Episode 415 Jeremy Stalnecker Mighty Oaks Foundation’s Faith-Based Healing Transcript

This transcript is from episode 415 with guest Jeremy Stalnecker.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host Scott DeLuzio, and today my guest is Jeremy Stalnecker. Jeremy is a former Marine Corps infantry officer, author of several books, and the executive director of the Mighty Oaks Foundation, which is an organization dedicated to helping veterans overcome PTSD.

And today we’re gonna discuss Jeremy’s military background, his work. With the Mighty Oaks Foundation and how veterans can transfer their skills from the battlefield to everyday life. And so before we get started, Jeremy, welcome to the show. I’m really glad to have you here.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Thank you, man. I [00:01:00] appreciate the invitation. I’ve been looking forward to this for a while. So thank you.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I guess let’s just start a little bit about your background, uh, kind of your, your journey from the Marine Corps, any kind of interesting stories there that you might have, and then how you kind of got into the current role that you are in now, uh, with the Mighty Oaks Foundation.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah. So I’ll give you the abbreviated version. Um, I, uh, I grew up in a, in a pastor’s home. So a very conservative Christian home. And for a lot of reasons early on realized that was not the route that I wanted to take. I am a Christian, but not ministry, right? My dad, um, You know, worked so hard and did so many things and, and as much as I appreciated that and still do, that’s not what I wanted to be a part of.

And, and really felt like my life was pointed toward military service. The people in my life that I knew that had served in the military had all been Marines. And so for me, that was, that was the only thing that. Represented the military, right? You go into the military, you become a Marine. That’s all I knew, that’s all I understood.

And, uh, I didn’t realize [00:02:00] until much later that there are other services that people can go into. And so, at a pretty early age, I pointed my life toward military service. My parents only stipulation on me, um, when I told them I wanted to enlist in the Marine Corps, was that I go to college first. And, um, they had personal reasons for that and they helped me, you know, do that.

And so while I was in college, I was able to go through a commissioning program and was commissioned, um, as a second lieutenant, you know, when I graduated, which was, um, really for me at that time, the fulfillment of a lifelong dream and really felt like I was connected to something important. I was, uh, Sent to, after all of my initial training, my initial schools, uh, sent to 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, um, based out of Camp Pendleton here in Southern California.

Did a few deployments as a platoon commander. And then my final deployment was to Iraq in 2003, Kuwait really in 2003. Uh, January of 2003, we deployed there. And then March [00:03:00] 19th and 20th, we were the Marine Infantry Battalion that breached the berm between Kuwait and Iraq and went into the country and secured the first objective of the war.

Uh, first KIA of the war, Lieutenant Shane Childers was one of our lieutenants. Um, all of that happened in those first, you know, several hours. Made our way to Baghdad, uh, Battle of Baghdad on April 10th was also our battalion. And then, uh, things got quiet. And it was a, it was a weird time, um, coming out of the 90s and, you know, my exposure to military.

Uh, events or campaigns was, you know, Desert Storm and Somalia and some of these things that, that happened and were real, but they were in and out, right. It was very quick. And so when we, um, had our last engagement in Baghdad, the bullet stopped coming our direction. Really, I think most of us believed that it was over and, and, you know, even our president said, mission accomplished.

Right. And so, um, so I was at this place in my life where I could stay in and, and, you know, continue my career. But. [00:04:00] As sometimes happens, the one thing I had said I didn’t want to do was go into ministry and really felt like my life was pointing toward that. And so, uh, again, the abbreviated version came home from Iraq.

Um, a month later, I was out of the Marine Corps and working at a local church. Um, and I did that for a number of years. I ended up pastoring a church for a number of years. And in the process of all of that, and I say all of that to get to this, in the process of all of that, I really struggled leaving the Marine Corps, um, you know, in, in some pretty deep and.

Um, harmful ways and part of my ability to move forward, part of my healing process, if you will, I don’t love the phrase, but, but part of me moving forward in a positive way was walking away from the Marine Corps. I was thankful for my service. I was thankful for what I had done, but I didn’t stay connected to anyone and I couldn’t.

Um, Because I kept kind of going back there and that wasn’t healthy. And so I walked away from all of that 10 years later. So now I’m serving in ministry. I had been out of the Marine Corps for 10 years. [00:05:00] Uh, I was actually at a church up in the San Francisco Bay area. So, you know, not a haven for veterans.

And so I was, you know, I was completely out of that life. Right. Um, 10 years had passed. I had a Marine that I served with reach out to me and, uh, through social media, he said, Hey, you Um, I met this guy, he’s starting this thing called Mighty Oaks and he wants to work with veterans and, and, and help those of us who are coming back and struggling, get back on our feet.

And he will do a, a, uh, a session for us. He can’t get anyone to come. And so he said, if I could get some of our old Marines to attend, he would do a session for us. And, um, uh, would you be interested in coming? And so I did. And that was, again, the first time in 10 years I connected with those guys, but it was the first time ever I was confronted with the reality that, uh, my service didn’t end when I, you know, proverbially put the uniform in the closet for the last time.

My service wasn’t over. I thought it was, and I was always proud of what we had [00:06:00] done and how we came home from everything that we had been a part of. Um, but I started to hear stories of guys I served with. I mean, young men that were in my platoon. Taking their lives and broken families and all of the stuff we talk about now, right?

That we weren’t talking about in 2003 in those years and really had impressed on me just this, I don’t know, this overwhelming reality, I guess, that I still had a responsibility to those guys and, and in a sense, I’d walked away from them. I felt like at, at that moment, I felt like I had abandoned them and I had found my way forward, but I hadn’t taken anyone with me.

And so that was a turning point in my life. That’s when I, I met, you know, Chad Robichaux, who was founding Mighty Oaks at the time. Um, he, he asked me to, to come along and help him. And so we built that out and I’ve been a part of it since then. But really the catalyst for that was, uh, You did this thing, you came home, you fell on your face.[00:07:00]

Some people came into your life, some things happened that got you back up and moving. And now you need to turn around and help other people do the same. And, and, uh, really that’s the heart of, heart of what we do. So that’s the summary version. Right. But, um, that, that was, that was my path. And it’s funny how, you know, things come around full circle.

Um, now I feel like I’m doing some ministry and, and, and, uh, a lot of veteran work and, and kind of my past experiences I’ve kind of melded together.

Scott DeLuzio: is funny how you were saying, uh, that those are the things that you, you didn’t want to go back

Jeremy Stalnecker: Right. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Scott DeLuzio: going right back to it. Um, you know, life has a funny way of, of just throwing you those, those curve balls that. You’re like, I, I know what I need. I know what I I’m going to do in life is like, Nope,

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yep, you’re doing something else, right? Yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: We got a totally different plan for you and I don’t really care what you think it is. So,

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah, that’s

Scott DeLuzio: um, you know, but, but, but it’s. You know, that that’s life. I mean, life changes. [00:08:00] Uh, you might have your, your plan, your, your five year plan, your 10 year plan, your vision of what you see for your future. Um, you might’ve seen a, you know, a career in the Marine Corps going on, you know, 20, 30 years or something like that.

But you know, like life throws curve balls and you, and you decided that it was time to walk away. That’s, that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. You can pivot from things. It’s not like you failed as a, as a Marine. You did your service. You, you did your job. There was no failure there at all. There’s, you should be a hundred percent proud of everything that you did.

Um, It’s just at that point in time, you’re like, you know what? This isn’t, this isn’t for me anymore. Um,

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah. It’s funny when I, when I talk about resiliency, one of the principles that I share is that, you know, I’ll say it this way, success in any area of life is directly connected to how well you handle change. Right. And I believe that I think you will be successful if you can handle change because change is a big part of life and we fight against it.

But the reality is before a fight, before a [00:09:00] battle, before, you know, things come your way, you make the best decisions you can with the information that you have, that’s just true, right? And so when we regret these decisions, we made with the best information that we had, it’s, it’s kind of ridiculous because you did the best you could with what you knew at the time. But, in the middle of the fight, the enemy gets a say, and we talk about that in, you know, in a combat environment, the enemy gets to help determine how that battle unfolds, and so, you may have made the best decisions you could with the information you had, but as the battle unfolded, as life unfolds, now you have to adjust to new information, and, and, and, You know, I have dealt with regret at periods in my life, but you just have to settle there.

No, I’m doing the best I could. You know, there were a lot of reasons for me to leave the Marine Corps. One, I had a wife and two little kids. Um, things were changing in my life. Things were changing for them. And people, you know, do well with families in the military. But, um, my, my focus was changing. My interests were changing.

There were a lot of things changing in the midst of kind of that battle [00:10:00] of life. And, and yeah, you have to adjust to that. And I. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, if you refuse to adjust, um, that’s more dangerous than, than not recognizing the reality you’re currently in.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I like how you make that analogy between, you know, life in a battle, like in, in the military where you might have a plan, but yeah, things are going to change and you’re going to have to adjust. And when you said that success, uh, you know, requires, uh, requires you to, uh, You know, adapt to the changes that are coming your way.

I mean, success in and of itself is a change. You went from a status of not being a success in whatever that thing is, if accomplishing the mission, uh, for example, uh, well, there’s a change in there, like something changed to make you successful. So, um, you know, that’s a, I love those analogies that you, you put out there.

Um, Now, going back to Mighty Oaks, uh, you know, the, the work there focuses a lot on, uh, leadership, [00:11:00] decisional, discipleship, um, can you talk about these things and kind of talk about how that helps people in their, their transition and, and their kind of dealing with some of the stuff that you dealt with, um, and getting back into civilian life and, and succeeding.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah. When we talk about leadership, I think we, we misunderstand what it is sometimes. And, and honestly. I believe that many of the struggles that veterans have transitioning out of the military, some of those, many of those are connected to trauma and you know, we could talk all day about the physiological and psychological and emotional impacts of trauma for sure, absolutely.

But I think one of the major struggles that veterans have and one we don’t talk about enough is, is the transition from a, a role. A life of, of meaning and purpose and clarity. You, you know where you fit, you have a rank, you know what your job is. It’s [00:12:00] very specific. You have an MOS, right? It’s, it’s on, it’s on your paperwork somewhere.

This is what you do. This is the school you went to, to learn how to do that. You fall within a very, uh, strict and structured hierarchy. Uh, you know, who’s in charge, you know, who’s not in charge, you know, where you fall in, in all of that. And so. Our identity becomes so closely aligned to the uniform and the job and the rank and, and all of those things that when we walk away from that, it could be after 30 years, it could be after, you know, one enlistment, it doesn’t matter when you walk away from that, you can, if you’re not careful, lose who you are. You, you, you no longer can identify yourself by the uniform or the rank or the job. And what we do sometimes is we say, well, I was a leader then. I’m not a leader now. And what we try to communicate and what I try to communicate is that leadership is, is not a job. Um, there are different ways to do [00:13:00] leadership and different roles and different stages of life and all those things will require different ways of doing leadership in the military.

We talk about those tactics, techniques, and procedures. There are ways to do leadership in specific roles, but a leader is someone that fundamentally understands. Their, their role. Is to help people in their lives go from where they are to where they need to be. Their role as a leader has nothing to do with a job title or a rank or a uniform.

To be a leader means that you are using what you have. You’re leveraging the resources that you’ve been given, the time, the opportunities, you know, the gifts, the talents for the benefit of other people. And you’re pouring into other people and you’re helping them move along the line to where they need to be.

And when we stop. Looking at leadership as something to be done and instead start thinking about leadership in terms of who I am. I am a leader. I’m not doing leadership. Well, that changes everything. [00:14:00] We get stuck sometimes transitioning out of the military. And this is, this is any transition in life, not just military transition, but, but we get stuck because we think, well, I could do that over there.

I understood that leadership over there, but what do I do here? Well, someone who does it well understands that being a leader in uniform. It requires the same understanding of leadership as being a leader in the home and being a leader in a new job and being a leader in whatever environment they find themselves in.

And so we talk a lot about that. Now we deal with a lot of things in our program, but one of the strong encouragements that we give, I’ll say it that way, to the men and women who attend our programs is this. The world needs you. Our country needs you. Your families need you. You’ve learned how to lead. You need to stand up and lead where you are.

But it’s reframing that conversation around what leadership actually is.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Because like you said, it, leadership is not a job.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Right. That’s right.

Scott DeLuzio: it, [00:15:00] and we think of it that way in the military where you, you have, you know, your, your squad leaders in charge of the squad. And then the, you know, the platoon sergeant is in charge of the platoon and they’re leading and they’re, they’re, they’re moving the pieces around the. Game of war, I guess, if you, if you want to think of it that way. Um, but they’re, they’re the ones who are in charge. They’re, they’re giving the instructions and direction and things like that. But anybody can be a leader. Um, anybody throughout, even in the military, throughout the whole change chain of command.

Um, you know, everyone down to the lowest ranking private can, can be a leader. Um, they just, they need to kind of just have that mindset. Uh, that, that, that you were describing there. So, um, so that’s, you know, in interesting points that you, you bring out there. Um,

Jeremy Stalnecker: argue, I would argue just to your point that, It’s not necessarily that everyone can be a leader. I believe everyone is a [00:16:00] leader.

Scott DeLuzio: sure. Yeah.

Jeremy Stalnecker: may be, you may be leading one person. You may be leading, you know, a military unit or a company. It doesn’t matter. And that’s, that’s the mindset shift is I am a leader.

I have gifts, talents, abilities, and opportunities. And I need to figure out how best to use those for the people in my life. That may be one person that may be a lot of people, but whatever that is, when that shift is made, that’s, that’s when you’re doing leadership. And I think that’s, you know, fundamentally important to get a hold of.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, and it’s also, you, you mentioned people you know in your life that, you know, leading, leading those types of people, but it’s even people who, uh, you don’t even know these people, maybe that you might see someone. Somewhere who, uh, maybe there’s a car accident or something, you know, and it’s like, okay, well, let’s, let’s figure out how to help these people until, you know, the paramedics and, you know, police or whoever arrived, let’s do what we can to help them.

And, and maybe that’s instructing other people, Hey, go, you know, you call the police, you, you know, help you take [00:17:00] this person out of the car, you know, whatever the issue is, um, you, you kind of just take charge of the situation and, and help. These people, instead of just like, well, that’s not my problem,

Jeremy Stalnecker: That’s not my job. Right? Yeah, exactly.

Scott DeLuzio: not my job.

Not my problem. Right. Um, and so, yeah, it’s, it’s that mindset is, is that, you know, everybody can do something to help other people, uh, in their lives. And I suppose in that case, that person is in your life because you’re there. It’s not a family member or something like that, but it’s just someone who’s there.

And you, you. I gotta do something to help that, that person.

Jeremy Stalnecker: That’s exactly right.

Scott DeLuzio: uh, so we had, uh, we talked earlier, before we started recording, we had, uh, Brandon Betis on the show, uh, back in episode 2 47. It’s about a year and a half ago, uh, when that episode came out. And he talked about Mighty Oaks, uh, how it helped him personally.

And it was a great conversation. Uh, encouraged the listeners to go back and listen to that one after this episode to find out more about Mighty Oaks if you’re interested. But, [00:18:00] um, can you share. How you guys help veterans transfer their skills from the battlefield to everyday life and, and the types of things that you do there.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Sure. A lot of it is, is getting to the point where, um, men and women who are struggling make a decision to move forward in their lives and, and you know, this is a common struggle I think with veterans. It’s possible to go to work. It’s possible to have a family and do all of those things, but still not really be moving forward.

We can then point back to trauma or something that happened in our past that is the reason what we have to do on the other side of that, regardless of what happened in your past, is make a decision that I’m going to move forward. So we have, um, a lot of different things that we do, but the core programming that we have is what we call the Legacy Program.

It’s a week long program. Program. We have men’s programs and women’s programs. Um, I always pause here, right? Like men are more honest when women aren’t around and women, I think, are more honest when men aren’t [00:19:00] around. So we divide that down, right? Like it’s not a sexist thing. It just, it makes sense. And, um, it’s, it’s an opportunity for us to bring those groups of folks together.

They spend a week with us. We have, uh, ranches across the country and they’ll spend a week. And we talk about. Trauma. We talk about, you know, all of those things, whether it was related to military service, often it’s related not to military service, but just to life. We talk about that, the reality of that and the impact that those things have on our lives.

But, but what we really focus on throughout the week is how we can move forward. We’re a faith based organization. And so for us moving forward means understanding that. God has a plan for your life, regardless of what’s happened in your past. And you can move into that. And the trauma is the difficulties of your life.

They don’t go away, but they no longer have you bound. You can move forward in spite of those things. In fact, you can grow and be more effective or helpful to other people because of what you’ve been through. But you have to understand there is still a [00:20:00] purpose. There is still a plan and you move forward into that.

What’s unique, I think, about what we do, our approach is a little bit unique. It’s not clinical. But what is really unique about what we do is that everyone who teaches classes and everyone who is a part of the leadership of that week started as a student. They all came through as a student because they needed, you know, help or encouragement or whatever.

And, and then they came into kind of our leadership training process, which takes about a year. So when they’re standing in front of a class, they’re not saying, um, I think you should do this, or I read a book and this is what it says you should do. It’s not that clinical kind of top down approach. It’s very much a, I know where you are because I’ve been there.

I’ve struggled the same way that you’ve struggled. I’ve sat in the same seat you’re sitting in. I don’t have it all figured out, but I have started to move forward and I want to help you do the same. It’s very much telling your story and then talking about how the content that’s being communicated, uh, impacted.

You know, that story, [00:21:00] you were here, but now you’re moving a different direction. Why is that? And so that is a peer to peer, um, very, very much like we would do in the military, um, approach and then everyone in the room, all of the students are either veterans, active duty service members or first responders.

So a lot of that, you know, those walls we put up and that facade we like to hide behind, it just falls down. It goes away because you’re around people who get it. And, um, man, it’s powerful because. You realize, I think, hopefully, and the goal is, you realize I can move forward. There is still more for me to do.

I was a leader over there, but I can still be a leader here. I can be a leader in my home and, and, um, man, there’s a lot to it. But, but fundamentally that’s what we do is just say, look, we’re moving forward. We’ve struggled as well. We want to help you get there. And you can, if you’ll make a decision to take that next step.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And. One thing that I’ve just noticed through doing this show over [00:22:00] 400 episodes now that I’ve done on this show, talking to hundreds of veterans, um, is that like you and I, before we started recording this episode, or, you know, uh, not even before we started recording, but before, uh, before all of that, we, we didn’t know each other.

We weren’t You know, introduced in person or, you know, anything like that. And we’re sitting here, two veterans having a conversation about, you know, Mighty Oaks and helping other veterans and things like that. And, uh, we found some common ground, you know, veterans being that, that common ground, right. And I’m sure there’s other things.

If we got into a deeper conversation, there might be other things, other hobbies or other activities that, Are common. Maybe between the two of us, there might not be, uh, there, we, we might have nothing else in common other than veterans , but that’s okay. Um, but you gotta think about it. Like, if you’re in a room full of people and you’re like, I don’t know anybody here, I’m, this is awkward.

This is, this is just strange. [00:23:00] Everybody in that room is a veteran. You have that at least in common to start the conversation and then, you know. Hey, you know, maybe, maybe you’re, you’re into golfing or you’re into, you know, artwork or, you know, something, there’s something else that you’re into and you start to form these connections, right?

But, uh, it’s, you got that easy in when, you know, everybody there is a veteran

Jeremy Stalnecker: It, it’s crazy, it’s crazy, man. Like, so to that point, I’m sorry, I interrupted you all the

Scott DeLuzio: No, no, no. You’re

Jeremy Stalnecker: veterans do. You’re talking about veterans, like they’re all obnoxious, right? Um, no, but it made me think of, so, you know, when people think about a program like ours, they think about, uh, Operation Iraqi Freedom.

And so all the guys were in Iraq, guys were in Afghanistan. That’s, that’s who you, you work with, right? Well, that, that is true, but we also have Desert Storm veterans. That’s a little closer, but we have had a number of Vietnam veterans, even a Korean war veteran come to our program. And it’s crazy because, you know, these guys are.

Um, a [00:24:00] Korean War veteran who attended our program was in his 80s. Vietnam veterans are, you know, now 60s and up, and they’re all very hesitant about coming. Then they come to the program and it takes about 10 minutes before they realize like there’s an age gap. Our kind of shared experience of the military, even though we’re very different wars and very different times, that veteran thing, it, it bonds.

Immediately, and I’ve seen it happen again and again and again. And it, your veterans get this. It transcends, it transcends time. It transcends station in life. You mentioned a guy like Brandon Bettis, who you’ve had on the show. And we talked about Brandon is like a, a pretty high capacity money manager.

Like he’s a very professional. You know, kind of corporate guy, right? That very, um, very professional people would go to for advice and that, but he’s a veteran and he connects on that level. And it’s, it’s the craziest [00:25:00] thing in the world to see that happen, um, because of what you just mentioned. Yeah. It’s, it’s so unique and it’s so hard to explain to people that, that haven’t been a part of that.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and, and to that point, like, I don’t care what your, your current occupation, current career field is, you know, you know, someone like Brandon, who’s more kind of in the corporate world, someone else who might be, picks anything else that’s not, you know, a corporate type thing, you know, a landscaper or, uh, you know, something, you know, that type of thing.

Um, you get those two people, those two veterans together, uh, And none of that other stuff matters. Like, I don’t, I don’t really care. Like let’s, yeah, I mean, great. You got it. You got a good job. Cool. And you’re happy with your job. Awesome. That that’s, those are good things, but let, you know, talk about, you know, let’s share some more stories and that maybe not even that, but let’s, let’s just, you know, we have that shared experience and we can, we can talk about it and like you said, Like that first 10 minutes might be awkward a little bit.

Like if you can get over 10 minutes, like, come [00:26:00] on, that’s not that big of a deal. If you can get over 10 minutes, like the rest of the week is going to be a blast. Right. You’re, I’m not saying it’s a party time or anything like that, but you’re going to have a good time talking to those people

Jeremy Stalnecker: That’s

Scott DeLuzio: it’s going to, it’s going to start feeling good getting some of the stuff off your chest that you might’ve been carrying around for all these years, not telling to anybody.

Um, and, and you start, start opening it up and getting some of that out. Wow. I actually can talk about these things. So.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah, yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: cool.

Jeremy Stalnecker: that’s exactly right. Yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: to go. Right. Um, but, but that fear, that initial fear of, uh, you know, maybe I don’t know anybody there or I, people are gonna think I’m nuts for, you know, sharing these kinds of things.

And there’s some hesitation there with that fear. Um, and it could be paralyzing for a lot of people where they, they, they’re like, you know, I, I know this sounds like a great program. It might do wonders, but I ain’t going that type of thing. Uh, what, what might you say to those types of people who might have to overcome those types of challenges?

Because [00:27:00] maybe they don’t want to share that type of thing, uh, with, with a group of people.

Jeremy Stalnecker: I actually just had this conversation this week with someone who’s, he’s going to be attending our program. Uh, we have a relationship, but he’s going to be attending our program in a couple months. And he said, basically that is, I’m, I’m afraid that when I get there, I’m going to shut down. I’m going to be very apprehensive and all those things.

And, and, and I, you know, I told him, I said, That’s normal. Everyone who shows up has some apprehension and everyone who shows up, you know, is that way to start. And so don’t feel bad about that. First of all, don’t feel bad about how you feel, how you feel is normal. It, it makes sense. You’re going into this environment where you don’t know anyone.

Maybe you’re all veterans, but you don’t know anyone. You know that you’re probably going to have to talk about some things that are uncomfortable, maybe even things that you’ve been avoiding for a long time. And so it’s, it’s very normal to have that apprehension, but you have to look at your life and ask the question, is what [00:28:00] I’m doing currently working?

Am I, you know, the best I can be? Am I, you know, the best. Human person, I can be the best husband or wife or father or mother or, you know, whatever in those relationships. Am I, am I the best I can be? And if the answer is no, then you have to understand apprehension and fear even as normal. But I need to move forward in spite of those things. that I can be fully what, you know, I would say what God created me to be so I can fully live that out. And so it is a very scary thing. But one of the things we’ve tried to do over, you know, many years of doing this, we don’t charge anything for our program. So there’s no financial output. Our locations are across the country, but if you don’t live near one, we’ll pay to get you there.

Maybe that means flying you there or whatever. Just had a conversation this morning with, uh, our programs team. We’re flying 32 people into Ohio next week, right? So, so we want to remove that obstacle. So you don’t have to worry about the financial [00:29:00] obstacle. All of the logistics are done for you. You’ll be contacted and managed in that sense.

Here’s your flight. Here’s, who’s going to pick you up. This is where you need to be when we take care of all of that. All of the food, all of those, you know, kind of creature comforts, all of that’s taken care of for you. So literally all you have to do. And that doesn’t take the fear away, but we do everything we can to remove every possible obstacle so that you can get the help that you need and, and understanding that thousands of other people, just like you have been through the same process.

Um, there’s no magic pill, but it really is, is looking at your life and saying, I can do better than this. And if there’s an opportunity for me to do better, I can give up five days of my life to figure this thing out.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. And, and if it helps at all, uh, from, if I recall the conversation I had with Brandon, uh, the food is absolutely amazing.

Jeremy Stalnecker: the food is great. The locations are great. I mean, it’s again, we do everything we possibly can go on our website and you can see pictures and videos of those things, [00:30:00] but we do everything we possibly can to make it as comfortable. And as I mean, really amazing as, as it possibly can be. Now there are you.

Hard things we’re going to talk about. And, um, you know, we want to help you, but again, you’re being helped by people who were students not that long ago, who are helping you walk this out. There aren’t doctors, maybe someone is a doctor, but we don’t have doctors on staff and it’s not that right. It’s, it’s, Hey, we get it.

Let’s help each other. And we’re in a beautiful environment. The food is amazing. And, and, uh, we have a good time too.

Scott DeLuzio: The way you describe it with, with the, the, uh, teachers, the instructors, um, who were students at one point, and they’re, they’re helping bring those other people out from wherever they are to get them up to, uh, you know, a better place. And the, the vision that I have, I always like try to make these mental analogies whenever someone’s talking about stuff like that.

I have this picture of like two guys climbing a mountain and there’s one guy who’s going up ahead and. [00:31:00] He doesn’t know exactly what rocks are good to grab onto or, you know, where to put his feet and all that. The guy below is able to take a look and be like, okay, well, he grabbed onto that rock. That seemed like it worked pretty good.

So let me, let me do that same thing. And, and that way I can move, move up in that same direction, going, going into a better place. And so that, that’s kind of just the analogy that I had. But when, when you have people who are, um, Facing those, those challenges. And they, they feel like they’re facing them alone.

Nobody else understands me. It’s super important to have somebody else there who has gone through that maybe just a year ago or so, you know, and they, it’s fresh. They know what, what you are going through. So it’s not like you’re, you’re just talking to somebody who is. You know, talking out of a textbook of, yeah, this is what you should be feeling right now.

It’s like, well, all right, great. But I don’t, you know, so, so that, that’s a good approach. I like how you guys are [00:32:00] approaching this right now, outside of, uh, that kind of fear and hesitation that, that we were talking about before, um, Uh, other challenges that they face, uh, not, not just in getting to, uh, the program, but just in general transitioning to civilian life.

Um, you know, what are some of those challenges that you see, uh, people dealing with and, and how, how is it that you’re helping to address these?

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah. One, one of the, one of the big, I would say, misunderstandings in the veteran community about post-traumatic stress and trauma and all those things, is that the trauma that I’ve experienced is the reason my life is the way it is right now. So, I’m struggling with addiction. Every relationship that I’ve been in has fallen apart.

My kids hate me, you know, I can’t keep a job, all those things. And, and the, the easy answer to all of that is, well, it’s because of what happened to me. And so [00:33:00] there’s no acceptance of responsibility. And, you know, I’ll say it this way, there may be reasons for the way you’re behaving, the way you are, reasons, but there is never an excuse for bad behavior. There may be reasons. But there aren’t good excuses. What we have seen over and over again is that the trauma led to some bad decisions. Maybe those decisions were to medicate away how you feel. Maybe they were to get involved in, you know, illicit relationships or whatever. The trauma caused you to start making bad decisions that led to where you are right now. And so what we have to do is, is first of all, acknowledge that. Accept responsibility for the parts that we can be responsible for. Again, that doesn’t diminish the pain or the, you know, the challenges of, uh, these, you know, very traumatic events. Many of the people who attend our program, they’re not dealing with combat trauma, but they’re dealing with maybe childhood trauma or something else that’s happened in their lives.

And so wherever that trauma [00:34:00] comes from, we would never diminish those experiences. They’re very real and they’re real to you. But what we want to communicate is they don’t have to control you If you’ll accept responsibility and then begin to move forward. And so we do our best to create a framework and provide tools to help the student make good decisions.

Um, identify the problems, identify the feelings, identify the places that you might put yourself in that you, you get out of control or whatever, and, and have the tools you need to make the right decisions in spite of what has happened in your past. And when people get ahold of that. I’m responsible for how I behave. And if I’m responsible, then I can make different decisions. And I surround myself with people who can help me make those decisions. Then you can really move forward in a powerful way. What we do is not complicated. It’s, it’s pretty basic really. Um, [00:35:00] but it, it is sometimes profound to a person who’s like down in the hole, right?

Like, how do I get out of this hole? Well, identify that you’re in a hole, um, take responsibility for getting yourself out of the hole. And then other people will come along, let them help you. Pull you up out of that hole. And I think, man, just, just that changes lives.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah. And if using that analogy of being in a hole, if you keep digging, that hole is just going to keep

Jeremy Stalnecker: right, right,

Scott DeLuzio: It’s going to be harder to get out of that hole. Right. And, and so, you know, to your point, if that trauma, uh, is. Is causing you to, uh, make the decision to, to drink yourself into a stupor all the time.

And that’s, that’s the decision that you’re making because maybe it’s numbing the pain and it’s, you know, whatever the reasons are for it, um, you are making that decision. And so like that, you’re kind of putting on yourself, [00:36:00] like you’re, you’re making, you’re digging that hole at that point when you’re continuing to drink and that’s going to affect your, your relationships.

It’s going to affect your job. It’s going to affect all these other things. And like, that’s kind of on you. Um, it’s, it’s how you deal with the trauma, uh, that, that happened and, and making those decisions, those bad decisions, um, is, is, is, is, is, is, Is not the right way to go. So, so that’s what you guys are, are, are teaching.

There is, is how to deal with that. And you’re right. It’s not super complicated. Um, but a lot of times we get in our own way when we are dealing with these things and you might need somebody to just say, Hey, you know, Hey dummy, come on, don’t do

Jeremy Stalnecker: yeah, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: know, maybe in a little nicer way than that, but

Jeremy Stalnecker: No, well, and maybe not even nicer, right? Like sometimes you just have to

Scott DeLuzio: might need it.

Jeremy Stalnecker: look, man, like. You’re the problem. Now, I get that there are things that have happened in your life. Things have happened in all of our lives, right? But, but you need to figure out how to move forward.

And people ask me this a lot. [00:37:00] Um, if you had one message for, you know, for a veteran who’s struggling, what would it be? And my answer is always the same. There is hope. There is always hope. This is not a, a death sentence. That’s why I don’t like the term post traumatic stress disorder, right? I’ll talk about post traumatic stress.

That’s real. You know, we can talk about that all day. If you’re disordered, then you’re broken. You’re not broken, man. Like there is a path forward, but you have to make the decision to take the next step. Don’t do it alone. There are so many resources available. If you’re willing to grab hold of those, there are people that have dedicated their lives to helping you.

There are shows like this one that bring on people to talk about this all the time, right? Like we are not in a place. In 2003, when I came home from Iraq, no one was talking about post traumatic stress or combat trauma or any of these issues. And part of the reason I think I fell on my face was because people looked at me and went, what’s wrong with you?

Right? Like, well, this thing. Yeah. Why? I don’t understand how that’s connected. Right? Well, well, that’s not the case [00:38:00] anymore. We’re, you know, 20 years removed from that. We have so much help available, but on some level, You have to make the decision not to get better, not to fix yourself, but to take the next step.

Just take the next step. I can’t decide that for you, but if you’ll take the next step, there are so many people, organizations, resources available to help you do that. And, uh, that to me is, that’s the message, right? We would, we just want to help you. We’re not asking anything from you, but you have to decide that where you are is not okay anymore.

And you want to move to a better place.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And bringing it back to the military, like going out on a mission, you’re, you know, assaulting an objective, uh, same idea. Um, what happened happened. So if, if things go haywire and, and they always do, right. They seem fine.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: if you’re, if you’re out on a mission, things go wrong. You don’t just keep doing what you were doing

Jeremy Stalnecker: Right, right, right,

Scott DeLuzio: You, [00:39:00] you shift and you make a change and you do something different, um, you know, to, to make sure that whatever went wrong, doesn’t keep going wrong. Um, you know, it would be stupid if it was like. Gunfire coming right at you. And it’s like, well, I’m just going because, well, that’s what we planned on. You know, that just doesn’t make sense.

So when, when you are doing this in your own, your own life and you’re just. You know, I’m just going to keep doing what I was doing. Well, that that’s kind of insane. If you’re, if you’re going to do the same thing over and over again and expect it to just magically get better, well, it’s not, um, I, I say that coming from a place where I was that person too.

I kept doing the same thing over and over again, thinking it’ll get better. It’ll okay. Time will make things better. Time doesn’t always make things better. It, as a matter of fact, it probably rarely makes things better. And in my case, anyways, I just kept going, doing the [00:40:00] wrong thing, doing the wrong thing consistently until I finally realized I don’t like this person.

I don’t know how anyone else could like this person. This person

Jeremy Stalnecker: Right. Right.

Scott DeLuzio: I need to fix this because I don’t want to be this kind of husband. I don’t want to be this kind of father. I don’t want to be this kind of neighbor, coworker, name the

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: relationship. I don’t want to be this kind of person to the people who are around me.

Um, and I need to make a change. So I did something and I, I made a change and I got the help that I needed. And, you know, it comes in, like you said, it comes in so many different varieties. Um, you, you don’t have, um, Enough days left in your life to go through every single one of the options that are out there available.

Like you can, there are so many options, uh, and. It’s like, just keep trying, keep moving forward. If that thing that you tried doesn’t work, okay, well, [00:41:00] just like in a mission, if you’re assaulting an objective and, and okay, something went wrong, we got to change. Okay, well that thing’s not working. Okay, well let’s, let’s do something else.

Let’s keep trying until we have achieved the objective and, and find that success and success. Like you said before, it requires changes and changes are not always easy. Okay.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah. Yeah. Itwe have awe have a saying we use all the time and you, you just You basically said it, if what you’re doing isn’t working, why not try something different? And again, it’s like a silly question, but it’s so fundamental. I just keep doing the same thing. Every time I drink, this bad thing happens.

Every time I go here, this bad thing happens. I just keep going and going. I don’t know why. And it’s my trauma. No, dummy. It’s because you’re doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting something different to happen. You know, again, I don’t want to diminish people’s pain and trauma and difficulty.

At some level. You have to [00:42:00] be responsible for the next thing. There’s a great book. Um, you’re probably familiar with it. It’s called Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. you know Viktor Frankl, but, uh, incredible book, incredible story. He was a psychiatrist, um, and a Jewish psychiatrist during World War II.

He was interred in a concentration camp for, I think over four years. His wife and unborn child went to a different concentration camp. They were both killed. But over the course of his time, he. You know, as a psychiatrist is evaluating people, right? He was young at the time, but he’s evaluating people. And he asked the question, why is it that some people in this environment, they, they do fine.

You know, they’re not doing great, but they’re, they do fine. And then other people, it’s almost like they’re heartbroken or heart sick, right? Just being here kills them. They don’t thrive well. He said so many wonderful things in this book. Um, but, but he makes this statement that the last of the human freedoms is the power to decide, right?

And he says between stimulus and response. [00:43:00] There is space and in that space is the power to decide. He talks about deciding, you know, often, and this is kind of the fundamentally his, his process, which he talks about later in the book for helping people. Um, and, and, and, and again, I’m not saying that everything is about making a decision.

People push back on this sometimes, but, but literally between stimulus, that’s what happens to you and your response to what happens to you. There is space. And in that space is when you get to decide, am I going to walk away? Am I going to lean in? Am I going to, what am I going to do here? And if what you’ve been doing, that decision you’ve been making in that space is, is taking you or has taken you down a bad path, make a different decision.

And maybe that different decision is reaching out to someone. Maybe that different decision is going to a different place. Maybe. I don’t know, there are a thousand different scenarios, but, um, you have the power to decide and that can change everything. And again, it’s not power of positive thinking and if you decide and no, it’s just do something different and let people [00:44:00] help you.

Um, so I’m

Scott DeLuzio: and often.

Jeremy Stalnecker: my soapbox here a little bit, but man,

Scott DeLuzio: No, I,

Jeremy Stalnecker: in that.

Scott DeLuzio: I, I like that, that, um, that you brought that up because, um, oftentimes the decision that you have to make is the uncomfortable one. The thing that,

Jeremy Stalnecker: Right? Most of the time.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, to, to get the success that you are missing, you oftentimes have to do the uncomfortable thing. And why is that? Um, and, and why you might feel like, Hey, I’m not seeing any success.

Well, just human nature. We’re kind of drawn towards the easier stuff. Like if we, you know, if, If it’s a little bit easier, like I I’d rather choose that, you know, that’s why we live in homes with air conditioning and, you know, we, you know, electricity and all these things, it’s easier to have electricity and then figure out how to start a fire and, you know, read by the candlelight and, and that type of thing.

So just by human nature, we want the things that are a little bit [00:45:00] easier and, and comfortable. Um, and so. Maybe if there’s a change that needs to happen, we got to do the uncomfortable thing. Um, and sometimes that’s going to a group of people and talking about the issues that are, that you’re dealing with.

God, that sounds thinking back to when I was having the problems that I was having, if going back and thinking about just talking to someone about this, are you crazy? No way. You know, that was, that was my mentality. Um, But it was like, as soon as I started talking, I was like, why is this feeling lighter on my shoulders?

You know, like, why, why are things. Seemingly getting better. And like, what’s, what’s going on? Like, I, I, I’m not getting angry all the time. I’m not drinking the way I used to, you know, all these things are, I don’t know, getting better. It’s like, okay, well, maybe that was the thing I needed to do, despite the fact that it was super uncomfortable, you know, and, [00:46:00] and that’s, that’s, that’s.

Uh, you know, great, great points that you bring up there. Um, now I know there’s going to be some listeners who are interested either in, uh, getting involved with Mighty Oaks themselves because, you know, they’re a veteran, they’re going through some stuff and they want to get involved. Or there might be a family member there who is listening because they know their, their family member or their loved one, whoever it is, uh, is struggling, they’re not getting the help that they need.

They don’t know where to go or how to find it, that, that type of thing. Um, And so where can people, uh, whether it’s for themselves or a family member, uh, where can they go to get involved with Mighty Oaks and find out more about the programs that you have to offer?

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah. The very best place is just go to our website, MightyOaksPrograms. org, MightyOaksPrograms. org. And there, probably the most prominent thing that you can do there is apply for a program. And again, there’s no cost to the program. We’ll get you where you need to go. You just need to [00:47:00] apply. And so that is there.

So if you need. To apply, you need to get into the program, please do that and we’ll work out everything else.

Scott DeLuzio: Excellent.

Jeremy Stalnecker: If you want to support financially, the way that we’re able to do what we do is because people support us financially. You can do that there as well, but there are also other resources. We have video resources and, um, three books, uh, available for download.

One on post traumatic stress, one on, uh, suicide. And one on, uh, resiliency. So what it means to be resilient. Those books are all there for free download. So a ton of, of information and resources available just on our website, MightyOaksPrograms. org.

Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. Excellent. And I’ll have links to all of that on the, uh, website. Um, and so folks can, uh, check it out there. For the. Maybe the family members, uh, who are listening to this right now, they don’t know what to do. They, they know they’re, they have a loved one who is struggling. My advice to them, um, is to [00:48:00] encourage them to check this out.

You know, send them the link to The Mighty Oaks, or, uh, you know, like you said, there’s some, some, uh, reading material available on the website, you know, download those and send them to them and say, Hey, look, this is, this might be the thing that you need to, to help. And sometimes just having that little bit of encouragement from, you know, A loved one might be the thing that you need to kind of push you in that right direction.

And I, and I’m not saying like in a pushing, nagging, uh, kind of a way, but just in a loving, Hey, I saw this, thought of you, um, thought this might be helpful. Um, you know, take a look at it. And that might be the push that they, that they need, um, for this. And I’m saying this because I’ve heard from family members who’ve done the exact same thing.

Uh, listening to the show, they’ve, they’ve. Heard about a resource and they keep a list of resources so that they can provide it to their loved one when they, they feel like the time is right, [00:49:00] but they, they, they keep doing this. And, um, you know, that’s, that’s how you, you can help, um, is, is just encourage them, you know, don’t, don’t discourage them or come up with reasons why they can’t go for five days to go get help.

Like it might be life changing for them if it five days, like that’s, that’s nothing. Right.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah. And it can change, like you said, it could be life changing. I think one of the things that helps is. You know, with Mighty Oaks in particular is we’re not a clinical program. And so one of the pushbacks is the active duty community and the first responder community, if I go somewhere and I talk about my trauma or I talk about my post traumatic stress, I could lose my job or my clearance or whatever.

We’re a non clinical program, which means a lot of things. To them, it means that we don’t report anything back to anyone. Um, you know, what happens at the program stays at the program. So you can literally come spend five days with us, hopefully get some help. You will, um, and then go back to work. And, and that can be a, [00:50:00] you know, as a, as a loved one, a family member, um, can be something I think different than a lot of other programs that you can offer.

Scott DeLuzio: So it’s like Vegas, like what happens there

Jeremy Stalnecker: a lot like Vegas. It’s a lot like Vegas. Yes.

Scott DeLuzio: awesome. So, um, before we wrap up this episode, I know a lot of times the episodes that we have on the show, they’re a little heavy, uh, as far as the topics are concerned and, uh, I like to end the episodes with a little, little bit of humor, something that we can laugh at and, uh, whenever I have another veteran on the show, uh, it’s always good to do the segment.

I like to call it, is it service connected? Um, looking at, looking at, uh, service members doing something. Kind of stupid, probably injuring themselves a little bit and, you know, but not hopefully too seriously. And we can kind of laugh at it and, and make some jokes at their expense. The way I think veterans only can.

So I’m going to share my screen here with you in just a second. So you can see the video, but for the listeners, uh, who are on the [00:51:00] audio only version of this show, um, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have to just hear me describe it, or you can go check it out on YouTube and. Twitter X, whatever they call it now.

And you can check out the video there where they’re all posted right now. It looks like we got, uh, two guys on, on a machine gun range. One, one’s helping kind of make sure that feed the rounds into the gun. The other one’s rocking and rolling. It looks like, so let’s, let’s see what happens. So yeah, he’s, he’s shooting them off so far.

Nothing, nothing major. It looks like maybe a jam. All right. Hold my beer. I got this. That’s what he’s saying, I think. But he’s looking right into it. As he’s,

Jeremy Stalnecker: Oh, wow.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and the round went off as looking right into it. Like when you open that feed tray cover, you look away for that very reason.

Jeremy Stalnecker: It cooked off that, you know, it’s funny. I, I, [00:52:00] my last platoon, I had all the heavy machine guns and, uh, man, this was something we talked about all the time when that round is in there. It’s stuck. That barrel is so hot. It’s going to cook off and explode. So,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. You

Jeremy Stalnecker: confident though, I got, you got to give him that, he was

Scott DeLuzio: I, well, he did. He was like, I

Jeremy Stalnecker: shell hit him in the face.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah. Um, luckily he had the iPro on, uh, so at least it saved his vision. Hopefully, assuming, assuming that iPro was, you know, decent and it wasn’t like stuff he bought it, bought it.

Jeremy Stalnecker: I’m, I’m sure he got yelled at, but somebody else got in trouble for that too. Good

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and he’s probably angry at whoever was filming this, thinking it was going to be a cool video, you know, like,

Jeremy Stalnecker: it just went out on,

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and then it’s like, now I got a round blown up in my face like that. That’s sweet. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Let’s go post that on social media and now have it on a podcast too. That’s sweet.

Well, it’s, it’s out there forever now, so sorry, dude. Um, hopefully he, he wound up okay. Uh, he might’ve had a little.[00:53:00]

Jeremy Stalnecker: Yeah, it was hard to tell where that, you know, where that shell came back to, um, And it’s that brass, right? That’s what kicks back like that. And so, yeah, maybe it hit him, hopefully hit him in the uniform or something and not the face, but yeah, it’s hard to tell.

Scott DeLuzio: I know I’ve had some rounds that, you know, as you’re shooting, they like go down the back of your neck

Jeremy Stalnecker: Oh yeah, yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: burn like hell, like they, you can, you can’t get that thing out fast enough, you know, and I actually had a guy in my platoon, it scarred him because it, like the, the, the body armor, like pressed it up against his, his, uh, back and his neck.

And this was like months later, like he was coming out of the shower. I was like, what the hell’s on your neck? And he’s like, yeah, that’s from the. The round that got lodged in there. So, um, I mean, they can do some damage, so hopefully this guy’s okay.

Jeremy Stalnecker: they can do some damage. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Scott DeLuzio: anyways, um, thank you again, uh, Jeremy, for taking the time to come on sharing everything about Mighty Oaks.

I really do appreciate, uh, everything that you guys are doing, uh, helping the veteran [00:54:00] community, uh, and with, with everything, uh, that, that people are going through, um, you know, again, options, keep trying things and, and this is, this is another one of those options. There’s no excuse not to try it. You take away all the financial, uh, hassle, you take away the logistics, you take away all the, the Reasons that people might have, uh, the only thing is the decision that they have to make to, uh, to get there.

So, um, awesome job. Keep it up. Uh, looking forward to hearing more about what you guys do in the future. I think great things are coming, uh, and, um, you know, keep it up. So thanks again for taking the time to come on.

Jeremy Stalnecker: Thanks for the conversation. I really appreciate it. Thanks for what you’re doing.

Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely.

Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, [00:55:00] Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.