Episode 488 Eric Donoho Overcoming Moral Injury Transcript
This transcript is from episode 488 with guest Eric Donoho.
Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] You are back from the fight, but the battle inside hasn’t stopped. The weight of moral injury survivor’s guilt and the transition to civilian life can feel like an impossible climb. But what if there’s a way to reclaim your purpose? What if the struggle could lead you to something greater? Today we sit down with veteran Eric Donoho, who faced the darkest depths, stood at the edge, and found a way forward.
His story goes beyond survival. It’s a journey of transformation, one that reveals the power of resilience, advocacy, and finding a renewed sense of mission. Now, whether you’re searching for hope or a way to help a fellow veteran, this conversation could be the one that changes everything for you. And before we dive in, make sure you’re subscribed at Drive On Podcast dot com slash subscribe.
You’ll get my five favorite episodes sent. straight to your inbox, no fluff. Just the best insights to help you drive on. Now let’s get [00:01:00] into the conversation with Eric.
Hey, Eric, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here. Looking forward to this conversation, but welcome to the show.
Eric Donoho: I really appreciate you having me. I, I, you know, I know podcasts are a lot of work, so I appreciate you giving me this platform to talk about my book and veterans and, and all kinds of things today, I hope.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So, you know, we, we were talking before we started recording. You’re, you’re telling me you were, you’re just in DC doing some work on, on, on the Hill and, you know, advocating for veterans doing, doing what you do, tell us a little bit about your, your background, how you, you know, who you are, like where you got to be where you’re at today.
Eric Donoho: Yeah, so I, you know, for the short end of it, not a long winded answer, I’ll [00:02:00] I’m a retired sergeant from the United States Army. I got retired, medically retired, in 2009 for getting blown up too many times at war. I survived two IEDs, one EFP, and a Katyusha rocket attack. And like most veterans, when you come home, you know, life doesn’t stop, the hits keep coming.
And, you know, somewhere between 2009 and 2015, between a loss of purpose and a loss of hope, I found myself sitting at a kitchen table about to become a statistic of, of veteran suicide. And for whatever reason that day, that, that it didn’t, you know, the, the gun wouldn’t fire. And I’m still here and so after that failed attempt I lost my first platoon sergeant who was number 13 for me to suicide and that was when I realized, you know, I’m still here after all of these things, [00:03:00] there must be some sort of purpose for me, it’s time to start trying to figure out what that is and to dig myself out of this dark hole that I’ve been in for the past, You know, six years.
So in 2016, I started a program with No Barriers Warriors. I went on where it was three successive mountain climbs over the climbing season, each mountain getting harder and harder, and the skill sets you learned on the mountain are meant to give you the tools that you need to, to be able to be successful in life.
And for me, mountains is something that I’ve been doing since I was 19. So it was really therapeutic, not just from, you know, a physical standpoint, because I was overweight and I shape and that, that was the, the crutch to get me back into shape and not be overweight. But it was also really spiritually, it was really amazing for [00:04:00] me to get back into the mountains.
To get back out into nature with nothing around except a group of veterans who are all, you know, dealing with some of the same things that I was And so that path just kind of continued. And during that journey, I learned about a a term called moral injury. I had heard about it years earlier from the chaplain who had married my wife and I.
That was my wife’s best friend. And and she brought it up to me in 2009, but being the grump that I was, I mean, you know, I didn’t, I don’t know, I didn’t really understand it. I was pretty mad at God and the spiritual aspect of the world. So it just kind of went in one ear and out the other. But it was on my first trip with No Barriers where you know, it became front and center that maybe this was something that I, I need to.
Take a look at try to figure out. Is there something that I should be dealing with here and it turned out as the more I researched it [00:05:00] that that was one of one of the drivers of the way that I was feeling. And it also explained why I could be in counseling for so long and not feel like I was getting any better.
So we can dig in on that a little bit and then. You know, fast forward 2018 I got an opportunity to work on the hill as a fellow for Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America advocating for legislation and started with the 988 suicide hotline act and then it just kind of you know, I was hooked from the standpoint that What you’re doing can, can effectively help change the outcome for millions of veterans.
And so when I saw an opportunity where, you know, my values and, and what I saw aligned with legislation [00:06:00] or what veterans needed I would, You know, I still do step up and try to figure out how do we navigate this? How do we get this across the finish line so that veterans can continue to be the the driving force of our, you know So that we can be the next greatest generation.
I think that’s a better way to put it
Scott DeLuzio: That’s a good way to put it. And there are a lot of veterans now serving in Congress and everything that are. I mean, our era, our, our generation of veterans and not to get political with the conversation at all.
Eric Donoho: No, it’s a we we now yeah
Scott DeLuzio: they’re on both sides of
the aisle.
You
Eric Donoho: they are
Scott DeLuzio: that’s, that’s you know, I think an awesome thing is that we got, we have people where traditionally they kind of are on opposite sides of an issue, but. [00:07:00] When it comes to veterans issues, I think a lot, there’s a lot of common ground there, especially amongst the, the veterans who are serving.
And that is, I think pretty powerful because that’s going to help push those things across that, that finish line. Like you were talking about. I’m currently serving as a fellow for the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation, which is
Eric Donoho: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m I can, I can picture his face. I’m drawing the name
Scott DeLuzio: Oh Rod Yeah.
Eric Donoho: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: Rodriguez, Yeah. he’s just a, a, a
Eric Donoho: I don’t know. Like we’ve passed our paths have crossed numerous times, but I don’t know him personally, you know, I don’t have a personal relationship, but great, great guy. And, you know, he deserves honestly been alone.
Lone wolf out there for a lot of years well before any of this picked up traction, walking the halls by himself, trying to make this, this [00:08:00] thing happen.
Scott DeLuzio: and that,
is a tough tough road to, to go down and, and for the folks who don’t know what we’re, we’re talking about there, there’s, and I wasn’t involved from the beginning, I’m only recently involved like the last few months and from what I’ve heard stories from them, the amount of legislation that, that had to, or, or legislators that had to be involved and all the political processes that had to take place, legislation did have to get passed in order for a location for this monument that’s going to be constructed this, all these, these things have to come together and that’s not an easy task, you know, getting out there, pounding the pavement in or I guess the halls of Congress, I suppose,
Eric Donoho: Yeah. Well, I mean both, because, you know, you really have to create the groundswell out in the public. Right.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah, right,
Eric Donoho: you, you also have to You have to do it in Congress. [00:09:00] And so as, as Michael, you know, created the, the relationships that he has with all the VSOs, it was easy to get them on board to, you know, support with the groundswell.
So he wasn’t alone in that necessarily, but for a long time, he was knocking on those doors, getting told, Oh, we’ll help. And, you know, and it’s just the runaround because there were a number. If I’m not mistaken, I, I, you know, I, I don’t know all the details in his app, but I know he had a number of roadblocks, if I’m not mistaken, about even it being on the National Mall, right?
Because there were a number of people who felt like that it shouldn’t be on the National Mall. It should be at a site. You know, kind of separate like the Jefferson Memorial, those sort of things where you just can’t walk from like the Vietnam Memorial, the World War II Memorial, to that very [00:10:00] easily and the site that they ended up getting, I mean, it is
Scott DeLuzio: it’s, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric Donoho: It’s primo man, and and that is all his advocating.
So I yeah
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So, you know, anyways, you know, I, I know, you know, when, when you’re talking about going, going to the Congress and talking to people and, and all the work I know just through that experience, hearing from his side, just, it’s a lot of work.
It’s not like an insignificant thing. Like, Oh yeah, by the way, I just, you know, showed up and talk to someone. It’s like, there’s a lot of things that, that are going on there. Right.
Eric Donoho: It’s a drum beat that is like, I mean, he’s still doing it. Like it’s not done. Right. I mean, you’re going to be up there doing it too. I’m sure at some point being a fellow now. And, and, you know, you got to continue to knock on those doors, you got to continue to let them know where you’re at in the process because the more they’re invested, the easier and smoother it goes when you’re ready to break ground [00:11:00] after the fundraising and all of these different things are going to be more hurdles he has to overcome.
So I’m excited he’s finally being able to get all of you guys on board to help him out.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I’m, I’m excited to be able to help out because I, I was, I’ve told this story before on other platforms, but you know, when I, a few years ago I was in DC and I went for a run around the mall and I stopped at each of the memorials and when I got to the last one, I was like, where the hell is ours, you know, for,
for the global war on terrorism, they’re like, I don’t, I don’t want it to be, you know, 80 years from now when someone finally decides to construct it and we’re all dead,
you know, like
Eric Donoho: Or we got to be flown, or we got to be flown in on the honor fight flights and, and have a younger version of a vet. I’ve, I’ve volunteered to do this numerous times for so there, so if you’re ever in DC and you’re kind of bored in a day, or you’ve got some time, if you’re out there. Their honor flights come in and there are times, like especially around the World War [00:12:00] II memorial, where maybe the vet that came in didn’t have a person to come with them.
And so you volunteer to kind of push them around and, and talk and show them the memorial and those, those opportunities I’ve learned so much from that, those guys and just those brief interactions of about 45 minutes to an hour, mostly about gratitude.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and those guys, I mean, they’re, unfortunately, it’s a, it’s a dying breed. There, there’s not as many of them left as, as there once was, obviously. And it’s great to be able to have that experience and hear some of those stories. And,
Eric Donoho: The Korean War Vets, they got some good ones too. They, I mean, I don’t want to, I don’t want to not sell them out either. You know, they’ve, they’ve got some wisdom to add to the, to the mix too. So that, that’s.
Scott DeLuzio: all those guys got, got some great stories to tell. And, and one of these days we’ll be those old, old guys who need to
be pushed around and we’ll have some stories to tell too, I’m sure. [00:13:00] And I, want to get into that, into your story right now. And you know, you mentioned moral injury as one of those things, you know, back in I think you said 2009 was like first kind of introduced to you. That wasn’t even a thing on my radar at that point, and I was still in at that point, too, and I, I, moral injury was not even a concept I even had heard of, even
Eric Donoho: I hadn’t
Scott DeLuzio: far as a term at that point. You know, for the, the listeners who are Kind of confused by that because you mentioned, you know, you’re mad at God and all these things.
There’s a, there’s a lot that goes into like, what is a moral injury. But when I first heard it, like the light bulb went off and I was like, wow, that actually could be something that I’m dealing with here. Right?
Eric Donoho: Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: In your case, what, what was it for you that, that you, made you understand really what moral injury was all about?
And how does that, [00:14:00] you know, from your background, how did that apply to you?
Eric Donoho: Yeah. So, first, you know, kind of back up. So for those who are hearing moral injury for the first time, like, you know, we did back in the day or
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Eric Donoho: you know, the, the thing where the thing that, you know, you first have to describe is what is moral injury and, you know, so there’s kind of, I look at it as two definitions in a sense, there’s one that is trying to be very clinical and it’s Definition and very secular and I, I don’t necessarily understand that route as much, but I can explain it.
They say that moral injury is a moral, you know, it’s a, an injury to one’s moral compass. Well, where do we get our morals from what we determine what’s right or bad is we, you know, we get that from some sort of spiritual core in ourselves and then whatever’s taught to us. [00:15:00] So I grew up Irish Catholic, you know, there, there was a a spirituality in the house.
It was always anger and yelling and. God, right? Like those are the three things and a lot of love like don’t you talk about my family? You know what? I mean? We can talk as but my family like sticking through,
Scott DeLuzio: It’s like an angry love.
Eric Donoho: right So it’s just it’s just Irish right? It’s just Irish for those are Irish. You just know out there Kind of like town.
She’s just you know, sometimes Italians are passionate people. I would call Irish passion I call us a little bit angry. So I’m going to get some heat for that, but no the so really in all, in all sincerity. So I mean, I grew up with this spiritual aspect and core of who I was and that spiritual aspect is what really taught me what’s right and what’s wrong.
And you feel it. We know when we’re doing something right. We know when we’re [00:16:00] doing something wrong. It’s whether we choose to listen. To that little voice or the little person on our shoulder saying this isn’t this is it? Well, we’re just gonna bend the rules a little bit and and you know Each person has to make those decisions for themselves.
So now how do we get moral injury? So moral injury again the way they try to describe it from a clinical standpoint and the one they always give is when somebody finds themselves in a situation of Where they are forced to take another person’s life. And you know, that kind, that kind of in injury, you know, is, is what causes moral injury.
And I personally take great exception to that. No, no kidding. Yes. That’s going to cause some weight on your soul. But you know, as an as. Somebody who’s spent a lot of time around infantry [00:17:00] guys. The one thing i’ve never heard infantry guys complain about Is firing back at people who were firing at you?
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Eric Donoho: Like never like justifiable both sides, right? Both sides like I don’t blame them. They’re shoot. Well, if they started shooting at me first, then i’ll blame them But if I started shooting at them first, well, you know what I would shoot back.
Scott DeLuzio: but you know at the same time, you know as as an infantryman myself I I I could put myself in their shoes and I’m
the enemy to them and of course they’re gonna shoot at me because that’s What they do and so now they’re my enemy. So I’m gonna shoot back and
Eric Donoho: right, exactly.
Scott DeLuzio: the way it works. And hopefully I’m a better shot, you know
Eric Donoho: exactly. And so when I hear that, I’m kind of like, that’s kind of why things just went in and out the year. Cause I’m like, ah, you know, so the way I like to describe it when I’m talking to people is things that hit me to my core a little bit more, which is [00:18:00] When you were walking through a market patrol and you would see a husband beating a wife or a kid because they didn’t feel they were working hard enough and you’re not allowed to interject because number one, that’s not a part of your mission set ROE, all of these different things.
So you’re not, you, you, you have to witness, but you can’t help. That is like a chink in your spiritual armor that you have in the world and you see enough of those which you do at war or even in, in the civilian world because it’s moral injury is not just specific to the civilian world. Let’s say you’re you know, a civilian and you’re living in your home and it’s the middle of the night.
And some dude or female breaks into your home and you wake up and there’s a stranger staring at you. Now nothing bad happened other than you lost a bunch of material [00:19:00] possessions. They didn’t beat you. They didn’t hurt you. And all you lost will be covered by insurance. But is that all you lost? And that’s the other aspect that I point out.
The kind of moral injury that Chin, that’s not a chink to your armor. That’s like somebody just stealing it. Right? And, and now your, your safe space, your kingdom is invaded. And how do you deal with that? Well, we call that a lot, PTSD, and there’s part of that component that’s absolutely going to be PTSD and there is part of that component that is spiritual and can be healed.
The key here and the realization is that while both of these things, PTSD and moral injury, manifest the same symptoms, anger, fear, you know, trying to control situations, all of these different symptoms, [00:20:00] the treatment that you go for, through for PTSD, Will not help make the moral injury better so the only thing that I’ve found in in talking about moral injury for me and And how that worked and helped me was trying to find my faith in something again And so it doesn’t have to be you know, I tell all veterans this it doesn’t have to be what it is for me Which is god at this point it can be anything it can be a piece of property On the keen eye in alaska where you are fishing for salmon And you just have faith that that place brings you serenity and peace and reminds you of how good and amazing this world is.
If you have that, you have faith in something. It’s small, it’s not much, but there’s something to grow from. But when you have faith in [00:21:00] nothing, you know, you’ve lost hope. And that’s why the VA out of New Jersey States that the highest at risk group for veteran suicide is those suffering from oral injury.
That means that they are the most likely to pull the trigger out of any other group or subclass within the veteran community that we can break down to figure out who’s and why.
Scott DeLuzio: That’s interesting. I didn’t know that that piece of that statistic. I’ve, I’ve done some digging into the statistics of, you know, moral injury, veteran suicides, because obviously, you know, the show was created because of the people that I know personally who have committed suicide. And I don’t want to lose any more of my friends.
Eric Donoho: Same here,
Scott DeLuzio: I also don’t want to lose any more of anybody in the
Eric Donoho: Right. Well, I mean,
Scott DeLuzio: 22 a day, right? [00:22:00] Whether that number is correct or not, you know, who knows? And quite frankly, I don’t care. It’s more than, it’s more than zero. So there’s work to be done here. And so if this show is going to be effective, I want to make sure that I’m talking to the right people and what are the problems that they’re dealing with.
And, and that’s, that’s huge. You know, knowing about moral injury, that may shift some of the conversations, some of the future conversations too, to
Eric Donoho: Yeah, I can,
Scott DeLuzio: that, you
Eric Donoho: I can send you yeah, I’ll, after we get off the podcast, I got a flyer I can send you about Pete moral injury and it’s got the links to the articles and the research and stuff so you can put that out if you want,
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eric Donoho: the, it.
Scott DeLuzio: is such a big driver. I mean, I, I don’t want it to be obviously, but, but it is. Because when you take that part of you, that you held that belief that you held so dearly, [00:23:00] you know what, you just had such a strong rooted belief in something. And. It gets flipped upside down or ripped away from you or whatever the case may be Then it’s like what do I even have faith in anymore?
You know, like what do I believe in anymore? And what’s left and I now I’m struggling now I’m questioning everything that I once believed in that I once had strong deeply rooted beliefs in Whatever. I don’t know. Is that even, is that even something that I should be believing in, you know,
or is you’re just questioning life in general?
Like, I don’t want to get into the whole, what’s the meaning of life kind of thing, But it’s like
you get, you get into it,
right.
Eric Donoho: right. That core component of what drives us, right? I, I say, I mean, and, and, and it doesn’t have, and then I, I say spiritual But it doesn’t necessarily have to [00:24:00] do with Religion, right? So yoga people practice yoga in a spiritual way meditation in a spiritual way Breathing in a spiritual way, you know, there’s a number of these things and what is it to do?
It’s to center us you hear that a lot right center us. So if I use and adapt that language You know people are like, oh, okay, that’s great But the reality is that spirit that they’re they acknowledges with inside us has to come from somewhere, right? So, the key in what I say is, you have to find that northern light that you can hang your faith on.
And, and then from that point, you, you know which direction to walk when it’s dark. And it helps.
Scott DeLuzio: I can see that. I’m, I’m, I’m glad we went down this,
down this
Eric Donoho: Yeah, I can, you know, from a standpoint of why you haven’t heard of it, I can dig into that [00:25:00] a little bit too. So like, for example why you haven’t heard of moral injury is because it deals with faith and a spiritual component and the major The majority of the major VSOs don’t tackle anything that has a spiritual component to it.
They don’t talk about faith. They don’t talk about God. And it’s not that they have specific no God policies, but in a way they do. And I know people who have been removed from Positions of volunteer leadership positions because they prayed for a group before they went and did something on the hill, right?
So that God uses us and our voice in a positive, constructive way for the benefit of the millions of veterans out there. And they were let go of their position for, for, for saying a volunteer position that they were paying. And giving their [00:26:00] time up to be at right. So it’s not surprising to me if you go to any of these major websites with the exception of DAV And you type in moral injury you might get you know a few articles here and there but you don’t get a page That is like, hey, here are all these things that we do know about it.
Here is this, and here is that. Even from the clinical side, you don’t get that. And so then that caused me to look at it from a numbers perspective. And I’m like, let’s dig into the numbers on this. So in the process of all this, I found that, you know, study that it’s a One pager that the VA put out talking about moral injury out of New Jersey.
And so I was like, okay, well, who makes up moral injury? What are the type of people who are more likely to suffer a moral injury? What, what is that group and what does it look like? Cause I didn’t know. And so after I was [00:27:00] doing a little research, the best way that I could. Figure out who that group would be and quantify it is those who say that they’re spiritually Affiliated right?
So they have some sort of spiritual affiliation with Some sort of religion or something. So that’s easily trackable. DoD, when you go in, you list what you are. Are you Catholic? You know. Yeah, I mean, it’s like, it’s like, okay, well, those numbers are, are available. Let’s go see what it is in the DoD. And it’s over 71 percent of people say that they have some sort of religious affiliation.
And then there’s a study out by First Institute, First Liberty Institute, I think is what it is. Don’t quote me on that. It’s the The link is in the one page or I’ll send you But they say that the oh that that number moves up to over 90 In the veteran community and so as I heard these two numbers I go back to iraq being an infantryman [00:28:00] and I go back to watching, you know People in my platoon huddle up and pray.
I was one of the few that didn’t do that I had some things that’s in my book. I had some anger going with, with God at the time I’d deployed to Iraq. And, and literally 36 hours after I had left to go to Iraq, we had just arrived at Camp Buring from our flight to, you know, from Alaska to. To go there and I had a Red Cross message that we had lost our son David So before I’d even made it in country, I’d lost my son I went home buried him at Fort Richardson National Cemetery got back on a plane and Went to war the first night that I was in war with my platoon.
I got blown up with my first IED So like it was just this relentless like life is coming at me and what am I gonna do with it and And then you see what everyone’s willing to do to another [00:29:00] person in the name of, of God, what another human would be willing to do to, to someone else in the name of God.
And I just felt like God was being thrown out in a whole lot of areas around there. And I didn’t need to be doing that. He and I will deal with that stuff later, right? It’s kind of how my, my mind was. And and so. You know, when I heard that, I was like, well, man, it really like 85 percent of the people would pray before we go out on a mission, you know, there’s no atheists and foxholes.
That’s a true statement.
Scott DeLuzio: is true, yeah,
Eric Donoho: Like, I, I, I, I know guys who are like, I’m atheist. And then Shane’s fan, you look at him, you know, they’re like, God, if you do exist, help me out. No, I’m still atheist after they get through. But you know, like that look,
right? It’s just like, yes, yes.
Scott DeLuzio: they’re sending out a just in case message, you
Eric Donoho: Right, just in case, just in case.
Scott DeLuzio: I’ve been wrong before, just in [00:30:00] case, hook me
up here, you know,
Eric Donoho: and so, you know, hearing those statistics, I wasn’t surprised. And then, you know, I wanted to learn, okay, so what is the second group that is the most at risk? This one caught me by surprise. I, I literally, I wasn’t expecting this one but it was the LGBTQ or. LGBTQ plus community. I think they’ve had, I don’t, I can’t keep up,
Scott DeLuzio: There’s a lot of, yeah,
Eric Donoho: I’m not, I’m not trying to knock anyone.
Like I’m not trying to be disrespectful. I really try to be as respectful as I can, but it’s hard to keep up with how it changes all the time and, and what, how they want to be referred to as a community. So, So, when I looked at that, it was clear by the numbers that they are the second highest veteran group within the VA or VA and DOD that are taking their own lives.
[00:31:00] And so I wanted to figure out, well, what is the makeup of their groups? I couldn’t find VA, but I could find DOD and that may, that makeup was 6. 1 percent of that force. And then where is the heaviness of where, you know, the bulk of those fall was in the transgender community.
Scott DeLuzio: Okay.
Eric Donoho: And so, when you looked at the transgender community, they make up 15, 000.
Members of our force at the time. I was doing this research things are changing now with this new administration And the new rules that are going into place. So the these things are Going to change i’m not saying they’re changing for the better or the worse. I’m just so your viewer knows this is changing um the The So when you look at that, 15, 000 is like [00:32:00] 0.
0007%, if I remember correctly, of the fighting force. And I’m like, wow, okay, that’s a small group to be rising the numbers, right? So, what, let’s look at what we’re doing for both of these groups. And that’s where I got pissed. That’s where I got really upset because What I found is in the last 10 years of data that I could find and trace back to with the DOD and VA.
There have been 1100 new programs or ideas or theories or classes, you know, like PowerPoints, that sort of thing, 1100 new versions of these, not all like legislative priorities, we’re going to solve this, but like response to legislative things, these programs were born to help, right?
Scott DeLuzio: Okay.
Eric Donoho: And 1, [00:33:00] 100 new programs that the DOD and the VA brought created to combat veteran suicide and zero of them dealt with moral injury and zero dollars was spent on moral injury.
I’m going to drop some, like, so we heard a number that you’ll hear around 29. 6 million. This number’s been out in the you know, the press a lot. So I traced that number back. Where does that go? That 29. 6 million was spent on the second highest group. Of those at risk for suicide and the majority of that 29.
6 million went towards those 15, 000 members or veterans active duty, however you want to call it, because this is active duty DOD money, I can’t find any info on the VA, they [00:34:00] don’t list any of that right now, but for the DOD side, they spent 29. 6 million and 29. 6 million. On gender affirming care and psychotherapy for those 15, 000 people, and they spent 0 on the 70 percent plus that may be dealing with moral injury.
Now here’s the real kicker. The chaplains have the programs in place, and depending on which base you’re at, the chaplains then will run these programs for moral injury, but that comes out of their incredibly tiny, tiny, tiny small budget. So, depending on who’s running that center, Is depending on whether you see that or not depending on how much that center’s funding is is whether you see it or not And so, you know from my perspective i’m I was I was flabbergasted by that
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Eric Donoho: that’s [00:35:00] why you don’t hear about it
Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and it does make sense. You’re talking about some of like the VSOs that they don’t talk about it because they, I don’t know, they don’t want to step on anyone’s toes or they don’t want to, you know, Push anybody away, or whatever their reason is, whatever their rationale, it’s probably very similar in the military.
They don’t,
they don’t
Eric Donoho: Well, what you’ll hear is separation of church and state. So this is something I’ve been, you know, on the hill talking about, educating with these statistics and facts. And the one thing you hear is separation of church and state. And I’m like, Hey, that’s great. I hear you. We’re not talking about making laws.
We’re talking about dealing with different groups. Within the military and how those groups will respond and what they will respond to.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
Eric Donoho: And so when they hear it like that, right, and they hear it presented in that, like we’re just [00:36:00] another group of people. I’m not asking you to make religious. You know, faith based initiatives available and mandatory towards everyone.
I’m, I’m asking you that you make them available towards the ones who can benefit from it and have that outlet. Or at least,
Scott DeLuzio: why you might have a drug rehabilitation program or, you know, alcohol rehabilitation program or something. It’s not like you’re going to force everybody to go through this program. You’re going to force the people who maybe have a drug and alcohol problem to go through those programs because That’s a problem and you need the help.
Let’s get you the help and put you through that. Similarly, if you are spiritual, religious, whatever you want to call it, you know, of that mindset and you’ve experienced something that might be classified as a moral injury, why wouldn’t we want to put you through some sort of program that might help [00:37:00] you, assist you
get
Eric Donoho: I, I have a conspiracy theory about that. I don’t know if we’re allowed to do conspiracy
Scott DeLuzio: do conspiracy theories. go ahead.
Eric Donoho: So my conspiracy theory about that is, is There isn’t a big push. So if you look at veterans, what’s the number one narrative that’s thrown around about veterans all over the place? We’re broke,
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, broken PTSD,
Eric Donoho: we need, we need, help. Right.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, we’re, we’re a victim of the war, or whatever, yeah.
Eric Donoho: There you go. So, you know, you got these big groups, Wounded Warrior Project. I’m not knocking them. I’m just, I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m painting the picture, right? And it’s another wounded war it’s another, you know, warrior carrying a wounded warrior. When you see their commercials, are you seeing a veteran sitting at a, you know, running a business?
Are you seeing a veteran who’s struggling to get through their life? When you look at any of these organizations who run these commercials, are you [00:38:00] seeing veterans who are at the top of their game doing things? Or are you seeing veterans that will cause someone to feel pity? And, and, you know, Want to help.
Right.
Scott DeLuzio: don’t have, they, they’re missing both their legs, they’re, you know,
all these issues, you
Eric Donoho: So most people don’t know that there are you know 2. 2 million veteran small businesses in America that employ over 5. 5 million Americans and generate an annual 1. 3 trillion in receipts
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Ha
Eric Donoho: Right. So, so we’re broke though. Right. So now here’s the thing. When you dig into this, right?
I’m, I’m somebody that, you know, believes in the contract I signed with. So disability compensation is saying you went to war and you didn’t come home whole. We’re going to take care [00:39:00] of those issues for you. For you for the rest of your life, deductible free, and because you’re no longer whole, which means you’re not operating at the level you were before you went to war, we’re going to give you some monetary compensation that will allow you will offset, which is really what this is about, will offset the amount of money that you won’t be able to earn because of those issues.
Right. And so nowhere in there, when we talk about disability and compensation, do we say the goal is to become a hundred percent total impermanent and to sit on your couch and be broke?
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Eric Donoho: we’ve done is create and incentivize an entire generation of veterans. To be broke and on the couch because it is more beneficial financially for them [00:40:00] to be in that position than it is to be up and out and in the community doing work.
And that’s where another part of the whole suicide problem is, is happening. Because you have these leaders, these people we’ve already spent. You know, a million dollars. If you just joined the military and you were an enlisted person and you went four and a half years in, it is very reasonable to say that the U.
S. government spent more than a million dollars training you to be a leader. And yet, When these individuals come out, you know, Oh, they’re the top of the, the top of the people, they’re the best we have our veterans. They’re amazing until you get out of your service. You know, you learned a task. You did it really well while you were in and then you get out and instead of saying, Oh, I want to go to school.
You’re like, Hey, I just want to go do what I was doing in the military, but I want to go do it in my community. [00:41:00] Well, you got to go to school first. Yeah. Because, you know, you don’t, you, you, you’re not, you’re not at that level where you can do that. So now, you know, we trained you to be a leader here. We’re going to put you on the pedestal over here.
But over here we’re saying, you know, screw the fact that you came out as a sergeant first class running a platoon and knowing how to be an electrician and pass the test over here. Now you got to go compete with 18 year olds, get taught shit you already know about, you know, how to live your life and then go through classes that you know as an adult, all you’re going to do is hire a CPA.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, Right.
Eric Donoho: a lawyer. You’re going to hire people in these specific areas to help you run your business.
Scott DeLuzio: Yep. And just like you, if you were running a platoon, you, you had those people, you know, working for you [00:42:00] essentially to help you accomplish whatever your mission was, whatever your platoon’s mission was. It’s,
it’s
crazy to think about how that that’s a perfect example that you, you gave that somebody was able to do a job in the military.
I’ve heard this from people who are medics or, or corpsmen in the military and they get out. And they try to go get a job as a EMT or something like that. And they can’t get a job because they don’t have enough training. It’s like,
Eric Donoho: yeah, the, the accreditation. So there, there should be, there should be. And again, this is the, you know, the idea of legislation and the implementation of legislation don’t always match, match up, which is why you’re always needing advocates on the Hill, right? There was a number of bills that were supposed to go and enact and allow you to come out as an EMT B or, you know, I mean, a number of these medics are actually paramedic qualified, truthfully, you know, they all have their, I think, EMT [00:43:00] B actual certification when they come out of their, you know, AIT training.
But by the time that you come back from a war zone, you’re like paramedic qualified. You know, you’re doing things that you, you practiced, you learned and, and, and you’ve got way more than like 40 hours in it, you know, so it bothers me that when they come home, they can’t either get these certifications or you know, it bothers me that An electrician, a plumber a carpenter a PAO officer, right?
Press, press affairs officer, public relations, like all of these people have enough skill sets that they could come home to their rural. And I’m not saying all veterans live in rural America, but a good majority of veterans live in rural America and they could go home, start small businesses if they had the capital to do that.
Energize that section and take those same skills that make the military great and [00:44:00] enact them and help local small businesses.
Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.
Eric Donoho: And you know, that’s, that’s actually what I’ve been talking about the last two days on the hill. And it’s, it’s so that the conspiracy theorist part of this is that You know, you were talking about earlier that, you know, typically it’s, you know, a lot of it’s bipartisan.
Right. And eventually it does become bipartisan. When I first started doing the appointments on the Hill, one of the things that I was the most shocked about was how open one party was about giving us whatever we want. And then I was taken back by how another party would push back. They would ask questions and they, and they were tough questions and they were like, how are we going to pay for this?
This, these are all legitimate things that you got to figure out. Right. And the reason I’m not saying which party was which, right. Is because that’s what makes it political. [00:45:00] I’m just trying to explain the actual how it happens. Right. And so for a long time, I’m like, well, this party over here, they’re way more friendly to us.
Right. And that was just my opinion. Like they’re way more friendly to us. And then as time has gone on, I’m thinking to myself, well, yeah, they’re, they’re pretty good to us and they give us whatever we ask and say we need but it’s also keeping us all on the couch,
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Eric Donoho: right?
Scott DeLuzio: almost too easy. I don’t want to say it’s easy.
Eric Donoho: it’s not easy. Like, and, and, and, and honestly you know, I’m somebody who believes that the rating system, while it’s a tough process to navigate, tends to come out pretty equitable about where you are, right?
Like, you know, it’s, it was, when you go through the, the [00:46:00] VA’s right processes and you’re using VA approved claims, people. The process can be bumpy, it can, it can navigate, but I, I do believe even at the, if you end up having to appeal things, that your claim gets to the appropriate rating based on the issues that you are going through.
The problem right now is that we have a lot of what are called claim sharks, and they’re private law firms that are coming in. And they are getting veterans rated higher based on loopholes, not based on their conditions. And then what they’re doing is taking a whole lot of their back pay, if not all of it, and some of their monthly entitlement for a while.
And so they’re seeing it as a cash grab. And so [00:47:00] the, the hard part, when you hear all of these VSOs talking and you hear people talking about needing to look at the disability and compensation, and I’m not saying nobody’s going to try to cut it, what I’m saying is, this is the argument, this is what’s happening, so there is not one VSO on the hill that is not for shutting down these claim sharks, because the amount of fraud that existed before they were allowed to do what they’re doing,
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Eric Donoho: It’s just no way because the onus always fell on the veteran and the medical was always intense. Now it’s behind the scenes, right? Oh, you didn’t check this box. You didn’t do this. So now they’re entitled to this rating, even though honestly, maybe they’re not. And yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah.
And you know, you’re, you’re talking about these claim sharks and they’re, they’re, there are companies out there, like you said, they’ll [00:48:00] in somewhere in the fine print that says, you know, they’re the, the company will take a certain percentage or even all of the back pay if, if there’s any of that involved, and then a certain percentage of whatever that, that monthly Payment that that veteran will eventually get when their claim gets you know, approved they, they end up with that and that could go on for years in some cases.
And that, that, that becomes, I’ve heard some people, it’s like, you know, 15, 20, 000 that easily that they’re,
Eric Donoho: Oh, I mean, some of these people can get back pay in the upwards area of six figures
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Right. and,
and so
Eric Donoho: that could be life changing for the veteran and it ends up in, you know, somebody else’s hands. But the real question is, is did they, and it’s not for me to decide, right? Like, the question is, is are these lawyers?
And law firms that really are not approved [00:49:00] VA claims people representatives, right? Are they doing it all above board? And they’re not just taking the money away, but I mean, you know, if they get this money, were they entitled to it? I don’t know because they do so much behind the scenes on, you know, shady kind of stuff that it’s like, you know, you have to question.
Okay, so why did you turn to them instead of turning to one of the numerous free, free veteran service organizations slash claim representatives that exist out there from VFW, American Legion, Purple Heart, DAV, I mean all, Wounded Warrior Project, like every single So one of these groups out there has teams that are completely and 100 percent devoted to helping you achieve what you’re [00:50:00] rightfully entitled to, but they don’t break the laws and they don’t use loopholes to make that happen.
Scott DeLuzio: Right, right. And, you know, one, you know, so there’s definitely those, those organizations out there that you’re talking about that,
that are completely free. There, there’s also other organizations out there, they, they do charge a fee to
Eric Donoho: Yeah. As long as they’re VA accredited, that’s the key is you, cause they follow a certain set of VA accreditation rules. And but I’m going to be honest with you, man. I got a few friends on the legit side and I’ve had to turn to them and I’ve had to send people to them before. Right. But that’s how I know they’re just checking boxes and finding loopholes.
And, and I, I’m not trying to be, I, again, I’m not trying to be a jerk cause sometimes you need that, right? But it shouldn’t be about you needing that to get a higher rating. It should be, you need that because the VA is trying [00:51:00] to take something from you, right? The VA is. And again, I’m not trying to say all of them are there cause my friends, they’re good people, dude, like, and, and I, I, they’re the ones that I would recommend, but I also know they’re VA accredited, they’re certified, like they follow the rules, they’re not going to, they don’t take back pay, like they’re, they’re, they, they really, they do this almost pro bono and that is where you should be, In any of them if that makes any sense, you know what I mean?
Scott DeLuzio: I yeah, I see where you’re coming coming from with that I just like to say hey, there are choices out there
Eric Donoho: Yeah, oh
Scott DeLuzio: and you can you can go to Yeah, sure. You can go to the American Legion. You can go to you know, any of these these other organizations, but there’s also Other companies out there that, like I said, they do charge, but they, they have some you know, other third party service that’s involved.
Like maybe they set up [00:52:00] your, some doctor’s appointments for you to, to do certain things. And, you know, that might be something that you, you’re looking for. And so that’s,
Eric Donoho: absolutely, there’s lots of options
Scott DeLuzio: great thing that there are options
Eric Donoho: I just want to the reason i’m so forceful about it is because when veterans here Oh, we’re going to take 40 of your back pay or we’re going to take 60 of your back pay They don’t, they don’t do that. They don’t do it. I’m, I’m, you know, go to them if for whatever else you need for them, but don’t use them for that because
Scott DeLuzio: because
you’re, you’re talking a, like you said before a life changing amount of money in some cases for some
Eric Donoho: And if you’re entitled to it, you will get it like this idea that somehow, and this is the other side of the coin that it’s just not. An accurate statement to say that the VA is actively trying to keep people [00:53:00] off the disability and compensation rules, that they’re trying to keep people down. The reality is you didn’t either communicate properly to the doctor or you don’t have the documentation that you need.
And either which way, go do the work and stop complaining. They go put in the work. Not everything is going to be handed to you on a silver platter Sometimes it requires climbing a mountain do the work Don’t be the eat take the easy way out because down the line, you know, that’s your money You earned it and if and so if anybody out there they can send me a personal message, you know Through any of my socials and I can get them in touch with people who won’t take their money That’s where I’m trying to get at with it
Scott DeLuzio: yeah, there you go. Gotcha. let’s talk about your book. You, you briefly mentioned it earlier. I want to just kind of share a little bit about it. I don’t want to get too deep into it because I want people to
go out and get a copy of the book, read it, and you know, kind of learn [00:54:00] about the, the story, but tell us what readers can expect when they when they get a copy.
Eric Donoho: So this book was, you know, they tell you to get real specific in who you write a book for. So that way you, you have an audience. And when I got real specific, it was laser grunts. I want it to hit grunts that I want it to be something that they can read in a weekend. I want it to be something that is add some value that they can take some nuggets of wisdom away from.
And I want them to have a roadmap if they find themselves in a dark place on how to, or how I, you know, found, got myself out of that dark place. And so, really what it is, is it follows that journey. A lot of people expect it to be a very war heavy book. And war is only a chapter in the book because it was only a chapter in my life like it is for most veterans [00:55:00] and and, and so I wanted to reflect that in the book, although my service carries through almost every chapter, right?
Some part of that service and that idea of serving something larger than yourself. So, there are themes that will carry that, you know, feel military esque, but the, the war itself, part of it’s only a chapter, and, and that’s intentional and so it’s really designed to just give people hope, and that, you know, if you find yourself in a dark place, it’s always possible to to, to dig your way out.
Scott DeLuzio: I would encourage the listeners to get a copy of the book. Again, the book title, I don’t know if we mentioned it, Canyon of Hope is the name of the book. And right there, just in the title. Yeah, you want to judge a book by its cover. You got the word hope right there in it, right? And if that’s what you’re struggling to find and what you need,
Eric Donoho: Right. [00:56:00]
Scott DeLuzio: sometimes when you’re in that, When you’re in that place, when you’re in that dark place and you’re struggling to find hope, and maybe that moral injury is hitting hard, and whatever it is that you’re struggling with or going through, there’s something there that you’re either missing, that you’re, you’re lacking, and that you you need. But sometimes in that moment, you don’t want to sit there and read a book, and hear
all these messages, and you, but I’m saying that because if that seed has been planted beforehand, then maybe when you’re trying to figure your way out of that hole that you’re in, you start to remember, yeah, I got a ladder over here, you know, and,
and this is my way to now climb my way back out of this, this hole. You don’t want to have to. You know, start figuring out how to build a ladder while you’re down at the bottom of a hole. You want to know, you want to have those skills beforehand. And so,[00:57:00]
Eric Donoho: yeah. I mean, I, and, and ideally everyone who’s a veteran does have those skill sets. You know, they’re, they’re, they’re beat into us sometimes if you’re an infantry guy, literally, at least when I went through. But the, you know, the, the, The point of where I, where I’m getting at is sometimes you got to climb out, you got to figure out how to build that ladder in that dark hole and there’s no one around, right?
And so even the cover, which you can kind of see behind me, it is a photograph that I took from, it’s, it actually won a, in the national veteran exhibit of veteran art back
But the, the idea and why I was obsessed with capturing this is I was walking along the Gila West Fork River and the Gila National Wilderness in New Mexico, and I was in a canyon. And so all around the canyon in me is darkness. And then at the [00:58:00] end was light. And I couldn’t help but like, think, God, like being in this canyon is how I feel right now, but for the first time I’m like seeing light at the end and it’s like energizing my soul to keep running.
Right. And I’m like, why is this? I don’t want to lose this feeling. And so that whole week we were walking along the river. I. It was just obsessed with trying to capture that perfectly centered, like photography is I wouldn’t call it a hobby. I, I do sell it. It’s a passion of mine. It’s not a, the main driver of business, but everything about the, the canyon of hope from from artistic point of view is just centered where it pulls your eyes to everything.
And I, I was obsessed with capturing that, so I could hang it in my home. And no matter how dark things got while I was on this road to trying to find something better, I could remind myself that [00:59:00] there’s always light at the end. And so, when we talk about this, if you find yourself in that dark hole, and you find yourself without a ladder, And you don’t want to read the book.
You don’t want to do those things. The, the reality is you’re, you have to find some sort of spark. And and so in doing all of that, that’s the reason I wrote the book the way I did, why it flows so quickly, because. The people who need it the most are the ones that are already down there and don’t know how to get back up.
And having been there and done it my hope was to provide enough insight that I could shave off a few years, right? Not the experiences that will cause you to grow, but that I could shave off a few years. And so this year in December of 2015 will mark the 10 year anniversary of the day I failed to commit suicide.
And every single day I wake up [01:00:00] today, like this morning, I’ll do it tomorrow. I literally, the first words out of my mouth are, thanks God for protecting me that day. Because when I look back at this past ten years of how much growth I’ve had in my own life, about where I put my worries and where my north star is, so how I move forward in life, To what I choose to do when life does come hit, which is to do good for others.
So I take all of that negative energy swirling around in my own life and I use it to fuel something good for someone else. So, there’s a thousand plus, you know, wheelchairs in Nepal that all were born out of the fact of, you know, when, When I was at my lowest, it was my best friend, Brent, who picked me up and helped me find a path.
[01:01:00] And it was my best friend, Brent who ended up taking his own life two years, almost exactly two years after I tried to take mine. So, and I missed all the signs. And so I, instead of allowing all of that guilt and anger and sorrow, because I mean when people do make that decision, like at the end of the day, it’s a choice and, and they didn’t call, right?
They, yeah, you can only do so much, but I felt like I failed him. I felt like I fail. I still feel like I failed. And so how do I change that narrative? How do I think about Brent in that same positive way? And so it all start, I was going to Nepal to do a photography trip and I ended up taking eight wheelchairs over to kids who needed wheelchairs in [01:02:00] 2018.
And as my company does, it gives a hand up to people and, That wheelchair repair center needed a hand up, so I helped create a partnership with the wheelchair repair or wheelchair foundation out of California, and every year, the first one starting in 2020, and then every year after that, they’ve gotten at least one container full of wheelchairs to give out.
We’ve had, you know, wheelchair fitters. Come and teach their staff wheelchair engineers. So this is a full functioning like world class wheelchair repair center that gets wheelchairs all around Nepal and And that was all born out of losing my best friend Brent You know, so when we look at this when you channel the energy in the right way, you can look back and you can say Oh my God, all of these punches, all of [01:03:00] these things that God, I thought God was sending to break me were actually, he was sending to challenge me to continue to grow beyond what I thought was actually even possible,
Scott DeLuzio: And, and growth. I don’t think growth can happen without some sort of suffering or some sort of breakdown or, or whatever. Even, even think, just think about going to the gym and lifting weights, right? You’re
breaking your muscles down when you do that to, with the intention of getting stronger.
Eric Donoho: Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: that’s what happens when you’re going through some Let’s just say it’s some, some difficult time, some crappy situation, some life changing event and you’re, you’re getting broken down,
Eric Donoho: Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: you’re going to build back up to something bigger if you allow yourself to.
Eric Donoho: Well, and that’s the thing. It’s like, you know, in any scenario [01:04:00] you hear veterans say this all the time. You know, it gets way harder before it gets easier. That’s everything in life when you have something you’ve been struggling with personally for a while And then you know, you’re you’re out there and you’re dealing with it
If you’re not I guess we’re trying to figure out where I was going with that and honestly I drew
Scott DeLuzio: now. That’s okay. I think I get it. I get it. We’re, you know, you have a struggle, but Of one sort or another, and we all are going to have them. You don’t get out of life without
Eric Donoho: Right
Scott DeLuzio: of struggle, right? Everybody’s going to have it. And what do you do with that struggle?
Eric Donoho: Do you turn it into something positive for you and yourself? Like I tell people all the time, you’re having a bad day and you’re yelling at somebody. Do something nice for someone else.
Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
Eric Donoho: You know, you’re in, you’re in the [01:05:00] line for Starbucks. Buy the cup, a cup of coffee for the person behind you, right? You, you, you just do something that you wouldn’t normally do.
Nice for someone else. And what you’ll realize is in that kind act, for no reason other than to try to change the way your mind was processing that day, right? You’re interrupting it with something that causes gratitude. And when you interrupt anything negative with something that causes gratitude, it’s like you’re shining a light in a dark room.
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Eric Donoho: And so even for yourself, you’re shining that light. You’re just Allowing you to shine that light on yourself through someone else. And, and I don’t mean for, I don’t mean for the, the, the thanks that you get from that person. And it’s why I chose Starbucks, because you don’t get the thanks for that person, right?
And that’s why I chose that example, [01:06:00] because this isn’t about getting somebody to. Build you up. This is about you just genuinely trying to say, Hey, I’m having a bad day. Maybe the person behind me is maybe I can give them a smile. And then even if you don’t in your head, you can manifest the fact that that person behind you got a smile and you change their day.
And now all of a sudden that negative cycle and thought pattern, which happens with a lot of us veterans with PTSD. Gets broken with gratitude.
Scott DeLuzio: It does. Yep. And, and I think, I think that’s a great it’s a great way to think about it. a lot of people, they’re, they’re going to get coffee. It doesn’t have to be Starbucks. It could be anywhere, you know,
Eric Donoho: Yeah. And it’d be Black Rifle. I, you know, I prefer Black Rifle coffee. I know they’re not all over the place anymore, but they, they put a lot more back into the Venture community. So I’m not giving a shameless plug to Starbucks, just so we’re clear. I [01:07:00] just, you know, I think of my wife, that’s her favorite
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no, no worries. No worries there. I, I don’t, I wasn’t, I wasn’t too concerned with that, but you know, it, it could be anywhere.
you
could be,
Eric Donoho: McDonald’s, right?
Scott DeLuzio: drive through or, you know, any,
anything that you might be thinking of you know, where there’s somebody else behind you and, and you’re just like, you know what, let’s just, let’s take care of their thing.
And, and
Eric Donoho: Sometimes it can be your family, right? You’re having a bad day, go and you’re, you’re married, go buy your wife some flowers and bring them home to her for no reason. And just look at the, like how much it lights up their face, their eyes, bring and shine light, allow God’s light to shine through you, through your actions and through what you do for others.
And that. That will reciprocate back in the sincere gratitude that you either see on their face when you, you know, [01:08:00] interacting with your family or that you, you know, build that narrative in your head as you drive off. And either way, it’s life
Scott DeLuzio: It, it, it, it’s, it’s a strange way that it works, but give it a try. You know, I think that, You know,
Eric Donoho: worst that happens, the worst that happens is it doesn’t work.
Now here’s what
Scott DeLuzio: lose a few bucks on a cup of coffee,
Eric Donoho: Right. And here’s what I’ll say about any of this. I am 10 years out, almost 10 years. December will be 10 years. I still struggle all the time. Every day. Nah, I wouldn’t say every day. I have more. I’d like to say out loud. I always have more good days than bad because even if I’m having a bad day, I try to make it a good day, right?
Where I’m trying to get at is that like, I’m not, Oh my God, I’m a hundred percent better. No, I mean like I got blown. I shouldn’t be here. They, your, people’s bodies are not [01:09:00] meant to go through blasts, people’s bodies are not meant to, to wear through combat, people’s, you’re like, you’re, all of us, right, as veterans, we’ve put our bodies through so much crap.
So, like. We’re going to have bad days, we’re going to have challenges, we’re going to have these things. It’s about how you choose to deal with them. Do you want to play the victim and be like, Whoa, look at me. I, I, I did all of this for our country. Now celebrate me. Or do you want to have maybe a different mindset about it where you’re saying, Hey, yeah, today’s a bad day, but tomorrow I’ll be a brand new slate.
And today I’m just going to find the best positive way to get through. And again, i’m not perfect i’ll lose my shit on a person in a heartbeat um I mean not in a heartbeat anymore, but you know what i’m saying? Like I I
Scott DeLuzio: There’s still those days. There’s still days that we have, we all have them.
The, [01:10:00] you know, just the weight of life has just been
on you. Right.
Eric Donoho: Right. So don’t expect where i’m going with this in a long tangent on this subject. Or this little
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Donoho: Tad bit it’s like don’t expect things to change overnight Like, if you’re going to give it a chance, give it a chance and like, like a diet, right? If you go on a diet, you’re going to lose weight while you’re on the diet.
And then as soon as your diet is done, you’ll go back to the same shitty habits you had before and you’ll gain the weight back even faster. So it’s not about actual diet, it’s about lifestyle changes and lifestyle changes are the hardest thing to change. Ask anyone who needs to stop smoking or quit chewing tobacco or quit any bad habit.
It is the hardest thing in the world to do. But we all as veterans have experienced something even harder that we can [01:11:00] turn to and look, you know, and say well I got through that shit and I survived all of those Hundred I survived a hundred percent of my worst days. So, you know like It’s just that perspective and that realization that everything takes time.
If you’ve broke, you know, burned bridges with relationships, with your kids, with your wife, with your family, you cannot make and say, okay, I’m going to be a new person. And then expect in two months that all of these people in these years and years of like, just Just putting them down and, and not being a trustworthy or whatever it is, is going to magically disappear because you’ve decided you’re going to change.
You gotta give it time. You gotta give people time to see that the change is stick. You’ve gotta see yourself that the change is stick. Like make this about long term growth for yourself and [01:12:00] not short term satis, ification of some need in this moment.
Scott DeLuzio: Exactly. Exactly. Well, Eric man, it has been an incredible conversation. And you know, I think we’ve covered a lot of A lot of different topics you know, in, in this conversation, you know, moral injury, we’ve, we’ve covered, you know, disability benefits, we’ve covered, we’ve covered all sorts of ground with this, this conversation, and I think, honestly, it’s incredibly helpful to, you know, to hear somebody else’s perspective too, and know that, hey, you’ve been there, you’ve been through some shit, and, and you’ve come out you’ve, you’ve kind of figured out a bit of a roadmap to make change. Each day, even if it’s a bad day, find a little bit of good in that day so that you can have a little hope for tomorrow to say, Hey, you know what? Tomorrow might be a good day too. So let’s,
Eric Donoho: And I always come
Scott DeLuzio: find out. Right.
Eric Donoho: And I always come
home to a made bed.
Scott DeLuzio: go. There’s that aspect too. I will have a link to your [01:13:00] book Canyon of Hope in the show notes for the listeners.
So, listeners go get a copy of that book and check it out. Eric, really do want to thank you for taking the time to come on the show. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you and I’m sure we’ll have you back on sometime in the future.
Eric Donoho: I appreciate it. Always willing to and thanks for providing the platform.
Scott DeLuzio: You bet.