Episode 494 Sam Westfall Archery for PTSD Relief Transcript
This transcript is from episode 494 with guest Sam Westfall.
Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] You’ve been carrying that weight for a while. The stress, anxiety, the never ending noise in your head. The usual coping tools aren’t working like they used to. They just seem to add more stress. And so you need something different. Something that clears your mind, studies your focus, and gives you back that sense of control.
And there’s archery. The moment you draw the boing back. Everything else fades away. Today’s guest, Sam Westfall, is Living Proof how Archery can be a game changer for veterans battling PTSD. Stress and transition struggles. A former army tank mechanic, Sam found himself in a dark place after service until he picked up a bow.
Now he’s helping fellow veterans discover the therapeutic power of archery through the Valor Archery Challenge, and Archery N Motion. But before we dive into this episode, make sure you’re subscribed to the email newsletter at Drive On Podcast dot com slash subscribe. You’ll get my five favorite episodes sent straight here, inbox no fluff, just the best insights to help you drive on.
I also want to take a moment to [00:01:00] raise awareness for something deeply important to our community, the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians impacted by the global war on terrorism.
This memorial serves as both a tribute to those who served and a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you wanna learn more or find out how you can support the mission, visit GWOT GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.
Sam, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here. I’m looking forward to this conversation. We were, we were talking a little bit before we started recording here, and you know, really, really interested in what it is that [00:02:00] you, you guys are doing, and I’m, I’m looking forward to find out a little bit more about it.
Sam Westfall: All right, Scott, thank you very again. Again, thank you very much for having me.
It’s gonna
be a fun conversation.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I think so. So let’s, let’s just jump right into it. Tell us a little bit more about Archery N Motion and the Valor Archery Challenge and, and what, maybe we can take it a step back before we get into those. What got you into archery? Kind of what was your path and, and how did that end up getting to what you’re doing now?
Sam Westfall: So we’re gonna go for a, a quick little, long story short as best I can do it by
age 12. I was into hunting big game hunting here in Colorado and I was also shooting competitively with four H, so 22 long rifle, 50 feet, 50 you know, and jumping out there, I continued that shooting competitively till I got in the military.
So I got in the Army. I was a tank mechanic. The fun part about working on tanks is you work on a whole bunch of heavy steel. You also get to work on everything that the army has to offer at that doesn’t fly. [00:03:00] Great. I also got to shoot most of those, which made it even more fun. And I’m a decent shot. So most of those pulled me into different gunnery and different events throughout my time in the service. I got crushed by a tank, tow bar that medically separated me out. 2001. Same period of time. I also went through a divorce. So add a little bit of depression, little bit of anxiety, stress, PTSD, add it all up. I decided, you know, let’s go back to the things
I know. Alcohol. Firearms.
Probably Not the best scenario.
Scott DeLuzio: a great combination.
Sam Westfall: So, kind of going through that path I was at a, a firearms competition. A buddy of mine said, you know, I’m looking at you when I realize something. I said, what’s that? He goes, when you get done with a competition, you’re stressed. Your anxiety, your PTSD and your situational awareness have skyrocketed for like a week afterwards, and you’re kind of unpleasant to be around. Oh, I never noticed that. And he, he said, here, come with me. So we went to the archery range and he put a bow [00:04:00] in my hand. He said, I want you to just send an arrow and just try it. I did, and I realized that the instant you draw that bow string back, everything goes quiet. The noises, the voices just calm zen because all you can focus on is the release, the site, the pin, and the target. When I let that arrow fly, a little bit of that stress, a little bit of anxiety, a little bit of that. PTSD all went out with it, and over time,
14 years now, I’ve gotten progressively calmer. So that kind of gets us to where we are today. So I now I bow hunt as my predominant form of enjoyment and fill in the freezer.
And then I do shoot competitively, but I took my time in the Army as a tank mechanic. The 22 years I spent in the IT career after I got out of the army and then stepping into entrepreneurship, Archery N Motion and valor, archery challenge, and that kind of
builds up to where we are today.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so we were talking before we started recording [00:05:00] and I, I was saying how I, I had enough experience with archery to kind of make it seem like I know what I’m talking about with, with archery. But you know, when when you draw that, draw that bow back, it’s, it’s not like when you’re aiming a rifle and.
Yeah, sure. You have to support the rifle with, with your arms and everything, but it, it’s a physical motion that, that you’re doing. Right? And, and so you’re, you’re pulling it back and there’s, there’s a weight to that. It, it’s not like a, let me, lemme just pull it back and it’s super easy and it just, you know, it, it just comes back.
It, it’s a heavy weight that you have that you’re pulling back and then you have to kinda hold it there until you’re, you’re ready to shoot. And that. Is to me that that adds a, a physical component to it, which probably goes to what you’re talking about. How when, when you’re, you’re shooting archery, the your mind just kind of shuts off.
All that noise goes off because you’re
Sam Westfall: It goes to [00:06:00] muscle
Scott DeLuzio: on something different. Yeah. You’re going to those muscles now and
and you have just a, a different like, physical response than, than maybe you might with shooting a rifle or a pistol.
Sam Westfall: So let me go one, one step deeper in that, Scott,
right? So you talked about, you know, when you pull the string back, that’s one side of it, but your bow hand, you’re actually pushing the bow out and away from you to brace it and
you’ve locked that shoulder in so that it’s supporting that weight that you’re pulling back. My draw weight on my compound bow is 65 pounds, so I’ve gotta pull 65 pounds to here. And then the cams roll over and that drops it down to 12 pounds. So once you get it to here, it’s 65 rolls over, gets to 12. Yeah, you can hold 12 pounds back. Still weight.
But you really are forced to let those muscles take control and kind of to your point, right, you have to focus on controlling those muscles so that you’re not doing this while you’re trying to shoot, because that’s not gonna go
well. So you have to, it really just
calms the whole body. So that [00:07:00] everything settles, everything becomes one, and then you just follow that shot
process
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And so. There’s a mental component of it too,
where,
Sam Westfall: much so
Scott DeLuzio: where you’re, you’re holding it, you’re holding it steady. you’re
you’re not letting the, the chirps and the noises and the other things that are going around kind of distract you. You’re, you’re focused kind of like a, a professional athlete, like a baseball player on the, on the field.
If they’re getting heckled by someone out in the, in the stands, they’re there, they’re, they’re playing ball and they’re not worried about what the drunk guy in the third row is,
is yelling at ’em. You know, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re locked right in. And so there’s that component of it too.
And I, I gotta imagine.
The very first time you shot that bow, it didn’t instantly dissipate everything. Right. Like you said, it, it took time. Right. It, it gradually built up,
Sam Westfall: but it, it’s, it was noticeable on the very first shot, enough to where I said, I need another row.
’cause I gotta try that again. [00:08:00] Because like,
just to your point, right, the string comes back and all the voices in your head and all the noises surrounding you, even if you’re standing with a bunch of veterans and they’re heckling and trash talking, ’cause we all do, none of
that matters. ’cause all I can focus on is the release hand, the site, the pin, and the target, and that’s everything just zooms into a real narrow funnel that that’s all you can
see.
Scott DeLuzio: Right. And that, and that’s goes into like the, the mindfulness. Aspect
Sam Westfall: the mental health becomes critical in that.
Scott DeLuzio: right. Exactly. Where if, if you’re not able to filter out that stuff you’re not gonna probably do very well with that shot. But it, or, or, or am I, am I off on that?
Sam Westfall: Yes and No, So
Scott DeLuzio: free to, feel free to
challenge me on that.
I could be totally off.
Sam Westfall: so what I found 14 years deep in it, right? So what I found is that if you lose any bit of focus along the [00:09:00] way, right?
Whether it’s you lose focus on the draw cycle, you lose focus on your anchor point, or you lose focus on where you’re focused in that shot, making sure that the release the site, the pen and the target aren’t all lined up, right? Yep. That arrow’s not gonna go anywhere near where you wanted it to go. You have to be
physically functional and you have to be mentally in the game in order to shoot it. The difference with one of the main differences with firearms and archery is that I can grab a firearm, whether it’s pistol or whether it’s rifle, and I don’t have to be a hundred percent perfect with my form. I can still get that round in where I need it to be in archery if you are a, if I’ve got a hair outta place in my goatee. That arrow’s gonna fly funny. And so it really does become, everything has to be lined out and perfect. And your mental aspect has to be in there too, right? It’s, I
can have a really bad day and be stressed and and frustrated. And the instant I grab that bow, [00:10:00] the, the temperature drops, the instant I pull that string back, the temperature drops some more and when I let that
arrow fly, you can just see it. The
temperature just tank. It really does become calm and zen.
But you’re right,
it’s taken years for me
to get to that point.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. No, and, and I think that’s, that’s maybe the point I was trying to get to is that this is not an an overnight thing. However, you will see some benefits.
Starting on immediately, right? Like, like that first shot that you were talking about, you saw it pretty much immediately, didn’t, you weren’t where you are right now necessarily, but you were better than what you were before taking that shot.
Right? So, so you’ll, you’ll, you’ll start to see some of those benefits and then with anything. Whether it’s exercise or diet or school or anything else that you do, the more you do it, the better you’re, you’re gonna start to get. And well, I mean, that’s not entirely true because you could be doing it wrong and then, you know,
so perfect
Sam Westfall: I’ve got a couple people that have [00:11:00] really bad form, but they could still shoot
well.
Scott DeLuzio: Right, right. So, I mean, they, they figured it out eventually. Right. But, but we’re talking about, you know, kind of more the, the mental side of things and how that’s, you know, eventually if you keep doing that, that’s going to help you in the long run.
Sam Westfall: Well, so, the other side of that, right? For a lot of the military and veterans, when you go to the gun range today,
you’re muffed up similar to what you are right
now, right? You, the bulk of those conversations wrap around what gun and what ammunition, and that’s really the extent of the conversation that you can have inside of that gun range with rounds going off.
In some of the spaces that I’ve been, I’m, you know, go to a indoor gun range and I don’t know who’s standing next to me and I don’t know their
background, and I don’t know how experienced they are with that firearm. Whereas when you go with a bunch of military folks, you all know that level of training, and so there’s a level of trust there, but random people around you
that creates new stress, new anxiety. When you go to the archery range, there’s no hearing protection required. There’s no bang, there’s no [00:12:00] stressors. I can see what you’re doing with a bow. And I can see where that arrow is, and as long as it’s not facing in my direction, I’m not concerned about
what happens to it. Right.
Whereas with a gun, I don’t know if there’s a round chamber, if you swing around and, you know, muzzle blasts me.
It’s just, it, it’s a whole different scenario. We talked about this a little bit before we got on the, on the recording. The other side of that is when you go to the gun range, now you’re shooting in a human silhouette. And for a lot of folks that puts them right back into that same mindset. Stressors, anxieties depression, PTSD, that forces not necessarily a great scenario for ’em, whereas transition over
to the archery side, you’re slinging an arrow at a foam animal target.
There is no neurological connection in what you did in your time in service versus what you’re doing
now for fun. And that just creates a whole
different space in your brain and with that level of camaraderie when
you’re shooting.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And to your point, I, I know there, there’s, different gun ranges. They, they’re, they’re [00:13:00] better than others, you know, as far as some of the things that you’re, you’re talking about, right?
Where they, they may have more staff there who are, be there for, you know, safety purposes and they’re making sure that people are, their guns are pointed down range and, and everything like that, but others not so much.
And, one of the things that whenever I’m at certain gun ranges and they have those, those divider walls in between the, the shooting lanes and I can’t see what the person is doing on that other side of that thing. I don’t know if there’s a gun being pointed at, pointed at me in my direction because that wall is not bulletproof and you know, I can’t tell.
And so it’s. It kind of starts to get me a little panicked. Like, I don’t like to, to be there, but, but to your point, when you’re, you’re there and you can see, you know, where those arrows are, where they’re pointed and all that kind of stuff, like you’re not too worried about someone shooting an arrow at you
Sam Westfall: No,
Scott DeLuzio: I mean, it, they, they go that way
Sam Westfall: Well then, and there’s
an action that’s required, right? I just because
I have an arrow [00:14:00] in my bow, doesn’t mean it’s gonna go off.
Scott DeLuzio: sure. Yeah.
Sam Westfall: There’s an action. You have to draw the string back in order to make
it shoot, as it
were.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly right. And so,
Sam Westfall: if you’ve, if you’ve got somebody that’s with a, with a firearm that’s put, you know, 400 rounds down range in the last 20
minutes, that barrel’s hot.
You might have something cook off
Scott DeLuzio: sure. Yeah. And you’re not gonna have a arrow cook off
and. In a bow. Right? And, and, and you can even point a bow at somebody
Sam Westfall: Without an arrow eye.
Scott DeLuzio: an arrow
or without an arrow and, and, and, and it’s not gonna hurt anyone. Like, it’s, it’s
just a, you know, it’s just
a,
Sam Westfall: a tool
Scott DeLuzio: sitting there, you know.
Exactly. So, you know, so
when it comes to archery, a lot of times people are looking at it as the recreational or or for the sport of it, you know, hunting and, and things like that.
But, what makes it, I, I mean, we talked a little bit about this, but it, it, it, I guess what makes it great as a kind of therapy option is [00:15:00] that is what we were just talking about, is that it’s, it’s a little bit more relaxed. You don’t have to be on guard constantly. And, and that physical and the mental aspects of it that we were just talking about it, it kind of allows you to continue that shooting.
Sport, right? Whether you’re going hunting, whether, whether you’re just,
Sam Westfall: Even if you’re just, a target shooter.
Scott DeLuzio: target, yeah. Target shooting. It allows you to
do that type of thing. And I know with me, whether it’s shooting guns or archery, when you, when you’re dialed in and you’re hitting those, you know, right, right.
Where you’re aiming, you’re hitting that bullseye. It feels good
Sam Westfall: Oh yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: when, for, for me anyways, you know, I don’t know, I don’t know about other people, but like, it’s like I, hell yeah. I did it. You know, I, I, I got that, I got that shot on Target, right? And, and it, it’s not like I, I was just lucky and I got it because, you know, when you have like three or four holes in the same, you know, small [00:16:00] area, like, okay, that was me that I did that, you know, that wasn’t just luck.
Right. And so, you know, same thing with archery,
right?
Sam Westfall: Yep. So, very much so. So when I coach folks, my goal is to, to coach them to a point where they put five arrows in a one inch group at 10 yards. And so when they
move out to 20 yards, I’m looking for a two inch group, 30 yards. I’m looking for a three inch group. So by the time they get to a hundred yards, I want a 10 inch group with five arrows. That means it
is all you. It’s not luck, it’s not randomness, it is, you have dialed the bow to you. You are comfortable with your shot process, and you are getting that arrow out there consistently in the same form. That kind of spins into the, the archery and motion side is I was a competitive shooter.
I shot paper, I shot 3D. But what I found is with a stationary target, you’ve got all the time in the world to make sure that shot is lined up perfectly. I wanted a little bit more challenge, and as a bow hunter, I wanted something that was a little bit more realistic. So take my time in, in the army, [00:17:00] take my time as a in it and my time in competitions and let’s create something that moves.
Now it becomes realistic. Now it becomes a little harder. Now it becomes a lot more fun. And again, when you’re
out there with a bunch of buddies shooting, it’s something that’s moving. You know, whether it’s a straight line mover or whether it’s the oval track, the trash talk that goes
on is just amazing and it’s just pure enjoyment at
that point.
Scott DeLuzio: So, so tell me how, how all of it this
works. Like, I, I understand the, the motion piece of it. Is there, you know, competition to it? Is it more, more just recreational, just for, for fun? Like
what
Sam Westfall: above. So it started off kind of as a novelty. I will say the archery community as a whole across the country has not accepted moving targets yet. There’s still a lot of folks that ethically want you to shoot an animal that’s stopped, and stationary doesn’t always happen, but I understand their point. I also understand that if you don’t practice on that moving target, there is no guarantee that you’re gonna hit it when it comes to the field. So,
like I said, really started off as a novelty shoot. [00:18:00] Now it’s starting to get a little bit deeper into more of the competition space where we’ve included it last year. 13 major archery events and had it in as part of the competition, and it really became something different for a lot of folks where those guys that are out there shooting competition strictly for points, this was a humbling experience for ’em because it changed where their, their point structure was. If you were a bow hunter and you’re thinking about, well, I’ve got all the time in the world to shoot that mule deer target, not when it’s moving, you don’t, because now it changes the angle
of it. And it really changes the ball game for ’em. How archery and motion works is it’s a cart, steel cart. You put the target down on it, it’s got threaded rebars, so it’s adjustable to any size target. And then I got it set up right now to where it’s a wireless control all the way out to a hundred yards. So that’s a whole different ball
game and adds a level of realism to anybody that wants to
go out bow
hunting.
Scott DeLuzio: That is interesting. Yeah. Because you could have [00:19:00] an animal that is moving that. And I understand the point that, that you were trying to make before of wanting to shoot the animal when it’s stationary for ethical reasons, you don’t, you don’t wanna just shoot it and wound it and not get it. The kill shot in a nice, clean kill.
So when it’s stationary, you’re more likely to hit that, you know, hit that target and where you need to, to bring it down right away as opposed to just wounding it and having it suffer. So I, I get that. But we’re talking about. Plastic targets or, you know, whatever
Sam Westfall: Foam. Yeah,
Scott DeLuzio: and foam targets and they’re not, they’re not living, breathing anything.
So this is, you know, in my mind, this is a fun thing. This is a, like a fun shoot. And and, and it is a skill building thing too, because I gotta imagine if, if you get really good at shooting a moving target, you’re gonna be pretty good at shooting that stationary target as
Sam Westfall: All day long.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Right. So,
so the more.
Yeah, the more you do that, the, the [00:20:00] better you’re gonna be all around. I think so.
But you’re right. Adding that realism, having that, that movement involved going all the way out to that a hundred yards, that’s, that’s a pretty decent shot for you know, a, a moving target. Being able to hit that at a hundred yards.
And I, I remember this was years ago now, but we had, we had a problem with just these gophers in our, our yard. They were, they were just digging up all these holes all over the place throughout our, our whole yard. And
I, I, I was like, I, I need to get rid of these things. ’cause it, it was actually dangerous in our yard.
Like our, our son would go out, like running around and playing or, or whatever in the yard and he’d like trip on the holes because. It, it would just be, it just wasn’t safe, right? So I was like, I gotta get rid of these
things. And they, they weren’t taking the bait with the, the poisons and things like that.
We were trying to get, get rid of ’em. They, I don’t know what it was. They were like smart or something. It just wouldn’t do it. And I was, I tried even with the, with the bow to try to take ’em down. And I, like, I, I [00:21:00] couldn’t hit it from the.
Able to hit it. They were, I don’t know what it was. They were just smart. My wife ended up running over one of ’em in the car, in the driveway, and that’s how we
ended up
getting
Sam Westfall: solves a problem.
Scott DeLuzio: It, it solved, I mean, problem solved. I didn’t really care how it died, but it, I
just wanted it gone. I actually didn’t even care that it died.
I just didn’t want it in my yard anymore. But, but it wasn’t taking the relocation hints that we’re leaving behind, but but yeah, that, that’s, that’s not an easy shot. And so again, going back to that skill building, you know, hitting that, that moving target at that far distance was, was gotta be something that really takes time and, and practice and yeah, probably a, a good deal of trash talking
Sam Westfall: yeah.
Scott DeLuzio: to get you there,
right?
Sam Westfall: Yeah, and that’s,
you know, a couple buddies of mine. They’ve been, been along for the ride with me here. They’ve been practicing, you know, anywhere from 40 yard moving targets all the way out to probably 85. And it’s a humbling experience for most.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Sam Westfall: at this point, for me, it’s, [00:22:00] I can throw it out there at a hundred yards,
pretty much pick a target, let’s sling an arrow at it and see where it lands. Pretty
consistent in foam at a hundred yards. It might not be. A headshot or it might not be, you know, perfect in the lungs, but it’s in the foam, which if you’ve thrown, you know, a smaller target out there, a coyote, something like that, you’re only
talking, you know, 12 inch tall target. That’s, it’s a shot
Scott DeLuzio: It’s a,
yeah, it’s a pretty good shot to be able to hit that.
Right. Now I know from the rifle shooting that we did in the military, we practiced on moving targets and there’s you. You obviously have to lead the target shoot where it’s gonna be, not where it is kind of thing. I have to imagine it’s more exaggerated with archery because the, the, the arrow’s not flying as fast as a bullet,
Sam Westfall: Yep. Yep. So you’re, so if
you think about a typical nine mil pistol, round 115 grains for the slug, that leaves the end of the barrel doing about 900 feet per second. Yeah. You gotta lead to target a little bit.
My arrows are 31 inch long, [00:23:00] 500 grains almost. But they’re only doing about 287 feet per second, so it’s a lot slower compared to a bullet.
So you’re right. So if you put that target out at distance moving, you have to lead it a little bit more. And depending on which model we’ve got out there, whether it’s moving at two miles an hour or three miles an hour, that’s a whole different setup
and scenario of what you’ve gotta plan for and how to, how to attack
it, as it were.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so I’m, I’m bringing that up because I’m, I’m thinking of the military and, and yeah, sure. Regular, you know, regular infantrymen, their, their target shooting that, practicing that. They, they do, but, you know, snipers and other, other people like that, there’s a whole science to the shooting.
Sam Westfall: Yeah. When you get into trajectory and everything else,
right?
Scott DeLuzio: The weight of the, the arrow you know, wind speed could come into to
Sam Westfall: Elevation changes.
Yep. All of it.
Scott DeLuzio: All, all of these things can all come into play. So
this becomes [00:24:00] more of a mental play than, than just pulling a trigger at a, you know, 50 yard target or, or whatever the distance is. Right. It’s, it’s, it’s more than it that, right, because that’s, that’s a pretty easy, I mean, I think most people can probably hit a 50 yard target with a rifle.
Sam Westfall: Be able to.
Scott DeLuzio: we’re, we’re. We should be able to anyways you know, a hundred yards, you know, as, as you get out it gets a little bit more tricky, but even a hundred yards is pretty, pretty easy. And, and then as you get out to you know, much further distances, then, then you’re starting to have to weigh into those types of factors that, you know, all, all sorts of
Sam Westfall: but think about back to your time in the military, right? When you were taking shots
at, let’s call it 200 to 300 to 500 yards, you were either. In a belly down at some point, right? Whether you’re prone or whether you’re in a, a foxhole shooting so that your rifle is stabilized, there is not that option with a bow.
You are still
technically holding the bow, holding the string back, fighting the weight, and that [00:25:00] focuses that mental game all in.
Just
to, to line everything
upright.
Scott DeLuzio: Right, right. And, and so I, I’m just thinking about the. The benefits for somebody who,
Like, like yourself, like you were saying, you, you were, you were struggling with the, the PTSD,
Sam Westfall: depression, anxiety,
Scott DeLuzio: and firearms for the, the things that you knew. Yeah. All that, that stuff, right. All, all those things are, are, are the things that a lot of guys are, are dealing with when they’re coming out of the military, even still in the military.
But you know, we very often. Look to the types of therapies that are more traditional, the, that, that the VA has to offer. The, the talk therapy and the, all these different treatments that they have. And while I’m sure they’re, they’re great, for some people it might not be the thing that everybody needs, which is why I wanted to have you on the show to talk a little bit about the, the benefits that come from you know, shooting archery [00:26:00] and you know, the programs that you, you have to offer and, that, that type of thing, I think is something that more veterans need to be aware of is that
Sam Westfall: There’s alternatives.
Scott DeLuzio: things, there’s these
alternatives
and they’re not, they’re not,
You know, things that people typically think of.
Sam Westfall: so just to your point February of last year, the VA even acknowledged archery as a therapy. They’ve got a, a
long blog article just about it and so, you know, somewhat capitalizing on that, but that’s the fact that the VA has
acknowledged
it is
huge.
Scott DeLuzio: that is huge. Yeah. And. I know there are plenty of people who have issues with the VA and they’d be like, I screw the va, I don’t wanna deal with them, and all that kind of stuff. Right.
Okay,
Sam Westfall: don’t have to.
Scott DeLuzio: You don’t want to, you don’t have to.
You know, I’m, I’m sorry that you maybe had a bad experience with them and that sucks.
But there, it doesn’t mean that that’s it. There’s no options right there. There are plenty of options. [00:27:00] There’s, you know, so, could you, I mean, o obviously yourself you know, you have have done this for, you said 14 years, and so you’ve, you can kind of be a success story here, you know, talking about that.
Tell us about some, some of the other people who’ve gone, come through and, and used this as a form of therapy and what, what have they seen as far as the, the transformation within themselves or what have you witnessed,
Sam Westfall: So I’ve got a, a really close buddy buddy of mine that I shoot with regularly. He’s a Gulf War Marine vet. Got to spend some serious time during Gulf War. Impacted him pretty heavily, both physically and mentally. He’s been in archery probably 20 years, so a little bit longer than I have. But you know, we’ve had the conversation, it was we out shooting and he, he’s noticed that a, you meet a different type of personality, you get a deeper level of connection with, especially in the veteran community when you’re shooting together on a regular basis. And so you’ve got more peer support than what you would if you’re just trying to deal with your issues alone. And again, [00:28:00] I tried to deal with my issues alone. Not a great scenario. So. Deeper friendships, deeper connection, larger peer network. Because when you go to an archery event, you’re on a minimum, you’re probably talking 50 to a hundred people. You know, some of the larger events, you’re talking 3000 people over a weekend. But you can make a lot new connections and really figure out kind of who you want to connect with, where you want to connect with ’em, and how deep level you want to connect with ’em. And that, that really changes the spectrum. You mentioned it earlier, those that are still in, or those that are transitioning, you know, you’re. Especially if you’re trying to figure out how to transition, you’re experiencing a bit of loneliness because your unit’s already separated you. If you’re, if you’ve already, you know, planning for ETS, you within your last six months, your unit’s already separated you out.
You’re already in the, in the process of clearing, you’ve already predominantly been disconnected from your peer network and whatever friend network that you have, and you’re walking into
a civilian world that you don’t know how to deal with. The best thing that I can [00:29:00] recommend is. Get into archery because that introduces you to a whole different space of folks that are in a lot of ways, already in the same like mindset, and that eases that
transition for you.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And one of the big things that I’ve found from the hundreds of conversations I’ve had with other veterans on, on this show and and other places is that. Well, a couple of the big things that people have issues with when they’re transitioning is one is just dealing with civilians not knowing how to, how to, how to fit into their world.
And trying to bring
the military
Sam Westfall: deal in their world.
Scott DeLuzio: world. No, exactly. We, we, we weren’t issued civilian mindsets, we were issued military mindsets. ’cause that’s the only thing that really served the military was having you.
Essentially brainwashed into the way that they, they operate. And I’m not, I’m not saying brainwash in a negative way.
It’s like that’s just
how
it
Sam Westfall: it’s fact.
Scott DeLuzio: and. It is, [00:30:00] it is, it’s a fact. And, and so when you get
out, they, they really don’t do a great job training you to get out. And so, so dealing with those people, okay, fine. That, that could be an issue. But also the, the comradery that you mentioned is I. Issue where, where now we’ve, we’ve lost our, our peers and our, our support group and you know, and we don’t think of it as a support group, but really is ’cause it’s just those, those guys that you hung out with and, and that you, you were doing things with, you’re, you know, doing stuff on the weekends even and, and just hanging out with those people.
Right. And so, you, you, you lose that that those friendships. Not to say that you’re, no, you can’t be friends with those people anymore, but a lot of times you just, they, they fade away.
Sam Westfall: they’re gonna move on. They’re gonna deploy. They’re gonna get transferred,
you know?
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And when you,
when you have a, a, a opportunity for a group of other like-minded people like, like you’re talking about through archery I think that’s, that’s just a great.
Way to ease that transition. And so now not [00:31:00] only are you easing yourself into this new community of, of people who are into archery, that you know, if you’re into it as well, that that’s great. And then now you have that. But they’re also bringing in their civilian mindset too. If, if they
are civilians and they’re, they’re bringing that in.
It, it’s just gonna make things so much easier because you’re, you’re now getting exposed in a little way. Little bits and pieces to how they operate and their, where their minds are at. And, and
then now you’re gonna go get a job or go to school or go, you know, whatever it is that you’re gonna do after the military.
And now you kind of have a little better understanding of how they. Are operating, what, what their thought processes are. And hopefully that overall just smooths that transition. Now what if there’s someone who’s listening to this and they’re like, I, this sounds wonderful, this sounds great, but I’ve never picked up a bow ever and I don’t know how to shoot.
How, how does the, this program work with those types of people?
Sam Westfall: So. Self plug, [00:32:00] right? So Valor Archery Challenge,
that’s what we’re doing is we’re taking folks
that may or may not have ever shot before, may have never picked up a bow before. We’ve got rental gear, and I’ve got a handful of volunteer coaches right now. About 12 of ’em have stepped up and said, Sam, love what you’re doing.
Wanna support the military and veteran community. How can we help? Well, you can be a coach for me. And so. $40 for the registration fee. That gets you event registration, a raffle ticket. And for those that served a challenge coin 15 bucks. If you don’t have your own gear, I’m gonna hand you rental gear.
So that includes a bow, arrows arm guard, a quiver. We’re gonna spin you around from the rental booth, put you with a coach for probably 15 to 25 minutes. They’re gonna get you comfortable shooting on an entry level course. So 15 targets, nothing more than 20 yards. Everything’s broadside. You really get to build that level of confidence and build that mindset and skillset and that gives you experiencing it. Then when you’re comfortable on the entry level course, you’re welcome to step over to the intermediate course, and that goes out to 50 yards. [00:33:00] Half the targets will be broadside, the other half will be either quartering to quartering away or moving, and that’s where it really starts to dig in. So that kind of walks us through if you’ve never shot before, if you’ve never touched a bow before, if you don’t have your equipment, here’s how to do it. Get connected with Valor Archery Challenge. Right now we’re only in Colorado. We got three events remaining in Colorado for 2025, but I’m looking at already starting to plan ’em for 2026, and how do I build not only more events in Colorado, but across the country. The other
side of that, kind of that transition aspect of it, if you’re active, military, military, working on transitioning out or if you’re a veteran and you know, whether you’re a brand new veteran, whether you’ve been a veteran for 20 years and you’re trying to find and connect with new people. This is the event for you because in that shooting group, it’s gonna be a mixture of military veterans and civilians at each shooting station. Think of it like a, a golf course where you’ve got a tee box. At each shooting station, there’s gonna be either a VSO veteran service organization, a veteran [00:34:00] hunting, fishing, or outdoor organization, or a veteran owned business that’s gonna have the opportunity to talk with you.
Tell ’em about what what services or products that they offer. And you can figure out how to connect with those groups and what makes sense to work with you. And that just becomes a
totally different space, neutral ground That everybody gets to communicate, collaborate, and build a community
around it.
Scott DeLuzio: I, I love that. That last piece of it
that you were just talking about, how there are those organizations, those veteran focused organizations that are coming out to these events that are. Showing people that, hey, there are options for you. There’s, there’s tons of options. And, and some of them maybe, maybe you can use a product or service or whatever it is, and some of ’em maybe not and you know, but that, like you said, it’s up to the each individual.
It’s not like you, if you have 10 people there, 10 organizations there, I should say that. You have to go and do stuff with all 10 of them. Like maybe there’s just one or maybe [00:35:00] none at all. But at least you’re being exposed to some of those options. And I think that’s an important piece. And that’s honestly what, what we try to do with this show is, like I was saying before, is like we, we wanna make sure that people know what those options are, what what are out there.
And that’s, that’s why you’re here, is to talk about, you know,
exactly what it is that you guys do and, i, I think this could be you know, you’re, you’re in Colorado now and I’m sure there’s demand for this across the country. And so this could be one of those things where someone who might be listening to this you know, they’re, they have an interest in archery.
They’re, they’re hearing this like, wow, this, this would be really great. Well, hey, get in touch with Sam and, and figure out a way that you can help expand this out across the
Sam Westfall: Absolutely. If you’ve, if you’ve got access to a range and you want to help, bring me somewhere. Reach out. Happy to work with
you and get it
somewhere else.
Scott DeLuzio: exactly. Exactly. So, you know, this, this is, but to your point, this is all about those, [00:36:00] those connections that you end up making. I, I really, truly believe that that network of people that you end up getting in touch with is. Going to help you down the line. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but, but somewhere down the line.
Those connections are, are gonna be huge and you know, and, and not just. In an archery context. It could be in a business context, it could be in a, you know, other, other contexts that are out there. You, you make connections and it, it just opens up so many doors versus just having the blinders on, and I’m going through this alone.
I’m gonna do this by myself. I’m, I’m gonna, you know, screw the rest of every everyone else and every, what everyone else has to do. I’m, I’m just going to just plow through and, and do this all on my own. It, it just doesn’t work that
way.
Sam Westfall: It didn’t work like that in the military either. You have to be part of a
Scott DeLuzio: No. Exactly.
Sam Westfall: and that’s, and I know there’s a lot of people that say, well, I’m done with the military. I’m not doing it that way anymore. And in the civilian world, [00:37:00] you, you’re, you’re still predominantly alone, but you don’t have to
be, you can build
a network, you can build a community around yourself. They will, if you do it right, they’re there to support you regardless of what’s going on or how they can help. They’re there to help and that’s you. Once you, I learn how to build that, the world changes
for you.
Scott DeLuzio: Exactly, and, and if you
think about it, like people I was saying before, people coming out of the military, they have that problem with, dealing with civilians. I don’t like how they do this and I don’t like how they do that. They’re all, you know, whatever. And so you, what you like is the military mindset, and that’s, that’s what you like, but then you’re trying to be like a civilian by just, I’m gonna be by myself.
I’m gonna do this all on my own. And I, I don’t need the military mindset Well. Then, so now you’re kind of acting like a civilian and
like
Sam Westfall: you don’t know how to do
either one,
Scott DeLuzio: the problem here. Yeah, yeah. You, yeah. You’re screwing it up here
with, with that, that mindset and so like. [00:38:00]
Get into it a a group, find people, get a team of, of people that are like-minded and, you know, maybe it’s not archery for you for whatever reason, you’re, you’re, you’re not into it and, and whatever.
But find, find your people. And I, I think that’s the point. And but I, I love, I love what you guys are doing because I, I really do believe that archery is a, it is powerful for a. Not just a therapeutic thing, but a, a bonding it. It, it has so many benefits and I’m actually like disappointed in myself right now that it’s, it’s been 494 episodes and I’m just having someone talk about archery now.
Sam Westfall: That’s too
Scott DeLuzio: from the start of this podcast, I, I’m like, what the, where, where has this been? Like, why didn’t I think of this earlier?
Sam Westfall: just didn’t find
Scott DeLuzio: but here you are, and.
I just didn’t find you soon enough. That’s right. And so,
You know, I, I think, I think this is this is cer certainly an important thing that people need to [00:39:00] take a look into.
And I, I, I think it can definitely benefit lots and lots of people.
Sam Westfall: Think you have to give it a chance, right? You’re, you’re not gonna be good
on day one, and that’s okay.
It really is about what you’re feeling when you’re shooting, and that becomes probably for the first six months. Learn your form, learn your process, but really learn how you feel after you let that arrow fly.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Sam Westfall: like I said, it took me a buddy of mine to point out, dude. Your stress, your anxiety, your depression, your PTSD, your situational awareness are amplified for a week after you get done at the gun range. And
it never occurred to me. So having that peer network, having that social group that you can interact with that’s close enough to tell you and be brutally honest with you, is really helpful. And that’s, you know, even if it comes
across harsh, but it, it really did help me because when you put a bow in my hand, it changed my world.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. No, I, I can totally see that. [00:40:00] And you know, it’s, it’s well-meaning too, right? You said Yeah, maybe it comes across harsh, but it, it was well-meaning he, like, he, he’s like, I. Probably knew you as a person and knew that that wasn’t you necessarily, I mean, that, that was your normal reaction to that situation.
Okay, fine. But there’s a better version of you somewhere inside of there and let’s try to pull that person out and let, let’s try archery instead and,
Sam Westfall: Well, and even like I said, when I, if I’m having a bad day, even now, right? If I’m having a rough day as an
entrepreneur. ’cause as an entrepreneur you’ve got serious rollercoaster rides in the course of a day, multiple
rollercoaster rides. So if I’m having a bad day and my wife just looks at me and she goes, you need to go to the range.
Go shoot. And I’ll go to the range for two or three hours. I’ll go sling some arrows, and by the time I’m done,
whether I’ve gone by myself or if I’ve gone with a group, I’m calmer and I’m. More focus to get back into whatever I was doing to realign myself to make it successful. If I’m shooting with a group,
especially with a bunch of veterans, they’re trash talking [00:41:00] and they’re, you know, if I miss a shot, they’re right here to tell me I missed the shot. If I nab a bullseye, they’re all stand back going, you bastard. You know, it’s, but it, it just becomes fun and, you know, at the end of the day, we’re all laughing, we’re smiling, we’re calm, we’re, and it’s just
a better
day.
Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and that, that kind of trash talk is, I, I think the thing that a lot of guys miss from the military is being able to do that because when you have someone who’s maybe a little more uptight and, you know, they, they’re
Sam Westfall: do it in the civilian world.
Scott DeLuzio: you really
can’t do it too well, but, but it, it’s all, it all comes from a, a place of like that mutual understanding that, of
where
Sam Westfall: it’s in good fun.
Scott DeLuzio: and
it’s it’s all in good fun.
Right. And, and when you know,
it’s not, they’re not you, you miss a shot and Oh, you suck or whatever. They, they, they don’t actually mean that you suck. It’s just, you know, trying to
Sam Westfall: they, they’re trying to make you better.
Scott DeLuzio: you know? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And, and so,
Sam Westfall: No,
Scott DeLuzio: [00:42:00] When, when you have those, those types of people that, that can kind of push you forward and, and you know, lift you up a little bit when
Sam Westfall: with the veterans.
Scott DeLuzio: you succeed.
You know, I, I think that’s good, but that they’ll also put you in their place
too. But you know, I think that’s, that’s, it’s all a big thing.
Sam Westfall: Those military need to
figure out how to transition out. If I put ’em side by side with a veteran, that’s already done it, been there, done that, they can have that conversation. The veteran wants to talk with other veterans or with active military to maybe relive some of their past or reconnect with
somebody that you know understands them at that level. And that
it makes it a lot easier, a transition perspective, but it makes it a lot more of a fun event rather than, yeah, I’m partnering you up with somebody that you’ve never met before. It’s okay. There’s already an immediate connection, whether you’re space force,
you know, crayon, eater, squid, it doesn’t matter.
There’s already a, there’s already an instant
connection there. Yeah, and I, yeah,
I played that card.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. No, you’re good. You’re [00:43:00] good. I, I think, I think this would be disappointing if if you didn’t play that card, so given the conversation. So, but, but you’re right. You know, whenever I have another veteran on the show, again, it doesn’t matter the branch service, any, anywhere, you know, I’ll, I’ll even go so far and include the Coast Guard if, if I have to.
Right.
We’re, we’re, the conversation already went
Sam Westfall: Yeah, it’s already there.
Scott DeLuzio: to, I had to play into
it. It’s already there.
But
but in all seriousness, when I, when I have other veterans on the show, my my mindset is like we. Sort of just already have that common understanding and we, we can pick up a conversation with each other rather quickly.
And, and by the end of the conversation, by, you know, 30, 40 some odd minutes into the conversation, it’s, it’s like, I feel like I’ve known this person for quite some time. Not that just the 30 or 40 minutes that we spent talking and so. I really suggest to people go give it a try. You know, go, go [00:44:00] check it out.
Give it a try. Get involved with those, those other veterans that that, that bring in that, that sense of, of camaraderie, you know? And I, I know you said that you’re, you’re just in Colorado at, at the moment. What are your, your plans for expansion? Do you have, have plans going
nationwide or are you, you gonna take it.
Sam Westfall: yep. So in the last let’s call it five or six weeks I’ve had a handful of conversation with folks that are out, you know, podcast guests that have said, you know, Sam, I’d love to see you in Montana, South Dakota. North Carolina or Georgia. And so already starting to build those conversations about, okay, how do I do this?
Where’s you help me find a space that I can utilize to bring this to life? And I will figure out how to coordinate some of that. But I do need someone to help, you know, Hey, I’ve got property, or I’ve got somebody that owns property, or, Hey, I’ve know the base commander in this base. Let’s figure out how to make that conversation, that co and that connection so that
I can bring it to life further.
Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. Excellent. So, yeah, and I, [00:45:00] I think this will, this is a great thing that you’re doing right now, and I think it’s gonna be even greater once you have that, that nationwide reach where you can, you can get in front of many, many people and help them through. The sport of archery. And I, I think that that’s gonna be a, a wonderful thing when, when you get to that point.
So definitely if you are listening and you are anything like what Sam just described, yeah, definitely reach out because you know, this, this is something that I think will benefit tons of people down the line. So, you know, for anyone else who is interested in, well, you know, whether it’s someone like we were just talking about, or someone who wants to get involved to shoot, or maybe you need, I don’t know if you need volunteers, those types of things what is it that you’re looking for and where can people go to find out more information?
Sam Westfall: It’s one of the ways, but that’ll get you [00:46:00] directly to me. So just throw in there what you know, if you wanna volunteer, if you wanna be a coach, if you want to have a booth. I, I, think I’ve got. Most of the boots, but you know, there might be somebody that I’m not aware of or not familiar with, but reach out.
Let’s get you set up, let’s get, you know, figure out what it’s gonna look
like and let’s figure out where we go
next.
Scott DeLuzio: Wonderful. Okay. So we, I’ll put the, the link in the in the show notes for the listeners to check out. But Sam, it, it has been a pleasure speaking with you. Pleasure,
Sam Westfall: Told you it’d be a fun
Scott DeLuzio: talking about.
I know.
Yeah, it def definitely was. And definitely talking about
archery and you know, just the, the therapeutic benefits and the di different things that, that come along with it that I think oftentimes are, are somewhat unexpected.
I’m sure it was unexpected for you when you, you first started shooting it. And, you know, for the listeners, I mean, give, give it a shot. No, no pun intended, but give it a shot,
right?
Sam Westfall: But that’s where it is, right? Is step outta your comfort zone.
Go try something different. And it, like [00:47:00] you said, whether it’s archery, whether it’s golf, whether it’s underwater basket weaving, I don’t care. But you have to find something that you can
partner with, peer, with, network with, and it helps you. I’ve done the gun range thing. I’ve done the gun
firearm competition thing. I will say it creates its own struggles. I’ve tried the golf
thing. It’s not really my world. I
I was raised in a space
Scott DeLuzio: can be really frustrating.
Sam Westfall: Well, you know, if you smack a ball as hard as you can and you chase it, that’s called fetch.
That’s why I have a dog. So, you know, that’s, for me, archery just becomes a different
space.
Scott DeLuzio: Right. Right. Now I have to ask this. Do you ever have to go retrieve your own arrows?
Sam Westfall: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So,
Scott DeLuzio: you’re fetching your arrows too? No, I’m just, I’m just messing with you.
Sam Westfall: so there are times where I miss a target, especially when we’ve got a
moving target out there at distance.
There are times where I miss and my arrow goes another, you know, 40, 50, 60 yards behind it. Last year we were, my buddy and I were set up at a range where [00:48:00] we were taking
140 yard shots.
Scott DeLuzio: Oh
Sam Westfall: That’s a
poke. And so,
Scott DeLuzio: That is, that is quite, quite a
distance.
Sam Westfall: yeah, I had two outta
the three arrows hit foam. One went just over the top of it and we found my arrow another 70 yards behind the target. So
the, I do occasionally have to go chase my own stuff. I’m the dog.
I have to go play fetch, but you know, it’s, it’s few and far
between anymore
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I totally get that. Yeah. And it’s not every
single shot that, that you have to do, like, like in golf and you know, not, not to, not golf. Golf. You know, we had, we had someone on the show a few weeks ago who was talking about, you know, benefits of golf and, and again, comradery. You get, get people who are like-minded and, and you have people who wanna go out and, and play golf and.
Hey, great. That’s, that’s your thing.
Go for
it.
Sam Westfall: You find that works. for you. I’m, I’m on board
with
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, I think to your
point, you said before, push yourself outta that comfort zone. If you’ve never tried archery before and you’re like, ah, well I can’t do this ’cause I’ve never done it before. Well, [00:49:00] nobody’s ever done it before until they have.
And so get out there and give it a shot and, and do something.
Sam Westfall: With our rental gear, I’ve.
Great. So got kids
bows all the way down to 12 pounds worth of draw weight. They’re about size or muscle. It really is about form and technique.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Sam Westfall: So I can put a,
a, an adult bow in your hands and I can have you shoot in arrows and hitting targets within an hour than even if you’ve never touched a bow before. I. It. It doesn’t matter about size, it has nothing to do with gender. It’s about right technique and right
form, and I can have you sling in arrows.
Scott DeLuzio: Yep. Awesome. Awesome. Well, again, like I said, we’ll have those links in the show notes and we will get people in touch. Sam, thank you so much for taking the time to [00:50:00] come on and thank you for all the, the work that you’re doing helping folks out. So I, I really do appreciate
you.
Sam Westfall: Scott, it’s been awesome. Awesome. Thank you very much.