Episode 478 Douglas Katz Veterans and the Tools That Keep Us Sharp Transcript

This transcript is from episode 478 with guest Douglas Katz.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Knives have always been a part of your life, whether it was in the field on a deployment or just something you took pride in using. But now, injuries, arthritis are just years of wear and tear make using them harder than it used to be. Now, what if there was a way to get that control back, to use a blade with confidence again?

Today’s guest, Doug Katz, is a West Point grad disabled Army veteran and an adaptive product innovator who is revolutionizing the way we use knives. His creation, the NuLu knife is helping people of all abilities cook safely and effectively. So stick around because this conversation isn’t just. About a knife.

It’s about, uh, regaining independence, dignity, and the ability to keep doing what you love. Uh, but before we dive in, head on over to Drive On Podcast dot com slash subscribe to get my top five favorite episodes sent straight to your inbox. And not only that, you’ll get updated [00:01:00] anytime a new episode is released.

So you’re always in the know. Um, let’s get into it.

Doug, I wanna welcome you to the show. Really glad to have you

Douglas Katz: Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Scott DeLuzio: it. Yeah, absolutely. So, um. Let’s start with, um, you know, maybe if you could just share a little bit about your background, your time in the military, uh, you know, that, that type of thing. Just to, you know, I always like to start it off with, with stuff like that, just to kind of give people an idea of who they’re talking to and you know, a little bit about who you are first, and then, and we’ll get, get into and, you know, kind of,

Douglas Katz: you want the origin story before the heroic stuff. Uh, so I was actually the first in the military from my family. Uh, I grew up in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And uh, you know, it’s funny, I’ve looked back on why did I go into the military, uh, and it’s hard, right? You look back, you’re a different person when you’re 18.

Uh, but it was the Reagan era, the time of Red Dawn, like all that kinda stuff, right? So, uh, you know, I think I really felt that calling. I, [00:02:00] um, wanted to be sort of in the thick of it. My first goal, I wanted to be a Marine, uh, and I had an ROTC scholarship for that. And then I had an awesome guidance counselor who basically was like, Hey, do you know about the academies?

I knew nothing about them. So, uh, I actually still was on that Marine. I wanted to, you know, go that way. I went to the Naval Academies summer session. And was lucky enough to, um, not get my appointment there from my, from my senator or congressman. They pointed me to go to West Point where I had never visited.

Uh, so my first experience at West Point, uh, was, ’cause I flew there alone actually. It was, it was kind of funny. Uh, and to this day, there’s a gentleman, my classmate, who we didn’t know each other, like, they had an area where we were all eating dinner. Then people whose parents weren’t dropping him off. And he was a guy.

I had dinner with that that night before we went in and we were both cared shitless. And, uh, I still, to this day, at every reunion we sit down and have a drink. But, so went to West Point [00:03:00] from 89 to 93. Uh, had a really great experience there. You know, I joke there’s a, there’s a way that they. Grade cadets coming in, right?

They look at your sports and your academics and your, uh, other stuff. And I was a decent candidate, but I was to the bottom of what they call a whole candidate score, right? They look and they say, here’s the 1100 people or whatever going into the class of 93, we’re likely gonna lose 30%. And if we rank ’em now, here’s the likely 30% I was square in that group that dropped out, but it, I took to it like a fish in water, right?

They, they sometimes call people gray hogs who liked the lifestyle there ’cause we all wear gray. Uh, but had a great experience there and I, it really changed me and that’s why I wanted to go into depth is it was that point to say, wow, you know, this is the right culture for me to be in. It wasn’t about, um.

And I think part of it’s athletics, right? I think athletes love the military, [00:04:00] especially Army and Marines because it feels like you’re on a team again. So I had a great experience there. Uh, went to the fourth ID afterward in an artillery role. Uh, I was an artillery officer and, and it’s funny, I, I,

Scott DeLuzio: I, uh,

Douglas Katz: again, I had a good West Point career, so I was rated high in my branch and high in my class when I graduated, which ended up being a, a disadvantage because the way it works with that, um, you pick your post, right, and you go there, but then they give the choice to the post on how you get placed.

And I got stuck at like a division level artillery role, which now I look back and say it was great back then. Didn’t love it so much. Uh, but did my five years in the artillery, uh, had a really great diverse career, which I think patterns on my civilian career because I, I. The reason I wanted to talk a little bit about how I got placed and where I got placed was it all provides a perspective, right?

The typical artillery career, you go fire support and then fire direction around the gun [00:05:00] line or vice versa. I was at like a division level then I was a fire support officer and then I was an intelligence officer. So it was a really unique artillery, uh, ’cause artillery the only one who have their own intelligence officers.

But it, it, it gave me a different view of how I look at like business now as an entrepreneur. I think more about what the enemy’s doing, right? I planned differently, so had a great career. Um, did go into the reserves, like I was ready to get out when I got out. And, um, for me, I think it was a mistake in retrospect.

I, I really should have given it a better look. But it was in the years of a down draw down, right? 90, 98 I got in, in 93, 98. Great economy draw down. Many of my classmates didn’t, didn’t. Serve their full five, but didn’t do it in a way that was, you know, cheating the taxpayer. Like the army said, do you wanna get out?

And people got out. So I did my full five and then moved, transitioned to the civilian world.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay. Okay. [00:06:00] So what kind of inspired you to do what you’re doing now? As far as, we were talking in the intro a little bit about the, uh, the knives that you create are, you know, more, uh, adaptive, uh,

Douglas Katz: You know, it’s,

Scott DeLuzio: with disabilities and that type of thing.

Douglas Katz: it’s interesting ’cause it wasn’t planned and I think that is it. It’s, it’s something that I think has been hard for me and it, I think it’s hard for a lot of military guys just sort of let things happen sometimes organically, um, and, and work from there. So I. Had always been sort of a corporate guy, mostly in the service part of, uh, like I was in lending for 25 years.

I was in the telecom industry, but I was on the marketing side, I was on the product side. Uh, I mean, I sold the product, but it wasn’t design and manufacturer. Uh, and so I never really had that in me. Right. I had convinced myself I was not mechanical. Right? When I went to West Point, every, every individual has to have the equivalent to a minor.

In engineering, if you don’t major in engineering, you [00:07:00] have to have the equivalent to a minor. I took systems engineering, which jokingly was called engineering for people who don’t like math. Um, and again, another one of my regrets because what I found when I relocated at one point was I like making things.

I like the physical process of creating something and the knife was 100% accidental and

Scott DeLuzio: I,

Douglas Katz: I. I was fortunate in that my wife knows me very well and had gotten me a knife. And it’s funny, I keep it under my desk here and it had gotten me a really nice, um, craft knife from a guy is, you know, and he, this is a guy who taught me, made this, and he, he, uh, taught a class too.

So my wife got me the class and I made a couple, four or five knives with this guy. And when we moved, one of the things was I’m like, Kim, you can have everything you want with the house. Just, I would like to [00:08:00] shop where I could set up a forge. So I started doing that and my intent was, great retirement plan, right?

Work until I don’t work anymore, and then maybe make knives and sharpen knives. I’ve learned that I’m a maker, but I’m not an artisan. Like I can make knives that people like, but I usually gift them. What I found was my problem solving and making sort of came together and for me, I. I, I was having major issues at that point.

I’ve got some tennis elbow that comes back now and again, I have some things from the military and my time playing rugby and all the, you know, you know what you, you do stuff and you know, to some degree the scars and the injuries are sort of the map of having a, a full life,

Scott DeLuzio: right. That life happens

Douglas Katz: side.

Right, right. I love to cook and I couldn’t cook. Uh, this was right before they completely rebuilt my shoulder as the doctor who was another West Point guy said, you got everything. Like, you got, you know, labrum rotator, a cuff bicep. I got everything. But before that, I was having some real [00:09:00] issues. I couldn’t swing a hammer to make a knife.

I couldn’t cook in the kitchen the same way. And I was like, and of course me, instead of going, well, I wonder if I can go on Amazon and find something. I went out in the garage and I was just kind of hanging out and the circular shape kind of kept coming to me. I’d been playing like, I made like a novelty pizza cutter one day for my wife.

Uh, and I, and it was like. Pizza slayer and it was sort of this half moon blade sort of a, a modified NULU. And I was like, well, wait a minute, why does it work? It’s a circular thing. And I started putting on the problem solving hat and that’s when this came about. And that, and the interesting part is the, is the knife is the on-ramp.

But what my partners and I, many of whom our veterans figured out was the way that society looks at disability is very, very interesting. Right. It’s sort of a binary able or disabled, but then you’ll see a disabled vet and you’re like, oh, you’re disabled. Yeah. [00:10:00] But they won’t call themselves disabled, right?

So it occurred to us, especially when we were trying to figure out the market, right? ’cause we would like to raise money and people like, ah, you know, disabled people. It’s a small market, not when you approach it. And it was funny, you’re gonna probably nod when I describe what our approach is, but it was sort of a military approach.

What we said was, wait a minute, are we looking at this the right way? Disability. Is a function of symptomatic manifestation that disallows you to do certain tasks.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Douglas Katz: So you could argue for certain tasks in the kitchen, children are disabled, their strength, dexterity, and coordination are lesser than an adult would have the ability to do it without any impairment.

So we actually are trying to approach it from a scale, uh, and we call it the ability curve that looks at things from the ability, from the, from the perspective of what’s the task condition and standards probably sounds familiar if you’ve been in the military. Right? And if you cannot [00:11:00] perform that at the highest level, then you’re disabled.

You may be degraded, but you still can’t do it at the level that somebody who isn’t is. And that’s sort of our, our, our, our, our approach to this is to say, adaptive design is smart design and most people, and, and with something like a knife. You know, I know when I, when I, when I put this up there, like this is a cool knife, right?

It’s sort of got that masculine, you know, Hey, this is something I could bid on the, the, the frontier of the west and defended myself, but, and that’s hard to break, right? People have this paradigm, this is what a knife should look like. One of the people we talked to said, I wanna feel like a chef. Well, that’s performative it, you know it, for me it’s how can I make a great meal that afterward we can have a glass of wine and drink and, and have a good meal.

And that’s what’s important. So we’re trying to kind of take that approach and we’ve got some other products that we’re approaching from that perspective. So NULU is the [00:12:00] first, hopefully in a whole portfolio of products that we’re trying to bring smart adaptive design. And it’s funny, right, because the military is great on adaption, right?

Is how do you bring technology and lighter and all this kind of stuff. But you don’t look at it the same way. Right? All of a sudden, if you’re disabled, you’re less of a person. And by approaching it and embracing an adaptive approach, I am admitting then that I am lesser than I was. Whatever. Right? I think I, I read an article once that said, after a certain age, when you look in the mirror, you, your, it surprises you ’cause in your brain, and I think it’s almost like in the matrix, right?

The, the, the where, where he has hair and in the matrix, but doesn’t, right? That’s what you expect yourself to look like. Well, people expect themselves to look at like 30 or 35. Like there’s some number where like basically your brain says, I’m not gonna deal with this anymore. think disability is the same way, right?

People look at it and they’re like, if I admit it, then I admit that [00:13:00] I’m going down a road of losing more and more things that I can do as opposed to saying, I. Uh, and there’s been a lot written about like lifespan and then life, like what your life is during that lifespan, and how we’ve been really good about extending life into our eighties, but really bad about extending quality of life into our eighties.

And that’s where we’re kind of looking is to say, anybody who’s degrading and we all go there, father time wins 100% of the time. Um, and going there in a smart way. And what we really do think is if you can get a, a big enough group of the population, especially maybe someone who gifts it to a grandparent or gifts it to, like I’m a sandwich generation person, right?

Like I’ve got elder parents and I’ve got kids who are of a, of, you know, teens up into their twenties. Um, but when my dad was alive, I, you know, if when he was living alone, I would’ve gifted this to him, right? I would’ve sent him and say, Hey, this should help you with your cooking. What we’re hearing from a lot of people is like, ah, maybe I’ll buy one for [00:14:00] myself as well.

And that’s where we think we’re onto something with. Changing the dialogue of ability, right? It shouldn’t be disability, it’s just you’re on an ability scale. That’s why we call it the ability curve. So that’s kind of where we’ve gone with it.

Scott DeLuzio: I, I like the way you frame that too, because I’m, I’m thinking about people that I know who maybe have some sort of disability, um, and there’s things that they used to be able to do when they were younger, like. All of us, as you

Douglas Katz: like, like everything.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, like anything.

Right. You know, when, when I was 18, I could do a hell of a lot more than I could do now as far as, you know, I was more flexible. I was able to, you know, run faster. I was able to lift, you know, heavier things and, and all those things because, well, I was, I was young and my body was still, you know, willing to accept the fact that I was gonna punish it.

And it’s not so much anymore, you know,

Douglas Katz: What, listen, I, you know, if you look, and it’s funny as you were talking, in my brain, I’m thinking. Cialis and vi [00:15:00] those are adaptive, right? Like ultimately you can’t do anything the same way. It’s different, it’s pharmaceutical. But boy, it’s amazing how when people value what they’re losing, how they’ll look and be like, Hey, you know what, I’m, I’m gonna make what decisions I need to, uh, I don’t think we do that in everyday life.

So, you

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you’re right. You know, I, I have, I have

Douglas Katz: And I was, by the way, I wasn’t intimating that for some reason you needed either one of those.

Scott DeLuzio: No, no, no. I, I understand.

Douglas Katz: a matter of like, wow, it just occurred to me, you know, that that’s one thing that you see on TV all the time of, Hey, I can’t do it the way I used to.

Scott DeLuzio: And people talk about it too, like, like it’s a no big thing.

Like of course I’m gonna take it like, like

Douglas Katz: Right. But then

Scott DeLuzio: you’d be crazy not to

Douglas Katz: adaptive knife. You give ’em something that looks like a clinging on war knife and you know, they’re like, oh, I don’t wanna do that. I wanna look like a chef. And it’s like, okay, well, you know.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, you know, another thing too that I, I, I was about to say is like, I have hearing loss too from, from my time in the military and. I wear hearing aids. Right. And there’s like a stigma, like people are like, oh my God, hearing aids.

Oh,

Douglas Katz: right there [00:16:00] with you, brother.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, um, you know, I got these headphones on now, so it’s like pumping right into my ears and noise canceling. So I can’t hear anything else that’s going on around me right now. So I’m, as far as hearing goes right now, I’m good. Um, because it’s, it’s pretty clear. But, um, you know, for day-to-day life, I need ’em, like days that I forget to put ’em in and like my wife or my kids or, or someone are, are talking to me.

Especially if there’s like background noise, like the television’s on or you’re in a restaurant or something like that. I, I don’t know what you guys are saying, like, are, why are you whispering? And they’re not whispering. They’re, it’s, it’s like, it’s me, you know, I’m the problem, but I wear those hearing aids so that I can do the things that I otherwise would be able to do had I not had this, this hearing loss.

Be able to carry a conversation while without getting frustrated

Douglas Katz: Well, but so I would ask you though, if you’re like, did you get yours to the va?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Douglas Katz: Okay. So they’re Bluetooth enabled.

Scott DeLuzio: Yep.

Douglas Katz: So it’s interesting, right? When all of a sudden it becomes a greater functionality. Like [00:17:00] one of mine’s charging is not charging now, so I gotta go hit the va. But for me it’s like, okay, well, you know, it’s helping me, but it’s also replacing the need for any kind of earbud or whatever, you know?

And, you know, it’s, it’s, I think it’s layering, layering features and benefit onto stuff where, you know, you, you, you embrace it more because I’m where I’m at, like when I can’t hear, it’s really funny. My brain will fill in and I’ll be like, why did you say that? My kids are like, what? So Right. It’s,

Scott DeLuzio: because you can kind of read, read the lips too, right? Like, you start to learn how to do that. It’s weird. I, I started doing that before, um, you know, I, I had the hearing aids. I, I just started reading lips and, and people were like, that’s kind of freaky. Like, like I, you’re, you’re. You shouldn’t be able to hear me.

And, and I know you can’t, but like, how did you know? Right.

Douglas Katz: Well, it’s interesting. I saw, I was listening to a podcast the other day, and it’s completely off topic, but they were talking about how your brain adjusts with everything. They were talking about [00:18:00] vision. But your brain will rewire and say, Hey, you know what? I’m not getting these, I’m not getting it this way.

So it’s kind of interesting stuff,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. And I, I actually had, so the, you’re, you’re right. The, the hearing aids I have now are blue tape tooth enabled, and they do have those extra features, but I did have an old school hearing aid too years ago when I, I got my first one.

Douglas Katz: in your ear, like

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Um, but it was, it, it was basically just like a microphone and a speaker that goes in your ear that it was that dumb technology. It didn’t have any connectivity to anything. It was just that. Right. But when I got the, the new ones, I was, I was kind of giddy. Um, you know, you know, to get ’em, because I was like, this is so cool.

It connects and you can listen to music. Or I, I could be sitting in bed, you know, like. They, they, they have a little device that connects to the television that will stream the, the sound from the television straight to your, your, uh, hearing aids. I could be in bed and my wife could be sleeping. I could have the television on, and she wouldn’t even know, you know?

Douglas Katz: You know, and what’s what’s interesting is, and, and it’s funny, as [00:19:00] you were talking about hearing aids, what flashed in my head is Apple right now. Right. Then the newest, uh, Airbus that they have. I’m an Android guy, so if I said it wrong, apologies, tell the Apple people, but they’re now making those hearing aids.

And what’s really interesting is it’s sometimes the source, I think with adaptive design and adaptive technology, because there would be old people are terrible about wearing hearing aids like you and I younger, uh, and. The not having the hearing a hearing aids represents a lessening of an experience when you’re out and about.

Where seniors, many tend to be insular already, so they can turn their TV up loud, they don’t need the hearing aids. But then you have someone like Apple that comes on the scene, right? And they’re like, Hey, we’re gonna make your Apple ecosystem hearing aids, and it’s the greatest thing ever. Right? So it’s, it’s, I think as a, as, especially now [00:20:00] when it’s all, there’s this tribalism and you don’t necessarily want your tribe to be the broken people.

Um, I am finding a lot of innovation and optimism and all of that, and I think when we’ve got all these, you know, and this is kind of getting, you know, pie in the sky, but when we’ve got all these issues, the one thing that really does unite us is I. We’re all broken. Like we’re, you know, when you hit a certain age, man, like, you know, again, and the best people are the most broken ’cause they’ve done the most.

Um, and if we can at least agree on that, I think that some of the things that are around that, anything from design to the, all the other services and stuff associated with that isn’t looked upon as extraneous. Um, because we’re all gonna be there. And, and that’s kind of, we’ve been playing around with market messaging.

That was one of ’em we batted around. That isn’t necessarily the one we’re gonna go with, but it’s the reality, right? Like, if you don’t need this tomorrow, I’ll wait because you’re gonna need it. [00:21:00] And, um, but I think it’s good. I think it’s, it’s, it’s good that there’s more people having the dialogue on this podcast.

I’ve been on a lot of others that are not specifically talking about adaptive and disability and all that kind of stuff. It’s more about, and, and unfortunately, unfortunately, I think a lot of the disability focuses on the really high, high. Visibility stuff and it should Ms. Parkinson’s, all that on the research side.

But what’s interesting is, like on arthritis, osteoarthritis, to my knowledge, there’s not much you can do with it. Your car cartilage goes, bye-bye, and that’s it. Uh, or other certain things, carpal tunnel, yes, you can get surgery and all that, but there’s really not research into saying, you know, how can we prevent it?

Design is how you prevent it, right? Repetitive stress, injuries, all those kind of things. So, you know, I I, I, I wish that there was more dialogue in, oddly enough, one of my Ms friends, one of my friends who has Ms who we were talking to, mentioned this, and it’s a brilliant, and I don’t know if it’s his, but he talked [00:22:00] about the, the great impact of small improvements and that everything doesn’t have to be a home run and you can win a game on singles.

And I loved that because at a point where we were trying to find our voice as a company, that sort of became a good. North Star. And it was a great way for us to look and say, wow, we can be the small improvement that has a major impact on somebody, and that’s good enough, right? I don’t wanna cure arthritis, but if I can make somebody able to, um, embrace a, um, low, um, inflammation diet, right?

Like they say, look, have a have a low inflammation diet. If you can’t cook, it’s pretty hard. I mean, you can spend a ton of money for specialized food delivery, but really the best way to control your diet, your weight, your, your inflammation is to cook for yourself. If you can’t wield a knife, uh, then [00:23:00] you, you have very little control over that, or a caretaker has to do it.

And I think what I learned on my caretaker time is it varies, but generally people are cared for, wanna be cared for the least possible. They would like to still feel valuable, they would still like to be able to do things, and I think that these type of things create the landscape for them to be able to do it, especially when you’re talking now about more age in place.

Um, I don’t know if anyone, any one of your viewers and listeners have have priced out elder care lately. It ain’t cheap. And if you’ve got a, a family member who is in relatively good shape, well then why not create the, the landscape where, and or the, the environment where they’re able to keep doing as much as they can.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that, that makes a ton of sense too. Why, why wouldn’t you, uh, create that sort of environment? Right. Because, um, to your [00:24:00] point, I think everybody wants to still feel like they’re 18, 19, 20 years old where they can still do everything. Right. Of course, as time goes on, there’s fewer things that, that you can do because, you know.

Life happens. Right. You, you get older, you know, you’re,

Douglas Katz: Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: wear down. Right. Um,

Douglas Katz: Well, and I think one thing I wanna add to that, if I could, is I think there’s a difference between unexpected disability, know, a, a accident, a um, diagnosis and natural, right? Like, so having been through, we, my dad lived with us, um, and then her folks moved to our area and he, he’s in the hospital now, but he lived with us for a while.

Walkers, right? Like, for some reason, having somebody use a walker, unless they’re young and they just had surgery and they’re like, ah, I’m gonna get rid of it. I think it represents another loss, right? So I think what happens with these people, [00:25:00] and I see it myself, and when I say these people, me being one of that, that that group is every time you have to make.

A change in what was, you’re more and more acknowledging the movement down that, that our lifecycle and, you know, again, I’m 54 and caretaking has really had a unique impact on my view of mortality. Right? Like, you can’t, you can’t have this degree of closeness with people who die of old age and not look and say, Hey, I’m in the same club.

And I think that, um, there’s a, trying to think of the word. There’s a very, very unhealthy view of healthy aging and a degree that you wanna always stay 35 instead of a very vibrant 54-year-old.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah.

Douglas Katz: And, you know, hopefully that will [00:26:00] change. Right. I, I did some, I, you know, I do some writing on the side and I, I wrote an article the other day about if you take the average lifespan.

Your life every year is about 1.3% of your life, which doesn’t sound like a lot, but then you’re like, wow, high school is 5%, right? Like, you start to look at these numbers. And I think when you look at it that way, it’s an argument of optimization it, right? You’re looking and you’re saying, okay. And when you get older, like I did some of the math for someone who didn’t like math and mathy these days, um, when you’re in your fifties, it’s not 1.3%.

It’s, you know, 8.2 or whatever, right? It’s a bigger number. Um, and that’s when I looked and I said, okay, if that’s that big, a much a chunk of what I got left, I better do everything that I can to make it the most exciting. You know, I, I should try and do everything I can. And if that requires [00:27:00] the help of adaptive things, then I would be stupid.

To not take advantage of those, to continue to live a pretty full life. So I, I think it’s just a really, a big change in a dialogue. And I, I think stuff with older folks is getting better. Um, I think, I think that there’s a more of an understanding about that. Even A A RP, for example, has their own accelerator and venture money that they spend on a debt.

It’s mostly tech, right? Like, I tried to get in on that and I think it’s kinda like, yeah, and I, we wanna make like all this big tech. Well, you know, that’s how that worked out. I’m just happy that people are starting to have that discussion. Um, especially when you look at our community because it’s not just aging, it’s aging that the, the, what we’re losing is accelerated by other issues that we had from serving the country.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I was gonna say, it’s, it’s accelerated aging. You know, when you’re, when you got, you got the kids who were, you know, humping a, you know, 50 pound ruck for [00:28:00] miles on end and they’re, they’re back and their knees and their hips and, you know, all these other joints are, are, are starting to bother them when, you know, they look like they’re 65 when they’re really 25.

Douglas Katz: Well, and I will say though, they got over, they, when I went to Airborne in like 91, we still ran in boots. I don’t think they do that anymore.

Scott DeLuzio: think. Oh, really?

Douglas Katz: Yeah, I think, I think I owe my, my ankle and knee disability to the army very much in terms of like, hey, well, and again, it’s adaptive, right? Like you look and you look at the army 30 years ago, Hey, we’re tough.

We’re gonna run in boots. Wait a minute, this is costing us a shit ton of money later when these guys are disabled veterans, right? Like so they adapted to say, Hey, you know what, let’s spend a lot less money and be more mission ready. Like it’s still that kind of different thinking that I think makes sense.

Scott DeLuzio: Make sense, you know, and one, one thing I I learned too about, uh, the military is, you know, so after there’s a combat death, the soldier, marine, airmen, whoever, uh, was, was killed, they, they go through, they, [00:29:00] they have a, you know, they do the autopsy and all that stuff, but they record like, where was this person injured?

Where, where they shot in the chest? Were they shot in the, the arm? Were they shot in the leg, shot in the face, shot in the, you know, wherever. And they record that data, not just for autopsy purposes. They record that data and they pass it along to the folks who do the development of all the, the body armor and things like that.

And so it, it’s, it’s a whole mindset of like, okay, well if we have a whole bunch of injuries that are coming in a certain location on the body, well maybe we need to do something to beef up the armor on that part of the body. Right? And, and that the, if you just look at the body armor from the time that you were in.

Through the time to, to now. Right. And how much that has evolved and changed over time. Um, you know, it, it’s, it’s like night and day difference between what, what you guys had and, and what they, the, the soldiers are [00:30:00] carrying around now and, and wearing now, um, ev everything from the helmets, which, you know, you had helmets back then, but they were different.

Um, you know, they’re lighter weight now.

Douglas Katz: when I first got in the army.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah,

Douglas Katz: And you know what’s funny is what’s really funny is though, it’s then when you like lose the number one thing people were bitching about when the steel pot went away was that you couldn’t cook and shave in it. Like, ’cause you can’t do that in a Kevlar helmet, right?

So, you know, things change. I think what’s interesting is we like there’s no difference between an adaptive approach and just how things improve over time. I think that what holds back is I. Money because when you say disabled, you immediately think wheelchair, right? Like, how do we show that someone’s disabled?

It’s a placard or a license plate that’s got a wheelchair, right? It’s got probably the most monumental thing that people avoid, right? Like there’s people in wheelchairs, but it’s the one thing that probably most changes your ability, your mobility [00:31:00] and things like that, right? All of a sudden a lot of stuff changes and, um, I think that it’s, it’s gotta be more a talk about, um, one the size of the market.

Like we, when we started sizing the market for, as, as a, for an example, upper extremity, and we don’t say disability again. We say weakness, coordination and dexterity issues. All the sudden stuff changes, right? So now the reason we wanted to bring children into the discussion is one, we’re we’re likely gonna be launching a.

Safe child’s version because our geometry on the knife allows better force transfer, which means a kid can use it, but we want ’em to do it safety safely. then when you start layering these different small markets where money gravitates to where the market is, right? You know, we are over a hundred million in the number of people that could benefit from this knife.

The people for whom the value proposition, [00:32:00] the use case, and the problem that we solve is relevant.

Scott DeLuzio: relevant. Mm-hmm.

Douglas Katz: The more that I think there’s that thinking instead of everything mass market, right? Like right now when you go to the events, my biggest problem when I’m trying to raise money isn’t specifically on the disabled side.

It’s tech versus everyday stuff. Nobody wants to make products. If I had a new app that, um, I. Had some wide, wide, like that’s what the money moves to. And I think my challenge, I’ve been trying to find impact investors who look and say, I get this, and oh, by the way, I get it because my arms hurt, my shoulder hurts, all this kind of stuff.

So they’re out there. But where a unicorn in the investment space usually means a company that’s gonna make a bajillion dollars. Our unicorn is an impact investor that says, this is important. I’ve seen my parents and grandparents age. I may have a disabled, you know, [00:33:00] a disabled, um, family member. I support disabled vets.

Our whole aspect with that is then, then obviously donate to nonprofits, but put your money where your mouth is and help us develop things that will create the mechanism, not just to, to, to, to give them money, but to also create the lifestyle that they should be leading. I.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And the other thing too, and, and I think part of the reason why I brought up the whole issue with like, you know, the body armor and, you know, kind of changing things over, over time is that, you know, they, they’re not making this body armor for the soldiers who are already shot. Right. They’re, they’re making it for everybody else who is, is coming forward.

So, you know, when, and when you were mentioned about how, you know, you’re making products for, for kids, it, it makes sense if you have a product that can, you know, in, in your case, a knife, right? It can cut things easier, uh, more efficiently, does not require as much force that, you know, you’re pushing down, you know, eventually, especially if you’re, you know, a professional chef or [00:34:00] something, you’re, you’re cooking often or, or even, you know, just you’re cooking for your family every night.

Um, you’re doing that day after day after day after day, time after time, and it, and it just wears down. Yeah, exactly. Why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you use something that. Reduces the likelihood that you’re gonna end up with that type of injury. At least if you are gonna end up with that type of in injury, maybe it’ll be years and years down the road as opposed to more, you know, uh, something happening, you know, more, more soon.

Um, you know what I mean? So, so

Douglas Katz: Chefs are a tough bunch. Chefs are like, it’s, it’s like, and I’ll, and I’ll put it in military terminology, they’re like the guys who like iron sights over everything else because they don’t break. Right? Like, you know, and, and I agree, right? Like, you should know how to use your irons. But like, there was a chef once, uh, a friend of mine had a chef buddy come over.

They were both chefs actually, to try out the knife. And [00:35:00] we were, we were talking and he’s, I was showing him like, well, here’s a regular knife. And I was just using it like I would, and, and this is not the appropriate knife for it, so, and he’s like, here’s how you hold a knife if you’re a chef. And I’m like, well that makes no sense.

But time and time again, chefs that I talked to say, this took me a long time to learn. I. This is proper technique and why are you messing with my proper technique? And I was like, but why do you have to learn technique to, to use something that

Scott DeLuzio: that?

Douglas Katz: should be an extension of your body, right? So it’s like, great know how to use iron sites.

It’s great when the battery dies, but gimme a red dot I wanna survive. And what we’re running to in the food service industry is a lack of thinking like the military does. And, and until you said that, I didn’t even make that connection. But the food industry, I talked to an ortho, a friend of mine, and he is like, I love butchers and, and, and chefs and food prep people because I [00:36:00] see a couple of them a week because of repetitive stress injuries.

But you would be amazed. I’ve reached out to, there’s, um. I didn’t know this until I got in the knife industry. Um, for like restaurants and stuff, many of them subscribed. They don’t own their own knives. They subscribe to a, to a, to a service that will pick up five knives and go sharpen ’em. And then they bring ’em five knives right the same day, and they’re not the same knives.

They’re just getting the same type of knife that a sharpen is ready to use, and it takes that off their plate. The degree of non-response that we’ve gotten from the culinary industry, the, you know, uh, to include like influencers and all those kind of people, um, restaurant owners, food prep, company owners, and all of those, the ones that seem to get it.

Scott DeLuzio: it

Douglas Katz: Cooking schools have been amazing. A lot of cooking schools have said, wow, we get it because we might actually increase our market share because we could have specific cooking schools. Uh, or cooking classes for people with problems, [00:37:00] right? Hey, here’s an anti-inflammatory cooking class and you’re gonna use a night, right?

So they get it because they’re looking and they’re saying, I want to grow my market share. Everybody else is tough. Now, I will say a lot of voices in the knife industry have looked and said, cool knife. We totally get it. Our other big problem is manufacturing. Um, it’s a unique knife. And the way the knife industry is, is

Scott DeLuzio: is

Douglas Katz: big automated systems to make a really particular kind of knife shape, linear.

Um, so, um, I’ve had a lot of great help from people in the knife industry who, one are great in respecting military, like they really wanna help a disabled vet. But two also are just super helpful and that industry gets it. And in fact, some of them have come up with, um, some ergonomic knives. But this is where if fails. It looks ergonomic, it looks, it looks [00:38:00] institutional. It, it, it looks so utilitarian that you’re making a unnecessary compromise in the cool factor. You know, I keep forgetting to call him out when I’m on this guy named Gordon Downey, who is amazing. He’s been my friend for a long time and we ended up on this together.

He is not military, but he works great with my military partners, um, and thinks that way is an amazing designer. And what’s super cool is he had spent his life prior working with me as a toy designer, and he’s got just an eye and my prototype versus what he has created, um, our, our, our night and day. But what keeps resonating with people, we bring it to my, one of my partners was at Shot Show.

Uh, this past week, uh, and he’s a knife industry veteran, and he’s like, people love it. They think it’s really cool. Um, it’s, it’s the design part, right? It’s the [00:39:00] design part that is, does it work? And if you put it with a bunch of other knives, is that what you’re gonna pick up? Because it’s appealing, it’s sexy, it’s got nice curves, and it’s got, you know, this, this beautiful, I like it.

I look at it like the Glock, right? The, the Glock is super utilitarian. Um, I’m a revolver guy myself, but, um, and you hear people say like, I love my, you know, Ruger Black Hawk that I’ll bring to the range, and I love the old shooting feeling, but boy, when I go, and that’s my EDCI, I’m gonna carry a Glock because it just works.

And there’s a beauty to its simplicity. The iPhone, right? Anything that you look at, there’s sort of nice curves and a beauty to it. And what we’re trying to do is also bring that to some of this design and bring a cool factor. So someone says, oh, you know what? I’m not disabled. That’s a cool knife. So that’s where we’re trying to bring that.

And I think you can do a lot with handles and things like that. And [00:40:00] our roadmap is heavily in more handle refinement and design and other uses, like a sport version, a mini version, a kid’s version.

Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. Yeah. And, and to your point, you know, for that, that look, you know, you, you look at, you know, sometimes you’ll have somebody who’s older, maybe, you know, with arthritis or, or something like that. Uh, and you know, even tying their shoes as hard as they have those, like the, the Velcro shoes, right?

That, that

Douglas Katz: Oh dude, I’m a Skechers guy. You know what? My family, my family mourned the day that I, that I started wearing Skechers. And I’m like, I don’t care. Like I like my feet not to hurt.

Scott DeLuzio: I, so that, that was actually the, the direction I was going with this. Right? So you have that, that look right. And I think you can put in your head that the Velcro shoes, that, that, uh, you know, maybe a grandparent or something like that might, might be wearing

Douglas Katz: Or, or, or by the way, or the kid, not the disabled kid. The kid who just can’t tie his shoes. Right.

Scott DeLuzio: shoes, sure.

Douglas Katz: right. Like it’s

Scott DeLuzio: So you’re, those are the two extremes. Like, they get you when you’re coming and [00:41:00] going, I guess, you know? So like, those are the two extremes of, of those types of shoes, none of them really look cool except for the, you know, maybe kid who has like the flashing lights on ’em or whatever.

And those, those might look a little cool. Um, but then Sketchers comes along and they have those easy slip on, uh, shoes and they don’t look half that either, you know, and, and so, I mean, some people hate ’em, but, you know, whatever. I don’t, I don’t care. I I wear ’em too, you know?

Douglas Katz: opinion. Question for you. Like, I’ve had people criticize my Sketchers when they’re in Crocs

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. I, I, I agree a hundred percent. I, I think Crocs are the ugliest thing on the, the face of the planet actually.

Douglas Katz: too, but you know, I’m equal opportunity

Scott DeLuzio: Your, your equal opportunity ugly. I, I, I just, I, I don’t want, I won’t go into it, um, because I know people love their, their Crocs, but I, I, I don’t like ’em. I, I don’t. Whatever I,

Douglas Katz: but you know what’s funny is, is Crocs are a great example of a hyper customizable, comfortable, right? Like it’s, you can put the things in it [00:42:00] where kids can customize it. They’re easy in and on. Like you look and you like, it was brilliant. ’cause they said this has such a good use case that people are not gonna care.

And they don’t. And what was really funny is Crocs went outta style and I, I still wore ’em. I, I’m like, I don’t care. Like at this point, you know, look at the facial era, I really don’t care. Um, but then they came back in style and they’ve been hitting hard for a while, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Right, right.

Douglas Katz: know,

Scott DeLuzio: I see people at the gym wearing them, like they, they’re on like the stair climber wearing crocs and they flip ’em into sport mode or whatever, and, and they’re, they’re, they’re wearing those. I’m like, like, you don’t have something a little safer to wear on, on these things. Like, I feel like.

Douglas Katz: like, could you super glue like an orthotic and a pair of crocs and like make super crocs? I might that, this might have to be my weekend project.

Scott DeLuzio: That I, I, I see the wheels turning. It’s awesome. But, but you know, I, all of this stuff here, so I, I think what we’re talking about the, just to boil this whole conversation down to kinda like the root of what we’re talking about here is, look, we [00:43:00] all have different levels of ability, right? Let, let’s, let’s take disability off the table right now we have different levels of ability, like you said, there’s a, a curve of, you know, you, you, I totally can do something and I’m the best in the world at it.

And there then I’ve never done this before. I don’t know what I’m doing. And there, there’s everything in between, right? And, and so. Most of us probably fall more on, you know, in the middle somewhere. But then the, like any bell curve, you’re gonna have people over on that, I can’t do this, um, for whatever reason.

Maybe I’m not strong enough. Maybe I have joint issues, maybe I have, you know, a missing limb or something like that. And I, I need something that makes it easier, um, you know, to be able to, to do that. So what, you know, like I, I, I can’t walk, you know, 20 mile round trip to go to work. If, you know, I work 20 miles, you know, 10 miles away or whatever, 20 miles round trip, I can’t do that every day.

Eventually my, [00:44:00] my, my legs, my hips, my, you know, everything is gonna start hurting. So I get in the car and I drive to work and no one looks at me like, oh my gosh, he’s using a car. What’s wrong with him? Right.

Douglas Katz: right, right.

Scott DeLuzio: It’s, it’s the same idea,

Douglas Katz: and the unfortunate thing is people just stop then. Right. They’re just like, okay, I’m not gonna do it. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, that’s, that’s like the worst thing that you can do because most of the time it’s mobility based. But the, you know, the aspect of, I think you brought something up really, really cogent about no one really cares. And I had a, I listened to a really, my wife had been a big Mel Robbins fan. Do listen in her it all, she’s amazing.

Scott DeLuzio: no. Okay.

Douglas Katz: She has this whole concept, like, let them, and it’s all this aspect of like f other people, right?

Who

Scott DeLuzio: sure.

Douglas Katz: Uh, I don’t, I listened to her. It was on a Scott Galloway podcast and I’m a big fan of his, but it’s sort of that same thing. I was like, thing at this point, like, who cares what anybody thinks about what you’re doing? [00:45:00] Because on one side they may be there themselves and then they’re gonna really feel bad.

And on the other side, somebody else might be going, oh, look into that. Right? Like, it’s, it’s super interesting and I think. It all comes down into like sort of this decency thing for me, right? And we’re talking about sort of individual decisions, but the reason people make individual decisions are ’cause of judgment or whatever. And you know, especially in the military community and stuff, you’re the sheep bull and the sheep dog and all that crap. And I look, and I think if you’re really a sheep dog, then it’s about overall protection, right? It’s not about standing there with a rifle protecting everything. It’s about protecting those who can’t.

And if the disabled community, and I would call that in my, in my definition again, anybody who can’t do a task to the conditions and standards successfully that that task is, guess [00:46:00] what? It’s all, it’s, if you’re, if you’re truly a sheep dog, that’s the, the, the, the moniker and what, what people then we should all be, and we should all be doing what we can.

To, to, to help the least, uh, or the people who are affected and that kind of thing. And I just wish that there was more understanding about that because the other part of it is the sheep dog gets old, right? And, and then, right. So it’s this, it’s this thing is we’re all in it together. Um, we are, we are as strong as we are.

We’re, we’re pretty breakable. We’re pretty fragile things. And, um, you know, I just, it’s been a very eye-opening thing to me because I would’ve counted myself very much in 20 years ago, 10 years ago, maybe even five in the, I’ll just deal with it. And as we were talking about chefs, it was really interesting.

There’s a chef who I connected with who has Parkinson’s. There were some language issues. She’s, I think, out of Mexico. But I asked her, I said, what does a chef [00:47:00] do when Parkinson’s starts to get in the way of using a knife? And she said, stop cooking. Oh, you know, and I’m like.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Douglas Katz: Wow. Like, that’s, that’s your profession.

She’s, well, you know, she, she’s well known in the culinary industry and that, that really was one of the things where I look and say, when chefs give up, we gotta figure out a way to, you know, and that this was this road. And again, it was very, it was very organic how this came about. And I think where the rally cry for us as an organization came is to say, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

We are trying to get a lot of our development ideas from the communities that would be best served. And, and our overall vision is, what we’d love to do is find a way. If someone has a great idea and you wanna see the group that is second in innovation to my privates, when I was in the Army, they were innovative and getting in trouble, but they were also super innovative and like, Hey, here’s a great field [00:48:00] solution to a problem.

Um. Is the disabled community. They, they will make things outta pool noodles and, and PPVC and all these things and that are probably marketable, right? But they don’t have the means, the relationships, the capital, and the mechanism to do it. So if when we’re successful with NULU and we really figure out the right formula, our goal is to say, what else should we be making for you folks?

Right? And you know, it’s, it, it could vary, right? Like there are so many mobility issues with simple solutions, with great impact that need to see the light of day. That won’t until we as a society starts saying, well wait a minute, we gotta figure this out. We gotta put money and resources to it. And what’s funny is I’m not even talking about grants, I’m not even talking about the government.

I’m saying this is a profitable place that you can sell. And, and the other part frankly, is there is a disability tax. Um, [00:49:00] and it’s partly, I think by design, it’s partly by structure, uh, by design. I think it’s, Hey, you know what? It’s a niche product. We can charge you more. We’re gonna do it. I don’t love that.

Structurally, it’s because it’s a niche product. It’s expensive to produce, and ultimately we have to charge you this much to stay in business.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Douglas Katz: Economy of scale works for everything. So if we start thinking this way, the economy of scale will drive down the price on things like this. And hopefully people look at say, well, wait a minute, how am I missing out on a hundred million person market?

If it’s truly that big for upper extremity issues, lower extremity, I would guarantee it’s better. And there is stuff out there that markets, well, like all the Tommy Copper stuff, right? Like all of that sells really well, but they sell like in golf and all that kind of stuff. Like we’ve gotta get better at sort of a broader brush stroke of that, uh, in, in fixing those things.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. And to your point of, you know, how the, this stuff is marketable and [00:50:00] how adaptable the, uh, uh, the disabled community is, or, or how innovative the, the disabled community is. You, you ever see the, like the tennis balls that they put on the, the end of walkers,

Douglas Katz: Yes. Oh,

Scott DeLuzio: I, I saw those in Walmart in like outside of the pharmacy, like hanging up tennis balls for walkers.

Like they already have the holes cut in that you just pop it on

Douglas Katz: Oh, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: the end of the thing. So they, they say sell this stuff now too, and it’s like, it makes sense, but

Douglas Katz: it does, and, and, and they probably have the economy scales so that it’s not more expensive than the time needed to drill a hole in a tennis ball or do whatever you gotta do. Um, so yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s shoot, there’s like shoots and, and, and, you know, daylight. And hopefully things will happen that way.

And I, and I think a lot the, the best thing that can happen is a positive impact of the gray tsunami. And the cost of care drives [00:51:00] decision making and investment and design and development to creating somewhere where they don’t need as much care. ’cause again, it’s super expensive, right? Like it’s, it, it, it, it should be a priority in asset preservation and all the other things, right?

All the other things. It’s, it’s nothing is in a closed system. Everything has impact and, and, and, and action reaction and all that. And I think a lot could be done. And, and I think it would help the people who have, who need that, Val, right? They, they want to be valued through their independence. They wanna be valued not by being taken care of, but by being relevant.

And if you can make those major impacts, then, and we, you know, we’re great with it. For disabled vets, I mean, I gotta say. Um, we’re almost too good. There’s so many nonprofits that are fighting over the same bone to try and help disabled vets. Um, but it’s good. But I think it’s great, but [00:52:00] we, we gotta go beyond that, right?

Not every disabled person is, is a vet, but they all have value in our society.

Scott DeLuzio: absolutely. A hundred percent. Uh, where can people go to, uh, find out more about your, your knives and the, the types of products that you guys are gonna be developing?

Douglas Katz: the best place would be if you type in NULU knives, you’ll find a ton of stuff in a search. Um, I have a link tree. I’m also publishing some stuff on Substack. The Substack stuff isn’t specifically about the knife, but a lot of the stuff I’m writing about this community is there as well as some of the white papers.

Um, actually the white papers on my link tree, but if, if they do a search, if I’m on LinkedIn, um, then it’s got all of that information they can go there. Um, our site. At the time when this comes out, we’ll be up and running. We’re expecting our first knives to meet our Kickstarter demand in March. Uh, we got caught up in the tariff BS and Chinese New Year, which pushed our delivery of, um, our hard launch out till about [00:53:00] April, which is when, so they can go to our site about when this comes out, and they will not necessarily, if they’re not able to order, they will be able to order like pre-order.

So the timing on this should be great. Um, we were thumping on our, um, our manufacturer this week at Shot Show, and they’re, they’re on board a little more than they were. So, um, those are the best ways. Again, I’m on all social. I do have a little bit of more light, uh, YouTube channel. Uh, and, and I, I haven’t done this on many of the podcasts.

There is a dad joke that came with this, this, uh, knife that I love and I’m still trying to sell my partners on. So, new Lu, right? NULU. If you put a G on the front and you put an O between the, uh, L and the U, you get new Lou, right? Like a water buffalo named Lou. So on my, uh, it should be like a Cape Buffalo.

Um, I even, I even immortalized it in, in [00:54:00] because this was what changed my life, right? So you can kind of see it. Um, I think it’s on my social. Um. But New Luing is my YouTube channel and I have my kids help me with that. Uh, and it’s super fun. So what we try and do is show it in action. It’s a real visual product.

The only way to get it is when you’re like, whoa. So there’s some videos there. Uh, I’m on personally now. I’m on like Blue Sky, like I’m trying to get everywhere. Um, so if they look me up now, I will say there’s a different Duck Katz that I’m trying to do stuff with. Uh, he’s in Cleveland where I’m actually originally from, which is the bizarre part.

And he’s like a James Beard chef. So that’s not the me Duck Cats. The Me Duck Cats is the one in Trout Valley, Illinois. Um, but hopefully by the time this comes out, I’m, I’m trying to do a, a, a collaboration with him ’cause it’s just too damn good. Like two Duck Who, who were born in the same city. I think he was born there.

Uh, who are both, uh, you know, it would be cold. So it’s not that duck. It’s, it’s [00:55:00] me. Duck.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay, well I’ll, I’ll try to put those links in the show notes for folks who wanna connect, so hopefully it’ll avoid any confusion. I, I have those links from you anyway, so, um, so that, that’ll do that. Um, and, and it’s great because I, I think, um, the more people who are aware of this type of technology and they are in the kitchen now, they’re, they’re using these knives and they’re, they’re able to do this thing that they haven’t been able to do maybe or, or not easily able to do before, um, you know, with traditional knives.

And they’re now able to, to use this, uh, type of knife to be able to enjoy the things that they used to do. Hopefully that, that flips, that, that switch in their head and says, okay, well what else. Did I used to enjoy doing what and what’s preventing me from doing that and how can I get back to doing that type of

Douglas Katz: Well, and I, you know, I wanna throw one other thing out there ’cause your audience is hugely veterans.

Scott DeLuzio: sure.

Douglas Katz: Um, and I wanna say like, if [00:56:00] any, have an idea for an adaptive product, non mechanical, right? Like I. I don’t mess with gears, we don’t mess with, you know, it’s really just thing. I guess you could have a gear if it’s, if it’s, if it’s actuated or whatever,

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Douglas Katz: um, come to me like, I would love to help people.

I was helped. And for vets who wanna be entrepreneurs, there are amazing, amazing, amazing resources. Um, there used to be Bunker Labs. They merged with IVMF, the Institute for Veterans and Military Families Outta Syracuse. They run several accelerators. And specifically for military and mill spouse. That was critical in my go-to-market.

I have an MBA that was better content. I mean, my MBA was 20 years old. Great content, great place to go. Um, there is Warrior Rising, another phenomenal one. There’s Founders Institute, which have military fellowships and scholarships, and there’s dog tag, which actually [00:57:00] I think they’re out of Missouri. I don’t know for sure.

But you go through their cohort, you actually get a stipend and then you work in their facility. But your business doesn’t have to be like a bakery that, that you work in. But there are all these things out there, and I’ve been talking a lot about disability, but I also think that the, the criticality of our country regaining some of what, what we did like after World War ii, 85%, or that some number like that of businesses were owned by veterans. I think when you look at the 90% failure rate, or 99 or 95, whatever, the number doesn’t really matter. That number drops. If you’ve got veterans who have support, who can really bring a thing to market, they’ve got grit. They know how to do stuff. They know how to think. It’s like being in the field again.

Scott DeLuzio: again. Yeah.

Douglas Katz: Let me help, let me help you if that’s you out there or. If I’m not the right guy, reach out to these organizations. Um, they’re free, they’re amazing. And with adaptive products, again, our big picture is let’s help other people bring it to market [00:58:00] later on after NULU. So please find me and let me help you.

Because the degree of of generosity that has got me to this point, um, has been, it’s just been really humbling, right? Like you look and everyone tells you you’ve got an idea, don’t talk to anybody f that, talk to as many people as you can. That’s where success will, will come from, and that’s where you will find people to give you agency to open doors.

Things like manufacturing, I’m learning a lot of lessons. We had to shit can our first manufacturer because, you know, and that put us a couple of months behind. I don’t want other veterans to have those lessons. So we’d love to help.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, that, that’s wonderful. And so again, your details will be in the show notes for the listeners, so check that out if you wanna get in touch. Uh, and, and, uh, if you wanna find out more about the knives and maybe that seems like something that’s good for you or someone you know, uh, definitely go check it out.

And I’ll have a link to the website there where you can either pre-order or buy one yourself, depending on when you’re, when you’re listening to this and when the, [00:59:00] the sales start going live. But, um, man, this, this has been a great conversation. I think, you know, got, got the gears turning I think a little bit, uh, you know, for me anyways, hopefully for some of the

Douglas Katz: Yeah. I’m gonna get a call for you. Hey, got this great idea. Let’s build.

Scott DeLuzio: know, right? But, but no seriously, anyone out there who is, you know, thinking of a product and they have this idea in mind, just don’t know, you know, what’s that next step? How do I, how do I do this? You know, definitely reach out and, you know, to either, either to Doug or to some of these organizations here.

And, and, uh, I’m sure, I’m sure there’s a way to do it.

Douglas Katz: Yeah. And literally, if you had asked me. Yeah, it’s been about two years now. Really One year with my existing team. If you had asked me if I would be at this point, I’d have told you you’re crazy. It’s been, it’s been a mix of for Gump and, and, um, oh my god, I’m drawing a total, um, what’s the guy, the nuclear bomb guy?

Um, the movie

Scott DeLuzio: oh, uh, uh, Oppenheimer.

Douglas Katz: Oppenheimer, somewhere between that, [01:00:00] right. Where it’s been really organic, but, but, um, I never would’ve thought, like, I never would’ve thought this ugly thing I built in my garage just ’cause I couldn’t do anything would now be, you know, I would have a partner at Shot show talking to distributors and, but everybody can do that and veterans are great at it, so just would love to help ’em.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, absolutely. And, uh, yeah, you, you, you go much further when you’re going together, um, than, than than you do going alone. So definitely partner up find, find people, trust trustworthy people and, uh, you know, partner up with them and, and figure out how to make your dreams, your, your ideas, whatever it is to go as far as they possibly can.

Um, but this has been great. I really do appreciate it. And, and again, for the listeners, check those

Douglas Katz: Thank you so much and I, I always love a platform to be able to share the, the, the fortune and, and everything that I’ve had. And again, hopefully it’s provided some value for your viewers.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I, I, I think so. It’s definitely, definitely got the gears turning in my head, so hopefully it has in, in, in the heads of some of the [01:01:00] listeners.

So, so thanks again. Really

Douglas Katz: Oh, absolutely. Thank you.