Episode 467 Gary Pacelli Fight Until the Lights Go Out Transcript

This transcript is from episode 467 with guest Gary Pacelli.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and today my guest is Gary Pacelli. Uh, Gary is a best selling author, retired detective, keynote speaker. He’s a passionate skydiver and he’s survived not just unimaginable challenges in his life, but, uh, he’s also fought back to shine as an inspiration for all of us, uh, really.

And so today we’re going to hear about his journey, his story, um, the experiences that he’s gone through and how he continues to defy the odds, uh, That have been put against him. Um, uh, but with that, Gary, welcome to the show. Glad to have you here.

Gary Pacelli: Great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate being here.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, for the listeners, maybe who aren’t familiar with you and your story, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, uh, kind of who you are. And, and then we’ll kind of get into your, your story or your journey, uh, that we were talking about here and, and some of the challenges that you faced in, uh, in a bit after that.

Gary Pacelli: All right, great. Thanks. [00:01:00] Um, yeah, so my, like, my story starts years earlier. Um, I had just gotten out of the Marine Corps and I was working construction and it was a great job, you know, but, uh, I knew I didn’t want to be doing it when I was 50 years old, you know, I’m jackhammering on the highway and, uh, so I, I had heard that the sheriff was hiring temporary workers to work in the jail.

So the sheriff’s office was about two blocks from my construction office. So I got out of work early one day and I rushed over there and just to make an appointment to see the sheriff. Cause you know, I was, I was covered in concrete dust. You know, I was, I just looked nasty, you know? And, uh, so I just, again, with the intention just to talk to his secretary.

So I’m talking to the secretary and I didn’t realize though the sheriff was in his office and the door was open. So he yelled out, you know, who, who is that? What does he want? You know? So, uh, the secretary explains, you know, uh, I’m here to, for, for a job. He said, hey, you know, send them in. Right. So, all right, well, boy, here I go.

So I walk in and again, I’m, I’m just nasty [00:02:00] looking, you know, and, uh, I explained to him, I had just got out of Marine Corps bootcamp and, you know, uh, infantry school and I was a reservist. So. You know, and I heard he was hiring temporary workers and he ended up hiring me right on the spot. Just, you know, he heard Marine.

That was it. He, you know, that was good. So I started out as just a temporary worker in a, in the county jail and you know, just worked my way up. The sheriff took a liking to me. He sent me, you know, after the corrections Academy, he sent me back to the police Academy. Then I was a motorcycle cop for like 10 years.

And then I made detective and I was assigned, a new sheriff came in and he assigned me to narcotics and attached me to the DEA as a task force officer. So, you know, that was great, you know, but, but it was a step up for me, you know, I, I was, I thought I was a great detective, right? But now I’m in a whole nother world, you know, this is like, you know, [00:03:00] it’s such a leap that it’s almost like, you know, Just going from climbing a ladder to being sent to the moon.

You know what I mean? Like, like, you know, and it was great though. Like, cause I was with all my friends. Cause we, our unit, our, our, our group was just, um, eight guys from the sheriff’s department that were handpicked. And I had worked with these guys since I started in the jail. We all kind of came up together.

Right. And, uh, and two DEA agents, right? So we, we had our own special little unit and, uh, uh, it was just great. It was like, it was like cops and robbers, right? You played when you were a kid, but it was for real now, you know, very, very little supervision too, and, and we’re young and, and, you You know, we were at, we were gung ho, right?

You know, we just wanted to do the job, you know? So, we didn’t really need supervision, right? Because we were there to do the job. And we had some great, great, um, you know, drug busts. 440 kilos of coke, [00:04:00] 200 kilos of coke. It was just wild stuff, you know? And, uh, you know, everything was going great. And one day I’m on a normal surveillance, right?

Uh, nothing special about the job, right? We had an informant and he told us that there was someone coming up from Virginia to pick up a load of Coke. And, um, it was a Friday. We knew he had the hotel till Monday, right? So nothing was going to be happening until probably Sunday night. So it was kind of relaxed, whatever.

And, uh, We followed him from, uh, New Jersey into New York over the George Washington Bridge into Washington Heights area, and at the time that was a big money laundering area of New York. So, uh, you know, we followed him around. He went from like bodega to bodega, just talking on his phone, you know, nothing, nothing crazy, right?

And, you know, it’s just a normal day. And, uh, you know, but, but the mood changed, right? Like suddenly, like, I don’t know, I’m very sensitive to those kinds of [00:05:00] things, right? I always was, you know, my lieutenant used to always like to keep me close to him. You know, he would say that like my antennas, Went out further than everybody else’s, you know, you know, it was the light puller or spidey senses, whatever,

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Gary Pacelli: um, that day, man, it was like, it was something was something was off.

I could feel it, you know, and it just, it just around one o’clock that I started, it started to change. And, uh, so the target started moving and. My Sergeant ordered whoever was, you know, on the target, you know, the closest we call the eye, whoever had the eye of the suspect. That if he went back to New Jersey and he made a U turn before his hotel, he wanted whoever was on to pull him over and ID him. Now, this is, uh, it’s unheard of, right? We’re Undercover on surveillance, we’re not even supposed to be [00:06:00] seen, right? So we’re dressed in t shirts, shorts, you know, and um, you know, it’s wrong for so many reasons, you know, we could blow the whole job because it’s going to spook the guy, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: Or the guy could just, You know, panic, whatever, you know, everything, nothing good can come from it, in other words, you know, so, you know, I called my sergeant up, he was a good friend of mine, and I said, you know, what are we doing?

Why are we doing this? And he’s like, well, listen, it’s not me, it’s the, our supervisor was sitting in a high rise building in Newark, New Jersey, and for some reason he wanted to be relevant, you know, he’s listening to the radio, and he just, you know, he wanted this guy ID’d, and we already knew who he was, it was a ridiculous order, you know, and uh My sergeant had called the Fort Lee Police Department to see if they could make the stop for us, you know, with a marked unit.

They were all tied up. It’s a busy department. So it fell on us, right? So, okay, you know, we got to do what we got to do. And, uh, and [00:07:00] as luck would have it, as we came over George Washington Bridge, there was a lot of traffic. And, you know, and that’s a crazy area. I don’t know if you know that area at

Scott DeLuzio: I, I’ve just been in that area a couple of weeks ago, so I’m, I’m familiar. Just the amount of time to get from Newark to the city. Uh, it was just insane. Um,

Gary Pacelli: so you totally understand then, you know, and plus the construction, everybody got spread out, um, half the guys lost, lost everybody, you know, I ended up being the only, the only, uh, guy on, on the target, right? So, of course, he makes U turn and, uh, you know, I, I hit my emergency lights, you know, it’s an undercover car.

You know, but we still have lights and a little chirp of a siren, he pulls over, you know, right as he gets onto the highway, he pulls over to the shoulder and, um, you know, I pull over, I get out of the car, I take my badge out, right, that’s all I got, right, so, you know, I walk up to the car and, you know, [00:08:00] I know what I’m going to say to him, you know, it’s, it’s, we think it’s something to say, you know, like, um, I was going to tell him that, you know, we had a report of a stolen car, you know, that matches this description, it’s obviously not you, but I need to see your driver’s license.

Something just

Scott DeLuzio: Generic,

Gary Pacelli: believe, right? We didn’t get that far, right? So I asked him for his driver’s license and, uh, he went to hand it to me with his right hand and he reached over. And when I went to grab it, he pulled his hand in, right? And, you know, I guess I was being a little complacent, whatever.

I reached into the car, which is a giant no no. Um, but when I did though, I noticed that his foot was on the, uh, brake and I looked and the car was in drive. And we looked, you know, our eyes met and he, he hooked my arm and he punched the gas, right? And man, so now he’s heading into the, it’s Route 4 in Jersey, right?

It’s a [00:09:00] major highway. He’s heading, you know, onto the highway. I’m running to keep up, but I know I can’t keep up. There’s no way. And I could probably pull my arm out. But if I do, I’m going to fall and I’m going to get run over by his back tires. You know, so in my mind, you know, the best thing to do was, you know, I dove into the car, right?

So now I’m in the car, I’m on his, you know, I’m on his lap, I’m facing him really, but my legs are dangling out, um, just below my, my waist, you know, probably right below my pocket line, you know, on my shorts, right? And, um, I look, you know, over my shoulder and he’s already crossing into the middle lane. And he’s going through the fast lane and I’m thinking like he’s gonna crush me against that divider, you know, and just keep going, just throw me off the car and keep going.

So, I hear this like, like a roar, like a train inside my head, right? know, shoot him, [00:10:00] shoot him now. Bang! Right? And next thing I know, I’m just tumbling down the highway. Right? And, um, you know, like, uh, when, when stuff like that happens, like, you know, like, like, uh, I don’t know what it’s called, but like time slows down in your mind.

Right? I, I call it slow time. Right? I don’t know what else to call it.

Scott DeLuzio: I’m pretty sure a good number of our listeners are probably familiar with what you’re talking about. Probably experienced something similar to that. And yeah, like everything slows down. I don’t know. I don’t know how to describe it either.

Gary Pacelli: Yeah. And like, you, you could, you can think so much so fast because it’s only a fraction. It’s not even like, you know, and I’m thinking, and I think, you know, am I ever going to top stop tumbling? You know, cause I’m like going like weird tumbling, like feet over, I don’t know, just, just some, cause I, I must’ve got thrown out around 40 miles an hour.

So, and I’m going down, right. [00:11:00] And I finally come to a stop and, uh, You know, so and I’m looking down and I’m on, you know, on my knees, you know, and I’m on all fours like really, and I still have my weapon in my hand, which I, to this day, I like, I always pat myself on, on, on my back for that, you

Scott DeLuzio: You never let go of that weapon, right? You don’t ever want to let go. That’s like, that’s training 101. You’d never let go.

Gary Pacelli: but the funny thing is, though, like, uh, I don’t remember pulling it out of my holster.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Gary Pacelli: I don’t remember any of it. You know, all I remember is hearing that, you know, shoot him, shoot him now, then bang,

Scott DeLuzio: And, and so you, you did end up shooting him then at, at that point, right? Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: Um, so, you know, I looked up and man, I’m in a fast lane. I got a tractor trailer bearing down on me. Right. And, and again, it goes into that, like, you know, that moment of like that slow time.

And I actually, cause it’s comical at this point, I’m thinking to myself, like, You know, is a piano going to fall out of the sky now and hit me in the head? You

Scott DeLuzio: an anvil or something. . Mm-hmm

Gary Pacelli: [00:12:00] right? So, and I didn’t even think to move because it just, it was so close, you know, in my, in my mind, the way I looked at it, the thought to move never even occurred to me,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm

Gary Pacelli: but I just get yanked out of the way, like, and it goes by me, right?

You know, you know, right. And, and, and it’s my partner, you know, he had shown up, you know, I didn’t see him show up. And just as the guy started taking me for the ride onto the highway, he came around and so he just, you know, came along with it and he yanked me out of the way and, you know, pulled me to the side, you know, the shoulder and he’s like, because he heard the shot, but he didn’t know like if, if I shot or, or if the driver shot, he had no idea.

So he’s like, oh man, are you all right, you know, and um, you know, I’m, I’m like, um, you know, I, I, I want to say it, you know, you know, because it, it, I don’t [00:13:00] want it to take away from, you know, um, the, you know, the scene, right. But, so I’m going to have to swear if you don’t

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. No, go for it. Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: mean? So I say to him, like, you know, you know, he’s like, are you all right?

I’m like, go get that motherfucker, right? And he laughs to this day. He says. You know, because he always makes fun of me about it. He said, I was so mad that I looked like a baby who was constipated trying to go to the bathroom. Like my, my head was so red, you know, like every time he said, he says every time he sees me, so, you know, he, he jumps in his truck.

He’s got a four Explorer and he, he, this, cause the guy kept going. He didn’t stop.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Gary Pacelli: And, um, so he chases him around and I, I get up and, um, I’m bleeding, you know, I got road rash all over me, you know, I have a concussion, I’m limping, right? And, uh, my car is probably about 50 yards, 450 yards up the shoulder, right?

[00:14:00] So, I’m walking to my vehicle and, uh, I’m not aware of my surroundings. I have total tunnel vision, right? Because I’m so mad, right? I am so, I think I’m more embarrassed than mad, okay? Because in my mind, I’m thinking, how could I have missed this guy? I don’t understand it, you know? Like, it doesn’t make any sense to me.

How did this guy keep going, right? So I’m just, I’m, you know, I mean, it sounds crazy, but I’m thinking, oh, I’m never going to hear the end of it. You know what I mean?

Scott DeLuzio: Right, right.

Gary Pacelli: that’s weird crap you think, I guess, when you have a concussion. I don’t know. But so I’m limping up the road and I’m going towards my car because I’m like, I got to get on this pursuit, you know, because I don’t want again.

And, you know, it’s like, Now my, my partner, big Lenny, right? He’s, he’s now on the pursuit with this guy, right? So I don’t wanna leave him hanging, right? So I, I wanna get in my car and get on that pursuit, right? [00:15:00] And, um, so I’m, I’m walking towards my car and I’m, again, I’m not aware of what’s going on around me.

Other, other group members had shown up, right? And they stopped traffic. ’cause it’s a crime scene now, right? So, I’m not aware of this , and I’m walking, I’m went into my car and I, and I get close to my car and, and I, and I, I say out loud, pretty, pretty loud, loud enough. for people to hear me and I say I’m gonna kill that motherfucker, you know, and because I’m again, but I look and Oh boy, I look and I see all the cars stopped, right, on the highway, and there’s a car like two feet from me, right, and the windows are rolled down, it’s like a typical family, right, father, mother, right, two kids in a backseat, and, you know, the woman in the passenger side, you know, our eyes lock, and she’s terrified, man, like, her eyes are like giant, you know, Oh.

It snaps me right back to reality though, like, you know, she’s, she’s [00:16:00] terrified of me, right? All she, my, my badges got ripped off me, right? So, right, so all she sees is this, you know, some bald lunatic walking up the shoulder, bleeding, talking, talking to myself with a gun in my hand, right?

Scott DeLuzio: right. You didn’t even holster your gun at that point, right?

Gary Pacelli: No, no, I still have my gun in my hand, right? So, uh,

Scott DeLuzio: get me the fuck outta here. Mm-hmm

Gary Pacelli: what I’m saying? Like, so, uh, but, but the auntie snaps it right back and I quickly holster my weapon and I jump in my car and I take off, right? And so they had gone lower level of bridge and I went upper level, right? Cause I’m not, I’m not hearing the radio. I’m, you know, everything going on and I don’t hear any of it because I’m so hyper focused right now.

And, um, So I’m driving, I’m on the Henry Hudson Parkway, I can’t figure out why, where is everybody, you know? And I finally get a call from my chief, and he’s like, hey man, like, where are you? [00:17:00] I’m like, uh, I don’t know. I said, I’m on the Henry Hudson Parkway somewhere. He’s like, alright, you need to come back.

I’m like, okay, alright, you know. Uh, I said, well, but, you know, Where’s, where’s everybody? Where’s the pursuit? He’s like, no, no, no. Just come back. It’s, it’s, it’s all right. You know, Lenny got the guy. Okay. So what had happened was they, Lenny chased him, but now another group member had caught up and they, they chased this guy to the lower level, lower level at a bridge right before like the, the toll booth area and stuff, right?

There’s, you know, whatever, um. And Big Lenny ended up ramming him with his truck because he wouldn’t stop. And, uh, so they’re ordering the guy out of the car, right? You know, get out of the car, get out of the car. And, uh, I didn’t see this, you know, they told me this. Uh, they couldn’t see inside the car because there was so much blood on the windows. So, you know, they’re like, you know, the car door opens and closes. And then it [00:18:00] opens again and closes and they don’t know what this guy’s preparing to do here, you know, and, um, so they’re about to light the car up, you know, and, but the door opens finally and the guy slumps out. What had happened was he had lost so much blood that he couldn’t undo his seatbelt,

Scott DeLuzio: Oh

Gary Pacelli: right?

So imagine, right? Oh, that would have been, forget about it. So he slumps out and, and, you know, they go to work. They, you know, they save this guy’s life because he’s, I, what had happened was I gained like, like a contact wound almost really, like, it was so close to him that, and this guy was really big, he was like heavy, right?

So, it went into like the, the meaty part of his chest, and it went through, and it lodged in his elbow. It was a 40 cal, uh, it was a Glock, I don’t even know the number, but it was a 40 cal. So lodged in his elbow and, um, so he, he was bleeding all over the place. So they, they saved his life, he lived and, uh, you know, they charged him with, you know, attempted, you know, murder, [00:19:00] police officer, 2 million bail, and, you know, he ended up getting a lawyer and he gave a statement, he admitted to everything, you know, he was going to crush him against the divider.

He thought that we knew everything and, and we were coming just to arrest everybody in the whole nine yards. Um, and that’s why we don’t make stops like that,

Scott DeLuzio: You’re right

Gary Pacelli: That’s the exact reason why, right?

Scott DeLuzio: That should be textbook, uh, you know reason why not to you know,

Gary Pacelli: yeah, exactly, you know? So, um, you know, he sued me for 25 million, he sued the DEA, my department, like, just ridiculous stuff, you know?

He said that, uh, At first he said that he thought I was carjacking him. then, you know, once the lawyer found out that we found his driver’s license on the highway, that wasn’t going to work. You know, so then it was that I, I walked up to the car and shot him, right? That’s ridiculous. I didn’t do that.

You know? Um, and the whole [00:20:00] thing was, it, they ended up cutting him a deal, right? Behind my back, you know, the, the feds are good like that. They, uh, They tend to panic and whatever and then so they give him lifetime probation. Okay Which is not even a thing. Okay, who’s in a monitor room? He lives in Virginia You know to me like that’s not gonna work right and that’s how you’d lifetime probation.

That’s that’s a norm So whatever it was just a like just just to make it go away They just wanted it to go away because they didn’t want the bad publicity, you know, and it was a That year was a bad year, um, there was a lot of shootings, and there was a lot of Sharpton activity, and things were just crazy, right?

So, I kind of understand, whatever. Um, you know, there’s a whole hospital story that, you know, if we can take a little side detour, um, it’s kind of funny,

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Sure. Like I had a little humor

Gary Pacelli: yeah, right? So, we get back, you know, I get back to, [00:21:00] uh, to the scene, finally, you know, and I, um, I turn my, I hand my weapon over to my chief, he’s there.

And they order me and Big Lenny to the hospital, we get there and, you know, that’s when all the fun starts, right? So, we’re walking into the emergency room and there’s this guy in this like really, really nice suit, right? And that’s the way I noticed, right? Yeah, wow, really nice suit this guy’s wearing, right?

So, and he stops, he says, hey, are you Gary Pacelli? I’m like, yeah, who are you? You know, because at this point, like, you know, I’m paranoid. Everybody’s, everybody, you know, Is out to get me

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, right

Gary Pacelli: um, you know, because I can either be a hero or, or go to jail for 20 years. You know what I mean?

Like, you don’t know, you know, even though it’s a good shoot, it doesn’t matter, you know, it all depends on, you know, cause it’s playing on the news. Like already, by the time I get to the hospital, it’s already on the news. Right. Cause, cause route four is shut down. That’s a major, you

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, that’s messing up a lot of people’s days.

Gary Pacelli: Oh

Scott DeLuzio: Not just the family that you terrorized.

Gary Pacelli: [00:22:00] Exactly. Right. It was, it was shut down for like, you know, six hours. It was, it was, uh, Oh, it’s horrible. Um, so, and again, the news, it’s playing on the news constantly, right? And so, um, Internal Affairs shows up and, um, and I’m right off the bat like, I’m like, uh, already? Like, I, I mean, I, I’m not even, they’re like, no, no, it’s not like that.

We’re, we’re here, you know, on orders from the sheriff. So nobody talks to you. I’m like, all right. Uh, Bergen County was there, their homicide unit was there, you know, they want me, they want a statement already, you know, my lawyer’s not going to allow that, so they’re fighting in the hallway, and it’s, it’s turned into a nightmare, and uh, you know, I’m sitting in a room with my partner at the time, you know, Big Lenny, you know, we call him that for a reason, the guy’s like, he was a, uh, A bodybuilder, right?

And competition bodybuilder, right? Gigantic. And uh, like one of the toughest guys I ever met, you know, one of the [00:23:00] like, and he’s like one of the best cops I’ve ever met. Read smart, book smart. Like, you know, he kind of taught me everything when it came to like high level narcotics, right? And uh, yeah, that’s it.

I’m talking to him like I’m talking to you, right? And then all of a sudden, nurse walks in and he, everything changes, right? And he, and he goes, oh, I, I can’t breathe. You gotta give me something. I’m looking at him, right? And so nurse is like, oh yeah, you, you know, you’re really stressed out. I, I’ll get you something.

And he goes, yeah, and you, and you gotta hear him something too. You know? He hit his head, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. So the nurse goes, okay, okay. I’ll get some for both of you. So she leaves and I’m like, what the hell? I’m not taking anything. What’s wrong with you? He’s like, listen, you idiot.

If you take something, you can’t give a statement. Oh, all right. Yeah. Like, yeah, I didn’t know that. You know what I mean? Like, this is the first time I was ever in a shooting. Right. Yeah. So she gives us something like Xanax, whatever, you know, and no big deal. Right. And, uh, [00:24:00] so, but it’s building and like, it won’t stop.

Right. Like, it’s building. And now the sheriff’s there, and uh, the DEA had sent a member of their shoot team, you know, whenever there’s a shooting, they send out a representative to handle, like, whatever, I don’t even know what, all he did was bring sandwiches, I don’t know what else he did, but, you know, um, so, and in the news is right, you know, the same thing, and I’m like, oh man, and I say, I said, oh man, Lenny, we’re screwed, you know?

And he’s like, no, no, no, you’re, you’re screwed. I’m like, oh, you know, thanks. Right. So like right in the middle of the, of the, the news though. And, um, I, I have the video that it plays and it, it says right at the end, it says, uh, you know, waiting on an update on the Kobe Bryant situation. Right. So the next time that it plays probably about a half hour later, it’s again, the same news, [00:25:00] they break right in breaking news, Kobe Bryant just charged ring.

Everybody out in the hallways clapping and they’re cheering because it wiped it right off. They never reported on me again. It was done. It was

Scott DeLuzio: eliminated, that, that, that big story just took everything from, from you off the thing. So.

Gary Pacelli: took all the, all the, sucked all the wind out of their sails and I was like so happy. Right. And, uh, so I got released and, uh, you know, I went home and I, you know, I felt okay.

I knew I was injured, you know, um, but it wasn’t anything. Until the adrenaline wore off,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I was going to say, you’re probably still like super pumped with

Gary Pacelli: was pumped up. And, and so about a week later, I, I, I just, I, it was like, I couldn’t get out of bed. Like my whole body like twisted up. Right. So I ended up having 11 surgeries. Right. And, um, so, they, they, they ended up, uh, retiring me, medically retiring me, and, you know, they were, they were good, you know, like, [00:26:00] they gave me, like, the, um, uh, the two highest medals in law enforcement, from my department anyway, was the Legion of Honor and the Combat Cross, right?

And, um, They, you, you, they gave ’em to you at like the Christmas party. Right. And, uh, you know, it’s like a big deal. And then it’s like, it’s almost like they, like, they, they pull the lever and you shoot right out the shoot, you’re gone. You know, just gone. Like, you were never even there, you know? And um, that’s what it felt like,

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, just real, just real quick. I want to just kind of chime in a little bit about that because I know, like, the majority of the listeners here, they’re kind of military related, but there’s a lot of similarities between, you know, law enforcement, military, um, you know, and, and to your guys credit, you know, like when, When we go into combat, we know we’re going into combat because we’re, we’re in, you know, Iraq, Afghanistan, wherever we end up and, you know, we’re, we’re geared up.

We got, we got, you know, we got grenades, we got machine guns, we [00:27:00] got

Gary Pacelli: Air support.

Scott DeLuzio: we’re air support. We’re, we’re, we’re good to go. We know. We know what we’re getting into. You guys, you were there in shorts and a t shirt with a pistol. And you’re essentially in a combat situation where your life is, uh, your life is on the line, right?

And someone’s, someone’s literally trying to kill you. Um, you know, however, whatever their means of trying to kill you, whether it’s, you know, scraping you up against a, you know, median barrier or whatever, um, at the end of the day, it’s still trying to kill you. Right. And so, um, Like, you guys deal with that every day, and you never know when, like, you’re literally gearing up for combat every day, but you’re out there in shorts and a t shirt, so, I don’t know if you guys are nuts, or, or what, but, uh, but yeah, there’s, I mean, that mindset is just there, and it’s, it’s, it’s similar, you know, there’s a lot of similarities there, but, but to what you were just about, you were just saying, um, you know, when, when you, Got out when you, you retired [00:28:00] and everything.

Um, it’s like a light switch goes off and you’re just, you’re one day it’s on. One day it’s off. And, um, now, now who are you when you

Gary Pacelli: Yeah. Exactly. Right. You go from a hundred miles an hour to zero, like, just like, boom, you hit that wall, you know, and, uh, to what you were saying, though, like, you’re, you’re absolutely right. Um, but like, you would think that my job, you know, would be more dangerous, right? Um, than the guy on patrol, right?

Just, just driving around a patrol car, but it’s the opposite because like, usually, unless you have some supervisor, who’s an idiot. It makes a decision to do what, you know, what happened with me. Usually when we’re, when we take down like a wiretap or we have, you know, we’re going to lock somebody up. You know, we, we got, we got air support, we got undercover cars, we got SWAT teams, you know, it’s pretty safe, you know.

Um, but [00:29:00] the patrol guy, the guy on patrol just in uniform and, you know, the big city guys, yeah, it’s more dangerous. But they expect it, right? Now you get a, you get a local guy out in a rural town, he’s not expecting that, right? Like they haven’t, you know, like, what are they really doing? And all of a sudden when it goes bad, it goes bad fast.

So that, that’s the guy that’s, that’s the most dangerous job. That’s my opinion anyway, you know.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Gary Pacelli: but, uh, so you go, you go to zero and, uh, you know, I was getting operated on like every four to six months. Right. So I couldn’t get anything going right. Like, uh, cause every, every time I started to get into something, I had another operation, right.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm . Okay.

Gary Pacelli: so I ended up having like six rotator cuff surgeries, right. On my left shoulder. And then the seventh one, they replaced the shoulder. Right. And then, uh, they had to go back in because. [00:30:00] They thought I was infected, so they had to go back in. And then, uh, my deltoid muscles snapped from all the surgeries, right?

So, you know, and it, and it kind of bowled up down here. Had to fish that up and tie that back up. And then wrist surgery, then I had, uh, two spine surgeries for gauges in my spine, right? So, you know, this had, this went on for like four and a half years, you know? Um, you know, a couple times I, I went back to work at the police academy, um, again, but I always had to leave because I had a surgery, so I came up, you know, so, um, you know, I don’t want to make excuses and I’m not one to make excuses, but, you know, when you’re in that situation and you lose, you start to lose touch with like your family, right, that you worked with, right, like I spend more time with these guys than my wife, You

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

Gary Pacelli: and, and I’m still very close [00:31:00] to them to this day, but you don’t fit in anymore because you’re, you’re, uh, you’re not a participant anymore.

You’re a spectator, right? So you don’t, you feel out of place, right? So you kind of, you kind of withdraw yourself, right? Because you know, you’re not involved in the stories no more and, and you just don’t feel,

Scott DeLuzio: You don’t fit in. You’ve, or you don’t feel like you fit in anyways, right? You might, might be able to reminisce with, with some of the, you know, the old times and that kind of stuff. But, but there’s new stuff going on and that, that, that’s fresh in their mind too, right?

Gary Pacelli: And there’s new guys, right? There’s, there’s new numbers of the squad, right? So you, you just, and they look at you like, you know, who’s this guy? You know, like, and so, um, and so for me it was like, uh, you know, I, I just, I lost myself in this, like Hazel, like, you know, self pity and pain pills, you know, I’m sick because like, again, operate on and, you know.

You know, going down a bad road, man,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm. Mm

Gary Pacelli: like a hundred [00:32:00] pounds, you know, I was always in really good shape, man. I was solid. I had to be, because, you know, I was, I’m only five, six, you know, and, uh, these guys are giants out there, you know what I mean? You know, like, they’d always make fun of me.

You like, ’cause I’m short and I’d be like, no, no, you’re, you’re just a freak of nature, you know, like six foot four, what are you kidding me? Right. So, you know, but uh, and that’s what I was dealing with, you know? So, and of course whenever we’d go out and. You know, whenever like the, the, the suspect or whatever, like they want to fight somebody, of course they want to fight me, they’re not going to go after Big Lenny, I mean, his neck was the size of my waist, you know what I mean?

Like, so it was always me, you know? So, uh, It’s funny, because they end up nicknaming me, uh, and it’s on my helmet now for a second. I thought Vin Diesel, right? Yeah, because they said I looked like, uh, Vin Diesel, you know, but uh, you know, since I’m short, you know, so, but instead of the Fast and Furious, they called me the Short and Furious, you know. [00:33:00] It was pretty funny, you know, but uh, you know, but anyway, so I lost myself and I gained 100 pounds and, and I remember looking at a picture of me and my family from, uh, my niece’s high school graduation party, right? And no matter how long I stare at that picture, um, I couldn’t recognize myself, you know? I just couldn’t see myself in that person.

And I was, I was embarrassed, disgusted, just, just like, you know, no way, you know? And, but it woke me up, man. And like, from that moment, that was it. Like, I went on a mission, you know? And I said, I’m getting my life back. I don’t care. And, uh, you know, it took time. Probably like three years, but I lost weight. I got back in shape.

Yeah. I was feeling pretty good. I was looking pretty good. And, uh, but I was missing, I was still missing something, you know,

Scott DeLuzio: Is that, that what, what drove you to, to, uh, or drew you to, uh, skydiving? Is that, that where you

Gary Pacelli: yeah. Um, you know, cause I, I, I did a skydive, uh, [00:34:00] when I got out of bootcamp, you know, um, I said, you know, my, me and my buddy was like, Hey, let’s go for a skydive, whatever. And it was like a tandem jump, you know, and we were like 3000 feet. It was great though, you know, like a little Cessna, you put your foot on the step and you hold on to the strut of the plane, right?

You just let go, you know, and it pulls your chute out for you. It was just, I loved it, you know, and I said back then I was going to get my license. But I never did, you know, life happens, you know, you know, whatever. But this time I said, no, I’m going for it. And I did. And, um, it was in 2019 and it, and I, I got my license at the end of the season, like it was October of 2019.

And, um, so I had 27 jumps at the end of that season. Right. And you need, it takes 25 jumps to get your license. So, um, I had 27 and then 2020 rolled around and, uh. Man, I went nuts. I went up and down the [00:35:00] East Coast, right? Um, I hit 11, uh, skydive centers, right? And, you know, we call them drop zones. So I hit 11 drop zones and, uh, I did over 300 jumps that year, right?

I was just going, uh, you know, me and, me and, uh, And uh, uh, one of, uh, a jump buddy of mine, he’s an iron worker, New York City. And uh, you know, we just, you know, it was great. It was one of the best years of my life, you know? Because it had, it had a lot of the stuff that I was missing from law enforcement, right?

You know, that camaraderie, you know, cause Like, you know, every time you jump out of the plane, you know, it’s pretty safe, you know, but you’re still saving your life. You know, you’re pulling that, you know, you’re deploying your canopy, you know, if you don’t do it, no one else is going to do it for you. You know, we have the, unit that goes in, in, in your rig that if you’re going, uh, a certain speed at a certain altitude, It’ll, it’ll blow your, your reserve, right? It’ll pop. Okay. So if you’re, if you’re knocked unconscious and you’re just falling and you get to like, [00:36:00] you know, mine was set for, uh, 750 feet. If I get to 750 feet and I’m not slowing down, pow, you know, it, it just blows it out. So, you know, but other, you know, you’re obviously not going to do that, right? So you’re pulling your own parachute and, you know, you got your own, your own equipment, you know, yeah, you maintain, right. You know, and it’s constant training.

It’s constant training, you know, and, uh, which I love, you know, like, cause it’s, it’s one of those things that you can, you’re never going to master it. You know, it’s like golf, right? I don’t play golf, but that’s what they tell me. Right. Um, so,

Scott DeLuzio: Well, and, and you can, you can never be too good at keeping yourself safe or, or saving your life, right? You’re like, there, there’s never, Oh, I’m, I’m, I’m the, the top at keeping myself, you know, from hurtling to the ground or whatever.

Gary Pacelli: Right. Yeah, so, you know, um, and the adrenaline though, right? You know, because [00:37:00] that’s a big part of it, right? Um, you know, when you’re in law enforcement, especially like, you know, the level that I was working at, you know, we had a long, long, long leash, you know? And, uh, because at the end of the day, you know, your bosses, all they want to do is they want to take pictures of, uh, drugs and money stacked on the table, right?

That’s all they care about. You know, they want, they get there, they show up, you know, and, and as long as you’re doing that, they’re going to leave you alone. They don’t, they don’t want to know how you did it. Just go do just, you know, call me when it’s time for the pictures. Right. And then. You know, we loved their jobs, so we kept, we kept, they were happy, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Gary Pacelli: so you had that, you had a long leash, nobody was, you know, like, there’s no such thing as being late for work, you know what I mean? Like, like, what are you talking about, you know, like. There was nobody on you like that. It was just, it was, they trusted us. We’re adults, you know, like, that’s how it should be.

Really, right? You know? [00:38:00] So, you know, with Skydive, you know, it’s just, like, it was just, it filled everything, like, it just checked all the boxes off, you know? And I, I, it’s pretty cool, too, though, you know what I mean? Like, it’s, uh, like, even I could go to the drop zone and not jump all day, and I, I have the time of my life.

Watching the planes, watching them jump. You know what I mean? It’s just, I love it. You know? So to me, it was, I was, I was in heaven. Right. And, uh, you know, so 2021 rolled around and COVID, right. COVID was there. So everything was weird, everything, you know, and we, we may believe like that wasn’t going on, but it was there wherever you went, you know, like you had maniacs yelling at you, you know, like, cause we, we, most places you go, like you have to wear the gaiter, right.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Gary Pacelli: You know, but you know, I, I got a full face helmet, you know what I mean? Like, so, you know, I got some maniac yelling at me because my, my gator under my helmet, maybe slipped below my nose, you know, [00:39:00] like, all right, come on now. And so that would have been a little ridiculous, right? But you know, but that’s how it was everywhere, you

Scott DeLuzio: Everywhere was crazy like that. Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: And, and look, hey, if you want to jump, that’s the rules. You got to do what you, you know, you’re not gonna argue with them, right? You’re not gonna get anywhere. They’re just throwing up the plane. So, you know, but whatever we, we got by, but it. The weather was horrible. You know, I like, again, I live in Hudson Valley, New York, right?

So I’m like, uh, it’s Northwest, uh, Lake New York, right? It’s right on the border of Pennsylvania, Jersey, right up there. So we couldn’t get good weather. And I was looking at North Carolina, the weather was going to be fantastic. Like the first weekend in March that North Carolina was having good weather.

So, you know, and I had, I had started wingsuiting. You know, um, right at the end of the last season, right? So I was dying to get back up in the air and go do it, right? So I said to my wife, Hey, look, I’m going to run down to North Carolina for a couple of days, you [00:40:00] know, just to, you know, she’s a school teacher up here, third grade, you know, she doesn’t like me skydiving, but she knows how much happier I am, you know, when, when I’m myself like that, you know?

So, you know, she was cool with it. So I went down there. And I got there on a Monday, right? And, and there was nobody there, you know, it was just me, you know, and so, and I’m considered a fun jumper, right? Um, cause I’m not, I’m not in military, I’m not an instructor or a student, so I’m just a licensed skydiver that jumps for fun.

So, I show up, uh, at this drop zone, it’s right outside of Fort Bragg, and, uh, it’s a Monday. And no, again, there’s no fun jumpers, right? So, I’ve never been there before. Um, beautiful place. And I, I walked into a hangar that I thought was for fun jumpers. And I, I dropped my gear. And I, I just look up, there’s a bunch of guys looking at me, right?

And I’m like, hey, you know, how’s it going? So, it turns out these guys are stationed in Fort Bragg. And they had a plane chartered for the [00:41:00] day. You know, to train, for whatever. Like, I didn’t ask them what they did. You know, we started talking. I told them who I was, you know, retired detective. I was, you know, Marine Corps Reserve, whatever.

And, uh, they were, they were really cool, you know, and they were like, Hey, listen, you want to jump on our plane? We got plenty of room. I was like, um, yeah, hell yeah. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, absolutely. That’s fantastic. You know? So, uh, they just want to know what I was going to be doing and whatever.

And I told them, and what I was going to be doing was practicing my wingsuit pattern, um, for the next day, you know, because I have never been there. And, and I didn’t know the layout of the area and I wanted to get some key like landmarks, because when you’re in a wingsuit, You can get carried away and you can end up going out too far and not being able to make it back, you know, and then you got to land out and that’s a nightmare and it raises your, your risk of getting hurt, you know, so I, [00:42:00] I just wanted to get everything squared away.

So, know, skydiving, like a lot of people who don’t skydive, they think that like. You jump out of the plane and you put your parachute and you float straight down, right? That’s what they think. And, um, it’s just, it’s not the case. You know, they let you, first of all, they let you out where the, you know, so where the wind will push you towards the landing

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Gary Pacelli: Cause they don’t want to let you out. You know, over the wind line, cause you’ll never make it back, you know? So, um, you know, so there’s different forms of skydiving. There’s like, you know, the belly position where you do come straight down, right? And you’re on your, your belly, right? You see, you know, it’s the classic skydive position.

Then you have the free flyers that do all kinds of crazy stuff, you know? And, uh, I’m not that limber. I can’t do that stuff. then, then you have like your, your. trackers, right? And that’s where I specialize in because my body is so fused and wired together that I’m so [00:43:00] stiff. Like I can’t arch my back, right?

For like belly, belly position, but for tracking, it’s the perfect, it puts me in the perfect, I’m like a lawn door, you

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Gary Pacelli: And so what it is, is like, you’re still falling obviously down, but you’re on an angle. So the wind is, as you’re falling, the wind’s pushing you,

Scott DeLuzio: Okay. And so you’re kind of head first going down, kind of at

Gary Pacelli: yeah, not steep, no, like just enough where you’re falling and the wind’s pushing you, right?

So, and, um, if you’re in the right position, you can go pretty fast and pretty far, you know?

Scott DeLuzio: Mhm.

Gary Pacelli: It’s like wingsuiting without a wingsuit or like body surfing, right? So, you know, and I’m really good at it. I got really good at it. So, uh, you know, I’m, I’m, I was able to do my wingsuit pattern, you know, and hold that position long enough to You know, to a good pattern going, right?

So it worked out great. Uh, I got out last. I, I gave them plenty of [00:44:00] time, you know, cause I, it didn’t matter to me. I, I, I could wait 30 seconds and then jump out of the plane, you know, because I just pull a little higher, you know, pull my parachute a little higher. It’s not a big deal. So, uh, I did six jumps that day with them.

Perfect. Fantastic day. And I got there the next day. And now Natter’s people, it’s a normal day. I don’t know why, but there’s, there’s fun jumpers there. And then the military guys are now intermingled with, um, they’re on the plane, you know, um, they’re getting out first, you know, then the rest of the fun jumpers are behind them.

Right. So, but. I’m uneasy. Second I get there, man, I got that feeling again, right?

Scott DeLuzio: The same kind of feeling that you had that, that, the, the last time that you were talking about, right?

Gary Pacelli: exactly. Right. And it’s like, you know, and I can’t figure out why, man. And I’m like, ah, you know, now my wingsuit was a rental, rental wingsuit, you know, because you don’t buy a wingsuit until you get like really good because every, every suit’s got a [00:45:00] different level to it, you know?

So I’m in the beginner level, you know, and, uh, I had to turn in the suit that I had been jumping. Because they needed it for a student. So they gave me the next level up. No big deal, just a little faster, the suit. But it didn’t fit right. It was too tight in the shoulders, and the arms, and it was too short, right?

But, you know, I was at that, that number, that jump number, uh, 338, right? Where it seems like a lot of jumps, but it’s really not, you know, cause you’ve got guys with thousands of thousands of jobs, you know, um, but you’re, it’s, it’s, You have enough skill and knowledge to really mess things up, you know? Um, and, you know, and if you’re not aware of that, you know, you’re gonna, you’re gonna do something stupid.

And that’s where I was in my jumping, you know, skill and, and whatever. so I suited up anyway, you know, you know, because I always, you know, like the, [00:46:00] the, the, the bad attitude wasn’t a bad attitude, but the, the, the wrong way of thinking I had was, hey, I got a reserve parachute, so what could go wrong, right?

That’s what, that’s what I thought. Okay, whatever, what could go wrong? I just cut it away and go to my reserve. Okay, well, that, that, well, that usually works, but not always, you know. So, I get on a plane first, because I’m getting out last, and the whole ride out, 15 minutes, And now I start to hear that inner voice, you know, the, um, whatever, like some people call it like your training, right. Or, um, you know, the universe, I call it God. Okay. So whatever you call it, whatever you call it, it doesn’t matter. You shouldn’t ignore it. You know, that’s the thing,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that voice is important.

Gary Pacelli: Yeah, but you know, but, but we usually ignore it because we, we, we think of it as fear,[00:47:00]

Scott DeLuzio: Mhm.

Gary Pacelli: I did anyway, right? So like, and, and I, uh, you know, I’m like, nah, I don’t want to be a coward, you know, like whatever, you know, it’s, it’s just my nerves, right? Whatever.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: So I ignored it, right? Because of like my pride or arrogance, whatever, however you want to look at it, I, I, I shoved that thing down deep, right? And, you know, um, the, the light turns red and the first jumper opens the door, you know, and, you know, he’s, he’s getting, he sets up the door, it turns green, boom, he’s out, you know, and then every eight seconds somebody’s going and, uh, I slide down the bench and, you know, The voice is saying, you know, don’t jump, ride the plane down.

Don’t jump. My turn. I get up. I exit. Okay, and uh, I go, I go right into my wingsuit pattern and It’s going great, right? But again, the suit’s too short. So I’m on a steeper head down angle because it’s pulling me [00:48:00] down,

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, okay.

Gary Pacelli: So now I’m going super fast, right? I’m going much faster than normal, but I have it under control, you know?

And, uh, so, you know, my altimeter on my helmet starts to beep, right? And, you know, it’s time to slow down and, you know, Deploy your canopy. So, I say, slow down, I reach back, I deploy my canopy, and the second I let it go, right, I, I, I think to myself, you didn’t slow down enough, and POW, it hits, like, the wind, man, and it just opens fully, and, like, our chutes are designed to open slowly,

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Gary Pacelli: for this reason, because, um, it’s, it snaps my head back, And, uh, I hear this, this, the loud crunch, right, of my neck breaking.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh no. Wow.

Gary Pacelli: I hear it, right? And it’s like, and then it’s like somebody turned the switch off, and I get [00:49:00] this electrical charge goes right down my body. And as it goes down my body, my body goes limp. Like, just like, and I think to myself like, No way, like this did not just happen, like, no way, can’t be, you know, so I’m like, all right, just, just give it a couple seconds, um, you know, the feeling and the movement, it’ll come back, right?

So I give it like 10 seconds, you know, and it doesn’t come back, right? So I’m a mile high and I can’t move, so I can’t reach my toggles now, so I can’t steer, right, or, or, or slow down, you know, when I go to land. Um, and the only thing I could move was my head, and I had a little movement in my left hand. And I, holy, you know, like, all I see, it’s North Carolina, man, it’s all pine

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Right.

Gary Pacelli: all I see is like just, just trees, man, you know, so it’s like, [00:50:00] um, everything happens fast, right? Like, uh, so I, I, uh, automatically I accepted my fate, right? Because, okay, what am I gonna do? I can’t do anything. I’m, I’m, I’m gonna die, right?

I know I’m gonna die. I got five minutes to think about it. Because that’s how long it’s going to take for me to hit the ground, five minutes. So, you know, they say like your life flashes before your eyes, right? And, you know, because it’s true, right? You know, you think of everything, right? I think of my, my wife, my kids, my dogs, right?

And I feel like a speck of dust, man, you know, like, uh, tiny, you know, and You know, here’s the thing, like, it’s a very humbling experience,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: Uh, whatever ego you have or had, it rips it right out of you. You know, I don’t care if you’re the richest guy in the world, uh, the toughest, the best look. You’re still gonna die in five minutes.

It does not matter, right? And [00:51:00] that’s boom, right? And, you know, so to sum up how I felt was like, like just like this soul crushing sadness, man. You know, like, because it’s like, you know, I thought about it like, The world’s gonna keep turning,

Scott DeLuzio: Mhm.

Gary Pacelli: I’m just not gonna be here. So nothing’s really gonna change, you know?

It’s almost as if I was never here. Right. You know? And man, that’s a hard thing to, to, to, you know, to, to like register in your brain.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Gary Pacelli: And, you know, but, but that, that happens really fast though. But then, like, I don’t know, like, you know, like, I, I don’t know what it’s called again, but I, I call it the fire of your soul.

Right. And little, like, starts out like a little birthday candle, deep inside of you, this little fire, man. And like, so, sadness, like, turns to, like, anger. And as that [00:52:00] flame grows, you know, anger, like, turns to fury, right? And I’m like, I was, I was really mad, right? And, you know, and I said to myself, like, you know what?

I’m gonna die, um, but I’m gonna die fighting, right? I’m gonna die like a warrior with my, with my sword in my hand. I’m not just gonna, I’m not just gonna take this last glorious ride out, right? And just see where I end up. No way. No. You know, and so I, I think to myself, all right, well, what can I do? Like, I can’t move.

I know that. So, but what the hell am I going to do? And so I realized though, that like, so my planning and I do this on every single jump, I don’t care what it is, which I don’t care what kind of jump I’m doing. I always plan my opening where. When I open my canopy, I know the wind is going to be at my back and it’s going to push me towards the drop zone, right?

So I knew, and that’s just, that’s just in case like I have a bad canopy, right? I open up my canopy and it’s messed up and I got to cut it [00:53:00] away. At least I know that the winds are going to float that canopy towards the drop zone and I’ll probably be able to find it. You know what I mean? That’s three grand, I don’t want to lose that, you know?

So,

Scott DeLuzio: practical. Right?

Gary Pacelli: exactly, right? So, and it just makes good sense too, like I, and, and, you know, so, I knew that the winds were going to float me to the drop zone, but if I didn’t do anything, I was just going to float right past it and end up in the trees,

Scott DeLuzio: Oh. Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: I was too high, so I had to burn off the altitude. So, probably about 50 jumps earlier, I had learned how to steer my canopy with my body weight. uh, you know, the smaller your canopy, the better it works. You know, and I had a decent sized canopy at the time, but that’s all I had, right? So, I was going to try it. And I ended up being able to make these wide 360 degree turns. So, it seemed to be working, right? I was staying within the area of the drop zone and [00:54:00] again, I knew that I was, I knew I wasn’t going to live.

I knew I was going to die, right? So I just wanted to die close to the drop zone so he could find my body, right? And uh, you know, because I had this like crazy fear, right? That like I was going to get caught up in a tree, hung up in a tree and no one being able to find me, right? And then like the birds and squirrels like would peck at me, get inside my suit, right?

And eat me alive, right? I know it sounds irrational, man, but you know, you’re not dealing with like rational thoughts at this

Scott DeLuzio: You had five minutes to kill, and those thoughts just creep in, right?

Gary Pacelli: Oh man, yeah, right? Because like, you know, five minutes can be like a long time or it could be a flash too though, right? Cause like, you know, you start thinking about every way you’re going to die, you know, am I going to get impaled by a tree, drown in a lake, hit by a truck on a highway, you know, on and on.

Right. You know, I died like a thousand different ways, you know, but it’s a flash though. When you think like, man, five minutes, I’m done, you know, [00:55:00] so you’re dealing with that too. And, uh, you know, and the reason why I was adamant that I wasn’t going to survive was because like, so what happened to me was like, you know. I broke my neck, you know, but it was like me hanging myself a mile high in the sky,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: I probably shouldn’t have even survived that, right? But I did. And my canopy flies at, uh, 27 to 30 miles per hour. Now, if you put a 5 to 10 mile an hour wind at your back, I’m going to hit the ground between 30 and 40 miles per hour with a broken neck.

So I’m like, there’s no way I’m going to survive that, right? So the whole thing was like, just so they could find my body.

Scott DeLuzio: Mhm.

Gary Pacelli: And, uh, you know, then of course I hear, I laugh, you know, I can laugh about this stuff now, you know, but I hear the voice again. Right. But it’s the other voice, you know, and his voice is saying to me.

You know, like, ditch it. Ditch it into the trees. Get it over with. [00:56:00] Because if you live, you’re still paralyzed. You know, that’s, that’s not living. You know, like, your wife and family, they don’t deserve that, you know, so just get it over with. But again, like, I, I, I thought to myself, that’s not a bad idea. But the crash landing is going to kill me anyway.

I don’t need to rush it, you know, so I

Scott DeLuzio: Enjoy the ride.

Gary Pacelli: Exactly, right? You know, there’s whatever chance there is, who knows what’s going to happen, right? You know, and so I’m doing my thing and I’m staying disciplined and which is really good, though, that that. I have something for my mind to occupy itself with.

Otherwise your thoughts are going to go, you know, just places you don’t want to go, right? So I’m doing my thing and my altimeter, my helmet is set to be for a landing pattern, to set up for a landing pattern. Because we, we land like a plane, right? We, we land into the wind. So we have like a three leg pattern, right?

So [00:57:00] mine’s set for 1200 feet, 600 feet and like 300 feet. So. You know, 1, 200 feet, right? Three beeps. Okay, so, I’m crossing the runway. I’m already overshooting the drop zone. Like, oh man, and I’m heading right for the trees, but I think, listen, like I’m right above the drop zone. Somebody has to see me right now, you know?

So at least, at least they’re going to be able to find me, right? That’s, that’s what I’m thinking. You know, then, you know, two beeps, 600 feet, you know, everything’s getting bigger, right? You know, the ground, it’s coming, man. And I just, I can’t stop it. There’s nothing I can do. And, uh, but weird thing happens.

I, I, I catch this gust of wind and it, it turns me. Okay. But I already have the wind at my back. So I don’t, I have now another, um, gust that’s turning me. It’s about 120 degree turn. And it’s, it’s actually turning me into the wind. Okay. Now, if you think about that. I have a wind in my back and [00:58:00] I’m turning into the wind.

So I’m going to have a tailwind and a headwind. It’s almost like unheard of, you know, unless you have a tornado, right? You know, um, I mean, I guess it’s possible, you know, I see dirt devils all over the place, right? So, you know, but whatever, you know, I, I, I think it’s for another reason, but I’ll take it,

Scott DeLuzio: Right, right.

Gary Pacelli: so, but the way it turned me, I now can see where I’m going to pretty good idea where I’m going to land. Right. And it’s in somebody’s backyard. Directly across the street from the drop zone, right? But there’s a chain link fence, and I can’t lift my legs. And I don’t know if I’m going to clear it.

And like 30 feet to the left is an above ground pool.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh shit.

Gary Pacelli: So, you know, if I hit that, I’m going to drown, right? I’ll take the fence, right? So, um, you know, beep, last beep, 300 feet. Now I know, I know that I’m, because all my other jumps, I know, it’s like 25, 30 [00:59:00] seconds, you’re going to hit the ground. So, I’m going to die in 30 seconds and, you know, there’s no such thing as a fox, you know, an atheist in a foxhole.

Always heard that saying,

Scott DeLuzio: right.

Gary Pacelli: I understand it now, you know, because, you know, I, I, I, this thought really loud. I didn’t say it, but I thought it really loud on my head, you know, and I, Jesus, please save me, right? Now, I’m not a religious guy. I don’t go to church. I don’t, you know, I always believed in God and I always just tried to do the right thing, you know, just like a normal, decent human being, whatever.

So as soon as I think that, POW! I hit that fence, right? And right below my knees, like midway on my shin level, right? It flips me over and I smack into the ground and I have this really, really tinted visor, right? You can see it up in that picture behind me, right? It’s really dark, but now I’m face down in the ground and so all I see is like just darkness, right?

And, [01:00:00] and it’s so silent man, like there’s not a sound, you know? And I think like to myself, like, Am I dead? Right? You know, it’s funny, right? I mean, I don’t know. I think it’s funny. And because I don’t know. I mean, I really don’t know. And, uh, so I’m like, oh, let me try to move, you know, because I figured, hey, if I’m, if I’m dead and I’m conscious, maybe I can move.

Well, I can’t move. So like, oh man, I’m alive. And, uh, Now I’m in big trouble because I didn’t think it through. You know, I, I,

Scott DeLuzio: You, you stopped at I’m dead. You didn’t think like, what if I don’t die?

Gary Pacelli: Right. So, which is a good thing because I, I, I don’t want to survive this. There’s no way. I don’t want to even think about living my life as a quadriplegic. Right. I mean, because that takes a level of strength. Okay. Now, you know, I also want to say though, like [01:01:00] none of us think we have that level of strength, right?

And, and you know, when people say to me about, they hear my story and they say, wow, man, like what you did was incredible. My response is, is that, you know, when you have no choice, you will do incredible things. You know, things that you wouldn’t normally think you could do, but, but you’ll do it. It’ll happen, you know, uh, nothing special about me, man, you know?

So. So now here I am, because I feel like I’m in a, I feel like my body’s a coffin and I’m locked inside of it, right? And, and I’m like really tiny inside my own body, man. And it’s like, oh man, this sucks, right? This is bad. So the military guys I had jumped with the day before, they knew exactly where I was supposed to be, right?

Because the winds were the same, everything was the same. So they looked up, because you know, I’m not where I’m supposed to be, so they looked up at binoculars and they saw my arms were dangling, and they got into a [01:02:00] truck, and they, uh, they followed me, and when I, when I hit the ground, they were there within a minute, and, uh, so man, they, they, they had, they were trained, I tell you that, so, you know, because they took over.

You know, they ran that show, um, and they got me, you know, flipped over, um, most of my gear was cut off me and across the street to where the medevac helicopter was going to pick me up, right? Um, without doing any damage, right? You know, any further damage anyway. So, you know, they saved my life, there’s no doubt, you know, um, I don’t even know their names, you know, that’s the sad part about it, right?

But, um, so, they’re loading me onto the helicopter and, you know, like, um, you know, in the Marine Corps we always had that saying, right, you know, embrace the suck, right? And, you know, cause, you know, I’ll [01:03:00] say this cause I know, you know, obviously, like, you know, every branch is the same, but, you know, Marines are really good at thriving when things suck, right?

So, I mean, all military members are, right? You know, that’s where we do our best work, right? And, um, so, I knew that I had this life changing event, and I could, there’s nothing I could do about it, right? So, I’m not going to whine about it, you know? It’s not going to change anything,

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.

Gary Pacelli: So, uh, I say to the guy, the flight paramedic that’s loading me onto the helicopter, you know, I was kind of kidding, I say kind of, and I said, hey, when we get to altitude, can you throw me out the door, right, you know, he got mad, right, you know, not on my watch, you know, and listen, I respect that, right, I do, you know, but, I felt like a sack of meat.

You know what I mean? Like I had no, no hope. Like my life was [01:04:00] over. It was finished. Right. That that’s what’s going on in my brain. Right. And, um, so if he would’ve said, yeah, I would’ve been like, all right, go, let’s go throw me right out that door. I, cause I’m not, I don’t want to do this. I don’t. So, you know, we landed at the hospital and, You know, I can move my head so I can, you know, see what’s going on.

So they, they pulled me off the helicopter and there’s like 20 like doctors and nurses and technicians, like they’re all lined up and I’m thinking to myself, that can’t be for me, right? Like I don’t, what’s, you know, there’s no way. So I’m thinking like, well, you know, maybe there was a bad accident on the highway or something, because there’s so many of them, you know what I mean?

Like, And, um, so as soon as I get off, like, man, they’re all over me, man, they’re cutting everything off me, and IVs in me, and we got like a portable x ray machine, you know, and as they’re running down the hallway with me, everything, this is all going on, and, you know, they’re getting me into the room and everything, and, um, so the intake nurse that’s asking me [01:05:00] questions, right, you know, I said to her, I said, like, hey, where You know, did something happen?

You know, because I see all these people, right? And she stopped and she smiled and she looked at me. She’s like, you, you happened. You know what I mean? Like, she’s like, almost like, what are you, an idiot? You know? So it was kind of funny, you know, but I, you know, they, at that moment though, like I realized though that like, I was in like really good hands, right?

And these people, like, they really cared, man. You know what I mean? Like they’re, They’re going all out, you know, and, but the thing is like, I can’t figure out why, like what, what, you know, something, I don’t know, because I, I, I’m finished. Right. You know what I mean? Like, what, what, what are we doing

Scott DeLuzio: Well, you already threw in the towel, you know, 5, 000 feet up in the air, and, and,

Gary Pacelli: I was kind of done.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, why, why are they all, you know, clamoring to, to try to help save you? You were already done, as far as you were concerned, right?

Gary Pacelli: Yeah, exactly. I’m like, you know, you’re wasting your time. What are you doing? Right. That’s what I’m thinking. Right. And, uh, [01:06:00] so they must have x rayed me like four or five times. They checked every inch of my body.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Gary Pacelli: And their thing was like, they couldn’t understand like how I didn’t have any like broken bones.

Right. Or, uh, not even a scratch on me. I didn’t even have a scratch, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Like, not even in your neck, like, none of the bones, nothing was

Gary Pacelli: well, my, my neck

Scott DeLuzio: Your, your neck, bro.

Gary Pacelli: and six. Um, you know, I come to find out that they, my discs, the impact was so like powerful that it like crumbled them. You know, it kind of blew, blew out, six, five and six. So, uh, you know, but, you know, so they were just amazed though, like that didn’t like get all banged up and nothing, you know, and, and, uh, so I got, they got me to the intensive care unit and everything and, you know, I had managed to keep it together pretty good up to this point, right?

And, and I think it’s because my mind was occupied. You know, um, and then they, they, they gave me something, man. And it was like, [01:07:00] man, I was like, Whoa, you know, like it was pretty strong stuff. But you know, um, your mind can be like, uh, so your mind can, can launch you into like, like greatness, you know what I

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Gary Pacelli: But it can also drag you down to the lowest. Pit of Hell, right? It can drag you down so so far down if you let it, you know. Um, and that’s where I was going with, you know, it was dragging me down, you know, and I’m sitting in and I see you I’m waiting for the doctor, um, you know, and and you all these thoughts are in your head, man, and you know, like the the The feeling of like impending doom, man, was so heavy, right?

It was like a, like a heavy blanket on top of me. You know what I mean? Like it was like hard, hard to breathe just, just thinking about it, you know? And, uh, you know, I’m not [01:08:00] embarrassed to talk about it. Okay. Um, especially because it might help somebody, you know what I mean? So, um, you know what I say, you know, like, yeah, hey, like, you know, walk a mile in my shoes, right, before you judge me, you know what I mean?

It is what it is. Um, I, you know, my, I’m, my mind, I, I think, you know, I gotta find a way to kill myself. I can’t do this. I’m not gonna do this, you know? Um, There’s no way I can do it. So, you know, but I can’t move. What am, you know, what am I, you know, what am I going to do? Like the nurse is not going to come in and overdose me, right?

That’s not going to go on. Um, now what I’m about to say is going to sound ridiculous, but again, you have to put yourself in my shoes, right? So, I, I, I remember this movie that I saw years earlier, right? And it was, uh, the Silence of the Lambs,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Gary Pacelli: So, okay, so, there’s a real brief part of the movie, like, you would miss it if you weren’t paying attention, right?[01:09:00]

That when Hannibal Lecter, something happens like with Jodie Foster in a movie and, and Hannibal Lecter convinces the nutjob in the cell next to him to swallow his tongue and kill himself. He did something to Jodie Foster and, and so next time she shows up, he’s like, yeah, so and so, I made him swallow, whatever he said, swallow his tongue.

And so I’m thinking to myself, like, Hmm, I can move my tongue, you know, um,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: I’m going to swallow my tongue. That’s it. That’s my only way out of here, right? So I spend the next like 30 minutes trying to swallow my tongue, right? And I mean, I’m really trying, you know, like, um, and I can’t do it. So I don’t, it must, it’s probably impossible.

It’s probably like a Hollywood thing. You know what I mean?

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Gary Pacelli: At the time, I didn’t know that. And, and, you know, It’s funny now, now I think about it, it’s kind of funny, sitting here like trying to swallow my tongue, but I realized that I couldn’t do it, and [01:10:00] so I made this plan in my brain that alright, when I get out of here, I’m going to get a motorized wheelchair, and I’m going to drive it in front of a bus, right?

And then I’m like, no, a train, you know, like, you know what I mean? Because it’s like, that’s your, your brain is like, you know, and uh, you know, but I want to, I want to jump forward though a little

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: I don’t want to forget this point. Like the whole point of my story, right. And, and, and major reason why I’m even telling it now is because We never know the end of our story, right?

We don’t know how our story ends. And,

that’s why you can’t, you can’t ever give up. You have to, you know, I say to people like, you gotta keep fighting until the lights go out, man. That’s it. Just fight till the lights go out.

Um, you know, because well, number one, if, if we knew the end of our story, how boring would life be? Right. That, that’d be like, that’d be [01:11:00] really lame. Um, and I look back at all the, you know, like I have issues that I got to deal with the rest of my life. Right. Uh, my length, my hands, whatever. So what? You know, I’m still alive though.

You know, I can still do everything I can do. I’m just slower, you know, and I’m a little weaker, but it’s better than the alternative, right? So what a waste it would have been had I been able to swallow my tongue, you know, or ditch it into the trees, right? You know, but I, but, but again, but you don’t think like that, you know, when you’re in that situation, if, if you don’t know any better, you, your mind will just take you to that dark, nasty place,

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Well, and, and, and as you’re, as you’re sitting here, so I just want to, for the, the listeners who maybe aren’t watching the video version of this, you know, YouTube or whatever, but, um, throughout this whole conversation, um, I can tell you that you’re the type of guy, typical, you know, kind of, [01:12:00] uh, New York, New Jersey kind of area, you’re talking with your hands, quite a bit,

Gary Pacelli: Italian.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, an Italian thing, uh, you know, I’m, you know, look at my last name, you know, I probably got a few Italian people in my family as well. Uh, we talk with our hands, right? And, uh, My gosh, if they took that away from you, oh my god, I don’t know how you’d communicate, but

Gary Pacelli: Exactly.

Scott DeLuzio: But, but what, I guess my point is, you know, so you’re, you’re up there, you’re, you’re, you’re paralyzed, you’re, you’re, you had no use of your arms or legs or anything like that, but you’re sitting here and I can see your hands moving this whole time, so obviously things got better, right?

Gary Pacelli: Yeah. Um, yeah, exactly. And you know, but it’s a, it’s a battle though. Right. And things only got better. Like, you know, so Dr. Kimani, you know, he told me that my discs crumbled right from the x ray. He saw it, but he didn’t know if my cord was severed. He had no idea. He couldn’t tell. So I’m going right for MRI, right to surgery.

And it was, you know, I opened my [01:13:00] eyes. I’m right where I was. Right. And, um, he comes in at that point He says, okay, look, everything I did was a success. Um, the disc, they didn’t sever my cord, right? So it’s, it’s damaged. I have a damaged spinal cord. It’s really bruised and swollen, you know, but it’s not severed.

He said that another two hours had, you know, had I gotten another two hours without the surgery, I would have been paralyzed for the neck down the rest of my life, no matter what. Right. Now he also said, though, He had no idea how my, what my recovery looked like. He said, because some people will walk, some won’t, you know, at this point, he says, it’s just luck.

I said, you know, okay. And, but what he, what he said to me though, was if you stay positive, right. And put the work in, so, you know, it’s up to you, you know, okay. It’s up to me. Right. Now, um, [01:14:00] that’s a, daunting task. Okay. And, and my first thought was, well, I don’t even know if I have that in me at this point, you know?

Um, you know, and, and I think that’s where most people, if they’re going to give up, it’s right at that moment because the, the mountain is so big, right? It’s just like, and that’s what it was like for me. Like, You know, I lost the connection from my neck to all my muscles, right? From my brain to my, like, it got right up my neck, right here.

So I had to relearn everything, you know? Like, yeah, okay, I have to relearn how to walk, I also have to relearn how to tie my shoes, hold a fork, brush my teeth, put socks on, you know what I mean? Like, uh,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: you know, I, I, before I got any like, um, significant movements, it was probably five weeks after that.

All the movement I [01:15:00] got quickly was like, you know, momentum kind of movements, you know, like I could throw like my, you know. there was no like, like my, my, my hands were curled in, you know what I mean? Like, so it was, it’s, it’s such a big task. That’s the point you would give up, right? You, you, you, you know, um, because like, how are you going to get through that mountain?

And it’s like, you know, that old cliche, right? Like, you know, how do you, how do you eat an elephant, you know, right. You

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

Gary Pacelli: one bite at a time, right. You know, but, you know, I narrowed that down to a little, you know, not narrow it down, but that I expanded it actually, because it’s not just one bite at a time, because, you know, I’ve been there before, and I know that eating the elephant is like, you know, that first bite of the elephant, it’s going to taste disgusting.

It’s going to be the most disgusting thing you ever tasted in your life, you know. Um, and that’s the same like with me, like that first trying to move something, like it’s how the [01:16:00] hell am I going to do that? You know,

Scott DeLuzio: sure.

Gary Pacelli: you know, and then a little time goes by, right? And then you’re like, all right, well, I, I, I’ll tolerate eating the elephant.

Right. It’s not that bad. Right. You know, and a little time goes by and you’re like, I like the elephant, you know, I can eat, I could, I like it. It’s not bad. I’ll eat the elephant. But then when you get to that, over that hump. Where you’re like, I love eating the elephant. You know, I gotta have the elephant.

Then, you know, you got it, you got it made at that point.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Gary Pacelli: But that’s a long way down the road, you know what I mean? Like you, so you gotta, you know, for example, like my first day in physical therapy, right? Um, they, they pick me up and they put me on this table, right? That they can raise up and down, right?

And they’re like, alright, move your leg. Move my, I can’t move my leg. Move your leg. I can’t move my leg. Just come on, move your leg. You know? So you give it everything. You go like, yeah. I mean, every ounce of energy I can muster up, you know, and, and I might have moved my leg like, [01:17:00] I don’t know this much.

Right? And they’re all like, yeah. You know, like, it was like, and I’m thinking like, that’s success. Oh man, I got, I got a long way to go, you know,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: Um, but then I realized though, it’s, um. It’s it’s one small victory stacked up, you know, every day, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, and I love how you put it too. Like, like usually that, that, that, uh, saying, you know, how do you eat an elephant? It usually stops it one bite at a time. But then the way you said, said it, I love this cause I’ve never heard of this put this way before, but how it’s, you know, it’s disgusting at first.

It’s like the most vile, nasty thing you ever tasted. But then, you know, the next You know, after a little while, then it’s like, you know, okay, I’ll tolerate it. It’s not the worst thing anymore. And, and, uh, then, then eventually you get over that hump and you’re like, I, I freaking love this stuff. And, and, and it’s like that, that.

Motivation that ends up [01:18:00] building because you have those small victories built up over time where you see okay well, I was only able to move it, you know a quarter of an inch and Now I’m able to move it a half an inch and now I’m able to move it five inches now I’m able to all those things may build up and it’s like well shit if I could do that What else can I do if I just keep putting the work in and keep trying like the doctor said?

What else could I do? Maybe I’ll be able to walk again, you know But but again, you got to put the work in

Gary Pacelli: right. And it’s, and that’s the thing is like, you know, no one’s coming to help you. Right. You have to realize that, right. There is no pill you’re on. You’ve got to do it yourself. This is like, you gotta, you gotta put the work in. This is

Scott DeLuzio: it’s just like skydiving too, right? Where, like, you’re up there, and you’re falling, nobody’s pulling the cord for you. That, that’s on you.

Gary Pacelli: It totally on you. You know, um, You know, but my therapist, my physical therapist, though, they were this hospital I was in specialized in [01:19:00] spinal cord and traumatic brain injuries. Right. And they were unbelievable. They were fantastic people. Right. And, uh, you know, but the thing with them was though, like, What they really did was they, they taught me that the only thing holding me back was my mind.

And once I could get control of my, my, my mind, then I could do anything, right? And not, you know, obviously not just me, anybody, it’s the same for once you get control of your mind and don’t let it beat you down, you know? Um, and it’s like, you know, um, we’re talking about the elephant when you start to love it, right?

Um, so they now. As motivated as I was, so they love me now, right? So now whenever a patient would cancel an appointment, they would come and see if I wanted to fill the slot.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh,

Gary Pacelli: I would always say yes, always. And you know, [01:20:00] um, you know, for two reasons, right? I knew it would help me get better. And, but it was also, you know, COVID was going on.

You couldn’t leave your room, you know what I mean? So you were trapped,

Scott DeLuzio: that’s right. I forgot about all that. That’s, that’s what was going on at that time. Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: Yeah. So I would always say yes, right? And, uh, you know, by the time I ended up getting discharged from the hospital, I was doing like five hours of therapy a day, you know? And they have this, uh, exoskeleton suit, right? That they put you in and, you know, you sit, they, they, they hook you up while you’re in your wheelchair.

And they can control it, right? And man, they stand you up right out of your wheelchair, right? It’s like, whoa, you know, now you’re standing up and, and they can do all, it can, the suit can do all of the walking for you, right? Or they can dial it back and then you’ve got to pick up, you know, cause now what the suit does is it retrains your brain to hook up with your

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Okay.

Gary Pacelli: Okay. And, uh, it’s amazing. It works [01:21:00] fantastic, you know, and, uh, you know, it was, so I was going through therapy and everything was going great. You know, like I was like, so psyched, you know, because like, and also too, though, like, you know, I thought about my whole situation, right. Everything that went, everything that went bad, everything that bad happened to me, was countered by something good, you know? My neck broke, my discs crumbled, now had they stayed intact, they probably would have severed my cord, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Gary Pacelli: just decide to float off and take that last ride. You know, I decided to try to get close to the drop zone, so that saved all the time of having them come to find me, right? So that stopped me from being paralyzed from the neck down, right?

Um, the chain link fence. Well, even before that, that, that wind that turned me into the wind, right, that slowed me down [01:22:00] some, right? And then the, the chain link fence that absorbed all the impact, saved my life, you know? So all these little, right? And I said to myself, there’s no way, there’s too many coincidences, you know, people might not believe that, and that’s fine, I, you know, um, but I had, I thought to myself that, you know, I asked, right, to be saved, right, right before I smacked into that fence, right?

And then. You know, I started to think that, well, if I believed that that was the case, right? If I believe that God intervened and I’m alive because of that, well, then I had to believe that I was going to walk out of that hospital. Because why would he abandon me now when I’m, when I’d be having the most challenging part?

It was now, what was he going to do, just, I’m busy, walk away? Like that doesn’t make any, it didn’t make sense to me.

Scott DeLuzio: He’s not gonna half ass it, right?

Gary Pacelli: exactly, right. You know what I mean? It’s not like, you’re not lazy, you know what I mean? So, um, [01:23:00] so that was where, I mean, I, I was like, no way I’m walking out of here. Like I’m walking out of this hospital.

And you know, um, I, at one point some new physician’s assistant came in and he started telling me like, listen, like, don’t get your hopes up because you know, you don’t want to get let down. And I threw him, I said, get out. You know, I called my nurse and I said, listen, get him out of here. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t even want to see him again, you know, like, no offense, but if you’re on my team, like, we’re going for the win here, man.

We’re not going for a tie. You know, I don’t want to hear that. That’s not a possibility, you know. And I kept that, um, attitude, you know, right up until again, like, you know, cause you know, like rock bottom, there’s no such thing as rock bottom, right? Um, it’s a never ending pit, you know, when, when you think you’re at rock bottom, something bad, you know, something else is going to happen, right?

It’s never ending, you know? So, um, I’m sitting here, I get wheeled back into my room [01:24:00] for lunch, right? And I asked the nurse if she can dial my wife’s phone number, cause I can’t move, you know, my fingers or anything yet, you know? And. So, my wife gets on the phone and I could tell something’s wrong. I ask her, you know, what’s going on and she starts crying. One of my dogs, um, died, right? She was teaching from home because of COVID

Scott DeLuzio: right.

Gary Pacelli: and she dismissed her class for lunch and the dog walked in the room and just died, right? I mean, literally like probably a half hour earlier, right? And I had to get off the phone because it, it, it leveled me, man. Like, like, I, like, I just felt like. You know, like, man, I feel like I’m under attack at this point, you know, and you know, all that hope, right? It’s like, it’s gone, right? You know, and, um, so I’m sitting in my room and I’m sitting in a wheelchair and I’m like, staring at the wall and I’m like, you know what? I, I’m done. I can’t do this. So [01:25:00] I’m thinking, you know, I’m going to, I’m going to tell my wife to wheel me into a nursing home and close the door, make believe I’m dead.

Cause I just can’t do this no more, you know? And, um, You know, so, but I’m sitting here and, you know, again, hope is like fleeting, right? It’s, it’s fickle and, and, and it’s gone, right? But faith, though, faith is like rock solid, man. That’s like a movable. You know, it’s a different kind of belief, you know? And, uh, so I, um, I mean, I sat there and I prayed for the strength to get back into the fight, you know what I’m saying?

Like, I don’t want to go out this way, you know? And I started to remember when I was a, um, I was a drill instructor for the police academy, right? And, um, you know, I was like the nasty drill instructor, right? And I hated the job. I didn’t like it, you know, but I was good at it though. That’s the thing. Like I was good at it and it’s all an act, but it’s, it’s a necessary job, you know, you know, I wasn’t there for him to like me, you [01:26:00] know, I was there for, I was there to teach them to like reach down like deep inside and, and, and find that will to survive, right.

And to never quit, right. No matter what you’re getting, you’re asked like deep inside and, and, and find that will to survive. That’s what I tried to instill in these, these recruits, because that’s what you need. You have to have that will to fight, right? So now I’m sitting here and I realized now that I, I, It hit me pretty hard. I realized this that I’ve now like become two things that I despise, right? A victim and a hypocrite, right? Seriously, I’m sitting here because I’m going to quit, right?

And it goes against everything like I’ve been, you know, so that’s what I thought about, right? And it actually reminded me who I was. And [01:27:00] more importantly, reminded me who I was fighting for, right? Because it’s not, I wasn’t in it. You know what I mean? Like, so I, you know, obviously I was fighting for my wife, my kids, you know, and, and, and that was enough to get me back into the fight, right?

So I, I, I went in there with a new attitude where, and I told the therapist, like, listen, I want more pain and I want more suffering, okay? Because the quicker that I take the pain and the suffering. You know, I can go home, right, but I can go home not in that, that, that damn wheelchair. I can go home on my feet.

That’s the difference, you know, because that wheelchair, man, it feels like it sucks you in. It’s like, it’s like a vortex. Like, it’s like a, it’s like, it’s man, it’s horrible, right? And you know, you just, you start to get small, right? And so that was it, you know, and you, so I went back and, and again, hit it hard and the whole bit.

You know, and you’re in [01:28:00] therapy with people. Some are worse. Some are better. Some are just like you, but you would see somebody one day and things were different. And like, you didn’t like, you don’t know, you can’t figure out what’s wrong with them. You know, but then you realize that they gave up. They quit.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah,

Gary Pacelli: Okay. And there’s nothing that you could do or say to them to change their mindset. Right. They were done. Like I was, you know what I’m saying? Like, and, but the thing was though, like they didn’t improve anymore. Like they were stuck and that’s where they stayed, you know? And it was very frustrating, man.

You know,

Scott DeLuzio: Well and, and, and that, that mindset that you’re talking about too, like the, the, mindset that you, you trained in, in those recruits, right, that you’re in that fight, you’re getting your teeth kicked in, you’re getting, you know, battered and bleeding, and, and it sucks, you can’t quit. It’s, I think it’s maybe easier to [01:29:00] have that mindset in, let’s say, a fistfight where it’s a short, shorter duration, right?

You’re not talking months and years of recovery and things like that. You’re talking, you know, a few minutes of, I got to have this intensity, you got the adrenaline pumping, that’s going for you, that’s pushing you forward. You got, you got all sorts of stuff going for you that, that helps keep you in that fight.

And that’s probably a, probably a good thing. Biological, I’m not a scientist, I don’t know, but some biological response somehow that, that, uh, you know, keeps you in survival mode, um, that’s hard to maintain over the

Gary Pacelli: Yo, yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: And so, so what you did, um, you know, looking at those external things, not, not yourself necessarily, because as far as you were concerned, you know, throw in the towel, who cares?

Um, but.

Gary Pacelli: right,

Scott DeLuzio: Okay, but what is that going to do to your wife, to your kids, to, you know, the other people that are in your life? And it’s like, well, shit, I don’t want to do that to those people. Like, that, that, that’s a pretty asshole thing to do to those kind of people, right? Those people who are important to you.

[01:30:00] And so, now you have that external motivation, and, and now you’re, you’re like, well, Hell yeah, I’m gonna fight. I’m not, I’m not quitting. I don’t care what comes my way, you know, and think about it Like like right now if some guy bursts through the door and it’s coming to attack my family I don’t care what the hell happens to me.

I’m Stopping that guy, right? And and so it’s like because I don’t want anything bad to happen to them physically, emotionally, I don’t want any bad stuff coming to them. So same idea in your head. It’s like I don’t want any of that bad stuff happening to them. I don’t want them to have to deal with, you know, me as a quitter or, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, label you want to put on yourself.

Um, you know, and, and so it totally makes sense. Like this, this whole journey that you’re, you’re talking about it, like I get it, like I get where you’re coming from. And I think a lot of the listeners probably will, will understand kind of where you’re coming from as well. Um, and, and understand that, yeah, you do got to, you know, [01:31:00] Dig deep and find that, that motivation, that will to keep going, um, because that’s on you and yeah, there’s going to be some people who, who kind of give up, uh, over time, but that’s, that’s, um, that’s something that they, they maybe just didn’t find that fire, that, that, that thing, that spark to keep them going.

Um, and for, for whatever reason, um, you know, people like you, you found it. Right. And, and that’s, um, I think it’s important to really highlight that. How you’re able to, to figure out that, that piece of it, because I feel like that might be the reason why so many people just give up when, when things get tough, whether, whether they’re going through a physical, uh, injury like this, or maybe it’s some psychological, mental, you know, issues that they’re going through.

Um, maybe it’s a divorce or it’s a, you know, some other financial situation that they’re going through. And it’s just. It’s a tough circumstance in [01:32:00] their life, and they just don’t know how to deal with it. How do, how do I move forward? Um, and unfortunately, well, you know, fortunately and unfortunately, like in your case, it was fortunate.

You didn’t have the use of your, your hands or your limbs or anything like that, where you were able to do something to harm yourself in those moments where you had that, those low moments, and you’re just like, you know, screw it. I’m done. Um, unfortunately, though, there’s plenty of people who do have access to their hands or limbs or, you know, everything that they’re able to do those things, um, without being forced like you were.

You were forced. To sit there with your thoughts. You’re forced, you know, at 5, 000 feet, you had five minutes to float down to earth, and you were forced to sit there with your thoughts. In the hospital, you’re forced to sit there with your thoughts, and eventually, I guess in your case anyways, the survival side of your brain won, right?

And, and that’s, that’s why you’re here [01:33:00] today talking about what you’re talking about, right?

Gary Pacelli: yeah. And you know, so I learned that, you know, two, two important things is like, and I think that a lot of people, when they quit, it’s, it’s at different like stages, right? So like, um, when the task is so big, like we talked about. When it’s so overwhelming, you know what I mean? Like, um, that’s, that’s where you, most people I think will quit, you know?

And then the other thing I learned that too, though, is like, um, dying is easy. Okay. Living is hard. Right. And sometimes it’s the easy way out, but, um, it’s also selfish in a way,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, it doesn’t make it right, just cause it’s easy.

Gary Pacelli: right. And, and again, it’s easy, like, yeah. So it’s easy for me to give up and say, put me in a nurse at home, you know, and just close the door and leave me alone. And I’ll stare at the window, I’ll stare at the window the rest of my life, you know, um, [01:34:00] no, that’s not a way I would want to live, but it would be easy for me, you know, but it’d be selfish, right?

You know what I’m saying? So, um, you know, so that again, and that, that’s what motivated me though, you know, and, you know, and everybody’s different, I guess. And, you know, and I, look, I’m very fortunate that I had the, uh, the experience of, of, you know, bootcamp, right? You know, like that. Where, you know, I, I learned quickly in bootcamp that, um, you know, I, I, if you don’t mind, I’ll quickly tell a story because it’s relevant, right. So, you know, I, I, I’m in here. I am in Paris Island. I’m 18 years old, you know, um, I didn’t have no hard knock life story where I was, you know, streetfighting since I was like nine out there, you know, I mean, it wasn’t like that. I came from middle class family, right? Next thing I know, here I am in Paris Island, getting my ass kicked every day and, you know, and, [01:35:00] um.

You know, like, like everybody else, right? You know, that’s the thing too. You look around like everybody else. And, um, so I got my Dear John letter came, but it wasn’t a letter, it was a phone call, right? Because I, I, I, uh, I had a pass to make a phone call because since I was in the reserves, um, you know, I was an 84 day reservist.

So I had to, as soon as I got out of boot camp, I had to report to my duty station the next day because I was going to infantry school the following summer, right? So my parents were coming to my graduation. And we were going to, they were going to drive down and we were going to drive home. But then I found out I had to report to, you know, Picatinny Arsenal up here the next, the next morning.

So plans changed. So they had given me a pass to make a phone call. And, you know, I don’t know what it’s like now, but back then, and I’m sure it’s very similar, you know, you, you didn’t make any phone calls ever, you know, like [01:36:00] you didn’t even, we couldn’t even watch TV, right? Like you’re lucky if you read, read a letter, you know, this is 1986.

So, so I had my pass to make that phone call and I, I remember I was walking back from a dentist appointment and I, nobody was around, but by the, you know, the mess hall and I’m like, all right, I’m going to make my phone call, but instead of calling my parents, I called my girlfriend. Right? Because I, you know,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: and, um, yeah. Well, come to find out, you know, her little sister answers the phone and she’s like, what are you doing calling? You know, uh, so and so’s got a new boyfriend now. I’m like, oh yeah, who, who? You know, it was, you know, my best friend, of course, whatever, you know, her mother gets on the phone and whatever.

Needless to say, it turned out to be a nightmare, right? So I ended up walking back, you know, to, uh, my, my squad mate there and, uh, my bunkie, you know, he looks at me, he’s like, you know, what the hell happened to you, you know, and I told him what happened, you know, and, uh, he’s like, you know, [01:37:00] you got to get your shit together, man.

Like that, that who cares, you know, like that doesn’t matter. You’re here, you know? And, uh, I’m like, you know, I knew he’s right. You know, like, you know, so, um, He’s like, look, you, you, you got till tomorrow or, or we’re going to beat this, take you to shower, beat your head in. You know what I mean? Like you, you, if the drill instructor finds out what you did, number one, you’re dead.

You are a dead man. And we’re going to pay with you

Scott DeLuzio: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Cause everybody, everybody gets punished a hundred

Gary Pacelli: getting a piece of that, you know? And, um, so, you know, I thought about it. And he was right, you know, like, who cares, man? I’m here now, right? So I just buried that down deep. And I had, I just, from that moment on, that was the moment though, that I can look back to this day and say, I, I became hardcore that day because I was free.

You know what I mean? Like, I didn’t care anymore, you know? Like, [01:38:00] whatever. Yeah, we’re at the rappelling tower. Yeah, you, you want, you want me to clear a tower in three jumps? No, I’m gonna do it in one. You know what I mean? Next thing you know, I’m doing like a million push ups because like, what the f k?

What’s wrong with you? You, you know, you, you know, but I knew they weren’t going to let me die. You know what I mean? Like, so things change, man, you know, and, and, um, but in a good way, change in a good way, you know what I mean? Like, I, I realized what was important and that’s the moment I came hardcore, but, but like a lot of people don’t have that, that, um, fantastic experience of, of, of going through stuff like that, you know, like.

They grow up and then, you know, they’re 26 years old and their mother’s still making her bed or making them, you know, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as they go off to work in some cubicle somewhere. You know what I mean? Like they don’t, and that’s a shame because they, they don’t realize, um, how far you can go.

Like, you know, as, as human beings, we, we underestimate our ability to, uh, [01:39:00] like to, to persevere in extreme hardship. Right. We just don’t, until you have to do it, you know, and when you have no choice, you’ll do incredible things, right?

Scott DeLuzio: It’s funny that you, you call that a fantastic experience just a few seconds ago, because that person who’s, who’s 26 years old sitting in a cubicle and their, their mom’s still making their bed and all that kind of stuff, they would think that’s a terrible experience. They’d be like, why, why would you ever call that a fantastic experience?

That sounds awful. Why that’s that experience, you know. Uh, you know, forget about the fact that, yeah, that sucked at the time, it, it got your mind, you got, got your mind right, and got you to the point where, now fast forward to, you’re in a hospital room, literally, you know, fighting for your life, and it, that experience put your mind in that right, right space to be able to say, hey, you know what?

None of this other shit matters. I got a job to do here. And that’s, that’s to be able to, you know, get [01:40:00] up, up from out of this wheelchair and, and work on that. So that’s what I’m going to do.

Gary Pacelli: You know, Dilly too was like, you know, so I’m, I’m from, uh, you know, upstate New York and I was in North Carolina and, uh, I had to, to figure out whether I was going to stay there. Or come up to New York for therapy, right? And I decided to stay there because I don’t want any distractions. I knew I had, I had one shot to, to walk out of that hospital, you know, and I knew that I just wanted to focus on that, you know, like nothing else existed or mattered because nothing else really did matter.

I had to walk out of that hospital, you know, so I was fortunate that I made the right decision on that one, you know. You know, cause yeah, sure. I wanted to see my family, you know, but, but, but how would that help me get to the finish line? It would, it would distract

Scott DeLuzio: It would be a distraction. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Um, So, I [01:41:00] know in the background there you got a copy of your book, I want to make sure we have a chance to chat about your book a little bit, um, uh, the book’s titled Not My Time, uh, tell us a little bit about the book, I mean, I’m sure it’s, you know, a lot of what we already talked about here, um, but what do you hope readers can take away from it, kind of what’s the message, key message that you, uh, you want to, want folks to take away from it?

Gary Pacelli: um, so like, all right. So the book is like, so my memoir and, um, you know, it explains everything we’re talking about is in the book. And, but what, one of the major things that the book is when, when you, when you’re paralyzed and you can’t move. Right. And, um, You, you can’t escape. The only place you can escape to is in your head, right?

That’s your only place to escape to, right? And, um, so my escape, you know, laying in that bed, [01:42:00] you know, for as ever long as I did was, you know, I would go back to places that I was at my strongest and in the most control. Because I’m now laying in this hospital bed at my weakest and I have no control, right?

So, the story weaves through, you know, my experiences, what’s going on in the hospital, but it also weaves through my thoughts as to where I run off to You know, and it’s a lot of police stories, you know, and they’re usually pretty, you know, I think they’re pretty funny stories, you know, and, you know, cause it’s again, it’s the camaraderie, right?

You know, we, we could talk about, you know, this drug bust or that drug bust, but that’s, that’s work. You know what I mean? Like that’s the, the, the good stuff is the, the interactions between the, the, the, you know, your, your buddies, you know what I mean? So that’s why, like, you know, I enjoyed writing it, but I, I didn’t, I had no plans on [01:43:00] writing the book.

Absolutely none. You know, all the doctors that I came across, they all said I should write, write the book. Right. You got to write a book. Yeah. Cause you know, your recovery is like, you know, they were amazed because it’s like, they told me it was like a one in a 5 million recovery. Right. Um, the way I, it started to like progress.

I believe it’s all mindset. You know what I

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm

Gary Pacelli: Um, so they were like, you know, write the book and, and, cause when I got out of the hospital, um, you know, I, two months I was out of the hospital, uh, I walked out, I didn’t walk out, of course they told me I couldn’t walk out, I had to be wheeled out, and I just laughed at them, and I yelled at them, and I just walked out.

And they’re chasing me behind me with the wheelchair. Yeah. Okay. But, uh, there’s no way, there’s no way that I was getting wheeled out of the hospital. It was not going to happen. So, um, you know, when I got home and I started going to therapy and, you know, they were great too. And, you know, after a couple of months, you know, I, um, [01:44:00] you know, a lot of people disagree with me, but I, Hey, you know.

I went to the drop zone by my house, right? And I was looking to get up in the air, you know? And not because, like, uh, I was looking for attention, okay? And nothing to do with that. It’s not like, hey, look at me, I’m skydiving. Absolutely not. But if I didn’t jump in six months with my accident, I’d lose my license, right?

And I knew that if I lost my license, nobody would let me get it back, right? Because of the stigma with the neck, broke your neck, no way, you know, okay. So I’m running out of time in my mind, right? Because You know, they say with a spinal cord injury like, like this, uh, six months, you make all your major improvements, and then you have a year and a half to get your little minor, you know, movements, [01:45:00] then after that, nothing, right?

I believed that, and they were wrong, and I wish they didn’t tell me that. But that’s what I believe. So I started to fish around trying to see if anyone would help me get back in the air, you know, and no way, you know, they were like, absolutely not. There’s no way, you never skydive again. And, um, and it really pissed me off though, because Like, I saw, like, veterans were jumping, right?

Some of these guys are missing arms and legs. They modify their gear, and then they get it done, you know what I mean? Like, and I’m like, well, I don’t understand, like, why can’t I do that? Right? And they’re just, they wouldn’t, they wouldn’t hear it, you know? And it was frustrating. Um, I hadn’t seen my gear, and you know, I almost felt like I did something wrong.

It’s almost like, like, they were hiding my gear from me, right? You know, like, I was, like, I was a teenager, right? I stayed out too late. They took my car keys away, right?

Scott DeLuzio: right. Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: So, um, you know, I was starting to get, [01:46:00] like, again, the brain, I was starting to lose control of my brain. I was out too late. They took my car keys away, right? It was, you know, like, the reason, though, too, though, it’s, it’s not, It was important to me because again, you know, I was starting to get like depressed because you wake up in the morning and you, um, know, it’s very easy. I can lay in bed and sit there and say, Oh man, everything hurts. You know what? I’m just gonna lay in bed all day. Right? But I didn’t want to make that easy for me. So I wanted to skydive because this way, if that happened, I could say to myself, Bullshit, you can go skydiving.

Right? [01:47:00] You know, get out of bed, get dressed, just don’t be a victim, man. Don’t sit here feeling sorry for yourself. You know, and, and, and, but listen, nobody saw it my way. They passed judgment and whatever. But I was determined that I was going to jump one way or the other. And, you know, so I, I, I ended up calling up a friend of mine.

She’s, uh, she was a Sergeant in the Marine Corps. She was a New Jersey State Trooper Sergeant. She was the Drop Zone Manager of Skydive Shenandoah. In Virginia at the time, and um, now the person who owned the drop zone by my house also owned the one in Virginia. So I called her up and she was also my rigger too, you know, and so I kind of went off, not on her though, you know, um, like, I don’t, I don’t know where my gear is, um, no one, no one will help me, you know, just feeling sorry for myself being a whiner and so she’s like, look, I got your gear, I’m working on it, but it’s so [01:48:00] messed up, I need more time, she said, you want to jump?

I’m like, yeah, she goes, okay, I’ll, I’ll take you for a jump, you got to get a doctor’s note, you know. And if you get a doctor’s note, you meet me in Virginia in four weeks. I’ll take you for a jump. Okay, but I said like, look, don’t, don’t play games. You know what I mean? Like, don’t, this is too important.

Let’s not, you know, no, no, no. And I didn’t think she would anyway. So I called my doctor up and they thought it was a great idea. Right? They were all into it, you know? And I got, I got to say that one thing, like the doctors down in North Carolina, And the therapists, they were fantastic, right? So my doctor was like, you want to skydive?

No problem. There’s, you, you can’t do anything to the hardware I put in your neck. There’s nothing you can do to hurt that, he said. He said, if you want to skydive, just work hard enough to be able to skydive, right? Made perfect sense to me. [01:49:00] The doctor’s up in New York. No way! What are you, crazy? You’re gonna end up paralyzed.

So, you know, I just ignored them, right? I had my note within an hour, I had that note. I was good to go. I didn’t tell anybody, you know, because I didn’t want anybody getting involved. And then, you know, everybody’s got something to say and they would have canceled it somehow. So I just kept my mouth shut and I showed up down in Virginia four weeks and I was nervous that, you know, she had changed her mind, you know, but she didn’t.

And, uh, you know, and I was still in pretty bad shape, you know, I, um, I couldn’t button my shirts or my pants yet. I still couldn’t tie my shoes. I had elastic shoelaces, you know, I limped, I hunched over, know, but I knew I could skydive because I had done this skydive about a thousand times in my, in my mind, right?

You know, I went over every single, you know what I mean? I, that, this thing was all mapped out. So, you know, she told me though, look, If you do [01:50:00] anything unsafe or I don’t feel you’re ready, I’m going to ground you for six months. No questions asked. Okay, no problem. Because number one, I don’t want to jump if I’m not safe, right?

And I knew that she would be fair, right? There was no agenda there. None whatsoever. And you know what? You go around me for six months, that’s great, because at least I know I have a plan going forward, right? It’s not just like, no, you’re not jumping, you know, like that, that’s crazy. So, get on the plane, it’s a little Cessna, and, uh, you know, I don’t know what to expect.

And I’m not nervous though, because I’m just, uh, I’m anticipating what’s going to happen, right? So, you know, she gives me the thumbs up, she opens the door. And I hang my legs out to the side, right? And I’m two miles up and I just give her a thumbs up and I lean forward, man. And I just fall out of the plane.

And I, I do like a bowel roll, then a flip and you know, and I stabilize myself and I’m like, okay, you know, [01:51:00] so far, so good. I got right, I turned I don’t know where she is. I don’t see her. She’s like, she’s above me, you know, watching me. Right. And, uh, so she comes down and we, we hook up and, you know, we’re both smiling like ear to ear, you know, and, you know, we had a plan, you know, I gave her the thumbs up letting her know that I’m getting ready to deploy now, you know, so she, she flew around to my side.

This way, if I couldn’t do it because my hands were so messed up, that she would be able to pull my, my, uh, my can before me.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Gary Pacelli: So whatever I deploy and it works good. Everything’s boom. Perfect. You know, and oh man, I got line twists, right? Damn, now it’s, it’s not a big deal. There it’s, it’s happens all the time, right?

The problem was my shoulders were so locked up that I couldn’t reach high enough up, right? To clear them. So I had to scissor kick my way out of them, you know? And I’m like, oh man, come on, come on, you know? And I, like 30 seconds up, pop, I pop out of it, right? I’m like. Okay, 4, [01:52:00] 000 feet. Oh, this is awesome. So I put my leg straps down and I sit in my harness like a chair, you know?

And man, it’s so quiet and I got, I got all this time to think and like, I’m so grateful, man. You know what I’m saying? Like, cause like I, I could walk and now I’m actually skydiving. Like you have no idea. Right. I think about all the people that I’ve met and will help me and everything. Right. And, but, but what hit me was I, I, I thought like five months and 12 days earlier, I was laying in that backyard in North Carolina, wishing I was dead.

Right. And you know, like at that moment, like I just yell, like at the top of my lungs, like I’m alive, you know, because I, at that moment, I feel more alive than I’ve ever felt any time in my entire life at that moment. Right. What an experience, man. Like if I could box that up and give it to people. Oh my God, you know, like it was, [01:53:00] it was unbelievable.

And, um, you know, so I landed, she was down quick, you know, I wasn’t taking any chances, you know, like I just wanted to come in and land on target. And I, and I did, I slid it in. Okay. Boom. Uh, I go up another, I jump up another jump, we go and. This time now I come in and I stand my landing up and you know what, to me, that was, that was like a completion, right?

Like I, I, I, all right. You know, like I did it, you know,

Scott DeLuzio: graduated at this point, right? In your

Gary Pacelli: exactly right. Like I could put that to rest now, you know, like I don’t have to, it didn’t have to stress me out anymore. Like, and I didn’t, and I knew like. So, um, all the people, I call them chirpers now, right, all the people running their mouth and you know what I mean, like, they, it just, they all, it silenced them, right?

Because first of all, it’s none of their [01:54:00] business. Second of all, they would have done the same thing, you know, if they were in my shoes, they would have tried to jump just like I did and there’s no way, if anybody, any skydiver tells you that they wouldn’t do that, they’re lying, they’re lying, you know, um,

Scott DeLuzio: It’s either that or they gave up a long time ago and

Gary Pacelli: Exactly.

Right. Why would you, why would you, why, I’m not turning that down. If I have a chance to skydive, I’m going to do it. Like that’s, that’s like a gift, you

Scott DeLuzio: made it this far. Why wouldn’t you try that next thing? Right.

Gary Pacelli: exactly. You know, and I look at like skydiving now, like, cause you know, like everything’s changed for me, right? Like did the accident change me? Like everything is different, you know, uh, the way I think about things and what I think is important and what I, what I know is not important. And, um, yeah. You know, like we, we tend to, um, take for granted all those little things that we do, like putting your socks on, brushing your teeth, right?

Holding a fork, [01:55:00] man. That was the longest thing. I can’t believe, like, like if someone were to ask you right now, Hey, how do you hold a fork? Right.

Scott DeLuzio: it is. You know, I just pick

Gary Pacelli: know what I mean? Well, it’s not, it’s really not that easy. You know what I mean? And it took me a long time. Right. So. So we, we, we take all these little things for granted, right?

Um, even like when I was in a hospital, I was becoming institutionalized, you know? And, um, you know, I forgot to forget like all the things that I loved, right? And then a nurse walks in one day and she’s like, Hey, you want a cup of coffee? I’m like, Me? I can have coffee? Of course you have coffee. Yeah, I’d love a cup.

It’s like five weeks. I had a cup of coffee. You know what I mean? I had to drink it through a straw. I didn’t care, man. Like, wow, a cup of coffee. You know what I mean? It was like, Oh, this magical little thing, this little cup of coffee. Right. But that’s how everything is though. Like, so I looked, you know, You know, like, I have this gift, okay, and it is a gift, [01:56:00] okay, because I’ll tell anybody that, um, I lost a lot of things from this accident, I lost so much, but I gained more than I lost, okay, you know, the things that I lost, though, on both sides, We’re, we’re huge.

Okay. Um, but I have this gift now though, that like, everything is, is a magical gift. Like when I, when I get out of bed in the morning, I can put my feet on the ground. Like, you know, Hey, look at that. I’m standing up, you know, like, or I can put my stock on. It’s like, I mean, everything, like I can look at every single thing.

Like, like, and I try to tell people just try to. Do that for like 20 minutes or an hour in your day. Think about all those little things that you do. And, and, and I get it. Nobody cares about those things. Until you can’t do it anymore.

Scott DeLuzio: You get excited about those little things, right? You about putting your socks on and brushing your teeth, [01:57:00] picking up a fork or a spoon or whatever, you know?

Gary Pacelli: It’s huge because like, um, for example, like imagine like looking at the sock on the floor and you can’t pick it up to put it on your foot or, or, or you can’t take your shirt off and put it on, you know, like, um, and, and those are the things that I daydreamed about in the hospital that I, you know what I’m saying? Like it was the little things, you know, you would think it would be other things, but no, for me it wasn’t anyway.

Like I. Like, I just can’t wait to be able to put underwear on, you know what I mean? Like, I was in a diaper for four weeks, like, ah, like, come on, you know? Um, so, so like, everything’s like a magical gift now, you know, and that could be for everybody too, like, if you just, um, appreciate the things that we have, right?

And, and. The time that you have too though, like, I don’t want to like sound like, you know, whatever, you know, like, uh, I don’t know what the right word, like, I’m [01:58:00] not trying to sound like, you know, look, you know, everything’s like, you know, lollipops and unicorns and all that, that no, that’s not the case. You know what I mean?

I’m human and I, I, I can fall right back into my old ways. But the thing now is though that I know how to control my brain, my mind. And when I catch myself thinking the way I used to think, I can go, I can bring myself right back. To the way I think right now, you know, because, um, you know, like, you know, when I was up there floating around, like I never thought once, Oh man, I’m going to miss my car or I wish I had more time to buy a bigger house or a nicer watch.

Like that’s meaningless stuff to me right now. You know what I mean? Like has no value in my world whatsoever. You know, um, I look at it differently. Like I want to build like, um, wealth and equity in my soul, right? Like, you know, and I, I’m not talking about, about like, you know, um, [01:59:00] I’m not trying to save the world here, man.

I’m just going to do it by just being good to people. The little easy stuff, man. And, and, and, and not certain people, everybody, whether they deserve it or not, I could care less. It doesn’t matter to me, you know? Um, cause it goes, it makes a difference, you know, like, you know.

Scott DeLuzio: It’s kind of like a ripple effect too, where you affect one person, you’re nice to this one person who’s maybe having a rough day. And, and there, there may be being a bit of a dick to you, but you’re still nice to them, right? And then maybe that kind of changes their, their attitude a little bit, you know, maybe not a hundred, you know, a 180, you, you, you’re just changing a little bit, right?

And, but that’s getting them a little bit closer to not being a dick to other people and, right? And, and so, so that, that then affects out those other people that he maybe would have been affecting in a negative way. And then those people now are. You know, in a, in a more positive place is to say that [02:00:00] one little thing just kind of spreads out to God, who knows how many other people, um, over, over the course of time.

And so, um, you know, it’s important to have that kind of mindset, um, and, and not be so bogged down by all the, you know, And, you know, in your words, kind of the more insignificant things in life, right? That, that so many people get bogged down with, you know, what, what kind of car am I driving? What kind of, you know, house am I living in?

What kind of, you know, fancy clothes and watches and all this other crap that at the end of the day doesn’t matter. But like you

Gary Pacelli: doesn’t matter.

Scott DeLuzio: you’re trying to build equity in your soul as opposed to your bank account or your, you know, your 401k or, you know, whatever, you know, those things are, yeah, sure.

It’s important to have, you got to have money, you know, you want to do all these things. You got to have, you got to have something, right? Yeah. Why, you know, what, what is your why? You know, and, and now you’re, you’re looking at affecting the world in a positive way as opposed to, um, you know, affecting yourself in a, in a more selfish way.

[02:01:00] Right?

Gary Pacelli: Right. So, and I write in the book where, um, you know, so we all like, we all want to believe that we’re all here for some grand purpose. Right. We all want to believe that, you know, of course we wouldn’t, you know, but when I looked at my situation and why did I survive and why was I able to walk? Um, and again, because like, I don’t, I don’t go to church.

Right. I’m not volunteering at the hospital. So then is it because I have some tasks I’m supposed to perform, right? Like you can start to get down into that, right? Um, you know, what, save a cat out of a tree, right? Or, or, you know, you’re driving down the road, right? And you see this house on fire, right?

And you, You rush in, you save the family, right? And you go, okay, you’re a hero. Great. You know, or is it something as simple though, as just saying hello to that stranger on the street who might be at his wits [02:02:00] end about to turn the corner maybe and blow his brains out. Right. But just because you said, hello, maybe that changes his mind.

Scott DeLuzio: hmm.

Gary Pacelli: You know, that’s the way I look at things though. You know what I’m saying? Like, and,

Scott DeLuzio: And that makes sense too, because even, even like just sharing your story right now on this, this podcast, I’m sure you’ve been on others and other places where you shared your story in your book and everything. Even just the story like I’ve never gone skydiving before and, you know, I’ve always said if I’m, if I’m wearing a perfectly good parachute in a perfectly good airplane, I’m going to land in a perfectly good airplane with that perfectly good parachute, but uh, um, but, but for other folks who, you know, maybe they, they were in a similar situation where they, they rented a suit and it didn’t quite fit right.

Um, Okay, well, that, that’s something that they might be like, hey, this suit, no, give me something else, because this, this suit is not going to cut it for me, because of, you know, the story that you just shared, and they’re like, well, I don’t, I don’t want to have my neck snapped, you know, 5, 000 [02:03:00] feet in the air, uh,

Gary Pacelli: Yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, get me something that works, so that, that doesn’t happen.

Um, you know, little lessons like that. And then, okay, now that person, you know, they land, they’re safe. They’re happy, healthy. They had a, they had a fun day and they can, they can talk about it with their friends over a beer or whatever. And, and, uh, you know, have a good time, but you know, maybe that spared that person, the agony and the trauma that you went through, um, just by sharing your story and, and so it’s like little things like that, even, even, you know, saying hello on the street, but.

You know, things that you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re almost taking for granted as like, Oh, no big deal. I’m, I’m here doing a podcast, you know, whatever, but to somebody else that could, that could completely change your life, you know?

Gary Pacelli: would be great. I mean, you know, so, you know, I, I, after that jump, you know, I started skydiving again, you know, and it’s, you know, slow, you know, I’ve done, you know, since that jump, I’ve [02:04:00] done 108 jumps, 108 jumps past my accident, right? And I started, uh, you know, So Shawna Finley, she’s the person who took me on the jump, right?

And so she owns that drop zone in Virginia now, right? So she asked me to, uh, be, you know, do the ground crew stuff there, which is, you know, loading the plane, right? Hold the ladder, just looking at people’s gear, make sure nothing obvious, you know, and it’s, it’s, it’s not as hard, you know, you know, I still skydive though.

And, and, you know, You know, I’ll see the winds are a little, I don’t know, a little iffy, right? Where normally, before I got hurt, I’d be on that plane, I wouldn’t think twice about it. Nope, I’m gonna jump, I don’t care, I’m good. Now, I’m like, nah, I’m taking myself off the load. And what I noticed, though, is when I, you [02:05:00] know, a lot of times when I do that, other people take themselves off the load.

Because nobody wants to be first, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah.

Gary Pacelli: be the first guy,

Scott DeLuzio: It’s kind of that group think, uh, mind, you know, that mindset, right?

Gary Pacelli: You know, and so it’s like, I don’t care. Like, hey, you know, think what you want. I’m not, you know, but another reason that we would skydive into though is like, so, um, you know, I’m not a preacher, right.

And I’m not a pastor or, you know, and I can’t walk around, you know, throwing Bible quotes at people. Right. That’s first of all, it’s not my style. It’s not what I’m about. But I tell you what, every time I put that parachute on and I jump out of that plane, it’s almost like I’m wearing a billboard, right?

Because people notice, like then. You were paralyzed what, two and a half years ago? Yeah. No, I’m telling you. And it’s a miracle. I think so. For me, I’m not saying I’m special, where I deserve a miracle. But, um, and that’s how I look at skydiving though. Like, [02:06:00] skydiving is, is like, um, it gets to represent, you know, the miracle that God gave me. Be able to live, walk, and skydive again, right? So, um, and if, if that helps somebody too, like, I, you know, Hey, like, um, I think that’s what it’s all about though, honestly, like, and I think, um, we, we can’t quit and, and we want to, you know, you got to, when I talked about the chirpers before, right? All those people that want to get involved and run their mouth and they don’t know what they’re talking about.

And, but it affects us so much though. Like I noticed that, like, you know. Even like after my accident, I was letting these people get, they got in my head, you know, and they’re hard to get out, you know, and you know, for the longest time, uh, even after I jumped and know, it took me like maybe 40, 50 [02:07:00] jumps after that, to get those people out of my head, you know, and you know.

Those people being in my head when I’m skydiving is dangerous, you know.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Gary Pacelli: So, when I finally got them out of my head, I felt it, like, oh man, okay. And it’s like, it’s like shaking off, like, the nerves, you know, like, okay, I got this. I mean, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, I don’t need to listen to these people that don’t know what they’re talking about, you know.

And, and so that, I learned that lesson

Scott DeLuzio: And they’re, they’re, they’re promoting the easy stuff, right? It’s easy to just not go skydiving. Just stay home. Just don’t do nothing. And yeah, sure. Is it safer, uh, to not go skydiving? Yeah, sure. For you, it’s kind of a necessity. It’s, it’s that thing that, like, like you were saying before, if I can go skydiving, I can go do the hard thing, whatever.

And for the listeners, you may not, skydiving might [02:08:00] not be your hard thing. There’s something else out there for you, right? But whatever it is, who cares? Um, that, that’s your thing. If you can go do that thing. Then, yeah, you can get your ass out of bed in the morning, even though you don’t want to, even though your body hurts or you’re, you’re mentally drained, whatever it is that you got going on, yeah, you could still get up out of bed because you’re able to do that hard thing.

So that’s, that’s why that was super important for you to, to be able to get out there and do that. And, uh, You know, going back to, you know, why you originally started skydiving in the first place, you, you had that like, emptiness, that thing that was missing for you, right? That’s not gonna change just because you had an accident, you know,

Gary Pacelli: Yeah, right,

Scott DeLuzio: gonna have that, that emptiness that you got to kind of fill there.

And and so I think you showing other people that yep, I had this accident I You know, it was a traumatic accident. It was awful, long recovery [02:09:00] process, still not a hundred percent back to, you know, the way you were. Um, but you’re able to get out there and do that. And it’s like an inspiration to those other people who see you out there, not quitting.

And. Putting one foot in front of the other, taking it one step at a time, doing things, yeah, sure, maybe a little bit slower than what you were before. Maybe not quite as agile and, you know, able to do, you know, everything that you were able to do before. Um, but shit, you’re still out there doing it. Um. You know, and I, I gotta say hats off to you.

I mean, I think that’s, that’s a, you know, an amazing thing to be able to do. And I think for, for the listeners, um, you know, use this as your own source of inspiration and be like, look, man, this, this guy had no use of his arms or legs, and now he’s out there skydiving. And it’s like, yeah, that, that could have gone terribly wrong.

Um, that mindset that you [02:10:00] had, that’s, that’s what got you to that point. And. You know, I think this is, this has been an incredible conversation. It’s been, you know, for me, this is kind of, uh, One of those inspirational things where it’s just like, I, I don’t know if I want this ever to end this conversation here, you know, but, um, you know, I know, I know eventually we got to, we got to kind of wrap it up, but, um, you know, for, for the listeners though, um, if you had like one kind of closing, like, you know, thing to, to kind of have them take away from this, this all, any, any, anything to kind of wrap it up, tie it up nice and neat and, uh, you know, have them walk away with that.

Gary Pacelli: Yeah, just, um, never give up, right? We don’t know the end of our story. And that’s, that’s, that’s it. But we don’t know how our story ends. And, uh, we just fight till the lights go out. That’s it. If you just fight till the lights go out, no matter what it is that you’re doing, you know, usually, like, you’ll get across the finish lines.

One way or the [02:11:00] other, you’ll, you’ll, you know, you’ll get across the finish line somehow.

Scott DeLuzio: And can you imagine what the shape of the world, the way things would be if, um, You know, we’re talking earlier, you know, if you, if you’re in that hand to hand combat kind of fight and you know, the adrenaline’s going and you’re, you’re giving it all you got in that moment. Right. And I know you can’t sustain that long term like that’s, that’s, that’s only something that you can do for short bursts and all that, but the mindset that never give up, never quit, never, you know, it doesn’t matter how tough things are, how hard things are getting, you just don’t give up.

On, on whatever it is, until, like you said, until the lights go out, until, it ain’t over until it’s over, right? Um, imagine if we all just had that mindset, and we just don’t fucking give up, for anything, you know?

Gary Pacelli: Don’t fucking give up, because, you know, once, um, a friend of mine said [02:12:00] this to me, right? He said that, He was going through something really bad and he was about to give up because he couldn’t see the, his words were, I couldn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel, right? And said, but what he didn’t realize was that the light was there. It’s always there. It’s just that he was so far down the tunnel that he couldn’t see it. So if he just kept inching his way forward, then eventually he saw the light. And then by seeing the light, it made it so much easier, but he had to inch his way forward to get

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and, and you, you gotta have something to, to climb towards, right? That, that light is the thing that you gotta climb towards, and if you’re not seeing it right now, Uh, you know, maybe, maybe you got to do a little bit of work to, to get there. Right. And, and I think just, you know, to make that analogy for, for people that like, that was the, the kind of the [02:13:00] moment where you were, you were in the hospital and you, you couldn’t see the light, right.

You were, you’re wanting to give up, but then in your head, you’re like, well, I got a wife, I got kids, I got, I got all these things going on in my life. Okay. Well, that’s your light now. That’s the thing that you got to go climb towards and, and get better for them. And yes, it’s going to be for you. You’re going to have that benefit as well.

But for them, I’m, I’m not quitting for anything. And as far as, as far as that’s concerned. And so, um, you know, that’s, that’s it. That’s it. I think that the, the takeaway, I mean, hell, that might even be the title of this episode is don’t give up, you know.

Gary Pacelli: Right. Right. Right. So the lights go out, don’t give

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, all that, you know, fight till the lights go out. I mean, that’s, it’s definitely the, the message I think people need to take away from this. Because, and, and again, you know, this, this show is largely, you know, a military veteran based, you know, audience. But we, You know, whether it’s law enforcement, whether it’s [02:14:00] military, um, you know, you have a military background as well, but, um, you know, we have that, that mindset drilled into us.

Like, you’re not going to give up on a mission, you know, you, you never quit on that. Right. And that’s, um, it doesn’t matter how much it sucks. Um, I remember just, you know, going back to basic training, you’re talking about, you know, how, how that kind of gets drilled into you. I remember we were, we were out in a, on a, you know, kind of mock patrol type thing.

And, uh, drill sergeant like pointed at a, Like a pricker bush and said that’s that’s where you need to be I’m like The fuck are you talking about? Like, I’m not gonna go lay in a pricker bush, that’s gonna hurt. He goes, yeah, but guess what? The enemy is not going to be walking through there, so they’re not going to find you there.

And I’m like, well, okay, shit. I mean, that’s, I guess that’s where we’re going to be. So I laid in it, it sucked, it hurt, but that’s, that’s what you need to do, right? Um, and you know, just the title of the show, Drive On, is like, when there, when there’s, there’s a shitty situation, like, yeah, it’s gonna suck, but.

Yeah, you gotta [02:15:00] do it, too. So just do it, get through it, move through, and fight till the lights go out. And, and, uh, I love that message.

Gary Pacelli: And, you know, even though like, uh, your partner, right, or, or, you know, the guy standing next to you or whatever, you know, like, um, when, when I had gotten to the shooting, right, and I made my way back to the car, you know, I, I, a lot of shit. Like, you know, why don’t you just sit on the side of the road and wait for the hospital? because I, my partner was chasing some dude down the road. What are you talking about?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you’re not gonna leave him alone, right?

Gary Pacelli: right. So like, and if that’s what motivates you, right? Like, so, you know, when you look around, there’s always something that’s going to motivate you. Right. And, and, and, and it’s just go that extra mile, man.

Scott DeLuzio: And just find out what that thing is. Um, yeah, it’s gonna take some time to maybe figure it out for some people, but, but, you got something. There’s something there.

Gary Pacelli: There’s something, [02:16:00] whatever it is.

Scott DeLuzio: Man, this has been a great conversation. Um, really inspirational. A lot of great takeaways from this conversation. I really do want to thank you for coming on the show and sharing all this with me and with, with the listeners. So thank you, Gary.

Gary Pacelli: right.