Episode 476 Healey Ikerd Finding Freedom from Anxiety and PTSD Transcript

This transcript is from episode 476 with guest Healey Ikerd.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] You’ve carried the weight of your service long after you took off the uniform. The sleepless nights, the constant edge, the feeling that no one around you really gets it. What if there was a way to start healing? Not just surviving, but actually feeling like yourself again. Today we’re gonna sit down with army veteran and licensed counselor Healey Eichardt.

She’s been where you are, and she spent nearly two decades helping veterans break free from anxiety, PTSD, and the stress that holds them back. If you’re looking for practical strategies and a fresh perspective on mental health, this episode is for you. So stay with us, and don’t forget, visit driveonpodcast.

com slash subscribe to get my top five episodes sent straight to your inbox. So let’s get into it.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio. And today my guest is Healey Eichardt. She’s a licensed professional counselor. She’s an army veteran, an author, and host of [00:01:00] the Healthy and Redeemed podcast. She’s worked in the mental health field for over 17 years, and she has a private education program.

She has a practice in Fayetteville, Arkansas called Hope Life Counseling, and she’s the author of Changing Your Feelings, a workbook for anxiety and worry from a Christian perspective, and a children’s book called The Red Ball, A Story of Friendship and Forgiveness. Her passion is to help others excel in life and relationships through biblical principles.

And today we’re going to be discussing common struggles faced by veterans and how they can excel in life. But before we get into all that, uh, Healey, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here.

Healey Ikerd: Thank you. I’m very happy to be here. Thanks for asking me.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So as an army veteran and now professional counselor, could you share with us, uh, the kind of unique perspective that you bring to the table in the mental health field, particularly within the, uh, military community?

Healey Ikerd: Well, um, yes, I have my expertise, and [00:02:00] then I did serve in the military. So it does kind of help when talking with, um, because there is certain lingo, as we know, in the military that maybe not everybody will understand. But also, it is interesting that, um, at least I’ve always thought about the hardest part of my transitioning was just Recognizing that I had the freedom to make decisions from that point forward and that was really hard to get out of that.

Like, if I wanted to go out of town, you know, you don’t have to request um, permission from somebody and it’s a, it was a really hard thing just that it’s all encompassing of your life and you don’t always realize that and it’s quite the adjustment to get out. Um, you know, and just do things differently, so, just understanding that whole perspective I think is helpful when I see military members, and often times, because I’ve got, you know, that I served in the military on my website, and so sometimes people do like, they go, [00:03:00] okay, at least she kind of knows.

I don’t have all the experiences everybody’s had, but at least I know some of the foundational military stuff.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And I think that’s important. Uh, and I don’t, I don’t think anybody expects, you know, a counselor or therapist that they are going to, to have all the experiences that, that they’ve had because nobody’s had the same experiences, right? I mean, Even two people who have served in combat had different experiences.

Some might have, you know, served many, many days in a row in combat situations, and some people may have just had, you know, one or two little small skirmishes and not to downplay those at all. Those are still significant events, but. They’re two different sides of, of, you know, the, the combat scenario there.

Right. And so, um, you know, I don’t think anybody expects that you’re going to have the exact same experience. Um, as a matter of fact, I, I’d hope nobody had the same experiences as, [00:04:00] as me or as,

Healey Ikerd: It probably wouldn’t.

Scott DeLuzio: cause those are terrible. Like, I wouldn’t wish that on anybody, you know, um, you know, but it is important, I think for some people anyways, that, That you do have some background knowledge on the military.

So like you said, some of the lingo, some of the, um, yeah, just basic ways that we interact with each other. Um, and I found through doing this podcast that conversations that I’ll have with veterans. Versus some of the civilians that I have on the show just come off a whole lot easier. Like by the end of the episode, like, like you and I, we hadn’t really spoken prior to this episode short of, uh, you know, maybe five minutes or so before we hit record.

Um, but by the end of the episode, uh, you know, you, in most cases, I feel like I’ve known the person for, for quite some time, because, just because we have that shared connection. And so I would imagine that from, uh, A counseling [00:05:00] perspective, it makes it a lot easier to hit the ground running as opposed to now I got to build the trust with the person and, and get that rapport and all that kind of stuff built up in this case, you know, you already have that background and that I would imagine makes it a little bit easier.

Right?

Healey Ikerd: Yeah. Yeah, because I think that, especially being in the military, you do feel a certain connection with, I mean, you may not have served with them, but technically you have. Like, we have all signed on that line saying we’re willing to give our life for our country. That does create a certain camaraderie of like, yeah, we’re, you know.

Brothers and sisters, and, um, yeah. And how the military can, we get a, especially, I mean, I went in when I was 17, a lot of your identity gets tied up in that, and so when you get out, like, that’s just a whole nother thing, too, of like, this is a whole part of who I was, like, people didn’t call me by my first, well, [00:06:00] friends did, but, you know, people didn’t call me by my first name, they called me by my last, like, it’s a whole, and by our rank, and so it’s just a whole, Identity thing, and it’s hard to explain that to people who haven’t served, but those who serve, they get it like right off the bat, like we know, we understand.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and, and the way I, I think I can maybe make it make sense for the folks maybe who haven’t served and they’re, they’re kind of scratching their head, like, I don’t get it, like what, I don’t understand why, uh, it’s like that. If you were to go visit another country and you’re the only American. In this country, that’s completely foreign to you.

Their, their culture is different. Their language is different. You know, the food and everything about the area that you’re in is different from what you are used to back home. And then you see this guy in blue jeans and a ball cap and, you know, t shirt and sneakers and stuff walking down the street. And you’re like, okay, that’s an American.

I’m going to go latch on to that person because we don’t even know each other, [00:07:00] but you and I, we’re going to be best friends for the duration of this trip. Right. And so that’s something that, that you probably can wrap your head around, right? Because yeah, okay, fine. Sure. Maybe you’re going to that place because you want to experience the culture and all that other stuff.

Right. But if you’re sitting there and you’re feeling a little uneasy because there’s so much. different. And okay, well, there’s that person that might bring that little sense of normalcy, you know, at least a shared language, you know, even if you don’t have shared interests, you may have a shared language.

And, and I think that’s kind of what we’re talking about here is that, like, we at least understand baseline terminology and things like that amongst each other,

Healey Ikerd: hmm, good, yes, that’s an excellent analogy.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, I, that’s, I, my brain works in analogies. Like I, whenever there’s like a foreign concept for me, uh, I, I usually just try to figure out like, okay, well, how, how do I relate that to something else?

And so I, that may be helpful for a listener. I don’t know if not, so be it, but all right, [00:08:00] let’s, let’s move on to your, your book that you wrote. So, uh, again, the title is Changing Your Feeling, a workbook for anxiety and worry from a Christian perspective. Um, And talk to us about the book, kind of where the idea for this book came from, and, uh, you know, something that maybe, you know, the military veteran, uh, listeners could take away from the book and apply in, in their daily lives.

Healey Ikerd: Well, the, um, the idea from their book just came from, I was doing a lot of, uh, counseling for anxiety and worry. It’s probably one of the top things that come into my office, that people come into my office for. And so I was saying a lot of the same things, and my clients will say this too, that I say a lot of the same things, um, but that’s how life is, right?

We say a lot of the same things. Um, so. And just having friends come to me and things like, I was like, it’d be great to just have all this written down. And I was kind of just trying to do a little bit of like, [00:09:00] maybe a little small booklet on coping skills. But as I was working through it, I kept adding, I’m like, Oh, I think this would be helpful.

I think this would be helpful. And just, it just became a whole workbook. And I like workbooks because I think, um, sometimes we can read a book and take the. We’ll take in the knowledge, but we won’t necessarily apply it. We’ll know what to do, but we won’t actually do it. Um, and workbooks give us that opportunity, at least the way I created mine, to actually apply the knowledge and to work it out and practice throughout the week or whatever is the case.

You know, as the section may lead. So, they actually have to do the work. So, they have to be a little motivated.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, you know, and I think that’s an important piece of it too, as, as you’re talking, I, I, the, the light bulb went off in my head that, Yeah, [00:10:00] sure, you can read a book, get all the greatest ideas in the world, it can solve all the world’s problems through reading the book. And you’ll know maybe even exactly how to do it, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to have the motivation to do it.

Um, and so, when You are in a situation where maybe you’re depressed and you’re struggling to find the motivation to even get out of bed and put your clothes on and take a shower, brush your teeth, those types of things, going and applying these, uh, these things that you read in a book, that’s going to be a big ask

Healey Ikerd: Mm hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: somebody, right?

Um, and, and so if you have at least the motivation to open up this book, All right. Okay. Well then that’s step one, I think, you know, like little, let’s take little baby steps, right? Take step one. And then, okay, well, there’s a little bit of work that you might need to do. Okay. We’ll start doing some of that work.

And then as you’re doing that [00:11:00] work, um, I think part of what you’re saying is that when you are physically doing something, maybe it’s writing in a workbook or, or whatever the case may be, however the workbook is laid out, um, you become more invested in it and. I’m more motivated to want to see it work, right?

Not to say that people don’t want to get the benefit of whatever book that they might have read, but you’re invested in it because you’ve already spent some time and energy doing that. I mean, I know reading is a doing thing, but you’re, you’re,

Healey Ikerd: hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: you’re creating something, right? If you’re writing in a workbook, those are your thoughts, your ideas, your whatever it is that you’re putting in there.

It’s, that’s on you. And. Well, great that that author wrote this book and had, you know, a nice publisher who put it out there in the bookstores and Amazon and all these other [00:12:00] places, but this is me. I’m making this book mine now by putting in my information, my ideas and everything, and that’s going to make it a little bit more of a motivational tool to want to see that work, because you’ve already invested some time and energy into it, right?

And I think that’s the idea behind having some sort of workbook, you know, whether it’s like yours, or I know there’s others like it out there. Um, You know, that four different areas of people’s lives that, that, you know, you might want to improve. Um, but that’s, I think, kind of the idea that maybe the psychological, uh, you know, reason behind why those work better than, uh, you know, just, just reading a book, right?

Healey Ikerd: Right. I think so. I think that, you know, when you’re in a book, and this, I read books all the time, so I’m not ditching books in general, but when you’re working on a specific thing, and trying to get [00:13:00] that thing out of your life, it is, because books can go from idea to idea to idea, and so you’re just kind of reading along.

When you have to stop and actually look at and, and Think about and apply what it says. That does make it a little bit more, or you a little bit more accountable to actually do the stuff. If I, if in there, like, cause I kind of have it laid out like how counseling sessions would go. So the first part is like setting your goals.

Those are your personal goals. What does, if you want to reduce anxiety or anything in your life, what does What does life without that look like? And so that’s going to be different for each person. And then an assessment of where you are right now. What does that look like and where are some areas that you can improve?

Cause some things might be really good for some people not so good for others. So it’s, Hopefully just laid out in a way that can be very [00:14:00] helpful for people to work through, make it personal, and then apply as they move through. So, you do have to be a little motivated. Again, that does take some motivation, just like going to counseling.

Like it, you have to be willing to do the work, and that is always the hard part. So, if you can get that part, you’re, you know, most of the way.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, I mean, and, and part of it is just showing up. You know, even, even for therapy, you know, in, in counseling, when, when you walk in the door, That’s sometimes a big battle that people have to overcome and, you know, just getting in that door, hey, chalk that up as a success. You’ve done something positive towards, you know, improving your mental health just by showing up.

Um, and then, yeah, okay, fine, maybe that first session isn’t really, you know, It’s taken hold, but you know, as, as time goes on, that it becomes easier to show up and then, okay, now we can start [00:15:00] to see some of the benefits of, of doing it. And then, yeah, sure. There’s, there’s maybe some homework that you might need to do depending on the type of therapy that you’re going through and, and all that type of stuff.

But, um, that all of that is motivation, right? And it’s, I think easy, um, kind of to your point, why, you know, you chose to go with a workbook as opposed to a just read it book. I think. For me anyways, when I’ve read a book, it’s easy for me to read that and be like, Oh, well, that doesn’t apply to me. So I’m not going to do that.

You know, whereas if I am writing down my goals, my, uh, what, what is the next year look like? What is, you know, what is, what is good look like in my eyes? now that’s me. I can’t say, no, well, uh, geez, that’s, that’s not me, you know, well, of course it’s me, I wrote it, you know, so, um, that’s, it’s, it’s a good point, point of view to have, um, now, your, your book takes a, uh, [00:16:00] Christian, uh, point of view from, uh, from this, tell us how it’s maybe different from some other, uh, workbooks or other, uh, points of view that maybe doesn’t include a, uh, religious aspect to it.

Sure.

Healey Ikerd: Well, it’s probably the same if you take the religious part out of it. It is, because it is psychology based in that I use, um, cognitive behavioral therapy as my foundation. And there There’s a lot of that in the Bible also, and so that’s why I integrated it specifically for Christians to speak that language and give them a foundation of this is how God wants us to work this out.

Um, now the workbook might be kind of hard to pull out the religious aspects and just have people go through. Um, I mean, you could, to be honest. Depending, but, you know, coming to counseling, I can, like, just speak the cognitive behavioral language without the faith aspect, but, [00:17:00] um, I, I really, I mean, faith is how I view the world, so, um, yeah, that’s, you know, that came natural just to write it for Christians specifically struggling, because that, those were people that were calling me a lot and like.

Feeling shame about feeling anxiety and, um, just negative thoughts in general, like, and I really wanted to help them with the foundation of the Word of God and psychology and blend those together to help them just walk a life in more freedom.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, and I think it’s important, too, that you pointed that out, because, you know, in a therapy session, yeah, sure, you could, um, remove some of the more religious language from the conversation and just stick strictly to the psychology of what it is that you’re talking about. Um, obviously, in a book, it’s going to be a lot harder to, um, Take the black and white words off the [00:18:00] page and, and remove, you know, the way it’s, it’s written.

Um, but that’s, I think that’s the point of it is it’s written for a particular type of audience, you know? Okay. This is written for, you know, from a Christian perspective. And, and so if, if that’s not you, okay, well. That’s not you. That’s, that’s fine. Um, you know, but I think the, the important part is that, um, that the people who do identify with, with that, they are, they’re able to, uh, maybe wrap their heads around, you know, from a biblical perspective, why is it that maybe I feel the way that I feel or that I’m acting the way I’m acting or doing the things that I’m doing and, and how do I, you know, How do I make the positive changes, you know, the way, um, the way it basically talks about in, in the Bible, like you were, you were saying, right?

And so, um, [00:19:00] so I think that’s kind of an important perspective to have, you know, with, with that, uh, with that workbook is that that’s basically what it’s written for, you know, is, is from that Christian perspective. So, um, you know, What would you say, um, you know, maybe are some of the more common struggles, uh, that, that people typically are grappling with, uh, you know, especially, you know, on the, the veteran side.

Um, and, and how do you deal with, with those types of, uh, issues, uh, that, that you might see?

Healey Ikerd: Yeah, I see mostly, um, and this is probably across the board, but military members especially like trauma, of course, and that can look different. It’s not all combat. Some of it’s other kinds of trauma within the military, but also anxiety and depression. Um, and normally it, the trauma is kind of the trigger that brings some of that stuff [00:20:00] to the surface.

Sometimes they can have it without it, but sometimes even a A smaller, I don’t know if that’s a great word, trauma can bring up a lot of these other things like something that, um, what we call it, little t trauma, big t trauma, but basically, you know, sometimes just any kind of traumatic event that happens can just bring out the anxiety and, and the depression.

So that’s. You know, and I work basically the same, um, with those, and it really depends on kind of what they’re experiencing, um, of where we go and how, like, the route that we take. So maybe we just work on reducing symptoms of anxiety first, and then go back as they get some coping skills that then they can work through the bigger trauma, um, that kind of exacerbated the So, [00:21:00] that’s kind of where we go.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And from the, the folks that I’ve spoken with, um, I, I’ve started to kind of piece together some little pieces of, you know, where people are. Uh, experiencing the different types of trauma that they’ve experienced, and of course, a lot of them, you know, being military, combat is a big thing, um, you know, other things, you know, related to their military service are, are big areas where they, they’ve experienced traumas, but to your point, oftentimes that, that trauma just kind of digs up stuff from under the surface that maybe they experienced years and years ago that they may just have forgotten about and they just figured out how to deal with it but it’s kind of bubbled back up to the surface and now not only are they dealing with the trauma of [00:22:00] combat situation that they were in but now they’re also dealing with this trauma from sometimes even decades ago where Now you’ve got both of these things that you’re trying to figure out how to deal with, and a lot of times in their mind, the combat is the thing that needs to be fixed.

But oftentimes it’s also that, that thing from years ago that also needs to be fixed and, I, I wonder if it’s, can they be tackled simultaneously or is it something where you, you might want to isolate your approach and, and start just, let’s just talk about that thing that happened years ago, or let’s, let’s handle the thing that’s happening now, the, the more recent combat trauma, or, or is there a combination of, of things?

How does that typically work in your environment? Sure.

Healey Ikerd: Yeah, it, it really kind of depends on the trauma and like what, what’s going on with them specifically. Um, sometimes like if it’s a, um, [00:23:00] loss of a, um, You know, fellow soldier, soldier or something, that can bring up a loss that they experienced way when they’re young. I mean, as therapists, we always try to go to the youngest, um, memory or traumatic memory to kind of help them work through that.

Um, and that’s normally the, the best place to go, but, you know, if there was none of that, and they have just, you know, a, Vehicle exploded or like whatever’s going on, like something really traumatic. I mean, I’m always, I like to work on coping skills first because sometimes Because you have to go back in the trauma to work through the trauma and that can be very hard if you’ve got no coping skills.

That’s why a lot of people will drink or use drugs because they’re trying to cope with all that stuff. It’s hard and it’s big, um, but there is healing for it. It just takes a lot of courage to kind of [00:24:00] walk back through that with somebody. So that does take a while to get because they, you You know, you want to build some trust with them, you want to make sure that they have enough coping skills to do that, and then anything else that’s hindering their kind of walking through that, um, you want to make sure that you deal with all those other things, because you don’t ever want them to feel unsafe as they did when they actually experienced the trauma, so, um, you don’t want to re traumatize them.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, right, right. Yeah. And I’ve, I’ve heard of, you know, situations where that has happened as well. And that’s, like you said, that’s not where you want to be. You don’t want to be doing that type of thing. Um, but something you brought up is that, you know, a lot of times people will self medicate drugs, alcohol, things like that, because that’s the only thing that they know that makes them feel any better at the time.

And, um, I think we know now that that’s not. It’s not a good long term [00:25:00] coping strategies, but not even a good short term coping strategy, it’s, it’s overall, it’s

Healey Ikerd: it works a little bit short term, that’s why people do it.

Scott DeLuzio: right.

Healey Ikerd: just got very bad, yeah, consequences

Scott DeLuzio: then that leads you down that, that, that hole, that bad hole of, well, it worked last time, so let’s do it again. And hey, well, well, let’s do it again and again. And eventually that short term becomes a long term. And that’s, that’s not a great place to be. Right. Um,

Healey Ikerd: yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: and, and so, and Unfortunately, it’s a common thing that we, we hear about is, is people just abusing drugs or alcohol because that’s all that they know.

Um, is, is there anything that we can look out for in the military, the veteran community to help recognize when, you know, mental health help is needed, uh, hopefully before it gets that point where the drugs and alcohol become a problem. Ideally, you know, but [00:26:00] you know, even if they have become a problem, are there things that, like signs that we can look out for, things that we can pay attention to that will help us identify whether or not this is a, uh, you know, candidate for, you know, some sort of mental health, uh, help?

Healey Ikerd: One of the things that I always ask one If people have experienced trauma or something difficult, like if they’re drinking or doing something else that’s not helpful, and are they doing it as a coping skill? So if you’re, like, drinking in and of itself isn’t bad, but if you’re using it to make it through the day, or to, um, quiet the memories, or to feel decent, or to just quiet the, the, Sounds like that is not good, that we need healthy coping skills, and I’d consider that an unhealthy coping skill.

And so, that is one thing to look forward, uh, look to, is like, why [00:27:00] am I doing this behavior? Now, we can trick ourselves and go, no, I’m just doing it, you know, because I enjoy it. Um, so, it will require a little honesty of, ourselves to go, why am I doing this particular behavior? And it isn’t just drinking or doing drugs.

It can be shopping. It can be eating. It could be gambling. There’s so many things that are in and of themselves aren’t bad, but if we’re doing it to cope with something, then we know that’s not a helpful thing to do. We want to cope in a healthy way and not cause even more, um, problems. So, Yeah, that would be a good, um, for someone to be honest with themselves.

If, if someone’s just looking in, I would say, if people are having, or if they’re doing things, or not doing things that are impairing their life somehow, um, that’s always a good thing to look for, too. So, if, am I only getting arguments [00:28:00] with my spouse when I drink, or am I, you know, just, um You know, getting in trouble at work, or not going to work, or, I mean, and this can be with anxiety or depression as well.

Like, how’s it, how’s it affecting my life? Because some people can manage, they’ll have depressed feelings, but they manage it and learn how to work through it, and still can go on with their life, and it doesn’t impair. But if you’re staying in bed a lot, and missing work, or, um, isolating from friends, like, those are some signs that, It might be an issue to work on and not just let those things happen because they get worse.

There’s no getting better by just ignoring it. Like you have to do something if you want it to be better because it certainly can.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I’m glad that you brought some of those other things up that you were talking about, um, you know, in addition to drugs, alcohol, you know, there’s things like shopping [00:29:00] or, uh, you know, other, other things like that with, or gambling, um, other, um, even other kind of risky behaviors that you might be doing, you know, speeding on the highway, you know, like trying to get that adrenaline rush going, but doing things that are stupid dangerous, not, not like, you know, You know, skydiving where it might be safe.

You have a parachute, right? You’re not, you’re not just jumping out of an airplane, wishing for the best. You know, you’re, you, you got a plan in place, right? And, but when you’re speeding down the highway, uh, like there’s a lot of things that are out of your control, other drivers and things like that, uh, that that’s just stupid and it is going to put other people or yourself in, in a serious danger.

Um, and so when, when you’re doing these things. And to your point that are affecting your day to day life, that’s probably a good, good indication, right? Um, and, and another thing that [00:30:00] you brought up is, is being honest with yourself. And, uh, I know when I got back from Afghanistan and we had, you know, mandatory mental health screenings, my primary goal was just getting back home to my family.

And, uh, yep. No, I’m doing fine. Check all those boxes that say I’m doing fine and get me out of here. You know, that was my mindset. But, long term, that wasn’t very beneficial because I didn’t get the help that I needed early on and it made things worse because I was that person that you were talking about.

I was, I was drinking too much, I was not functioning very well and, um, you know, I, you know, I was fumbling through every day, and it was just not, it was, I was kind of a, kind of a wreck, and had I gotten the help early on, I could have avoided all of that, and, I just wasn’t being honest with myself or, you know, or the other people who were asking the questions because, [00:31:00] you know, they’re not sitting there asking these questions because they have nothing else to do.

They’re asking the questions because they actually care,

Healey Ikerd: Because it’s impairing your life, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and they, they want to provide you with this, this help and support and, um, whether you think you need it or not, I mean, give it a shot anyways, right? And, Who knows, maybe, maybe you discover something about yourself, and maybe you’re not quite as good as you thought you were, and maybe you realize, hey, I really did need that help, you know, worst case scenario, you, you, you know, waste an hour in a, in an office, and, and you, uh, you know, find out, okay, yeah, no, maybe I actually am okay, but, as far as I’m, I’m concerned, you know, my mindset about all of this has completely changed from when I came back, because, I just wanted to be done with it and get out of there, um, versus just investing a little time and getting the, the, [00:32:00] getting my mind right so I didn’t have to rely on drinking and, and it just didn’t help, you know, so, um, but I know there’s, there’s probably family members out there too, who, or loved ones, you know, people who care about these people, right, who are struggling, um, and oftentimes Other people can see it before we see it ourselves.

You know, Oh, I’m fine. It’s just a couple, I’m just having a few extra drinks tonight or whatever. I’m, I’m yeah, I’m sure I’m staying out late and I got to work early in the morning, but I’ll be fine. I’ll be fine. I do it all the time. And a little extra coffee in the morning. I’ll be, I’ll be just fine. You know, that type of mentality we often have with ourselves, but you know, our, our family members maybe can see it in us or even coworkers or, you know, friends or whoever, um, they can see it in us that it’s like, no, there’s actually something not quite right there.

Um, [00:33:00] you know, do you have any advice for those folks who are maybe outside looking in to the situation who might be struggling with understanding, first off, the emotional issues that they may be having, but also how can they help encourage them to get the help that they, they might need?

Healey Ikerd: Yeah, it is really hard for a family member to watch, you know, your loved ones struggle with things, especially in their, when they’re in denial, and most of the time, you know. I mean, that’s one thing that, our mind is very, a little tricky thing. We can make it. Think whatever we want, which is good, but it’s also bad because we end up justifying a lot of behavior.

When, you know, if, I, I would say definitely bring your concerns to the person because they’re not gonna know unless you actually say something and that’s for the person having the hard time. It’s important to listen to your family members [00:34:00] because if they’re saying something that probably means there is an issue.

Um, and, I would also encourage them, they may need to get some support around them and not be quiet about that. Because, um, that sometimes can make the person with the veteran also having, start having their own issues. So it’s important to at least get support. But they can educate themselves. There are like lots of resources on some different veterans and military sites that, that can help.

I I’m not a big fan of, of just Googling all sorts of diagnoses because sometimes we just want to stick a label on people and not actually just, um, work on the symptoms of that. Um, and it’s also important when, um, We’re trying to help a family member deal with some of those things, is to also [00:35:00] let them experience some of the consequences of their behavior.

Like, we’re not to call into their job and, you know, tell them, oh, they’re sick today or something. Like, they do need to experience some consequences, because normally we don’t change or are motivated to change until we actually experience some consequences. So, yeah, I think that’s it. Um, our behaviors, so if a family member’s just trying to protect them, like, I get it, I understand, and I’m, I’m like a mom, like, I totally get the protection aspect of, like, we don’t want them to fall and hurt themselves, but at the same time, sometimes that’s the most important thing that you can do is, is letting them experience those consequences.

That’s not easy. That’s why you need support around you that people can speak truth and, and, and, and things into your life so that you can be strong and brave. And I would just say to military members or veterans, you know, there, here’s [00:36:00] one of the things I say a lot. It takes strength and courage to go to counseling.

To walk in to say, I need help, that takes a strong person to do that. And the military is made up of strong individuals. They were willing to give their life for their country.

That makes you strong already. So, I want to say to them, you are strong. You have the strength within you. Don’t let fear make the decision for you. But you Choose strength and courage and to, um, reach out for help if you need it. We, we aren’t meant to do our walks by ourself. And that’s why people find healing when they can go to someone else or even walk beside someone else or do a program or be in a group or whatever that takes it.

There’s healing in that and there’s a reason for that. [00:37:00] Because we can’t do it alone. Everything by ourself. There are some things we can do by ourselves and some people have managed some traumas by themselves, that’s great. But if you’re not doing it well, you might need to just reach out to someone and know that that doesn’t mean you’re weak, it means you’re strong.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I think, too, just kind of, um, putting this together in, you know, maybe another analogy that, that might help people wrap their heads around, uh, what you’re talking about is that there are so many things that we rely on other people for in our day to day lives. I do not have a green thumb to save my life.

So if I want fruits or vegetables or any of that, I need to go to the grocery store. Well, there’s people at the grocery store who stock the shelves and all that, but there’s people who drive the trucks from, you know, wherever the, the produce came [00:38:00] from to the store. And then there’s people who grow the food that I eat and, and those are the people, um, you know, that, that we all rely on.

Right. So, um, I don’t cut my own hair because I don’t want to look like a clown. I, you know, I, I don’t, I don’t do my own car maintenance cause I’m not good at that either. And now to your point, there are a couple of things I can do. You know, I can change, you know, I can change my windshield wipers. I could change, you know, I, I could, I could, you know, do tire, you know, type things.

I could do certain things with my car. When it comes to the engine, I don’t have a clue. So. Yeah, I might be able to manage with some stuff. I can’t manage with everything though. So if my car starts making this funny noise, I’m going to have to bring it to the mechanic to have the mechanic check it out. And I don’t think anybody’s going to look at me like, Oh my God, what, um, what a psycho, like, I can’t believe you, you [00:39:00] would bring your car to a mechanic. You wouldn’t just drive it around with that funny noise all the time. Come on. Right. No, that would be, that would be crazy. Right. And yes, could I learn how to do that?

I could. Then. I’m not doing the other things that I need to be doing, right? I, I have a job and to learn how to become a mechanic, that, Anyone who’s become a mechanic, they know that it takes some time to, to learn all that, that stuff that they’ve learned. I don’t, I don’t have time for that. So I’m going to need to rely on somebody else to do that. Same thing, same thing with the food example that I gave too. Like, I might need to have some food tonight for dinner. I don’t have time to learn how to grow it right now. It’s not going to grow in the next, you know, 8 hours or so before dinner time, it’s just not going to work. So yeah, I’m going to have to rely on somebody so I can go to the store and get, get my groceries.

Um, you know, so we, we rely on people on, in [00:40:00] so many different areas of our lives, uh, we rely on other people. And when it comes to something as important as our, our brain and what we have going on up there, we’re like, ah, you know what, the heck with it, I’ll figure it out. You know, I’ll, I’ll, I’m stronger than that.

I can, I can handle it. Like, it’s not about being strong or weak or anything, it’s about doing what you need to do in order to get the end result that you’re looking for. I want a car that doesn’t have a squeaky noise. I want food on my table tonight for dinner. I want my thoughts to not be so intrusive.

I want, you know, that memory that keeps replaying in my head, not to Take control of my life. I want to not have to drink every single night just to be able to fall asleep You know, why not go talk to somebody and get the help? Is it embarrassing? Well, I don’t know. Is it [00:41:00] embarrassing for me that I don’t know how to grow vegetables in my garden?

I don’t know. It’s not, I, I don’t have a problem admitting that, you know, I don’t have a problem admitting that I have to take my car to a mechanic, um, you know, just suck it up and deal with it. If it’s, if it, you feel like it’s embarrassing, like, it’s not that big of a deal. Nobody’s sitting there judging you.

Healey Ikerd: Well, nobody has to know except maybe your spouse and the counselor that you go, you go see. But think about the military in general. Do we do anything on our own? I mean, it is all together as a group. So you think, like, That is part of how we just do life anyway. We don’t do it by ourselves. We do it with others.

So you can pick up your others wisely. In the military, we don’t have much of a choice of, you know, who’s there, but we do when it comes to our healing, like where we’re going to get that, who we’re going to choose to walk beside us, and we choose somebody that’s trustworthy and knowledgeable, that [00:42:00] encourages us and gives us hope and, and.

Ables us to think, I can do this, because whoever’s out there struggling, who hasn’t reached out for help, I promise you, there is healing on the other side. You can get there. Um, just don’t do it by yourself, because that’s not, that’s not the military way.

Scott DeLuzio: No, exactly. No, and, and that’s a very good point too, because even from day one of basic training, you had, you had a battle buddy that you did everything with, you went everywhere with that person. Like, you couldn’t even go to the bathroom alone, you know? Like,

Healey Ikerd: They knew where you were at all times.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, exactly. Like, you had some, there was someone showering right next to you.

Come on, if you, if you’re, if you weren’t embarrassed by that, come

Healey Ikerd: Then you can

Scott DeLuzio: you could do anything, right? Yeah.

Healey Ikerd: my, like, I want to instill hope in people because I do believe everybody can be [00:43:00] healed from whatever that they have gone through or whatever they’re struggling with. Healing is there. It just takes a little route that maybe you don’t necessarily want to go, but to know that it is there, you can live life without, like all the things that you mentioned, like, that, that’s achievable.

It’s actually, I’m not just making that up, like, people can walk through the hardest of things. It’s the hardest of things and find healing.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And, and you hear stories of, of people who’ve experienced some outrageous things. Um, you know, where the odds were stacked against them and they, there were, you know, a hundred guys coming after them and it’s like a hundred to one kind of battle or something like that. And they somehow miraculously survived.

And I don’t know, that would do a number on me. I’m, I’m pretty sure, but they still figured out a way to come out on the other side of that. Or, you know, they, you know, They were blown up and [00:44:00] lost a limb or multiple limbs and, um, couldn’t see the purpose of living life without these limbs. And then, all of a sudden, they, you know, something switched in them or somebody helped them see a way to make that switch in their mind.

And now all of a sudden they, they’re like, you know, that was the greatest thing that could have ever happened to me. And they, they’re living their best life now. And, um, you know, so. If those people can do it, to your point, you know, to give hope to people, if those people can do it, why can’t you? Why can’t anybody who’s listening to this right

Healey Ikerd: hmm,

Scott DeLuzio: find some sort of strength or inspiration or see that little shimmer of light at the end of that tunnel?

Um, yeah, maybe a long tunnel you have to go through, but you know, at some point, um, that light’s going to start getting brighter and, and eventually you’ll, you’ll see, you’ll see that. All that hard work does pay off. And, and just like hard work with anything, um, [00:45:00] when you look back on it, something you can be proud of, right?

Healey Ikerd: right. So tell me, Scott, how therapeutic has been doing a podcast been for you?

Scott DeLuzio: You know, I kind of joke sometimes with people, um, and I do want to get into your podcast as well, so maybe we’ll flip the script here and we’ll, we’ll, uh, ask the same question that you just asked me, I’ll ask it to you, but, um, you know, for, for me, I joke with people, uh, sometimes that, I kind of do this podcast a little bit selfishly, because I get a little bit of benefit because I get to talk to different people all the time, I get to hear their perspectives and their thoughts and ideas or, or what they have done for their therapy.

And sometimes it’s not your traditional, you know, Go to a therapist, sit in the office, talk about your thoughts and feelings and all these other things. Sometimes, you know, it’s people going surfing or riding a horse or, uh, you know, going, you know, playing [00:46:00] paintball or something. I don’t know, something, just something, uh, that helps them.

And these, these things, for me, it’s like, okay, well, there’s not any one path. that people take. Sometimes they may take one path and then they veer off to another path because that one path, while it was good, it served its purpose, so that there’s something else that’s maybe better, uh, you know, might be more helpful.

And so it’s really opened my mind to all the other possibilities. Because before I started the podcast, as far as I was concerned, if you needed help with Your mental health, it was you and a therapist and that’s it. Those that was your option. And if, if that wasn’t working for you, well, I guess you’re outta luck.

And like that was, that was where my mindset was. But then, you know, through talking to all these different people, ’cause I, I had an open mind. I said, you know, obviously it’s, you know, look at the statistics and the, the 22 [00:47:00] veterans a day who, who take their lives, if that’s even a correct number. I don’t know, uh, you know, what the actual number is anymore, but. so many people are doing that and if all of them had gone to therapy or all of them had done, you know, something, you know, there, there could be a lot fewer of them. And so, for me, it’s been beneficial because I get to hear the other side of the story and listen to other people’s perspectives, uh, you know, thought processes and things like that.

Um And sometimes it’s inspirational too, where, where you hear somebody who, they went through some of the most traumatic experiences you could imagine. Um, I had a guy on, uh, a few episodes ago where he, um, he experienced a skydiving accident and, uh, broke his neck and he was paralyzed and thought he was going to die, didn’t end up dying, wanted to [00:48:00] die, then realized, Man, life is, life is gonna be great.

It’s gonna be different, but it’s gonna be great,

Healey Ikerd: mm hmm,

Scott DeLuzio: learn to walk again, and all these things. It was, to me, like, that was super inspirational, and this guy had gone through so many other things, too. Like, if, for the listeners, if you haven’t listened to that, go back and, and find that episode, and, and listen through it.

It was such a, uh, Inspiring episode, uh, it was Gary Pacelli, uh, was the, uh, the guest on that episode, but, uh, go, go listen to that episode. It was really, uh, inspiring, but, um, you know, for me just hearing other people, I think it’s just, just been incredible and helpful, um, you know, for, for me and my, my own healing.

Um, so yeah, I, I kind of do it a little selfishly too.

Healey Ikerd: Well, it sounds like there’s several components that podcasting has helped, and it is therapeutic in the sense because you’re doing two things. You’re listening and hearing other people’s [00:49:00] story. That helps us be emotionally healthy as we listen to other people’s story, but also as we serve other people, too, because your podcast is of value.

And, um, as we serve or help others, that is therapeutic for us also. And then I heard you. I say that’s also like a coping skill. Like, it is something that brings you joy and, um, something that you enjoy doing. It probably does make you feel very refreshed and restored after you, um, do one. That, that’s helpful, too, that we can look to things to bring that into our life, um, that does bring us joy or that we enjoy doing.

Um, and if it’s got the aspect of. Listening to others or serving others then even better because you’re even making a greater impact so that’s awesome. So I I guess I did ask that because that’s important that we can all integrate something it doesn’t have to be a counselor [00:50:00] but something that’s therapeutic for us.

It can still help us heal but it is something outside of ourselves too that does include other people but also it It helps us feel good. We

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and, and for someone like me, so I, like, this is gonna probably sound weird because I, I host podcasts, I, I’m talking to people all the time, uh, but I’m very introverted, and, so, get, putting me in big crowds with lots of people, or, or even just talking, like, in a group of people where there’s, there’s multiple people around, it, I, I kind of just, like, shut down, and I’m, I’m done, and I’m out.

But one on one, I’m good. And, you know, for short spurts, you know, like we’re, we’re talking, you know, it’s going to be, you know, roughly an hour or so that we, we’ve been talking. I’m good with that. You know, even if it went a little bit longer, I I’d be good with that too. Um, and then I get to recharge after that.

Like I can need to kind of decompress, recharge and kind of just be. By myself for a little bit and then then I’m good [00:51:00] Versus, you know, like if I was to go to a group therapy session where there’s you know 10 or 15 other people in a you know in a room. No, thanks. Um, I just wouldn’t Do very well in a situation like that.

So you know, so it’s it’s I think it’s you know, ultimately finding what works for you and Just following that and so Hell, go start a podcast if you want, you know, like, and, you know, maybe, maybe it’s just grab some, some friends and start talking and record it and see what happens, you know, maybe you don’t even put it out there.

It’s just, you know, getting people together and talking. And, um, you know, one of the, you know, the COVID situation was, you know, You know, I don’t think anyone wants to go through that again, but one of the great things is, you know, is kind of introduce people to all this video technology where you can have conversations with people, you know, I’ve talked to people all over the world doing this podcast, and I would never get a chance to talk to people like [00:52:00] that had this technology not existed, you know, this podcast wouldn’t probably exist.

Uh, you know, we, we likely wouldn’t be talking either because it would just be too difficult, too time consuming, costly to have these conversations. So that’s another thing that I, I find a huge benefit from is, is being able to talk to people from all over the place.

Healey Ikerd: Yeah. That’s awesome. COVID did bring some good things. Some,

Scott DeLuzio: Well, uh, Talking about podcasts, let’s talk about your podcast.

I mentioned it in the intro, the Healthy and Redeemed podcast. Uh, what can listeners, uh, extract from it? What, you know, what can maybe help them in their healing journey and their mental wellness, all that kind of stuff. Uh, what, what can they get from that, that show?

Healey Ikerd: Well, I just started in November 2020. 20, 24, so it’s very new. And, uh, but, um, yeah, anything to do with emotional, uh, mental or spiritual health is my focus. So I want [00:53:00] people, and especially Christians, to be healthy. Um, so, and it’s very obtainable, so I talk from, um, Um, how to be emotionally healthy, to coping skills, to, um, I just did a little series on, um, changing our thoughts, learning how to change our thoughts, um, because that is really the key to, to changing our life, I believe.

Um, so yeah, I’ll be talking about lots of stuff going on, so. I, I, I like to help people and I like to chat. I am an introvert also. I did broadcast journalism as my undergraduate degree and so I always wanted to have a radio show. And so this, talk about doing something that brings some joy to your life.

That, of course, you know, I have integrated kind of the counseling aspect with the podcast. But, um [00:54:00] Wow, how neat that I don’t have to go ask a radio station to do a Healy show.

Scott DeLuzio: Right,

Healey Ikerd: I could just create my own.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, I think

Healey Ikerd: I hope people listen.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah. And that’s the other thing that I think is so great about podcasts is like literally anyone can do it. You, you can. You don’t have to have any fancy setup or equipment or anything like that. You can literally, you can record your own voice or, you know, other people on your phone.

And that’s pretty much all you need. Um, you know, you just gotta be able to publish it out there. And there’s some free services out there that help you get, get your episodes out there, but that’s pretty much it. Like you don’t need much else. You don’t need a whole radio station with the, Radio towers and professional equipment and all that kind of stuff.

Healey Ikerd: And working a certain shift and all that stuff,

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and, and that’s the other thing too, that I like about it is. It’s not live. Like right now for the listeners, I’m going to clue you in on something right now. It’s January 18th. This episode’s not [00:55:00] coming out until the end of March. Um, like we don’t have to be live right in, in that time slot, you know, where now you need to be available when my show is on and, and, and I would need to be available when somebody else’s show is on.

Like, that’s not the way podcasting works. And it’s great because it takes so much stress out of it. Um, you know, because. If I’m sitting here and it’s like, okay, well, the show’s starting and you know, it’s been a couple of minutes and the guest still isn’t here. Ah, you know, so that, that makes it so much more stressful.

I probably wouldn’t do it because I wouldn’t enjoy it anymore. It would just be, it’d be too stressful, too much of a drag, especially if the guest didn’t show up and then it’s like, what, now what do I do? I got to talk for an hour to Phil. Space, right? And that to me just doesn’t seem appealing. And so, uh, you know, for me, a benefit, another benefit of the podcast, um, is that it’s available.

So, you know, easily available for me to put stuff out there, but it’s [00:56:00] also free for the listeners to be able to listen to, so long as you have access to the internet, um, which, you know, pretty much everyone does nowadays, even if you have to go to a library or something, you can still access the internet and figure out a way to, um, you know, get access to these episodes, so, um, you know, I think that’s the best part of it, it’s just, it’s freely available to everybody,

Healey Ikerd: Right. Yeah, that’s, that’s one thing I thought, too, as I was, like, sharing. information on my podcast, because it’s just me, I don’t do interviews, or haven’t yet, but um, just sharing information that I feel like, why do, why do counselors have to keep all this information to themselves? Why can’t they just share out there, so if somebody does want to change, I’ll give homework on, on the podcast, so if somebody does want to change their, um, mental health, um, then they can tune in and, and hear, like, Um, [00:57:00] you know, just like a counseling session, but it’s not a counseling session, but you can get a lot of the same information, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and I think that’s, that’s similar to a lot of, uh, a lot of podcasts that are out there where, you know, like a business may, maybe talking about their industry or, or whatever. Sometimes you got to give a little advice and, and that might just plant the seed in somebody’s head that, yeah, you know what, this is, this is the thing that’s right for me.

And, um, that, that will help them along their way to get that, service, uh, that, that you might be talking about, you know, whether it’s, you know, mental health, uh, you know, some sort of counseling or whatever the homework assignment is that you, you provide that may just lead them down that road and plant that seed a little bit.

Um, so that they now can feel a little bit more comfortable that this is going to be the thing that’s going to help me because maybe that little homework assignment that you gave was just enough to give them a taste. [00:58:00] And now they go. to their therapist in their neck of the woods and that that person is able to now Harvest that, you know, whatever that seed had been planted in and do something, you know, beneficial for those people.

And, and you’re able to reach far more people with a podcast than you can one on one, you know, individually, you know, I’d never be able to talk to Every single person who’s listened to my podcast individually and speak with every single one of them. It’d just be so time consuming, but being able to put this out there in, in that kind of format where, where everyone can listen to it.

It’s just, just incredible. So, um, before we wrap up, uh, this episode, uh, can you let people know where they can go to, uh, find out more about you, your books, your podcasts, and, and the services that you offer?

Healey Ikerd: uh, yeah, um, my website is written by Healy. com, there I have, Like a ton of resources, free resources for people who are interested in [00:59:00] certain topics. Um, you can learn all about me, uh, the books that I have written, um, what else is there? Yeah, some spiritual resources. So there’s all sorts of things. If they’re interested, if they’re in Arkansas and want counseling, um, my website for that is HopeLifeCounseling.

com. So, but they have to be in Arkansas. I could do online if they’re in northwest Arkansas. Obviously they can, um, see me there.

Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. And. Again, that’s just another thing that I think has, has really improved the mental health, uh, field is the ability to do that virtual, uh, counseling, um, understanding that you got to be in the same, uh, you know, state a lot of times, you know, same geographic region, um, you know, for licensing purposes and, and, and that type of thing, understand that, but, um, for, you know, you were, you were saying this [01:00:00] earlier, for people who, you know, Don’t want other people to know that they’re going to see a therapist.

Well, you can do this in your car, you know,

Healey Ikerd: right. I do lots of sessions in the car. I’m not in the car, but they

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, no, for sure. And so like you’re by yourself and nobody can hear you or, you know, they don’t know what you’re doing. You could just be on on the phone with your plumber for all they know. And you know, that that’s, You know, all that you really need to, you know, worry about.

And so you can, you can do this on your own, uh, you know, not having to physically be in the same location. You can use that virtual. And I’ve used virtual, um, and it’s, it’s worked great, um, for, for many different sessions that I’ve done. And, you know, honestly, I think it’s, it’s just a, uh, powerful tool. So it’s great that you have that option.

Um, and so I will have those links that you mentioned in the show notes for the listeners to check out and, you know, hopefully they, [01:01:00] they, uh, get some great information from your podcast, from your books, um, and, uh, possibly even if they’re in, in your, area, also the counseling services as well, if that’s what they’re looking for.

But I do want to thank you for taking the time to come on the show, um, sharing your, your insights, your expertise, and, uh, you know, the different resources that you shared with us. Um, and I, I, I think the, uh, biblical principles that you incorporate into the, the practices are really beneficial for those who are, you know, of a religious, uh, you know, coming from a religious background, uh, and, and helping to promote mental health, uh, and their, um, their overall wellness, uh, spiritual, mental, you know, all the, these, uh, these different things all come into play.

And I think it’s really important. So thank you for all the work that you do and thank you for taking the time to come on.

Healey Ikerd: Thank you for having me so much.