Episode 461 Dr. Josh McConkey Lessons in Resilience from a Combat Physician Transcript
This transcript is from episode 461 with guest Dr. Josh McConkey.
Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio. And today my guest is Dr. Josh McConkey. Uh, he is a colonel, an author, an emergency physician, uh, Jack of all trades, he’s got it all. Um, you know, but he’s dedicated his life to the service of the military community, transforming his own experiences into high impact solutions for the world.
for those in need. And today we’re going to discuss his experiences, uh, his motivations and learn how to handle the numerous stresses that come with serving, uh, in the military. And before we get into that, I want to welcome you to the show, Dr. Josh, glad to have you here.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Thank you, Scott. I appreciate it.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, so your background is in emergency medicine, um, which, you know, that, that takes a special kind of person, I think, to be able to handle the, the unexpected, the unknown.
You, you have no idea when you walk into work, uh, you know, what is going to be thrown at you because by their very nature, emergencies, they just, [00:01:00] they just get thrown at you. Right. So,
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, I’ve always been a big adrenaline junkie. So, uh, you know, just I get bored super easy. So I got to stay on my toes or I just get bored.
Scott DeLuzio: Right, exactly. And I would imagine a lot of people who are successful in emergency medicine have to be somewhat like that because things just are always being thrown at you, right?
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah. Yeah. It’s just, it’s just managing chaos all the time. It’s, it’s crazy.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Uh, so how do you see this, your background, uh, impacting your abilities to handle stressful situations that, that come with military service and, and not, not just military service, but also the, you know, emergency service. Like how, how is it that you’re able to, uh, kind of hone in, like when that, that chaotic thing happens, how are you able to focus on that one problem?
Or is it like you’re juggling 10 things at once and, and you’re, you’re just doing the best that you can with what you have to work with.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, you know, you learn to compartmentalize. You [00:02:00] can only deal with one, maybe two, like, real emergencies simultaneously. You know, you get tasks saturated, so you’re juggling lots of different things at once, but as far as, like, real crazy immersion type stuff, you know, one or two simultaneous, anything more than that, it gets a little bit overwhelming.
Overwhelming. And hopefully you’ve got a good team around you, but you know, with the years of service, I spent the first nine years in the army, you know, the one combat tour in Iraq. And that taught me a ton, you know, coming back to civilian life. It was, uh, it was a struggle to come back, which I know you’ve, you’ve had a chance to experience yourself, but when you, when you come back from a combat zone, it’s kind of hard to plug back into normal society.
Again, a lot of listeners out there can certainly relate to that, but, um, yeah, you just got to learn to compartmentalize and just take, uh, One emergency at a time, unless it’s super crazy. Yeah,
Scott DeLuzio: when I got back from Afghanistan. Actually, I was home on leave. We had like a two week leave. And so I was home. And it was kind of mid tour. And [00:03:00] so I came home. And I was with my wife, we walked into a store and I just had a panic attack. I was like, where’s my weapon? What happened?
Where did my weapon go? And I’m, I’m like, I’m like, I’m, I’m in, I’m in Walmart. I like, well, actually, I was gonna say you don’t need it there, but you might need it there. But, um, um, but I was like, it’s, it’s not, it’s not like the end of the world. I’m not, I’m not missing anything. Everything’s where it’s supposed to be.
We’re good to go. But, but it’s just like that readjustment, like
Dr. Josh McConkey: those little jarring moments. I had one when I had just just met my wife and we were driving in a car. I just kind of dozed off and there was like this whistling. There was a train and there must have been some screeching brakes. But I was I was kind of half asleep and I jerked awake because it sounded like some incoming rocket fire.
And I just was just looking around. It took me a couple of seconds like, Oh, I’m in South Florida. Everything’s OK. Yeah,
Scott DeLuzio: Right,
Dr. Josh McConkey: just, just, just some of those weird sounds that just kind of catch you off guard, huh?
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah. And so these things happen. And I think a lot of the listeners [00:04:00] can probably relate to, you know, what you’re talking about, what we’re talking about here. Now, I want, I do want to get a little bit into your military experience. You know, talk about your, your deployment, and some of the things that you experienced and that you witnessed.
What are some of the most impactful things in your life that you’ve seen through that, that experience?
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, probably the biggest change for me, the thing that I noticed is, you know, you grew up in America and, and it’s, you know, everything is, um, you know, some people get really tied into how much money you make or what kind of car you’re driving. And you get I was in Iraq in 2007. I was there for the surge, right?
And they shot down eight helicopters in two weeks just before I got there. The day I landed in theater, they shot down one of our helicopters and I was flying medevac. I did one aerosol in the first two weeks I was there. I was kind of paralyzed with [00:05:00] fear. You know, they were shooting down all these helicopters.
There’s mortar fire coming in. And I called my, my cousin, Zach, who’s a special operator. You know, he’s a green beret. And Zach, I. I think I’m in real trouble. I think I’m gonna die here. And he said, well, you know what? Uh, it’s the best adrenaline rush of your life. And once you get over that fear, I just figured, listen, nobody cares what kind of car you drive.
Nobody cares how much money you make. Nobody cares how big your house is. Like, You have a mission to do here. That’s like live or die. And I was flying, you know, medevac and taking care of men and women that were taking bullets for this country. And there’s no greater honor in that. And once you kind of just get over that fear of death, it took a couple of weeks.
It was pretty freaky, but you know, you, you, you, you drive on, right. You move past that and you get things taken care of and let your family know back home. Hey, I love you guys. And it’s, it’s It’s, it’s actually pretty bad here, but it’s okay. I’m here because I want to be here and, uh, [00:06:00] I love y’all, you know,
Scott DeLuzio: that’s a good perspective too, because, yeah, sure, bad things can happen, absolutely, and I think we all kind of come to peace with that when we are deployed, especially when you fursy stuff that happens and, and bad things that can happen, but, um, you know, you’re, you’re talking about like, you know, the type of car that you drive or the house that you live in and, and all these things that, you know, we, as a society here in the States, we, we look at those things like, oh, that guy’s got a nice car.
You must be, you know, super successful. He also might be drowning in debt because he can’t afford the car, right? Like there’s, there’s two sides of that, right? Um, but. You know, when I haven’t been to Iraq, but I know in Afghanistan, um, they are piecing stuff together just to get by, you know, they, they’ll find parts of cars and they’ll, they’ll just Transform it into something else and it, yeah sure, it drives.
It’s probably not safe, but it drives, right? And, [00:07:00] and like that’s, that’s their way of life, and that is just normal to them, and they don’t see anything wrong with it, and um, you know, but you go over there and it’s like just a culture shock seeing just the, the differences. There was one time it was, It was like the body of a car like the chassis and like the engine and everything but it was just wood like panel like wood panels almost like if you were to strap it together like if you’re on a deserted island you were trying to make a raft to get off it was like that and and they just like stuck a seat to it and they were just driving I don’t know how the hell it drove but you know but but it’s it’s just different right it’s just a different way of life um and you And even, you know, in that deployment, what we go through as Americans, and, you know, any of the service members who are deployed from other countries, it’s different than life here in America.
It’s a different mindset, a different attitude. It’s getting through that mission, surviving, you know, living to the next day. And [00:08:00] most people don’t wake up and think about that. Like they take survival for granted, right?
Dr. Josh McConkey: it’s a, it’s, it’s very different and we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re pretty coddled here. in America and we’re blessed, right? I mean, we have, uh, you know, overall a level of security and safety here that a good portion of the world does not have, and we’re very fortunate for that. But I think a lot of the everyday Americans really take that for granted, that they really have no idea how the rest of the world is.
Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah, there’s just so much going on around the world that You know, even, you know, love them or hate them, the media can’t cover everything that’s going on around the world, right? And there’s just so many hours in the day, so many, you know, news stories that they can report on. So they, they pick the ones that they think are going to be the most impactful, the most, You know, important to the people who are listening, um, but yeah, you can’t cover everything, right?
So, um, now going, taking your, your, your service and, and [00:09:00] your work in the emergency, uh, department, what are some pieces of advice that you can share with folks who might be dealing with COVID 19? the stresses of military life or, or even just stresses of transition. Um, you know, just stress in general. I know you’re kind of the adrenaline junkie, but not, not everyone is like that, but, um, and, or even needs to be like that.
But, you know, what are some ways that you kind of cope with some of the stress that you deal with?
Dr. Josh McConkey: You know, just that resiliency is critically important and as a military commander right now, I, I see a lot of the younger 18 to 25 year old range right there that has, has struggled a bit with some of those resiliency and the stress levels just because of the environments that they were raised in. You had an entire generation, you know, that Gen Z, you know, that COVID generation that was locked in their house for two years.
You know, they were shut out of schools and churches and just [00:10:00] not, um, being exposed to different stressors to learn how they can cope and overcome and adapt with that. For me personally, it’s always been physical exercise. I’ve seen some, yeah, just, just as some horrible cases that would. Just churn your stomach.
People do some really mean things to each other. And in some of the really bad cases that I’ve seen, I remember just coming home one day after a baby had passed away. So this was my first sudden infant death syndrome. And you just see how it destroyed that family. And the mom came running in because she was actually, this was at, um, Madigan Army Hospital.
It was the very first one. So the mother was, was, uh, active duty and the husband had come in with, you know, basically a limp baby and we’re working on it for a good half hour, an hour. And we’re not successful, which is always hard, you know, itself, but you’re very focused on the academics and doing the procedures.
And then the mom comes running in just kind of just screaming, Hey, where’s my baby? And you just see everybody break down and cry and, you know, we’re all [00:11:00] crying as well. It’s so hard. But for me, I went home that day and I just went for a long run. I just ran myself until I felt like I was going to throw up.
It’s kind of hard to be too stressed out if you’re, you’re throwing up on the side of the road. So you just, for me, it’s always been physical exercise and then leaning on a strong faith, you know, with, without my faith, I don’t think I would have survived Iraq at all without a strong faith. My, my chaplain.
Jim Higgins, just very integral in my life, he was able to show up on my Assumption of Command, you know, two years ago, which meant a lot to me because he’s dealing with a lot of health issues now. And, uh, you know, just, you know, faith, family and exercise, that’s how I’ve done it.
Scott DeLuzio: You know, I think those are all important pieces. Um, you know, when you’re, when you’re exercising, I know there’s some days I don’t want to get out of bed. I don’t want to go to the gym. I don’t want to go for a run. I don’t want to do any of those things. But I’m like, you know what? Screw it. I have to do it.
I know I have to do it. Because if I don’t do it today, I’m not going to do it [00:12:00] tomorrow. And if I don’t do it tomorrow, I’m not going to do it the next day. And it’s going to continue that trend. So I’m like,
Dr. Josh McConkey: I get real grouchy if I don’t work out.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah. And, you know, it’s not that afterwards I feel like a million bucks and I feel wonderful and awesome and everything, but I feel better than I would if I hadn’t done it, right?
Um, yeah, sometimes you run yourself until you want to puke and that, that isn’t exactly the best feeling, you know, but, um, you know, also to your point, you know, it’s, it’s hard to, you know, still be stressed out when you’re, you’re trying to keep your lunch down or, you know, whatever, you know, it’s. Um, it just kind of changes the perspective and maybe brings you into that present moment and, you know, helps you understand like, hey, you know, yeah, this was a terrible situation that, that went on, you know, especially with that, that child and that family.
Um, but life does go on and you standing on the side of the road, puking your guts out, like [00:13:00] that’s, that’s, uh, Proof that life continues, right? And, and you have to keep putting one step in front of the other. Um, you know, one foot in front of the other and, um, you know, realizing, hey, I, I do have a family. Um, you know, for a lot of us, you know, we do have families and, um, that’s an important aspect as well to remember, hey, if I’m not getting up, what, what kind of example am I setting for my kids?
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah. My, my three kids, I think about it all the time.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. I don’t, I don’t want to be this, you know, grouchy, lazy, you know, couch potato, whatever, in front of my kids. I want, I want to show them, you know, the values of, you know, hard work and, you know, good work ethic and, uh, you know, putting the, the time in to take care of yourself and, and all that kind of stuff.
I want to show them and kind of lead by example with that. And if I can’t do that, who’s, you know, and my wife, if we can’t do that, uh, And then who is? Right? They’re going to learn from somebody, [00:14:00] and I would much rather be me, right?
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah. You know, and then even sometimes it’s just doing it for the men and women that don’t have that opportunity anymore. You know, some of those men and women that gave that ultimate sacrifice. I, you know, I carried those body bags, you know, off of helicopters. And, you know, I think a lot of times like what I do is I feel like I’m doing it for those men and women that don’t have that opportunity anymore.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.
Dr. Josh McConkey: know, you can’t, you can’t forget them.
Scott DeLuzio: No, absolutely. And those people, you know, I think about them all the time when it’s like I’m on a run or something, and it’s like, oh, man, I just want to quit. I just want to give up right now. It’s like, yeah, but there’s somebody else who would, you know, would have traded everything just to be able to run another step, right?
And, and they, they don’t have that opportunity. So I like this perspective that you’re, you’re bringing to the table here. And, uh, you know, we didn’t talk much about faith, but I think that, um, is something that it’s, a lot of times it’s very personal, um, to, to the individual, [00:15:00] but, um, you know, faith I think can drive you a long way as well.
Dr. Josh McConkey: That can be something different for everybody.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, but. You know, without it and, you know, hope for, for the future and, you know, hope for things, you know, that are better to come and all that, um, you know, then it’s almost like what, what difference does any of it make, right? And then, then, so without that, it’s like, then you, then you start spiraling into some darker places.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, absolutely. Good to have that kind of just some overarching theme in your life, right?
Scott DeLuzio: exactly. Um, and, and you’re talking about some of the younger folks, uh, that, that are, Uh, under your, your command, and some of the struggles that they were having, and I hadn’t thought about it until you brought it up, but the, the COVID era, you know, the, the folks who were locked down for a couple of years, um, you know, we were a few years out from that now, uh, and some of those people are now of the age to be [00:16:00] joining the military.
They’re, they’re on the younger side for sure, but, um, yeah. You know, they might be struggling with some of that, and I hadn’t even considered that until you brought that up, but, um, I was looking at, um, the Department of Defense released, uh, a little while ago, uh, their, their statistics on, uh, suicide numbers in, in the military across all the branches, and overwhelming majority were, you know, We’re folks in their, their 20s, give or take, you know, it was, you know, mid, mid to upper 20s or so.
It seemed like that was like the overwhelming number of people who were having this, these issues were in their 20s. And so it started getting me thinking, it’s like, okay, well, there’s, there’s obviously some issues going on there. You know, but I hadn’t even made that COVID connection until you brought that up, you
Dr. Josh McConkey: important, it’s something I see as a commander and as a physician, so that’s what I do all day every day, and in this younger generation I see increased interest. [00:17:00] Anxiety and the depression and unfortunately suicides. It’s just those years are so critical. You think of when I was in middle school, high school, just everything is awkward and goofy and you’re just learning so much about yourself and kind of where you fit in in the world.
And then you just. Turn it off for two years, and you sit on an iPad, you just isolate yourself from other human beings. That generation, this kind of iPhone generation that’s never known the world without an iPhone, had a little bit of difficulty with some of the basics of communication anyways, and then, so that was just a killer, you know, that whole two year, two plus years right there, and we’re seeing the repercussions of that now in our healthcare system, in our military, in, you know, we got a lot of work to do.
You know, leaders in this country to get this generation, you know, help them out. That’s what we’re here for.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly, and I think these are unfortunately some of the unintended consequences of, I think some of it well meaning, you know, [00:18:00] preventive measures so that people aren’t getting sick and dying and all that kind of stuff. I, like, I understand, you know, where people’s heads were at at the time, but maybe not thinking long term, like, what, okay, what, what is this gonna do long,
Dr. Josh McConkey: it’s those second and third order effects that are always a little bit difficult to predict. And then sometimes you just can’t predict it at all. That’s just
Scott DeLuzio: Well, especially when you have an issue like this that is, it was a global issue, um, it, it affected, um, Everybody from young to old and and every everybody in between and people were just not sure of like how bad can this get because we hadn’t seen something like this you know in recent history anyways and so what do we do and and so they erred on the side of caution and you know didn’t really know what what was going on.
And we didn’t know what was going to happen because there hadn’t really been any, uh, you know, prior history like this where we, we said, okay, everybody locked down, like worldwide, everybody locked down.
Dr. Josh McConkey: [00:19:00] 1917 flu, flu pandemic. That was the last time we’d seen anything like that.
Scott DeLuzio: Right, exactly. And so, you know, unfortunately, history lessons maybe go, go, uh, you know, unlearned or forgotten or whatever. But, um, you know, those, those types of things are, you know, hopefully this will be something that, that we keep a little more top of mind for future, uh, you know, issues. Hopefully there’s no future issues like this, but, um, um, Now, so, so talking about these, these younger folks and, and well, anybody really in the military, what do you think, is there anything more that can be done, uh, within the military medical system to help, uh, or, or, you know, whether it’s mental health or, or physical health, anything like that, to help the service members handle the stresses that they’re dealing with while they’re, they’re on, uh, in, in the service?
Mm
Dr. Josh McConkey: a little bit more detached and having difficulties with the communication, the earlier you can get them like ownership in your [00:20:00] organization, in their unit, their squadron, and really feel like they’re an integral part of that and that what they do matter, the earlier you do that, the better.
So, you know, with that, just the basics of leadership, accountability, you know, trying to build resiliency skills, but just giving them ownership in your organization, you know, as soon as you can, because the more detached they feel, or the less ownership that they personally feel, it’s going to lend itself more towards.
That anxiety and the depression and the separation that just makes everything else worse. So we do a much better job of talking about it and discussing the mental health issues now. So that, that’s, that’s really important, but trying to find what’s the core issue and you know, just their sense of belonging and their ownership is a huge part of that.
Scott DeLuzio: You know, You mentioned that and it’s something actually that we had done when I was serving, this is 14 plus years ago, uh, you know, but something that we had [00:21:00] done, we, we took, uh, you know, some of the, the freshest privates, uh, that, that were in our unit and we would give them a task, uh, you know, some, some training, uh, task and we’d say, okay, you, you go study this, make sure you’re good to go.
You know how to, how to present, how to show us how to do it and you run the training and you, you take it and you teach us. And, and sometimes like the best way. To learn something yourself is if you have to teach it to somebody else. If you have to explain how to do something to somebody else, it helps you learn it yourself.
And so that was the thought process back then is help, help these guys get, you know, up to speed on whatever the task is. Um, you know, it could have been some, you know, basic medical stuff, you know, we’re, we’re infantry. So we all needed to be kind of up on that so we could do basic first aid stuff if things happened.
Right. And so we, we give them that task and it’s like, you. Go ahead and you teach it now, and you teach us how to do it. And, uh, you know, forget rank or anything like that. You’re, you’re the teacher. You’re, [00:22:00] you’re leading this. And, uh, you know, I hadn’t even thought about it from the perspective that you just said of how that now, now they own that.
They’re the ones responsible for teaching that to us and, um, you know, gives them, like, a sense of purpose and a meaning. They’re not just along for the ride, right?
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah. that was a great example that that’s, you must have some great leadership there. Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: it was, I’m not taking credit for, for all of this. This was definitely, you know, kind of top down. It’s like, hey, this is, this is what we, we think we should be doing. And, and so we, we did it. Um, but it was Looking back at it, it was probably great from that perspective, too, because it just gave them that sense of purpose and meaning through those exercises.
And they weren’t, you know, the most complex things, but it gave them something to work towards and kind of build up their skills. A lot of them were, you know, 18, 19 years old. They had never done They never instructed anyone on how [00:23:00] to do anything. They, you know, they had just graduated high school, and they were, they spent their whole life being instructed on how to do things, went through basic training and all that.
They were, they were taught how to do things. Um, but think about it, like, long term, you know, if you’re deployed someplace and, uh, let’s say the, the squad leader or the, the team leaders or the, you know, whoever, they get taken out somehow, um, well, who’s got to step up into their shoes,
Dr. Josh McConkey: Next, next man up.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. So you’re going to have to step up, whether you like it or not, you, you’re going to be that guy.
And so you’re going to have to know how to do not only the, the job of the guy ahead of you, but maybe even two steps ahead of you, hopefully not anymore. But, um, you know, that that’s something that you might just need to get up to speed on pretty quickly. Right. So,
Dr. Josh McConkey: I love it.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah. So let’s talk about your book. Um, you’re the weight behind the spear, um, is the name of the book.
Um, Tell us about the book. What, what [00:24:00] can the listeners take away from the book? Um, you know, key takeaways and, um, you know, anything that they, that can help them in their, uh, life post military.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah. You know, being the weight behind the spear to really kind of understand what that means. You first need to understand the tip of the spear, right? So I’ve been very blessed. I’ve got to work with some special operators, combat search and rescue was medical director for PJs. You know, out there rescuing, you know, men and women down behind enemy lines, uh, some of them were called in to rescue, uh, those children that were trapped in the cave systems in Thailand in 2018, you know, and then some of these people are on these tier one teams, you know, kicking down doors and taking out Bin Laden.
Um, I don’t have those skills clearly, you know, I, I’m an, I’m an emergency doctor. I save lives. I don’t take them, but the best resource that we have in this country, It’s people, it’s teachers, it’s coaches, it’s volunteers, families, you know, those mentors, every single one of these special operators are just true [00:25:00] heroes.
And you know, in most members in the military, I mean, we all have a job to play in that, that we execute that mission. And that’s what makes us the most powerful military on the planet. Every one of us has someone in our life that gave us the confidence to do what we do. Coach, teacher, you know, family member, you’re one of your grandparents, like somebody that’s our best resource.
We need to harness that resource to pick up this next generation. You know, when you talk military leadership, business leadership, just in schools, we need to take ownership of that, of, of, of just this last, however many years, you know, for this generation Z, this COVID generation, that’s lacking a lot of these skills that has a lot to do with some of the decisions we made, you know, during that COVID pandemic, but we got to own that.
We have to recognize there’s a problem because if you don’t recognize the problem, you can’t fix it. And then that ultimate ownership and accountability, that’s what I love about special operations. Everything is their problem all the time, always, like it’s like you own it and you adapt and [00:26:00] overcome period.
You can’t fail. The failure is not an option and you own that problem and you know that this book is really to, it’s a call to action for Americans to get out there and engage in their communities. What they do every day matters and I want them to know that.
Scott DeLuzio: Right. And you think about that, that tip of the spear, you know, those, those special operators, the ones who are, uh, you know, out there, they’re, they’re kicking the doors, they’re, they’re rescuing people. They’re doing all the things that. All the sexy stuff that goes on, you know,
Dr. Josh McConkey: it gets on the movies, movies and books, right?
Scott DeLuzio: exactly, that’s, that’s where the, the book deals and the movie deals come, come from, uh, from, from those guys, um, uh, and which is, which I totally get because, you know, and, and you, I’m sure you understand it too as an adrenaline junkie, it’s like, that’s, that’s like super high speed, uh, kind of stuff that, I mean, and, and not, not to, you know, discount, you know, anyone else’s, uh, you know, like what, what you do, for example, that’s, that’s pretty high speed as well, uh, it, it, [00:27:00] It’s just different, you know, it’s just a different way of, of, of doing things and, um, you know, split second decisions need to be made.
Um, you know, all, all these things, there’s very, a lot of similarities, uh,
Dr. Josh McConkey: everything comes into play there. They’re sports fans out there. Everybody knows Bill Belichick.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Do your job. Do your job. Everyone does their job. This team is successful, you know, we’re gonna get things done. So, you know, everyone can’t kick down the doors and shoot men live in the forehead, right? That’s, uh, but there are hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands of people who are involved from Like point A to point B, putting everything together, everyone doing their job and that’s what it builds up to so those guys can execute at that type of level.
I mean, they can’t do it without us.
Scott DeLuzio: exactly. And I read somewhere, um, that at probably around the time that you were in Iraq, uh, kind of around the height of the war, um. For every one boots on the ground, uh, you know, infantry, special forces, [00:28:00] those types of people, for every one of them, it required eight other people, uh, support, uh, not non combat related, you know, whether,
Dr. Josh McConkey: staff, logistics, medical, you know.
Scott DeLuzio: And, and you had, you had mentioned this, uh, earlier, is, you know, in, in the job that you do in the emergency, uh, department, that you better have a good team. On your side, right? You’re, you’re out there and you’re, you’ve got your hands on the patients and you’re working with the patients, you know, in, in that emergency situation, but without the right support, uh, behind you, you know, you can’t do everything.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Oh yeah, if one person fails, like pharmacy. Nursing, ancillary staff, x rays, labs, you know, waiting on a critical lab, you know, like some serial lactates or just, there’s a million different things that need to come together there. I can’t do my job without everyone functioning.
Scott DeLuzio: Right. And that’s kind of what I, I, I’m taking away [00:29:00] from, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m taking away from what your, your book is talking about is, Look, I, I can do Only so much as a, as a parent, right? But there there’s coaches maybe who, uh, can coach the kid to be a better, you know, football player, or, you know, maybe I don’t know how to play football.
I’m not, I’m not great at that, but there’s, there’s a coach who might be able to, to do that and someone else can kind of step up and, and do that in teachers at, at schools and, you know, all these, all these different people who, Kind of help build up, uh, you know, that, that community and, and help people, you know, raise the, the best, uh, next generation to, uh, kind of take our place at some point,
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, that’s what’s great about having, you know, some of that diversity in your community. Everyone has something different to give. Everyone has a different skill set. You know, some people can coach, well, I played some baseball, you know, I didn’t get to, I did not get to play much football because I weighed 112 pounds in high school.[00:30:00]
So I was, I was a wrestler, you know, learned a lot. That way, you can’t play football at 112 pounds unless you want to get absolutely destroyed. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Self preservation there. I didn’t play football. But everyone’s got something, you know, different skill set. Somebody that just really loves animals, right?
You know, that volunteer work that you do with those animal shelters, and then that animal becomes a support animal for someone out there that’s, you know, working with some mental health issues. Everything comes together when everyone does their job and they have something different to give, so, you know, it’s a lot of different levels.
Just find out where you can contribute.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, especially in the veteran community, in the military community in general, we have a lot to contribute. There’s a lot of lessons that were learned and a lot of skills that
Dr. Josh McConkey: So many unique skills. Oh my goodness.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so many. And, um, Going back to what you were talking about before with the, uh, some of the younger [00:31:00] folks who, um, it’s like, you know, how do we, how do we help these, these folks out?
And it’s like, give them a sense of purpose, sense of meaning. It’s like, if you have a skill, you know, maybe it’s with animals, maybe it’s coaching, maybe it’s something else, you know, whatever it is, um, go and utilize that skill. And kind of find your, your sense of purpose, sense of meaning, uh, out there.
Right. I think that’s kind of the gist of it. Right.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, yeah, no, just be the weight behind America’s spear and you have something to give. Find it. You know, we need you. America needs you.
Scott DeLuzio: know, I, I think about a lot of the, uh, the coaches, like, like baseball, for example, let’s just use that. Right. Think about what that does for a kid other than, yeah, sure. The kid gets to go out and have fun, play baseball. Right. But they learn about teamwork, right. How to work together as a, as a team. Um, They have that athleticism, running and swinging a bat and [00:32:00] throwing the ball and all these things are skills.
Like, I, I’ve seen people from other countries try to throw a ball and it’s, it’s freaking hilarious because they have no coordination and they’ve never done it before and so they’re throwing it and they look like, like a baby giraffe when it’s just born. It’s like all awkward and you know everything.
Like, that’s kind of what they look like and And so, you know, think about, you know, let’s take those skills. So maybe you got a, you know, eight, nine, 10 year old, uh, you know, kid on your, your baseball team that you’re coaching. Uh, let’s take those skills 10, 10, 15 years later. Uh, now they’re in the military.
Um, now they can throw a grenade pretty damn far. Yeah, they can, they can, uh, you know, attack people with their rifle, you know, pretty, pretty well. Um, they have the athletic skills. They, they know how to work on a team together. Um, That’s a pretty big deal when you think about it. You’re like, oh, I’m just coaching a team.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah,
Scott DeLuzio: actually a pretty big
Dr. Josh McConkey: or I’ve always enjoyed sports [00:33:00] and just that team. You know, I had my break in service, so I left the army in, uh, it was like April 2009. I had a break in service until January of 2011. But at that time that I had out, I really, I really missed that team. You know, just, I felt like I was sitting on the sidelines and, you know, all the things that was going on in the news all the time, you know, just, I, I really miss that.
I know a lot of people, when they make that transition out of the military, they miss that as well. You know, so that’s a great way to fill that void, get involved, go coach a sports team, you know, that, that type of camaraderie with some fellow coaches and, and that, that, that team element to the military, that’s very, very similar to what you see in athletics.
So, get involved. Yeah,
Scott DeLuzio: like, with my own kids playing sports, they, at the younger level, it’s very much, in the kids mindset, it’s very much an individual sport. Like I’m just going out there and you know, I’m just going to go get the ball. And you see like on the baseball field, all the kids swarming, like, [00:34:00] like cats to the ball.
Right. And they’re all together. Yeah.
Dr. Josh McConkey: wrestling over each other, throwing sand at each other.
Scott DeLuzio: like, you guys are on the same team.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Those are the
Scott DeLuzio: one person, pick up the ball and throw it. Like, that’s it. That’s all you need to do. Um, but like, as they get older, they start learning, Hey, I can rely on these other people. I don’t have to go run for that ball. That person’s closer to it.
He’ll get it and he’ll throw it to me. And, um, And they start to learn that teamwork, and it’s amazing as you see them progress and get better at the teamwork aspect. Forget about the sport itself, but just the teamwork and relying on the other team members to be able to do their job. Just like you were saying in the emergency room, you need to rely on all those other people.
It’s just such a great thing. So, um, you know, I love that you, you wrote this book and you’re, you’re kind of helping shine, shine a light on, uh, the fact that there is this spear that we can be building up and we, we can be, um, you know, putting this weight behind it, um, by, by helping build up, you know, [00:35:00] America’s youth and, and society in general.
And, um, you know, we don’t need to have, you know, a lot of the division and all this other crap that’s been going
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, boy, it’s been pretty crazy, it’s the most divided, you just look even generationally or politically as it’s been in a very long time, you know, I’m 47, it’s the craziest I’ve ever seen it.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I’m, I’m not too far off there. Um, and yeah, it’s, it’s about as crazy as I’ve seen it too. So, um, so could you share maybe a couple experiences, uh, from your book, uh, that, that kind of, um, might highlight some of the, the kind of things that you’re, you’re talking about here and what, what people can expect from it?
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, you know, just some great stories on, you know, how to be The weight behind the spear and just some different, you know, accountability, uh, overcoming obstacles and decision making. And there’s a couple in there on how to not be the weight behind the spear. So I learned some very, very painful lessons in, in Texas.[00:36:00]
I owned a freestanding emergency department. So I owned a part of one and didn’t make some good choices about the team that I chose to surround myself with. Uh, I learned about a year or so into the job, even though we’re making crazy money, we’re very successful that, um, I had a CEO that Embezzling money, doing some very sneaky things, writing off lawsuits from other businesses that had crazy allegations of sexual harassment and ridiculousness.
And then there was some, what I felt was some, some problems with Medicare and Medicaid fraud and had brought those up to the CEO. He owned majority shares in the business. So in Texas, if you don’t have majority ownership, you have to tread very lightly. He initially offered me when I approached him about it, I had applied for a national security position.
So the national security council, uh, I do emergency management, I’m an emergency physician and EMS disaster medicine fellowship board certified. So there were some great opportunities on the national security [00:37:00] council and applied. And when you’re going for that level of a security clearance, uh, they’re asking some questions and.
With the business, I gotta be honest. I’m like, ah, I cannot, uh, I can’t be part of this. So I went to the CEO and he went berserk. He offered me a 3. 4 million bribe. And I told him to shove it up his rear end. That was, that was, that was fun. Everybody thought I was crazy, but you know, Hey, I’m a Colonel in the United States Air Force.
You can’t buy me. And I know now that he had been through several lawsuits at other businesses and always, you know, People off with bribes and then non disclosure agreements. And he unfortunately ran into the one dude that’s going to turn down 3. 4 million. So, I mean, I had reports into the Texas department of insurance and the FBI and then COVID hit.
So he tried to bankrupt the company because he controlled the bank account with majority ownership. Just starved everybody out, refused to give distributions. Uh, we filed a lawsuit and everything froze. You [00:38:00] couldn’t get a court date because of COVID.
Scott DeLuzio: Oh,
Dr. Josh McConkey: it was just a, it was a complete nightmare at the end of the day, like he literally threatened my family.
He knew I wasn’t going to budge. He just got crazier and crazier. And at the end, he sent a henchman from, uh, from Louisiana. Hey, Josh, you better be careful. He knows some pretty scary people. I’m like, Oh, I was, uh, I was rather upset. I take that personal when you threaten my family. So we ended up moving to Australia for a year during COVID, which was super crazy as well, just with their COVID lockdowns.
And I just learned some very painful lessons there. You know, the world is not a shiny, happy place and there’s just some bad people. And sometimes you just have to, uh, own those losses and just move on. I lost 5 million.
Scott DeLuzio: Wow.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah. You know, it is, is, is horrific as that, as that is. And you know, it’s been a couple of years now, so I can talk about it without getting super upset.
But then February of this year, when you talk about karma, you try to do the right thing and just, you know, take care of your family and [00:39:00] do your job. In February, I won the lottery. So then I literally won the North Carolina educational lottery. So at the end of the day, uh, you know, it all comes out in the wash.
That good karma comes my way and we’re, we’re doing just fine. But you know, it’s, it’s not always a shiny, happy place as most military members know, and you just take care of yourself and, you know, you can’t control what other people do. There’s going to be some crazy people doing terrible, bad, evil things out there and you just take care of yourself and make some decisions for you and your family and end of the day it all works out.
Scott DeLuzio: Wow. That’s, that’s actually, that’s an amazing story.
Dr. Josh McConkey: insane.
Scott DeLuzio: like some of it’s like,
Dr. Josh McConkey: stories like the legal stories on there just will blow your mind. The guy was crazy.
Scott DeLuzio: at some points during, during that, that story that you’re saying, I was like, okay, well, this is probably as bad as it gets. And it’s like, Oh, wait, nope. Now we got henchmen coming after him. Yeah,
Dr. Josh McConkey: with, you know, [00:40:00] um, Some background and some training and, uh, I don’t take very kindly to those types of things. So my wife was like, Hey, we need to, we probably need to get out of here. Something bad’s going to happen, you know, whether it’s, it’s, it’s me or him.
Like we should probably just remove ourselves from the situation. So, yeah, so that was Australia.
Scott DeLuzio: Wow. Yeah. And of all places, uh, during COVID, you know, winding up in Australia, but I mean,
Dr. Josh McConkey: I mean, they locked down people in apartment complexes for 111 days in Melbourne. Like just, just crazy things.
Scott DeLuzio: just, just crazy stuff was happening, but anyways, um, you know, this, all the, the, the stuff that, that we were talking about really has this theme of, of kind of persisting, uh, despite the odds, uh, the, all the crap that gets thrown at you, um, it, it’s, It’s improvising, it’s adapting, it’s overcoming, it’s all of those things kind of wrapped into
Dr. Josh McConkey: That’s what the American military does best. [00:41:00] The Russians in China, they, they, they, they fear it. They have no non commissioned officer corps. They lack that leadership and the ability to think outside the box. America is very unique and they fear that.
Scott DeLuzio: You know, I was talking the other day, uh, to another guest that I had on the show, and we were talking about, uh, when you’re stateside, things are very regimented and you kind of have to follow certain procedures and all that kind of stuff, and to some extent when you’re deployed as well, but They loosen the leash a little bit, and you get a little more leeway, a little more freedom to kind of experiment.
And if, you know, it’s one of those things where if it’s stupid but it works, it’s not stupid, right? Um, so it’s like, go ahead, and like, if you get the job done, we don’t really care. Like, just go and do it. Um, you know, we may talk to you about it afterwards, and be like, well, maybe Don’t do that again, because that wasn’t the safest thing to do.
But, um, you know, if it worked, it worked. [00:42:00] And we’re not going to hold that, hold that against you, right? But it’s kind of very similar, I would imagine, to the kind of mindset that you have to have in, in your line of work, where those split second decisions, yeah, sure, there’s some procedures of things that you absolutely have to do.
But you might have to think outside the box for, you know, for certain things, right?
Dr. Josh McConkey: And you improvise a lot in the decision making there. Sometimes you’re making decisions in very, very complex situations where a decision, you’re going to either sacrifice the lung or the kidney or the heart, you know, make a choice. I mean, you would never make that decision independently. But in this situation, you have to make a decision right now or they’re going to die.
And so I’m going to have to sacrifice a little bit of this for this and this certain medication I have to watch for that. Or maybe, you know, they’re, they’re dialysis patients. So that screws everything up. You know, I just, it’s, it’s, uh, that’s why AI, you know, it’s great with some [00:43:00] things, but in like healthcare with a very complex, um, Just people and decisions and health issues.
It’s uh, like, there’s no substitute for that training.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, because those, those split second decisions, uh, like I don’t, I don’t think that there’s a computer fast enough right now to be able to make those decisions as fast as the human brain. Right. And with that training and experience, um, you know, as you were talking, it reminded me of, uh, that, that flight out of New York that, um, ended up landing in the Hudson,
Dr. Josh McConkey: Oh yeah, was it Sully? Wasn’t it Captain Sully?
Scott DeLuzio: Captain Sully. Right. Someone without his experience would have made a different decision maybe to turn around and go back to the airport or to a different airport. Um, and they wouldn’t have made it. They ran all the scenarios, they’d all the, they, they, they, they, Duplicated the whole situation and every single time it came back as a crash landing, you know, slamming into [00:44:00] buildings, into apartments or, you know, wherever.
And it wouldn’t have worked. The only option that would have worked was what he did and landed it in the river. And it’s like, how do you, you don’t train for that type of thing. Like, but it’s just
Dr. Josh McConkey: hmm. That’s just the years of experience. I mean, he’d been a captain for so long. That’s uh, there’s no substitute. I remember as a physician early on, the things I would learn from attendings and some of these old family practice docs out in rural. We’re on Nebraska, middle of nowhere. Uh, there’s no substitute.
I mean, you can read every book and you can be super genius and ace all those tests and board exams without like 20, 30, 40 years of experience like these guys have, I hope I’m not as grizzled. I mean, I’ve got 21, 22 years of experience, but there’s no substitute for that experience.
Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and I, I, I laugh sometimes because, uh, early on in my, my career, I would work with people who were extremely book smart. They were top of their class in [00:45:00] college and, you know, 4. 0 GPA and all that kind of stuff. Right. And you say, okay, well, let’s now we have real world situation. Um, let’s sit down and try to figure it out.
And they’re like, what does the book say? And it’s like, well, sometimes it doesn’t matter what the
Dr. Josh McConkey: The rubber does not meet the road. I’ve seen so many residents, just these, you know, some brainiacs, some, some really intelligent individuals that in an emergency department setting, they just, they can’t do it. They can’t think that quick. They, they, they freak out. They don’t respond well under pressure.
You give them a test, they’re going to ace it. But just real life people,
Scott DeLuzio: Well, and especially, especially in a situation like you were talking about where, where certain things might contradict. Like you might have to make a decision that, that sacrifices, uh, you know, a certain organ. Um, when And you know that that’s the thing that’s going to keep the person alive, at least, you know, yeah, sure, maybe it’s going to damage something else down the, down the road.
That’s not a good thing. Obviously, we don’t want to do that. But we also want to keep the person alive. That’s kind of first and [00:46:00] foremost. And, and, you know, when you’re talking about those contradictory things, it’s like, well, okay, well, I don’t want to hurt the person at all. I don’t want to cause any kind of negative impact to the person.
And, but
Dr. Josh McConkey: And then in doing that, in doing that, that’s what kills some people. So you freeze, you can’t make the decision. You have to go one way or another and you freeze and you can’t make the decision and there’s repercussions for that.
Scott DeLuzio: A hundred percent, yeah. So,
a lot of this stuff, I gotta imagine, talking to you about some of the people who do freeze and that stuff, some of these things might just be overwhelming. Um, and I’m not talking about even in an emergency room. Um, I’m talking about their transition out of the military or, you know, some of that stuff is just overwhelming.
You know, maybe they have anxiety or depression or they’re just stressed out about life in general. Do you have any suggestions as far as, you know, immediate steps that you could take when you’re feeling overwhelmed, you’re feeling like [00:47:00] you’re about to drown, you know, because you’re just overwhelmed with all the things going on in life.
How can people start to reframe their situation and kind of take it one step
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, what you’re feeling there is natural and to a certain extent it’s very normal. Everybody has a breaking point. Now some people’s breaking points are much higher or lower than others. You know, you need to work with special operators that just the breaking points of 99. 99 percent of planet earth could not do physically or mentally what they do.
So everyone’s breaking point is a little different, but everyone has a breaking point. And there’s nothing wrong with reaching out and talking to friends or family or a healthcare provider. Like the emergency department is always a safe place. You can always go there in any situation if you’re having mental health issues.
And I take pride in that. Like we are the safety net of this country. And when people have issues, you can always go to an emergency department and talk with somebody that can help you with something, [00:48:00] but don’t be afraid to ask out. That’s when Danger and things get real bad is when you don’t know your own limitations or you don’t know that breaking point.
That’s, that’s where it gets dangerous. And don’t be afraid to ask for help. I mean, I learned that as an intern where my first night on call just, just paralyzed like, Oh my gosh. I. I can make a decision to kill somebody if I miss something on an EKG or I give a wrong dose of the medication. But you realize that there’s people around you, you know, that the nurse is always there to make sure you don’t make any stupid intern orders and kill somebody and your, your attendings and, and the other senior residents.
So no one to ask for help, you know, doctors don’t kill people, but doctors that don’t know their limitations, kill people.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.
Dr. Josh McConkey: You know, it’s the same thing in the military.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And so that brings up the, um, just having a support system in place, whether it’s family or friends or, uh, you know, colleagues, maybe depending on, you know, where, where you work and everything. Um, just
Dr. Josh McConkey: That, that weight, [00:49:00] that weight behind your spear.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah, right. Yeah. But that’s, that’s your team. I think every individual, um, you know, He has to look around and be like, look, I can’t do everything on my own as much as I’d love to, you know, sometimes, you know, I, there, there are certain times when it’s just like, I just want to crawl away in the corner and just let the world leave me alone and everything like that.
But I can’t do everything. I can’t, I can’t do that. And so, um, and I know there’s folks out there who, who just want to isolate and be away from everything. But, Realistically, you can’t do that. Um, and so looking around at who is around that can help you and, uh, be that support network, um, be the person who’s there to be like, Hey, you doing all right?
You’re like, you kind of seem a little off today. Like, you know, that type of thing. Um, or even someone that you could just go to and talk to, uh, when you’re feeling overwhelmed or you feel like you just need someone to talk to, right? Um, yeah. So.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Very important.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, all that I think is, is, it’s crucial. I, I don’t think we, [00:50:00] uh, get by as a society without it.
You know, if we, just like, uh, you know, a baseball team, if you had 330 million individuals walking around this country, all doing their own thing and not coming together as a team, even groups of teams, um, you know, in companies or schools or whatever, to accomplish whatever that mission is that they, that they have.
You just have a bunch of individuals. It’s going to be just like watching a t ball game and having nine kids running after a ball because they don’t know what else to do, right? That’s basically what it’s going to be like, and it’s going to be chaos. Um, so when you have people on your side, people on your team, uh, not only are they there to help you, but you’re also there to help them, and everybody gets better.
You know, that one plus one doesn’t equal two. It’s, it’s three or more, and that, that’s what you’re looking for, right?
Dr. Josh McConkey: Absolutely. Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: 100%. So, um, awesome. So before we, we wrap up, um, I, I know we, we’ve been, we’ve been talking about, [00:51:00] uh, you know, a lot of the stuff, kind of resiliency and, um, you know, building up that, that group and that community, uh, you know, that, that weight behind the spear.
Um, can you, uh, let the listeners know where they can find out more information about your work, your, your book and, uh, you know, where they can reach out if they want to, or, or, you know, anything like that.
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah. Thank you. weightbehindthespear. com. So, W E I G H T, weightbehindthespear. com. We’ve also started a non profit organization, a foundation, the Weight Behind the Spear Foundation and that’s weightbehindthespear forward slash foundation and people can always reach out on, you know, the social media of Instagram.
It’s Josh McConkey, M D, and on LinkedIn and Twitter. Twitter is, uh, X is McConkey007. I’m James Bond fan.
Scott DeLuzio: I kind of guessed. Um, tell us a little bit about the foundation before we wrap up too. I forgot
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, the foundation, what we saw with Hurricane Helene just, [00:52:00] just decimated a large portion of the country. And in Western North Carolina, I live here in North Carolina, it has just, just there’s, there’s entire towns were just wiped off the map, you know, so there’s been so much damage. Um, the book, you know, Be the Weight Behind the Spear has had a lot of success, a lot of awards and it promotes community engagement and volunteerism.
And then you see something like that happen. You’re like, okay, well now, yeah, I’m not just, I want to just write a book and, you know, do a bunch of a book tour stuff. Like what can we do with it? So I, I’m, I’m trying to put that into actual practice. We’ve started a nonprofit organization, a 501c3. You know, we’re raising money right now for Western North Carolina.
And, uh, we’re, we’re actually putting together a weight behind the spear award. Each year to draw attention, you know, for the foundation here, but we’re going to do a 5, 000 annual award every year for, you know, a man or woman that just embodies the weight behind the spear, uh, ethos itself. And, you know, we’re just getting all that put [00:53:00] together right now, but right now, Western North Carolina is hurting and trying to make a difference.
Scott DeLuzio: that area, um, with that, that hurricane that came through that, that just kind of decimated that area. And, uh, you know, I know, I know some folks who are, uh, around that area, maybe not necessarily directly affected by it, but, um, you know, they, they talk about it and, and how, how rough it is, uh, over there. And so, yeah, any, any support that that area can get, um, you know, but it’s great how, you know, as a country, we can come together.
You know, we, we saw that after 9 11, we come
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, it’s what Americans do best.
Scott DeLuzio: is what we do. Um, you know, people are hurting, you know, we don’t, we don’t need to wait around to be told you Go help these people or go help these like we we know they’re hurting and we have resources We have supplies. We’ll bring them and we’ll help them and we’ll we’ll get them back on their feet You know, it may not be overnight, but it’ll be something that that that will happen
Dr. Josh McConkey: Yeah, this is a long term project. [00:54:00] It’ll be years and years, and some of those areas like physically can’t be rebuilt. The damage is just so extensive. But, you know, this is where we start, and we got a lot of work to do.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, 100 percent Well, thank you for the work that you’re doing Thank you. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing about all the work that you’re doing You Just super important work. Um, obviously being a doctor, super important. Uh, we, we need, we need people like you, uh, people who have the mindset and the, the attitude to be able to, uh, work in that emergency, uh, capacity, uh, in all capacities of the medical field, uh, I think are super important.
Um, but also for the work that you’re doing, uh, with the foundation to help out, um, you know, folks who are in desperate need of that help. So,
Dr. Josh McConkey: Well, thank you, Scott. It has been a pleasure. I appreciate it.