Episode 481 Bee Doyle Alternative Healing for PTSD Transcript

This transcript is from episode 481 with guest Bee Doyle.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] You’re back home, but it doesn’t feel like home. The sleepless nights, the hypervigilance, the memories. You can’t escape. It’s like the war followed you back. You’ve tried the traditional roots therapy medication, the VA system, but nothing really fixes it, does it? You start to wonder if you’re just broken, but what if you’re not?

What if there’s another way, something outside the box that finally brings you peace? Bee Doyle knows that struggle. She’s a combat veteran, a nurse practitioner and intuitive healer. Bee walked through the fire facing trauma, alcohol abuse, and the frustration of feeling unheard. But she found her way to healing using unconventional methods that transformed her life.

And today she’s sharing how alternative modalities like acupuncture, breath work, and even astrology, became the tools that helped her reclaim her life. If you’ve ever felt like you’ve run out of options, [00:01:00] this episode is for you. Stay with us and before we dive in, don’t forget to visit Drive On Podcast dot com slash subscribe to join our mailing list.

You’ll get my five favorite episodes straight to your inbox, handpicked to help you on your journey. So let’s dive in.

Bee, I want to welcome you to the show. Thank you very much for being here. Glad to

Bee Doyle: Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Scott. It’s an honor to be here, so I’m very grateful. Thank you.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, excellent. Um, so start by maybe giving us a little overview of your, your time in the military and, uh, you know, kind of what you went through, maybe your subsequent struggles, uh, after, you know, getting out and, and all of those types of things and, uh, kind of paint the picture, uh, you know, for the listeners who aren’t familiar with you and, uh, you know, who, who’s B, you know, and, and fill us

in on

Bee Doyle: Absolutely. Um, so I joined the service after high [00:02:00] school. I did one semester, I think, of college, and I was, you know, trying to be grown up, working, living on my own, and I was like, there has to be a better way, a different way. And my boyfriend at the time was in the national guard and he, he wanted me to join the air force if I was going to do anything, but I ended up joining the army reserves and that was in 2006 and. For some reason, even it, you know, even though we were in this sort of wartime era, I guess I had this impression in my brain that as a woman and going into the medical field, that I would never see combat. That would not be me. That would not be my path. Maybe my recruiter told me that. I’m not sure. Um, but I ended up joining and of course went through basic training and then into AIT and I ended up at my unit, eventually my, my permanent unit, and They said, well, actually, as it turns [00:03:00] out, you know, we have you in a slot to be what’s called a Mike six with the 68 whiskey identifier.

So I was combat medic and with the Mike six identifier, that’s the practical nursing. So I was activated to actually go through the army nurse program and that was fine. Um, But I should have known something was up, right, by being activated to go to that training. Well, I graduated that training, that was about an additional 14 months, um, at Fort Sam and then Fort Gordon. Got back after that training to my home unit once again and found out that the unit was going to be deploying. So, you know, the next couple, it was probably actually like a year and a half of preparation for, um, deployment. So. You know, even though I was technically a reservist, I ended up activated more time than I was reserve status. [00:04:00] So, preparation for the deployment, um, we learned that they were splitting our unit, actually. We were deploying as the 94th Combat Support Hospital, um, being attached to the 25th Infantry Division, and they were splitting our unit into two missions. So One mission, we had a group going to Bagram to work in the detention center, and then another group going to Forward Operating Base Salerno to run the field hospital there.

And, you know, they actually, interestingly, sort of gave me a choice. Um, they wanted, I’m not sure, you know, how that happened, how they would give an E4 the choice, but they asked me my preference, right? And my battle buddy was going to Salerno, and I was like, that’s where I need to be, you know, I want to be with her.

Our husbands were actually married at the time, so I think they kind of were like, alright, you can go do this mission instead. Um, [00:05:00] And it was a very active deployment. You know, we were, we were in Salerno, which is in the coast province off the Pakistan border. And of course, attached to the 25th Infantry Division, we saw a lot of active combat.

And coming into that deployment, um, I knew, I just knew that this was not going to be some kind of Scott DeLuzio walk in the park where, you know, I’m just in the hospital and that sort of thing. We were met with the unit that we were relieving, you know, they lost one of their captains during their mission. He was hit by an RPG on his way into the hospital one morning. And so just kind of that, the heaviness that we walked into. And each unit previous to us had these walls that they made, um, indicating like the amount of mass casualty events that had happened while they were there. And, you know, there was anywhere from [00:06:00] probably 15 to 20 mass casualty events for every unit that had been there. So

I was like, wow, shit is gonna be real, right? Um, And of course, it was, you know, in particular, we, we had one major instance on June 1st, 2012, where the base was infiltrated, um, by, I think, 10 insurgents on a suicide mission, they blew through Um, our dining hall, everything, the entire base, basically. And we took over, I think, 130 casualties that day. So everything from, you know, contractors to American soldiers, but we were on the ground running through, you know, trying to triage all of these people. And I think, you know, that probably went on for about 36 hours, but in total. It was somewhere around 130, 150 people that we triaged and had to [00:07:00] medevac many of them, of course, and, um, Much of that mission, at least initially, was going on while the insurgents were on the base, and we were being actively engaged upon, and that is where I earned my Combat Action Badge.

Scott DeLuzio: For the listeners who haven’t had any sort of experiences like this, um, five minutes in a combat situation feels like a lifetime. Um, just, it, it’s, I don’t know what it is that, like, I don’t know how time slows down or, or whatever, so I can only imagine, um, you know, sustained for any length of, of time, like over a, like you said, You know, most of that 36 hour period, it sounded like was, uh, you know, with the insurgents who were, you know, attacking the base and, or, or maybe even inside, uh, the wire, I’m not sure exactly how that, that went down, but, um, [00:08:00] that must have felt like an eternity, um, going through all of that.

Bee Doyle: Yeah, they, they were inside the wire. They, they breached, um, You know, they had the suicide bomber who drove through and it was like, I think they concluded like over 2000 pounds of explosives. That’s how they kind of infiltrated. And then, you know, the insurgents followed in, they were wearing American fatigues, so it was kind of like the blast happened, everybody was, you know, discombobulated, the dining hall was completely blown in, and then the insurgents were there, you know, starting with the firefight.

So I’m

not sure

Scott DeLuzio: and they were wearing, they were wearing American, uh, fatigues at, at

Bee Doyle: they were, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: So it, it’s hard enough.

Going, going to a place where they don’t typically wear uniforms at all, they just kind of blend into the civilian population, you can’t, you know, unless a rifle or an RPG or something is being aimed at you, you really can’t tell the difference between one person and the next.

Is this a [00:09:00] friendly or is this a hostile person? Now go and, you know, And even more confusion to the mix and throw American uniforms on the people, now, now who’s the bad guy? You know, everybody looks the same. You know, it’s like that, that, uh, awkward moment when everyone’s wearing the same, uh, same clothes at school or something like that.

You got the same outfit. It’s like, oh man, that’s kind of weird. But now it’s, I don’t know if I’m supposed to shoot you or not. You know, like that, that’s, that’s gotta be really difficult

Bee Doyle: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, of course, as you know, medical personnel, our primary focus was, you know, trying to triage and quickly, um, you know, just get these people to the higher level of care. But, you know,

the way we were sort of set up was it was not a full functioning field hospital at that point in, you know, the war by 2012. So we had. You know, about four beds in our immediate triage area, what would be similar to like an emergency room [00:10:00] stateside, and then maybe eight or ten beds in like the, uh, what would be like an ICU setting, intensive care setting. Um, so obviously we had, you know, way more casualties than we even had beds.

And of course, during an active attack. The skies were what we called black at the time. So they were not able to, you know, get the Blackhawks in and out to medevac people to the next higher, higher echelon of care. So we were having to, you know, hold all of these people, many with, um, you know, serious life threatening injuries. You know, we had that all the way down to the walking wounded. People with TBI’s and things like that. Um, but yeah, it was, um, it was an intense experience to say the least.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, for sure. And in total, uh, you may not have the, the, the number, but approximately like how many people were on that base? Uh, you know, you said there’s 130 to 150 casualties. I’m just trying to get a feel for like [00:11:00] what, what percentage of the base was a casualty, you know, at that

Bee Doyle: Yeah. If I had to guess, I would say probably two or 3000 people. And, you know, that’s,

that’s just a guess. Um,

but you know, Salerno at the time was one of the bigger forward operating bases. So,

you know, it was, it was decent size.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, for sure. It definitely, uh, a larger, uh, a larger base. Um, but. Just trying to get context here for the listeners. Like what, what are we talking about? Like, was the whole population almost wiped out or, or was it, you know, a smaller percentage, but even still, that’s a, that’s a significant percentage of, uh, the, the group there, you know, almost 10%.

Um, you know, if it was 2, 000 people, uh, you know, you’re, you’re approaching that

anyways, um, and so that’s, that’s, uh, that’s a big chunk of people, um, and that, that messes, you know, from a, you know, a, [00:12:00] uh, you know, fighting position here. Now, now you’re talking about there, there’s probably a certain, uh, leadership amongst the chain of, chain of command who were, were influenced and, or, or affected by this.

And so now it’s like, okay, now we have to fill these gaps. And so. Meanwhile, we also have to try to get these people to help. But you know, who’s in charge here? And now we got to figure that out. But it’s an amazing thing that happens when, when people are kind of removed from that situation, people just kind of fill in.

And it’s, it’s a great thing, I think, in the military, where you just learn How to be a leader and just take charge when things need to be done. You just do it. And, um, you don’t sit around waiting for someone to say you do this, you do that. I mean, of course, someone tells you to, you go ahead and do it, but, um, you, you take that initiative and you go and do it.

So, um, and I have to imagine even, you know, especially in the medical field, I was an infantryman, um, And so I absolutely [00:13:00] love, you know, the medical fields, all the docs out there, those were like, having people like you guys around were, it was like gold, you know, because we were, we were dumb and we would get hurt all the time.

And so, um,

Bee Doyle: too. You know, we gotta, we were taking care of you guys.

Scott DeLuzio: well, I mean, you guys would be out of business if it wasn’t for us.

We wouldn’t have anybody to work with, but, uh, um, but I got to imagine, you know, seeing going through all of these things and, uh, seeing these mass casualties, uh, mass casualty events and, um, dealing with so many tragic situations because a lot of these people, these were like life changing

Bee Doyle: Mm-hmm

Scott DeLuzio: situations, um, you know, especially people who, uh, you know, had TBIs, like those don’t just go away.

You can’t put a, you know, bandage on it and wait for it to heal. Um, the, the, you know, people [00:14:00] who I don’t know for sure, but maybe, maybe somebody lost a limb or eyesight or hearing or something like that. And now they have to learn to adjust to this new life that they have to live now with this reduced capacity to be able to, um, you know, do the things that they used to be able to do.

Um, but I also have to imagine for someone like you who was in the thick of it, treating all of these people, that had to have an effect on you as well, right?

Bee Doyle: Absolutely. I mean, you know, the attack that we just spoke of was just probably the most not notable thing that happened while we were there, but it wasn’t the only thing right.

I mean, we had probably 15 mass casualty events while we were there. Um, you know, there was one event where I had to take care of a seven year old child, um, an Afghan child who, you know, ultimately did not end up, you know, surviving his injuries, but, you [00:15:00] know, those were just some of the things.

It was a year of repeated trauma and sort

of that, you know, Feeling of like impending doom almost, like, you know, is today going to be the day that I’m in that captain’s place? I just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time and I’m taken out by an RPG. And so, you know, the struggles were immense when I returned home.

And I think too, you know, as a reservist, the challenges are And I think that’s what makes us even more unique in many ways. Because you come home and you know, you’re debriefed. We were held at Fort Hood for I think two weeks or something like that. And then they let us back out into the real world. And we don’t have our battle buddies. You

know, we’re, we’re scattered and, and, we’re expected to somehow return back to normal life when life is, you know, very far from normal in terms of what it may have looked like before an experience like that. And [00:16:00] so, yes, I was, um. You know, I was struggling very much so and, and to, you know, being a reservist, being a female veteran, I think has its own unique challenges as well. And so the journey back home was, you know, I started to struggle with some alcohol abuse and, you know, I was trying to numb out, right? I think I had my first flashback within probably days of being home. I was out for a run. Um, Trying to do something good, move that energy. And I caught the smell of like a diesel truck and it took me right back.

Like I was right back there on the base and I was like, Oh my gosh. I was like, are these like the flashbacks that I’ve heard about? You know? Um, so yeah, it was incredibly challenging and, you know, trying to navigate normal life again. It’s like, well, life is not normal after, after an experience like that.[00:17:00]

Scott DeLuzio: Right. It’s not. And, and you’re absolutely right. When, when it comes to like reservists or National Guard coming back, um, you know, for the, the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar, I’m sure most are, but you know, it’s, you see your, your unit usually one week in a month and two weeks out of the year. So, um, for the rest of the year, um, you have your own civilian job.

And you go work your civilian job or you’re in school or whatever it is that you’re, you’re doing, you just, you’re living life like anybody else, but then on, you know, one week in a month, two weeks out of the year, you go and do army stuff and you do your, you know, whatever training that you need to do and all that kind of stuff.

But, um, but you’re, you’re pretty, usually pretty far removed from any sort of army installation or, or, you know, army support. And, um, you know, there’s other, or other services, things like that, mental health, um, you know, things along those lines, and it’s not like you see people from the army every single day [00:18:00] that it’s like, okay, well, let me ask, where can I go and get help?

And what, what can I do, you know, for these types of things? And, um, you mentioned that the flashbacks, you know, from that smell of the diesel, uh, truck. And, You know, it doesn’t require a traumatic event to have a flashback like that, like what you described, and the reason I’m mentioning that is because there might be some listeners, and I want to try to build some context around like what it is that you just said, maybe some listeners who have a flashback.

aren’t familiar with this, um, you know, from a traumatic standpoint, but they may be familiar with it from just something in their own life. Like there may be a smell from something from their childhood. It could be a pleasant thing too, where they come across a smell and then it brings them back like, Oh man, those fresh baked cookies that grandma used to make, you know, it like, that could be something that like brings them back to, to that time.

Now, let’s take this and say, let’s say it’s not fresh baked cookies. Let’s say it’s the [00:19:00] diesel that’s burning from, you know, uh, you know, a car bomb or, or something like that. Um, so now you’re not getting that pleasant experience. Now you’re getting a traumatic experience that you’re remembering and potentially even reliving through just that quick little bit of a smell as you’re just passing by a diesel truck or it passed you, whichever direction you happen to be going.

Right? Um, But, but you, you get that, and now you have to relive that experience because it’s like, it’s in your head, right? Same way you might relive the experience of grandma’s cookies, or, or whatever. And you may enjoy that, that might be pleasurable, like, oh wow, that was, that was great, you know? Maybe I’ll, I’ll make some cookies when I get home, I’ll pull out her recipe and, you know, whatever.

Um, But this, it’s like, okay, now, now, what do you do with it? Right? So, so when did you realize that maybe you needed to get some help? And, um, you know, what were some of those first steps that you took towards getting some healing?

Bee Doyle: I [00:20:00] think, you know, that initial flashback was sort of, um, I was like, wow, you know, and I said that happened, you know, very early on returning home. I was like, wow, I am not normal, you know, after this experience, quote, normal, what is normal, but, you know, I’m not the same person I was

when, you know, prior to this experience.

And I think, you know, Things started to manifest as time went on. I was somehow expecting, well, give it a few weeks, months, you know, maybe things will get better. This is all just still so fresh and raw, and I’m just trying to reintegrate. But probably within a year, you know, Life, I just wasn’t functioning.

You know, the alcohol abuse was really problematic. It was becoming, you know, to the point where I wasn’t drinking every day, but it was like binge drinking. So I would go on drinking binges and this was all in an effort to try and numb [00:21:00] out. You know, I wasn’t sleeping, right? The insomnia was real, the nightmares when I was sleeping. Um, so it was sort of like using the alcohol to try to cope. And. Just escape, you know, I wasn’t ready to process or actually really deal on an emotional level with the experiences that I had. So that was my escape and it did not help that at the time I happened to live like right across from a VFW, so I was, I was going in there, you know, constantly to just, you know, get the 0.

50 beers or whatever it was, and it did become a problem. I think, you know. At a certain point my, my husband at the time finally called me out and, you know, kind of, he was actually a, a service member as well. And like, you know, I think that you really need some help. Um, things are not going well. You’re drinking and you’re not sleeping.

You’re not taking care of yourself. You’re having nightmares, the [00:22:00] flashbacks, all of the things. So I did initially seek out, um, like private practice, you know, I wasn’t, Ready to really enter the VA system. I think there was a stigma around that and you know, even the thought of that was just sort of triggering.

So, you know, I started with some counseling and a private psychiatrist, but did eventually make my way into the VA system at actually the recommendation of the psychiatrist and You know, he said, I think it’s going to be important in the long run to sort of be established within the VA. And that was like opening a whole can of worms in itself too, you know, because it was, my intuition was right about that.

It was incredibly triggering to be, you know, even walking in for a VA appointment and, you know, again, as a female veteran, I feel, um, There were times where there was like some discrimination or, you know, I was asked on several [00:23:00] occasions, like, you know, if I was there as like the widow of a veteran or something and, you know, things like that.

And it would just be like, I’m the service member.

Um, but yeah, so I got in with the VA system and started working some of their programs. You know, they Yeah. Offered, um, cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a type of trauma processing therapy. And of course the standard kind of medications for depression, which would be like SSRIs, um, serotonin uptake inhibitors. And, you know, I did that for a while and I just felt like, this is not helping, this is not helping. And then, you know, I was sort of made to feel I guess, you know, no one ever said this outright, but in my heart, I was feeling like, well, you know, this is not helping. They think I’m just like malingering, right? Because I’m here doing all the work, but I’m still not [00:24:00] sleeping. I’m still feeling horrible. I still can’t function in the world. So that was a journey in itself, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I, you know, one of the reasons why I do this podcast is because of people like you. myself included, other people that I’ve talked to who have gone through and done all the things that the VA and other, you know, medical providers, mental health providers, uh, suggest and, They, they do all the cognitive behavioral therapy, the, uh, all the, the other types of therapies, the, uh, even the medications, um, all of those things that people do don’t necessarily work for everybody.

And there are other things out there people can do, which have [00:25:00] been effective and helped some people, but for whatever reason, the VA, it’s like they have blinders on and they just. Don’t acknowledge some of these things

and if all it is that you do as a veteran is go to the VA and say hey I have this problem and they put you through Whatever therapies that they put you through because these are the the ones that according to research and studies and science These are the ones that are the most effective

and after you’ve gone through all of those You’re still feeling like you haven’t accomplished anything.

What is that, what message is being sent to you is, is essentially, well, you’re broken and there’s nothing left for us to do to help you. And, uh, you know, you’re on your own.

Bee Doyle: yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: That to me is such a, like a bullshit message that [00:26:00] you’re sending to people, or if they, and if they, they send a message to you saying that, you know, we’re, we’re stopping the services because we don’t think it’s going to be effective, you know, after a certain period of time, it’s no longer, uh, appropriate medically or whatever they, they determine it to be, uh, for this particular individual.

And so, you know, that message that gets sent is like, well, I guess I’m shit out of luck at

Bee Doyle: mm hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. and and then what, what’s next? Right. So this is, this is why, what, this message that you’re talking about right here is why this show exists is because there are other things out there. And I do want to get into that.

Um, and Because you have, uh, gone through that journey and you’ve figured out some other, uh, maybe non conventional, uh, healing approaches. Uh, let’s talk about some of those and, and what are, you know, what was that journey like first [00:27:00] off? How did you kind of discover some of those? And then what are, are some of those, uh, things that you’ve used that have helped you and, you know, potentially help other people as

Bee Doyle: absolutely and you know, I don’t want to um, you know shit all over the VA I think the VA has some really good, you know programs and and for some people the therapies and the medications work really well Right,

but all of

our stories are so unique and the way that trauma shows up can be very unique you know, we think of often think of PTSD and trauma and We think of, you know, this kind of box of symptoms, but it can be so much more, you know, it can be the things that we don’t really associate. It’s more than just the nightmares. You know, it can be that lack of motivation and chronic self doubt and self criticism and all these things too. So, you know, don’t want to say the VA is all, all bad because there are a lot of good people in there and, and sometimes those modalities work really well for people.

But, [00:28:00] you know, I was doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing. And, and like you specifically said, When you’re not getting the results that you know are expected from the treatment, you do begin to feel like broken and flawed, and well, what’s wrong with me, right?

And so actually the first modality that I tried, and you know to me I was sort of Playing it safe, right, being with that nursing background.

It’s like, we, we use this term evidence based a lot. So it’s like, well, what are the evidence based therapies? What’s something that, you know, might help, but I haven’t tried. And actually the first non conventional modality that I really dove into was acupuncture. And I started seeing a private practice acupuncturist outside the VA, um, because I do think some VAs are offering that now, which is amazing.

But at the time it wasn’t available for me. And so I started going and it was like, you know, Laying on this table with these little needles in me, [00:29:00] was able to get some of like the most restorative, like rest, even though the sessions were maybe an hour long, it was like, okay, something’s like starting to happen.

I’m able actually able to relax when I’m laying here. And, you know, the lady was sweet. The acupuncturist always, gave me a little bit of extra time. You lay here as long as you need, um, cause she knew the background story, but I started to see some subtle differences by doing that acupuncture. Um, I was feeling a little bit more calm, more grounded, more able to relax, even started sleeping a little bit better. So the acupuncture was the first thing that I started that I would consider non conventional, although it’s more widely

accepted now, I think, um, but that got me really curious for, for more, you know, What, you know, why is this working so well? What’s behind it? So I started diving into more modalities, which [00:30:00] are similar, um, things like yoga and breath work and, um, other energetic healing modalities such as Reiki. But, you know, I was still kind of struggling along, plugging along, but it’s like, you know, All the symptoms would, they would be okay, and then they’d kind of rear their ugly head again. And it was actually, um, you know, with the birth of my son, where there was kind of like, This big shift, I guess that happens.

I, I call it like almost a spiritual awakening. You know, I had this deep. Profound realization that it wasn’t just for me anymore. You know, I had to, I had to heal. I had to do better for my son. And, you know, I was raised by my mom who was raised by. a World War II veteran who at one point in his service was, you know, taken as a prisoner of war. So it was like these generational [00:31:00] patterns, you know, starting to show up. And it was like, wow, I started to see some meaning in my experience. It was like, well, It wasn’t for nothing. It was to sort of break these generational curses, right? Because I have to give my son a better life than I had. And so I was trying to do all the things.

I was listening to self help podcasts, and reading the books, and diving into yoga and the breath work, and, The more, you know, accepted modalities where we can maybe draw a little bit of evidence that, wow, these things actually work and they can be tied into Western medicine. Um, but I was listening to a podcast one day and they started talking about astrology actually.

And I was like, Wow, this is sort of interesting. I’m like, you know, you think about the moon and how powerful it is to control the tides of the ocean, so maybe there’s something to it. And I actually ended up booking a reading with the lady that, the [00:32:00] astrologer, that they were talking with on the podcast.

And it was, you know, at that moment that Things really shifted for the first time, you know, since my combat tour, nine years, approximately prior to that, I felt seen, I felt validated. I felt like, wow, you know, all those hours of counseling. And I got further in this one hour astrology reading than, you know, hundreds of hours of cognitive behavioral therapy and, you know, EMDR and all the other modalities that I had tried. And I was like, wow. Wow, I think I just discovered, you know, what may hold really the key to my healing journey. And so I dove in.

Scott DeLuzio: And so what was it that, that made you feel like this was so much different than any of the others, like that, that helped you to, to be, uh, [00:33:00] feel like you were seen or understood in the, in this session, what, what was it that kind of made that light bulb go off for you? Like, this is a thing that I, that, that’s going to help me, you know, what, what was that for

Bee Doyle: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a little bit hard to explain, but I just, you know, here’s someone who I had never met before, right? All she had was my birthday, time of birth, where I was born, and she was telling me things that We’re so accurate. It was, it was almost eerie, but it was empowering, you know, because I’m like, okay, here, she’s telling me all these things that are amazingly accurate.

And she’s also telling me things that are incredibly empowering, like, you know, that I’m here for a reason, a purpose. And, and a lot of that is revealed in my soul’s birth chart. And, you know, it’s, it’s one, Type of personality typing, right? There’s many out there such as like the [00:34:00] enneagram and other methods, but it was incredibly accurate and it was empowering because I don’t think at any point during any of my other, you know, counseling or EMDR sessions, you know, did anyone ever, Make me feel empowered, like I had some control, you know, and I wasn’t lost or broken, that I was, you know, a person in a, in a physical body, but here for a spiritual experience, for evolution and growth, you know, that

never came up in my counseling sessions, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, right, right. And that, that to me is like a big, that’s a big issue, right? If, if you don’t have, uh, the person on the other end of, you know, whatever that meeting is, what the session that you’re, you’re in, if they’re not really, you know, In it for you. They’re not there to encourage you [00:35:00] and support you and help you feel like, Hey, I’m actually going to make it out of this and I’m going to be okay on the other end.

I don’t think that person’s doing their job. You know? Um, and, and again, not, not to shit on the VA. Um, there’s some absolutely wonderful people who work for the VA. They’re a government. Run bureaucracy like any other. And they have only so much funding and only so many people to do the work. And so they, they can’t do everything right.

And I, but I think that’s a big miss still. Like if. If you came out of some of those sessions not feeling like that person was, um, there to, you know, help you and support you the way that you were getting from, uh, that, that one astrology, uh, session, I don’t know, I, just in my opinion, I feel like they just weren’t doing their job, you know, and, um, you know, that, that’s kind of a big miss, I think, but, [00:36:00] um, but anyways, um, so you, you go through this and you’re starting to, uh, you know, see that there’s some benefit here and that there’s hope, right?

And, and I think that’s an important piece of anybody’s healing. And I don’t care what modality it is that you’re using, whether it’s any of those evidence based treatments or, or maybe some of the non conventional ones. Um, If, if you’re starting to have hope, like, hey, this could be the thing that is going to get me back to feeling quote unquote normal, whatever that means for, for you, um, or, or at least not feeling so bad, you know, um, if, if that’s what you’re getting out of the, this thing and you’re getting hope, I think that’s, that’s a, that’s That’s a great first step in anybody’s healing, regardless of the modality that they’re using, right?

Bee Doyle: Absolutely, you [00:37:00] know, I was, I had so much hope. I felt so empowered after that one reading that, you know, I was inspired to keep going, like, okay, I truly felt like I was able to, you know, Make some meaning out of my experience, you know, through the lens of astrology. And I think that’s a big piece of the healing journey is when you can really take that experience and start to make meaning of it.

Right. And for me, that meaning really came through. The understanding of, you know, this is a generational karmic thing, if you, you know, want to use the word karma, but this is something that I came here to heal. And it’s like, when I heal, you know, maybe that healing trickles over to my mom who had these experiences, you know, and of course my son, but it was that point.

And I did find meaning through that astrology reading. I was so hungry for more after that, that [00:38:00] I just dove in and, you know, I was doing, like I mentioned, some of the safer things, right, that might not be considered so out there, the yoga and the breath work and things like that. But the astrology felt a lot more spiritual to me as well.

And so I dove in headfirst. I was like, I have to, I have to learn how to do this for other people. So I started studying, I enrolled in a couple formal. Training programs and then the gal that my first reading that I had with her she ended up being my mentor So I learned from her and you know any astrology reading I feel like is one part coaching one part Just like intuitive guidance and I have been so lucky to be able to help people through that lens as well and Give people some meaning and hope and, you know, also too, I think there’s a misconception around, you know, the way [00:39:00] our Western medicine minds kind of work is like, we think that healing means curing, you know. I’m not necessarily cured of my PTSD, right? Because sometimes the symptoms are still there. I’ve been able to learn how to navigate and manage, but I’m healed enough to be able to sit here and talk about it and to empower other people to embark on that journey and to incorporate it as part of my story, really, right?

It’s like, you’re not broken. Those are not bad things that happened. They’re just pieces of you and pieces of your story, and it’s not something, you know, that you need to be ashamed of or to run from. All parts of us are what make us whole, right? So we have to invite it all in, really. Mm

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I’ve said this before on the show that I really believe that we are the sum of all the experiences that we’ve [00:40:00] encountered throughout life. You know, whether it is a good experience or a bad experience or, you know, The birth of a child, great experience, wonderful, wonderful thing, life changing. It’s such a great thing.

But also, you know, there’s a death of a, you know, a loved one or, um, you know, other tragic events that take place that, you know, the, uh, some of the combat experiences that you described earlier in this episode, all of those things make up who we are and you can’t take away any of those experiences. Well, I mean, you can if you.

You know, hit your head and you have memory loss. And now, now you don’t remember those things. Right. But they still may still have an effect on you, um, down, down the line. And so as, as we build all these experiences, now what I’m hearing from you and what I I’m hoping some of the listeners will take away from this is that, [00:41:00] yeah, sure, you’ve experienced a traumatic event and you deal with PTSD.

And that’s something that up until that point, okay, that is part of who you

Bee Doyle: hmm. Mm

Scott DeLuzio: And you don’t necessarily have the coping mechanism to deal with that. So it causes problems. You’re drinking and, and other things that people end up doing to self medicate. Because you’re trying to fix that problem,

that, that traumatic event, you’re using something that maybe it’s not the greatest idea, but it’s, it’s, Hey, it worked.

It worked once, right? So why not give it another try and keep, keep trying again and again. Right? Um, but then there’s other problems that, that build up on there too. So now, now you’re, you’re even further down the line. Now you have even more problems because now you’re drinking too much. You might be missing work.

You might be, uh, you know, having trouble with relationships. You might be having all these different issues. Um, but then you discover this, this, this, this. Whatever it is, in [00:42:00] your case, it happened to be astrology, but I’m just saying for, for the listeners, it could be anything. It could be one of those more conventional methods.

It could be astrology. It could be horseback riding. It could be whatever it is for you. That thing that helps you do. Deal with that trauma, that whatever is causing that PTSD. That thing that you’ve discovered is another piece of who you are. And so again, you’re the sum. You still have that piece of that, that PTSD part of you, the traumatic event that happened.

That’s still a part of you. It’s never going away. It’s always going to be there. But now you’ve discovered This coping mechanism, this way to deal with it. Um, I discovered when I was a young kid that the stove is hot. If you put your hand on the stove, it’s going to burn you, it’s going to hurt and you’re going to cry and it’s going to, it’s going to be miserable.

And, and you’re, you know, whatever, you’re gonna have to, you know, get it bandaged up or whatever [00:43:00] you need. Right? Well, I’ve developed since then a coping mechanism of just not putting my hand on the stove, you know, so you kind of learn as time goes on, you learn different coping mechanisms for different things.

I know that’s a silly, simple example, but it’s, it’s kind of the same idea where you have this traumatic thing that happened. And you discover a way to cope and deal with that traumatic

thing. And I don’t know, hopefully that made sense. I’m trying to just visualize it in words.

It’s kind of hard to do, but hopefully that

Bee Doyle: it.

makes total sense. And, you know, trauma is super complex, too, you know, in my

studies, um, because since all of this, too, I’ve also gone back to become a yoga teacher, and so I learned a lot more about sort of the body, and, you know, there’s a wonderful book out there called The Body Keeps the Score, um, huge trigger warning for the veterans out there, but, you know, [00:44:00] it’s this idea that The trauma is not just stuck in our brains, right? It’s literally held. The fascia is kind of what holds all of our muscle systems together. And that’s being viewed now as like a second nervous system. So the trauma is not just in our brain, right? It’s, it’s stored in our body. And so There’s different modalities, you know, the yoga and all of that has been very helpful as well, learning to sort of be embodied in that too, and being able to sit with sort of the feelings and, you know, again, the meaning has been so important, understanding that I sort of had to see all things across the human spectrum, you know, I had to see the worst of the worst to be able to be in a place where I’m able to help people and bring a little bit of light.

And, you know, the astrology was also key too, because it gave me so much insight into how I show up in the world, my kind of like [00:45:00] makeup, right? And it’s like,

Oh, no wonder I was, you know, struggling so much with this experience. Like, it was the astrology reading, I think, was the first time somebody had told me, like, well, you’re incredibly intuitive and empathic.

And I’m like, what? Looking back, it’s like, oh yeah, like I remember, I remember even in childhood being told I was sensitive and things like, you know, quote sensitive, um, so it just gave so much meaning to how I was showing up through these experiences and it’s like, oh, you know, the light bulb went off, like, I am not broken.

I’m not broken.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah.

And I think that’s the thing is that, you know, none of us are broken from these traumatic experiences. There are normal reactions that we’re having to Abnormal circumstances that we were in. Nothing’s normal about a mass casualty event with 150 people that you [00:46:00] have to treat. And, you know, there’s, there’s all sorts of nasty stuff everywhere that, um, that’s just not normal.

Right. But you had to experience it and you had to, To do it, and thank God that there was someone like you there, because you know, who knows how many lives were saved that day because of the work that you and your, your colleagues were able to perform. If it wasn’t for you, these people and their families would be having a whole lot worse of a time, because those people may not have made it home.

And so, um, you know, there’s There’s kind of like two sides to that story, right? To you, it’s traumatic, but, and, and not to take away the trauma from the people who are injured, but they’re looking at you like, thank God you’re there. You know, and I’m just saying it from an infantryman’s perspective. It’s like, thank God Doc is there because otherwise, I don’t know what the hell we’ll [00:47:00] do.

And so, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of, we’re, we’re complex preachers, aren’t we?

Bee Doyle: yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Um,

Bee Doyle: You know, it’s, it’s,

it’s full of paradox. And, you know, like I mentioned, having to sort of witness the worst of humanity to really be able to fully step into this gifting of being able to help people

and, you know, hold people accountable. safe space for people, just like I think you do as, as the host of these podcasts, you know, it’s, um, it’s sacred work in a way, right.

And it’s that paradox of life. And, you know, I

will not sit up here and say that I have it all figured out and, you know, that I’m cured of my PTSD. Like I mentioned, that’s, that’s such a Western mindset thing. You know, we want a quick fix.

Uh, we want the magic bullet, the magic cure all for everything. And it will be A lifetime.

You know, I have [00:48:00] to keep myself in check. I have to do the things that I know that work for me, manage my stress levels, um, helping people, of course, really fills my cup, but also not giving so much of myself away that I’m running around drained and then I’m back and, you know, the body keeps the score.

When I get back into that stress mode, it’s like, Oh my gosh, you know, I’m getting short again with my son or whatever it is. So it’s, it’s truly a lifetime journey, but you know, for people struggling with it, it’s, you know, there’s hope there can be healing in that. And that healing begins when we start to reintegrate those pieces of ourselves, I think.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I think part of that hope came from what you were talking about earlier when you went to that first astrology reading and, you know, to you that was something new. It was something that you heard about on a podcast and you’re like, you know what, maybe I’ll give it a try, you know, see if this works for [00:49:00] me.

But You know, if it doesn’t work, it’ll be like, you know, all the other things I tried and we’ll just add it to that pile, I suppose. Right. But for the listeners, this is why I have people like B on the show. To talk about things that maybe you wouldn’t have considered before, because maybe you need to hear it on a podcast somewhere that is giving you an idea of the next step for you, because you’ve tried it in your mind.

You’ve tried it all. Trust me, you haven’t. I have over 400 episodes proving you, you haven’t, unless you’ve done all of the things. Um, you know, right. The, there’s so many things out there that, um, that you could be trying. And I want to introduce new things, you know, all the time. I want, I want to have things that are outside the box, not the typical, what does a VA have to offer?

Um, I think we’re fairly well familiar with the different types of therapies. And if you’re not, [00:50:00] You go to the VA, they’re going to let you know what all those different types of therapies are and, um, you know, what may work for you and what may not work for you and all that kind of stuff, but there’s, there’s a whole world of things outside of the VA and that’s what I wanted to get across here and I know there’s, there’s probably going to be some people who are skeptical about, you know, astrology or, or some of these non traditional, uh, methods of, of healing.

Um, yeah. Any, any advice for those types of people who might still be on the fence, kind of a little bit skeptical, maybe they’re not even on the fence yet, they’re, they’re still on the other side of the fence and they, they, they’re looking at the fence like, ah, you know what, no, I don’t think this is, this isn’t the right thing for me.

Any advice for them or, or, you know, things for them to consider?

Bee Doyle: That’s a really good question, Scott. Um, you know, even though I was sort of on that, I was on the fence, right? I was on this sort of spiritual journey, and I think astrology very much falls into that category. But, you know, I was skeptical, definitely, before my first reading. Also at the same [00:51:00] note, again, the paradox, I was like, well, what the hell?

What do I have to lose at this point? Right? I mean, however much she charged me, you know, I I’d be out that money, but you know, big deal. Um, but for people that are skeptical, I mean, I think just going into it. Trying to keep an open heart and an open mind, you know, nobody has ever, in a good astrology reading, has ever been damaged, right?

It’s,

it’s there for empowerment. The way that I read astrology and do my coaching is, you know, viewing everyone as, you know, As spiritual beings walking around in a physical body, so that means inherently that, you know, you have worth, you have purpose, and through the lens of astrology we can dig a little bit deeper into that and really, really understand that. Help your soul along in the journey in terms of the evolution, right? That’s what we’re here to do. And so for anyone who’s skeptical, all I can say is give it a try. [00:52:00] You never know. It could, you could change your whole life. You could be an astrologer like I’m like I’ve become because of my reading.

Scott DeLuzio: Right, right. And, and I think that’s the whole point I want to get across here is give it a shot. If it doesn’t work, great. Okay, you’ve learned that there’s one thing that doesn’t work for you. Um, and now you can go stop wasting your time on that thing and move on to something else. It’s, it’s going through the motions and not stopping when you’re, you’re looking to try to heal, to try to get better, to try to be able to function in life.

Sometimes you need to just, you know, Kick your ass in gear and go do something and and if you can’t figure out what those things are You know, there’s there’s plenty of resources out there But you know try something new try something you never would have thought that you would have done Right,

that might be the thing for you, right?

Bee Doyle: [00:53:00] And astrology can be such a great tool because it is a tool of self awareness. You know,

if you don’t really understand yourself and how you’re showing up in the world on a deep level, then healing can be very difficult, right? You know, I, I was, led to understand some of my tendencies and things like even, you know, the tendency towards the binge drinking and the suicidal thoughts and things came out in the astrology. And it just gave me another tool to sort of work with these things. And, you know, it doesn’t make it go away, but self awareness is huge in the healing journey, right? We have to be able to understand our triggers and who we are on a deep, deep level. And that can be so helpful.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Sure For the listeners who maybe want to find out a little bit more about what you do and and how to Get in touch with you. Where can they go to find out more information?

Bee Doyle: So, I have my website, which is DoubleLibraAstrology. com, [00:54:00] and I offer free 30 minute discovery calls, so if you’re, if you’re on the other side of the fence, or maybe slowly thinking about climbing over, just book a call. We can chat about it, and, uh, I also offer different modalities in terms of, um, like energy medicine, which is based on the idea that, you know, a lot of these traumas can get sort of stuck or lodged into different areas like the chakra system. So working on clearing that out, which also can tie into the astrology, but yeah, doublelibraastrology. com.

Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. Well, I’ll have a link to that in the show notes, uh, for the listeners, so you can check it out and, uh, definitely check it out. If you’ve tried all these other things and you’re like, none of this stuff is working and, and, uh, I don’t know where to go next. Hey, here’s one more thing and give it a try.

Uh, give me a call. Uh, check it, get that, that, uh, uh, get that reading, uh, you know, scheduled. And, [00:55:00] and. You know, see, see where it goes. That might be the thing for you. So, um, be, I really do want to, uh, thank you for taking the time to come on the show, uh, sharing your experiences. I know some of those things are not easy to talk about, but it’s, I think, important for the listeners to understand that it’s like, Hey, people have been through hell and back, and there is hope for people like, like you, like, like me, like.

And so any number of the listeners out there who are feeling like they, they have no hope, um, there, there is hope out there for you. So thank you for coming on the show and

sharing, uh, your, your experiences.

Bee Doyle: Thank you so much for having me, Scott. And yes, there is hope. Do not ever give up or think that, you know, your life doesn’t have meaning. We’re all here for a meaning, a purpose, a reason, even if you’ve had to walk through hell and back, right? And being able to share the story is such a big part of that [00:56:00] journey.

So thank you for having that space available. It’s been an honor.