Episode 477 Meridee Hlokoff Veteran Addiction Recovery Without Meds Transcript

This transcript is from episode 477 with guest Meridee Hlokoff.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Quitting a habit takes more than willpower. It requires rewiring your brain to break free from destructive cycles. Whether it’s smoking, drinking, or harder addictions, especially for veterans dealing with service related stress, PTSD, [00:00:15] anxiety. But what if there was a way to stop the cravings at the source?

A method to break free from addiction without sheer determination alone. Today, we’re going to be talking with Meridee Hlokoff, an addiction specialist who helps [00:00:30] people including veterans overcome their struggles through cold laser therapy. This approach could be the breakthrough that you’ve been looking for.

So stick around because this conversation might just change the way that you think about addiction recovery. [00:00:45] And if you want more conversations like this, Head on over to driveonpodcast. com slash subscribe. You’ll get my favorite five Drive On Podcast episodes sent straight to your inbox and you’ll receive [00:01:00] weekly updates whenever new episodes are released.

So head on over again to driveonpodcast. com slash subscribe to sign up. Now let’s get into today’s episode.

Meridee, welcome to the show. I’m really glad to have you here.

Meridee Hlokoff: [00:01:15] Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Um, tell us a little bit more about laser quit therapies and kind of where the idea came from, how, how it, uh, came to be, and, uh, you know, what, what [00:01:30] exactly is cold laser therapy for folks who maybe aren’t familiar with it?

Meridee Hlokoff: So let’s start with, uh, what cold laser therapy is first, and then we’ll get into kind of how I got into it. So cold laser therapy is actually low [00:01:45] level radiation therapy, um, combined with led light. So everyone is doing this new red light therapy. It’s not new. It’s been around for a while. Um, and a lot of people will freak out when I say low level radiation, but low level [00:02:00] radiation is completely safe.

What we are doing is combining the two and putting them into like a very directed, um, laser and that laser is then used on various acupuncture, um, [00:02:15] Acupressure points to use your body’s energies to create the outcome that we’re looking for. So basically what it’s doing is we are using the body to heal itself by tricking it into thinking [00:02:30] it’s already got the fix.

So, um, the way that I ended up in this situation, um, I was a smoker. I had tried everything to quit smoking and nothing worked. And. I went and [00:02:45] had a cold laser therapy session. One of my friends had recommended it and it was amazing. I drove home for three hours, didn’t think about smoking once, but in the time that I was driving home and not thinking about it, I was still reaching for the cigarette. [00:03:00] So my body’s habits were still very much doing the things, but I wasn’t even aware that it was doing it. So it tricked my brain into thinking that I had already had the fix and I no longer needed it. I had zero cravings. The [00:03:15] occasional thought and even the occasional thought was very minimal and as I would Think of cigarette halfway through the word, my brain would shut it off.

It was just such an incredible experience. And then I stayed quit for about five years, had a [00:03:30] party, everybody was smoking. And so I had one puff that sort of led me back down the road, just like a cocaine addict. They can’t have just one line. And so I ended up going back down a road I shouldn’t have gone down.

But the whole while, the whole [00:03:45] time, it was only about three weeks cause it made me feel so terrible. Um, I literally had already made the decision I was going to go do this treatment again. And when I went and did the treatment, I actually told the lady, I want to buy the training and I want to do this for a living.[00:04:00]

And she was 77 and was like, I’m retiring anyways. No problem. Take it. So I purchased the training and then realized like there’s so much more to this than just the training. Small amount of training that this lady did with me. [00:04:15] And so I spent the first five years of my business really like experimenting on people, like with their permission, of course, but I would be like, can I try something different with you?

I want to see what works better. So it was like one [00:04:30] treatment or another. Once we figured out that, you know, the second way I was doing it worked better. It was okay. Can I do it a different way or a different laser? And so I just kept trying all these things. And you’ll see statistics with cold laser therapy that say [00:04:45] that we have 99 percent success rates.

The day of treatment. I would say that that’s probably a very true statement, but very quickly that drops to 85%. And for me, 85 [00:05:00] percent is one of those things that’s attainable if I don’t even try. So being an overachiever, I was like, I gotta be able to do better than 85%. And so I started creating a program.

That actually was able to work and has created 95 percent [00:05:15] success rates in people who follow the program. And then I kind of evolved from there into a friend of mine saying like, if you can help people with smoking, I’m sure you can help with addictions. And she said, my daughter and her boyfriend are addicted to heroin.[00:05:30]

And I was like, I don’t know if I can help you, but let me try because the science behind addiction is the same. We actually were able to get them to stop completely. Um, we had to use different methods than our standard smoking [00:05:45] treatment, but we were able to find incredible success with them. And then that kind of became my passion and where I really wanted to put my energy.

And so for the last three years or so, I’ve really focused on helping heavier addictions. So, [00:06:00] um, we’re obviously help people with their quit smoking, but we also do, um, alcohol. Heroin, cocaine, methamphetamines. We’ve helped a few people get off of suboxone and methadone, you know, [00:06:15] like the things that really help.

And the way that we’re doing this is truly by digging into getting their body and brain to think that they’ve already got the fix.

Scott DeLuzio: hmm.

Meridee Hlokoff: So it’s a really interesting program that we’re [00:06:30] working with.

Scott DeLuzio: It does sound interesting because the brain is so powerful that if you can trick it to say, I’ve already done this, I don’t need to do it again. Now, [00:06:45] one question I, one question, there’s many questions that are coming up and I’m sure we’re going to, we’re going to dive into all of these. And I’m sure some of the listeners probably are having a few of these same questions as well.

And hopefully, um, I do a good job and cover some of these things, but, [00:07:00] um, You mentioned that the, um, the cold laser therapy is using the acupressure, you know, acupuncture kind of, uh, points that, that you might use. [00:07:15] Is there a difference between like acupuncture and cold laser therapy? And I’m asking this question coming from a position of zero knowledge on, on this, uh, subject.

So it may seem like a [00:07:30] simple question to you, but I, you know, just out of curiosity, um, you know, what’s the difference between, you know, having, you know, a thousand needles in your back versus using, uh, you know, something like the cold laser therapy.

Meridee Hlokoff: So basically like [00:07:45] the idea is the same and the purpose of what we’re doing is the same. We’re trying to get your body to fix itself and we’re giving you an instruction to do so. Now, that being said, I’m not a fan of acupuncture because I don’t enjoy the needle and they say it’s not supposed to hurt, but it [00:08:00] hurts.

And then on top of it, you have to stay there with that needle uncomfortably under your skin. For a period of time, typically they start the session and when they leave, you’re left for 30 to 40 minutes with these needles in your body, which is uncomfortable. [00:08:15] Um, with what we do, there is no pain. First of all, the other way I would describe it is this.

Imagine that there is an energy meridian that runs right through the center of your finger. And if I take a needle and [00:08:30] just put some pressure or pierce a spot anywhere on this to trigger that. meridian. When I do so, I actually am just putting enough pressure to stimulate the energy meridian. Whereas when [00:08:45] I put the laser on the same spot, it goes all the way through and you can see it on the other side of my finger.

So I’m actually penetrating all the way through instead of just initiating it. So we see a lot more energy movement in that spot [00:09:00] by using cold laser therapy.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay, that does make sense, because you get that deeper penetration to, you know, whatever that spot is that you might be working with, um, and you’re right, I’ve gone through acupuncture [00:09:15] treatment before, and, um, it’s, and I, it’s not, and I am not a fan of needles, like at all, and, um, I just have an issue with them.[00:09:30]

Eventually after enough treatments, I got used to the needles and it wasn’t that bad. Um, but every once in a while, you know, one of the, the needles would go in and it’s like, that maybe didn’t quite go in quite the right way. And it, it kind of [00:09:45] hurts. Um, and it was supposed to be, you know, for pain management.

So

Meridee Hlokoff: Well, and the interesting thing about that is when they do it, the, a lot of times, if it feels really uncomfortable in that spot, [00:10:00] that’s actually a good thing in so many ways, because when it’s that uncomfortable, it means that it’s going to do its job. But

Scott DeLuzio: right.

Meridee Hlokoff: then there’s my side of it where I just don’t want to be in pain.

I was in pain for 27 years of my life. I don’t want to have to [00:10:15] suffer anymore. And I minimize the things that are going to bring suffering. And if I can do cold laser therapy and get similar or better outcomes. That’s what I’m going to do. And so acupuncture does actually have treatments for [00:10:30] addictions, but, and for quitting smoking, my dad used it, I’m going to say 25, 30 years ago, and it worked for him.

That being said, the people I know who have had acupuncture versus cold laser therapy found a significantly better [00:10:45] outcome with cold laser therapy.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I was gonna ask, like, the, uh, you know, take, take two people who have, you know, similar addiction for similar length of time and, and, Let’s just say all else being equal, [00:11:00] they’re going in to, you know, one’s going into an acupuncture, acupuncture treatment for that addiction. Another one’s going into the cold laser therapy.

Which one, like, as a percentage chance, like, which one has a greater chance of being successful long term with the, uh, the [00:11:15] recovery after that addiction?

Meridee Hlokoff: I would say, uh, cold laser therapy is therapy for sure. I am obviously going to be biased on this, but, um, the results are a lot quicker. The endorphin release is a lot [00:11:30] higher, um, due to the fact that we’re able to stimulate that energy a lot, a lot deeper, a lot, um, more intensely than just a needle. Now, if you were to have that electrode, um, [00:11:45] done, which Is where they like put the acupuncture needle is in and then attach it to something electric that then pulses, you’re probably going to get a significantly better result than straight up acupuncture.

But I don’t [00:12:00] know if even that would match up to what the Cold Laser Therapy can do. And one of the things that I’m in the process of doing actually is the science behind what I’m saying. So we have a company who has agreed to partner with us for us to do, um, [00:12:15] brain scans. To prove that we changed the markers in the addiction with what we’re doing.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure, sure. Well, another thing that you mentioned, too, that I wanted to bring up was [00:12:30] the, um, the high success rate, like 90, I think you said 99 percent success rate after the first treatment, um, which then may drop down, uh, you know, after a period of time. Uh, [00:12:45] what is that period of time, you know, going from 99 to whatever, 85, I think is the number that you said.

What is, what was that time period? And, um, what are ways that, cause you, you being the overachiever that you said you were, right? You [00:13:00] said, uh, you know, you, you were, you know, Not satisfied with that 85 and you’re, you’re looking for something higher. Um, and so what does that time period between that drop and what have you done to help improve that, that, uh, success [00:13:15] rate?

Meridee Hlokoff: So essentially, um, the overall success that, that is stated is usually after an eight week period. So even at eight weeks, they say we have 85 percent [00:13:30] success rates. Now, what happens and the science that. I’ve studied shows that your endorphins release for about eight weeks and they peak at about eight weeks and then they start to go back down and they crash for the next eight weeks.

So by week [00:13:45] 16, if you’ve only had one treatment with us, your endorphins are back to where they were. Before you saw us or at a normal ish level. This is where most people will start smoking again, which is why the studies only show 85 percent [00:14:00] success rates by week eight, because we go from 99 down to 85 because the endorphins are releasing, but life is also fighting the endorphins.

So there’s a lot of up and down happening. Um, and with what I do is I retreat. [00:14:15] Every, every six to eight weeks to maintain the heightened endorphins. So it’s not necessarily like this special thing that I’m doing. It’s just that I found that if I can get your brain to start creating a new level of normal in itself, [00:14:30] the crash doesn’t hit the way that it would before.

So my success rates of 95 percent were based on one year after they quit smoking.

Scott DeLuzio: Got it. Okay. Well, and that’s still good because a year later you want to have [00:14:45] that, you know, higher success rate, um, you know, 85 percent after the eight weeks is okay, obviously, but, uh, you know, it’s better than zero, right?

Meridee Hlokoff: It is. And I

Scott DeLuzio: it’s obviously a good thing,

Meridee Hlokoff: it is, it is, but I found [00:15:00] that, you know, if I didn’t retreat people and I followed up with them at one year, we were well below 50 percent success

Scott DeLuzio: yeah,

Meridee Hlokoff: that I had now been seeing people again around six to nine months.[00:15:15]

Scott DeLuzio: And so the way I’m understanding it is it sounds like what. Your, your treatment and the way your program works is it’s kind of more like rolling hills versus a roller coaster where it’s like a steep drop of those endorphins [00:15:30] after, uh, after a period of time. You, with the retreating, you kind of keep it more like gentle rolling hills,

Meridee Hlokoff: and even that we keep it more heightened. So yeah, it’s a lot more evenly spaced out. Um, [00:15:45] but again, like life is kicking in. So foods you eat affect your endorphins, uh, stresses in your life are going to affect your endorphins. All these different things really impact. Your endorphin levels.

And if I’m able to keep you, that’s why it’s between six and [00:16:00] eight weeks is before it pikes peaks, if I can treat you again to get you to heighten a little bit more and teach your brain that this is where I want you to stay. It may not crash. And so that’s the science that I’m working on right now, [00:16:15] um, with these brain scanners is to prove that we’re keeping you heightened, which is helping your brain to recover.

Because one of the big things with any addiction that we have is that you’ve been releasing these endorphins at such a high level that. Your brain [00:16:30] can’t recover from that, especially with any heavy addiction. So with heavy addictions, their brain is unable to recover for 12 to 18 months, 14 to 18 months after they stopped their addiction. But in that 14 to 18 months, [00:16:45] they need to stay sober and they’re supposed to be dealing with their demons at the same time. And when I say demons, I mean the things that initiated the use of drugs or alcohol in the first place. The thing we’re numbing ourselves from is the thing we need to deal with in order to stay sober.

But if [00:17:00] your chemicals in your brain are not regulated and they are not making you feel normal, now you have to suffer while you’re suffering. And that doesn’t lead to success in an average person. So with us, we [00:17:15] regulate your brain and teach it. We get it to where it should be as a minimum. So, we’re going to talk about how to use dopamine as a normal, if not heightened above that so that you feel like, you know, motivation, power.

These are emotions that come and go, but if [00:17:30] we can help your brain to create that and keep it heightened using your own dopamine, we’re able to get you on a, at a place where you’re able to actually move forward in your healing, which prevents you from going back to the drugs.[00:17:45]

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And yeah, so, so that way you’re, you’re, like you said, you have that motivation and, and sustain motivation, right? You may go in saying, you know, I need to, to kick this habit, you know, whatever, or addiction, whatever it is [00:18:00] that you’re struggling with. But over time, it’s hard to keep that motivation on your own, perhaps.

And so when you, uh, get that release of endorphins again through this, this type of [00:18:15] therapy. Um, it, it allows you to keep up that motivation and not go back to the easy quick fix of grabbing another cigarette or the alcohol or the harder drugs or any of those types of things. [00:18:30] Um, because you know, let’s face it, that that’s an easy fix for that, those types of things, but long term it ends up.

causing more problems, and it’s way more detrimental to your overall [00:18:45] well being and your overall health,

Meridee Hlokoff: one of the things that we also see is what we call dry drunking. So you’ll see somebody who gets sober, but they’re still doing all the behaviors that they did when they were an alcoholic or a drug addict. [00:19:00] And one of those, one of the ways that they’ll replace that and look for something different is they’ll eat sugar.

Because sugar, you’ll see like they’re candy fiends. And the reason for that is because of the fact that they can’t help themselves. They need that dopamine [00:19:15] hit. They And now their dopamine levels are, they’ve been hit so hard that they’ve crashed so low that they feel low. You know what it’s like to have that dopamine hit where you feel so good and you’re so excited and good things are happening.

And then [00:19:30] there’s the opposite side of that, where you feel so low, you’ve lost someone. Um, these people feel like they’ve lost, A lot more than someone because they’re losing their best friend. They’re losing their coping mechanism. They’re losing a lot. And now the [00:19:45] effect that it had had on their brain is now disappearing.

And so they no longer have any motivation. They no longer have any drive. You know, they say women are crazy because our emotions get the best of us at, you know, [00:20:00] that time of the month. But the catch is, is imagine being an addict. Because if my hormones. change just a little bit when it’s that time of the month for me.

And addicts, hormones and endorphins have shifted so [00:20:15] heavily that they are unable to function at all. They don’t have rational thinking. They don’t have motivation. They don’t have drive. They do cause they want to sober up, but they, they lose it very quickly because motivation is a feeling, which means it comes and it goes. It is [00:20:30] not something that sticks with you. Consistency and discipline is something that you build. Those are habits. And with our treatments, people are able to build this consistency and they don’t need to dry drunk because I’ve taught their brain that they don’t need [00:20:45] anything else. a lot of my clients, you know, they’ll stop using and then they’ll be like, Oh, I noticed I’m drinking a lot more pop.

And I’m like, you have to stop. You have to let our treatment do its job. And when you’re drinking the pop, [00:21:00] it’s actually the sugar that you’re after. And then, you know, we give them their next treatment and they’ll eliminate that as well. And You know, like I’ve had tons of people who quit smoking and they’re like, Oh, I didn’t even realize I had a pop addiction or, Oh, I didn’t even realize I had a candy addiction or the [00:21:15] opposite side of it, where people quit smoking and be like, Oh, I’ve gone to eating.

I’m like, this is all endorphin related. So there are healthier ways for us to do this than for you to be eating chocolate and putting on 40 pounds because you quit smoking. Form

Scott DeLuzio: And I would imagine it’s similar, [00:21:30] uh, and I could be wrong, so, you know, obviously correct me if I’m wrong, but it would be similar for other things that are not Not necessarily substances that you’re putting in your body, including food, you know, sodas, things like that, that, that you might be putting in your, in your body, but, uh, it could be, you know, people [00:21:45] with a gambling addiction or, um, you know, shopping or, you know, uh, you know, pornography or, you know, any of these

Meridee Hlokoff: media.

Scott DeLuzio: social media.

Sure. Yeah. Because those are all, uh, from my understanding anyways, that they’re all, uh, an [00:22:00] addiction of sorts. And. They affect the brain similarly to other things that you might be addicted to, and it may not seem as detrimental, uh, right, because you, it’s not, you know, hard drugs, um, you know, I, [00:22:15] but it doesn’t mean that it’s still not having an effect on you, right?

Yeah, and so would this type of therapy also be

Meridee Hlokoff: This works for every addiction. Um, it also helps with, you know, bad habits [00:22:30] because we create bad habits. Now, that being said, it’s not just the treatment. We also offer coaching that goes along with it because if you don’t heal the real problem, because the addiction isn’t the problem, the addiction is the solution.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Meridee Hlokoff: [00:22:45] So if we don’t heal the problem, they’re gonna go back to that solution. So we offer coaching for people to work through some trauma and work through their healing so that they can also then become fully healed. So they can actually become [00:23:00] clean and stay clean and the cool thing about what we offer as well I know this is a lot of veterans and stuff like that and they have a lot of addictions because of their PTSD Because of their depression because of their anxieties this treatment works [00:23:15] specifically And there’s different ways we do these treatments, different levels, that type of thing.

Um, but we also have a treatment that works with PTSD, with stress, with depression, with anxiety, with all of these things that create [00:23:30] the additional addictions. So, when you come in and have an addictions treatment, one of the side effects is that you’re getting a quitting smoking treatment, you are getting a, um, stress treatment, you are getting a pain treatment, you’re getting a PTSD treatment.

[00:23:45] You are getting all of the other things because of the effects it’s having on your brain.

Scott DeLuzio: Got it. And that is, uh, obviously one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show is to talk about these, these types of things, because, [00:24:00] um, like, like you said before, that the thing that you’re addicted to, whatever it is, you know, some substance abuse, you know, it could be, you know, gambling or, you know, any of any number of different things.

It’s that, it’s that [00:24:15] solution that you’re seeking because it made you feel good. It made you, it distracted you from the intrusive thoughts that you’re having and all of those things. And it’s, that’s the thing that you, you go to because it, well, hell it worked once, so why [00:24:30] not, why not do it again? Right.

And, and so we, we go back to the thing that we find has helped us. Unfortunately, those things have other negative [00:24:45] detrimental effects on us, or on our loved ones, on people around us, right?

Meridee Hlokoff: Yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: Our jobs, our,

Meridee Hlokoff: our financial. Yes.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, all of those things, right? You know, especially, especially things like, you know, gambling, where you just, you’re [00:25:00] gonna bet the house away, and now, now what?

You know, that, that’s not gonna help anything, right? And, so, these are, are, are the things that we’re Ultimately wanting to address is what’s [00:25:15] that underlying cause, you know, because if you didn’t have that underlying cause, whether it’s a PTSD or some other issue that you have going on, depression, things like that.

Um, I, I would imagine, and again, correct me if I’m wrong, [00:25:30] I would imagine that the addictive nature of whatever that thing is that you latched onto probably wouldn’t, It doesn’t sink its teeth in quite as, as deep, right? Um, you, you may have tried that drug, but then like, no, no, [00:25:45] that’s not for me. Or you may have, you know, gone gambling, but then been able to walk away and not, you know, like you can go to the casino and you can gamble in and of itself isn’t a problem.

That’s when you let it get out of control. Right. And, and, but, [00:26:00] but when you’re trying to replace that. negative, negative thing that you have going on inside of you. It’s something else. Um, that’s when I think anyways, that it kind of latches on.

Meridee Hlokoff: I agree. One of the things that [00:26:15] I found is a lot of us have this thing where we like when we find something that makes us feel good. We, none of us want to feel bad and it’s actually proven in science. We all have this mindset [00:26:30] that it’s not going to happen to me. That’s one of the biggest things that we all have.

Well, I’m going to be the exception to the rule. And

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Meridee Hlokoff: I will tell you from experience, I’m one of those people. I’m like, Oh, I shouldn’t have to follow the law of how fast I can [00:26:45] drive. I have extra special experience. You know what I mean? Like we all have our, our, where it’s not going to happen to us. And it is happening to you and it can very quickly happen to you.

Now, that being said, for me, some of [00:27:00] us do have a far more chemically imbalanced brain that addiction is just, you’re more susceptible to. And then there’s some of us who don’t, I don’t, as soon as I take opiates, I’ve had surgeries and when I’ve had to take the opiates by about the third [00:27:15] day, I’m like, get me off these things.

I can’t stand the way I feel. And yet other people immediately are addicted. They can’t get away from it. That’s the sensation they want. So it really depends on each person and what they’re taking. [00:27:30] Right? So, and it depends on your brain. It depends on the experiences you’ve had in your childhood. It, it depends on so many factors that we need to kind of In it also integrate [00:27:45] into our healing that a lot of us aren’t.

And I feel that this is, you know, we do need to have something invested in getting sober. And typically, you know, like somebody who say, for example, a smoker. Yeah. They’re [00:28:00] like, yeah, I don’t want to die, but also I’m the exception. Whereas, you know, someone who’s an alcoholic is like, I’m dying. It’s affecting my family.

My kids hate me. You know, like I can’t afford to live anymore because I need to drink all the [00:28:15] time. Like there’s a significantly heavier weight on certain things versus, you know, quitting smoking. Because of course, again, I’m going to be the exception. I won’t get cancer.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah. And, and, and then it doesn’t help that [00:28:30] you might hear the stories of other people, like maybe this guy who. has been smoking since he’s 12 and he lived to a hundred and he’s like well that i’ll be that person like that you know clearly it’s it’s not going to be me [00:28:45] because somebody else was able to do it why couldn’t i do it right but meanwhile you’re you’re putting yourself into that early grave you’re going to be dead by the time you’re 65 and

Meridee Hlokoff: and for me, who wants to die from cancer in that way? Like, if I can prevent, like, there’s so many things that, let’s just be real, the world is going to kill you [00:29:00] and we’re all going to die. Like, there is no preventing that. But how I live on this earth and how I die does matter to me. I don’t want to die, you know, chemo.

Not something I would want to have to go through. [00:29:15] You know, I don’t want to experience certain things. And so I make choices so that I don’t have to experience those things. That doesn’t mean I’m perfect. That being said, I haven’t had a drink of alcohol in 15 years and not because I had a problem.

Because I [00:29:30] don’t have an addictive personality. I don’t enjoy the way alcohol affects me. I, it’s the same as smoking. When I did start smoking again, I felt so awful. You know, I, I wanted to sleep all the time. I had no energy. I didn’t go to the gym. I [00:29:45] did like nothing. Alcohol, same type of thing for me. It’s a class one, we’re doing these two things are class one carcinogens, which means they are a number one cause of cancer in your body.

Now we all have the cancer [00:30:00] in our mitochondria. It’s whether your mitochondria deforms because of the things you’re putting into it that determines whether you’re getting cancer or not. And even that now there’s this really interesting statistic for people who are like, Oh, well, I only drink [00:30:15] on weekends. I have a secret for you guys. If you only drink on weekends, it actually takes eight days for your brain to recover from you drinking. So if you drink on Friday night and you drink again the next Friday, [00:30:30] your brain hasn’t even had a chance to recover. Now, if

Scott DeLuzio: From, from the last

Meridee Hlokoff: exactly, so if you’re not going to wait, because I told you this, next weekend it’ll be Saturday, great you gave yourself the eight days.

But it has just recovered and now you’re going to kick it back in. And what, you’re going to wait until Sunday, [00:30:45] the next week, or the Monday. If you have an occasional drink, even the occasional drink, and I mean, once every three months, you have a glass of wine, it will still have an impact on your body.

And if you’re not allowing [00:31:00] your brain to recover because you drink every weekend, you’re going to create an issue with the chemicals in your brain. You’re also putting a class one carcinogen into your body voluntarily. Every week, and now people are like, well, it’s my way [00:31:15] to escape, or it’s my decrease from stress.

Well, actually the opposite is happening. You have dopamine releasing immediately, but then within. Within two hours, your body is trying to fight everything off. If you’ve eaten, and now I know a lot of [00:31:30] people who, you know, they get drunk and then they throw up and then they’re like, why am I still throwing something up?

I ate eight hours ago. Because when you put alcohol into your body, your body focuses on getting rid of this toxin, ethanol that you have just put into your body and all the [00:31:45] rest of your system shut down. So your digestive system goes on pause and is like, this isn’t important. Getting rid of this ethanol out of my system is.

So all of your systems start to shut down because you’re putting a toxin in your body. And like I said, if it [00:32:00] takes eight days for me to recover from one night of drinking, and that can be two glasses of wine, one night of drinking, your brain still has not recovered eight days later, which means tell me when you show up as your best self in life, if you’re drinking every weekend.[00:32:15]

Scott DeLuzio: That’s a good point. Um, I hadn’t even considered that, uh, you know, how long it takes for the alcohol to, or the effect the alcohol has on your brain to kind of [00:32:30] normalize and stabilize itself. Um, but you’re right. You know, if it’s, if it’s one drink a week or, you know, a couple of drinks a week, um, yeah, you’re, you’re, Not really giving your brain that, that opportunity [00:32:45] to, uh, recover.

And, and then long term, you know, you’re also, like you said, you’re putting a carcinogen, uh, in your body on a regular basis voluntarily. And [00:33:00] that just doesn’t sound like it makes a whole lot of

Meridee Hlokoff: this stigma around people who don’t drink too. Cause I, you know, I’ll go to a party and everyone’s drinking and they’re like, you want a drink? I’m like, no. And then it’s like, well, why are you an alcoholic? And I’m like, actually, no, but [00:33:15] I’m not sitting here going, you’re not going to do heroin tonight.

Well, that seems silly. Like, sorry, but

Scott DeLuzio: Everybody else is doing

Meridee Hlokoff: yeah. And the mindset around it just kind of blows my mind, but. You are changing the chemical and physiological [00:33:30] makeup of your brain, the more you use alcohol, whether it’s every weekend or every day. You are changing the chemical makeup of your brain. And then not just that, but for me, it really came down to, like my kids, are 22 and 21 [00:33:45] and they have never seen me drunk. Never. And we went on a, I took them, um, on a trip and they had a few drinks. I’m not telling them what to do. And they were like, we know you drank when you were in your [00:34:00] twenties. I’m like, I’ve drank maybe 25 times in my entire life. But my friend said, well, let’s you and me get drunk tonight. And my son was so taken back.

He was like, no. And I was like, excuse me. And he’s like, you’re not drinking tonight. And [00:34:15] I was like, no, I’m not, but that’s by my choice.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Meridee Hlokoff: what is this that you could sit here and drink, but you don’t want me to? And he’s like, I’ve never seen you drunk. I don’t even know what that would look like. And both of my kids, they’re not regular drinkers.

My daughter drinks a little bit more [00:34:30] than my son, but my son’s like a once every six months kind of drinker. And even then he’ll go out with his friends and be totally sober. And what you live is what your children are going to be. It doesn’t matter what you say to them. They’re going to do what they see you do.

So [00:34:45] my kids don’t drink a ton because they’ve never seen me drunk. And so I always ask my friends and my clients, what do you want to set as an example for your kids? Because you drinking every weekend is showing your kids that you have no emotional coping [00:35:00] mechanisms and that this is the way to deal with it.

Which, you know, The effects on your body are the complete opposite of the outcome that you’re looking for.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s a great point because if, and you’re right, kids are like sponges. They, they absorb [00:35:15] what’s going on around them. Um, the good and the bad. And when you have a kid who is seeing their parent use drugs all the time or get drunk all the time or. They’re [00:35:30] constantly scrolling social media all the time, you know, they’re addicted to whatever their, their thing is, is there. Yeah, they’re escaping from reality, really. Um, they’re, they’re using that those things as their [00:35:45] way to cope and way to escape from these things.

Meridee Hlokoff: we’re now putting adults out into the world, you know, that are going to do the same thing. So we’re not helping ourselves or them.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So they’re, they’re not learning. So they’re [00:36:00] learning the wrong way to deal with these things, but they’re also not learning the right way to deal with these things. And that cycle is just going to perpetuate itself where it’s just going to, you know, your kids and then their kids and then the next generation and so on and so [00:36:15] forth.

And like, is that really what we want to leave? Yeah. And so you have to sort of, you know, just, Set that, that, uh, boundary there and be like, no, this, it ends with me and [00:36:30] yeah, maybe I didn’t have the best habits, uh, you know, for the last however many years, but I’m going to do something to change it so that now these people who I do care about, I, I do want them to have, uh, you know, a good, uh, [00:36:45] positive way of coping with things.

I want them, I want them to have, uh, you know, a healthy life. I want, I want to use, want to use myself as a good example for them so that they can look at me and be like, you know, [00:37:00] I don’t need to get drunk all the time. Uh, you know, yeah, sure. If I have a drink every now and again, that that’s not the end of the world, but I don’t need to do it in excess and get totally drunk all the time.

Cause that

Meridee Hlokoff: I want to add to [00:37:15] that is that it doesn’t have to start at any specific age. I, I, you know, my kids, I was, I think my son was seven or eight when I quit drinking. Um, and it wasn’t, it’s not like I was a [00:37:30] perfect parent. I didn’t do everything, but I can tell you that because of the focus I’ve had on my own personal growth, on not drinking, on learning how to manage my own feelings, because.

You know, there’s all these jokes out there about [00:37:45] parents who are like, if you hear me screaming, don’t think that I haven’t asked them nicely five times, but the reality became, you know, I got tired of yelling at everybody and I had to do some work on myself. To [00:38:00] get there and now my children are learning new coping mechanisms.

My children are not drinking to cover up their feelings and don’t get me wrong. I, there are moments that sitting with my shit, excuse my language, [00:38:15] is not comfortable. I don’t want to sit in my feelings. I don’t want to sit in my misery. I don’t want to have to experience it. It’s really uncomfortable, but we don’t really have a choice because it’s the only way to move through it.

Because otherwise I’m just numbing it and pushing it [00:38:30] back down.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. At some point you’re going to have to deal with it. And

Meridee Hlokoff: again.

Scott DeLuzio: it’s going to surface, and it, along with all the other things that you’ve stuffed down with whatever you’ve been coping with, all those [00:38:45] things are going to surface at some point, and it’ll probably be a heck of a lot easier.

Meridee Hlokoff: didn’t deserve it.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah, and that’s not fair to them either.

But I would imagine it’s probably a lot easier to deal with the one thing in the here and [00:39:00] now while it’s still fresh in your mind and you don’t have to dig back decades to, you know, that thing that you buried, you know, when you were in high school or whatever, you know, like, and now, now you’re, You’re, uh, you know, dealing with a whole series of other issues, [00:39:15] plus that issue and, and a number of other things.

It just, it’s a lot to deal with all

Meridee Hlokoff: It becomes too much, which is how come people end up becoming alcoholics, but then to get sober and have to unpack all of that stuff, [00:39:30] Especially when your brain isn’t functioning properly is why laser quit works so well, because it lets you have a normalized brain while learning to learning new coping mechanisms, learning what your life looks like as not a drinker, learning to [00:39:45] make new friends.

Because if you, when you walk away from alcohol, you walk away from a lot of things and knowing who you are as a person is one of the major things that I find that my clients are fearful of. Well, I don’t know who I am without alcohol.

Scott DeLuzio: right. [00:40:00] Well, one of the things I tell my kids and my, my kids are younger than yours. Um, but when they have a friend and that friend might be encouraging them to do something that They know is not the right thing to [00:40:15] do, right? We’ve all been in those situations where someone’s kind of egged you on to do something.

In the back of your head you have that, you know, that angel and devil that’s sitting on your shoulder. One’s telling you that’s the right thing, the other one’s telling you no, don’t do that, you know, whatever. [00:40:30] Um, those people are, you know, are they really looking out for you? Or are they just trying to get a good laugh out of whatever that situation is that they’re trying to put you in?

And do they really have your best interests, right? And so now let’s [00:40:45] take that same mindset to the, you know, the party culture or whatever that you might be a part of where all these people are trying to encourage you. Like you were saying, you go to a party and you say you don’t drink. Oh, what’s the problem?

Are you an [00:41:00] alcoholic? And they’re trying to encourage you to do, uh You know, something that maybe you’re not comfortable with doing, um, or, you know, other people, maybe other, other things that they, um, they’re trying to get away from, and those people are just trying to drag [00:41:15] you back in, do those people really have your best interests in mind?

And not to say that you, you can’t ever be around those people, but keep an eye out for the people who are more encouraging. The people who are like, Hey, well, you know, that’s great. [00:41:30] I’m, I’m glad you’re, you’re taking these positive steps or, you know, things along those lines that, um, that you’re, you’re trying to help improve things in your life where, you know, maybe you didn’t see it as an issue before, but now you do.

And now you’re, [00:41:45] you’re, you’re trying to do something to make it better and be on the lookout for those types of people. Cause those are the people who are going to be your, your cheerleaders in your corner. Right.

Meridee Hlokoff: Yeah. I find I, I told my kids, there’s, there’s a couple of stories that I’ve told my kids that are for this purpose. And one [00:42:00] of them is what you’re talking about. We refer to as the crab effect. So if you put a bunch of crabs in a bowl and one of them starts to get out, you’ll see the other ones, pull it back down because misery loves company. [00:42:15] So if someone else is unhappy. They want to pull you down to sit with them in that misery, because being alone in that misery is uncomfortable. And so the crab effect is a real thing. As one crab starts to climb out, another crab wants to pull it back down. Because [00:42:30] it also thinks, well, maybe I can pull on this and it’ll pull me out, but it doesn’t.

So the crab effect is a very real thing, and I’m not sure that a lot of people are aware of it, but if you open your eyes to the crab effect and look around you at the people you surround yourself with, You’ll be [00:42:45] shocked at the fact that this crap effect is actually happening in your everyday life.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, or that somehow by pulling you down, that’s helping pull them up, like, but bringing you down, that’s going to propel me forward [00:43:00] somehow. But think about that analogy, which I love that. Um, you know, having those crabs in a bowl, one crab grabbing onto another one. Even in the attempt to pull itself out of that bowl, they’re both sliding right back down the side, back to the [00:43:15] bottom of the bowl.

And that’s, that’s not going to help anybody in that situation. You know, you, you’d almost rather have that cheerleader who is like,

Meridee Hlokoff: the top of the bullpull, putting their hand down, saying, Come out here, I’ll help you

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. Like let [00:43:30] that one, let that one get up there, gets on solid ground or whatever, and then then maybe reach down and try to help out and help pull you out.

Um, but without that You’re all at the bottom of the bowl. And so [00:43:45] that’s, I, you know, I love this conversation. This is the way this is going. I, you know, um, you know, talking about the, um, different aspects of addiction, um, you know, of, of any sort. And I mean, we covered a bunch of different types of [00:44:00] addiction, but, uh, you know, the cold laser therapy that you were talking about, um, it applies to any of these types of addictions.

And, and so that. is amazing too, because there, there’s just so many [00:44:15] things around us that are, well, are the crabs that are dragging us back in. Right. And it’s hard to get out of that bowl, that, that figurative bowl that you were talking about. And so having that, [00:44:30] that support there, uh, you know, in terms of, um, that, that cold laser therapy to help your brain learn how to deal without those things, I think is just a, a tremendous, uh, way to be able to.

Uh, [00:44:45] move past the addiction, uh, in, in your lives, uh, you know, for, for the listeners, right? Um, but for the listeners who are out there, who are interested in, uh, laser quit and what you guys do and, and the cold laser therapy, uh, where, where can folks go to [00:45:00] find, uh, more information about the, um, the type of stuff that you guys do?

Meridee Hlokoff: So we have a great website, um, laserquittherapy. ca, or you can also go to laserquit. net, which will [00:45:15] redirect you to our main website. Um, we are also looking for partners because I can’t reach. As many people as I would like to with only two hands. So we are licensing people to offer [00:45:30] our services within their own businesses.

So if they own a spa or, you know, they have a business that offers specific services that seem like it would be a good fit. We are partnering with the right people to [00:45:45] expand ourselves across Canada, the United States. States. Um, we actually have a location in Costa Rica in a wellness center. Um, we’re looking to partner with rehab centers as they can offer this within their program to help people really get to the place [00:46:00] that they need to be.

So I’m in the process right now of really growing the business and would love to hear from your listeners. And if someone’s interested in starting to do these things, 13 years of my life doing it. Finding all the no’s, doing all the [00:46:15] failures, and I can help prevent you from doing those things and help you help other people.

Scott DeLuzio: And that’s excellent because there’s so many communities around, uh, around the world, really, who need this type of, uh, support, types of treatment because there, there’s people [00:46:30] suffering all over the place, uh, and, and having this type of, um, this type of therapy around to help people. Push past that addiction, I think is a super great thing to have.

So I’ll have the links that you mentioned in the show [00:46:45] notes for the listeners. So definitely if anyone is inclined to, you know, want to start helping out other people, uh, reach out. Or if you’re, you know, in need of that kind of support yourself, um, you know, there may be a [00:47:00] place near you already that you might be to get some support from.

Um, or, you know, You know, I’m sure there’s, there’s other options out there where even if you had to travel, uh, to, to get to a place like that, that may be an option as well. So, um, but [00:47:15] ultimately, um, you know, this is the, the way I, I kind of structured this show is I want to provide options to people and let people know that there are things out there.

Um, there are options. Like you said, you may have tried [00:47:30] everything, uh, you know, when, in your story, you, you tried everything and nothing seemed to be working, um, doesn’t mean that nothing will work. There, there, there are options out there, so I like to try to provide as many options as I can, and hopefully, Some of those [00:47:45] stick with some of the listeners and, and they get the treatment that they need.

So, um, with that, uh, I do want to, uh, thank you for coming on the show and sharing, uh, what it is that you do and for the work that you do because I, I think it’s really important [00:48:00] for, uh, society in general, not just on an individual basis, but society in general to be able to, um, be able to cope and recover from, uh, the addictions that people might be facing.

So thank you for all the work that you do.

Meridee Hlokoff: Well, thank you, Scott, for having me. I really appreciate [00:48:15] it.