Episode 427 Bart Sherwood Service Dogs Saving Veterans Transcript

This transcript is from episode 427 with guest Bart Sherwood.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio. And today my guest is Bart Sherwood. Bart is the founder and program director of the Train a Dog, Save a Warrior organization. And their primary mission is to provide for the training of medical alert service dogs through their participant trained service dog program to restore and approve Improve the participants quality of life, uh, with a canine battle buddy and it’s all at no charge to them.

So, um, going to get into [00:01:00] this, uh, topic a little bit more where Bart and I were talking just before, uh, we started recording here about, uh, the service dog program and kind of some of the complexities and some of the things that go into it. Uh, and we’ll get into that, I’m sure a little bit more in, into this episode.

Uh, but Bart. Before we do that, uh, really glad to have you here. I wanted to welcome you to the show.

Bart Sherwood: Well, Scott, thank you for inviting me. I look forward to the, you know, the podcast and how we can go ahead and, you know, spread the knowledge of the program of service dogs, period, to, uh, all the veterans or the family members or any individuals, uh, if a dog’s going to be able to save somebody and improve somebody’s quality of life, that’s really what it’s all about.

You know, uh,

we do it

the old fashioned way, hands on.

Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely.

And, and we were talking, uh, before we started recording and I, you know, one of the things that, uh, I think you and I have in common here is that, um, [00:02:00] you know, my show, the show that we’re on right now, uh, I. Have this basically to help stop, uh, the, the, the veteran suicide, um, get that number down as close to zero as we possibly can.

And, um, you know, until that, that number is zero, I’m not going anywhere like that. That’s kind of how I feel about this show and, and kind of the effort that’s, that’s going into it, um, is because it’s that important. It needs, it needs to be around and, um, you know, The, the people need to get the support and, and same thing with the work that you do, um, cause it’s, it is helping people.

It’s helping, helping those, those veterans who are in need, uh, with whatever their, their situation is. Um, you know, if there’s a situation where a service dog can help them, um, then. then your program is, is set up to help those people, um, get what they need. Um, but we were talking [00:03:00] before about how, um, your program, um, might be a little bit different from some other programs, uh, in, in terms of how the dogs get trained.

Can you talk a little bit about that and, and what. The participant involvement is.

Bart Sherwood: The participant involvement is the same as when you were in basic training and you went to the firing range with your M 16 or whatever, and you gave it to your drill sergeant and said, here, drill sergeant, I’m done and you go clean it. And he looked at you like, I don’t think so boy, you’re gonna learn how to take care of this yourself.

Well, that’s basically what the Participant Trained Service Dog program is. And if you look at Participant Trained Service Dog, that’s PTSD. That’s the PTSD you’re gonna end up with when you come through this program. We try to destigmatize All your medical conditions, because it’s not mental illness, it’s not mental health associated, these are [00:04:00] memories, this is an occupational hazard, we coined the phrase several years ago, 8 years ago, 9 years ago, uh, Military Induced Anxiety Depression Syndrome, you know, you didn’t join the army or marines or air force or navy, get bit by a mosquito and all of a sudden you go from a normal healthy individual to a blooming idiot, You know, that’s mentally ill.

It just doesn’t happen that way, you know, and all the drugs they give you could produce side effects of different other actions, but unless we de stigmatize this condition and just say it’s an occupational hazard It’s going to continue with the losses that we see, active duty, and also on the veteran’s side.

Uh, is suicide preventable? Yes, to a large degree. When you’re in a foxhole with your battle buddy, you feel protected. You may get overrun, but you’re going to go down swinging. If you’re in that foxhole all by yourself, [00:05:00] you’re there. That’s it. Nobody’s got your six. And by giving you a new occupation of training your dog, You training your own personal dog, whether it’s a dog from your house that’s suitable or not.

A rescue dog from a shelter rescue, it doesn’t make a difference, that’s going to be your new battle buddy, and you’re going to have the bond with him, because of the fact he’s going to have your six, it’s teaching you how to do all the correct training of the dog for appropriate behavior to be out in public according to the ADA, Americans with Disabilities Guidelines, it’s to go ahead and teach you how to read your forward observer’s body language, Because he’s got signals that he can tell you when you’re triggered, you don’t have to be in the middle of a panic attack or a memory to try to get help.

He’ll let you know when you’re triggered. You may not know it, but teaching you how to be proactively responsive to the dog is part of the training. But it also gives you the ability to take control of the narrative, not to be held hostage by the [00:06:00] demons. And that’s the demons in your mind. That’s the demons in the VA, or whatever place else you may use. The Americans with Disabilities Act guidelines state who can have a service dog, and according to them, if you have a diagnosed disability, or a long term medical condition, you qualify for a service dog. Everybody that goes through the VA should have a service dog. Has already qualified because they give you a disability rating of 5 percent to 120%, whatever it is.

But that gives you the ability to get a service dog. It does not have the, the VA does not have the authority not to get you a dog. We want them to be part of saying, yes, this may help you, it may not, but let’s give it a shot. Uh, the other part of the a DA is that the dog provides a task that will improve your quality of life, whatever your quality of life is, if it’s going to, to a Whataburger and having a milkshake and fries and this Hamburg at three o’clock every day.

Great. That’s your quality of life. That’s what you wanted to do. [00:07:00] Of course, you’re going to start exercising more because after the first week, you’re going to gain a lot of weight and now you want to take it off, but you’re walking your

dog the

dog acts appropriately in public because of other people around.

It doesn’t mean that the dog has to be perfect. The dog’s not going to be a perfect individual unless you have a seeing eye dog because the person that’s behind holding the dog can’t see or can’t navigate whatever’s around him. A person surviving with anxiety and depression. Can see where he’s at and he needs to know where he’s at.

So this way, if the dog barks, you interact with your dog. This dog is not perfect. Okay. But then again, the participant isn’t perfect, but together going through the TADSAW program, they become a perfect team. And that’s what we look at. It’s the team that works together. So it’s a totally different concept.

Uh, if your dog is suitable, your personal dog is suitable, great, we’ll go ahead and let you in. Uh, you know, evaluate your dog and he’ll start training. We try to have trainers within [00:08:00] a 45 to 90 minute mile radius of where you live. If there’s not a trainer nearby, I try to get new trainers in. The unfortunate part is civilians don’t really like helping veterans, no matter how you look at it.

There’s a great part of these dog trainers that, uh, well, if I can make money on it, Great. If I have to make a difference to somebody’s life, well, it just depends on do I really want to do it or not. And that’s what they have look at. They have to look at the social impact on the return of their investment of working with veterans and how it benefits somebody else.

You know, we’ve gotten away from a lot of that. Believe, but there’s the, the waiting time in our program. There is no two to five year wait. It’s however long it takes you to get your paperwork done. Uh, as I was telling you, uh, if you go to the VA to get your paperwork signed, they said, oh, we can’t sign off.

There’s a policy, this, that, or the other. We’re not Americans. We’re Americans. We figure out a way to do things and come away with it successfully. Hopefully real successful, but [00:09:00] partially successful, or at least we know we’ve tried, but, you know, so, so you’re not deterred by. Not getting the VA to sign off.

You’ve got the medical history. You’ve got all the paperwork. That’s what we use. Uh, you know, it’s, uh, there’s usually a three to five week wait from the time somebody applies and gets the application back. We work on the, the veteran’s timeframe. So when they get me, they’re part of the application back.

We send their name to the trainer. If they haven’t gone to the VA yet, okay, well, let’s not wait on the VA’s time. They’re not, they don’t run this program. They’re not my partner, and they never will be unless they decide to just change everything around and start really being serious about what they want to do.

So, there’s a three to five, if we have to get you a dog from a rescue, it could take. Two weeks to 16 weeks, but we’re not going to get you a dog that’s done going to be called a substandard service dog We want the dog that’s got that bond ability Who has your six and the two of you work together because these dogs there’s [00:10:00] a lot of dogs that were born to be Service dogs and you can tell because they pick up on everything very quickly and a lot of the veterans are going to listen to this Podcast say well my dog does that he comes up to me sometimes out of middle of nowhere and the cop You Speak for no reason.

It’s like, but, or when I get into the middle of a panic attack, he comes up maybe a little bit before or into it, and we want the, we want the veteran to realize that when your dog comes up to you and out of the blue and pushes you with his nose or looks at you and barks, interact with him. You’re probably triggered.

You just don’t know it, but the dog does. Is the dog smarter than your psychiatrist and psychologist? Yes. He smell the difference. Your psychologist can’t smell the difference.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Bart Sherwood: about teaching, you know, uh, using the therapy dog model as the, you know, methodology of teaching the handler to read the dog’s body language is what we use.

We don’t use the seeing eye dog model which says the trainer is smarter than everybody else and he’s going to train you a dog that’s perfect, [00:11:00] but your dog is never going to let you know when you’re triggered because they take away willful disobedience and willful intelligence when they do that. And so But it’s about the veteran participating from day one and him becoming a dog trainer because this way when he has to replace his dog he has the ability to train his next dog according to the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Owner trained service dogs have the same rights of access as any organizational trained dog. And if your dog misbehaves, He has the same right of right of denial to have to leave the place, It doesn’t disqualify your dog as a service dog. It just means that today he wasn’t exactly doing his best So we need to go someplace else maybe he wasn’t doing his best because the veteran wasn’t feeling his best So it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a partnership deal between the dog and the veteran totally.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I liked how you made the analogy of, you know, two guys in a foxhole, right? You got [00:12:00] each other’s back and. You’re, you’re there. You’re, you might, you might be getting overrun or, or something along those lines, things might be really in a bad situation, but you’re going to fight it out together versus the picture of just one guy sitting in a foxhole by himself.

That, when you said that, I got that like. scared, lonely, like, uh, that kind of image in my head where that’s not where you want to be, um, in, in the midst of a panic attack or, or something like that. And, uh, And it really drove home the point that when you have this service dog who has been with you from the start, from, uh, yeah, I’m not saying from, you know, a puppy necessarily, although it could have um, you know, but, but from the start of the training and you’re, you’re together through all of this, there’s a bond that, that gets formed between the veteran and the dog and [00:13:00] can start to read each other.

The dog is, like you said, is really great at sensing when something is going on with the Veteran. The Veteran can watch the dog and tell, like, when the dog has certain cues, like certain things are going on. Maybe we’d need to pay attention to that. Um, you know, I may not even realize that I’m having, uh, you know, an attack of some sort.

Bart Sherwood: F

Scott DeLuzio: The dog does. It’s like, okay, well, let’s pay attention. What this dog is, is telling me. Um, just as an example, my wife years ago, um, we had a, a dog, it wasn’t trained for anything. It was just our, our family pet. And my wife, uh, is epileptic and the dog started coming up to her before she started, before the seizure started, uh, would come up to her and start just kind of pawing at her.

And. We didn’t understand why, because she had, the dog had never done this before. [00:14:00]

Bart Sherwood: all

Scott DeLuzio: five minutes or so, she was starting to show signs that she was going to have a seizure. And we started using that and paying attention, even though she wasn’t trained, when the dog came up to my wife and started like pawing at her, it’s like, okay, let’s get my wife her medication that, that will help prevent the seizures from happening.

It, it works if you pay attention to those signals. Um, Like you said, you kind of have to learn what those things are. We kind of learned the hard way because we pieced it together, um, you know, after my wife did have a seizure. But like in this case, um, you know, with a service dog that you’ve been working with through throughout the beginning of the training, all the way through the whole process, you know what the dog is going to do when you start having certain, um, you know, certain symptoms come up, right.

Bart Sherwood: Totally correct. The only thing any dog trainer can do is teach a dog to sit down, stay, [00:15:00] leave it. All the obedience that’s necessary. They can train them to do all that. All the tasks you may need, like find my cell phone, find my car, find my keys, remind me to take medication, help me walk up and down steps, pick up this object, bring it to me, bring, bring this back to me, stand behind my back so somebody can’t walk up from behind, and probably a hundred things more that, you know, you can train a dog to do.

The one thing you can’t train the dog to do, you can train him to smell. Bombs, gunpowder, dynamite, drugs, fentanyl, whatever drug it is, contraband, money, gasoline, cigarettes, whatever, whatever contraband you want to find, you can train a dog to smell. You cannot train a dog to smell adrenaline and cortisol neurotransmitters.

You know, when, when, even, even if you’re a diabetic and you send your clothing, your dirty, sweaty clothing from night to the, to dog trainer that’s doing your dog training. All the dog’s getting is when he smells the shirt, he says, it’s a sweaty shirt. What are you sending me a dirty clothes [00:16:00] for? You know, not that, that, that the adrenaline doesn’t dissipate or the glucose doesn’t dissipate.

Because when you get the dog home, they say, now, remember, check when you take your, when you check your blood sugar, You know, swab your mouth and let the dog smell where you’re at when you’re doing this to reset them. So the dog smells the body chemicals pretty quickly, almost naturally. You know, that’s from that human canine gene.

They’ve got a, they can smell 100 different scents per second. So, if you have a stew, they can smell every ingredient in the stew from the seasoning to the carrots to this cut of meat because, you know, a ribeye has a different smell than a sirloin. So, they can smell all the differences. Well, they can smell that adrenaline and cortisol within one to three minutes of the, of when you’re triggered.

In the case of seizures and epilepsy, they smell the chemical change going on in the brain one to three minutes by you focusing them on that if you have a seizure, You’re going to go ahead and get the brain back into a [00:17:00] rhythm because your five special senses pick up on the dog. The sense of sight, sense of smell, sense of touch, sense of hearing, sense of hearing, touch, smell, sight.

Okay, the five. And, and because your brain is now focused on the, on the dog, you’re going to minimize the seizure because as a pharmacist, I will tell you this, you are not going to stop the seizure once it starts. You may minimize the effects of it, but you’re not going to stop it. You know, and the same thing with an anxiety attack.

Are you going to stop the anxiety attack? Absolutely not. That memory is coming out, but you’re going to control it to where it’s minimized and just an afterthought. So, so when you start paying attention to your dog, and he, and he, and if you’re walking down the street and he side swipes your leg, it’s like, damn, can’t you walk on your side of the pavement?

thinking, damn, can’t you just reach down and pet me? We’re walking through a crowd and you don’t even see these people. And, you know, I, you’re, you’re releasing adrenaline and [00:18:00] cortisol, interact with me and we’ll walk through the crowd together. Otherwise, you know, a lot of these organizations, they train a dog so when you’re out in public, if you get nervous because you’re now you’re in a crowd, you have a command like fresh air and the dog learns to go to a door with the fresh air so you can get out of the building.

But you have to be in that position every time to get out. How do you get, how do you get any better being in a crowd if your dog is going to pull you out, excuse me, when you’re in that situation? The idea is to take control of the situation. When you get triggered, your body releases adrenaline cortisol neurotransmitters or you start having blood changes within one to three minutes of the trigger.

It takes anywhere from 5 to 12 minutes for that adrenaline cortisol neurotransmitter or the blood glucose to reach a level to where you notice there’s a change. When you notice there’s a change, that’s when you take your medication to try to swallow, but you’re not going to stop it. All you’re going to do is become [00:19:00] drowsy, okay?

Or your, or your therapist or your doctor said, well, you know, when you get to that point of fight or flight and the light goes on, take a deep breath to release the oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins that will actually counteract The adrenaline cortisol is in your system, but now you’re 12 to 15 minutes in the middle of an episode, it’s going to take you 45 5 hours to get back to being out of that episode. Your dog alerts you 1 to 3 minutes with the smell. By your interaction with the dog, you can actually start, even though you have no idea what’s going on, you can actually start the release of the oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins, and dopamine, or start focusing your brain on the dog, which means once you get your brain back in rhythm All the electrical stimulation going to the, to the external part to go and show that seizure gets to be stopped and now only what’s in the nerve is going to continue to go on and run out of gas.

So it’s going to minimize the seizure, you’re still going to [00:20:00] have the seizure, you’re still going to have the memory, but in 10 to 12 minutes after you interacted with your dog because you haven’t gotten to that fight or flight situation, uh, you get to that 10 to 12 minutes after you start interacting with the dog, you get the, oh wow, what made me think of that?

Oh, that was a weird feeling. And basically, you’ve minimized the episode down to just a afterthought or aftershake, and you’ve taken control of the narrative, and you’re not held hostage by the demons of your memory, or the demons of your, your medical condition.

Scott DeLuzio: And one of the things that popped in my mind as you were talking about this is, um, it may not seem like a big difference, you know, one to three minutes versus, uh, you know, up to, I think you said 12 minutes, um, without the dog, one to three minutes with the dog. Um, If there’s a memory that you’re having or something that triggers a memory, let’s just say it that maybe it’s a sight, a scent, a [00:21:00] taste, a sound.

It could be any number of different things that trigger this, right? If you’re getting alerted to this within a minute to three minutes of the time that that, Trigger takes place. It’s going to be a lot more fresh in your mind as to what that trigger was. What is the thing that is causing me to have whatever this response is to that trigger, um, And you can, you may not even know what that trigger was, but you can start to think about, okay, what happened in the last minute to three minutes, uh, before, and you can start to think, okay, well, yeah, there was that, that funny smell.

And that smell reminded me of something, right? Versus if 12 minutes, um, and anyone who’s, uh, You know, ever experienced any kind of traumatic incident, ever been in a firefight or [00:22:00] something like that. 12 minutes is an eternity, uh, in, in certain circumstances, right? You may not remember what that thing was that, that triggered you.

Um, but being able to identify it can also, I think, help, uh, in kind of mitigating these things in the future. So you can, you can be like, okay, well, This is a thing that is causing me to have this heightened anxiety or the, this, whatever the stress response is, um, from that trigger. And if you can now identify it, then it’s like, okay, well, I’m going into a situation.

I know there’s going to be this particular sound, uh, in the, in this situation or the scent or, or whatever the case may be. Um, so. What, what do I need to do to kind of prepare myself for that? So that way you, you go into the, the situation, um, kind of already prepared

Bart Sherwood: You’ve already released, you’ve already released [00:23:00] adrenaline into your system, your dog’s trying to figure out what the hell’s going on, why are you overthinking this, Scott? That’s

Scott DeLuzio: Okay. That could be

Bart Sherwood: the

off. Now you’ve turned the dog on. Now turned the dog on, okay? You see, you’ve upset the apple cart because in there, you had nothing on your mind.

You have, there’s two parts of your brain, okay? You know, you have the subconscious and the conscious, The subconscious is what your eyes, ears, nose, feed into, okay? And that is what opens up the cell that the memory is going to come out of, okay? It takes 5 to 12 minutes for the subconscious to say, okay, well, let’s process this and we’ll send it to the consciousness.

So when the conscious subconscious gets triggered, it may take 5 to 12 minutes to go ahead and get to the conscious part. of you realizing that something’s gone on, you know. So, so, so you’ve got kind of a buffer there [00:24:00] that kind of protects you, okay. Well, the dog picks up on the subconscious because that’s when the adrenaline cortisol release.

That consciousness is at the threshold of fight or flight when you really get to, excuse me, know what’s going on. And that’s when you say, yep, that was the smell of barbecue. Yep. I remember that burning smell, just like I, You know, had back in that village and that’s, but because of the fact you’re able to go ahead and circumvent it because your dog brought you back because of the, uh, you know, of the, uh, uh, release of your oxytocin, because now you’re interacting with them, you won’t know until 10 minutes like, oh, wow, that was a weird, I wonder what triggered that.

You just kind of admit to it. So, you know, like I said, sometimes, you know, you, you get to just have to figure that your battle buddy is telling you something because he’s right. Now, the one thing I am going to say is suicide does not occur at the 10 to 12 minute mark when you get to the [00:25:00] consciousness. Suicide occurs three to five minutes after the trigger occurs. Because the dog picks up on it and you are in that limbo stage of not paying attention. Okay. And you’ve picked up a weapon knife or whatever, and you’re putting it up towards your head and your dog walks in, steps in between your arm and the weapon in your head.

Okay. And licks you on the cheek and you look down and said, Oh shit, pardon my French, you know, what am I doing here?

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Bart Sherwood: And you know, you realize that This is the first time you tried to commit suicide that your dog actually pulled you at it. And the difference between a cutter and a suicide is that you didn’t hit the vein or the artery with the knife on the first or second try until the pain got to where, Holy crap, I’m, I’m hurting, I’m cutting myself.

And that’s when you realize that yes, you were there. And usually when people have that stage where they didn’t realize they were pulling the trigger, You know, [00:26:00] that suicide is stopped, you know, and if they have that dog, that battle buddy is there to prevent them from doing it. You can’t train a dog to do that because if you go ahead and pull a gun and put it up to your head and fire a blank and the dog looks and says, Oh, okay, you’re all right.

Scott DeLuzio: Right

Bart Sherwood: happen like that, you know? And so, so it’s a one, it’s a one time deal, but that one time deal, if it saves your life, you are off the bubble forever and ever because you have what you owe to your battle buddy. You know, that he brought back. So, you know, yes. You know, when you go into a crowd, you know, and your dog is bumping you, you’re just walking, your dog is starting to bump you, you know, you pet your dog and say, okay, buddy, I got you, let me know if something’s wrong, and you’re not thinking about the crowd, you’re just thinking your dog’s got, telling you something, and you’re walking in the mall, and then all of a sudden, it’s like, holy crap, I’m here among a hundred people, and I’m handling it.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Bart Sherwood: I can do this. So the second time you go there, [00:27:00] yes, you are prepared because you got your service dog, your battle buddy with you. So it’s that much more. If you don’t get, if you can’t do that and be able to walk into the crowd without that battle buddy, you know, or letting him tell you when you’re finally in the middle of a padding attack, let’s get out of here.

Then what good is it? How do you get better? How do you improve yourself? You know, a lot of times, you know, in counseling, they keep taking you back to the same dark areas that you’re trying to escape from over and over again. You know, you go there, they whip the scab off the wound, you know, you go home, you go home for three weeks, you’re still suffering, you know, you’re surviving, you know, because they opened up the wound, you know, after three weeks, you start to feel a little bit better.

Then about three weeks, you’re doing real well, and then you go back to counseling. And what do they do? They keep taking you to the bad place. They take you to the then and was. That’s the [00:28:00] memory. The then and was. Not the here and now. If they talk to you about the here and now, what are you doing? Have you gone to see the movies?

Have you read this book? Have you done this? Have you done that? They don’t ask questions like that. They keep taking you back to them. And your dog says, and the, and the, the, the, the service dog says, Wait a minute. I’m your service dog. You’re training me. You’re no longer an 11 Bravo. You’re no longer You know a truck driver, you know, this is what you are.

You’re a dog trainer. Leave that memory of What you did in the past back there. It’s just a memory You’re here taking care of me and that’s what releases that oxytocin that that immediate Bonding of you got my six and I’m paying attention to you

Scott DeLuzio: Well, and I

Bart Sherwood: really what the whole pro, the program is about, teaching you how to read your dog and be able to things.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Uh, and, and I think going back to, you know, like military service, um, when you have your, your battle buddy [00:29:00] who is, you know, either on your left or your right or whatever, um, You know, you’re not going to quit on that person just because things are getting tough, right? You, you look at that person like, I, I need to figure this out and I need to, to do this for that other person.

And, uh, you know, in this case, Your battle buddy is your dog. And, and the dog is, is the, the, the one that’s getting you, pulling you through these difficult times, like you were talking about, um, you know, uh, you hear stories of, of these, these guys who, um, you can’t think of a more difficult time than having a grenade land at your feet, right?

And then there’s a guy who just jumps on the grenade because. Because of the guy to the left, the guy to the right, they’re doing it to save those, those people, to help them out. Um, you know, yeah, you, you want to be there, you want to, um, you know, be there for your battle [00:30:00] buddy, and your battle buddy wants to be there for you, and they want to help, everyone wants to help each other out.

And when you have that dog who wants to help you, um, they look up to you, like you’re, you’re their whole world, right? And

Bart Sherwood: you’re only one that has, you’re the only one that has an opposable thumb that can open up the can of dog food.

Don’t

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right, that’s right.

Bart Sherwood: think too much into this. You know, if you didn’t have an opposable thumb, you know. Uh, if the dog had an opposable thumb, he might be called a cat because he wouldn’t worry about getting fed by you

you know this

but this, but this animal who relies on a person to open up the can because they just don’t like tearing up metal,

Scott DeLuzio: Right,

right.

Bart Sherwood: You know, so, you know, but that’s, but yeah, it is, you don’t, the dog has willful disobedience, intelligent disobedience, he just does it because he wants to, and these, and these, and these dog trainers that use e collars and prong collars, they teach a dog not to do something because they don’t want to get in trouble. trying to please you, he’s not going to try to get in trouble. You know, and so many people that come [00:31:00] into the program with a knee collar, I try to explain to them, well, he’s a great dog. I said, yes, he may be a great dog, but he would have been a better dog if you hadn’t put a knee collar on him because now you’ve turned him off to helping you because, you know, you don’t have that reliance.

And, you know, and it’s about building that bond up. That’s so important over and over with your dog. Uh, yes. And when, you know, some of our, our, our veterans have come in and. Have, you know, started training. They said, well, you know, I need to get rid of the dog because my, my partner is jealous and, you know, my wife or my spouse is jealous, you know, so I’m going to give the dog back and my trainers will tell them the same thing I tell them when they call me and tell me that is, You know, a good service dog is hard to replace, but you can always get a better, a better partner, know, so, if, if that’s the case, take, keep the dog, get rid of the partner, and just say, it’s been fun, but I’ll keep the dog, you know, uh, talking to the [00:32:00] spouses, you know, uh, you know, is that this dog is your buddy, Not only is it your partner’s battle buddy, but this dog is your buddy because he’s taking a lot of stress off you of having to be the caregiver.

Scott DeLuzio: Right,

Bart Sherwood: So, enjoy that you have now a new caregiver that helps you along so he, so your partner can do more things by himself or herself and be part of the family again. You know, the dog does a whole lot more than just, you know, That, the dog unites the family, the neighborhood, and back in the, lets the veteran get, be part of the whole circle, his community, his, his neighborhood, his family, as, because he’s now able to do things, you know, with the dog, and, you know, and like I said, that’s really the important thing is that, restoring this person’s ability to live a good life like he, like they had before they went in the military.

For got all these things into their mind. So, so the dog is a [00:33:00] very important part of the family. You know, he can play with the kids, you know, I mean, he’s a dog. He wants to play with the family. He wants to be involved with the family. He wants to meet strangers, you know, because he’s the bridge. So when you go out there and somebody says, is that your service dog?

Yeah. Oh, well, he’s a pretty nice dog. We’d like to pet him. Sure, you know, uh, you know, things like that because then you’re making the service dog a a p a partnership You With you because he’s taking the people looking at you like, oh, well, you don’t have any wounds. What’s wrong with you? You know, I’ve got a medical condition, you know, people ask me, you know when I had my dog So what’s wrong with you?

What does your dog do for you? I said, well, I’ve tried to stop smoking So we’ve taught him how to bite me in my ass when I go a cigarette, you know and so he nips at me and so I don’t smoke anymore and You know And, uh, they said, you really can train your dog to do that? I said, most definitely. I’m a perfect experience, you know.

Uh, we had somebody come to [00:34:00] us. They wanted to, uh, teach a dog how to alert his, uh, his Politician, when he started to lie or tell a story,

Scott DeLuzio: Oh my

Bart Sherwood: would

I’d nip him in the butt, but the one problem we had, the dog would not let go of the person. He held on for dear life,

Scott DeLuzio: I had a feeling that’s where you’re going, yeah.

Bart Sherwood: you know, so, so, you know, but, but the dog, you know, can be trained to do a lot of things and, you know, and, and really humor, humor will make your service dog that much more, important to somebody else who’s looking for a dog for somebody else.

Why? Because now you laugh instead of just sitting there and looking sad and crying, and just the world is gonna, it gives you the ability to be able to laugh again and be part of the family. And that’s really what it is. It’s restoring that person’s quality of life. And like I said, you know, it’s, it’s, that’s, that’s really the object.

And, you know, and, uh, it, it takes a lot of work. It takes commitment, you know, [00:35:00] 24, 7, 365. And, uh, it just takes that person to really want to, really want to get back into, to, to his role in life.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

Bart Sherwood: Without, drugs.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and like you were saying, his role in the family, in the community, you know, his neighborhood and his, his career, or, and I’m saying his, because I’m, I’m just using it as a

Bart Sherwood: Well, no, I know

Scott DeLuzio: This is for everybody, right? Um, but, but their role, their role in whatever it is that they do, um, you know, if, if You can’t be a good parent or a good spouse or a good, uh, neighbor or coworker or whoever you are to whoever is important to you.

Um, if you can’t be a good one of those things, um, then the dog is there to help you. With, like you said before, that quality of life. If, if you’re, if you can’t enjoy going out and, you know, going to the park with your kids or [00:36:00] something, um, because you can’t get outside for whatever reason because of whatever condition you have, um, well, if that dog can help you do that, well, that, that should be a great thing, right?

um,

Bart Sherwood: everything. I mean, you know, do you want to be on the right, do you want to, do you want to stand on the right field sidelines at a baseball game, or do you want to sit in the bleachers with the, with the other parents, what do you want to do? Do you want to be just a spectator in life or do you want to be a participant?

And that’s really, you know, it’s, it’s teaching the veteran that. You don’t have to be held hostage anymore. You’ve got a battle buddy. How many times, and I guess you’ve had counseling sessions before when you were in the VA, okay, how many times did they say, okay, we’re going to pair up and give everybody a battle buddy?

Scott DeLuzio: Uh,

Bart Sherwood: No. Why? Do you know why they don’t? Do you know why they don’t? Because if you have a battle buddy, you two are stronger together, and they don’t [00:37:00] want you to be strong. They want to have you under their thumb. And yet, when one of our veterans goes in, or any veteran that goes in, you know, especially the TADSAW veterans, because we want the other veterans there to come over and pet the dog and feel a little bit better, so we encourage it, you know, because if you get triggered when you’re in that session, you’re You can be assured this, your dog is going to turn tail from whoever he was petting, and come back to you, because you’re the number one, you know, he’s not lassy, he’s not rin tintin, he’s not going to run down the street to go and get somebody to come help you, he’s going to come back and sit by your side, he’s not going to leave you alone, you know, he may walk 10 feet and start barking wildly, but he’s not going to leave you.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.

Bart Sherwood: But that’s the thing, you know, when you’re in a session, they don’t want you, you’re in a one on one session. Now, if you had two on one, you know, it’d be like, okay, well, then they’re ganging up on me, I’m the therapist. And, and, and they have to keep you all separated, [00:38:00] except when you come there with your battle buddy, and then it’s like, well, it seems like you really improved.

Well, yes, I am. I’ve got my battle buddy who doesn’t let me get You know, doesn’t let me get into that dark zone. He’s letting me know before I have to get there. And that’s the difference between organizations. Do you need to get into the dark zone before the dog is going to alert you? Or do you go in there and the dog’s already got you releasing oxytocin so you’re carrying a flashlight into the dark zone? You know, you’re not going to be held hostage. You should not be held hostage by your medical condition or anybody, you know, treating you with your medical condition.

Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely. Um, for the, the folks who are listening, uh, who might be interested in getting involved and, uh, figuring out how to, uh, kind of proceed with going through the training, what, what’s the process, what do they need to do first and how do they get. Uh, the, the ball rolling with all that.[00:39:00]

Bart Sherwood: First they should call me at (210) 643-2901, and do not go out and buy a puppy unless you want the wrath of Bart and go buy a six week

old

puppy. You do not want it. You know, it’s, it’s don. You didn’t see a whole lot of 5-year-old and eight year olds. in basic training and the reason is they’re not old enough to do the job. don’t have a sense of smell. They have an aura that keeps them safe, but they don’t have a sense of smell. They don’t develop that till they’re 8 to 10 months of age. And when you do get a dog, get an older dog and the dog will pick, you know, they say a dog will pick you out in the shelter and they do because they smell your adrenaline, your cortisol, they smell the levels and they either like it or they don’t, you know, and they’ll stare at you.

You know, you don’t have to worry about the puppy, the dog that comes jumping up and down trying to get your attention, saying, pick me, pick me. Look at the one that’s just kind of watching you, because that’s the one who’s got you in his sights and his smell and everything else. So the older dog has the sense of smell, which means from day one, if you get triggered, [00:40:00] You’re going to be, he’s going to alert you.

It’s teaching you how to be more proactively responsive right then and there, rather than saying no the dog, you know, but then again, you’d also don’t take him into a situation that’s going to trigger you, you know, just, you have to bond first, but they can call me, they can reach out to the website.

It’s not an application online. It’s a, it’s a, uh, you know, an informational type of contact, you know, and I’ll call, send you an email that says, call me, you know, so we can talk, uh, I don’t look at applica I look at applications as suicide interventions. So we’ve got over 18, 000 suicide interventions, Because I talk to everybody and explain how the program is. If I’ve got to explain the program 20 times in one day to 20 different people, I will talk to them 20 different times. Doesn’t bo That’s my job, you know? It’s a That’s what I’m there for.

Uh

But, you know, you look at that and you start trying to make [00:41:00] everything positive, you know, what’s the reduction, how many success do you have, you know, talking about the number of suicides a day, you know, they’ve been doing that since 2013 when, when they came out with the 22 figure, here we are 2024 and they still haven’t changed the figure, they moved the goalposts up and down, you know, and the nice part is the reservists, Or, you know, the National Guardsmen, they don’t count on either side, because they’re neither active duty, nor are they veterans, so, when they commit suicide, it’s just, well, it’s just a bonus point for us, and they also don’t do all the states, but, you know, I used to follow that, you know, 22 suicides a day, and, you know, people just gasp when I tell the number, but now I, I talk about suicide preventions, you know, because that’s what we can see, and we’ve seen over 1, 500 of them.

You know, just through our program. Of course, probably 3, 500 or more that have started the program and figured out, well, wait a minute, I can train my own dog. I don’t need to [00:42:00] go through a program. And guess what? I’m just as tickled. If they can figure it out to train their own dog and be safe, I don’t care.

If I don’t have credit for it, that’s fine. It’s, it’s the iceberg under the, under the water that you don’t see,

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Bart Sherwood: know

and so that’s what I’m more concerned about. If I helped you to figure this out, to be able to help yourself, that you can take care of yourself now and go be the person you were meant to be, that’s fine.

I’ll take credit for 1, 500. I won’t take credit for 7, 500 because then everybody would get mad. Get worse mad at me, you know, uh, so, you know, you, you take what you can, but you know, it’s, it’s, it’s about, you know, making everybody aware. It’s your choice. It’s your opportunity. If you don’t know how to train a dog, great.

If you know how to train a dog, then you can do it all yourself. You’ve done a job. You know, a lot of times people call me about their dog and, and they tell me where they’re going. I say, well, you, what do you need me for? Well, don’t I need to be certified? It’s like, no, [00:43:00] ADA says if you’ve got the disability rating, you can own or train your dog.

You’ve done a great job. If you’ve got problems, call me. I’ll be more than glad to talk to you about your problems. If you need to come into the program, fine, we’ll let you come into the program, train you and test you if you want. You know, but I mean, but it’s not about, it’s not always about, it’s about helping the person to get to be where they need to be.

you know, yes, but if you, you know, I mean, call me, I’ll talk to you. Uh, you know, there’s a part of the horse that a lot of people call me. And so, uh, you know, I don’t mind it because I treat everybody the same. So I, I, I deserve that, you know, you know, I may sound crude and I may sound, you know, uh, like I’m not listening, but you know, it’s like, okay, you’ve told me, but this is the way it’s gotta be.

You went to your drill sergeant and you never raised your voice to your drill sergeant. You didn’t get mad at your drill sergeant, you know, because he was the one that would save you through basic training.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Bart Sherwood: know, and I tell my. I tell my trainers and I tell the veterans that [00:44:00] just remember your dog trainer carries a star inside his insignia.

So that means he’s a, he’s a senior NCO and you would treat your trainer like a senior NCO. He’s not an officer. So don’t worry about that. the only person this, your, your trainer answers to is the general in charge of the arm of the program and that’s me. So, you know, we try to, you know, we try to let everybody realize that, you know, yes, You know, everybody’s treated with respect.

Nobody’s gonna, if there’s a problem, my phone rings 24 7 365. I’m as close as a phone call away,

you know

so, so I like to, you know, not, you know, be there for the veterans when they need questions and things like this. I’m always available, but that’s how it starts. They call me. I send out the application within hours.

Uh, you know, sometimes these old ears, you know, they, uh, sometimes they don’t hear the, Email correctly. So I’ll text somebody, you know, please send me your email address. I

think I messed up

then it’s like, but [00:45:00] don’t text me anything else except email addresses.

Uh

yeah, my fingers are too big and the keys are too small on the cell phones.

So, you know, like I said, we, I, I’m a, I’m an old fashioned pharmacist. I took care of my customers in my pharmacy and, uh, I take care of the veterans and anybody who needs a service dog the same way, one on

one it’s

you know, we get the applications out, you know, uh, if you have a puppy, you know, I’ll always tell you, make sure you do your application while you’re waiting for this dog to grow, because when the dog’s 14 or 15 months old, you’re going to call me up and say, hey Bart, I need an application, because I don’t know where I put it,

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Bart Sherwood: It’s not going to get any better, so just fill out your application while you’re waiting. But, you know, it starts with a phone call to me, or an email to me, and then follows up with a phone call, but I’ve talked to every, every applicant in the program. I want them to realize that this is not, you’re just a number here, you’re a person. I know the people, and yet when I talk to [00:46:00] my trainers, my trainers don’t know the veterans names, but they know the dogs names.

And they’ll say, well, let’s talk, you know, Buddy’s doing real good. Well, who does Buddy belong to? Is Buddy the dog or the vet? Oh, no, Buddy’s dog. Tell me the veterans name, because I only go by veterans names, not, you know, the dogs

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Bart Sherwood: So, so there’s a disconnect there, but, you I said, it’s You know, you want a program to feel relaxed, friendly, uh, you know, you’ve got enough tension and problems that you don’t need to have any more stress,

you

Scott DeLuzio: And this, this seems like a great way to get the people into the training and, and move, move through, um, they’re actively involved in it. And, and that’s, uh, I think a great thing to, um, you know, I, I’ve heard of other places where they, they train the dog and then like the, the. Person who’s getting the dog will come in at the tail end of the the training and and only participate in part of it [00:47:00] Or or maybe not even at all and that to me that just doesn’t seem like it would work The way you guys do it seems like that’s the way to do it be involved from beginning to end and And that way, uh, you know, even, even the smells, like when you’re saying, like, when you, whatever chemicals are going on in your body that release, whatever those smells are that the dog is smelling, um, it might vary from person to person.

And if they’re smelling it from one person or another, or, or even getting it from, you know, You know, your clothing or something like that. Um, you know, it, it may, it may not be as strong, uh, as what it might have been, or there may be some variations, whatever the, the, the differences might be, but, um, you know, it’s just going to be better if they get it straight from the source, um,

Bart Sherwood: Well, is better, you know.

Scott DeLuzio: way, right?

Bart Sherwood: You know, I mean, you know, being a pharmacist, I cannot think of one drug, [00:48:00] any drug, that can re establish somebody, rebuild somebody’s self esteem, re establish somebody’s self confidence. Or trust, whatever. There’s no drug. Maybe fentanyl, or maybe with a little bit of Ritalin, will make you feel like a superhuman, until somebody hits you in the head with a baseball bat, and there goes all your self confidence, right out, you know, like, what, what fighter said, you can plan all you want, on how you’re gonna fight somebody in the ring, until the first punch is thrown.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. think that was Mike Tyson.

Bart Sherwood: was, it Tyson?

Scott DeLuzio: I think so.

Bart Sherwood: Yeah, he says you can plan all you want, but until the first function throws the whole game plan out of whack,

know

So basically that’s the same thing, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, you can have all the plans, but until you get involved and do it and learn how to do it, that’s what really makes it so much more stronger.

It just gives you that ability. You have a, you’ve got a rated [00:49:00] disability. You’ve got a 100 percent rated disability from the VA. You do not have a 100 percent rated inability. It’s a disability, not an inability. So, if you have a TBI and are a little bit slower, well, guess what? It’s probably not going to take 20 to 25 weeks to go through this program.

It’s probably going to take maybe 35 or 40 weeks to go through the program. If you have a medical condition in which you have a caregiver that takes care of you, to feed you, make sure everything goes right, you’ve got a 24 hour caregiver because that’s what you need. These, these individuals are turned down by organizations because they don’t know how to take care of a dog.

Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

Bart Sherwood: course, they can take care of a dog, but then again, they can’t take care of themselves. But, to give them a dog, a small dog that can jump into their wheelchair lap, you know, and lick their beard. You know, from the food [00:50:00] that’s on there, you’re doing exactly what they do. They smile, they feel good. they’re, they’re in a crappy situation, but their attitude is, is right because now they’re happy.

And if the dog has to go out, well, he’ll go take his wheelchair and they’ll go out together, the caregiver, the dog, and him. you know, so it’s finding a way to make sure everybody who needs a dog can benefit, you know? And so, you know, like I said, it’s. You know, we don’t turn anybody down, you know, it’s, we’re here to take care of them.

I mean, when you call somebody up to have, to be taken care of, you don’t want to be told I can’t help you.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.

Bart Sherwood: That’s not, that’s not, that’s not an option. Can’t is not an option.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And it shouldn’t be an option. Uh, and, and I, I like how, you know, everybody has access to this program and, and there’s no, you know, real restrictions, limitations with, with that. [00:51:00] Um, you know, so long as the dog is, you know, You know, uh, suitable. Yeah. I was going to say definitely suitable. Uh, you want to have the right kind of temperament and, and, uh, obviously old enough that, that type of thing, you got to make sure, you know, there’s a couple of those requirements, uh, but before getting into it, but, but assuming you have all that there, you know, as far as the person is concerned, um, there’s no real restrictions, uh, as, as far as that goes.

So that, that’s great. Um, And we’ll have links to all the information, uh, that you provided here in the, uh, show notes for the listeners so they, they can, uh, get in touch, they can, they can find out more about the program, uh, you know, through your website and, and everything like that, um, they can reach out, they can call you, email, you know, whatever the, the, the case may be.

And then, uh, Get involved in the program and hopefully get the, the help that they need from a service dog. Um, uh, Bart, it’s, it’s [00:52:00] been a pleasure speaking with you and, and having this conversation, learning more about your program. I really do appreciate everything, uh, that you guys are doing to help out.

The, the veterans and getting them, uh, you know, you know, connected with the service dog, um, I really do appreciate all the work that you do and for coming on show.

Bart Sherwood: It’s an honor and privilege to, you know, be able to take care of the needs of our veterans and, you know, I think my greatest honor this year, okay, is that I’ve got a 95 year old Korean War veteran with the 2nd Division Marines very much. Okay, who is getting a service dog. He’s going to go through it, you know, he’s been kind of crotchety, but he’s 95 years old.

I’m not going to, you know, I’m honored the fact that he called and we can help him,

Scott DeLuzio: Sure,

Bart Sherwood: he’s, but he’s adamant about getting a German shepherd. And I said, well, how about a French stripper? Would you like a French stripper instead of a [00:53:00] German shepherd? You know, I thought, you know, that, or, you know, or an English stripper, you know, whatever.

But, you know, he was adamant about getting a German Shepherd because that’s all he had. But even when I explained it to him, you know, we look for the personality in the dog and that, you know, maybe your former German Shepherds are coming back in the form of a lab or something else, you don’t dissuade, don’t put down the dog you made me.

You know, because it may be your, your old battle, but it’s coming back in a new form, you know, and he says, Okay, I’ll think about that. I said, Okay, and you know, and I said, But I think that’s the, I mean, that’s a privilege to be able to take care of somebody from, from the Korean War era, because there’s not a whole lot of them left.

Scott DeLuzio: right

Bart Sherwood: any, service dog organization that would say, Well, we only take care of Post 9 11, they got to really think back on, they just said no to a guy who called up for help, and I just can’t, I just can’t see doing that. I mean,

Scott DeLuzio: That’s a great way to think about that. Yeah.

Bart Sherwood: [00:54:00] it’s

not my DNA. I mean, we should be so thankful that, that somebody is giving us the honor of needing our assistance.

That it’s an honor and privilege, and being honest, as a non profit, yeah, you’ve got a mission statement. But if you haven’t kind of wavered on your mission statement, you probably haven’t, if you haven’t done it once, you’ve probably done it at least a thousand times. want to admit to it because then it looks like, well, you know, it’s bad, but for the right reason, nobody’s ever going to question the mission statement.

if somebody says, well, Bart, I want to see this person’s documentation got from the doctor. Well, I don’t see it in his file. It’s like, oh, well, I guess I misplaced it or whatever, but you’re going to tell me that you wouldn’t let me have this guy get a service dog because he didn’t have the right documentation.

And that’s like, Now, we’re here to help them get through with whatever they need. So, if they don’t fill out the application, it’s the only way you don’t get in the program. You have to fill at least your part of the application to move [00:55:00] forward. Otherwise, you know, I’ll help you all you can, but you gotta take that first step and fill out your part.

If you need help filling out your part, no problem. We’ll help you fill it out. But it’s your want to be in this program. It’s your opportunity to seize when you see it. So,

Scott DeLuzio: love it. I love it. Um, and thank you again, Bart, uh, for, for taking the time to come on and sharing, uh, everything that you guys do. Appreciate it.

Bart Sherwood: well, thank you, thank you. very much. It was an honor and privilege.

Scott DeLuzio: Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to [00:56:00] podcasts.