Episode 495 Jessica Setnick Nutrition and Mental Health for Veterans Transcript

This transcript is from episode 495 with guest Jessica Setnick.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] You spent years in peak physical shape training, eating right, always mission ready. Then the uniform comes off and suddenly things change. Workouts become optional. Meals become whatever’s quick and easy. And before you know it, the body that once carried you through the toughest days of your life feels like it’s working against you.

But what if you could rebuild that connection? What if food wasn’t the enemy but a tool? What if you could eat in a way that fuels your body, helps you manage stress, and actually supports the life you’re building after service? That’s exactly what we’re diving into today. I’m joined by Jessica Snick, a nutrition expert who understands the psychology of eating and why we reach for certain foods, how stress impacts our habits, and what we can do to break the cycle

of unhealthy eating choices. If you ever find yourself stress eating, skipping meals, or feeling like food controls you more than the other way around, this conversation’s for you. Before we dive in though, make sure you’re subscribed to the email newsletter at Drive On Podcast dot com [00:01:00] slash subscribe.

You’ll get my five favorite episodes. Sent straight to your inbox. No fluff. Just the best insights to help you drive on. I also wanna take a moment to raise awareness for something deeply important to our community. The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC, to honor the service members, families and civilians impacted by the global war on terrorism.

This memorial serves as both a tribute to those who served and a way to ensure their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you wanna learn more or find out how you can support the mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

Jessica, welcome to the show. I’m really,

uh, looking forward to this [00:02:00] conversation. Um, but, but yeah, I want to welcome you to the show.

Jessica Setnick: Thanks. I’m delighted to be here.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So you are a nutritionist and, you know, we have, a lot of times we have guys and gals getting out of the military who, while they’re in the military, they’re, they’re super fit, they’re super in shape, they’re, they’re eating Okay.

We’ll, we’ll go with okay. You know, they’re exercising regularly. They’re, they’re taking care of themselves and, um, they’re, they’re doing all the things that you’re supposed to do. And generally speaking, you’re, you’re in pretty good shape, but the uniform comes off and all of a sudden it’s like, well, that exercise, I don’t need to do that exercise anymore.

And, uh, yeah, I can eat whatever I want now. And because I’m, I’m free, I don’t need to worry about this stuff. And, and so I want Kind of setting up the conversation here. You know, I want to get into a little bit of, you know, kind of that mindset and that psychology, but also how, uh, feelings, you know, emotions, things that [00:03:00] people are oftentimes deal with after getting out of the military, how that kind of associates with the food aspect and how they, uh, might even use that as a coping mechanism or, or something like that.

Jessica Setnick: Transitions are

hard.

Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely. So I want to, I want to get, um, get into that in just a minute, but tell us first, tell us a little bit about yourself, about your journey into the, this field of eating disorders and nutrition and other things that you, you deal with, uh, and how your experiences there kind of informed what you do now.

Jessica Setnick: Sure. So it starts when I was in college and I was working towards no goal at all. And I just didn’t know, which I think happens to a lot of people going to college. We just think, Oh, that’s what I was supposed to do, but didn’t have necessarily a reason to be there besides fun. And. I was taking classes that fulfilled my requirements and they ended up sort of piecing together into an anthropology degree. So I was getting this major in anthropology and I [00:04:00] loved it. And if you don’t know what anthropology is, and I did not know before I did it, so no shame there. It is the study of humans, the study of our culture and how it develops cultures, the study of how our bodies developed over time, our psychology developed over time, our behaviors. So it’s all about human beings. And I loved that. It was so interesting. And then I took a nutrition class as an elective. And I thought that was fascinating, right? What happens to food when it goes inside your body? And so putting those two together, I fell in love with the idea of why we choose the choices we make, how our culture has developed with regards to eating, how our families develop with regard to eating, the words that we use to talk about eating, why you make the choices you make, why you feel the way you feel after you eat, it all really blended together. But, when I went to school to become a dietitian, really the only aspect of that, that you could talk about those things, was in eating disorders. I had intended to be a sports dietitian. Um, I wanted to be [00:05:00] the nutritionist for the Dallas Cowboys, because I live in Dallas. It wasn’t even a job, I just figured I’d talk my way into it. But, what I realized was, I really wanted to talk to people about the how’s and the why’s and the history and the family stuff, and eating disorders was really the place. Now, it’s a little bit more expanded now, but this was 30 years ago. Eating disorders was the place to go if you wanted to talk about those things.

And so I found an amazing career in the field of eating disorders. But in the past 10 years or so, I’ve worked my way back out into the community, realizing that the things that we teach as dietitians When we teach individuals with eating disorders in order to help them recover, really everyone needs those same things.

Because we all have, maybe we don’t have eating issues to the degree of someone that would identify as having an eating disorder, but I’ve changed my language to talk about dysfunctional eating behaviors. When we’re doing things with food that either are not congruent with our goals, or we feel regretful about, to me, anyone who eats can have that.

We don’t have to identify someone in a box [00:06:00] of eating disorders. So that’s how I got back out into the community. And doing the things that I do now to help people I don’t see clients individually But I teach workshops and educate professionals and talk about this this backstory of our eating in order to move forward and change.

Scott DeLuzio: Cool, cool. So, you know, it’s kind of a blend of different things that you were interested in, um, and studying about culture and how that evolves over time and how people, you know, they want It’s all really gets down to the kind of family interactions, which kind of are in those bigger communities and then, you know, state level and national levels and, and, but it’s different throughout the world.

And, and so there’s a lot of changes that take place. I was, I saw a, uh, a thing the other day of people who were like in the Victorian era, they wouldn’t [00:07:00] like. Really care much for their children. Like if their child fell and got hurt or something like that, they wouldn’t, you know, like a lot of times now, a mother, a father might go and give a kid a hug and, you know, kind of, I guess in a way, coddle them is, is kind of a mindset that they had.

And they’re

Jessica Setnick: Let’s say comfort.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. It’s comfort. Yeah. Coddle is maybe the wrong word. Comfort them, you know, in that. That that way, but back then it was one of those things where it was looked at like, well, if you do that, now you’re gonna have a weak child and they’re going to grow up to be a weak person. And in that type of thing was, was generally the mindset.

And, you know, clearly that’s changed over time and. So there’s a lot of things too, but, but even looking culturally as you were talking, I was thinking of all the countries around the world and all the different foods that, you know, pasta and pizza and stuff from Italy and, uh, you know, all these, these different things from all these different places around the world.

And, um, and so there’s, there’s different foods that [00:08:00] are part of the culture and part of the, the people. And so like, that’s a big piece of it. And so I could see how these two things intersect that,

Jessica Setnick: Well, and there’s really three

because you have your micro level, which is you and maybe your immediate family. Then you have your cultural level. And then you also have our society, sorry, um, survival level,

which is human, right? So a lot of our behaviors that we have that have trickled down to us now are survival level behaviors like getting hungry.

Uh, sorry, getting crabby when you’re hungry. If you think about, you know, in a thousands of years ago Who was the person that was going to survive because we are descended from the people who survived right

and passed on their genes So who who’s gonna survive the person who’s like, oh too bad. There’s not enough food I’ll just stay here in my cave and probably die versus the person who gets

Aggressive and he goes get out of my way.

I’m going to find some food

That’s the person who’s going to survive and we are descended from that so it’s even bigger Because it’s all [00:09:00] of humanity. It’s our genes and our epigenetics in addition to then our culture and then our family

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Right. And so there’s, you know, we, we were from descendants of crabby eaters, you know, crabby hungry people who, who want to get, uh, food now because,

you know, they’re they’re getting hangry and

they, they want to, they want their, they want to go kill that lion now and, and eat that lion or the bear or the whatever it was that they were, they were eating at that time.

Uh, and now we want our, yeah. You know, chips and soda and, you know, other, other crap that we might eat, you know, um, but a lot of these things get passed on generationally too, like you were talking about. And so, yeah, obviously those people who thousands of years ago, they, they had that reaction while that gets passed on from generation to generation.

And obviously now we, we still see that in, in our society. Um, but even. On a [00:10:00] individual level,

Jessica Setnick: Yeah

Scott DeLuzio: when you look at somebody who, I want to bring this kind of back to the military community and

the, the, the, service members who, um, you know, maybe served in combat, right. And they came back home and now they’re dealing with stuff.

They’re dealing with emotional issues, PTSD, and other things that they may be dealing with. And sometimes people. reach for food because it’s comforting to them and they, that’s the solution that they found. But, um, one thing I’ve noticed being a father myself is that kids are very perceptive and they learn how to do things through their parents and they, they’re very observant.

And when they see, oh, well, dad’s getting upset now. And so dad’s reaching for his, you know, whatever comfort food is, well, Maybe that’s what I’m supposed to do too. When I get upset, I’m going

to go reach for that, that thing too. And, and it kind of makes sense. I’m not saying it’s the right thing to do, but [00:11:00] it

Jessica Setnick: No, but everyone wants to be like their parents, right?

I mean, yeah,

that’s your best role model. Sure.

Scott DeLuzio: So it’s interesting to me. And, uh, you know, I wanted to bring this up because I know, again, that military community often deals with a lot of stress. Um, You know, how does that, that stress alter our relationship with food and, and, ultimately lead to causing some sort of problems as far as maybe it’s a eating disorder, just a bad relationship with, with food.

Jessica Setnick: Sure. Well, food is a mood altering chemical. We don’t think about that as often as we do something like alcohol or other substances. Food, like we were talking about, when you get hangry, you eat food, it changes your body chemistry, changes your blood chemistry, changes your brain chemistry, and you feel better. And so it is sort of a natural drug of choice, let’s say. Um, it’s a medication. We can use it to self medicate. But here’s the other things that also change brain chemistry. We [00:12:00] also have not eating for a long period of time can change your brain chemistry because your body chemistry changes in order to keep you nourished and well and vertical. We also have throwing up. We have over eating. We have over exercise. even things like self harm. Those are the kind of things that are associated with eating disorders, or I would prefer to say dysfunctional eating behaviors. And people don’t do them because They have problems. People, I’m sorry, I should say it differently. People don’t do them because they’re fun, okay? People do them because they’re trying to solve a problem. And so, stress sort of saps out your good brain chemistry and any of those other choices, including alcohol, including drugs, including sex, including gambling, those things replenish brain chemistry. And so it makes sense that someone would turn to a self medication if they have a stress situation that is beyond something that their coping skills [00:13:00] will help them with. And so it’s really important to make that connection, but we don’t often we think of it as I’m a failure. I’m weak. I don’t have any self control.

I don’t have any willpower. That’s why I do these behaviors. And really, it’s much more chemical than that. Our whole bodies are chemistry experiment.

Scott DeLuzio: It is. And I, I even saw that, and I’m not sure exactly how true this is because, you know, everything you see on the internet isn’t necessarily true. But, but I even saw a thing where, um, depending on. The order that you eat certain things, like, like for breakfast, maybe you have a cup of coffee and you have your eggs and toast and whatever it is that you might have, um, if you play around with the order of that, you, you might have like a, a spike in like.

Your, your glucose at a, a certain point after eating certain things, and then it might drop, uh, quickly, or if you eat it in a certain order [00:14:00] and you do other activities, it may kind of be a little bit more level. And so to your point of it being almost like a drug, it affects your chemistry of, of your body.

And it certainly does if you look at it that way. And so, you know, there are things that we do because it. That chemistry feels good. Uh, and, and so we may eat more. Because, well, it makes me feel good. So

Jessica Setnick: Even drinking coffee.

Scott DeLuzio: sure. I mean, I’ve, trust me, I’ve seen people who haven’t had their, their cup of coffee for the day and they’re not the type of people you want to be around.

And, um, you know, that actually, like for me, I, I used to like anyone who served with me, uh, overseas and in Afghanistan, they know that I love drinking coffee. I don’t care if it was 110 degrees outside, I still had a cup of hot coffee and I was drinking it because I, I would. I just wanted it every day. And my wife even shipped me a coffee maker and, you know, some, some coffee that I could make while I was over there.

And it was, [00:15:00] it was wonderful. I loved it. Um, but I realized after getting home that it basically, it had a control over me. Like I couldn’t function normally without a cup of coffee in the morning. And I was like, what if I don’t have coffee in the morning or, or can’t get coffee in the morning for, for whatever reason?

Um, Do I really want to be addicted to this thing, to this chemical, really, is what it is that I was addicted to. And, I was like, I don’t want this anymore. And so, It’s probably not the best way to do it, but I kind of just went cold turkey. I was like, I’m not drinking it anymore. And I

Jessica Setnick: But you had a monster headache.

Scott DeLuzio: was a pain in the butt to be around for the next few days.

But, you know, once when that, yes, absolutely. I had a monster headache. Um, but as soon as that, that subsided and, and I, that kind of went away, I haven’t gone back and like, I, I don’t, I generally, I don’t drink anything with caffeine in it at all

anymore.

Jessica Setnick: that was an amazing [00:16:00] insight that you had. And also what that tells me is you were able to replace what you’re getting from coffee in other ways. So for example, when you were telling me that your wife shipped you a coffee maker and coffee, to Afghanistan. I’m thinking, okay, every time you made a cup of coffee for yourself, you’re thinking about your loving wife and how that was a big effort for her to figure out how to get that to you. Right.

So there’s a there’s an emotional piece to that, too. Wow. My wife really loves me, cares about me, thinks about me when I’m not there. And so if you Let’s say, for example, when you decided to stop drinking coffee, if your wife said, Oh, so now you don’t care about that present I got you, right? That could be a stressor.

Or, if you thought, Oh, I don’t know, let me just make something up. But like, your wife was out of town, and you really missed her, and you couldn’t talk to her, and you’re like, The only way I can connect with my wife is making that coffee with that

coffee maker she gave me, right? There’s lots of emotional aspects to coffee.

Right? [00:17:00] So

you were able to connect with your wife in a different way. So you didn’t need coffee to do that. And you were able to find the pep in your step in a different way. So you didn’t need to do that for someone who has different chemistry. They might not have been able to stay off coffee. And that’s why they would have then said, Oh, I’m such a failure.

I tried to quit coffee and now I can’t do it. And then that shame and embarrassment and. filling of failure adds to the stress and makes it a bigger and bigger issue. And so that’s why there’s two outcomes that could have happened from you deciding to quit coffee. One is that you got your needs met in another way, whatever coffee was giving you. And the other is if someone doesn’t have those other coping skills. that they find it’s really difficult to change eating habits. And that’s when we dietitians kind of jump in and say, tell me more about that. What exactly, how did you start drinking coffee? When did you start drinking coffee? Let’s say someone said, well, I started when I was really depressed.

When I was in high school, I started drinking coffee and it gave me something to look forward [00:18:00] to every day.

Well, jackpot, there is a piece of information. Coffee was really elevating your mood.

And so, You may need another way to do that. In other words, coffee is a stand in for giving me energy, helping me feel better, helping my brain chemistry feel like I want to tackle my day.

And so if you don’t have coffee, okay, what will you do to get those things? So it’s, it’s can be so simple in words, but it can be so complicated in the, the doing.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. I mean, it’s easy to say, oh, I just stopped doing it and it’s like a matter of fact kind of thing. And I’m trying to think back, like what was the thing that replaced it? And I’m not even sure that I know what it was that replaced it, but, um. I’m sure if I give it enough thought, I could probably come up with it, but, um, but it’s a good point that you brought up because, you know, I’m using myself as an example here for the listeners purposes.

So that, you know, maybe like replace coffee with something else, because there’s probably some [00:19:00] listeners here who might’ve already tuned out because I said, I don’t drink coffee and they’re like, well, this guy’s obviously not. So, um, you know, but, you know, replace it with something else, you know, is, is there that thing that you feel like I need to have this every day or when I feel.

fill in the blank, when I feel depressed, when I feel sad, when I feel whatever, I need to have this. Well, okay. Why? And to, to your point, what is that thing, uh, doing for you? What is it?

Was it changing in your yourself?

Jessica Setnick: And you have to look back sometimes and think, what are the associations I have with coffee? What are my experiences

with coffee earlier in my life? What are my experiences with coffee from the people who raised me? I mean, there are people who, um, may have been raised in a situation where they weren’t allowed to have coffee.

And so it became more alluring to them,

Right. There’s lots of messages that we get about things. I’m thinking not of coffee, but I’m thinking of diet soda. There are lots of, of young people [00:20:00] who grow up thinking, I can’t wait till I’m a grown up and I can have diet soda too, right? Because it’s something they’re not allowed when they’re a kid.

And that’s the only reason they want it, is because it must be special if I’m not allowed to have it. So there’s so many associations that we get about food that aren’t even from our own experience, they’re from the people who raised us.

Scott DeLuzio: I, I remember as you were talking about that, I remember as, as, so as a kid, we drank skim milk in our, in our house. And so with No cereal with, you know, breakfast or whatever it was, skim milk with everything. And then as I got older, I was, uh, I was probably in high school or so I was at a friend’s house and I had a glass of milk.

There was like cookies or something. I had a glass of milk and they, all they had was whole milk, milk, and I had that. And it was like this. Creamy God send that came into my class. And I was like, where has this been all my life? And it was, it was like the most wonderful thing. And, you know, so anyone who had just always drank whole milk, [00:21:00] they wouldn’t, they’d be like, what, what are you talking about?

But I don’t try, try drinking skim milk instead and see how

Jessica Setnick: Right.

You know?

when you said cookies, you made me think about my husband, and he Once, when I was, probably we were newly married, and he saw me, um, actually, let me just tell the story

as it happened for me, so I won’t give you any clues. Um, he walked by and he said, who’s coming over? And I said, I don’t know, who’s coming over?

Like, is this a joke? Like, I don’t know what’s happening. And he said, no, I mean, who’s coming over? And I said, I don’t, I don’t know who’s coming over. And he said, are we having company? I said, no, we are not having company that I know of. Why are you asking me this question? And he said, well, you’re baking cookies. I said yes. And he said, you’re baking cookies for company. And I said, I don’t understand the conversation we’re having. Do you want some cookies? He said, well, when my mom baked cookies, it was always because we had company coming over and we kids weren’t [00:22:00] allowed to have any cookies because company was coming and they got to have the cookies.

And if there were some left, we could have them. And I was like, Oh my God, this conversation made no sense to

me, but it made perfect sense to him. And I said, I’m baking cookies for somebody down the street, but here’s a plate of cookies. You can have as many as you want.

And I gave him a plate of cookies to sit and eat while he watched TV. And he was just amazed that, like, what? You just baked cookies at random and I can have some? And I thought, we are having some serious healing here right now. And he didn’t eat the whole plate. Now, granted, there are some people who would have had the reaction of, like, Wow! I never got to have fresh baked cookies when I was a kid! and just eating them all, and it could develop into a problem, I suppose, but my husband, for him, it was just like, well, great, I get to have some cookies, jackpot, he had some, and, and that was the end of that, and it just opened my eyes to how, right in my own home, these experiences with food are happening and can be passed on without us even realizing that they’re [00:23:00] there.

Scott DeLuzio: Exactly. Because to your point, uh, your husband thought that that was a normal, uh, situation

that you bake cookies when you have company. And so that’s the only time that you ever do that. As opposed to, I mean,

Jessica Setnick: you just want cookies?

There’s some cookies

Scott DeLuzio: make them. If you want cookies, make them. You know, you’re, you’re a grown up.

You can figure it out. You know, there’s a cookbook. You can write, get

it, get a recipe.

Jessica Setnick: Oh, yeah. I mean, there’s nothing like marriage and parenting to alert you to the stuff that’s in your head that you thought everyone did, that

it turns out not everybody does.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. No, that, that does happen. And, and so Um, even like your taste for food can come from your, your upbringing, you know, maybe your,

Jessica Setnick: Yeah, of course.

Scott DeLuzio: your parents, your mother or father was a really good cook. And, and so you always had like the,

Jessica Setnick: Or grandparents

or

Scott DeLuzio: gramp. Yeah. Whoever, whoever it was. Yeah. Maybe you had always had great meat tasting meals and [00:24:00] everything.

And then you get married to somebody who maybe isn’t such a great cook. And then you’re like, you know, but, but to them, that’s, that’s just normal because maybe they, that’s the way they ate growing up too. Um, Or vice versa. It could be the other way

Jessica Setnick: And I’m thinking if we personalize it to the military, and

I have never served, but in my imagination and in my work with service members, I, I pictured big communal meals,

right? Same as with sports teams. And so when you discharge and you’re on your own, maybe it doesn’t, it’s not as appealing, right? You just want to sit in front of the TV and eat a bag of chips because it’s not that fun. To make a meal for just one person and

eat by yourself that might feel really lonely.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that, that’s a good point. Uh, that’s actually a different direction than I thought you were going with this, when, when you said, you know, bringing it back to the military, um, because from day one in basic training, it’s like you get five minutes to eat your meal and just shove it down and just eat, eat, eat, eat, eat.

[00:25:00] And. You know, a lot of my military friends, even after years, after they’ve been out of the military, you know, if we get together and we’re eating something like we’re done eating in no time, like we just shove the food down, almost like we don’t taste it. It’s just like

we’re eating because it’s time to eat.

And that’s what we’re doing. And even, you know, at home here, I, I eat really quick, like at dinnertime, I’m always the first one done in my family. I always the first person finished. I’m just sitting there and I’m like, it doesn’t look like anyone even touched their food yet. And it’s, it’s pretty crazy, but, um, but that’s another thing that is, uh, kind of gets ingrained in you in the military.

And that isn’t exactly the best way to eat either. You know, it’s

probably better to eat it slowly and, um, you know, allow your body to tell you when you’re full instead of just finishing everything just because it’s there. Um, And, and so I, I, I wonder how much of that is, you know, like learned behavior from something [00:26:00] like a basic training situation where you’re being screamed at.

And if you’re, if you’re talking to someone, well, if you have time to talk, then you must not be that hungry. So you, you don’t get to eat anymore and go throw your food away. So the next time you’re obviously going to just

shut your mouth and just eat. And so like that kind of gets ingrained in you and.

If it, if it’s able to be taught to you, could it also be unlearned? Okay.

Jessica Setnick: Okay, so there’s two parts one is you have to be in a position where you are comfortable enough Let’s say with Finishing your meal so fast, and then other people are eating, can you comfortably sit there and participate in the conversation, etc., without having to go get more food so that you feel like you’re part of the meal,

Right. Because if you’ve had enough, then you going back to get more just to sort of keep you in a I don’t know, that, that comfort state, that emotional comfort of like, I need to have some food on my plate because I feel really weird because I ate all [00:27:00] my food and

now I’m just sitting here. So that’s part one, is accepting that, yes, I eat fast because I was in the military, and not feeling ashamed of it.

Because shame does not help any of this, what we’re talking about. So feeling embarrassed, feeling like you have to cover it up, feeling like you have to be sneaky, or etc. Apologize. You should never apologize for having served, right? So, but, but you can feel that way if you feel excluded, if you feel different from the other people you’re with. So, de shame it, number one. Have to do that. Yep, it’s just a fact. This is what I learned to do in the military, this is what I do now. Even though I’m not in the military or not serving anymore.

Part two, then, is how can you change that behavior in one small way? Because, okay, let’s just face it, most people cannot go cold turkey off caffeine like you did. And, you know, that says a lot about you, but it also says a lot about your chemistry, right?

That you were able to kind of Tackle that and live through it. So I don’t want to set that up as the standard,

Right.

You [00:28:00] can’t go from eating in five minutes to having like 40 minutes to luxuriously. Enjoy your meal Let’s try six minutes,

Right.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Baby

Jessica Setnick: Or right

Scott DeLuzio: take it one,

Jessica Setnick: Exactly, or could you eat everything on your plate except one bite and leave one bite? Just leave it there on the plate and participate in the meal with everybody else And then, right before the meal ends, eat the last bite. Or, would you consider sort of eyeballing half the food on your plate, and pushing half of your mashed potatoes to the side, half of your green beans to the side, half of your chicken to the side. Just eat half as fast as you normally do, and just leave the other half, participate in the conversation for a few minutes. And then go back for the other half. So in other words, you’re not trying to eat less. You’re not trying to slow your eating where you’re like, I now eat one bite at a time. That would feel really abnormal. But how do you sort of slow down [00:29:00] your brain process in little increments so that you can, your, your, let’s say the part of your brain that learns can learn Okay. I have time. No one is taking my food away. I don’t have to be finished in five minutes because I remember what I said about survival. Food is survival.

And so you learning to eat in five minutes was part of survival. There are other things you probably learned in the military that when you left or discharged, you were like, Thank God I don’t have to do that anymore! And you didn’t keep doing it, because it wouldn’t have been survival related. And so, the things that are survival related, things like food, shelter, and safety, those are the things that are gonna stick with you, right?

Like, I know people who still When they sit down in a restaurant, they have to be facing the door. They want to see who comes in, right? Those are things that last lifelong because that’s survival. My uncle Stanley, who, um, I’m going to say the wrong thing, but I think he was in North [00:30:00] Africa or Italy in World War II and there was not enough water. And. He slept with a glass of water by his bed every single night till he died in his 90s Because if he dreamed about water he or if he woke up in the night and needed water He wanted to know it was right there The things that are related to survival stick with us a really long time and

food is one of those things So that’s why that’s one of those things that can can you know break it down into very small steps and try those small steps and sometimes you have to Remind yourself and sometimes you forget And you go, oh shoot, I ate all my food in five minutes.

I didn’t leave anything on the plate. I was trying to practice leaving something on the plate and I just kind of autopiloted. That’s okay. That’s part of the learning process.

So we have to be really kind to ourselves when we’re trying to make a change like that. But it is possible. It’s never too late to change.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And the point that I think we’re trying to, uh, get here, or that I was trying to say here is that, you know, when you’re in [00:31:00] that environment where like, like, let’s say my family, like I’m usually the first one who

finishes, um, because I, I just eat really quickly. And sometimes I do feel like. Like everyone’s just kind of quiet because they’re enjoying their meal and they’re,

no one’s really talking and I feel like I’m just sitting there staring at people eating and that’s kind of weird to, to do.

And so sometimes I feel like I do have to go get more food and put it on my plate so I can participate in that activity as well.

And

Jessica Setnick: Not my first time. Not my first rodeo, Scott.

Scott DeLuzio: I know, and so you mentioned that and I was like, wow, she, she nailed, nailed that one right on the head there because that, that’s something I do. And then I ended up eating more than I actually wanted to eat.

And so that’s. That’s not a great option

either. And so. Yeah, the way you described it, slowing it down or splitting it in half or

Jessica Setnick: But remember step one, step one is to de shame it.

You gotta go back to step one before you go back to step two. You have to just be like, okay, [00:32:00] I, I eat fast because that’s how I got used to it. It’s okay. Whoo, take deep breaths, Scott. Don’t have to go back for more food. You get to participate in the meal just by being human.

You don’t have to earn it by eating more food.

Scott DeLuzio: You’re absolutely right. Yeah. And so, yeah, it’s not like I really feel shame that I got more food. It’s all I, all I’m, you know, trying to get across here is that I didn’t really need it, but

I did it anyways. And, and so now, now that I’m thinking about it, it’s like, yeah, I could, I could split the meal in half and that’s not a big deal.

I, you know, and yeah, sure. plow through that, that first half and

then, you know, kind of, you know, engage in conversation, ask about their day, you know, do, do whatever.

And then, then plow through the second half and, and go, go through there. And, and that’s, I think a real simple change, but it could be for people, especially who are, they’re like, I just can’t seem to drop these last, you [00:33:00] know, 10 or 15 pounds or whatever.

I just can’t figure it out. And so, well, maybe that’s part of it. Maybe you’re eating more than, than you, You don’t really want to even be eating, you’re just doing it because of, you know, that situational, uh, kind of setting. And, and so,

um,

Jessica Setnick: I doubt that you are the only one.

Scott DeLuzio: no, exactly. And that’s honestly, that’s why I wanted to have you on the show, because I know there’s other people out there who, you know, you joke around.

It’s like, yeah, my part of my uniform still fits the socks, you know, like that’s the part of the uniform that’s still, still fits. But, um, you know, and, and so, you know, we get out 10, 15, 20 plus years later and. You go and try that uniform on, you know, a lot of times it’s not going to fit, but

also

Jessica Setnick: I,

can I say, oh,

Scott DeLuzio: yeah.

I was going to say, it’s

Jessica Setnick: I was gonna say, yeah, that might not be normal, but it might not be normal for you to be the same size

that you were when you were 18 or 25. That’s not [00:34:00] normal.

Scott DeLuzio: not normal to, you know, being 50 years old, you’re not going to, you’re not going to fit in the same clothes that you did when you’re 25 or, you know, 20 or whatever, uh, that, that’s not normal, uh, either. Um, I mean, if you do, you know, good, good on you, like good

for you,

Jessica Setnick: but

our bodies change throughout

life, our lives, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: exactly.

So, um, you know, if you don’t. Not a big deal, um, but, but,

if you’re, but if you’re, looking at it, like, maybe I could be closer to that because

Then there, there, are some small changes that you could make that might make a big difference,

Jessica Setnick: Well, and also there’s a big difference scott in let’s say I weigh 15 pounds more or 30 pounds more than I did when I Was 25

And you’re just hovering there and you maintain and and that’s just your now your normal weight Versus continuing to gain gain gain gain gain gain. That’s two different things

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Sure. Yeah, and I think that’s That’s an [00:35:00] important metric to look at like if you’re looking at it and it keeps sticking up then okay Maybe there’s there’s something going on there.

Jessica Setnick: Yeah, because that’s what we dietitians do. We don’t like to compare people to other people and I know in the military you have BMI cutoffs and all kinds

of things that actually my colleagues in the military who are dietitians are, are working on some of those things to have less pressure put on some of that stuff

because we’re all different sizes and BMI basically says that people who are the same height should all be the same weight and even a five year old knows that’s ridiculous.

So, yeah. So, you know, we’re trying to move away from those kind of things, but at the end of the day, we’re comparing you as a person to you as a person,

um, that’s how we measure children’s growth. That’s how we look at adults. And so again, you know, having a sort of an adult weight be higher than your teenage weight is normal, but if as an adult, your weight is continuing to tick up, up, up, up, there’s something going on and it makes sense to look at it, whether it’s your eating, whether it’s your hormones, whether it’s something else, it’s important to [00:36:00] look at.

Um, I don’t want to make it sound like everyone who’s gaining weight is eating because sometimes there’s medical issues and same with losing weight. We always think about, oh, losing weight is always good under any circumstance, but you know what? It’s not. It’s actually sometimes a signal of an illness, right?

If

you’re not doing anything different and your weight’s going down. We shouldn’t be celebrating that. We should be concerned. So that’s what we’re always looking at is comparing you to yourself rather than comparing you to someone else.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. I, I was, a few years ago I had, uh, COVID, and I, I just, I wasn’t eating, I, I wasn’t, I had no taste in my mouth, so like, everything just tasted bland and the same, didn’t matter how spicy or how, whatever, everything just

Jessica Setnick: Yeah. My sister in law said the worst thing to eat during COVID was guacamole. Just FYI, anyone, if you lose your sense of taste, don’t eat guacamole.

Scott DeLuzio: okay,

there, there’s.

Jessica Setnick: like mush. Terrible. Terrible.

Scott DeLuzio: And that’s pretty, I mean, it is pretty much like mush and I can, I can imagine if it, if it had no taste to it, they would be pretty

gross. Um, but yeah, every, [00:37:00] everything I was like, I mean, I could be eating cornflakes or I could be eating a, you know, a filet mignon

and I wouldn’t really, I mean, other than the texture, I wouldn’t really know the difference.

And so, um, I just didn’t care to eat. Um. And I was like, that was the greatest weight loss, uh, plan that I’ve ever been on because it just kind of fell right off. But it, it, um, but you’re right because it was a, it was a illness and that’s, that’s kind of what the root cause was

of all of that. Right. Um, and so, yeah, you want to pay attention to those, those types of things, any swings up or down,

Jessica Setnick: Change.

Scott DeLuzio: could be.

Indication, it could be nothing, it could just be part of that normal

Jessica Setnick: Mm hmm. Yeah. That’s okay too.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, one time, time and another and that, that could be just a normal thing. Um, but if it’s, you know, a rapid sudden loss or gain or, or whatever that, that could be indication that there’s some medical issues too.

So, um, you know, I, I know, you know, a lot of these lifestyle [00:38:00] changes happen in, in, That could be what you attribute it to, you know, getting out of the military, you know, other, uh, other things like that could, could just be part of it. Um, but I, I like the idea that you were talking about earlier of food being like that mood altering chemical and, you know, even Television commercials have like the Snickers, like,

Jessica Setnick: Oh,

yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: know, you know, hungry, you know, have a Snickers and, and,

you know, they have the, the guy who’s all acting crazy and then he has a Snickers and then he’s, he’s

Jessica Setnick: hmm. Well, Snickers is nature’s perfect food. Proteins, carbs, and fats all in one package.

Scott DeLuzio: all in one neat little package and they, and sugar too. That’s a, that’s an important food group as well.

Jessica Setnick: Well, yeah. It’s carbs.

Yeah.

Gets in your system fast.

Yeah.

You don’t need a grilled chicken breast when you’re hangry.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. I know you, you want, and you, you want it quick. And so that’s, that’s,

how, that’s

Jessica Setnick: I mean, again, we nutritionists would, would prefer that you not get [00:39:00] hangry.

Um, but you know, this morning when I had, let’s see, I had three pieces of raisin toast, two with butter on them and one that I ate while I was waiting for the other two to toast and for my eggs to cook, right? Because I was hungry.

So yeah, we always joke that if you have to eat the peanut butter off the spoon before the bread’s finished toasting, you’re too hungry.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Well,

Jessica Setnick: is the only thing you have that you feel like you can eat fast enough, you’re too hungry.

Scott DeLuzio: right. Yeah. And so I guess, uh, to your point, what do you do to prevent yourself from getting to that point where you’re too hungry in the first place?

Jessica Setnick: So, we

have this very mistaken idea in our society that you have to earn your food by being very hungry. And actually, no, you should really eat when you’re very, very lightly hungry. And the problem is, let’s say you are working in a workplace where you don’t have your meals at certain times, like when you’re on active duty.

You know, it’s more leisurely. And so you start to feel hungry and you think, Oh, you know [00:40:00] what? I’ll call Jack and see if he’s ready for lunch. And Jack says, Oh yeah, but I told Tony that I’d call him when it was time for lunch. And so, and then, then you all get together finally. And then it’s like, okay, where are we going to go to lunch?

And then you go across the street where you’re You know the line is 20 minutes long for lunch. So by the time you actually sit down to your meal You’re famished and there’s a bowl of chips on the table and you didn’t go to lunch So you could eat a bowl of chips you went because you really like the enchiladas or something But by the time the enchiladas come you’ve already eaten a basket of chips, right?

So it’s like In our society, we sort of get over hungry through the process.

And so we really need to plan a little better. And that’s really the secret is to make sure we have food available when we actually start to get lightly hungry. Rather than when we start to get lightly hungry is when we start to think about where I’m going to get food.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and then also when you’re lightly hungry, you’re less likely to as much. And, and so you’re,

Jessica Setnick: Yeah. you’re, it’s like a pendulum. That’s right. If you pull the pendulum too far back, it’s going [00:41:00] to swing too far the other way. An overly hungry person usually eats too much and that’s not an eating disorder. That’s just survival.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah, exactly. Um, but I like that, uh, that description though, of the pendulum going, you know, one way to the other, because yeah, if you’re, if you’re super hungry and you got to pull it all the way over here, it’s going to swing all the way to the other side and you’re going to eat

that whole bowl of chips, plus the enchiladas and, you know, probably get a dessert too, on top of it.

And,

you know,

Jessica Setnick: Oh, think about, think about the last time you went to like a cafeteria where you can put whatever you want on your tray. If you go really hungry, you get so much food. And then when you sit down, you’re like, who put all this food on this tray? You eat half of it. And you’re like, Oh my God,

what was I thinking? We call that your eyes being bigger than your stomach. Right? I mean it’s super common. There’s actually a cliche for it

Scott DeLuzio: Right, right. And it happens all the time.

I know, like, I’ve gone to places with my kids and they, they had some food there that they, they are seeing that they’re like, Oh my God, this is, I’d love to [00:42:00] have, you know, all this, this stuff. And they pile stuff on their, their plate, like, who do you think you are?

You’re not going to finish all that, you know? Um, you know, so it’s kind of, kind of funny, but, um, so, Cool. For the listeners, um, who might be in this situation where they have some, some sort of, you know, problem, problem relationship with, with food, they, there, there are some of these things that we, we have been talking about

are kind of ringing true to them as well.

Um, what are some things that, that they can do to improve that relationship with their food and, and, and make those improvements in their, their selves? I know first off you said, you know, don’t, don’t feel ashamed. Uh, you know, with that, I

think that that’s step number one, but what, what are some of the other things that they, they can do, uh, to kind of help move the needle in the right direction?

Maybe, maybe control what they’re doing a little bit better.

Jessica Setnick: Yes, I have some suggestions, [00:43:00] so you’re absolutely right. That de shaming it is the very first step. We have to be able to talk about things and look at them sort of objectively in order to be able to change them. And then the next step is to have a little bit of insight into why it happened. Because if we don’t figure out the why, sometimes we’re just trying to white knuckle a behavior. Right, like we’re just like, I will not eat chips while I watch TV. I will not eat chips while I watch TV. I will not eat chips while I watch TV. And we’re not really changing the behavior,

right? So the question then is, what is it about watching TV and chips? Is it that I didn’t get enough to eat? Is it that I, I feel fidgety and I need something to do with my hands? Right? Is it that I feel guilty for being able to just sit here and watch TV when I have friends who are overseas who don’t get to be in their home with their family, right? If you can get a little bit of insight into it that can help you figure out a need that needs to be met. So how can I feel connected to my friends overseas and recognize [00:44:00] that it’s my time to be at home?

Or how can I, um, find something to do with my hands? Do I want to learn how to crochet? Or do I want a coloring book or something while I watch TV if it’s just too hard for me to sit still? And we may be talking about something like ADHD. We may be talking about something like depression. We may be talking about something like PTSD, right?

We can’t rule any of those things out, but you have to try to start changing the behavior in a small way in order to see what comes up next. So in other words, if you’re always sitting in front of the TV, I’m just picking this as an example, if you’re always sitting in front of the TV with chips, you never know what it feels like to sit in front of the TV without chips. if you can start doing maybe, maybe I’ll just bring a bowl of chips to the TV instead of a bag and see what happens when my my chips run out. How do I feel? Do I feel anxious? Do I feel unhappy? Do I feel bored? Maybe I don’t even want to be watching TV. Maybe I’m actually eating chips because that feels like an activity because I don’t [00:45:00] actually want to be watching TV.

Maybe I actually miss being with my Friends overseas or maybe I want to take up. I don’t know jigsaw puzzles like who knows what it is, right? But we have to sort of experience the loss a little bit of the food Aspect in order to find out what the food was filling

Scott DeLuzio: That, that’s a good point because when you have, uh, sort of like a routine, like if let’s say you watch TV at night, you know, after dinner, you, you, you sit down with your, you know, your wife or your, you know, whoever you’re with and, and you’re

Jessica Setnick: or alone.

Scott DeLuzio: alone by, it could be by yourself. That’s true. Uh, and you’re watching TV and you really want to be doing something else.

Like you said, some active type thing. Um, well, maybe. Yeah, maybe you don’t need those chips if you were, uh, I don’t know, like you said, crocheting, or doing a

puzzle, or, uh, coloring in a

Jessica Setnick: Quiet time is really hard for us as humans to deal [00:46:00] with, especially when you’re used to having your day planned out for you, especially when you’re used to being busy, busy, busy until you sort of flop from exhaustion

into your bed is really hard to tackle downtime. And even if it’s something you want it right, transitions are hard, even if there’s something you were looking forward to, even if they’re a good thing,

it’s still a difference.

It’s still a change. I sort of think of it as as emptiness. A lot of things feel empty. A lot of feelings feel empty. Hunger feels empty, but also boredom can feel empty. Loneliness can feel empty. And so we can sort of mix up those feelings. And even though we know we’re not actually hungry, we can attempt to fill boredom with food.

We can attempt to fill loneliness with food, even though if you say it out loud, it makes perfect sense. Like chips are not my friend.

They are not going to make me not miss my friends somewhere else. But let me give you an example of a patient that I worked with once. [00:47:00] She was Trying to be very insightful about her eating, but she She wasn’t sure that my methods really worked.

Let’s say and so she She would not write down what she ate. She would tell me she’s gonna write down what she ate I told her I don’t care what you eat. Don’t write it down, but she insisted that was gonna help her She kept saying she was gonna do it and not doing it and I said, okay, you know what stop saying?

You’re gonna do it. I don’t want you to do it Why don’t you talk into your phone? Maybe that’s something that you can do to try to get a, an idea of what you’re feeling in the moment. So. When I saw her, she played me this series of messages on her phone. The first one said, I’m on my way to Cheesecake Factory.

I’m going to get salmon and a piece of chocolate cake for dinner. That’s just what sounds really good to me. And you said I should eat what sounds really good to me. That was all, the whole message. The second message was, Okay, I’m doing what you said. And as I drive to Cheesecake Factory, I’m thinking, Why is it that I want this [00:48:00] salmon and chocolate cake? And you know what I realized? I saw a video on whatever, social media, of my friends in California eating, or sorry, celebrating someone’s birthday. And there was a chocolate cake, and I thought that looks really good. And so, you know what? I’m gonna go to Cheesecake Factory, and I’m not gonna get the salmon.

Cause that was just a ruse. I don’t really want the salmon. I want chocolate cake. And I was just pretending I was going for salmon, because it sounds too luxurious to say I’m going to just get chocolate cake. But I’m just going to get chocolate cake, cause you told me I should eat what I want. That was the next message.

Okay, next message says all right So I’m thinking about what you told me and I’m thinking about why I want chocolate cake And I realized that I really miss my friends in California. I don’t really want cake I really want to be with my friends So I’m turning around and I’m driving home and I’m gonna go call some of my California friends Because it turns out she wasn’t hungry after all.

I mean, that is amazing insight, right? But in order to have that, [00:49:00] we have to slow down. If she had had chocolate cake right there in her house, it would have been eaten.

Maybe the whole cake,

right? But because she had sort of that time period of actually Going out she was able to really think through and that’s what I’m talking about is that sometimes it feels so real to us Like yeah, I want cake and I can have it cuz I’m a grown up But if we slow down the process we can actually figure out what the need is underneath and I am NOT saying don’t eat chocolate Cake when you want chocolate cake when you want chocolate cake eat it.

Yes I’m a dietitian and I’m saying eat it But don’t eat it when what you really want is friendship. Don’t eat it when what you really want is a hug. Don’t eat it when what you really want is quiet time with a good book. Right? Cause chocolate cake doesn’t solve those things.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah. And at the end of having that chocolate cake, you’re that need for

Jessica Setnick: Oh yeah!

Scott DeLuzio: or the book

or whatever it is, it’s still gonna be there. it’s

just gonna be layered over on top, buried

Jessica Setnick: well done grasshopper. Yes, that’s wonderful because that’s the [00:50:00] whole idea is yes Okay, so you ate extra calories of cake fine who cares but big picture You’re also not getting your other need met and so think about the whole like the Eating ice cream out of the container when you’ve had a big breakup.

That is such a cliche. It’s in every rom com It’s in every sitcom, right? And so If you eat ice cream out of the container when you have a breakup, who cares? Whatever make yourself feel better. But if it’s nine years later and you’re still eating ice cream out of the container because of your breakup Then that is not about ice cream that is telling you that you have some grief and loss That’s never been handled and you deserve to heal from that,

Right, That’s the key is it’s not the food is a clue To telling you what’s going on under the food.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. And you know it, it becomes real easy to just. immediately switch to the food, I feel like, and maybe I’m wrong on this, but because of that survival aspect that you’re talking about where well, of course the food is going to fix this [00:51:00] because well, that’s fixed everything for centuries for, you know, the human race is

like food, like if you’re feeling a certain way, food is going to fix

Jessica Setnick: And there’s a PS. Isn’t it easier to think, Oh, I could just reach for some ice cream in my freezer

instead of accepting that, Wow, I really miss my friends and some of them are not living and I’m not going to see them again. Like, yikes. That’s a big heavy duty thought to

have, right? And so, yeah, I would much rather this be like, Oh, yeah, I just need some ice cream.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Jessica Setnick: sounds much better.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I 100 percent can relate with that too. I mean, there are people that are no longer here and, you know, every, you know, like anniversary or birthday or, you know, things like that, that comes around that, um, you know, reminds me of that person. It’s like, well, I, this is the thing that reminds me of them.

And so,

you know, maybe, maybe it’s a, a food or a drink or something

that, that kind of reminds me of them. And [00:52:00] it’s like, that’s, yeah. That’s what I want to do almost as a, um, like a, a tribute or a special way to almost spend time with that person.

Jessica Setnick: Yes,

exactly. But the, this is the amazing part is that you are saying like, yes, on this person’s anniversary of their death or on their birthday, I think of scooter, whatever, but what’s, um, what’s amazing is that so much of that is unconscious. And I don’t like thinking that there is an unconscious part of my brain that is controlling my behavior.

It kind of freaks me out I just calm myself by remembering. Okay, that part of my brain also keeps my heart beating and my lungs breathing

Scott DeLuzio: You don’t want to turn that

Jessica Setnick: not Right. I’m not consciously aware of those things and so it’s okay. It’s taking care of me but I had that exact experience that you described where when you know, like my first paycheck out of out of You know, when I was in the working world and I was like, I’m going grocery shopping and I can get whatever I want.

And I saw this giant Mr. Good bar and I couldn’t tell you why, but I wanted that giant Mr. Good bar. And it was [00:53:00] just so big and I bought it. I was like, I can buy whatever I want. And I got home and I thought, I don’t even want to eat that.

And what I realized was it was my dad’s birthday. And my dad died when I was 12.

And Mr. Goodbar was his favorite candy. It was the only candy I ever saw him eat. And I thought that is so weird that that happened without me actually being consciously aware of it. And it’s amazing some of this stuff that is, I don’t want to say buried exactly, but it’s not in our conscious awareness because it doesn’t necessarily relate to our daily life.

But it points to the fact that there are things that are very significant to us and again, can feel like a loss, can feel like emptiness. It’s really easy to think I feel empty and food will fill it.

But a lot of it is not about food. And I think that we, and this is my impression because having not served in the military, my impression is that you do sometimes have to smush how you’re individually feeling for the sake of the mission, for the sake of the team,

right? You don’t get to always have your feelings in the moment. Now that’s true with a [00:54:00] lot of things, right? If you have a job, you can’t just feel all your feelings all the time.

If you’re taking, if you’re driving a car, you can’t necessarily feel all your feelings right then. You have to pay attention to the task at hand. But those feelings kind of back up on us if we never feel them.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Right. And so, yeah, you do have to eventually feel them and some of them may be difficult feelings to feel and you may not want to feel them and

it may feel better to have the chocolate cake or the Mr. Good bar or the, you know, whatever it

Jessica Setnick: And I would say, do both.

Have the chocolate cake or the Mr. Good bar, and have some feelings. Because the trade off might be too hard.

Might be like, oh, so you’re saying I can have a lovely piece of cake, or I can just cry all day? I’ll take the cake,

right? But if you can say, there can be some of both of this, and over time the feelings can get heard, let’s say, then maybe they don’t come out sideways as craving for food all the time.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And it’s more like have, have the piece of cake as opposed to the whole cake,

Jessica Setnick: That would [00:55:00] be

good too.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, the whole cake with no feelings or a piece of cake with some of the feelings. It might

be, might be, better, uh, a

healthier approach to it. Right.

And yeah. And I, I think that’s, you know, it just, uh, the way we think of food, I think to your point, be a little more conscious about it.

And how you approach it, like why is it that I have that craving for

a certain thing? Or why is it that I always eat a certain thing at a certain time or on a certain day or whatever? And some of it might be You know, like a celebration kind of thing too, like on Christmas, you always have a certain type of meal on Christmas.

Okay, well, that’s not a big deal. It’s just tradition. That’s, that’s, that’s fine. But if it, if it’s something else, it’s like every single day I’m having this and it’s covering up something else, that becomes the problem. And, and then you might want to be a little more conscious about it and try to get down to that root cause of why am I doing

Jessica Setnick: Yes, And, and [00:56:00] a hint is to think about being a kid.

What was that food? What did that food mean to you or what was it like as a kid? When did you eat it as a kid? We like to think that all these things are so far in our past They can’t possibly be affecting us anymore. But let me tell you the longer ago something happened The fewer coping skills you had to deal with it,

the less understanding and discernment you had about it, the more of a childlike story you told yourself about it.

It’s very interesting how childhood eating experiences can really stay and linger with us. So that’s my hint for you, is when you’re eating a food in a way that seems like it doesn’t really fit with your, or it’s not congruent, let’s say, with the way you want to live your life, Think about that food as a child and whether you were restricted from it or forced to eat it or what, what the situation was.

And there may be a clue in that.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s, that’s awesome. Uh, awesome insights on that. Um, before we wrap up, um, I know that you have, [00:57:00] uh, you know, a book and you have some, some other work that you do. Uh, would you be able to share a little bit about, uh, all of that with the audience, tell people like, you know, maybe where they can find out more information about you and what you do and that type of stuff.

Jessica Setnick: Yes. So my umbrella website is jessicasetnick. com and that’s where there’s information, um, for professionals to have a consultation with me, for someone to invite me to their event or conference or to plan a workshop together. And that’s at jessicasetnick. com. So that’s really, everything is there. Um, but specifically what we’re talking about, is Healing Your Inner Eater, and there is a separate sort of sub website, healingyourinnereater. com, and that’s where information about my upcoming workshops will be, and where someone can purchase the workbook if they’d like to, and I’ll, I’ll do a discount code, it’ll be podcast, so anyone listening can go there if they want to, and that’ll bring the cost of the workbook down to 15. And um, that just has a lot of exercises in [00:58:00] it that you can do individually if you are interested in looking more deeply into your own relationship with food.

Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. Well, I will put those links in the show notes for

the listeners and I’ll, I’ll put the, uh, discount code, uh, podcast as well in there so that they can, uh, you know, get that discount on

the, the workbook. Um, so listeners check that out and, uh, you, you can grab that. Uh, in the show notes, um, Jessica, thank you so much for taking the time to share your, your experience, your expertise, your insights with us.

And, uh, you know, kind of helps me be a little more conscious just through this conversation, having some of these, these, uh, you know, uh, associations with food, um, Helps me kind of be a little more conscious about the things that that I’m doing with the food And so I think this has been a great conversation.

Hopefully it’s been helpful for some of the listeners if it has please Follow subscribe share [00:59:00] with with folks to you know, kind of help them out as well So thank you again, Jessica for taking the

Jessica Setnick: Yes. And thank you. And all of your listeners, thank you for your service.

Scott DeLuzio: We appreciate that. Thanks. Thanks so much