Episode 412 Bryan Wempen Finding Hope through Recovery Transcript

This transcript is from episode 412 with guest Bryan Wempen.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

Hey everyone, welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and today my guest is Brian Wempen. Brian is an army veteran, author, and mental health entrepreneur. He is in long term recovery from drugs and alcohol and recently released his book, Fuck My Demons, Redefining Normal, A Journey to Find Spirit.

And today we’ll discuss his journey from his troubled past to recovery. His work with veterans on mental health and addiction recovery and the insights from his book. So, uh, before we get started, [00:01:00] uh, Brian, first off, want to welcome you to the show. Thanks for being here.

Bryan Wempen: Now, Scott, I, I appreciate it and I’m excited to, uh, excited for the conversation. You’re, uh, I just finished your, your book yesterday. So, uh, I’m, it got my mind spinning on a whole bunch of topics and, and old things I hadn’t thought about in a long time. So, uh, thanks for having me.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m, I’m glad that it kind of got your mind going. Um, that’s, that’s great. That was one of the goals, I guess, of the book was to, you know, get people thinking and, and get, you know, some, uh, conversations going and maybe even just, just some thoughts that maybe people never even considered, uh, to just start getting the ball rolling on some of that stuff.

So anyways, so, uh, glad to hear that feedback. So, um, tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of your background. I know we, we, um, you know, We talked a little bit in the intro, uh, a little bit [00:02:00] about you, but tell us about your, your journey, kind of what, um, what got you from there to where you are, uh, today.

Bryan Wempen: Sure. No, it’s, uh, and again, uh, sorry for your brother. I didn’t include that in my, that was a good, uh, good honoring. Like there’s no better way to honor than just talk about it. Right. And so, uh, just wanted to say that. Thanks. And, yeah, so, you know what? It was interesting. So, started out, um, you know, go all the way back to the beginning, was adopted, so, uh, for more than half my life, had no idea who, like, who the blood relative side, so, was adopted at birth, so, um, California, California.

Taken out to, uh, headed out to Wyoming. That’s where both my parents are from, that, uh, my adoptive parents, and, um, you know, had all the family there, and so everything was really kind of, [00:03:00] like, Pretty normal. Um, one side of the family is high octane and the other’s pretty chill. Um, you know, not unheard of.

And, uh, and so, yeah. And so, and then, you know, and then we moved away from all the family when I was like five years old. And I, Through the work that I’ve done in recovery, um, and I’m long term recovery for the last 14 years, I’ve, I think I’ve just, I’ve found different points in my timeline that were significant, was able to identify that just through the work I’ve done.

And I think that was a pretty pivotal moment because we moved away from everything I knew to like total isolation. I grew up on a, you know, on a, on a ranch cattle farm. And so it’s isolated. Right. And we really didn’t have any family there. I went from all family, like cousins, big, like both sides, [00:04:00] aunts, uncles, always having family around to absolutely nobody except my mother, father, and younger, you know, my younger sister.

And I think that was a pretty defining. Moment and how I was processing things and so, so yeah. So grew up in Nebraska that we kind of went from Wyoming to Nebraska, Midwest and real small rural community. Um, you know, I was always kind of in the middle of the bell curve. Um, you know, I just kinda, I was smart enough to not be at the bottom, never quite worked hard enough to be at the top, you know, but always kind of stayed off the, you know, and kind of just like, let me do my thing and academically and, um, and was, you know, just blessed with some decent, uh, DNA intellectually.

So I was able to keep up with things without a ton of work. Was good in sports. So that kind of also kind of gave me a [00:05:00] pass on things. And, um, and you know, people really loved my mom. She was very, she drove the bus. And so people knew her and really liked her and people were scared shitless of my father.

So it was a very, we had a very good, we had a balance that I had a nice little silo around me that people just, you know, I just kind of got away with a lot. Um, yeah. And so it was interesting. And so, but you know, but as soon as I could get to like the very first time that I ever was able to drink without any consequences, it was a blackout, you know, I was 14, um, very first time, like first time that I could go all in and hit the gas, I was, it was like, okay.

I feel much, the world feels more, um, manageable and I found my place and after that I was chasing feeling different from that time on, [00:06:00] like it was very, very defining. So,

Scott DeLuzio: I can see that, uh, where you just bet, especially at such a young age, you have, uh, your, uh, impulse control is not there, right. Um, where, where a lot of times, you know, think about a little kid. It’s like, here’s a whole. You know, bowl full of candy, like Halloween candy or something like that. Right. And it’s like, well, one was good.

Could you imagine what this whole bowl is going to be like if I just eat it? And then they got the stomach ache and they’re sick and they’re, they’re feeling like crap afterwards. Cause you know, we all know after having had an experience, probably like that, or seeing people have an experience like that, that’s not the best way to go.

And, and so, um, you know, when you have. Someone, you know, young like that, who is exposed to drugs or alcohol or, or [00:07:00] things like that at, at such a young age. Um, it’s like, well, you know, yeah, it does feel good, you know, for, for a little bit, you know, until it doesn’t and it’s like, okay, well if one was good, let’s, how about, how about two?

How about three? How about, you know, however anymore? Is that kind of like how you experience it? You

Bryan Wempen: yeah, it was, you know, the average, so the average age in the U. S. for, you know, Individuals who are diagnosed with, uh, you know, alcohol, you know, substance use disorder, their first, like, their first experience on average is at 12, right? So, and I would have been at 12 if I could have got to it. Easier, quicker, and things like, like really full on.

So, so I wasn’t that far off the norm. It’s pretty consistent, but yeah, I mean, it’s, what happens is you, it’s, it’s control, right? If you don’t feel something good and something makes you feel good, you’re like, okay, I want that. I can now control, I can control how I feel by [00:08:00] taking something external to do that, right?

Oh, you. You basically take, you basically have found a new coping mechanism, right? And you talked about this in your book, you know, some of the coping mechanisms that weren’t unhealthy. When you came back, right? And, um, same thing, right? It’s the same thing where you found a coping mechanism that works for you, but it’s not very healthy, right?

And not everybody, not everybody becomes, you know, dependent on it, right? They use it for their, you know, so it’s not, you know, I don’t ever. Like at one, I don’t suggest taking my path. I mean, but people’s path is there’s other ways to do it, right? I mean, you don’t, cause you know, again, I, and what happens though, when you start doing that, a lot of other things stop, right?

You just don’t, the interest wanes. Like you talked about golf in your book. Like, interest just goes away for a variety of reasons, right? [00:09:00] Because you’re, you’re now focused on things that are going to make you feel back to what you, you remember being par or normal. And so you start chasing that, right? And, and your brain, how you, how you emotionally regulate and how you deal with stress, how you deal with everything starts to change, right?

And when you’re, when you’re Like, when you’re in your formative years, what happens is your curiosity dies. Because you’re chasing something to make you feel different. And so everything just stops, right? Like your social, like how you socially develop, how you, how you emotionally develop, I mean, potentially how you physically develop, like all of that is happening.

And so, so by the time I was 16, and again, I, I was, you know, I got really good at hiding things. Right? I mean, that’s, that’s one of the things you do when you’re, you know, when you’re [00:10:00] chasing that stuff is you’re trying to stay functioning, but have enough to function and hide it. And so by the time I was 16, I was a daily drinker.

And hit it. Like I was able to hide it. I don’t know how actually, um, because you know, again, just smart enough, just good enough kid, um, was well enough, well, I was liked enough that people would be like, it was a one time thing, right? They would kind of dismiss. And I think I was able to manipulate that situation, you know, until Like I was a daily drinker until I went to, so I graduated early.

I graduated, um, in December of my senior year. And January 4th, I was on a plane to Fort Knox, Kentucky. So I was, uh, I was, uh, uh, Nebraska National Guard Army and I was a tanker and so, which is Fort Knox. [00:11:00] So we were the very first, this is in 1987, January 4th, 1987. Can’t ever forget it. I was so scared. I just, you know, cause I was 17, you know, I wanted my independence and then I got my independence cause I was now a form of it.

Like I’m on a plane. I remember, and just, this is, you might identify with this more than, than most. So, luckily, there was a, there was a woman that was in my row, who was very, luckily, willing to talk, because I was scared to death, right? I was such a bundle of nerves, and, um, it was the only second flight I’ve ever been on in my life.

Um, Country Kid, and luckily this lady was so, so nice, and she must have partially recognized that I was, you know, a bit of a basket case, and talked to me the whole flight from, uh, Omaha to Louisville, [00:12:00] and, um, yeah, I just remember that so clearly because it was so calming, like it, it kind of took me out of my head for a bit, and it was so pleasant, and then we landed.

And then it all started, right? And, um, and it was, uh, it was, and we were the first ones to do straight through where we did BASIC and AIT with exactly the same platoon. And it was, you know, it was the very first time that they did a consecutive training, uh, actual, uh, uh, curriculum or whatever you want to call it.

I don’t know the term. Um, but yeah, it was, and it was. You know, it, I’m glad, because I, you really have to, like, not getting away from it, I think, probably helped me a little bit, but I didn’t drink, I mean, well, the week, the one day we had off in the middle of it, me and, like, four other guys from the platoon went and got hammered, right?

Like, went to, went to Elizabethtown, which is right beside Fort Knox for the night, got a [00:13:00] hotel, got a Case of liquor and just got, you know, just got hammered. But other than that, I didn’t drink from January 4th until like May 18th, I guess it was when I graduated and headed back. And, and so, yeah, so it was, you know, that was a really interesting time because again, Um, I really quickly figured out keep my mouth shut, right?

Cause I was, I was typical 17 year old, a bit of a smart ass and thought I was smarter than I was and about three seconds into it, I’m like, Oh, I’m going to keep my mouth shut, like I could see, I could see how it was going. I’m like, And my father, who was a Vietnam veteran, um, he had told me, like, don’t volunteer for anything, like, he gave me all the, he gave me all the stuff, right, he’s like, you’re gonna be [00:14:00] around, you know, a lot, you know, a lot of different people from different places.

You’re all the same. And, and he told me, he said, like, he grew up in a, in a very, you know, in a very rural area in Wyoming, and he’s like, he’d never really been around anybody but Native Americans. But when he got to Vietnam, he goes, he goes, when the bullets start flying, he goes, and people are getting shot, and they’re dragging you out, or you’re dragging them out.

He goes, it doesn’t matter what they look like, how they talk, where they’re from, it doesn’t matter. He goes, you are all just trying to stay alive. He goes, that’s when, he goes, that’s, that’s, that’s the way you live your life. Yours is no different. Right? He goes, so, which was a really pretty, he wasn’t like a big, share, like, wisdom guy, but this is like the talk that he gave me, because we never talked about Vietnam.

It was a really, he, he, he was a lifelong, [00:15:00] undiagnosed, untreated, you know, really chronic, severe PTSD. From that experience. Um, and we’ll talk about that here in a bit, but, um, but so we really didn’t talk about it, but this is the time he’s like, look. Here’s some things to think about, right? Don’t volunteer for anything.

Don’t be last. Don’t be first. Stay in the middle. Stay in the middle. He goes, just stay in the middle and just be the number. Don’t be the one that they know your name. He goes, because that is not going to be a pleasant experience and it clicked like right away. And so I remember that like crystal clear.

Scott DeLuzio: well, it’s funny that you say that because as you were talking about, you know, growing up, you’re in school and you’re, you’re never really, you know, at the head of your class, but you’re never at the bottom of your class either smart enough to get by without putting in too much effort. And I was thinking to myself.

Man, that probably served you very well in basic training because you were probably able to just, you know, fly under the radar. They didn’t know, [00:16:00] they didn’t have to know your name. You didn’t screw up too much. You didn’t, you didn’t get into any kind of super big trouble or anything like that. You just kind of flew under the radar and there were some other people who were probably screwing up a lot more and they knew their names and, and you’re fine with just letting them know their names and, and let them get the extra attention, right?

Bryan Wempen: I’m telling you, it’s been, that was 1987, doing my math here for a second, was that 30, how many years ago, I can’t think, I haven’t had enough coffee, so, you know, 30, what, 36 years ago, 37, 37 years ago, um, I can still remember Private Kuru. Private Kuru was the guy that right off the bat, he was just pushing the envelope at every turn.

And he was in, he was, he was from like urban Philadelphia, which was completely different than me. And he was, and he was in great shape. The guy could literally do 100 push ups, not break. So that’s all he did [00:17:00] for 5 months was push ups. Like, that’s all I remember, because he was always the one that was a little bit off step, trying to be funny.

Like, he just never, it never quite, he just never kind of bent. to the process and so he took a lot off of everybody else because he was always took that energy a little bit of the energy out of that process from the from the yelling and the direction of the angst so I only got in trouble one time.

Like the only time I got, I got extra duty one time, um, actually take that back two times, so totally, totally forgot to actually, um, uh, stop, like, they were doing, um, boy, this terminology leaves you when you’re not around it or don’t think about it, so, the day was closing, so they were, they were doing, is it, what’s the, what’s the, the back end, not,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. They’re, they’re, they’re, they’re lower in the flag. That’s what you’re [00:18:00] talking about. Right.

Bryan Wempen: they’re lowering their flag, and I was thinking about something, and I didn’t stop, and I have like the, like a lieutenant colonel was literally right there, and I, I didn’t stop, right? I was thinking about something else, didn’t hear it, whatever, and so I got, uh, got weekend duty for that. And, and then another time, um, it was frickin cold.

Like, it was absolutely January in Kentucky. It was so cold, so I wore my PT hoodie underneath my, uh, BDUs. Because they didn’t give us, like, winter gear, because it wasn’t, like, like, Minot, you know, it wasn’t North Dakota. I was just freezing, so, so I got busted on that. And it was awesome, because three of us had to go clean.

An Air Force barracks, and those Air Force officers, those Warrant Officers, We’re so chill and we went to like and they were like you guys just need to calm down [00:19:00] Right, like we’re not we’re not your drill sergeants. We just do your work. We don’t care Take a break We’ll take and they took us over to the officer the officer the army the Air Force officer mess and it was like a restaurant we and we And we were like going and they’re like you guys

Scott DeLuzio: You couldn’t get enough food. I’m sure.

Bryan Wempen: you guys just need to like take a breath, right?

You’re making everybody nervous, right? And and we’re like, okay, and it was awesome It was like I remember it was the best weekend ever because we got to go for a day Get away from everybody and it was just it was fantastic. So,

Scott DeLuzio: During that time period that you’re there. So other than that one time in between like the basic and AIT portion where, where you had a bunch of guys got, got some booze and, and you were drinking. Other than that, you didn’t drink. How do you feel that that, did that help things for you? Or [00:20:00] did you, as you were getting out, where was it like you were, you were craving, uh, looking for it, like as soon as you got out of there?

Bryan Wempen: uh, no, what was interesting? I was so, you know when you kind of You You know, because I was, again, I was in the process, right? I mean, I was, again, I was smart enough to embrace the process, and when we did really well, I was with a good, I was at the ragtag company to start, and we evolved into a really, really good, a really, really good platoon, uh, you know, and, and we’re one of the best in the, in the battalion, um, because we worked hard, right, and paid attention, and it wasn’t because we were the most talented, we just worked hard.

And so, when I got out of that and had a structured process for five months, I, it wasn’t so much that it was the, the craving anything, it was, I felt so out of place going back to my high school, because they postponed my high school graduation [00:21:00] so that I could participate, which was in, or high school prom, prom, so I could participate, which was super cool.

Um, and came back and I was so out of sorts because it was just, You know, and again, you reference this in your book, is like, you just feel like you don’t, like you don’t fit in. Like everything is just, uh, trivial, right? And the conversations don’t make any, the conversations aren’t interesting. Like you’re, you just literally spent, I spent literally five months, you know, in a very regimented, very important, you know, like, I was literally on a tank table firing a tank.

Like three weeks before and now I’m at prom at high school with a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds and 16 year olds

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Bryan Wempen: there’s just there’s just a hard it’s hard to reconcile that especially when you don’t I didn’t have the I didn’t have those emotional skills to to to make [00:22:00] the the bridge to reconcile all that at all and so it took a few weeks and then I I went right back into like, you know, I worked for I worked a friend of mine’s a friend of my friend One of my really good friends in high school’s dad gave me a job to work for them and, you know, paid really well.

And I was able to work, drink at lunch, and I was working with people. I, you know, my, my friends, we worked hard and, you know, we, Partied so I was back in it and I was back in it with a little more conviction now because I was Mr. Independent because I had kind of got I’m not I’m not the kid anymore, right?

so going into college and I went and I went went into school and I was ready to roll man I got to college and wheels off like it was I had you know And it was really a very [00:23:00] tumultuous time because I was not I was fighting a lot with, like I said, my father. Um, we did not have a, I was a mess. He was, you know, he was a mess because of, you know, you know, hindsight.

Now I know what, what the problem, you know, what was going on. Um, so, I mean, it wasn’t at the end of the day, he was doing the best he could with, you know, not being treated for it. He didn’t know what was going on, I guarantee. And I’ve,

Scott DeLuzio: Very few people back then probably knew what was going

Bryan Wempen: it’s, there’s a lot, I’ve talked to, like, I’ve talked to several people. Vietnam veterans who have, like, who have actually are involved in helping treat and support other Vietnam veterans and other veterans, and their story is exactly the same. They’re like, I didn’t know why I would, I would be the life of the party, I wouldn’t want to be around anybody, I would cry, and then I would be in this blind rage, [00:24:00] like, in minutes, like, and I just didn’t, there was, I just didn’t know what was going on, and, um, and he was, and he was the same way, like this, it was very conflicted because he, He was so, he had such a good sense of humor, but he also was, he could be terrifying.

And I was not, I’m not kidding when Pete, when I said that growing up, people just didn’t mess with them, right? There’s some people who talk a, you know, talk a big game, and then there’s other people who don’t talk, and they’re all about action. They knew my, They knew my father was not a big talker. Like, if they were in that situation, they knew that it was, you know, it wasn’t going to end well for one of them.

And it wasn’t going to him. He was, he was a good sized guy, but more so, he was very convicted in whatever the conversation was, if he wanted to come a certain way. And [00:25:00] so, And yeah, so we had, like, all the other, all the other big, you know, the, in communities, you always have people that are kind of the, the roughest and biggest and, you know, all of them were very respectful of my father, like the people that everybody were scared of, were very respectful and cognizant of, Like, staying on the right side of my dad.

So, it was, it was an interesting scenario, but again, he was, he was, he was, he was battling stuff that he didn’t even know about, we didn’t understand, just thought that he was really volatile, and, um, probably the last 10 years of his life, give or take, he, it was weird because he had a guy that, that found him, that really searched and found him that he was in Vietnam with.

Who was his peer, and then, like, wanted to, like, spend time with him and reconnect, and he made him talk about [00:26:00] Vietnam. That was the only person that could force him to have that conversation because they had that shared experience, right? And my dad was like, you know, my dad would always say, I don’t know why he always wants to talk about that GD Vietnam, right?

He’d even complain to me, but over time It took it, it took all of that out of the darkness, and because my dad never would, like, never wear Vietnam veteran things, never would participate, he was very, there was a lot of shame, and anger, and just conflicted, I mean, that, those folks had some of the worst, like, the worst coming back, and they got treated, I mean, just the worst.

Just tragically, right? And so you carried all of that, all those years, and luckily, the last 10 15 years, you know, he started wearing simple things, right? Like, he would go to the parades, and he would, and he [00:27:00] would actually shake people’s hand versus avoiding them. Uh, that’s why there were things in your book that were so poignant, you know, when you talked about coming, like, Atlanta airport, Um, and things like that, like, just stood out.

Like, it was so stark and like, because dad was like, he just was, he was, he was embarrassed and then mad because he didn’t know what to do with people saying, you know, we appreciate your service, right? And so luckily, He got to enjoy what he, you know, be proud of what he did the last few years of his life.

And so, um, by the way, I lived in Atlanta for 10 years. I know exactly, exactly the spot where everybody coming back in, either going out or coming back in, we’re all coming into that, that one end, um,

Scott DeLuzio: It all funnels through that one

Bryan Wempen: Hartsfield. So I know it’s not Hartsfield anymore, but yeah. So,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Um, at some [00:28:00] point along the way, uh, you know, you’re, you’re dealing with all, all your stuff. Your, your dad’s dealing with his stuff, but you’re, you’re dealing with yours. When did you recognize that there was some sort of problem that you needed to

Bryan Wempen: oh my god, it was, it was way down the road. I went through, um, unfortunately, got introduced to, um, a lot of different drugs when I was 18, so it wasn’t just alcohol, it was, it was a lot of drugs and alcohol, and, and I always had like three or four jobs, like I was always, the saving grace that kept me, like, higher functioning in a sense that I wasn’t completely destitute was that I just worked all, I, like I would work, Work, work, work, work, work.

I literally had three or four jobs. I’ve always had, I’ve always been able to, like, I know even at my worst, I can go figure out how to make money because I’m a hard worker. Um, not always a smart worker, but I’m definitely a [00:29:00] hard worker. Um, so like that was, you know, luckily, uh, after college, like I was, Luckily, first of all, the college was gracious enough to give me a diploma, which I’m to this day, I’m very thankful for, um, because I was not a good student.

Um, I had lots of other interests and so, but luckily the very last time that I ever did drugs was in 1996 and it, and, I had an OD in there and I knew that that was going to kill me. And so instead of, instead of dying quick, I went slow and just stayed with alcohol. And a lot of it lived all over, moved all over the country.

Uh, you know, was, was fairly successful externally at making money and my career and everything. But you got to get, you got to fast forward. That was, that was, I graduated when I was 24 and started my career and progressed in And I was 40 when, was [00:30:00] the day, I mean, I tried to stop several times throughout that time, but it was all those years later that something clicked, and I’m like, Something’s gotta change, or I’m gonna be in a blackout and kill somebody driving, which is the worst.

Uh, or Might Take My Own Life, which is, you know, in, in, in the hierarchy for me, that’s better than killing somebody else, right, just an innocent victim, you know, but it’s still bad, right, it’s still, like, not to mention everybody around me is, is miserable, I’m miserable, like, I was married at the time, and it just, it was just horrible, like, I felt absolutely horrible.

At the bottom, and look, there really wasn’t anything significant happen. I had a lot worse things happen, like the stories are endless of all the bad, humiliating, tragic things, and that I was a part of. Um, but the last day was just something clicked. I don’t, I don’t [00:31:00] need to know what, but it finally clicked when I was 40.

I’ve got to try something else, or I’m just, it’s, it’s not going to end well. Like I knew it and it really progressed like that the day before that the day before was you know When you’re ordering like at last call when you’re ordering like three doubles Just to get you to you know, just just uh, that’s what I need Like at a function with other professionals because I’d cross the line if I didn’t care Like I didn’t care about hiding anymore a few months earlier.

So it really had progressed In like two months to where this is going to get this explosion is going to be bad And so I just that was the day that was the day it was march That was march 9th 2010 March 9th, may 9th 2010. That was the you know, I knew that something had to change And that’s, that, that was the day.

Like it was just this, [00:32:00] it was just this shift of, I can’t do this anymore. Like I hear it over and over again. I’ve, I’ve talked to probably a thousand people in recovery, probably two thousand people in recovery by now. And it’s all, it’s all somewhat the same for very different reasons where something just happens and you’re like, I, I’ve just gotta, I just can’t do it, right?

And I’m lucky enough to have God on the other side of it, right? So, but that was, it was all those years later. So, sure,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, I like to ask that question. Reason why is because, um, I’m all, I’m all about trying to help other people kind of see what other people who have, have gone through to kind of see that, that they have. Yeah. Progression, that process. And, um, hopefully they can take away a little nugget of [00:33:00] information from, from there.

Right. And, and in cases like, like this, um, my hope is that someone will be able to understand that, that process. The direction that they’re going down, the, if they keep doing this, it’s not going to get better on its own. Um, that’s something that in my own story, um, you know, we were talking about my book, but in my own life, um, if I just kept doing what I was doing, I realized it wasn’t getting any better.

If anything, it was getting worse. Um, and at some point you have to realize that, um, and from conversations with people like yourself and other people that I’ve talked to, um, unfortunately. A lot of times you kind of have to figure that out on your own. Um, like just like a lot of other life lessons that, that you learn all the way going back to childhood, when you learn that, I use this example, but if you [00:34:00] touch a hot stove, well, it’s going to burn you and it’s going to hurt.

So you don’t do that. Well, unfortunately I could tell a little kid that all I want, but it may not. Click and their head like, well, how bad is it really, you know, that type of thing. So sometimes I feel like you have to almost Experience that for yourself. Um, but also hearing stories like yours, stories like mine, other people’s stories might help get them to that conclusion a little quicker.

Like, you know what? Yeah, man, maybe, maybe I don’t have all the answers. Maybe I do need to get some help and I do need to stop the drinking, the drugs, the, you know, whatever it is that they’re, they’re vices, you know? Um, And, and so do you have any advice for other folks who might be struggling with, with these types of issues, um, like to, to kind of either come to that conclusion on their own or, or any other, uh, type of, uh, advice that you might have for them?[00:35:00]

Bryan Wempen: sure. So there’s, you know, there’s, there’s a few things, because I’ve, I’ve spent a lot of time, because I’ve written, I’ve written several books, um, about kind of all of this, right? And just the goal of those books was that somebody hears something that it’s going to help them, right? Either make them feel better or they’ll be able to tell their, you know, some, a family or a friend about it to make them feel better.

That’s the goal, right? Is to, is to, to, to give people some hope, right? And so I think, you know, I think a lot of times, Like, my biggest piece of advice is, you know, just take, kind of take stock or, or kind of take an inventory. of of the any anybody good Anybody good that you came across in your life and and really start to think about that, right?

It’s a it’s actually it’s an oddly more [00:36:00] difficult question than you would think right because I know again thousands of people that i’ve met They’ve had, they, they might have like, they’ve, they’ve maybe stopped drinking or they’ve stopped using whatever it is. Like they’ve, they’ve did it for a while, but the, they haven’t did the underlying work.

So they, you know, when things get stressful or something happens, they go back to, they go back to the default coping mechanism, right? And so the biggest thing is, if you come across somebody you know is, is in recovery, right? That has kind of got on the other side of it. Do not lose their number, because when the moment happens that, because it is a very individualized decision, right?

Like you said, like, it’s either a case that, and there’s a lot of different ways to get there. It could be the court system. It could [00:37:00] be homelessness. It could be, you know, it could be a consequence of, you know, uh, of a partner or spouse or children saying, I don’t want to ever talk to you again, unless you stop doing that.

There’s a lot of different There are, you know, consequences that you might be presented with that might not land or not, right? You just might not hear. Like your spirit and self is not ready to do anything about it. Um, so the willingness factor isn’t quite high enough, right? And I don’t mean like self will, I mean just willingness as a whole.

Like, and so, but if you, my suggestion is if you, you know, be around as many positive people as possible, first of all, like in life in general, but if you, if you have come across people in your life that you know, have gotten recovery because they’re the ones to call first, right? Because they’ve done it.

And that’s exactly like I, I [00:38:00] had somebody that I was a former business partner and friends with. Um, luckily he was gracious enough to stay friends with me after all my bad behavior. And he was my first phone call. Like, I’m like, something’s got to change. I need your help. Can, you know, can, can I, can you tell me, can we meet for coffee?

Can we, like, tell me how I need to start this process? Right? And, and we met the next, he’s like, you know, can you make it to the next day? And I’m like, yeah, I can make it to the next day. And so we met the next day and he’s like, okay, here, here’s my experience. Here’s how I did it. And I’m gonna share this with you.

It’s not about giving advice, like him telling me how to do it. He’s like, here’s how I do it, and here’s some things to think about, you pick and choose out of that menu. But you just got to do something, right? It’s like recovery [00:39:00] is about taking action, right? That, I can’t remember exactly the phrase that you used, um, but you said you and your wife are the personalities that you’re kind of get shit done type personalities.

That might’ve been it. Um,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Something along those lines.

Bryan Wempen: uh,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. That works.

Bryan Wempen: um, and that resonated because that like recovery is about action, right? It’s not about the talking. It’s not about the feeling bad. It’s not about all this stuff. It’s about, okay, How do I rewire my day? How do I rewire, uh, and start to, like, unpack all the things that I’m, I was, I was, uh, I was anesthetizing because of, right?

I’ve got bad coping mechanisms, so how do I build new coping mechanisms? And so You know, just day by, when they say take it day by day, step by step, you know, [00:40:00] those types of things. Um, I’m, you know, my path was AA, but there’s a lot of different paths, right? Um, and so plus, plus therapy, you know, just all those things, right?

So I’ve did a bunch of different things, but it’s every day just getting up and doing the work, right? And some days it doesn’t make as sense. And the only thing you need to do that day If, if your path is complete abstinence, it’s don’t drink, right? If your path is harm reduction, like if you’re trying to reduce it, then, you know, don’t have a bad thing happen, right?

Like there’s, there’s ways, but you just gotta do something every day, right? You can’t coast. There’s no coasting, because coasting fires up part of that brain that’s like, I can get away with this, right? I can stop doing the work. And so, but that’s a long answer to that. But the suggestion is [00:41:00] find people that have healthy, like just go through everybody you can think of, everybody, and you might need to search out new everybody’s, right?

Like you might literally might not have anybody. So you’ve got to figure out, Where can I find new people to, that have healthier coping skills, and have healthier, happier lives? And you gotta find those people, because you can’t do it alone. We’re just not wired as human beings to do that stuff alone. And so the connectedness is part of where you get healthy, because you’re isolating.

There’s nobody in re there’s nobody that is actively using drugs or alcohol, or, or, Or, you know, whatever, whatever the, whatever it is that is not isolating and hiding things. Right. And so those are not healthy behaviors and coping and stuff like that. So

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And again, another reason [00:42:00] why I like to share stories like yours is, is one of the things that you mentioned where you might need to pick bits and pieces from your story, from the friend that you called and that you, you met with, here’s the outline of what they did and, and you got to pick. And choose a couple of the things that kind of maybe register with you.

And it’s like, that makes sense. So, um, but not everything from your story is going to make sense to everybody, but not everything from somebody else’s story. Again, it’s going to make sense to that same person, but there might be little bits and pieces that work for you that will work for that person and little bits of pieces from someone else’s story that works.

That’s why I love being able to share stories like yours, not. Like I, I wish it didn’t, but you know, here we are, it did. And, and it’s happening for other people right now too. And if we can share these stories and [00:43:00] get your message out there and your. Roadmap, if you will, of how you navigated through all of this.

Well, that might just help people pick, uh, the stops along the way on that roadmap, if you think of it that way, um, that, that sound like they might work for them, um, but you’re right. Having that community or support network in place, um, I, I think is definitely a huge part of it because. When you’re in isolation and you don’t have people around you who are supportive in getting you through that journey, um, you may have people around you, not necessarily ones who are interested in helping you recover, uh, that are different people here, the people who are interested in helping you recover when you have those people around, then in the back of your head, you’re like, okay, well, [00:44:00] I, if I have no, no other reason in the world to do this, to get through recovery, I could do it for them.

And, um, you know, maybe, maybe it’s an extreme example, but maybe you can think to yourself, what will that person’s reaction be like at my funeral? If I’ve overdosed or if I’ve, you know, uh, crashed in a, uh, you know, a car accident or something, cause I was, you You know, uh, drinking and driving or whatever.

Um, you know, what, what’s that person, what’s that person’s face going to look like, uh, you know, standing over my casket at my funeral, you know, they’re going to be crying or they, is that something I want, you know, like, that’s just something else that you can have in the back of your head and think to yourself, like, well, I wouldn’t want to do that to that person and.

So, okay, now what do I do? How do I stop doing this so I can be there for that person instead [00:45:00] of having them crying or, you know, whatever the reaction is that you can envision, right?

Bryan Wempen: Yeah, no, that’s, you know, and it’s, you said a couple things that were really poignant, and the other thing is, you know, there’s a lot of different no cost informally organized types of programs to go see.

Uh, Narcotics Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous, Smart Recovery, like, you pretty much have all these different types of, you know, stepped, stepped programs that are, like, if you don’t have money, you don’t need money, right? You just gotta take action to go there and sit and listen.

You don’t gotta talk. Like that’s how usually how it works is you come in and a lot of people are, you know, they’re sitting by the door, the chair closest to the door. You know, if you don’t recognize somebody, I’m like, there must be new. Cause there’s always these indicators. Like I said, I’ve [00:46:00] been in recovery 14 years.

Like, they’re just like, I can, the energy is just radiating off. I’m like, they’ve got to be a little bit new because they’re. You know, they got their exits covered and they’re ready, you know, they’re really uncomfortable. And so, but it doesn’t cost money. It’s just going and listening to the similarities, right?

That’s what, you know, what you said is really pointed because, you know, we’re wired for fight or flight, you know, Like that’s 70 percent of our physiology is survival, so you’ve got to set intention to listen to things that are similar, not different, right? Because the different is, like that’s, that’s the survival part is you’re just listening for the negative, right?

Something’s going to happen, like that’s, so you got to set that intention of how does that sound similar, right? So you’re, you’re, you’re right on the money. It’s, it is interesting just as a side. A lot of times, [00:47:00] um, the thinking about, this is kind of one of probably the more different things about people with, uh, Like somewhere on a, you know, some element of addiction, um, is a lot of times the thought of, of kind of the examples you used of I don’t want my family or I don’t want my kids or I don’t want them to, like, be at my funeral.

That could actually, that sometimes fuels the flame with somebody in addiction. Which is, it’s just this, it’s one of those weird things that I’ve learned over, you know, years and years is everybody is wired so differently because there’s a percentage that that is a real driver, right? Like they, they didn’t get, they didn’t get sober for their, they weren’t in recovery because of their selves.

They were doing it because of their kids, right? And. I heard the best explanation for this, because, because again, that can be a bit fleeting, [00:48:00] right, at times for different people for different reasons. And so this one, a friend of mine, um, said that she hated herself so much that she didn’t care about herself, but she loved her children.

So she had to focus on what she loved more than what she hated. Until she learned how to not hate herself and then learned how to love herself. That was that she goes that took a long time and she goes left, you know, I didn’t care about myself Right. That was the reason that I I was using anyway, and so I had to focus on something That I love so more than myself, right?

Bigger than myself and that was my kids and I focused on that and that’s what got me enough tools It got the substances out of my life It re it changed my processes and then [00:49:00] I got enough tools that I could start dealing with life As you know on life’s terms to use a a phrase Um, so yeah, it was so it’s just it’s it’s interesting.

There’s a lot of layers and complexities because And we haven’t talked about this, but I personally believe 100 percent of the time, and the statistics don’t, the data doesn’t back this up, but I believe that it’s co occurring, like you’re using substances and you’ve got anxiety, depression, trauma, anxiety, depression, and you’re self medicating on top of it, right?

So it’s kind of a layered effect, and you know, trauma’s at the base of the majority of it, and then something forks off. And starts the anxiety and depression. All of that is happening. Underneath the using, right? Like you’re just quieting all those, you’re quieting all the demons, so to speak, and you’re, [00:50:00] you know, with alcohol until it doesn’t quiet them anymore, right?

Then you’re just chasing, then you’re just chasing the blackout to where You just, you give up, right? Like your brain gives up and it’s like, I’m just going to shut off everything. Um, and so, but that’s, I think a big part of it is people, when they start unpacking it, it’s like, man, I’ve been suffering from depression, a type of depression for 30 years or 40 years.

Right. And I just was kind of coping with it. and treating it myself. So you got to start, you’re going to start unpacking the unpleasant shit a little bit at a time to start dealing with that because you need different coping skills to deal with it, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you mentioned, you mentioned these demons, right, that, that you’re dealing with, uh, and everyone’s demons are going to be different, right? But I, I don’t, No, and, and I may be wrong on this here, but I don’t know that there are very many [00:51:00] people who end up getting addicted to things, trying to mask something that don’t have that underlying something to mask, right?

Um, now, sure, there may be, there may be some people, I’m not saying it never happens, right? But, um, but you, you start to notice if. Even if it’s just recreationally using something that it would make you feel a certain way that is more pleasurable than when you didn’t have it. Why weren’t, why weren’t you feeling good to begin with?

Well, there might have been that underlying thing and, uh, that, that demon, uh, as you, as you put it, which, uh, we’ll get to your book in a minute, minute. That’s, that’s kind of the, the segue I was trying to, trying to work with here. Um, but, um, but that to [00:52:00] me seems like there’s that underlying thing that, I don’t know. You need to figure out, um, and, and figure out how, how do you deal with that, that underlying thing and, and get you back to feeling normal without the use of the substances that, that you might be, be, uh, using. Um, could you tell us a little bit about your book, um, kind of key messages, things that you hope people can take away from it and, and

Bryan Wempen: Sure. And it was a good segue, by the way. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, it’s, you know, and, and, and the demon angel recovery, I mean, the demon angel part was very, um, you know, those were just trying to make points that people could identify with. Um, But you’re exactly right. Like it’s nobody wakes up and says, I’m going to use to a blackout, right?

That [00:53:00] doesn’t happen like you don’t grow up and go, I want to aspire to be completely, you know, shit face wandering around the streets, right? Like that just does. That’s not how it works. It’s just a coping skill that you thought you found and you started using because that coping skill worked, right? So you’re exactly, you’re exactly correct.

And. And kind of what you said. So really kind of, I didn’t plan on writing another book about, about recovery, about my story anyway, but after the pandemic, like that was such a. significant moment in time for our generation and for the future generation. Um, I’m like, you know, it’s, I’ve seen the best of people.

I’ve seen some, you know, some absolute way worse of people than I thought was possible. And so, um, and just navigated isolation, navigated, you know, a world. Like stopping [00:54:00] for a bit and redefining, um, to a degree and, and I’m, I’m in public health, right? I’m in public health and mental health on the technology side.

So I was really kind of involved in that a little bit of a different way. And so, you know, that really facilitated, like, I think I do want to write another book. And that was kind of the basis of it. And I’m like, I want to tell my story from kind of college to today. Cause my last book, Sober is Better, was like, Kind of born to college.

So this one was college to today with some other things around just life in general. And so, I mean, key things about the book is it’s, you know, the fuck my demons, redefining normal, right? Normal, normal can be an anchor around everybody because you’re trying to compare yourself with a construct that is completely Not relative, right?

It’s a lot of times what you think is [00:55:00] normal is is really just It’s just wrapped in what’s going on with you, and maybe your immediate environment, um, and so I really wanted to make sure that people are like, your normal is you, right? Normal is the way that you wake up, and how you navigate your day, and if your normal is doing bad things, you know, because you’re, you’re just on a, on a path that you You know, might not end up well then that’s your normal, if you’re on a path of I gotta do the next right thing, and I’m working really hard to do that and I want to get healthier and, and be a better person, then that’s your normal, right?

So, and so I wanted to make sure that that word gets redefined because it very few things kind of send me. Into a bit of a bit of a, um, a bit of a tirade is probably the best way to put it. Like I, like my DNA is I’m, I’m pretty chill because of [00:56:00] recovery. Um, and, and I luckily have a wife who is an incredible balance.

Um, and we’re, you know, I’m glad you talked about it in your book. You guys are great communicators. We’re very good communicators. This is my second marriage. So I’m much better at it this time, um, in recovery, but we work on it, right? We work on the communication and, and not always perfectly, but you know, the thing about that is in the book.

Like I talk about, it’s just not as straightforward, right? You can’t, like, when you look at somebody, like, I don’t know what’s going on with you today, right? You’re doing, you’re doing what you need to do for this one hour with me and have this conversation, right? It’d make the experience good for me, right?

I don’t have a clue what’s going on with you. When I’m walking down the street or I’m interacting with people at a restaurant or A gas station or whatever. I don’t know what’s going on with them, right? So I can’t, so normal [00:57:00] again is just this weird thing that gets layered on stuff and I think makes people falsely feel good, falsely feel bad, like it’s false floors and ceilings all over the place.

Social media, I actually love social media because it’s fascinating. Um, but social media or, you know, watching way too much, you know, Fox or CNN or whatever, I have to take that in about five minute increments because I just am like, you know, there’s a lot of things that are out of my control that, you know, that is a narrative that kind of can, can take my day down.

Um, so I kind of limit that, right? So, but that’s about the book is really kind of finding your own, like finding your own path, right? And the other part is a journey to spirit, right? Because I do, I do absolutely believe, and this isn’t about being agnostic or atheist or some [00:58:00] formalized religion, it’s really about, spirit is about your relationship with the universe, right?

It can be very, you know, one dimensional, it can be very, you know, it can be multi dimensional, but it’s your place in the world Like the universe, that’s what I talk, when I talk about spirit specifically, I, I think I have a really good relationship with that and I’m very open to a lot of different things and I, I read and I, I educate myself and I’m staying curious.

So the big thing about the book is stay curious or be curious, right? Because that’s where I see people when they stop being curious and we’ve all met these people that they literally don’t ask one question about you. Right, you meet them and you’re like, wow, they literally had no interest in anything about me after that interaction, right? So be curious, stay curious. I mean, that’s really kind of the the big thing about the [00:59:00] book and don’t let normal nor Normal as a normal is a is a bullshit word. Normal is whatever you are doing today right now. That’s your normal

Scott DeLuzio: You know, I, I tend to agree with that. Um, uh, the, the normal, uh, comment that you just made there. Um, I know after my brother was killed, um, I kept hearing people talking about, uh, you’re going to discover a new normal and. I was like, well, normal is life with my brother with when he’s still alive. Like that’s normal.

Like this is an abnormal situation that this is. This is fucked. I don’t, I don’t want to, I don’t want to be in this situation. Right. Um, but I started to understand that normal is evolving. Um, normal is not just, uh, a static baseline that just [01:00:00] continues forever from here to the end of time. going to change based on a bunch of different variables.

Um, at one point I wasn’t a parent and I didn’t have anybody in the world that I needed to take care of. Yeah. Now I have three kids. I got to take care of all three of them. And, you know, at one point I wasn’t married and I didn’t have, well, now I am. So like, that’s, those things have changed. At one point I didn’t own a home and I didn’t have to worry about, you know, the lawn sprinklers that are, that sprung a leak or something and all the other repairs and that other crap that has to go along with owning a house.

Right. But now I do. And. Uh, so normal changes over time and, and there’s situations, there’s things that get injected into your life, whether it’s by your own doing or some external force does it, um, where now, now you have to, Figure out [01:01:00] how to deal with that. And I guess that’s maybe as normal as you can get is just learning to deal with the constant flow of ins and outs of goods and bads and, and things that are going to come into your life.

Things are going to leave your life and figuring out how to just. Handle those, um, and some are going to be a whole lot harder, you know, the loss of a loved one is going to be a lot harder than, uh, you know, I, I lost my keys or something, you know, like that it’s going to be a lot harder that way, but you still got to figure it out.

No matter how trivial or insignificant it may be, you still got to figure it out. Um, and so, you know, normal, uh, it is, it is a tricky word. Um, it, you know. It means a lot of different things to different people, I think, but the more I start to hear about it, more I think about the term itself, I start to think to myself, like, normal is not [01:02:00] Normal.

It’s not a normal word.

Bryan Wempen: Oh, it’s a big word, right? Like, you know, normal, it’s funny because normal could be safe, normal could be, um, satisfied with your life, normal could be, normal could be that nobody shot at me today, right? Normal could be that I, I got something to eat today, like, there’s a lot of, there’s a whole, Spectrum of what normal means to everybody.

And like you said, it moves, right? It moves up and down the line based on what are kind of where you’re at and what’s going on in your life. Right. And so

Scott DeLuzio: And I had recently, I had this kind of revelation in, in a therapy that I was in and it’s talking about all the tools that we learn throughout our lives. And, um, there’s stuff that you use every day. You, you learned at one point how to tie your shoes. So you use that [01:03:00] every day, you know, those are like basic everyday common things that you just, you use.

Um, there’s other stuff like, you know, uh, keeping your head on a swivel and scanning for IEDs or, you know, the, the enemy who’s hiding out in the bushes or, you know, things like that, those are things that you learned. How to do, but you don’t need to use those skills every day. Um, it’s not normal anyways, to have to use those types of skills every day until it is until that becomes the new normal, like, let’s just say in some, and I’m not tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists, uh, you know, any of that kind of thing right now, all I’m saying is let’s just say some. You know, enemy force invades the country. And now you do now that’s part of your daily life. Now you have to figure out how to get from A to B without getting blown up, without getting shot at, without all of these things. Well, that [01:04:00] has, It’s not normal right now, but it has become normal. And now you just have to figure out how to deal with that.

Um, and the analogy that I use was like a, a contractor or someone who they have their tool belt with all the tools that they pretty much use on a regular basis, their, their hammers and their, their drills and their screwdrivers, things along those lines that they use on a regular basis. But then they got their toolbox in the truck.

That’s got a ton of other tools that they may only. Use once or twice here and there, you know, uh, or, or a backup for something else, but they, they got their, their other stuff that they keep out there. Well, what happens when day after day, they’re going into work and it’s like, ah, I got to run back out to the truck and grow, go grab that, that thing that I didn’t keep on my tool belt.

Well, eventually it’s going to find its spot on it, on your tool belt. And then you’re going to just have it with you all the time until you don’t need it. As much [01:05:00] anymore. And then you go put it back out in the truck and that’s where it’ll live until you need it again. And so when we’re talking about normal, think about the tool belt.

What is it that you need to keep with you on a daily basis in order to navigate a quote unquote, a normal day? Um, and. And those are the things that, that make up the, the normal, that those other skills, the other tools and the other things that you’ve developed over the course of your lifetime and everyone’s going to be different.

Um, those other things that you have, but you don’t necessarily need on a daily basis. Those, those are the truck tools. Those are the things you keep out in the truck, right? Not on your tool belt.

Bryan Wempen: that’s a good, I really liked that analogy because it’s, you know, it’s again, it’s, I think everybody can, you know, for the most part, um, can, can identify with that, but it is a good point because like you said, you know, I, you know, growing up on a ranch, I can drive like every [01:06:00] type of machinery, like I drove trucks, like I can back trailers and I haven’t had to do that until you do.

Right. Like it might be. It could be, you know, 35 years later, the contractor somehow is struggling to back a trailer. And I’m like, Oh my God, get out of the way. And I back it in like, boom, boom, boom. Right. Cause I know how to do that. Like, there’s just some things that you just know how to do, but I don’t use it.

I have it. I use it once every 10 years and that’s about it. Right. But I, so I, I get this, this, you know, but it’s good, but I love the tool belt conversation because, or analogy. Because that is true, right? Like, you’ll use it, like, you know that it’s there, and you’ll use it when you need to use it, and you might start using it a lot for a while, so it’s on the tool belt, right?

You keep it very top of mind, it’s available, you work on it, um, and then at some point, you’re like, okay, that can just go back into the toolbox, because I, I need something else, or [01:07:00] maybe I just don’t need it. And so, but that’s, that’s a good, it’s a really, that’s a really, that’s a really solid analogy, but that’s the way it is, right?

That’s life, because every day is, you know, maybe not every day is different, but as you get into weeks and months, like, there’s different things that come up because of external issues. internal issues that you’re like dealing with something or something has you’ve remembered something. You’ve remembered something that you know, okay, I need to work on that because it’s good.

It’s impacting me on a day to day basis because it’s got the space, right?

Scott DeLuzio: That’s

Bryan Wempen: And so I got to unpack that and I’m ready to unpack it, right? Cause you got to be strong enough to unpack it and have a willingness. And then I unpack it and I start working on it, right? I talk about it. I figure out whatever it is, whatever your process is, and then hopefully you take the energy off that and it becomes less of a thing.

Right. And that’s how we, [01:08:00] that’s how we just progresses. That’s the human, that’s the human experience. And so that’s what makes life really interesting. If you, for me, I’m very focused on staying positive because my DNA is, I have a very negative backdrop. Like I know it’s always there. And I, you know, and I’ve got a temper and I got all this other stuff that most people have never seen because it just, it, it, It’s, my DNA doesn’t need to be how I behave, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Right, right. That’s right. Well, this conversation, I think has been, uh, for me anyways, very insightful. Um, hopefully for a lot of folks who are out there listening, it’s been helpful to hear your side of things and hopefully some of the things we talked about today have helped out a little bit. Um, before we wrap up this episode though, I always like to end with a little bit of humor.

I like to think of it kind of like having dessert. I’m at [01:09:00] the same time, uh, Selecting a podcast for this podcast. I’m at the same time and um, I want to be able to answer your questions. Again, I want to thank for this podcast is helpful to you, then please consider subscribing to my YouTube channel. and It usually gets a good laugh out of, uh, other, other veterans because, uh, we watch a video, a short video of, uh, service members and it may not always be American service members, but we can laugh and pretend as if it is, um, you know, but we can, we can look at them and say, uh, you know, whatever stupid thing it is that they did in this video.

Is it service connected? Are they getting that disability check for whatever stupid thing they did in that, that video? It’s kind of America’s Funniest Videos, uh, style type, type videos. So I’m going to share my screen real quick here with you so you can take a look at it, uh, as well, but let me get that up and running for you.

Um, so right now for the audio only listeners, right now we’ve got two soldiers, looks like they’re standing in front of a [01:10:00] bunch of sandbags with some Holes dug in the ground behind them. So that’s looking like a grenade range of some sort to me. Uh, let’s take a quick look at this video. I’ll hit play here in just a second.

Let’s take a look at this video and see what happens. So here we go. Okay. One soldier throws a grenade, but not over the wall. The other soldier grabs them, throws them into the pit as a grenade blows up. Just. I don’t know, what is that? Maybe 15, 20 feet away from where they were

Bryan Wempen: yeah, Max. Yeah. Oh.

Scott DeLuzio: um, yeah, they, they got lucky that, that, that, uh, instructor, it looks like the instructor anyways, was, uh, on point and grabbed them and just threw them into that, that hole, because that would That would have been a bad situation for both of them, um, if they did not do that.

But, um,

Bryan Wempen: god, that,

Scott DeLuzio: they got lucky there,

Bryan Wempen: yeah, that was, uh, we had something, we had [01:11:00] something, uh, happen, not exactly like that, of course, but it was a little bit different, but the instructors are there for a reason, right? They are, they are hyper vigilant on stupid shit. Because they know that it’s very possible. And so they’re always, literally, that’s why, you know, that’s why they will definitely grab people and be like, are you out of your mind?

Get your, you know, get your head out of your ass, man. You’re dealing with, you’re dealing with explosives here. So I can remember on the range when we qualified, like, there was, I think, one, one incident where somebody, like, just, and it was, I don’t even know if they weren’t paying, it wasn’t that they weren’t even paying attention.

It was just a mistake. It was a mistake. Right? That, that guy, that person did not intend that it was going to go backwards, so that was a really good one. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: No, but this, I’m taking a look at the video in the surrounding area and stuff. It’s not looking like it’s likely it’s an American, [01:12:00] uh, force here that we’re, we’re dealing with. And I got to imagine they’d probably have some sort of, Body armor, other than their helmets on, uh, to, uh, hopefully protect them somewhat if, if something did go wrong.

I know when we went through, we had, we had the, the full, uh, you know, our body armor helmets, we had the whole deal on, um, when we were doing, doing the, uh, grenades in basic training. But I also remember being kind of nervous when, when I’m standing there, I’m holding two grenades and. to throw them and not at the same time, but you know, like that was the, the qualification.

You had to throw two live grenades and I’m like, this is kind of nerve wracking. What if I screw up? You know, but, um, I could see that someone like this got, got a little. nervous and, um, perhaps not coming from a place that [01:13:00] put any sort of emphasis on throwing things when you’re younger. Um, you know, like think about baseball, like they’re pretty much the same size and shape as, as a hand grenade.

Um, and we got a whole. Slew of kids going out and playing baseball in their kids. And they, they know kids know how to throw things. So generally by the time you get to military age, you’re, you’re pretty proficient at throwing things at least enough distance away that it’s not going to blow up and kill you.

Um, this person looks like this is the first thing that they’ve ever thrown in their life, the way they were going through

Bryan Wempen: It definitely does. But you bring, you know, that hand eye coordination, right? It was like, that’s you. I saw, like, we saw people, we saw people that struggle and it took a little bit longer for things to click. Maybe they came from inner city, urban, whatever. And they’re like, they never had the opportunity to play sports in their entire life.

Right. And so that’s a, you bring up a, you bring up a good point. And just for the record, I don’t think body armor [01:14:00] was invented when I went through, so we definitely did not have that, by the way.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that’s true. And that was not, that’s something I can. Probably take for granted that we, we had, uh, available to us when we went through. But, um, you know, fortunately we didn’t have incidents like this from this video where, where there was anyone dropping her grenade or anything that needed to get thrown into, thrown in the pit to save their lives or anything like that.

But we did have instructors standing right next to us as we were throwing them just in case, um, and they, they would help us, you know, Um, if, if need be, they, they chew us out afterwards if we screwed up. I’m, I’m dead certain of, but, um, thankfully we didn’t have to have that happen. So anyways, Brian, thank you again for taking the time to come on, sharing, uh, your journey and your story, being vulnerable about your background, but also.

Um, you know, providing some practical steps for [01:15:00] other folks who might be in a similar situation, how they might be able to work their way out of it.

Bryan Wempen: No, I appreciate the opportunity to share about that. That’s the whole point. It’s, and I appreciate you, you know, you writing, you know, you writing your book and sharing the experience with, you know, you and, and your family and your service and appreciate, uh, you know, both, you know, both you and your brothers, you know, service and sacrifice and, and it was a, it was a really good, it’s really good book.

Books are, books are hard to write. And so, you know, I, I appreciate that, uh, on, on kind of a different level. And so just, and thanks for having me on. And if I get to Arizona anytime soon, I want to get you back on our golf course. And, uh, and that’d be a, that’d be a fun day.

Scott DeLuzio: That’ll be a fun day. I, I look forward to it. So, uh, yeah, definitely, definitely keep in touch and we, I’m sure we can make that happen. So thanks again for, uh, taking the time to come on and, uh, and we’ll, we’ll be in touch.

Bryan Wempen: good. Thank [01:16:00] you.

Scott DeLuzio: Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.