Episode 454 Christopher Maher Wellness Techniques for Veterans Transcript

This transcript is from episode 454 with guest Christopher Maher.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio. And today my guest is Christopher Maher. And at the age of 22, he was a Navy SEAL and one of the fittest people on the planet. But despite his. Peak physical condition, he struggled with the impact of stress on his physical, mental, and emotional well being, and through a journey of relentless self exploration and healing, he developed a comprehensive system for total physical, mental, emotional, and Spiritual healing and integration.

And we’re going to talk about that and how service members and veterans can learn from these experiences, uh, in just a minute. But, uh, before we get into that, Christopher, I want to welcome you to the show. I’m really glad to have you here.

Christopher Maher: Thank you. I’m happy to be here in the show serving them

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And so,

Christopher Maher: a fellow veteran.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, like, yeah, likewise. I’m glad to have you here. And [00:01:00] I, I feel like, um, you know, anytime I have veterans on the show, which is, you know, quite frequently, um, you know, you and I started talking a little bit before we started recording here, um, spoken in person prior to this. Um, but it’s almost like there, there’s this, this instant connection between veterans.

Uh, you start to, um, you know, just, yeah. Have that kind of commonality and different bonds, you know, maybe different branches of service, but there’s still some shared connection there. And, uh, you know, we kind of just start flowing with the conversation pretty naturally. So, um, Let’s get back into your story here.

I’d like to start maybe by talking about your journey from being a Navy SEAL to your current work and with what you do now.

Christopher Maher: Oh, that’s like, that’s a very open question.

Scott DeLuzio: I like to keep it open, you know, so that way you, you can kind of flow with it how you want.

Christopher Maher: you know, my journey in the military is unique [00:02:00] because I lost my mom when I was seven years old. She committed suicide. And at the time there was. You know, this is 1976, there was no concept of mental wellness, and she had, had an event that occurred where someone broke her boundaries, and she was a very sort of righteous person and moral, so she started, um, sharing all over town what happened, and she got put into a, a psych ward, and they gave her electric shock therapy. Until she agreed that that didn’t occur and signed some paperwork. And so, um, so I was growing up underneath her care and she was very interesting because she was a bit militant, [00:03:00] right? But then she would flip into like super, super sweet and then back to really militant. And I didn’t know at the time, you know, she was attempting to protect me and she was doing this from a place of love and care.

All I knew is I was scared of my mom, like you didn’t ever want to do anything wrong around her. And so after she died, I bounced around in foster care for a while. And, um, I think after about seven months, seven and a half months, I got an opportunity to go to boarding school. And, you know, the name of the school is Milton Hershey school and Milton Hershey school is run a bit like the military in the sense that you wake up the same time every day.

So it was, uh, The later parts of school, I was waking up at 5. 30 every morning, going to barn, working super hard, you know, uh, getting back into the house by like 7. [00:04:00] 15. Um, no, 7, breakfast at 7. cleaning up dishes from 7. 30 to 7. 45, getting ready for school from 7. 45 to 8 o’clock, and at 8 o’clock you better be in a van or the van leaves without you to go to school, and then you’ve got to walk, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10 miles. And so, um, I had already had that military training and, you know, they’re checking your bed every day. Like, you remember boot camp, right? They’re checking the corners on your bed. So, so, so when I went to boot camp, boot camp was kind of like a joke for me because I’d already had 10 years of that. Like, I don’t have to create perfect creases and corners on my bed at 7 years old.

You know, um, so, I think that training in my younger years really helped me cope in the military. Helped me, um, know how to [00:05:00] relate to guys, and, uh, you know, how to find your place within a group. Because that can be difficult if you don’t know how to do that. If you grow in a household, it’s just like you, your mom, and your dad, and your brother, and that’s it.

You know, how do you learn how to fit in with like 15 or 16 different people? And, you know, regardless of the branch that you’re in, you’re always broken up into smaller groups.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

Christopher Maher: And so, you know, boot camp was in Great Lakes. I was in the Navy. Obviously, you have to be in the Navy to become a Navy

Scott DeLuzio: sure.

Christopher Maher: Um, but there is a little caveat there that if you, uh, they have the Naval Special Warfare Center, but that belongs to JSOC.

And if you were a Marine or you were an Army Ranger or Green Beret, you could get the opportunity to enter into BUDS. And you go through training. And, um, [00:06:00] Buds. I loved Buds. Like, you wake up, you’re working out all day. Right? You’re eating, and then you’re, you know, you’re, some guys are going out and they’re partying, and some guys are going right to bed.

And I was one of those guys that kept really a low profile in SEAL training. As low as a profile as I can, you know, like you’re, most of the guys in SEAL training are white, you know, it’s just like every other class there’s like one Latino, and then there’s, you know, every like third or fourth class, there’s one African American, right?

So it’s, uh, It’s, it’s a different, you know, it’s, it’s like, it’s, it’s a different vibe and I liked it, right? Like, I like pushing myself. I like being challenged, um, but I was very lean and what I mean by that is I had very little body fat. And so we had these long ocean swims and we had at the time what they referred to as surf torture. [00:07:00] So you gotta lock, you gotta lock arms, walk into the ocean, you know, to your butt, uh, you know, hip deep and then sit down and let the cold waves crash over and over and over again in your head and make sure you, you know, keep your arms close together because if you break that chain, they’re going to pull you out of the water.

They’re going to turn you into a sand cookie. You got to roll around in sand and you know, and I was someone who I was on the spectrum, right? And so, You know, when you’re on the spectrum, everything for you is heightened. It’s much more sensitive, right? Your smell is much more sensitive. Your, your skin fabric touching you.

And so when I was a child, I could never play in the sandbox with all the other kids. Because all those other textures, I couldn’t calm down. They just freaked me out. It was just too much. It was just like sensory overload. And so here I am, like a person [00:08:00] who’s on the spectrum, and I’m in this environment where I’ve got all these intense textures against my body.

So in a certain way, it, It numbed me out from all that, that high sensitivity that I was having with my smell, with my hearing, with my vision, with my touch, with taste. And I got through SEAL training. It was a lot of work. I had a very unique path because they had misdiagnosed me as a probable epileptic.

So I had to go through this six month process. Being retested, you know, taking this doctor who’s an officer to court to plead my case to show that he was negligent

Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

Christopher Maher: in the way that he was going about what he was doing. And then, you know, I had to go to a physical evaluation board. So getting through SEAL training was like, it wasn’t I just showed up, I worked [00:09:00] out hard and then I graduated.

Like, it was full of challenges. The hypothermia was a challenge. I had full blown hypothermia. Like a bunch of times I got hospitalized for ventricular fibrillation, which is a heart attack. Um, and then I fell off the slide for life and SEAL training. I got rolled back and it was, It was a thing. And then me in a second phase instructor, you know, um, he sort of had it out for me for some silly reason and he was going to make it almost impossible for me to graduate.

I had to work through that. So me getting through SEAL training was an absolute miracle. And then getting to the SEAL teams was like kind of easy. And then, you know, I, uh, Oh, [00:10:00] this is funny. Um, we went to celebrate our graduation from advanced version of training that you go through before you receive your trident and become a SEAL team member.

And, um, I was one of the guys that didn’t drink. So I was with my class. We’re out at a bar. They’re having fun. And then it’s time to go. And now these guys are like trying to start a street fight with us. And I just go over to cops and go, look, man, there’s these clowns over here. We all just graduated from SEAL training.

These guys are trying to cause a ruckus. We just want to go back and get out of here. Can you come sort this out? And he was like, turn around, put your hands behind your back. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude, I’m trying to de escalate the situation. And you’re putting you, you want to put me behind bars?

Like, this is weird. So, [00:11:00] so one of my guys, uh, While he was over there dealing when it snuck in, got me out of the cop car. I’m running down the street with my hands behind my back uh, come around a corner. I’m hiding in bushes. I got white pants on and a white shirt and I’m like, this isn’t going to work. And, uh, I come out, police come around the corner, toss me on the hood, slam my head down. It was just like a whole mess. Showing up at SEAL Team 5. Right? They’re like, my first day I’m showing up, leaving jail, and they’re like, who’s this dude? So, I had a very interesting entrance into the SEAL teams.

Scott DeLuzio: This, this dude’s one who’s willing to take one for the team, apparently.

Christopher Maher: yeah, I took one for the team, and yeah, and then, you know, you get fined, I had to go to court, it’s just all this silly, of course the case got dismissed, but [00:12:00] somehow, you know, through the grace of God, you know, I was meant to graduate and go through these things, and I think all of it made me a better person, but I’m very resilient, and I don’t really take no for an answer, like, I will figure out a way, I’m like a slippery eel.

I’ll figure out how to get outta the grip of what you’re trying to hold me into, to get to the place where I really want to be. you know, SEAL training was powerful in the sense that I, I had a rite of passage, you know, and I didn’t have a father growing up. And so I had men that I looked up to. That, you know, were hardened by the process of SEAL training and the SEAL teams.

And when I walked across that stage, I felt like a man. Felt like I was in charge of my own destiny. Yeah. So.

Scott DeLuzio: So, so that, that [00:13:00] got you through that got you into the SEAL teams, right? So you’re, you’re, you’re doing that. How long were you in the still in, how long were you in the SEALs, uh,

Christopher Maher: was in the military for eight years and three months. And then the Naval Special Warfare Community from 1990 to 1997.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay. Okay. So, so yeah, so you get, get through all that. Um, Once when training is over, once when BUDZ is over, that’s not it though, right? There’s ongoing training.

Christopher Maher: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: a stressful, it’s a stressful job to have, right?

Christopher Maher: Yeah. 1000%. And when you’re young, you know, you’re adding to that stress because you’re trying to figure out how to manage stress. And, you know, you’re in school, you hear, I went to college, so you hear this, this, uh, framework. There’s two types of stress. There’s positive stress, which they call eustress, and negative stress, which they call distress.

And I [00:14:00] don’t think at the time that I was realizing that the job had positive stress, but also negative stress. And I didn’t realize it at the time they weren’t talking about complex stress or post traumatic stress or, um, or the effects of stress and how that might show up the symptoms that you could look at or read about to see if you were under complex stress.

And so I was not the person who was a drinker. And then when I got into the SEAL teams, I was managing my stress with alcohol. And I didn’t even know it. I just thought, all right, we’re just, we work hard and we play harder. That was, that was the motto, right? Like, work hard, really play hard. And, you know, I think I took on that identity and I took it a little too far, right?

And [00:15:00] it wasn’t something I planned, you know, but I just enjoyed having fun. It was like, I was confident, I was strong, I was direct, I was feeling good, and You know, there was a social environment, San Diego, like San Diego is a great place because everybody’s laid back and chill. So I just wanted to chill.

And I was never the type of person who had a drink at home ever. And, but when I went and I socialized, I dove into what everybody was doing. I just didn’t know that there was a cost.

Scott DeLuzio: And how did you see this cost kind of develop over time? Like, obviously the, the environment that you were in kind of led you to, coping this way through, you know, drinking and party and doing all that kind of stuff. Right. Over time, you know, you know, maybe, maybe doing that once or twice. It’s not such a big deal, but over time as that [00:16:00] kind of builds and builds and builds, it becomes a bigger deal.

And how did you see that kind of did that deteriorate your mental state, your physical state, you know, any, how did you see that

Christopher Maher: I think the way that it manifested for me is I became careless in my relationships, and I wasn’t communicating to anyone what I was going through. So if I had pain in my body, even if I had something as silly as a headache, I kept all of those kinds of things that I was dealing with internally to myself, and I think it generated internal isolation,

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Christopher Maher: which made it difficult for whoever I was in relationship with to really connect to what was going on with me. And then, you know, when you become careless in a relationship, you’re not communicating, it begins to deteriorate.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, for [00:17:00] sure. Yeah. I think the foundation of any relationship. Is going to be good communication. Um, and that’s, that’s more than just, uh, you know, uh, a marriage or partnership in that, that sense, but like any good relationship, it could be a working relationship. There’s gotta be some communication, even, you know, even in the SEAL teams, if you’re not communicating with each other, that’s, that’s gonna be a problem.

You know, if, if you don’t know what’s going on, you know, a battlefield or something like that, that’s, that’s a big problem, right?

Christopher Maher: yeah, I think communication in the SEAL team is probably like an all military thing. Communication is top down,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Christopher Maher: and so if you’re at the bottom of the rung and you’re just getting into the SEAL teams, um, your communication doesn’t really have any value because there’s guys that are hardened vets that have been, you know, they’ve been on six or seven or eight deployments.

So, my first introduction to my platoon, my first platoon, was you’re a new guy [00:18:00] in FNG. A fucking new guy and I better never hear your voice,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Christopher Maher: which meant you’re here to sit back and learn how

Scott DeLuzio: For

Christopher Maher: to conduct yourself as a SEAL.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely.

Christopher Maher: I was like, okay, I thought it was going to be like SEAL training in a sense.

Like I got my buddies, we’re all in the same class, we’re having a good time together. We’re learning together. It was like, nope, you’re on the bottom of the rung and we don’t give a shit. You’re here to learn and you shut your mouth. And you learn how to be an operator.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah. So, so how did you find that you, you handled this? Um, you know,

Christopher Maher: I didn’t cope with that well at all.

Scott DeLuzio: not, not well at all.

Christopher Maher: No, no, because I have a very strong, well defined ego. And if I have to sit like the quiet guy in the corner, [00:19:00] right, then it’s, it’s just not my personality to be that way. You know, my personality is to be fun and funny and to joke around and, but now there’s like, there’s this hierarchical, you know, um, strategy in front of me and I didn’t know how to navigate that successfully. Right? And so then I would just start meeting up with guys that were in my class that were on the West Coast and go hang out with them.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay. Yeah. So you kind of eliminate that top down,

Christopher Maher: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just, yeah, eliminate that. But then when you go on deployment, you know, of course there’s a couple guys that were on my, that are, in my class that are in different platoons that are on the same base and then you find you know one or two guys in your platoon that you can kind of relate with and but it’s always your first platoon you always feel like you’re [00:20:00] somehow um second tier.

Scott DeLuzio: hmm.

Christopher Maher: Right? There’s no real space to like spread your wing.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Christopher Maher: And so I just said, look, I’m just, okay, I’m just going to figure out how to operate better than these guys. So I’m going to become, you know, one of the best shots in my platoon. I’m going to be the fastest runner in my platoon. I’m going to be the best performer at this.

And I just said, look, if they’re going to keep me on that rung, they’re going to have to respect I outperformed them. And in the end, they did. And so, you know, that broke down that barrier.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I could see how breaking down a barrier like that through throwing yourself into your work, um, you know, in this case becoming the best shot and the fastest runner, the best at, you know, Whatever drills or exercises that you’re, you’re participating in. Right. Um, that has some positive [00:21:00] implications.

Obviously being a good shot as a TV seal is going to be, uh, important. Um, you know, being a fast runner and being, you know, physical condition, all of those things have positive implications, but, um, it also might take away from other things going on in your life as well. So, you know, be becoming a workaholic is not.

necessarily advisable, uh, you know, a hundred percent of the time. Yeah, sure. Being, being good at your job is, is important, but when, when that’s, you know, working, working, working and working at getting better at all these things, it may not be, um, you know, the best for it, you know, looking at your life holistically, looking at the, the big picture, um, you know, that may not be the best thing.

And so I kind of want to get into, you know, some of the techniques that you develop through your own, Healing, uh, you know, maybe it was after this, maybe it was during, I’m not sure exactly when you kind of discovered that something need, there needed to be some sort of change,

Christopher Maher: Yeah, well, the, the,

Scott DeLuzio: some of that stuff.

Christopher Maher: yeah, the need for a change. Look, I [00:22:00] wasn’t the guy that was, um, um, looking to change the world or add good value in that way. And, uh, help people heal. That I was, you know, really focused on the things that I wanted for myself in terms of recognition and value. And fortunate for me, I got a DUI. And when you get a DUI, and they take your car, and they impound it, and they take your license, and they restrict it for, you know, 18 months, and they force you to go to these, like, classes. Uh, you know, to get an education on alcoholism and, you know, the effects of drinking and driving and all that stuff, then you have to take, like, a good look in the mirror.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm

Christopher Maher: Because now I have to ask other people for a ride to school every [00:23:00] day, because I got class Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and now I gotta ride the bus. So the universe is saying, look, if you can’t get your act together, then you don’t get to have the mobility and the fluidity that other people get to have when they move around the world.

And so, um, that’s something when I look back upon my story was a really big wake up call. And then. When you’re sitting inside of a jail cell and there’s that stark contrast, it’s, I don’t know, one o’clock in the morning, there’s five guys sitting across from me that are in the drunk tank with me, but they’re wasted.

I popped 08. The cops could have followed me home, which was like maybe 500 yards, okay, or they could have taken me to the drunk tank and it was actually two ex Marines. [00:24:00] And they took me to the drunk tank, thank goodness they did, because that is what really changed my reality. And then I called a family member, I let them know what happened, and um, I asked them if anybody else in our family had had those problems, and they sort of just sort of laughed, like, you know, everyone in the family’s an alcoholic. You didn’t understand that because you were in boarding school, and the only time you saw us was at family function. So, you just assumed that we were only drinking then, but no, we were always drinking. And then I got to really deal with that, you know, when you go to AA and you’re in a 12 step program for, you know, five or six months.

You know, you start to understand and you’ve got to see these guys, which I was really young, but you see these guys that are 50 and 60 and they’re, you know, they just, on the break, you [00:25:00] know, they’re pounding two cups of coffee and smoking cigarettes the whole time. And you’re looking at them and you’re like, wow, these guys are really beat up.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Christopher Maher: And I thought, nah, I definitely don’t want to go down that road. So I just decided to call everyone up who I was participating with. In the party scene, and I said, look, if you’re calling me because you want to get drunk or you want to go hang out and get wild, lose my phone number, right, but if you’re calling me up because you want to barbecue, you know, watch, watch a football game, go to a Padres baseball game, uh, come over your house and help you move your furniture or help you in some way, cool, call me.

But if you’re not, if it’s not about that, then I’m no longer going to be coming over.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Christopher Maher: what? Ask me, did anyone ever call me back?

Scott DeLuzio: I’m, I’m, I’m gonna guess no,

Christopher Maher: No. No.

Scott DeLuzio: cause, cause that was the group that

Christopher Maher: like the mayor of San Diego. Like, [00:26:00] I was like fully engrossed in the scene and then suddenly I was gone. And so I think the first step that I took was abstinence. Abstinence from sex. abstinence from alcohol, abstinence from nicotine, abstinence from, um, Motrin, painkillers, abstinence literally from everything. And then I started to, um, just get honed in on getting healthy.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay, so that, that honing in on, on getting healthy, um, obviously you hit that, that moment, that realization that something needs to change and, and you’re ready to make a radical change, even if that meant, you know, Deleting all these numbers from your, your phone book or, uh, um, you know, telling people, Hey, this is [00:27:00] just not for me anymore.

And, and I don’t think that that’s a problem that you tell people, Hey, I’m looking to make some positive changes in my life and. If you’re not on board with that, forget I exist, you know, that, that type of message going to those people, um, you know, I, I think that there’s not a problem with that necessarily, because if you have people in your life who are not on board with you, Doing something bigger, better, getting healthier, not, you know, wasting time, do wasting your life away, um, potentially getting to a point where you’re going to hurt yourself or somebody else with, you know, uh, you know, driving drunk or something like that.

Um, if you got people in your life who have a problem with you bettering yourself, then I’m not so sure that you can actually put that label of a friend. On, on there, you know, acquaintance. Sure. Yeah. But, um, you know, friend, I don’t know, you know, and so maybe, maybe that’s that, that wake up call that you, it’s like, you know what, maybe I need to, [00:28:00] uh, get into a different, uh, environment, a different atmosphere with different people who are going to encourage that.

Um, Even if it’s, hey, maybe it’s just me right now and I’m, I’m on my own and I’m going to do it myself. Um, but then eventually you start attracting those people who are, uh, you know, going to be a positive influence in your life. Um, you know, I, I’ve had guests on this show before who, um, were in similar situations where, whether it was alcohol or drugs or, you know, other, other negative influences in their life.

And it all was just a matter of their, their environment. It wasn’t something that they necessarily wanted to do, it was just everybody who was around them was doing it. And so when they were doing it, they wanted to do it. And, and it, it just made it that much harder to walk away from it. Um,

Christopher Maher: Yeah, um, that dynamic, I think, solidified my ability to no longer over adapt, which I think probably that was one of my [00:29:00] strategies that I use. over relate and over adapt and over adjust my personality in order to be part of the group of what’s going on. And, um, you know, when you’re growing up in a boarding school, you know, you’re universal in the sense because the boarding school that I went to had, you know, we had kids from every race and we’re all living together.

And so you’re forced to over adapt. And it wasn’t something that I volunteered for. I didn’t want to go to boarding school. That’s where my grandmother wanted to send me because I don’t think she thought she had the energetic capacity

Scott DeLuzio: hmm.

Christopher Maher: to raise a few boys. And, um, and so that was going to be a better dynamic for her.

And, um, I know for sure that getting that DUI definitely forced me to, like, [00:30:00] imagine you have a pegboard and there’s the center hole in the pegboard. I needed to figure out how to stay in that hole and no longer over adapt or over adjusted to social or environmental norms and really figure out, like, what really worked for me.

And that was huge. And then the next step was I was training hardcore to set a new goal to get to the Olympic Trials. I think it was a bit of a fantasy. But I put in the hard work and the commitment just like I did in SEAL training. So I basically turned track and field in SEAL training. But you can’t, you can’t approach track and field like you would approach SEAL training.

You need rest. And I didn’t understand that. I just, I took on the old idea, the old adage that, you know, you just work hard and your dreams will come true. [00:31:00] And I found out that will actually, that’s not true. Right? You’ve got to work really smart and you need to really understand like what your limitations are.

And part of my healing process and growth process was ascending out of limiting beliefs like the ones that I picked up in SEAL training. Like, if you’re in pain and you don’t mind, well, it doesn’t matter. Just keep moving forward. Well, that’s totally limiting belief. That’s great for training in the field.

Like, yeah, you get shot, you better keep moving because if you don’t, you’re gonna die, right? Uh, I don’t think that I, at the time, was able to adjust how I was doing things because I was taking on whatever I was doing as an identity. And when you take on an identity, the identity now influences you. into [00:32:00] the next stage that you’re in because you can’t leave the end, you can’t leave the identity behind. And so it took me a while to realize that, you know, SEAL training is a painful experience. And so pain had become a very normal thing for me to feel in terms of like intensity. And so I didn’t know how to turn that off and be able to exercise and move my body in a way that was functional and healthy. I only know, I only had one speed, go hard all day long until you fall down and then get back up.

Scott DeLuzio: know, when you’re, you’re talking about your, um, kind of adaptability to the different scenarios that you found yourself in, uh, different groups of people that you’re around, um, you know, you’re talking before you were in the SEAL team, you were not a drinker. Um, but then you kind of adapted this identity of, [00:33:00] well, I’m a Navy SEAL, I’m hanging out with Navy SEALs, doing Navy SEAL things, um, I’m training

Christopher Maher: harder and play harder.

Scott DeLuzio: you work hard, you play hard, you, you go out and you party and you drink, and that’s just what it is, what it means to be a Navy SEAL kind of in your mind, right?

I’m not suggesting that that is, uh, what everyone has to kind of, Adapt to necessarily, but, but in your mind that that kind of was like, well, this just goes hand in hand with what it means to be a Navy SEAL. So

Christopher Maher: the environment

Scott DeLuzio: yeah. And

Christopher Maher: we’re in and this is how, this is how we do things.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, exactly. And so to my point before, um, when you’re in that environment and this is just how things are, and this is how people operate. Well, okay, well, I’m just going to adapt to that scenario. And. Not, let’s not rock the boat and, and, uh, you know, suggest that we do something else other than what everyone else wants to do, you know, and, and try to, uh, try to do something like that.

So it kind of makes sense how you got [00:34:00] to where you were, uh, in terms of, um, getting in, getting that DUI and having all those, those issues that go along with drinking in excess and, and doing things that, um, you You know, we’re not really you. It wasn’t part of your personality and who you are, um, but it was you adapting to that situation.

And, um, and so you, you, you figured out that, okay, now, now these things need to change, right? Um, and, You’ve, you’ve utilized various techniques and now going forward, you’re also helping other folks, um, you know, through some of the stuff that you’ve learned. And I know you’ve, you’ve studied a range of different medical practices and different sciences and things like that.

Uh, talk to us about how the different, uh, methodologies and approaches that you’ve studied, uh, kind of shape your approach to, you know, overall wellness, longevity, wellbeing, all that kind of stuff.

Christopher Maher: Yeah, I think the, [00:35:00] probably the first thing that the listener needs to know is that, um, by a certain age, um, I was suffering from debilitating states of pain and discomfort. Um, so when you have pain all the time, you can deal with a certain amount, but once it got into the center of my hip, I couldn’t get away from it.

There was no reprieve. And so I had to figure out how to get out of this discomfort. And the only option that was going to be offered to me were painkillers and possibly a Hip replacement. And I was like, no, this is, this doesn’t make sense to me. I didn’t have any physical pain one day. And then the next day I had a lot of pain.

So I was on the journey of figuring out how to transform my pain into pleasure. [00:36:00] And I studied with a lot of people and picked up lots of bits of information and I got to figure out really quickly what works and what doesn’t work for my type of body and the type of stress, the complex stress that I was dealing with.

So because I drove this, my engine so hot, I needed things that had greater force to them. And, um, most of the stuff that was out there when I got started was barely hitting the surface. And it wasn’t until I really started to dig in and really remove these deep layers, you know, surface, medium and deep layers of tension and stress and emotional and structural distortion out of my body that I got to sort of be fully planted in the center of the pegboard.

And unwilling to over adapt or over adjust and really clear on [00:37:00] what my values are and honoring my values every day. So to answer your question in regards to what tools did I use in order to get out of the debilitating states of pain and discomfort that I was in. Um, the first was getting into juicing, right? Juicing and wheatgrass mixed with yoga. I wasn’t getting very far in yoga because I had so much tension in my body I could barely get into the positions that they were in and that was just confusing.

I could see these people crossing their arms over each other doing these little movements and I was as stiff as a board. And so I just kind of was like in class, they’re touching the ground, I’m three quarters of the way, I’m not even three quarters of the way down and that was humbling. And then [00:38:00] I started to get into things like, you know, hot yoga.

So maybe the heat will help. Uh, but while I was in class, it was good. But as soon as I cooled down, I was, I was, I was frozen again. And then I got into, um, meditation, uh, Feldenkrais, the Gosku method, uh, Hellerwerk, Rolfing, like anyone who knew anything, I wanted their help. And look, they got me down the road.

a little bit, but if I needed to go a mile, they took me an inch.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm,

Christopher Maher: And I kept praying every day, like, God, like, you must have created someone that knows more than all of these people. Come on, tell me you did. Okay, like, I can’t be sitting here suffering. And, When you, um, get even a little bit of relief, you start to feel that [00:39:00] stress calm down a little bit.

You start to feel more like yourself. Uh, you’re happy for that little bit. Like, believe me, I wasn’t complaining at the time. This is in retrospect of like, wow, I’ve spent a lot of money and a lot of time working my body through systems that never were able to answer the call. And then I met this guy from an email that a buddy of mine that I, of course, went to boarding school with. Came out, spent a couple weeks with me. He went home and then he sent me an email, said, Hey, look, I saw this guy in Good Morning America. He’s got five stretches that will change your life. And I was like, Hmm, you should take these stretches and you should go change your life. Like, who the hell are you to be telling me I need to change my life?

Like, that’s the attitude I had then. And then three weeks later, Uh, one of my clients called me, this, um, anesthetician, and she said, look, I just saw this guy in Good Morning America, and I know my grandmother liked Good Morning America, and I would watch [00:40:00] morning TV with her, and you would never see the same person on two times in three weeks.

Scott DeLuzio: right.

Christopher Maher: So I said, there must be something here. Hmm. So I went and I investigated, and I found the guy. It took me about six months to track him down, and then he taught me how to use eccentric contractions. Um, and isometric contractions to remove structural tension from the belly of the muscle. And it was very uncomfortable.

Yet, afterwards, I would, every time he would do some work on me, I would laugh like a hyena for like 10 15 minutes. And I was like uncontrollable laughter, right? And I’m just like laughing and laughing and laughing and laughing and laughing. And then we’d go into another position and he would take more stress out of there.

And this went on for four days straight, like maybe a few hours in the afternoon break. But it was like six and a half to eight hours a day that this was [00:41:00] going on. And he’s standing on me and in all these weird positions. And. To make a long story short, I flew back to San Diego from San Jose. And I got on the plane.

Well, when I went to the airport, people suddenly were bumping into me, and I never had anyone bumping into me. And if I was going to grab my bag, whoever was behind me, they just got out of my way. But now that’s not happening anymore. And I got, I went to sit down on the flight, and I put my arm here on the armrest, and the guy was kind of like pushing my arm off the armrest.

I was like, what is going on? And so, uh, it didn’t dawn on me still what was going on. And then people were wanting to like talk to me. What are you doing? I was like, what is happening? Because, you know, when you go through SEAL training, you’re in a SEAL team, you have like this supreme level of focus and intensity.

And if people aren’t on that vibe, they find you intimidating.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-Hmm.[00:42:00]

Christopher Maher: And so they just want to get out of your way, like they don’t know what you’re on, but they know that you’re on something that they’ve never been on, and that makes them feel unsafe. And suddenly people didn’t feel unsafe anymore. Well, I went back and I taught my Wednesday night, uh, women’s class in the bay in San Diego, this place called DeAnza Cove.

And I walk up and I said, Hey. Tonight, we’re going to figure out what you want to do for class, so why don’t you take 15 minutes to warm up and come back, we’ll get started. And they were all looking at me like, where’s Christopher? Like, where is my drill sergeant? Like, where is my Navy SEAL? Like, who is this putz? me what I want, right? Instead of telling me what I need. And at the end of that class, I basically had the insight and I said, look, whatever we were doing before, I’m not going to do that anymore. Whatever that guy was doing to me this last four days, that’s what I’m going to be doing. [00:43:00] And that’s when everything really, really shifted.

Well, on my ride home, I didn’t even know that I was being different because the way that my mind worked, it worked in a retroactive state. So I would go through an experience and then either hours or days or weeks later, I would realize what the experience was about.

Scott DeLuzio: Uh,

Christopher Maher: Because my emotional body was so activated, I was never allowed to process in the moment, because I had such a backlog of tension and stress that was keeping my emotional body from processing decades of experiences.

Well, I got home, and I called him up, and I was like, I don’t know what’s going on. But let me tell you what happened to me at the airport. Let me tell you what happened with the arm rest. Let me tell you what happened. People bumping into me all the time. I like, I don’t know what’s going on, but these are the things that are changing.

So something is happening emotionally and psychologically. [00:44:00] And he just started laughing. He was like, just tell me more. So every day I would go through, I’d take more attention out of my body in the way that he was teaching me, and I would have a completely new experience of myself. But the experience that I was having was my old self.

Before I went to SEAL training, I was in the SEAL team. And it was like every day I was getting a little bit more of me back, and a little bit more of me back, and a little bit more of me back. And I went after it five, six hours a day. on doing this work on myself. And then I recruited friends of mine to come in and figure out how we could do the work on each other and make it more impactful.

And so these techniques and these processes, I just got totally focused on. And I, I, I basically turned heel training, you know, seal training into heel training. And I got down every day. And then I started using other people as guinea pigs, right, [00:45:00] to test my ideas out, and it was producing verifiable, repeatable results regardless of the person.

They were all having the same experiences.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, I, I like the, what you were saying about how, um, you get back to that person before joining the Navy. You know who that, who, who were you before back then? Because a lot of time.

Christopher Maher: silly, funny guy. Uh, you know, just going with the flow, uh, open-hearted, compassionate understanding for everyone’s circumstances. Never judgmental, never critical. Um, yeah, just very open and smooth.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and for the, the people who have never served, sometimes the, the idea that veterans have trouble adjusting to civilian life, that concept is, [00:46:00] it’s hard for some people to understand because it’s like, well, you were a civilian before. Just go back to being that person who you were before, but you get, you get so tied up in this, the, the, the training changes you, your, your identity changes.

You’re, you’re a Navy SEAL and you do Navy SEAL things and you’re, or you’re a soldier, you’re a Marine or you’re an airman, you know, whatever it is you, that your job is you, you do that. And you’re now. You’ve changed, you’ve, you’ve transformed your, yourself into this person that you realistically, you had to be in order to do your job effectively.

Um, that, that’s what basic training does. It, it, it molds you into what the military needs you to be and kind of says, you know, forget about who you were. This is who you are now. And. Then when you get out, and the military does a great job, by the way, of transforming you into this warrior that you need to be while you’re in the military, but when you get out, they [00:47:00] do a terrible job at transforming you back into a civilian,

Christopher Maher: 1000%.

Scott DeLuzio: And trying to, what you were just saying is there, you got to kind of get in touch with that person, who you were, and let some of that person come back in.

And obviously you have your, your Navy SEAL experiences. That is, that’s always going to be a part of who you are. Um, but that’s not

Christopher Maher: it’s not a driver of my personality, meaning it no longer, I don’t hold myself to a standard of performance. I hold myself to a standard of being, and I’m only going to be whatever the moment needs me to be. And however, you know, God or the universe or infinite source is directing me, and it’s got to come from my heart, and it can’t come from some identity.

Scott DeLuzio: And, and the Navy SEAL identity, it no longer serves you as. [00:48:00] Who you are, you know, right? And so of course it’s part of your past and you’re not going to deny any of that past, right? But it doesn’t, it doesn’t serve you any longer to continue being that. That drill sergeant kind of person, or that very militant, very intensely focused, heavily, uh, you know, nobody wants to approach you.

Nobody wants to question you if you’re taking the armrest of the airplane or anything like that. It doesn’t serve you anymore to be that type of person. And so now getting back in touch with that person that you once were, um,

Christopher Maher: It’s freedom.

Scott DeLuzio: freedom. Yeah. It’s, it’s a good thing. Right now, now for some people, they may, they may feel a little scared by that because they didn’t like the person that they were before the military and the military gave them the discipline and things like that.

It’s not saying that you can’t take those bits and pieces that, that. Worked for you and hang on to those things. You know, maybe you weren’t structured and had discipline before you were in boarding school, you had plenty of that, so you didn’t need more of it.

Christopher Maher: No, I [00:49:00] didn’t need more of that. I didn’t need more structure. I needed like, less structure.

Scott DeLuzio: right, right. And so for some people they need the structure, right? But it doesn’t mean that you can’t hang on to those pieces.

Christopher Maher: Yeah, and I think the thing that the listener needs to understand is, what I’m saying is, I was able to shed all the things that were no longer of benefit to

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Christopher Maher: All the goodness I got from SEAL training the SEAL teams, I’ve kept all of that, right? So, I know I’m self motivated, um, I’m articulate, uh, I’m direct, I’m mission oriented, I’m doing it from a different place.

I’m doing it from a place of my heart. And honoring my values rather than honoring their values, right? And the values that you pick up when you’re in the SEAL teams, I got completely different values. And those [00:50:00] were the values that were innate to me before I went to SEAL training. I was in the SEAL team.

Scott DeLuzio: A hundred percent. Yeah. Um, so the work you do now, um, and I, I don’t know if I mentioned this in the intro or not, and I, I probably should have, this might’ve been a miss on my part, but, uh, true body intelligence, uh, tell us about that and what that, that’s all about and, and how, uh, you work with, uh, with folks to, to help them out.

Mm hmm.

Christopher Maher: I think recently I was in a conversation with someone, um, and if you think about true body intelligence is a system that helps you diminish stress, um, emotional stress, physical stress. You know, when you’re an athlete, you’re under physical stress, right? When you’re a mom, you’re under emotional stress.

You know, when you’re, um, when you’re a CEO, you’re under financial stress, right? You’re [00:51:00] under, uh, system stress. You know, when you’re, um, part of a community, you’re under religious stress, right? This is all these levels of complex stress. And so true body intelligence is a system that allows you to reduce Those levels of stress by at least 50%, right?

And imagine if you could take everyone and anyone you’ve ever known and you could reduce their lifetime accumulated stress load by 50%. Well, their vision would get better, their hearing would get better, their smell, their taste, their touch, their awareness of boundaries would increase. And so, what I mean by that is their body becomes more intelligent.

Right? And so, stress basically makes your body dumb. And how do you know your body’s dumb? You have pain. Because if it was intelligent, well we know if you were [00:52:00] maximized in the intelligence in your body, you’d have a body full of pleasure. I don’t really care about people getting to pleasure, that’s not a driver to me.

But for people to get to neutrality, where they might not have pleasure but they don’t have pain, Right? I think that’s a good safe space to get into because in neutrality, you’re never able to over adjust or over adapt because you just simply see things as they are. You add nothing and you take nothing away.

You’re in touch with reality. rather than some projected fantasy that you’ve created around your identity that you think you need to uphold in order to be acceptable, uh, in order to be loved.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Christopher Maher: And so true, the focus of true body intelligence is to help people reduce that lifetime accumulated stress load and then to teach them positive stress management strategies and tools so they can manage their daily accumulated stress.

Now daily accumulated [00:53:00] stress Is very different than lifetime accumulated stress because it’s what you’ve accumulated in the 24 hour period that your sleep was unable to resolve. So insufficient sleep means that you carry Monday stress into Tuesday morning, right? Well, um, I created a term to be able to make people begin to understand the difference between stress And trauma. Okay. And what I created, I said, okay, let’s take those two words, cut them in half and splice ’em together. And I created a word called trauma.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Christopher Maher: and what that is, is stress that is cumulates over time, once it gets to a certain level, it has the same exact impact on you as trauma. And so most humans, um, you know, haven’t been something as tr been through [00:54:00] something as traumatic and, um, demanding a seal training.

Or the SEAL teams. There’s some childhood trauma. Maybe your dad walks out when you’re six years old or, or your mom is screaming and yelling all the time at your father. You know, just those dynamics that go up. that you grow up under in your environment. Maybe they grew up and mom and dad got along great and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.

But let’s say they had, uh, they had a kid that criticized them in school here and there, or they had a teacher that picked on them a little bit or embarrassed them. And now each day, they over adapt a little more and they over adjust a little bit out of their own personality. Well, that’s stressful to your brain because your brain only wants you to be yourself.

Scott DeLuzio: Got it. Yeah.

Christopher Maher: And as you get into these strategies of over adapting and over adjusting, the end result of that is you [00:55:00] accumulate more stress because you’re not being authentic. So, the, the, the greatest producer of stress in anyone’s life is inauthenticity.

Scott DeLuzio: I can, I can see kind of what you were talking about earlier. Um, where, when you first discovered, uh, some of the, the stuff that was helping you in your, your journey, um, that you were dealing with a backlog. Of stress, right? From years and years of, uh, yeah, decades of, of stress that was just accumulated, uh, within you so that you couldn’t, you couldn’t process the daily stuff because you’re still, that, that was like, you know, take a number, get to the end of the line, uh, kind of thing, right?

Because I’m still dealing with 10 years ago stuff. And, you know, 20 years ago stuff, uh, we’ll get to you later, you know, in, That just adds to the overall [00:56:00] stress and that ends up never really getting resolved because, you know, for, for those little daily things that, that happen, um, that you’re not dealing with it, if it never gets resolved, it gets pushed to that, to the back of the line.

You, you’re sitting there, you know, basically saying to yourself, I’ll, I’ll deal with that later, but you’re not going to remember that five years from now, when it gets to the front of the line, um, you’re not going to remember it that well, that you’re going to be able to deal with it as effectively as you would, you know, today.

Christopher Maher: Yeah. And you’re not going to remember it cognitively, but your body’s going to remember because it’s still sitting in there.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So, so it’s not going to be, uh, as effective as if you’re just like, Hey, you know what? Let’s write right here right now. Let’s deal with this and let’s figure out what’s going on. And, and let’s, uh, let’s file this one away and, and get, move on from this. Right.

Christopher Maher: Yeah. And think about it. Pain [00:57:00] and discomfort and confusion and anxiety. Yeah. And anger and fear, they’re the last indicators that something is wrong. Most people think that they’re the first. So when you get into a perpetual or a semi chronic or chronic state of anxiety, it means that something’s been going on for decades, for a very long time.

That now your body said, look, I gotta remind you every single day that something’s wrong. And so, okay, oh, I need to turn up the anxiety. Oh, you’re not getting it. Let me turn it up to 60 percent now. Oh, you’re still not getting it. You’re not taking action to help me. Okay. We’re going to turn that up to 85%.

And so the thing about the body that, you know, I want the vets to understand is that whatever’s in your body is in your life. And so if you have pain in your body, whether your neck is stiff or your shoulders stiff, your hip is stiff, or your knees are stiff, [00:58:00] or you’re an insomniac, um, or, you know, you need to, the only tools you have access to to manage your stress load or marijuana and alcohol and caffeine, you know, all of these are signs, these are like flashing red lights.

On the dash of your car that’s telling you your engine is too hot and you’re losing water. and your oil is too low. And so when you have that first indicator goes off like, and you got shoulder pain, you need to use your mind to go, okay, so I have shoulder pain and I heard from Christopher that when I have pain, that pain is the last indication that something is wrong and it’s not the first.

Oh, what’s been going on in my life for the last six months that I’ve been avoiding? Cause usually. It’s an avoidance of some issue [00:59:00] with your identity and a reluctance to be authentic in yourself. And you need to then, once you make that decision to resolve your shoulder, or your sleep issues, or your alcoholism, or your, uh, public fighting, like whatever it is, once you make that decision, you have to go through your history with a fine toothed comb.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm,

Christopher Maher: And you need to go, okay, well what’s this about? Oh yeah, so, so mom, how did, how was dad treating you the first five years of my life? Well your dad, you know, you kids didn’t know him then, but he was mean, and he was nasty, and he was passive aggressive, and he was screaming and yelling, because children. have maybe, adults have maybe one or two subconscious precognitive memories, but they don’t remember the real environment and the interpersonal dynamics that were going on that caused them to [01:00:00] over adjust and over adapt. out of their authentic personality to take on a negatively conditioned personality that would be acceptable to the parent.

And so when we look at stress, and we look at tension, and we look at emotional, instructional, psychological distortion, the biggest factor of that is subconscious Precognitive function from womb to seven and unconscious precognitive imprints from seven to 13. And mostly when I’m working, when I’m using these tools and I’m working with someone, I’m really looking at their lifetime accumulated stress load.

But then on the fifth day, because I spend five days with people on the fifth day, I teach them systems that they can use to deal with their daily accumulated stress. Take all of that out every day, and then take a little bit of the big piece of pie, take a little tiny bit [01:01:00] of that out, and then every day, they’re getting a little better.

Their vision’s increasing, their hearing’s getting better, their sleep is getting better, their communication is getting better, their sense of who it is they are, their unwillingness to over adapt and over adjust is getting better, and they’re getting really, really, Clear on what their own sense of values are and when you’re honoring your particular set of values every day You’re building self esteem. And then once you have self esteem, you don’t need identity anymore because identity is only an interference to your authenticity

Scott DeLuzio: Gotcha. I think for there’s probably some listeners out there who are thinking themselves. Yeah, this might, this guy might be onto something here. And I, I might need some, uh, I might need some work in this area, uh, you know, of my life. [01:02:00] Um, where can people go to find out more information about what you do and, you know, maybe, maybe to reach out and see if they can’t, can’t get some help from, from you or, you

Christopher Maher: yeah, yeah, that’s easy I’m all over YouTube, like, I do tons of podcasting, I’m interviewed by a lot of people, everyone has a slightly different angle, so we give slightly different information each time, um, they can go to TrueBodyIntelligence. com There’s enough information there to lead you to the book.

I suggest you read the book. If you don’t like reading, most people have shifted to listening to books these days. And so the book is on audio on my website at truebodyintelligence. com. Download that and it’s easy. You’re just going to email my assistant, assist. rit at gmail. com.

And then once you’re done reading a book, she’ll set us up on a call and the call is free. I’ll spend 30 [01:03:00] minutes to an hour helping you create some strategies that will create a successful pattern interrupt from the things that you’re suffering from. Right? So, because I’ve had basically all of them grouped together at one time or another, and if you’re financially challenged, I will figure out strategies that you can use that don’t cost you any money. Right? So you don’t have to look at me like, well, this guy’s all over the internet and he’s got a book and I was going to be expensive. I can’t afford him. Like forget all that. I will figure out a way to get you to some tools that will be able to add good value to you. And I will only lead you to tools that I used myself.

Scott DeLuzio: excellent. And, um, I, I know, I know there’s people out there who are, uh, probably resonating, this message is resonating with them. Um, you know, so I, I want to, [01:04:00] uh, encourage them to, yeah, follow, follow those links. Um, and I’ll, I’ll put these links in the show notes, um, you know, for the, for the listeners, make it super easy, uh, for you to, to find all this

Christopher Maher: And I forgot one. You know, people are into like the quicker ones. If you go to like TikTok or Instagram, I always leave like a 25 or 30 second download about some aspect of stress or some new perspective that you could take or some action that you could take. And you go to Christopher Lee Maher, M A H E R, at Instagram and you go to Christopher Lee Maha on TikTok.

If you go to Facebook, True Body Intelligence. If you go to YouTube, True Body Intelligence. You go to my website, True Body Intelligence.

Scott DeLuzio: excellent. And again, I’ll put all these links in there in the, uh, the show notes too for, for folks, regardless of where you want to consume the content, whether it’s, you know, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, wherever, um, you’ll, you’ll be able to grab those [01:05:00] links from the, the show notes and, uh, and, uh, And make it, uh, super easy to get in touch there, but, uh, I do want to thank you, uh, Christopher, really for, uh, sharing your, your techniques and, and your story, uh, really, because I think the story is important, um, to, to share that, you know, Hey, you were there too.

Um, you, you had these issues, didn’t know really why they were happening or how you got there, but it’s like, I know something needs to change. Um, and, and sharing that journey, uh, toward, towards, you know, a better life and better health. Um, and, uh, you know, helping folks, um, find that, that. For themselves as well, I think is important too.

And I want to thank you for, uh, not only your service, but the work that you continue to do, uh, in, in helping people, I think is super important. And, uh, and, and thank you for taking the time to come on the show and share, uh, this message with us.

Christopher Maher: thank you. I’ve loved every second. I’m happy to serve and um, look man, you know, I think as [01:06:00] you get older and I think you’ll probably resonate with this, what you really care about is service and adding good value to other people’s lives. Because what is more, for me, you know, there’s nothing more important than that. And, you know, once you have a home that you like to live in, and you know, you have established professional life that you enjoy and love, well, now you have time. How am I going to spend my time? Like, this is the prudent action to honor what I believe I was created for, which is to add positive value to other people’s lives.

Scott DeLuzio: And one of the most valuable things that I think anybody has is their time. And. When you are able to give some of that time to help out other people, um, I feel like, yes, it doesn’t give you more time back, obviously, but, but it, it, it gives you, pays you back, um, in ways that, uh, financially doesn’t. It doesn’t compute.

[01:07:00] Um, you know, it’s, it’s better than, than financial, uh, gain, obviously, like you said, you need to have that stability, that security, you know, a house that, you know, you’re secure in and, you know, have it, have a, a job that puts money in the bank, but when you’re able to give back to other people, um, you know, that, that just means so much and it, it feels so great.

And, and so, um, you know, I a hundred percent agree with what you’re just saying there. So,

Christopher Maher: Well, look, thank you, too, for doing what you’re doing. We need more people like you. That are interviewing people like me and getting good information and, um, tools out to people who are in a difficult place. And maybe all they’re looking for is a little bit of hope. Maybe they’re looking for a tool. Maybe they’re looking for a book.

Like, whatever they’re looking for. You know, you’re taking the time out of your day to provide at least an opportunity. And I think that’s awesome.

Scott DeLuzio: hundred percent. Thank you so much for that. And, uh, [01:08:00] and for the listeners, again, check out the show notes, get all those links and, uh, and go, go check out what Christopher has to offer. Uh, thanks again.