impact and drama and, and, and illness with their members because of what the opioid may have done for them.

And so the doctors we reach out to are actually providers. So To an employer health plan, and that’s where we start and how we reach out and start to change.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, you know, the, the employers definitely have a vested interest in, in the health and wellbeing of their employees. You know, the, the [00:34:00] more time they. Spend out of work and they’re in the hospital or they’re in, you know, uh, physical therapy and needing to take time off for appointments here and there, uh, the, their performance is going to suffer.

The, the business is going to suffer overall. You know, they’re not going to have access to those employees that they, uh, they trained and they, they had, uh, you know, money invested in them, time invested in them, just resources invested in these people who are now not available because they’re off. Add appointments and recovery maybe potentially and all these things.

So there’s, there is a lot of incentive there on the employer side. And so, you know, this, this makes a lot of sense. Uh, kind of what you’re saying, it’s, it’s kind of working with those employers to, uh, make sure that they are, you know, Getting their people back, uh, as healthy as they can be, uh, as quickly as they can get them.

Um, you know, cause things happen to people, you know, on the job, off the job, doesn’t matter. Um, things do happen [00:35:00] and, and people are going to get hurt and they’re going to get sick and they’re, things are going to happen, but you, you want to get those people back, uh, into work. Um, not in a, you know, the way I say that, I can see how people are like, oh, well, some, you know, greedy boss is just trying to, you know, Stock up his, uh, you know, his, his, uh, uh, workforce and all that kind of stuff for his own greed and stuff like that.

But at the same time, it also puts food on the table for those employees. And if they’re not working, they’re not getting paid. And well, that doesn’t put food on the table very well, does it? So, so it, it, it is beneficial for everybody, I think in that, that case. So, so that’s great. Uh, thinking of it that way.

Um, where can listeners go to find out a little bit more information about the stuff that you do, your, your work and, um, the, the type of stuff that you’re working on now to, uh, help in the opioid, uh, addiction, uh, area?

Michael Vasquez: Um, I actually have an author website that’s my name, so it’s [00:36:00] www michael Dash, and then it’s Vasquez Visa victory, A-S-Q-U-E z.com. And that’ll have not only a little background on on how, how I came to writing the book, a little background on, on me. And, and then obviously if they’re interested in getting the book, I’m hoping to have the audible version.

Out by the end of maybe next week. So we’ve been working on it for currently and it’s getting close. So maybe early July. So some people like to listen. I’ve had a lot of people approach me about, well, yeah, I can’t wait to read it. But tell me when the audible version is out. So, um, and hopefully there’s another book to follow because I think one of the goals I’ve got.

That we’ll continue to pursue is think about our discussion so far and the impact we can have on the Veterans Administration for vets and the impact because, you know, homelessness, mental illness, those are all side effects and not, not that you’re going to solve the entire problem. But you’re definitely going to bring a safety net to a lot of vets.

If we could [00:37:00] do this for the Veterans Administration, TRICARE, whoever it might be, and bring the benefits of what we’re talking about to that population.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And part of what we were talking about here, I’m, I’m thinking to myself, like if the VA got on board with what you’re doing and, Started, uh, kind of just utilizing this, this kind of data and research and the way that they, they work with their patients, uh, it may prevent any of these people from, uh, getting into an addiction scenario or, uh, you know, which then leads, like you said, to homelessness and other, uh, you know, types of issues. If, if we can get rid of that before it even starts, then, you know, You know, we’re, we’re so much better off and, and we don’t have to now deal with the homeless population, um, that. Is, is growing and it’s getting worse and worse. And, and a lot of that could be coming from, uh, the medications that people had been [00:38:00] prescribed.

And now our, their sole focus is trying to get that next fix and goes back to the career thing. The, the job, uh, conversation that we just had a second ago here, where we were talking about, we want to get people back into work while you’re not going to get into work very easily. Uh, if you’re. Addicted to drugs and you’re constantly trying to find that next fix.

Um, you’re, you’re not going to be able to do your job, uh, you know, as effectively as if you weren’t. And so, uh, you’re going to end up losing that job, becoming homeless, all that type of stuff is, is kind of the progression, I guess, with all of this. And so, um, you know, it’s, you know, It’s important, important work that you’re doing.

And, uh, you know, I encourage people to go, uh, take a look at, uh, the website and the book. I will have links to all of that in the show notes as well as for, for people to grab a copy of the book. Um, whether it’s the physical book or the, uh, the [00:39:00] audio, uh, version, um, Because by the time this episode comes out, hopefully that audio version will be out there as well.

So, so check that out. If you’re not a reader and you like to listen instead, uh, you can go check that out. Uh, before we wrap up this show, uh, real quick, I like to always add a little bit of humor to the end of episodes. Um, sometimes some of the topics that we talk about are a little heavy and a little difficult to, to deal with.

Um, but if we can make someone laugh, put a smile on someone’s face at the end of the day. I think we’ve accomplished something worthwhile here. So, um, and sometimes some of the jokes I tell are pretty, pretty corny. I don’t really care if it gets someone to laugh. I’m, I’m all for it. So, um, so here we go. A cruise ship.

Is passing by a remote island and all the passengers on the ship are looking over at the island. They see a bearded man, long beard, uh, down to his chest and he’s running around and he’s waving his arms wildly. [00:40:00] And one of the passengers, uh, yells up to the captain. He goes, Captain, uh, who’s that man over there?

And the captain goes, I have no idea, but he goes nuts every year when we pass him. Now that guy, um, yeah, he definitely has reason to be going nuts and waving his arms, but, uh, pretty sure being stuck on an island like that, he’s got very little to be addicted to at that point. So he’s probably, he’s probably in the clear with all of that. Um, but anyways, uh, Michael, thank you again for taking the time to come on the show, sharing your work and sharing some practical steps for, uh, folks who might be in a situation where they’re dealing with pain, might be getting prescribed medications, uh, and you know, how they can improve their chances of not necessarily dealing with an addiction, uh, you know, with the medications that they get.

Prescribed. So, so [00:41:00] thank you for your advice and your insights. Uh, really do appreciate you taking the time to come on and share them.

Michael Vasquez: Scott, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Scott DeLuzio: Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.