Episode 408 Jack Daly Finding Hope in Laughter Transcript

This transcript is from episode 408 with guest Jack Daly.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and today my guest is Jack Daly. Jack is a retired U. S. Naval officer with over 20 years of service and now working as an emergency management specialist within the Department of Defense. He’s also the author of Laugh Out Loud, a guide on the therapeutic, benefits of laughter.

And today we’ll explore how laughter can be a powerful tool for stress management, depression relief, and overall wellbeing, especially for veterans and military families. So, uh, before we get started, [00:01:00] welcome to the show, Jack. I’m really glad to have you here.

Jack Daly: Thank you, Scott. Good to be with you.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, let’s take it back just a little bit, talk a little bit about your military background.

Anyone who, who puts in 20 years or more with the military. I, I, I gotta take my hat off too, because that’s, it’s not an easy job, uh, you know, being in the military and, um, you know, so tell us, you know, any highlights from your career in the Navy and, uh, you know, how have the experiences that you had in the Navy, uh, maybe shaping your current work and what you’re doing now?

Jack Daly: Sure. Um, well, I enlisted in the Navy and went on active duty in April of 1983. Uh, I went in as a knee three or a seaman, uh, through boot camp. I was, uh, went through training to be a radio man or a communicator, um, especially shipboard [00:02:00] communications, uh, was the focus at the time. My first assignment, I served on the USS England CG 22 out of San Diego, California.

So that was, you know, that was a rough place to have to, uh, get assigned. I went to bootcamp there also. So, uh, it was, uh, it was a real. Uh, not a godsend, maybe, but a stroke of luck to go through boot camp and then get assigned to a ship out there.

Scott DeLuzio: I heard the weather is terrible out there.

Jack Daly: Oh, God, you know, uh, it’s, uh, it was, it was bizarre, though.

The entire time I was on board the England, uh, I remember standing a quarter deck watch one night. Uh, import and having to, uh, run home, get my long johns and my peacoat and my hat and my gloves because it was freezing cold for some strange reason and it’s just a bizarre weather pattern. Um, some of the other odd, uh, things that happen out there when it [00:03:00] rains.

People just go, you know, they go apoplectic. They don’t know what to do, especially the locals. They don’t know what the, how to drive in the rain. I’m from Philadelphia originally, so I was like, what is, what are you people doing? It’s drizzling, you know, what the heck?

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Jack Daly: And traffic out there was never, um, never kind, uh, probably is the best way to put it.

The

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Jack Daly: roadways were pretty crammed in my various assignments, whether it was a Naval Station San Diego or a Naval Station Long Beach. Traffic was always a challenge, just like it is just about anywhere these days. Um, from the England, I went, uh, to the BOOST program. I was selected to be a company commander for a prep school for the Naval Academy and ROTC units.

And it was while I was there that I got picked up for a commission myself through Officer Candidate School up in Newport, Rhode Island. Uh, went to [00:04:00] Surface Warfare Officer School. So essentially a glorified, uh, ship driver. And, uh, did that for a short period of time, but, uh, an injury, uh, that occurred early on in OCS kind of sidelined me from being a Surface Warfare Officer, uh, because I couldn’t stand for long periods of time.

Uh, so I switched over to, uh, the Intelligence, uh, track. Uh, graduated from school, Intel School in early, uh, early 2000s. 18, early 90, and got my first assignment to an F 14 fighter squadron as their squadron intelligence officer, the top headers of VF 14 out of Naval Air Station Oceana, Virginia, which is just a part of Virginia Beach, not a great area, you know, uh, had to deal with the changes of seasons, but that was always nice to see that you didn’t get to see necessarily in California, uh, so made a [00:05:00] deployment on the John F.

Kennedy aircraft carrier. With the VF 14 to the Mediterranean and Adriatic, and that was when Bosnia started to unravel. We were sitting doing donuts in the Adriatic for months, uh, providing some air cover for food drops, uh, to, uh, the Bosnians. So that was an interesting period of time. Came back, got assigned to the Office of Naval Intelligence, uh, after the Top Hatters.

Ended up in a rather bizarre Uh, Field. Or specialty, and that was merchant shipping, uh, or what commonly referred to as white shipping, uh, as well. So, at the time, we were tracking a lot of sanctions busters, uh, coming out of Iraq with oil, uh, and figs. We busted a lot of, a lot of boats with figs, uh, believe it or [00:06:00] not, because one of the sanctions, uh, you know, outlawed the, uh, Distribution or sale of figs from Iraq, which was a pretty popular item at the time, in addition to the oil.

Uh, so that led me into, uh, getting handpicked by the Director of Naval Intelligence to be assigned to, uh, a joint, uh, billet with the Canadian military. Uh, the command was, uh, Maritime Forces Pacific out of, uh, Victoria, British Columbia. Uh, up on Vancouver Island and actually the town was called Esquimalt, uh, E S Q U I M A L T.

It sits right next to Victoria, so that’s the common reference point. And uh, it was up there that, uh, my assignment was to keep an eye on Russian and Chinese merchant [00:07:00] vessels that were, um, essentially playing games. Uh, Games of Chicken, in a couple of instances, with our ballistic missile submarines out of Bangor, Washington, and our carrier battle groups out of Everett and Bremerton.

So, I spent about six months studying the problem, gathering all the intelligence I could, came back to D. C., briefed it. Got tasked with a mission, that mission was to take pictures of these ships from a Canadian helicopter or a boat, uh, and we went up one day in a Canadian helicopter, it was Friday, April 4th, 1997.

And, uh, conducted our first, uh, reconnaissance mission against one of these ships called the Kapitan Man. What a K. And, hours after the flight, uh, my Chief Petty Officer from the U. S. Navy that I hand picked, [00:08:00] because he was the best imagery analyst in the entire Navy at the time, uh, He walked into my office and asked me if I was having any problems with my eyes.

And I said, yeah, I said, I must’ve gotten something in them, maybe wind shear, cause I was hanging out of the helicopter, sitting on the deck. Uh, taking these pictures with this brand new Kodak 30, 000 digital camera. Um, it had some quirks to it, so it froze up because I was taking the pictures too fast for the hard drive to keep up with, which caused me to pause and put the camera down my lap.

Uh, and I saw a bright white flash, uh, coming from the ship, uh, while I had the camera down. And, I just thought it was a solar glint because it was a beautiful sunny day, uh, clear unlimited visibility for miles, and, uh, mistook it as possibly a reflection off some of the glass or a piece of bare metal on the bridge of the Capitan Man.[00:09:00]

And, uh, Scott, uh, said, well, do you have a headache? And I said, yeah, it feels like somebody buried a pickaxe in the back of my head. Uh, and he pulled out a piece of paper from behind his back and they put it down on my desk in front of me. And he said, you caught a laser in this photo.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, wow.

Jack Daly: And I, I grilled him to the nth degree.

What do you know about lasers? What do you know about how it would affect the camera? Tell me everything, you know. Well, he convinced me he was a subject matter expert. There was no doubt about it. Um, I was preparing to go to Australia for 10 days with my Canadian office mate, because we were going to a conference down in Australia on merchant shipping.

And Scott insisted that I go see a doctor immediately.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Jack Daly: And the first thing we did was we warned everybody else that was on the helicopter that day [00:10:00] to be cognizant that we may have been exposed to some type of a lasers during the flight. So, uh, the one thing I remember vividly is the operations officer for the squadron Telling me that the pilot named Pat Barnes, and he said, Jack, if Pat’s got everything wrong, he’s not going to go to a doctor, even if he’s wearing a tow tag. And that’s typical of aviators. They don’t want to be downed, quote unquote downed, for any period of time because it affects proficiencies, you can well imagine.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Jack Daly: So I told Scott, I said, look, if it’s still bugging me over the weekend, you know, I’ll try and find somebody Monday morning. And long story short, uh, I was driving home in the dark from the base and The first set of headlights that came from an opposite direction blinded me and I ended up driving up on the sidewalk.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, wow.

Jack Daly: okay, [00:11:00] maybe Scott’s right.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Jack Daly: So, fortunately, Victoria General Hospital was on my route back home that evening and I stopped there and, uh, the doctor That examined my eyes, said, uh, you’ve got something going on with your right eye. I’ve never seen anything like it before. He said, I’ve seen, I see debris abrasions all the time and arc welding burns from the guys at the shipyard.

He said, I don’t know what to tell you. And the first sign that I realized something was wrong was, uh, when he did the visual acuity test where you stand 10, 12 feet back, read the first, whatever line you can read. My vision went from 2010 to 2070.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, wow.

Jack Daly: I, I knew that something was definitely wrong, um, because I, I was really proud of the fact that I had 2010 vision in both eyes.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Jack Daly: Before that day. [00:12:00] Um, so that was a real surprise and it got my attention. So the long and short of it turned out to be that, uh, after we reported it Sunday after another, uh, exam on Saturday morning, led me, you know, led me to be convinced that there was something wrong with my eye and it wasn’t until Saturday night when the pilot called me, uh, Pat Barnes, and he asked me how I was doing.

Pat, I’m okay. I don’t know what it is. Uh, it could have been a piece of debris. Could have been wind shear. I really don’t know. And he said, Jack, my eye’s all screwed up. Tell me about it. He said, well, uh, I woke up this morning and felt like somebody dumped a bucket of sand in my face. It felt like somebody jabbed me in the eye.

Uh, he said I walked in their bathroom and he had a big blob of blood in the right corner of his, uh, [00:13:00] his right eye. And I had the same exact experience when I woke up Saturday morning. Uh, I went into, uh, the bathroom, looked in the mirror, had a big blob of blood in the bottom half of my right eye where the doctor said, there’s something there, but I don’t know what it is.

So after Pat confirmed his injury. I was convinced that, okay, we got lit up. And what that turned out, Scott, uh, bottom line was that was an act of war.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. As you were talking throughout this whole thing, I’m, I’m thinking to myself, that’s, that is an attack. I mean, it’s not a bullet, a missile or, uh, you know, an IED or anything like that, but it’s still an attack on, on you. It’s preventing you from being able to do your, And obviously the pilot, everybody else who might’ve been affected by that.

Um, it, you know, lasers, they put warnings on those things for a reason, right? They’re, they’re not [00:14:00] like just to screw around and point them at people’s eyes and stuff like, yeah, you might have low level lasers that you can mess with your cat or your dog or something that, you know, like have them chase a laser on the floor, but those are obviously much stronger lasers, the ones that you’re talking about and, um, you know, that’s, um, That’s something that you got to take seriously.

And so some, anyone who has a laser like that, there’s going to be a warning on it. So they knew what they were doing when they started pointing that laser up at you. Right. And, and you hear about it from time to time, um, where people will just be messing around with lasers down on the ground here. In America, not anything malicious.

They’re not trying to bring planes down or anything like that, but they do, they shine it up at airplanes flying overhead and, um, it could blind a pilot who’s flying that plane and, and if it blinds the pilot and the co pilot, well, that plane’s screwed, you know, like it’s not a joke. You don’t, [00:15:00] you don’t mess around like that.

Jack Daly: you’re absolutely right. Um, there have been what they refer to, um, dazzling incidents with commercial pilots, uh, as well as there have been a couple of incidents in the past, I want to say three years, where police helicopters have been dazzled, have have had point, uh, laser pointers. Directed at them, once again, not necessarily maliciously, but just stupidity, uh, on the part of the, the culprit, and, uh, it’s now a federal law that if you shine a laser, you’re going to jail, you’re, you’re going to get, uh, sentenced in one way, shape, or another, uh, so I’d like to think that what happened to us was some of the impetus behind getting that law passed, But, I’ve read numerous stories, uh, that just scared the dickens out of me.

There was a baseball player, a pro baseball player, he was at the plate. Facing, you know, facing 95 [00:16:00] mile an hour fastballs and somebody out in the center field in the stands decided Oh, no, I’m gonna point a laser at the batter

Scott DeLuzio: Oh,

Jack Daly: And it caused him some some problems. Luckily, they were able to snag the guy with the laser But in that kind of a scenario that could be deadly if he 95 mile an hour pitch to the temple He’s toast You’re

Scott DeLuzio: that’s what I was thinking too, is like, if you’re blind, actually, kind of along the lines of this, not 95 miles an hour speed, but, um, but if you take a ball off your face, like, That could cause some serious damage, but my, my son, uh, he was playing baseball and he had a late night practice. It was, it was like one of the last practices that the, the city had, uh, on this field and they had, uh, the, the field was lit up.

Uh, so they had big lights on the field. So you, you can see at night [00:17:00] and obviously, well, the, the lights were on a timer and It must’ve gotten screwed up somehow, uh, because we’re in Arizona and we don’t do daylight savings, but the timer must have been, had something to do with daylight savings because it was supposed to go off automatically at nine o’clock at night, at eight o’clock, like the practice had, Kind of just gotten started.

It was an hour and a half practice or something to start at 7 30, but at eight o’clock, the lights just shut off and they were in the middle of a batting practice where, uh, oh, sorry, pitching practice where the pitcher was throwing the ball to the catcher who had all of the equipment on all the proper equipment.

But one of the coaches was just standing there in the batter’s box and Acting as a batter because you know, that kind of messes with you when, when you’re just throwing a ball to a catcher, that’s one thing. But then when there’s a [00:18:00] batter there, it adds a whole nother dynamic. So the coach was just standing there acting as the batter and the lights go off.

Mid pitch and you hear the coach go, oh shit, . And he turns around because he doesn’t know where the ball is. It can completely blacked out as soon as the, the, the pitch, uh, was being thrown. And it, it was like you couldn’t have timed that better or worse, I guess, in this case. But, um, but yeah, absolutely going blind like that.

Um, you know, on, on any, uh. You know, high risk type of thing, getting a ball thrown at you at 95 miles an hour or flying a plane or a helicopter, or, you know, the job that you were doing. I mean, that, that’s super dangerous. Um, and, and so, you know, I feel like that, I mean, that. Had to be kind of like, uh, you know, one of the worst experiences to go through, um, to, to add a little [00:19:00] humor, I guess, to, to the situation you were talking about kind of reading the, the eye chart and, and everything like, like, I, I’m sure many people are familiar with, um, whenever they tell me to read the, the lowest line possible, I always, I, I, you know, I cover an eye and I look at it and I go made in China.

And they look at me like, how the hell did you read that? And I just start laughing. I’m like, I don’t know what it says on the bottom. Like,

Jack Daly: That’s good. I’m gonna have to remember that one. I might use that in the future. Yeah, my vision, uh, my vision definitely has been affected as a result. I mean, we were, we were all medevaced a couple of days later down to San Antonio, Texas. Uh, from Victoria to be examined by the U. S. Army Medical Research Detachment, uh, laser bio [00:20:00] effects, uh, team.

And, uh, it turned out, uh, That I learned months later when I was talking to a similar team over in Great Britain, that the folks in Texas were the best in the world. They were world renowned. So, there was a doctor by the name of David Scales. He was a retinologist. He was in the Air Force at the time, a lieutenant colonel.

He was the one that saw. Uh, from various retinal scans that we underwent that I had essentially holes in my retinas. in both eyes and I could actually see them. I can see them now. Um, it looks like a connect the dots pattern.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, wow.

Jack Daly: So the, between the doctors and the scientists down there in San Antonio, they determined that we had been exposed to what’s called a repetitively pulsed [00:21:00] laser.

So in essence, it’s a laser that acts like a machine gun. So it’s firing out thousands of pulses a minute, uh, or a second. Actually, and that’s why I have this connected dots pattern. Some dots are bigger. Some dots are smaller. Uh, the crazy thing was that I had a, uh, a spot in my right eye that I call it an occlusion.

It was a little cloud. It would cover the text on any document that I was reading, whether it’s on a computer screen or a hard copy. And I’d have to keep going back and re reading it because I think I’m, is that the right word that I thought, thought I saw? And then, um, Pat’s injuries, uh, the pilot grounded him permanently.

That was it. His flying career ended then and there. Uh, you know, two weeks later, uh, and he was just about to [00:22:00] retire in a couple of months. Thank you so much. And he had a very lucrative civilian flying job lined up, uh, flying, you know, commercial helicopters. Uh, so that came to a screeching halt. So it definitely impacted him, uh, career wise.

My career, um, there was a major cover up over the incident. Uh, it was one of those things that never happened in the intelligence world, uh, until a reporter by the name of Bill Gertz from the Washington Times. Broke the story on the front page of the Washington Times and by the end of the day that particular day It was April May.

It was like May 14th or 15th of 97 I was all over in the news all over the world and the story was getting that kind of coverage which was extremely Discerning to [00:23:00] me. Uh, I, I, I didn’t know what to do. You know, the, the, the cat was out of the bag, thanks to Bill Gertz. Uh, and my career I knew was going to probably be on the downside.

Uh, or downslope.

Scott DeLuzio: Right,

Jack Daly: darn if it didn’t. I got passed over twice for, uh, promotion from lieutenant to lieutenant commander until a, uh, senator by the name of Jesse Helms stepped in and got involved. Uh, he sent a scathing letter to the then Secretary of Defense, uh, William Cohen. Uh, and the next thing I knew I was getting a special review for promotion.

Got promoted to Lieutenant Commander, but it was pretty much a written The writing was on the wall and my career was over regardless. I wasn’t going any further. So a lot of press coverage I was in the press Constantly for six years straight. [00:24:00] Um, I was portrayed on an episode of JAG As sitting in my garage, lazing myself in the eyes, prying my eyes open with paperclips.

Um, I mean, crazy stuff. Uh, on the funnier side, uh, I appeared on the second season premiere of The Osborne, when Ozzie and Sharon Osborne had their TV show. Um, I had gone to the White House Correspondents Dinner in D. C. one year and as I was walking down this hallway, which was the hospitality hallway, it was just parties, booze flowing, food everywhere, I walked by one room, Ozzy standing up on a table dancing, um, and I was walking behind Dr.

Ruth Westheimer. And I said hello to somebody coming down the opposite direction and she turned around and she saw me in my dinner dress uniform [00:25:00] and, uh, she asked me You know, what was I doing there? And I, I was pretty lit. I had gone to a martini party at a reporter’s house before I got there. Uh, and I said, Dr.

Ruth, I’m just another lonely sailor. And she reaches into her night bag and she pulls out her room card key and she goes, Oh, you don’t have to be lonely tonight.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh my God.

Jack Daly: At the same exact moment as she’s, you know, hitting me, hitting up on me, I guess, I feel a tug on my sleeve and I turn around and I’m nose to nose with Sharon Osbourne and, uh, she says, Oh, I, I, I love your outfit. Now there’s a big bright light behind her and I’m blind and I can’t see, I can barely, No. Um.

And she says, what does the outfit all mean? And [00:26:00] being in the inebriated state I was in, I said, Oh, it doesn’t mean a damn thing. Well, six, nine months later, they show the season premiere. I’m out to dinner with my wife and kids. My kids were home from college. And, uh, my phone starts ringing off the hook.

Jack, Jack, you were on the Osborne Show, holy hell, do you know what you said? And I said, no, I don’t even remember. Oh, she asked you about your uniform and you said it doesn’t mean a damn thing. Dude, your goose is cooked. Oh man, I just gave the Navy exactly what they wanted to finally get rid of me. And the first thing I did the next morning at work was I called our public affairs officer and I can’t remember his name at the time, but I said, Hey Joe, how much trouble am I in?

He said, you are one lucky SOB. That is the one night out of the [00:27:00] 365 days in a year that you get away with saying anything you want. So nobody’s, nobody’s going to touch it. And nobody did. Nobody came after me. But, uh,

Scott DeLuzio: That’s crazy.

Jack Daly: My kids were in high school. Uh, well, actually one of them was still, two of them were still in high school.

Their buddies just thought I was the coolest dude in the world, you know, cause I was on the Osborne show.

Scott DeLuzio: I get at least got you some, some points in that, that, uh, department. Right. You know? Um,

Jack Daly: go ahead.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So I kind of want to, I want to fast forward a little bit here because, um, I want to get to kind of. The laugh out loud and getting to that part of things. Um, where did that come in? Like, I gotta imagine going through all of this, kind of these negative experiences.

Um, you hear a lot of times people go through these negative experiences. They, they end up in a kind of. Down, depressed state or [00:28:00] whatever. And laughter kind of brings them back out of that. It was that something that happened with you with all of this experience or, or were you, uh, you know, kind of always pretty, uh, into the, the laughter and humor and that type of thing.

Jack Daly: Yeah. I learned early on, uh, growing up, um, through some harsh experiences that, uh, I was far happier when I was laughing than I was, you know, feeling bad, sorry for myself. Um,

.

catalyst, um, I guess was, I had somebody looking over my shoulder 24 7, 365, uh, or at least it, it felt that way. I was getting visits, uh, unannounced visits from security personnel while I was still in uniform.

And, uh, in my last command, which was, um, called DHS, the original Defense Human Intelligence Service, DHS for short, until 9 11 occurred, um, [00:29:00] guy called me, said, Hey, I’m with the Defense Security Service. I need to come talk to you. Um, and I said, well, I’ll tell you what, I have no problem talking to you, but let me contact my lawyer first and let me notify.

The command that, uh, you’re coming to interview me because they want to be present. Well, the next morning, a guy shows up at my desk, unannounced, uncoordinated, no lawyer present, no, uh, senior member of the command present. And I said, I’m packing. I said, I told you yesterday, I’m not talking to you. So you’re wasting your time.

You know, get going. And as he waddled away, literally, I started cracking up, uh, at the way he was walking. And my, uh, the guy that sat at the desk next to me goes, Jack, how are you doing, man? What, Kevin? How do I do what? He goes, how do you keep a sense of humor with all this nonsense going [00:30:00] on?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Jack Daly: And I said, Kevin, if I don’t laugh, I’m going to cry and that’s going to make my eyes hurt worse than they already do.

Uh, so that was kind of the impetus, uh, behind my, my mindset and that kind of an attitude. But what really, uh, was the, um,

I guess to use the term again, the impetus behind Laugh Out Loud was, I was driving to work one day after I had long been retired and, uh, on Fox News radio, I was listening to the live TV show and they reported on statistics from 2019 that there had been 498 active duty service member suicides in 2019.

Of that, there have been 198 family members, spouses, and dependent children that have committed suicide. And I thought, oh my god, you know, [00:31:00] why? What’s going on? And then the real kicker was, they said the number of veteran suicides in 2019. And there were almost 6, 500. Veteran suicide. And I was shocked. I couldn’t, what the heck is going on?

All right. You know, there was, in World War II, it was shell shock, quote unquote. Uh, and after the first Iraq war and, and subsequent, uh, Iraq and Afghanistan, PTSD became, uh, the predominant, uh, culprit or demon for people. Uh, and Since 1921, since 9 11, 20 years following 9 11, there have been a total of over 30, 000 veteran suicides, uh, compared to the 7, 000 service members that were actually killed in combat.

So, four times. And, and I, I, [00:32:00] I was so startled by that. My wife heard the same Fox News report later that evening and we were sitting in and I said I have to do something I I can’t cure whatever it is necessarily, but I have to be able to do something to try and help one person I had a really good friend one of my closest friends in the world and He did a couple of tours in Iraq and I knew that he had some hellacious demons And I thought if I could only help him Then, you know, I, I’ve done my job, uh, I’ve done my humanitarian duty and I thought, okay, how do I do this? And it popped into my cabasa, I’ll write a book. Uh, and I had been following, um, a guy by the name of Hal Elrod. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him. He wrote a book called the Miracle Morning and in the Miracle Morning, he has a [00:33:00] six step process called savers. And I was following that practice every morning.

I thought. I’ll take the word laugh and I’ll do a similar thing. I’ll five steps. So l for laugh out loud, find something to laugh about. Take that time to have a good chuckle or a snicker or a go fall. Um, a act, do something. Get your body moving, get your blood flowing. Um, you unplug, put the devices down.

Put the iPhone down, put the iPad down, put the Android device down, lift your head up so you don’t end up in that position the rest of your life with your head down, uh, and do something. Go for a walk, look at the clouds, you know, whistle, whatever it might be. And then G, grow, find something to learn. Teach yourself a new skill.

That book you’ve always wanted to read on, um, Brain Surgery, [00:34:00] go ahead and read it, um, and then H for humor. Humor somebody else, make somebody else laugh, because ultimately, that is the greatest gift you can give to a person, is a gift of laughter. So make somebody laugh, by whatever means. I know that I’ve humored myself By, uh, torturing my wife, uh, with plastic arachnids, uh, and other creepy crawlers, uh, on her pillow in the refrigerator, uh, you know, in the bathroom on top of the toilet, to be able to make somebody else laugh, uh, is, is indeed a gift.

Um, so I thought if these vets, and then I expanded it, you know, after COVID and the psychological impact that COVID has had. On everybody around the world, especially on our young [00:35:00] teenagers. I mean, teenage suicides are ridiculous right now. The number of teens committing suicide is beyond the pale. It’s like nothing we’ve ever seen before.

What’s going on? Is it social media? Uh, in some cases, yes, my youngest, uh, went through some hellacious times, uh, due to social media. Uh, so that’s, that was the impetus.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and I like the, the framework that you built out, you know, kind of each letter in LAFF has its own unique meaning here for, uh, the, this framework, but, um, It’s actually kind of funny because you started kind of coming up with this around the same time that I started this podcast. I started it in June of 2019 and, um, it really, for the same reason, I realized just [00:36:00] how many people were. We’re struggling in the military community, whether they’re currently serving or they’re veterans. I kind of lump everybody into the military community, uh, you know, in, in that regard. Um, but so many people are struggling and how do we help these people? How do we, how do we make it so that. You know, life is worth living to these people and they’re not choosing that permanent solution to often, very oftentimes, very temporary problems.

And um, you know, taking that, that way out that, um, know, I personally have lost several people that I served with, uh, through that. And, and it’s like, I don’t want to get another phone call telling me that, you know, a buddy that I served with. Kill themselves like that. That’s awful. And, um, you know, so I, I took this approach.

You took the approach right in, right in your book. [00:37:00] And, um, laughter, I think I, they say it and it, maybe it’s a cliche kind of thing, but laughter is one of the best medicines it really is. I mean, uh, you know, It gets you, it gets you, it gets me anyways, it gets me out of that, that funk that I might be in, like, you know, I’m, I’m just down, and I’m feeling, you know, we’ve all had rough days, and we’ve all had days that we just kind of, ugh, you know, I gotta go do this thing, and it’s, it’s awful, and I, you’re feeling down, and, and whatever, you don’t even want to get out of bed sometimes, and, and it’s like, If you could just start laughing, I mean, okay, well, the rest of that’s not that big a deal, you know, and, and so I get that.

So have you done any kind of research or, or heard any, uh, you know, information about maybe some of the, More scientific benefits. I mean, I can give anecdotal evidence, but I’m sure there’s some science that backs what you’re doing too, right?

Jack Daly: [00:38:00] There is, um. Of the 825, 000, I’m sure it’s more than that now, uh, self help slash improvement books that were written up until 2022, only 5 percent of those were ever actually scientifically tested to see if they helped.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, wow.

Jack Daly: And laughter was one that repeatedly comes out on top that it works because, uh, studies have been done by a variety of, uh, the Mayo Clinic has done a study.

There was a study in one of the medical journals that was commissioned a couple, several years ago and it showed that laughter had positive neuroendocrine effects on the nervous system, that it has beneficial attributes. To people that have, uh, cancer, [00:39:00] diabetes, uh, and some other maladies that, uh, laughter as part of a daily routine, which Laugh Out Loud is about doing it on a daily, as a daily practice, helped people battle depression.

The diseases they were battling, uh, it boosts your immune system. Uh, it puts oxygen in your lungs to have a good laugh because you’re opening up, uh, and taking in a lot of oxygen. Uh, it gets your blood flowing. Uh, uh, sometimes you laugh until you cry, uh, and, uh, you know, so it keeps the eyes, uh, you know, lubricated, uh, if, if something is that funny or it’s so bad that you want to cry out there. Like some of my dad jokes, you know, they’re they’re really bad

Scott DeLuzio: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Jack Daly: It’s still cry,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and, or, or, uh, maybe it doesn’t make, make them cry with the [00:40:00] laughter, but their, their eyes roll at least when they, uh, when they hear it, right. So practically speaking, okay. Like we, we, I think most people can wrap their heads around how laughing is a good thing. And. And humor and comedy and all that is a good thing.

Um, but getting that discipline to incorporate the steps that you mentioned in, in your book, uh, into your daily life, any, any. Practical tips on how to kind of start incorporating that. Like what, what was your process when you, you start, uh, start working on that?

Jack Daly: you know, it was a follow on to what I was already doing with the savers out of Hal Elrod’s book So it just it seemed like a logical progression And the way I’ve laid it out in the book is it doesn’t have to be done one after the other I [00:41:00] don’t always get the time to follow all five But I make sure that I hit them throughout the day.

Uh, and if I can only accomplish one, the one I go for is to make somebody else laugh. Um, because, you know, that, that’s, that’s mutually beneficial. It’s, it’s not hard and fast that you have to do all of these, that you have to do them all for 12, 15, 10 minutes at a time. If you only have time to do, you know, a minute at a time.

So be it. That’s great. But, uh, consistency and routine, uh, is probably the most beneficial so that you’re doing these steps, uh, at least once a day. And if you have to break them up over the entire eight hour work day or 12 hour a day or whatever your length of your day is, so be it.

Scott DeLuzio: Now, one of the things that I know about comedy and, and humor [00:42:00] in general is, uh, the spontaneity is usually what, uh, or, or the unexpected, uh, type thing is usually what gets people to, to really like the, those deep laughs. Like when, when you start telling a joke and it’s just. It takes a turn, like that unexpected turn, and You’re like, where is this going?

And then all of a sudden you end up in this, this other place that your mind wasn’t even thinking of. That for me, anyways, I found, I laughed the hardest when, when you go in that direction. Right. So when you talk about like setting up a routine of doing this type of thing and getting laughter into your life, um, That to me sounds like it might be difficult to get those good, you know, hearty laughs, uh, in when it’s, when it’s kind of unexpected, but could you do things like, uh, you know, Work with a [00:43:00] spouse or a friend or something like that and just like, Hey, send me a random, uh, you know, joke or something like that every once in a while, you know, could, is that a way that, that you can, uh, you know, kind of incorporate that into the daily routine?

Or, or how do you suggest, uh, you know, incorporate it into the routine that way?

Jack Daly: Well, uh, in, uh, the book, I provide several links to various, um, um, Old comedy sessions with folks like, uh, Robin Williams, God rest his soul, um, you know, um, Foster Brooks, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him, he played a drunk on the Dean Martin roasts,

Scott DeLuzio: Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Jack Daly: Abbott and Costello, who’s, you know, who’s on first, um, but there are some, there’s some great stuff on Facebook.

Uh, my wife and I go through Facebook, uh, fairly religiously. Uh, when I get home from work, uh, she looks at it during the day. [00:44:00] And she’ll spot something that just breaks her up and she’ll send it to him. One particular episode that we saw on Facebook, a little girl named Rose, little, little tiny thing, in her car seat, in the back seat.

And you can see her, her dad’s filming her, he knows what’s going on. She’s struggling to get out of that car seat while he’s driving. And he says, uh, Rose, do you need help? No, you drive the car. Take care of yourself. You drive. I mean, she’s adamant and he starts cracking up, but he doesn’t want to laugh, you know, and She says he looks at her.

He goes you sure you don’t need no you drive You drive the car you take care of yourself, and she’s she’s dead serious about it He can’t hold on any longer. He loses it. We were sitting here in tears. We were laughing so hard. So, Facebook is a good source. Um, you can find these other old, uh, skits [00:45:00] and comedy routines like the Dean Martin roasts on YouTube.

Uh, that’s another great source for this stuff. Uh, you, you made me chuckle because, uh, I had a brown bag lunch with one of the senior, uh, personnel in the, uh, within, The Department of Defense, the acting undersecretary for policy, who I work for, and she asked for pain points or recommendations. Well, I work in an underground facility, uh, up here in the Pennsylvania area.

It’s the underground Pentagon. And she just took over the job recently. And I said, you know, uh, ma’am. Uh, I know a great place if you’re thinking about an off site one of these days, uh, the food is great. There’s an award winning chef up here and we have four star accommodations and I was lying through my teeth, but I, I, the, the, the [00:46:00] catch was, uh, she said, you know, award winning chef.

And I said, yes, ma’am, uh, in second grade, he got, he got a gold star for spelling bee. So she damn near choked on her lunch. And the four star accommodation is, okay, well, we have four star generals that can sleep here. So that was the four star accommodation, you know. Because I was told by my more immediate boss a couple of weeks ago, you guys got to market that place better. Okay. Well, there’s my sales pitch. You know, luckily she didn’t choke to death on her lunch.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, right. Otherwise she would never be able to tell anyone about it, you know?

Jack Daly: Yeah, exactly. Right. So, you know, I take opportunities like that, um, throughout the day. Not that I’m a clown or a jokester. Uh, I like to play a prank once in a while. Um, and in the job Come in now and was in a [00:47:00] similar position 18 years ago, we would get into some very, very tense situations. Uh, hurricane Katrina was one that, uh, stands out in my mind.

Uh, the London bombing attacks, uh, back in um, 2005, uh, were uh, was an extremely stressful, uh, moment or a couple of days for us because we were supposed to be next, uh, in the United States following nose attacks. And, um, my boss’ compliment said, how, how do you keep a sense of humor at times like this? I, I said, you have to.

I said, you have to, I have to do something to break the tension. Otherwise, all these people that are working with me are going to be stressed out. We can’t have that. We have to be able to clear, think clearly. So, I always try to inject humor in situations where there’s a lot of tension.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I know like in the [00:48:00] military too. So, um, we very often, we would use dark humor, you know, uh, we’re dealing with death and, and things like that. Um, you know, potentially deadly situations, uh, all the time. And, um, you know, so we would. We would get pretty dark with our humor, but we laughed about it.

Like we, we were able to laugh and understand that, uh, you know, we’re, we’re just trying to break that tension. Um, there’s one time, uh, when I was deployed to Afghanistan, uh, very early in the deployment, um, I got out of the vehicle, uh, we’re, we’re on a patrol, I got out of the vehicle and took another soldier with me.

And, uh, we were walking up ahead of the vehicles and. He’s a younger guy, private, and he, he looked at me and he goes, uh, Sergeant, um, are we clearing for bombs now? Because we didn’t want the trucks going ahead and, [00:49:00] and so yeah, we’re, we’re, that’s exactly what we’re doing. And I was like, and I knew he knew this, we had trained for this, like, but, but, but I think it had just, this is the first time he actually did it in a combat, uh, area.

Um, not in a training scenario or anything like that. And so I think he was just kind of like, is this when I start doing the stuff that we trained, you know, like trying to get his head right. And. and I’m like, yeah, but you know, watch your step. And he stops and he freezes and I’m, I’m cracking up because I’m, I’m just trying to break the tension.

You know, like you’re about to step on something. There was nothing there. It was, it was just, you know, the pavement. But, um, but he looked at me like, don’t you freaking do that again?

Jack Daly: You know, I, I, I, I get the, the intention on your part that he was so in his head that he was probably going to miss something obvious. And yeah, I get it.

Scott DeLuzio: So I, I, I need, I felt like I, at that point I needed to break that tension, [00:50:00] um, because I, I knew what we were doing and, and I had already kind I guess made peace with what we were about, what we were doing. Like we were the, the human bomb detectors, I guess. Um, you know, but, uh, you know, he was still kind of wrapping his head around it.

So I was like, all right, well, screw this. I gotta, I gotta break that tension. So, um, yeah. So anyways, I mean, I can definitely see like in serious scenarios like that where you need to kind of ease attention so everyone can kind of get their heads right and, and get back into the job. But, um, also when you’re dealing with things like depression and PTSD, where, where people are, uh, they’re, again, they’re in their head with, The issues that they’re, they’re going with.

And very often the, the, the toughest, uh, battle that you’re going to face is the one between your ears. And, um, and if we can help maybe, I [00:51:00] don’t want to say break the tension, but something like what, what I was just describing where you break that, that cycle And, uh, you know, get, get someone out of their head that might be, uh, something that just helps them to kind of come back out of that.

Uh, even if it’s just temporarily, um, but to have that little glimmer of hope for, uh, you know, a brighter future and, and, and seeing a path. To, uh, you know, uh, brighter days. Right. Is that, is that kind of the goal here? Is that what we’re looking at?

Jack Daly: Yeah. One of the things that I mentioned specifically, Scott, is that this, I didn’t write this to be a, uh, the, the cure, but if it can act as a coping mechanism for folks that are dealing with the demons of PTSD and depression, uh, then that’s, that’s pretty What I could [00:52:00] hope for, uh, in any scenario for anybody that’s struggling, whether it’s emotionally or mentally or even physically, uh, I mean, it’s, it’s laughter that’s kept my head above water, uh, cause from the day we released in April of 97, I hadn’t, I haven’t had a pain free moment.

In the last 27 plus years, uh, the pain has gotten worse over the years, which nobody can seem to explain. Uh, there’s no relief, uh, for it. Might be if I get to smoke a doobie one of these days after I’m no longer carrying a security clearance. But I don’t know about that for sure. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

Scott DeLuzio: You can report back to the, uh, on that, uh, in the future, but I, I won’t, um, I won’t get you in trouble by, uh, having you comment on that any further at this point.

Jack Daly: Yeah, I don’t even, you know, the day after I retire, [00:53:00] where I can find a dime bag. I don’t know. I’m not around here.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, right. Well, you know, I, I feel like. Just thinking about laughter and the, like what it does for somebody, like, just visualizing what could be happening. Like, if you got somebody who’s at the end of their rope and they’re about to jump off a bridge, uh, I don’t, I visually, I can’t imagine anybody taking that leap while they’re laughing.

At the same time, you know what I mean? Um, if, if you can get someone to laugh in, in a situation like that, like maybe there’s that hope, there’s that hope that there’s something better, something brighter, some, some break that, hey, maybe this isn’t the right decision. This isn’t the right solution to this problem.

Maybe there’s something better. [00:54:00] I, I’ve got it all wrong. Maybe, maybe I, I might have some hope left for me here, you know, and um, when, when you look at it that way, it’s like, well, hell, it’s worth a shot, isn’t it? You know, like, I, I, I can’t see how adding humor to any situation is really gonna, um, well, I can’t say.

Any situation you’re not, you’re not making your, your eulogy at a funeral. Isn’t going to be, uh, you know, full of, you know, uh, uh, jokes that might be inappropriate or, you know, there, there are inappropriate times, sure. Um, but you know, when, when you’re dealing with. With that type of thing, um, you know, figuring out the right type of humor to, to get that person to, to come around.

You don’t want the, uh, the type of humor where you’re, you’re making fun of the person or you’re, you know, putting them down or anything, which might otherwise be seen as, you know, kind of teasing and might be humorous, um, but in a situation like that, maybe [00:55:00] not so much. Um, but, but when you, um, when, when you get the right Balance there.

And you get that person laughing. Um, you know, that might be, that might be what you need. And, um, that, that might be the, the thing that, that helps, helps them move in the right direction. Right. And I think that requires people, you’ve got to be around people, have your, your people, whether it’s family members or friends or coworkers or whoever it is, having a community of people around you, uh, that, understand this concept of laughter and can support each other that way and make jokes and Even shared experiences.

I mean, you can have a crappy situation. You can laugh about it later. Um, you know, there’s a situation when we were training to go to Afghanistan. Uh, we’re out driving, we’re in Louisiana and it’s muddy as all hell. And if we were driving around and we got all of our trucks stuck in the mud and, [00:56:00] uh, a driving course that was only supposed to take about an hour ended up taking us probably.

18 hours or so to get all the trucks unstuck. Um, we’re covered in mud, we’re cold, we’re wet, we’re, we’re miserable, but afterwards we can kind of laugh about it. Like, you know, the, the 20 or so 30 guys, whoever, uh, was there on that, uh, that, that training, we can kind of laugh about it. And we all came together and, and we had that shared experience and we can make jokes about it, you know, exactly.

Jack Daly: won’t, I won’t portend to be an expert in talking somebody down off that bridge.

Scott DeLuzio: sure.

Jack Daly: I don’t know Uh, and I won’t say that cracking a joke will get them to snap out of whatever. mood that they’re in. All I can say is I, I hope so. I hope [00:57:00] it could be that simple for some, some of the folks that are struggling with their demons.

There is a Facebook page called Veterans for Veterans that it seems like a week doesn’t go by that someone doesn’t post. I’m at the end of my rope. Uh, I don’t know what more to do. Uh, and the first time I said, just remember to laugh, somebody mistook it as saying that I’m laughing about your situation.

And that was 180 out from what my intention was, was just to remind that person, try laughing, try laughing at something, maybe, maybe it’ll break that, that, uh, That destructive chain, uh, that, of, you know, of mental and emotional, uh, reactions that you’re going through. I can only hope that, uh, this serves as [00:58:00] a coping mechanism for people.

It’s definitely not the cure, uh, but hopefully, uh, someone will be able to utilize it to, for the betterment of their situation and betterment of their lives.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, you know you got somebody who Stick with me on this one here. There’s a bit of analogy here, but, uh, someone who, uh, is in an accident, car accident, or, you know, some other accident and they’re, they’re bleeding out or whatever. And, and the, the paramedics come, they put a tourniquet on and they, the bandage it up and everything.

They, uh, get them to the hospital and, and, and kind of take care of them like that, um, that, that tourniquet is not the cure to that problem, right? The bandages are not the cure to the problem, but they, you know, They hold you over until you can get there, until you can get to the doctor who can fix you up, who can repair whatever the damage was and, and can get you to a point where you are cured.[00:59:00]

You know, not that that’s a disease or anything like that, that you’re cured of, but, but that you’re, you’re fixed, you’re healed, you’re, you’re getting better, right? And, um, you know, in, in certain circumstances, like, like in your unfortunate circumstance with your, uh. With your vision and the pain that you’re going through, um, there, there may not be a cure, um, but there may be, um, temporary relief, uh, where you might have, uh, you know, maybe there’s a medication that can dull the pain just a bit and make it bearable when it gets, uh, you know, that bad.

And, and so this, this is to me, seems like That type of a thing where it, it’s not the cure. It, you can’t be making jokes constantly, 24 seven. I mean, you could, um, and, and your life will definitely be, be a little bit more humorous, um, but isn’t going to fix those problems. It may just kind of help, [01:00:00] um, you know, delve a pain a little bit if, if you are going through that.

And I think that’s, um, you know, what we’re, we’re trying to do. So that way, um, You can focus on What will cure you? You know, if you’re, if you’re in such a dark place that you can’t even see the benefits of the therapy that you might be going through, um, you know, maybe this just gets you able to focus a little bit more on, on that, you know?

So, um, where can, oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

Jack Daly: It’s all about attitude. Um, you know, the whole incident, what, uh, what I went through personally after the laser attack, um, I was all right with when It saved, ended up saving somebody’s life. Us getting blazed that day actually saved a person’s life. Uh, I’ll leave that for my next book, Blind Treason. Um, [01:01:00] I’ll explain it in there.

But, uh, that was my moment of, all right, there was a bigger plan involved here. Um, I, I had to make this sacrifice to save somebody else’s life. I’m good with that.

Scott DeLuzio: It wasn’t for nothing, the sacrifice was not in vain, yeah, exactly, um, tell the listeners where they can find out a little bit more information about your, your book, uh, Laugh Out Loud, and where they can, um, you know, get a copy and, and that type of thing,

Jack Daly: Um, the, uh, there’s a couple of different places. So, uh, amazon. com is the, the more, more common, uh, place for the book Laugh Out Loud by Jack Daly. There’s a lot of Laugh Out Loud books, but they’re all joke books. Uh, which my version of Laugh Out Loud is not a joke book. Um, Barnes and Noble. Whatever their favorite store is to buy a [01:02:00] book or download a book.

It’s available in paperback and kindle or reader versions. And I’m currently working on the audiobook version. So I’m hoping to have that out before Christmas. That’s, uh, that’s a work in progress.

Scott DeLuzio: are you recording that yourself? I

Jack Daly: am the narrator.

Scott DeLuzio: did, I did the narration for my audio book and I don’t know if your experience is similar to mine, but it made me realize how much of a crappy reader I am when I, when I’m reading my own book, the words that I wrote in the book and I’m reading it and. In my head, I’m like, Oh yeah, I know what the next words are in this next line.

So I’m like, you know, I’m, I’m like kind of skimming as I’m reading and I’m realizing, Nope, that’s not what I said. I said something different. Like I said it a different way or whatever. And I’m like, okay, crap. Now I got to go back and reread this whole thing because I screwed it all up. Um, there were, there profanities, uh, [01:03:00] That did not make it into the book in the making of the audio book, just because I screwed up so many damn times,

Jack Daly: doing the producing and mastering of it myself. Um, I don’t know if you went that route, but, uh, that has been a challenge. I’ve been taking classes for the last two months on how to use, uh, Audacity, in this case, the recording software. Uh, it’s, it’s not easy. It’s a definite.

Scott DeLuzio: not.

Jack Daly: Definite

Scott DeLuzio: I, I did, I did that myself as well. And, and maybe we can talk offline a little bit about that, but there was, there, there’s a few things that helped, uh, with that, but, um, uh, before we go, I do, I, we did have a couple of jokes throughout this episode, but I do like to end each episode with a little humor.

Um, I, I agree with you that laughter is, uh, definitely, uh, you know, one of the, the best medicines out there. Um, and. And for, for the money, you can’t get better, right? It’s, it’s [01:04:00] free. It’s out there, right? And my kids actually, um, talk about dad jokes, uh, got this dad joke book, uh, extra punny, uh, dad jokes, uh, warning, eye rolling, side splitting jokes may lead to laughter and groans.

And so, uh, it got me that for Father’s Day. And, uh, uh, I was like, you know what? This is going to be a perfect occasion to break this bad boy out. So, um, so I’ll read one of these here from, from the book here. So on the, the joke goes on father’s day, a little boy decides to make his dad breakfast in bed. He makes scrambled eggs, toast, and coffee.

He brings it to his dad, hands him a cup of coffee, and says, Try it, dad. And the father takes a sip and nearly gags because it’s so disgusting. And the little boy asks, Dad, how do you like it? And he’s trying not to hurt the boy’s feeling, and so he goes, Well, this is something else. I’ve never tasted coffee quite like this before.

And the little boy smiles from ear to ear and says, [01:05:00] Well, drink some more. And, and as he’s drinking, he notices, uh, two plastic green, uh, army men in the bottom of the cup. goes, Hey, why did you put army men in here? And the little boy goes. Uh, he smiles at his dad and he goes, the best part of waking up is soldiers in your cup.

Jack Daly: That’s a good one. I like that one.

Scott DeLuzio: Uh, yeah, I thought that that would be an appropriate one for this, uh, this, this, uh, episode here. So anyways, uh, Jack, thank you again for taking the time to join us and sharing, uh, you know, your background. And, and I think it was important. Um, to share your background and kind of where you came from, because, uh, a lot of times when, when folks are in a situation where they, you know, something, they might feel like something was taken from them, their career was ripped from them, [01:06:00] or like the pilot in your case, um, where.

He was no longer able to fly. He had a lucrative civilian career after his retirement, um, all lined up. And, um, you know, all of these things, like the world seems like it’s out to get you and if you can find a way to laugh throughout this, if you could figure out a way to laugh, despite the fact that you’ve been in pain for the last, you know, almost 30 years or so now, right?

Like almost daily. And you could still find a way to laugh daily. That’s got to say something like you, your attitude and your, your way of looking at things, um, just is going to build up that, um, that resilience so, so that when there’s going to be another unfortunate negative situation in your life at some point, um, when those things happen, [01:07:00] you’ve learned, like, that’s your reflex.

You can learn to laugh it off. Right. And, um, Not that it’s going to diminish the negativity of whatever that situation is, but, um, it kind of helps reset you the same way. I was talking about the, the soldier, uh, when I, when we were in Afghanistan, um, it kind of just resets you and refocuses it and, and you get a little more perspective maybe that way.

And, and maybe that’s just what we need is a little more perspective. And that I think is a beautiful thing.

Jack Daly: It’s, it all comes down to, as you said before, what’s between your ears, um, and, and attitude. Uh,

I walk every day past a group of, uh, of cops, uh, where I work and I can tell just by looking at some of them, their facial expressions. [01:08:00] That they’re, they’re hating life. Uh, and I always wonder what’s going on. And I remind myself that there’s always somebody out there that’s worse off than I am right now. You know, that’s dealing with something far greater than whatever I’m dealing with, uh, with my eyes. I, I think that serves as a sanity check for me. To remind myself, there’s probably somebody else right now that’s, that’s suffering far more, uh, than I can imagine. Uh, so it’s, it’s humbling to have that thought run through my mind.

Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely. Well, Jack, thank you again, uh, for everything, for, for sharing everything, for the book that you wrote. Um, you know, I’m hopeful that some folks will go out there and grab a copy. I’ll have a link to it in the show notes, uh, for anyone who wants to grab a copy, [01:09:00] uh, and, and, uh, check that out. Um, I’ll also have a link to your website.

Uh, it’s Jack. DailyAuthor. com. Uh, so that way folks can, can check you out and check your work out. Um, and you know, any future work that you might have, they can check it out there. Um, but again, thank you so much for taking the time to come on.

Jack Daly: Well, thank you, Scott, and thank you for your service.

Scott DeLuzio: Thank you for yours as well. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.