Episode 487 Juan Espinoza Veterans Turning Pain into Purpose Transcript

This transcript is from episode 487 with guest Juan Espinoza.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] You ever feel like you’re carrying around too much weight? Not the kind from a rucksack, but the kind that you don’t talk about? The emotional baggage, the pain, the regrets. We all do it. We bury things deep hoping that they’ll just go away. But what if facing that pain head-on could actually free you and help you I spoke with Juan Espinoza in this episode an Army veteran an author and speaker who turned his pain into his purpose. He went from stuffing down the weight of his experiences to writing a book in just two days. It was a book that changed his life and the lives of others. And if you’ve ever wondered how to stop letting your past dictate your future, this episode is for you.

So stick around because this conversation just might be the wake up call that you need. And hey, before we get into this episode, if you want more veteran to veteran conversations like this, head on [00:01:00] over to Drive On Podcast dot com slash subscribe to get my top five favorite episodes straight to your inbox.

Let’s get into it.

Juan, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here. Looking forward to this conversation, but, yeah, welcome to the show.

Juan Espinoza: Awesome. I’d love to be here. Definitely. for letting me be here. I’m excited.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Let’s talk a little bit about your journey from your military service. Tell us a little bit about that you know, where you served and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then you know, becoming an author and speaker and the, all the things that you do now. You know, how did that transition take place for you?

And how did you find yourself to be where you’re at now?

Juan Espinoza: Yeah, definitely. So, first and foremost, [00:02:00] I’m not really like a writing material type of guy. So when people say I wrote a book or my family, when I was writing my book, they’re just like, I didn’t know you’re writing a book. I was like, I didn’t know I was writing a book. So we’ll go to a military service.

So I enlisted in active duty army. back in 2009. I graduated high school, probably. So after I turned 18, I signed the next day in July. Went to base training Fort Benning, Georgia. I was 11 Bravo infantryman. I was stationed in Fort Campbell, Kentucky, of the 101st

Airborne Division. Yeah.

so I went there for three years. So when I get there it was around, so base training finished in December 2009. I got Um, actually to my unit in January after the whole Christmas leave thing. Um, then I deployed, I think it was April, to Afghanistan in 2010.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Juan Espinoza: So I was there in [00:03:00] Peshawar Valley, Kunar province, did a year there. And then after that, you know, got out 2012. Then I went to the National Guard over here in Sacramento. And I went to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba back in 2015. And then I got out of the service around 2017 and then I went private contracting and I did three years in Afghanistan as a private contractor. so That was basically my military service. But being an author, it was really, you know, a lot of us are in a lot of pain.

We don’t know how to handle sometimes. We bury, right? So that’s what I did, you know, throughout my entire life, basically. It’s just, you know, we bury things and we, if we bury them enough, we feel like they’ll go away. But really, pain doesn’t work like that, and I learned the hard way, so back in December, I was just in a lot of pain. Trying to gather I can do it [00:04:00] and manage, I guess you would say. But it wasn’t a physical pain, it was an emotional pain. So just one night in December, I was working out in the middle of the night and it was raining. And when I was working out, just trying to, you know, let’s just sweat it out and make sure all the, if I can sweat it out enough, it basically won’t hurt no more, right? Didn’t work that way. So. That was I was working outside and it was raining and something just told me just to, I just felt the urge just to walk out in the rain. So that’s, so I walked out and I just fell to my knees and at this point, you know, I felt like life was just kicking me on the ground and just. Didn’t really see anything like hope wise so I went out in the rain I just fell and just screamed just tell me my purpose and From that moment. I felt like a fire I’ve never felt before and I got up and just you know screamed at life I guess you would say, you know after everything I’ve been through after everything I’ve lost of all the woman I loved [00:05:00] left you can’t beat me And then in the distance, lightning went off, like in the far distance, sort of majestic, but so I went inside, dried off, grabbed a bottle of whiskey, and wrote my book in two days.

Scott DeLuzio: Wow. So I also was the type of person that no one would ever look at and be like, Hey, yeah you look like you’d be an author. You would write a book at some point. Like my English teachers, I’m like, you know, from high school or whatever. If I, if they knew that I wrote a book, they may have a heart attack because like it was, it probably would be too much of a shock to the system.

With just how bad of an English I was, but, um, Yeah. But you saying that you wrote the book in two days, like my book took years to put together and it was, you know, countless revisions and just going back and, you know, re redoing things or certain parts of it were just really hard for me to write and, you know, talk about the emotional side of things.

It, that, that side of [00:06:00] things was just really hard for me to do. And it, I kept like dancing around it. Like, Oh yeah, I’ll get to that. I’ll do that tomorrow. I’ll do that, you know, some other day I’ll, you know, I kept pushing it down the road. How did you just push through and just knock it out in that short of time period?

Juan Espinoza: I just faced the pain, honestly, like, in those two days, I was literally bawling my eyes out. So that’s why I had my bottle of whiskey, right? I was, it hurt.

Um, it was, you know, I felt like it was a hundred therapy sessions in just two days. Literally just overwhelming. And A lot of, during that time, I remember a, uh, brother to me, is basically he told me, you know, I see greatness in you, you’re a risk taker.

So, I think of that, and I just kept writing. And, after the fact, it was, like, weight was lifted. Cause everything I’ve been carrying all these years, just, it’s not gone. It just didn’t hurt as much anymore. It’s like, The effect of power that I had over it literally [00:07:00] very transformative, I guess you would say.

Scott DeLuzio: I’ve heard that from other art forms, if you will where people who, They’re like, I don’t want to talk about this, you know, that this is just too painful. I don’t want to put into words that the pain that I’m feeling or the experiences that I had. And they end up creating these masterpieces of art, you know, whether it’s a sculpture or painting or, you know, some other form of expressing themselves.

And then people start looking at it and talking about it and It gets them to sort of open up a little bit about it and describe why they made the thing the way they made it and It’s healing in very much similar way to what you were just describing that they don’t have that fear of Talking about this anymore.

It doesn’t hold that weight over them anymore and it allows them to Be able to face those demons that have been [00:08:00] playing them for so long and it’s interesting how that happens Where you may be at that point where you have this You come to the end of your rope almost and you have this moment where it’s like I just need to get this out and here it is and you knock it out in two days and Now all of a sudden You’re in a better place than you were just two days two days earlier, right?

Juan Espinoza: Definitely, you know, I tell people I feel like I was enlightened.

I guess you would say like the big part of that was just facing everything directly.

You That’s a big part of growing is the facing that pain and, you know, turn that pain to purpose. And I think the big thing that we don’t do is we, if we bury it, right.

You know, pain, It needs to be felt, it’s not if it’s going to be felt, it’s when it’s going to be felt. And I think that’s very important and that also ties into self reflection. So throughout every lesson I’ve learned, I basically looked at [00:09:00] it from a different perspective and I was able to understand good I did, the bad I did, but also the big point where a lot of people don’t know or don’t realize it’s what you didn’t do.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Juan Espinoza: So I, I see it as an equation. It’s just, you know, it’s 50 percent of the good and bad, but it’s also 50 percent it’s what you didn’t do. Maybe cause you didn’t know how to maybe didn’t want to, or the fact that you’re just didn’t know. And I think that’s a big part of growing is realizing like, yeah, you did good and bad, but there’s a lot of things you didn’t do that you probably should have.

So I think that’s very important. But also when you, Create these masterpieces, right? You know, the masterpieces you’re talking about as well, even books,

when you’re able to open up and share the good and the bad, it makes people see you very authentic, but also when you share that vulnerability with the world, it creates [00:10:00] a safe space for other people to share their story with the world.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Yeah. And that, that is an important thing because we, in your vulnera vulnerability I’m struggling with that word this morning, in your v vulnerability, the the other people who maybe read the words that you’ve written or look at the painting that you’ve painted, or the sculpture that you sculpted.

They look at these things and they say, well, hell, if that person can do it, why can’t I do it? And there starts to become a bit of that transformation that you were talking about earlier with yourself. A bit of that transformation starts to occur, maybe, in that person’s own mind, and Where they might have looked at themselves as well.

I’m not good enough to do something like that. I’m not a good enough writer I’m not a good enough painter. I’m not a good enough. Whatever The thing is that they’re looking at but then they hear a story [00:11:00] from Someone like me or someone like you who, we were both grunts. We weren’t you know, the top of the food chain as far as intelligence scale goes on the entry test or anything like that.

But you know, not to say that we couldn’t be, but we still wrote books and Why not somebody else? Why can’t somebody else write a book? You talked about turning pain into purpose. That was something that you said before. And I think that’s an interesting way to look at it. And I wanted to dig into that a little bit more because we all experience pain and people out there who will take a painful experience, regardless of what it is, and it either will control them.

And dictate the rest of their life, or they’ll use that for something better. They’ll use that as fuel to grow, to become something, transform into [00:12:00] something better than what they were. And. I thought that’s a pretty interesting concept the way you described it you know, do you have any examples or you know, anything that you can share with the listeners who might be able to take away a little bit more from that concept?

Juan Espinoza: This is definitely a very important concept and a lot of people don’t want to talk about it, but I believe it’s a very needed. And I think that’s a really good topic that we need to talk about, especially with the, this, the military community as well as just anybody in general that experiences pain. We all do. But I think it’s important, you know, I have two very good questions. I always tell people after I speak with them I’ll tell you one right now is pain as a teacher, was it teaching me? And that’s just think about it in general, right? You know, let’s say you broke your leg, it hurt. Well, what did pain teach you?

Maybe don’t do what you did to break your leg.

That’s not a good idea. Let’s just say, you know, you had a love one that passed, [00:13:00] right? It’s a very painful experience. What did it teach you? The value of life, the value of not taking people for granted or the value of being in the moment with people, right? I think that’s a very important thing. We have to reflect on those things. Let’s just say, you know, for me, my divorce and You know, being cheated on or whatnot. I realized that the value of forgiveness and auth authenticity, but as well as learning that you can’t dictate what other people do to you, but

you can dictate how you perceive it and what you learn from it.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Juan Espinoza: So I think that’s a big thing, is if we can not only learn from good times, but also learn from the pain and the bad times. You can’t be broken.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Because your mindset, your attitude turns to a mindset of growth and. [00:14:00] Looking for the positive out there in the future. How do I make that future a better future? How do I make it into, you know, something to be proud of, to look back on as like, Hey, I did, I came out of that okay. Yeah, it was a tough situation.

I would make some other people crumble and here I am. You know, turn this into something better you know, like, like you said even something as Devastating as a loss of a loved one You know, you come out on the other side with a greater appreciation for the value of life a lot of times that Loss will be the thing that Cripple someone or defines that person and they can’t move past it.

And not to say that you need to, you know, just move on and forget about that person or anything like that. Because that’s certainly not what I’m suggesting here. But maybe it gives you a greater appreciation, like [00:15:00] you said, for the value of life. And you don’t squander or waste away the opportunities that you have with the other people who are in your life.

And I think that’s a There’s a big difference between someone who lets that loss define them and someone who looks at that and says, you know what, I’m going to go, I’m going to appreciate those people who are around me just a little bit more today because of what I learned from that. And that’s a huge lesson, I think.

Juan Espinoza: Definitely. Especially it’s easy to go down that rabbit hole, right? It’s easy to Succumb to pain. That’s You can do that It’s harder to face it. I think that’s a big part is You know, no one wants to feel hurt. No one wants to

feel the pain. No one does like it sucks but when you do that you Change the way you view things they change the way you’re able to you know, you’re push Those limits you have, it goes a little bit further because now you [00:16:00] combat that directly and it’s no longer holding that control over you. I think that’s a big thing. It’s, I remember a speech I gave and the first line was, If I can tell you one word, I can’t, trying to think of exactly how I worded it, but it was, What if I could tell you I can change your life with one word? Would you believe me? And would say the same thing, it sounds crazy, like no way, no way, one word can change someone’s life, and the word was perspective. If you look at things from a different perspective, you can always learn something from it.

And I think that’s very important that we address that, it’s take yourself out of your shoes and how you’re feeling, and maybe put yourself in the other person’s shoes, or maybe take yourself out of the equation entirely and look at it from a third person’s perspective. How do the, how does the situation change?

And you’ll notice that dramatically when you do that.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, there’s a, like an old cartoon that I [00:17:00] remember seeing, and there’s, Two people looking down on the ground and on the ground from one person’s perspective was number six and from the other person’s perspective it was a number nine and they’re arguing over what number was written on the ground and the thing is both of them were right and because in their point of view one of them it was a six one of them it was a nine and they’re both right and so if you can I know that’s a simple example, but if you can take yourself out of that situation and look at it from a third party perspective, because right now I’m that third party looking at it and saying, yeah, you guys are both right.

This is kind of stupid that you’re arguing over this silly number that’s on the ground, but if you could take yourself out of that situation and look at. Whatever the situation is that you’re dealing with, because obviously you’re probably not going to be arguing over a number written on the ground.

But if you can look at whatever the situation is from a third party point of view, [00:18:00] objectively, without injecting your own emotions or, you know, feelings or anything like that into it you’ll probably get to a lot greater place of understanding than If you’re just digging your heels in and being stubborn and saying, no, the way I’m perceiving this situation is the way it is.

Right. And probably can avoid a whole lot of heartache and troubles and arguments and things like that. If we can come to those realizations sooner than later. Right.

Juan Espinoza: Exactly. I think that’s a big thing. It’s part of growth is changing your perspective. You know, let’s say you’re in a relationship and let’s say you and your spouse are arguing over, taking out the trash, right? She told you to take out the trash two minutes ago, you stole or do whatever you’re going to, now she’s upset, right?

For you, you’re upset, you’re like, why is this a big deal, right? Then, but you put yourself in her shoes. Maybe she had done a bunch of [00:19:00] things around the house or she stressed out and that’s an outlet. So for her, it’s like, you don’t appreciate me or you don’t believe in what I’m saying or you don’t respect my word towards you. That’s maybe what she’s feeling. So if you basically take yourself out of the equation and you look, okay, what are you doing? What is she doing? You know, maybe taking out the trash is a minor thing, but that minor thing can learn, turn to a big thing.

If you just want to dig your heels in and continue doing what, you know, maybe you have that talk and that’s where you change your perspective.

Like, you know, I’m sorry, you know, I noticed you lash out over this trash can or this trash, but what’s really going on? That’s where you basically change the situation entirely.

Scott DeLuzio: Right, right. And it takes a power away from the garbage bag that you didn’t bring out to the street or, you know, whatever it takes a power away from that. And it, and because ultimately, I think anybody right now, objectively can say, yeah, at the end of the day, that trash probably isn’t really that big of a deal.

But we [00:20:00] can look at it and say, there’s probably something else going on. Like maybe in that situation, she had asked, You to do several other chores that still are undone. And it’s like, well, now we’re just adding one more thing on a pile of things that you’re just ignoring and not doing. And then, okay, the bigger issue is you’re really not giving any weight to what she’s asking you to do.

And you’re prioritizing other things over the things that she’s asking you to do. And maybe take 10 minutes out of your day and go do a couple of those things that. She asked you to do so that way she feels like she’s valued and respected and a contributing member of this household, you know, so it doesn’t seem like she’s just an afterthought.

Right. And in that perspective shift could be the difference between having a full blown argument. Over a garbage bag or coming to some understanding and saying, Hey, you know what, you know, maybe I’ll [00:21:00] do a little better in terms of paying attention to things that she’s asking for you know, that those could be Significant things in any relationship really because we’re right now we’re talking about, you know, a household type thing This could be anywhere.

This could be at work. This could be in school. This could be With your neighbors it could be with a whole Series of different people that you may interact with on a day to day basis. And you know, largely these things happen in the home because we just happen to be around our family members a whole lot more than other people.

So that just, by default, it’s going to end up being more of an issue at home. But you know, really you can apply this anywhere, right?

Juan Espinoza: Exactly. So a big thing is war happens when we don’t talk

either a war in Afghanistan or a relationship, or even a war within ourselves. The minute we stop talking, that’s when it happens. So if you just talk and shift from that perspective of being right, or trying to be right all the [00:22:00] time to a perspective of growth, then you can solve things together, right?

You know, a big thing it’s in a relationship. You know, my brother in law says all the time, it takes two to tango. So I agree, right? It comes to that balance and act, but if you go from that perspective of, you know, they’re just talking to me because they want to be right versus they’re talking to me because they genuinely want to understand and grow. People tend to open up and you can achieve a lot more things that way when you’re actually talking from a genuine perspective.

Scott DeLuzio: And another thing too, just to add onto that is that communication is a two way street. And yeah, talking is obviously one big piece of it, being able to communicate that way. Or writing, whatever the means of communication, but also listening or receiving that message is the other end of it.

And, you know, I could be talking to you right now [00:23:00] and you could be having a, you know, half a dozen other things going on in your mind and you’re just daydreaming and you’re off and. You know, some other world because you’re, you got a lot going on in your world. And I could be asking you a question and then you’re like, can you say that again?

I don’t even know what you said. And then like, I’m going to feel like, you know, what the hell’s with this guy? You know? And like that is not the way that you want a conversation to happen. You know, especially in a relationship where it’s like, you’re just not paying attention to the person.

Yeah, sure. Every once in a while, we’re going to get distracted by something. And. You’re going to miss something that, that gets said, but if you make it a habit of this, and this is like on a regular basis where you’re constantly having to go back and ask that person, like, yeah, what did you say?

I wasn’t really listening. That person’s going to feel like they’re doing all of the communicating and you’re not receiving on your end and they’re going to get pretty frustrated. And that’s not a great place to be either. You know?

Juan Espinoza: Exactly. It’s, you know, a big thing is the honest truth is the best truth you I think that’s very [00:24:00] important. People just sometimes they just want to be told what they want to hear. So, you know, if you don’t tell them that they’re just really telling you out there. It’s like, okay, whatever.

I remember I was talking to somebody and she said, you know, she told the person she was seeing at the time, like, you know, I love them or I love you, but she didn’t mean it that way.

She more like, I have love for you,

but it came out, I love you. And they said, you know, That’s nice, or something like that, right? You know, obviously that stings,

right? So I told her, I was like, would you rather him lie? Would you rather have that?

It’s not the honest truth though, right? You know, I think that’s a big part of you know, growth is communicating but also actively listening and from, and being genuine, right? You know, you we all have things going on in our worlds but if you want to grow in a relationship you have to have that two way street you gotta communicate but you also have to listen and Take in what they’re saying.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you had mentioned earlier, [00:25:00] um, you know, divorcing getting, being in a divorce situation and you know, having other, let’s just call it heartbreak kind of situations in your life. Right. And then I feel like I’ve fortunately never been in that situation, but you know, other situations where there’s heartbreak could be a loss of somebody.

It could be, you know, a loss of a job. It could be a loss of, you know, all sorts of things. There’s some rebuilding that needs to take place after that rebuilding your self worth. Just trying to figure out. Who am I? Where am I? And how do I fit back into this whole equation? What are some steps that you took or other people could take to start this Rebuilding this healing process.

Juan Espinoza: The very important thing everybody should do is self reflection, right? When I mentioned earlier talking about what you did good, what you did bad, but what you didn’t do,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Juan Espinoza: you know, that’s when in my divorce, I mentioned that. And I normally, I would normally just [00:26:00] be like, okay, well I did good and I did bad.

Right. So, but I was getting like good answers, but there was a, when I actually asked myself, what didn’t I do? That’s when that, to me, actually stuck

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Juan Espinoza: because you’re seeing, you know, things like for my marriage, for instance, you know, I was so focused on being the provider as a male, as a head of household, that’s your job to provide material wise, house, clothes, food, and I left out the emotional aspect of a relationship, right?

I was just focused on money. I didn’t focus on the emotional impact. And. Having these conversations, right, you know, communicate, I’m totally zoned out because I’m thinking about the bills need to be paid, how much work I need to do or stuff like that. And that hard look in the mirror

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Juan Espinoza: gave me that growth that I’ve never seen before.

Right. And

then it goes to my last relationship where that was devastating to me. [00:27:00] I was focused on. The emotional impact, not the physical impact, right? So I did it past backwards. I learned from that as well,

Right, You know, this is what I’m doing, right? This I’m doing wrong, but this is what I’m not doing. But it’s that hard look in the mirror can heal you. If you actually want to look and it’s going to be tough. Right, because everybody thinks I did everything right. Yeah. Well, no, you didn’t

or you didn’t do a lot of stuff That you probably should have

but at least if you learn from that, that’s when you can heal A big part of what I recommend is people just write it down It’s easier to analyze when you write it down, right? Let’s just say you’re in You know, let’s just say a work situation, right? Your boss said do this You got upset Write down, okay, what did he say? What did you say? Why do you feel that way? There’s an underlying reason behind that. And when you’re actually able to read it and be like, oh damn. It’s not because of what he said, it’s because I don’t [00:28:00] feel appreciated here.

I’m overworked.

I’m not respected. Same thing in a relationship, right? What did you do right? Okay, well, I did all this. She said this and this happened. Now you can see, well, it wasn’t that one issue you thought it was. It’s actually something different. And when you write things down, I’m not saying you have to go write a book, you know, write it down in a journal.

You can burn it after. As long as you see it and face it, that’s when you’ll grow and that’s when you’ll start to rebuild.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, it’s actually really interesting to me how writing something down it can have such a powerful impact on you. Just as a personal example in a therapy session that I was in there, there’s a whole lot of talking going on and everything. And the therapist said, you know, as a homework assignment, I want you to go home and write down.

All the things that we were talking about today and write down in as much detail as you can, as much detail as you can remember. And [00:29:00] the strange thing was that in the writing process, as I was sitting there writing, other things were coming into my mind about whatever that, that scenario was. I don’t want to get into all the details cause it’s not really relevant to the conversation, but More details were starting to come in.

I was remembering certain things that happened that I didn’t really remember before I started writing it down and I was floored by this phenomena that was happening to me and I did a little research and try to figure out like why is it that I remembered so much more when I was writing versus when I was talking.

And it’s because you slow down when you’re writing. You can’t write as fast as you talk. Like if I was to write everything I just said, the last, you know, few sentences that I spoke, I’d still be writing. And I was able to speak them so much faster. And now my brain is thinking, okay, what’s the next thing I need to say so that I don’t have big, long gaps in the [00:30:00] conversation here, right?

I need to fill the space here. But when I’m writing, I can only write so fast and that gives my brain more time to process the things that I’m writing about right now. I don’t need to think about what that next sentence is going to be quite yet, because I’m still on the sentence that I’m writing.

And it gives me just that much more time to process all of that. And I think to your point, what you’re talking about is that you just get so much more clarity. about whatever it is that you’re writing about. And again, you don’t have to write a book. You can be in a journal that you burn afterwards, for all I care.

But, it’s just a strange thing with the physical act of writing something. Picking up a pen and paper and just writing. And it’s so much different than even writing a book where you’re maybe typing on a keyboard. That, that may be similar, but I don’t, I think it’s still better to just pen and paper, [00:31:00] pick it up and start writing, right?

Juan Espinoza: I, I agree. It’s a lot of, it’s similar to when you call somebody or you text somebody, send them an email versus you write them a letter,

right? It’s very old school and people don’t do that nowadays,

but it has more meaning behind

it. You know, you’re able to put more detail, but also I think when you mentioned that about you remembering so much more detail, you know, it’s always been there in your mind.

It’s always been there and now you’re actually processing it.

Okay. That’s where I believe that power shift changes from it controlling you versus you controlling it,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm

Juan Espinoza: And learning, now you can reflect and read about what you wrote, like, Whoa, I didn’t think I remember that. Or, it actually made me feel this way, and when I wrote it, like, that’s how I feel. And that’s when you’re able to grow and heal by analyzing what happened from a different perspective. And you’re writing it down, and you see it now, and you’re like, damn. Maybe I was an asshole or maybe [00:32:00] I gave in too much, right?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah and especially those times when We’ve all had these, I think, probably when we just wanted to dig our heels in, like, No, I’m right about this situation, 100%. Like, you can’t convince me otherwise. But if you slow down, and again, that perspective shift, where you are looking at it from a third party objective point of view, sometimes when you’re writing, other details are starting to come in, and you start to say, Well, Maybe I wasn’t completely wrong, but maybe I wasn’t completely right either with the way the situation, you know, was handled.

And or maybe I was completely wrong and I didn’t even realize certain things until you start writing it out. But I think part of the writing piece of this for anyone who’s out there, who’s listening is. Going into it with an open mind to not going into it to prove that you’re right, or prove that this other person is wrong or whatever.

[00:33:00] Because if that’s the way you’re going into it, you’re probably going to come out with the, you might as well skip the exercise. You’re going to come out with what you were setting out to do anyways, because you’re. Your mind is just so set in its ways that this is the way it’s going to be. I think you have to go into it with an open mind where you’re willing to accept the fact that maybe I don’t remember everything or I’m not thinking of everything quite the way that it went down, right?

Juan Espinoza: Exactly just think of it like a like a court case, right? Don’t write it like you’re a prosecutor trying to convict somebody

or a defense attorney trying to defend somebody Write it like you’re the judge or the jury you’re getting both sides

and now Try to dig in your heels when you know both sides now might get a little more difficult.

Try to say you’re

right when not so much,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, right, right. You know, I know from, Just the tons of people that I’ve interviewed on this show and my own personal [00:34:00] experiences. I feel like a lot of times we find strength in how much we can carry, how much of these issues that we can take with us you know, and not being vulnerable and letting people know, Hey I’m having a problem with something.

And it’s like, well, I’ll just take this on and I’ll just suck it up and I’ll deal with it. You know, the be a man attitude. You know, but there’s some strength, we talked a little bit about this, there’s some strength in being vulnerable and sharing that though, and I think there’s there’s a piece of that where if we are writing these things down, and let’s say we got into an argument with somebody and we’re sure we’re right, they’re sure they’re right, and you know, and then we write these things down and get a little bit of clarity here, and Wait, maybe I’m not, maybe I’m not right.

Maybe they are in this situation. I think there’s some strength [00:35:00] there in, or requires some strength to be able to go to that person and say, you know what? I’m sorry. I was wrong. And being vulnerable in that way is not an easy thing to do, but I think it’s necessary for that healing process to take place, right?

Juan Espinoza: definitely. Yeah, people think vulnerability is a weakness to me. It’s a strength

to me. It is way harder to be vulnerable than that. To not be vulnerable Sort of speak but you know for it for example, like when I wrote my book and my sister’s read it and they cried Family cried, I’ve had people I deployed with just like we’re like damn dude.

I had no idea In that moment alone, but me being vulnerable the good and the bad me has more of an impact than, oh yeah, he’s deployed five times, right? Okay,

cool. You know, he’s been overseas. He done combat stuff. Yeah, that’s cool. But actually sharing the vulnerability in those situations and just [00:36:00] life in general, to me has created more of an impact than I’ve ever done with military service

because now it’s allowing other people to be vulnerable and heal themselves just by talking with me. You know, I think that’s a big part of growth is just being vulnerable to yourself and realize. You know, life is hard as it is, so you don’t need to be hard on yourself. Like, it’s okay.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that’s right. But we do a really good job at being hard on ourselves, right? It’s just a strange thing. And it’s like everyone I talk to, we all do it to ourselves. But there’s really no reason for it. I don’t think anyways, maybe there is and I’m missing something, but.

Juan Espinoza: Oh, I agree. Like, I would think the same thing. Like, yeah, just be so hard on yourself, then you take a step back, and you’re like, look at everything that’s happening in the world,

right? It doesn’t matter just in general, we go political or not political. It doesn’t matter. There’s so much things that are happening that like why you need to be hard on yourself like life’s, you know Eggs are 45 for eggs.

Like

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, right. Yeah, I know. [00:37:00] Not to brag, but I, you know, I did buy some, like, eggs this weekend. So, you know, I’m doing okay.

Juan Espinoza: Yeah, it’s a flex

Scott DeLuzio: It’s a little bit of a flex.

Juan Espinoza: you get you got your Bentley I got some eggs

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. Nice watch. I got a dozen eggs over here. All right.

Juan Espinoza: Yeah, I agree. But I think it’s important to just the fact that, you know, everybody’s so hard on themselves, especially, you know, military people as well. You know, I’m so, I’m a hardened warrior,

right? You know, all the time. Like, dude, first of all, we’re not in Afghanistan. So like pump the brakes, right?

You know, like I get it.

You be strong. I get that. Be a rock. I understand that too. But also, you know, Part of that rock is knowing that your family can come up to you, your spouse, your children come up to you when they’re having a hard time and know dad’s not going to just tell them to suck it up and move on,

right? You know, also to, it allows them to be vulnerable with you and, but when you do that, you become your true self, your authentic self by doing that.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And that’s a good point too, because especially if [00:38:00] you have kids. Who, that, you know, let’s face it, we’re all trying to figure out the world. They’re a little further behind than we are. And they’re coming to you for help, for advice, and you’re telling them just to suck it up.

That’s really your way of saying to them, I really don’t want to hear your crap right now. And that’s not really a great Positive role model kind of message that you want to give to your kids. Right. So, you know, maybe help them through it and help let them know that they can come to you with the problems that they’re having.

And, you know, maybe if that’s the way that you have always been and just suck it up and deal with it it’s going to take some time for them to know that, Hey, yeah, I guess I can go talk to dad or talk to mom or whoever about. But it, I think as a leader, you know, as a parent, we are leaders we have to lead by example and show them that it’s okay to talk about things, being [00:39:00] vulnerable, you know, even with your kids, you know, yeah, sure.

Maybe you want to shield them from certain. Things and maybe certain things aren’t necessarily 100 percent appropriate to talk about, you know, around, around the kids, but you can still share with them and let them know, Hey, I’m having this, having that, you know, whatever. And you know, it’s, let’s talk about it and let them know that, Hey, they can do that too, you know, and it’s something that they can come to you and feel safe and comfortable being able to do that.

I think it’s important.

Juan Espinoza: Exactly. It’s a balancing act, right? It’s

easy to go one way or the other,

right? It’s easy to just like, hey, tough it up, move on, right? To me, that’s the easy route versus that balance where now you’re expressing that vulnerability and allowing them to be safe with you and to express their vulnerabilities, right?

Knowing that their parent is not going to tell them, you know, tough it up. It’s That’s that balancing act that I think we can [00:40:00] break, you know, it’s a generational thing. I get that. Like we, I grew up, just suck it up, move

on. Right.

Scott DeLuzio: Rub some dirt in it.

Juan Espinoza: Yeah, exactly. You’d be fine. And you can still do that. Right. You can still bring those tough lessons to your children, but also the tough lesson as well as when you talk to them and through vulnerability and allows them to navigate, you know, The complexity of life in general, and when we do that, we break that generational cycle.

We break that cycle. So when they have their kids and, you know, future generations, now they know this is how to be a parent or this is how to be a good leader is to embrace both sides.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, and so just as an example, this is not an emotional example necessarily, but you know, just my son, this is probably eight or nine years ago now. He was playing on the playground and. Like kids do. They fall all the time. They trip they slip off things, whatever.

And [00:41:00] he’s, you know, pretty tough kid and pretty resilient. He bounced back off, off of things like that. And there, there was this one time he slipped off the monkey bars and he fell, and the way you fell, he landed on his arm and he got up and you could see the tears in his eyes. And he was like in a lot of pain and.

I saw that, and it was a different thing that I’ve ever seen in him before. This wasn’t like an emotional pain or anything like that, this was definitely a physical pain, the way he fell. And, you know, usually, I was the type of dad, I was just like, you know what? Tough, you know, tough it out, you know, you’re tough, you can get back out there and play.

Yeah sit down for a little bit until you feel a little bit better, and then go back and play. But I saw this, like, change in him, it was like a different kind of pain. And I was like, You know what? There’s something wrong. Let’s figure it out and let’s look at it. Turns out he broke his arm and you know, but if I was just the type of father who was just like, you know.[00:42:00]

Yeah, go tough it out and get back out there, rub some dirt in it, but that type of thing, he’d be out there playing, thinking that it’s okay to go play with a broken arm and like, it totally wasn’t okay to do. And so that balancing act of sometimes, yeah maybe show them to be a little bit more resilient and not cry over every little bump and bruise, but also know when to reign that in and.

And say, you know what, there’s something bigger going on here and we need to be able to to figure that out. And I’m using that as an analogy because you can apply that to. mental or emotional pain as well. There’s going to be those little minor inconveniences that sometimes you might want to just go run and cry.

Well, okay, sometimes you might need to just suck it up and deal with it because not everybody’s going to be the nicest person in the world to you. That’s just human nature, you know, there’s jerks out there. But then there’s going to be other times when, yeah, you [00:43:00] really need some, a shoulder to cry on.

And. Hell yeah, I’m going to be there. You know, that’s you’re talking about being a provider. You know, it’s more than just a financial provider or a security like a Protection provider. It’s that emotional providing as well. That’s super important.

Juan Espinoza: Definitely, I think that’s, it’s, when you learn and you come from a place of being genuine and I do like an active listening, but also you’re noticing the non verbal things. The same with my daughter, right? You know, sometimes she comes from school and I’m like, Hey, you know, how’s your day? And then she’s like, yeah, you know, it was good. And then you just look in the eyes like, boom. I was like, okay, what’s on, what’s going on? Oh, nothing. What’s going on? And she’ll tell me,

okay, we’ll talk about it, right? It’s you know, most people are just like, okay, you’re she said nothing’s going on. I’m taking her word for it But you can notice that look the shifts in people’s body [00:44:00] either eyes or the way they talk or Just the body language, right?

You are actively trying to learn and Genuinely listening. So things like that can bring that balance between you fell. I need a band aid. Do you really need a band aid?

Let’s get a scab up in like two minutes. You’ll be fine.

Get out of

Scott DeLuzio: right, right, right

Juan Espinoza: Versus like breaking your arm, right, you know, he probably what we you know as Kids, they see us like suck things up.

So you break arm, you could try to like tough it out, but you know, like, Oh, he’s in pain.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Juan Espinoza: we’re going to fix this.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. And that’s one of those things you don’t want to just, ah, you know what? Yeah we’ll let it, we’ll let it go for, you know, a week or two and then like, ah, well, I guess maybe we’ll go see the doctor now. Now it’s all crooked and jacked up and everything. It’s like, that’s not the kind of thing that you want to just brush into the rug and forget about, you know?

But I think, you know, ultimately [00:45:00] what we’re talking about here, it’s really coming down to this mindset. Right. of being a little bit more open to other people’s needs and wants and desires and the things that other people around us have going on. And I think especially for veterans, combat veterans, a lot of times the guys that I talked to, the ladies I talked to, we have a tough time.

Getting out of our own way and seeing that somebody else may be having a problem that, again, talk about perspective, in their world, this is a big problem to, to them to have and to us, where we’ve dealt with death, we’ve dealt with you know, living in Really crappy conditions and we’ve dealt with all these other things.

That problem, that’s a big problem to somebody else. It seems like a big nothing to us. And so we just don’t even give it the [00:46:00] time of day that it deserves. And that to the, that other person who’s dealing with something in their world is a big issue. They’re looking at us like, what a jerk. You know, how could you not think that this is a big deal?

And again, taking that step out. From that situation, look at it from a third party point of view, look at it as if you’re the judge or the jury or whoever who’s trying to you know, decide the facts of a case and look at it from that person’s point of view put yourself in their shoes and say, you know, well, maybe this is actually a big deal you know, especially when you’re dealing with kids you know, to them Everything’s a big deal, you know, as life happens to them because they haven’t had time to experience life you know, the way that, that maybe we have.

And when they’re dealing with all these different things you know, it’s helpful to inject your own point of view and help them understand that, you know, yeah, right now it might [00:47:00] seem like it’s a big deal, but you know what, you’ll get through this and you’ll be better off for it. Based on using that resilience mindset that you’re talking about.

Right.

Juan Espinoza: Exactly. It’s definitely come from a position of growth, listening, but also experience. Right. You

know, for us, we’ve dealt with it before, so it’s really not a big deal. Well, yeah, it sucks. Don’t get me wrong, but like, it’s not, the impact is not as. difficult to handle versus what kids it’s the first time they’re experiencing this they have no idea, but if you Listen to them

and actually come from your experience and tell them maybe some situations you’ve been in

and how you came back from that But also knowing the fact that like, you know If you need to cry like if you don’t cry in front of people go in the bathroom cry go in the shower Right, you’re taking a shower and you’re crying.

You don’t know if you’re crying or not because you’re in the shower,

Right. You can’t tell but That’s the big, the shift, right? It’s that perspective. And I think especially with [00:48:00] veterans, right? Males predominantly or just males in general, right?

It’s, they don’t want to cry. That’s weak. Some, you know, you know, that’s the woman energy, I guess you would say, but it’s really not, it’s literally if the people you’re around judge you for crying, you might want to evaluate the people you’re around,

right? I think that’s a big thing is. We have to put ourself in a situation to be genuine with ourselves as well as others. It’s always easy to help people or it’s easier to not be yourself and help others. But all at the same time, you have to understand that when people are taking advantage of you or you don’t fit in the situation where you got to back out.

So I don’t love you. It’s not that I don’t care. It’s just this situation is not fitting for me. Or maybe you’re not the person. I can be around or your lifestyle is not aligning with mine.

Right. And that’s a big thing is understanding [00:49:00] your own boundaries. And that’s where, you know, boundaries are very important, especially when it comes to family. Cause people think, well, family’s everything, you know, they can, it doesn’t matter. I was like, I think it comes, I think it comes down to effort, right? You put effort to me, I put effort towards you, but. We do, we’ve been around friends or family that take advantage,

be able to come around when they need something. Maybe setting a boundary with that will help you be happier,

you know, to understand your worth and to respect yourself by setting those boundaries. But I think if we to people with experience and just, just, listen to them. You’re like, what’s going on, you know? Tell me everything

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Juan Espinoza: and then don’t be like, well, I’ve been through this, so you’ll be fine.

Like, no, relax.

Scott DeLuzio: right. Right. You talked a little bit about your book earlier. Tell us a little bit more about the book and you know, like what, where where you were [00:50:00] envisioning it going, like when you were taking those two days to write it out what were you hoping to get out of it?

Were you hoping to actually get a book out of it? Or were you you know, and what are some of the things that people can expect to find from it?

Juan Espinoza: So with my book, it was, I wanted to share my story, but also I wanted people to reflect on their lives in my story. So it’s not just my story. It’s our story, right?

So in my book, so it basically goes from like childhood goes from. Military, marriage, last relationship, divorce, and then it goes to lessons I’ve learned.

So it’s like a two part series, two part book, I guess you would say. The first part is like my life. My life is basically just like up to my last relationship, and then the second part that’s in the book, it’s more like, okay, other things like emotional intelligence, like how did I learn that or what did I see based on my life,

right? And I have a lot of different sections on that. throughout my book, there’s a lot of [00:51:00] reflective pauses because I want people to think about their story while they’re reading mine.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Juan Espinoza: So I think that’s a very important part and a lot of people that read my book, they love the reflective pauses part because it basically, it’s not just like at the end of the chapter, it’s like mid chapter or it can be like two pages in, boom, reflective pause.

Like here’s three questions, think about it. And it made them start reflecting on their own story. So that was the big thing with my book. I didn’t just want to be just about me and like my life. I just wanted to help other people see how I navigated

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Juan Espinoza: and maybe how this can apply to you in the same aspect and write your own story.

Cause we all have a story.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah, we do. We all do have a story and I like that reflective pause piece because I know sometimes I’ll be reading something or listening to a podcast or, you know, watch a video or something and someone will say something or it’ll be written in a way [00:52:00] that gets me thinking about something in my own life.

Like I, I try to do that Yeah. reflective pause. And I find myself drifting off into now I’m in my world right now. And, you know, especially if I’m like listening to a podcast I’ve missed like the next five minutes of whatever it was they’re talking about, because now I’m in my own head.

But giving time for that reflective pause, where that’s built in to the book it gives that person the opportunity to sit there and think to themselves. How does this apply to me? So it’s not, again, like you said, it’s not just your story, it’s everybody’s story. And you can make it the way you want to, you know, based on what you do with those reflective pauses.

Juan Espinoza: Definitely, actually,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Those

Juan Espinoza: here. I’ll throw an example of my reflective pause. Cause a lot of people just be like, well, you know, he’s like, Oh, think about your story. But I throw a question in there. You know, [00:53:00] I talk about siblings in one of them right here. It’s just, if you have siblings, how have they influenced your life?

Something like that, right. Or what lessons have you learned from your family’s relationships and what ways have the sacrifices of your siblings or family members shaped the perspective on life, things like that. Right. So it’s always good. You know, that says that’s just boom at a sibling part in my book.

So it’s always good to have a journal because I’ll throw these questions in there and yes, stop reading, start writing,

you know. Do your story. And then you get back to it. Now it makes people think, okay, this is how, you know, he had his lessons. He learned, like, what lessons have I learned?

right.

So I think that’s why I put that in the book because I want people to share their own story, reflecting on their own life.

Like, I’m not Bill Gates or, you know, I’m not Tony Robbins. Right. But that’s a big thing with, you know, being an author. I didn’t think I could be an author because I was like, no one knows me. Like, I’m not, you know, Still team six over here. [00:54:00] So, but I was like, I’m just going to do it. So

that’s why I wrote my book.

It’s one healed myself. It helped me on like a crazy level, very transformative change, but also I wanted to help others as well.

So that’s why I wrote my book.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, that’s certainly a noble cause, trying to help other people. And you know, that’s what we’re trying to do here with this show. Definitely want people to get the help that they need. But I think, you know, with a book that’s structured the way yours is I think that’s a that’s an awesome thing because it gets people to, I was going to say get out of their head, but it’s no, it’s more like they need to get into their head and dig into their own personal stories and their own personal experiences and you allow them to do that.

A lot of times when we read a book or listen to a podcast or whatever it’s a very passive activity. Reading isn’t. as [00:55:00] much passive because you actually have to physically be doing something to read the book. But, a lot of times you’re just taking in the information that’s coming from the book and you’re not really processing it, doing anything with that information.

But if you’re able to read some of that information, then there’s that prompt. Like, how does this apply to you? That I think helps immensely with retaining the information from the book and applying some of those lessons. So, you know, I think, you know, especially for the listeners who may have you know, relationship issues, maybe feeling like they’re just not fitting in in certain circumstances you know, it’s, these are all big issues that veterans have to face sometimes and, you know, this might be a good way for them to help themselves get back to a point where they are you know, fitting in and you know, respecting the other [00:56:00] people that are you know, in their lives as well.

Juan Espinoza: Especially when you, everybody judge a book on his cover. Right. So what do you think about it? Like you’d see, okay, male military. A lot of people think, well, I was in military or maybe I’m not a male. Right. So it’s like, I can’t read that book, but I don’t go crazy in war stories.

Cause that’s not me,

but the book is for anybody,

male, female, probably a little in the teens, like high school. Cause before that, I don’t think those kids. They maybe shouldn’t reflect on that because it gets a little, maybe graphic, but,

or language is a little bad, but so it’s not too crazy though, but it’s anybody because it goes from military to relationships, to parenting, co parenting, divorce, all that’s in the book.

So I think that’s a very important, like anybody can pick it up and they’ll learn something to guarantee it based on that. So you don’t have to be military. to be a veteran. You don’t, you. Don’t have to be a male, you can be a woman. We all have done parenting or have siblings and [00:57:00] we’ve been through some type of pain so it will definitely benefit you if you just pick it up and pause, when you get those reflective pauses and start reflecting on your story and you’ll realize, okay, well, damn, I’ve been Holding this in for a while.

I had no idea I was holding this in until I read this and now he asked me a question Now I got to think about it

Scott DeLuzio: Damn you, right?

Juan Espinoza: Yeah, not right

Scott DeLuzio: Making me think and feel, come on. But yeah, before we, we wrap up, where can people go to find a copy of the book? And we’ll put links in the show notes, but where can people go to find a copy of the book and more information about you?

Juan Espinoza: So books on Amazon Unbroken, you put unbroken Juan Espinoza, boom, it’ll pop up. It’s also on my website, which I basically linked to Amazon So if you go to my website JuanEspinoza. me There’s a link on there. You just click on the book. It directs you right to amazon. It’s kindle and paperback that’s where You can find it easiest. [00:58:00] So it’s only on amazon right now. I’m working on the other platforms, but that takes some time

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah, when I, I did a little research on the other platforms and where people get books. And it was like something stupid, like 80 percent of people are getting their books on Amazon. So I was like, okay, well that’s as far as I’m going. It’s put too much more time and effort in. So, but yeah, so we’ll grab a link to the book and your website and we’ll put those in the show notes for the listeners who want to check that out and find out a little bit more information and.

Grab a copy of that book and pause and reflect on their own situation, their own journey that they may be going through. So, so one, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show today. I really do want to thank you for coming on and sharing your thoughts, your experiences, and you know, everything that you’ve gone through.

I think it’s been a great conversation. So thanks so much.

Juan Espinoza: Thank you so much for having me it was an amazing opportunity for allowing me to share my story with you

Scott DeLuzio: You bet.