Episode 497 Michael Rodríguez Honoring the GWOT Generation Transcript

This transcript is from episode 497 with guest Michael Rodríguez.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] We fought side by side. Lost brothers and sisters came home with scars. We don’t always talk about. We carried the weight through deployments, transition and the quiet war that followed. But after all we gave, where’s the place that reflects our story for the global war on terrorism generation? That place is being built.

Today’s guest isn’t just a combat tested special forces veteran. He’s leading the effort to create a national memorial in Washington, DC that honors everyone who served, sacrificed, and lived through the longest war in America’s history. This isn’t about politics or policy, it’s about people, us, and the legacy we’re leaving behind.

But before we dive into this episode, make sure you’re subscribed to the email newsletter at driveonpodcast.com/subscribe You’ll get my five favorite episodes sent straight to your inbox, no fluff, just the best insights to help you drive on. Now let’s get into today’s [00:01:00] episode with Michael Rod Rodriguez.

Hey, rod, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here. Um, looking, really been looking forward to this conversation for, for quite some time. Um, but really glad to have you here now.

Michael Rodríguez: No, I’m, I’m excited to be here hermano I really appreciate the opportunity to come here and chat. You know, you and I’ve gotten to know each other pretty well over, you know, since, since meeting at MIC Um, so forward to continuing the conversation, man.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m, and I’m looking forward to, uh, the conversation as well. I know when we met at MIC it was, uh, it was one of those things where I was like, I, I gotta get this guy on the show. And, and here we are, you know, finally, finally got you on the show and, and we’re, we’re getting it done.

But, um, for the listeners who maybe aren’t, uh, familiar with you, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself. I, I know you [00:02:00] deployed, deployed 10 times, you, you’ve spent years in the Special Forces community. Um, for those folks who don’t know about you and your, your background a little bit, tell us a little bit about yourself and, and kind of the experiences that you’ve had and, you know, any, anything that you’re willing to share, you know, kind of along the way.

Michael Rodríguez: Sure thing, but before I’m gonna do that, I’m gonna talk about you. So you said something. Yeah, I gotta get this guy on the show. So, when we met, you know, I think we both had, uh, uh, similar motives. You know, after getting to know more about your story and learning, I was like, man, I gotta get this guy on the team.

So I want to take this chance to, to, uh, put thank you on this podcast for, for, uh, you know, joining the foundation at the start of this year. As, as, uh, our uniform service fellow, um, I mean the, the Jawbreaker fellow, one of our Jawbreaker fellows. You know, it’s, it’s really, really important for me that we bring the voice of everybody and there’s a lot of people that don’t talk about themselves like you.

Um, that, um, I want to be sure your voices are heard. So before I go into me, I want to, I wanna recognize you and thank you for the continued leadership you’ve provided, um, you know, given, uh, your [00:03:00] history of service, your, your service. And then, uh, you know, the tremendous, uh, lost it, I think we all felt as a nation, but you did personally with the passing of your brother.

So, I’m gonna start there.

Scott DeLuzio: I appreciate that. Thank

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah, absolutely. Hermano No, I, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s important, you know, and that’s, uh, and we’ll talk about the, the importance of storytelling and keeping things alive. Um, sure. Later on. So, uh, about me. So I grew up in, I’m from Southern New Mexico. I grew up in a, uh, uh, I was born on the border with New Mexico and in, uh, in Mexico, down in a town called Deming.

But I grew up in Las Cruces, and my first heroes growing up were, um, my father who served in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive. And then, uh, you know, my, my uncles, um, or my great uncles and grandfathers who served during World War ii, um, those were, those were my heroes, you know? Yeah. I liked Spider-Man too was a kid, and you know I’m a little older.

That was like the eighties. I was born in 74, so, um, you know, it was, but those, those guys were my heroes, so they really, truly inspired me to, to serve our nation because my, my men are incre. Uh, [00:04:00] the men in my family are incredibly stoic and reserved men. I. Uh, traditional, you know, uh, Chicano culture, just quiet and reserved.

They don’t say anything unless they gotta say something, never see any emotion. Um, but one thing that struck me as a child growing up was, you know, I’m the oldest, uh, grandchild on my father’s side, so asked a lot of questions. I I, I played with the Green Army man. We’d buy Kmart and the little green tanks.

Uh, and I was, I knew they served because Maita and my grandmother had the pictures of them on the wall. And, um, you know, they, they, uh, I’d see ’em in uniform and they were just so different, um, than the, the men in my life at that time, you know, the, at the grum up version of the, those kids on the wall that went to war and, you know, would ask questions and they never really talked about the war.

And those of us, you as well, you know, that, you know, have, have stepped into that arena and. And, um, you know, done some of the stuff that we’ve done or experienced [00:05:00] or seen or whatever. It’s those that have gone to war I, we don’t glamorize it. There’s nothing glamorous about it, so they never glamorized it.

You know, these are some of my, like I said, my father served during Tet uh, offenses, one of, uh, the deadliest year during the Vietnam conflict. My grandfathers, uh, well my great uncles were part of the, the Normandy invasion. One was airborne and jumped in, but they never talked about any of that. One of my uncles was part of one of the bomber crews and has 23 missions of what he calls delivering the good news over Germany.

That’s what he, he, that’s what he called it. But they never talked other than that. They never talked about stuff. But when they did speak, when I’d asked, they finally like, okay, uh, they spoke about those they served with, and that’s when their tone changed and emotion came out that I had, I would only, I, I hadn’t really experienced from seeing them express and they spoke about them, um, with reverence and love and for me, we’re incredibly family focused familia, right.

Like families first that, that. That, uh, inspired me to serve, to grow my own, you know, if I made my own [00:06:00] family. So I joined the Army, uh, 92. I was blessed, I think I, for cut my way through life and getting into situations or getting opportunities presented or whatever, whatever you wanna call it, because I joined the Army in 92, probably the dumbest private, uh, I think the Army’s ever had.

Um, and then, you know, at the, at the start of 93, just a few months later, um, I was deployed to Somalia in 1993 and got to experience, you know, really what the United States military does. While, you know, we don’t just, uh, go after bad guys and hunt down terrorists and provide safety, security, and freedom, not just for our nation, but for those, uh, a across the globe, but we also provide hope, um, safety, um, security.

I mean, uh, there’s so many things we do. So that mission we was, was to. Uh, you know, uh, address the famine that was going on at the time. ’cause the warlords and Mogadishu were taking the food, so we would escort. And, you know, I I, I left prior to the Blackhawk down incident, which occurred in October of that [00:07:00] year of 93.

But prior to that, I mean, there was all little, you know, skirmishes, whatever you wanna call it going on, but nothing really significant. But that was when I saw what we did. Uh, in addition to, um, you know, defending our nation and I, I remember, uh, delivering food to these food distribution sites with various NGOs that were there, that the food lot I got there, had we not been there.

But you go there and you have these, um, like a camp of children all under tarps, huddled together in, in, in little groups, you know, hundreds, uh, if not thousands, sometimes, uh, no parents around, no adults. They don’t pass away whether through famine or hiv aids. And, um, it. We’d show up. And these kids are your typical, you know, missing hair, missing teeth, belly distended, severe malnutrition.

But when we roll up, these children would get up and they would come to where we were with, you know, the most beautiful smiles I’ve ever seen in my life, right? [00:08:00] These are, these are human beings, children living from moment to moment. And just because of us being there, we, we were providing that hope. It was called Operation Restore Hope initially.

Um, the deployment in 93, and, you know, that instilling hope, I mean, it’s a powerful thing. And, and, and, and that love that we shared, it was just incredibly impactful for me as a young, dumb 18-year-old private. So that was when I decided I wanted to do that the rest of my life. I decided I wanted to go into special forces, uh, to be a Green Beret, because during that deployment I saw, uh, special forces, uh, ODA, uh, uh, operational Detachment Alpha.

And they weren’t wearing all the crap we were wearing. They were just cool. They just looked different. They had. Guns I hadn’t really been familiar with. And, and, uh, one of them, one of their vehicles that when we’d see them, they had a pet monkey. And, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, I would love to be able to have a pet monkey.

I couldn’t even put my hands in my pockets at that time. Right? But these guys had a pet monkey, [00:09:00] so that was inspirational for me. But then after the Somalia deployment, another deployment, I was at 10th Mountain Division at the time, another deployment popped up, um, operation ReSTOR Democracy. That’s when there was a military coup that occurred in Haiti where, uh, the general overthrew, the government, the democratically elected president, and we, the nation, our nation, responded in force.

I was part of the task force that was on, uh, one of the aircraft carriers that went down there. Uh, there was one, uh, conventional unit. It was, uh, 10 Mountain Division again on the USS enterprise. And then JSO had their own aircraft carrier. They had birds circling, you know, the 82nd and the 75th Rangers SF teams, green Beres were already on ground as well as some other assets.

And, you know, thankfully, uh. They, the, the guy who had initiated coup was like, all right, okay, nevermind. Maybe I shouldn’t do this. But as the conventional unit in the area, we, we got, we got to stay there and help secure the government. So that was my second deployment. I saw SF team there again, just doing different stuff.

Every time we get somewhere, [00:10:00] they would seem to be there. And it was shortly after that where I was like, you know, I think I, I, I’m ready. I, it is something I want to do. And I, you know, I went to selection to pursue, uh, becoming a, a Green Beret.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. That’s awesome. And you were talking about those kids in Somalia, the smile on their face. That probably, and I wasn’t there, but that I, I have to imagine that probably was just coming from a place of pure joy seeing these, these soldiers coming in with the food that they desperately needed, obviously, right.

Um, that was wrecking havoc through their, their communities and their, their lives and everything was just getting destroyed because they didn’t have this. And then here you are coming in and it’s like, here you go, you know, here, here’s that stuff that you’ve been missing. And, um, it’s like, my God, I, I could just imagine the joy coming out, out of those kids’ faces, so that, that’s awesome.

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah. I can’t even, I can’t even, I don’t even, I can’t even, I mean, these are children that are living moment to moment, right? Like literally living moment to moment in one of [00:11:00] the, one of the NGO workers that told me that they do patrols, not for security, but with the camps to, to check the vitals on the children.

’cause sometimes, you know, they just pass, right? And they’re laying there next to their peers and it’s, it’s, uh, it was very impactful for me and I think, you know, put me on, you know, made me shoot my asmuth and stay on it to try and do, you know, serve the mil, serve our nation in the military as long as I possibly could.

Scott DeLuzio: Well, and it shows just the impact that you can have on not even just a, uh, a country or a community or a portion of the country, but on that one individual. You look at that one individual and it’s like, that made such a difference in that person’s life. And sometimes when you look at one soldier in the grand scheme of the United States Army or you know, the military as a whole, you look at that one soldier, it’s like, what, what impact could I really have?

But you look at that story and you, you, you put you and that kid together and it’s like you had a [00:12:00] pretty damn good impact on that, on that kid.

Michael Rodríguez: I, I, I hope so.

Scott DeLuzio: You,

Michael Rodríguez: I, I, I, I, I try not to, you know, those are, especially when you come across those, like in a, a true state of oppression, not oppressed per se, perceived oppression, but like a true state of oppression. Um, you know, I, I, you just don’t know. Uh, I like to, I, I, I hope and I pray, I, I really do that.

Some of them are still around, but, you know, uh, realistically, I don’t know how long they survived, you know, but you seeing that impact and that op the opportunity to be part of something like that to something bigger than ourselves I, that I, I know speaks to you, uh, spoke to your brother, obviously, uh, speaks to all of us that have served or sacrificed in, in, in so many different ways, you know, serving something bigger than yourself.

I, I really believe that’s why we were put on this planet.

Scott DeLuzio: a hundred percent. Yeah. And, and it’s, it’s definitely bigger than ourselves. And that, that’s, that’s awesome. But let’s fast forward a little bit. So you were medically retired from the Army in, in [00:13:00] 2013. Um. Tell us about the transition. You could tell us, you know, as much or as little as you want about, about that, or, you know, that the circumstances leading up to that or, or whatever you’re comfortable with.

But, um, were you prepared for that transition?

Michael Rodríguez: no, no. So, uh, I was not, um, I, it was. I mean, it, I wasn’t prepared for it. I was not, uh, it was, it meant be retired. So a, a little bit more, my story is, uh, as I continued to serve, um, I started, um, I said collecting TBIs brain injuries. You know, there was a number of incidents, uh, in training and on deployments where I would, you know, um, get knocked out.

Right. Um, missing a fast rope on some fast rope infiltration at 35 feet and go land like a dawn dart. ’cause you’re wearing 65, 70 pounds of gear up, right? But I’m like, I, I joke around quite a bit about some of the, my experiences. ’cause you know, I, I, like, I’m a, I’m a roach man. I, I could not get rid of me.

I just kept coming [00:14:00] back. It was very hard. But brain injuries, uh, accumulate over time and, you know, that, and then a lot of the experiences, uh, person that I personally, um, um, you know, had I. You know, we don’t, you don’t have time to process that. You don’t have time to do anything with that. So you just put those in a shoebox, throw it in the corner, in, in the closet.

And I, I don’t, but as you know, with, with the operational tempo that we started experiencing, you know, post nine 11, um, you know, I was, I was fortunate that I, I became a greenbury prior to, and, and got to do some of that stuff prior to the, the global War on terrorism. But then after that, things just really picked up, uh, a a lot in things, became a lot more kinetic.

And so, anyway, I I, a lot of injuries. I, you blown up a few times. Eating charges. Uh, it’s something that, uh, people from our community are pretty familiar with is if you go to place an explosive breaching charge onto, uh, an entry point, right? Initial entry [00:15:00] point, sometimes it’s a wall, sometimes it’s a door, sometimes it’s a window.

Who knows? You place it. If you’re, you put up there and you’re the number one man you cover, and then after the breach replace it, you go back, you wait for the countdown to go in, initiate. And everyone else is supposed to be, you go up there and pull security. So you’re, you’re supposed to back up and get this little bit of a standoff, but everybody’s anxious to get in.

So the people creep forward and then you’re like, uh, uh, then you start hearing the countdown, you’re like, oh my God, my face is like two feet from this charge. Like, so it’s called Leading a Charge. And what we do, what we we’re taught, and everyone still does it today, is you just look down the way and you open your mouth to, to, to create, make sure there’s no over personalization injuries and hope your eardrums hold and eat it.

And it goes off. And sometimes you get dazed. And, you know, there were a few times where I would eat a charge and I think I was in my second or third room clearing, like really at conducting operations before I had my full wits about me. Um, so things like that, right? Uh, so that added up over time. I was fortunate to be able to hide [00:16:00] things, uh, even after like my, uh, in Afghanistan and I was, I was a, I was a 18 delta, so I was a medic.

I was a senior medic on that deployment. And I was able to patch myself up. And, you know, I don’t remember this, this, these conversations, but a couple of the teammates, like my team sergeant came up to me and they’re like, Hey, rod, you okay? And I, I told him, I said, I’m effing fine. I don’t remember saying that.

I don’t remember any of that. Um, I remember a few things, bits and pieces. But all that is to say I was able to con continue in the fight. And I never, you know, especially after I got blown up and I lost vision in my left eye, I didn’t lose my left eye. Uh, I just lost complete vision in it. I just didn’t tell anybody anything.

’cause it in my heart and my belief was I needed to stay there with the team. And, and in all actuality, the responsibilities and duties of replacing on me, I wasn’t able to fulfill at a level that they needed. So in essence, I was a liability,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

Michael Rodríguez: right? There’s, okay, what I, so all that stuff just started compounding and getting worse.

And then finally I started, uh. [00:17:00] You know, it just, it became a little bit more of a challenge for me to hide some of the signs and symptoms associated with multiple traumatic brain injuries as well as post-traumatic stress. You know, I had, I was abusing alcohol. I was not the nicest person. I was incredibly violent.

Um, I’m not saying I was violent in, in the streets or anything, but everything I did was tremendously aggressive. Uh, I was teaching at our sniper course here at, at Fort Bragg, at the special for training group. And it was just a lot. I just, it was, I was not the best person. I wasn’t the best father. I wasn’t the, at that time, I was still married to, to Kelly, the mother of my sons.

I was not the best husband. Um, and then finally, you know, some command recognized, Hey Rod, what’s going on? And I was just like, you know what? I had to come to the Lord moment and told them, and they’re like, Hey, we need to get you checked out. I got sent to get checked out and I thought I was gonna get fixed, and that’s when I got sent to Walter Reed and, and they were like, Hey, you could no longer, after they did the assessment, I had a big laundry list of, of issues, you know, uh, that are associated with multiple brain injuries, like.[00:18:00]

Um, you know, one of those people, they say that they probably have, uh, a chronic traumatic encephalopathy. You know, we looking at early onset dementia, Alzheimer’s, uh, Parkinson’s. I’ve already start already, already started to have some tremors at this point. I mean, all kinds of things. But then post-traumatic stress and they’re like, you can no longer perform your duties as a special forces of Green Beret.

We were initiating medical retirement proceedings as the exact sentence that they told me. But even after listening to them, all that stuff that they said was wrong with me, I was like, okay, well how do I fix it? ’cause I need to get back and fight. But, uh, that was ended it. So for me it was like, uh, a loss of identity and I, I, uh, um, not a good place.

You know, I was, I was definitely not in a good place, uh, uh, at that time. So I was not prepared for it because the first thing they did to me, or for me, I’d say to they, the first thing they did for me, and I’m incredibly thankful for it. Is I was sent to an inpatient treatment facility, a dual diagnosis program for post traumatic stress and chemical dependency before they could address any of [00:19:00] the medical issues that they, that they’ve, we’ve been work, I’ve been working on for 12 years.

Right. Uh, so I got sent to an inpatient facility, psychiatric facility with, you know, pajamas, slippers, no, no strings in your shoes. All of that for a four week program. Inpatient, uh, turned into an eight week program. I needed the extra training and, you know, I was on the necessary medication to get me to a level where I could start addressing some of the things.

And I’m, I’m, again, I’m, I’m incredibly thankful for that opportunity. I’m not embarrassed of it. I di, you know, uh, and that, that helped me kind of pull back a little bit and realize that maybe I still do have a future for myself. So my transition was not the best. Uh, but I’m very open about it. I’m not embarrassed with the fact that I, I, I was on, you know.

Multiple types of medication at one point, SSRIs, antipsychotics, I mean, you name it, I was, I was, they probably had me on it. And I’m thankful, I’m thankful that those things got me to a point [00:20:00] that I was able to address some of the issues I needed to address. I’m not, I’m, thankfully, I’m, I don’t need this stuff anymore.

Uh, so I’m very cautious when I talk about medications. ’cause I, I know I needed it at the time ’cause I probably wouldn’t be here had, had I not had that, that level of treatment.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, um, thank you first off for opening up and sharing about that. But, you know, looking at some people’s reaction to medications, like I, I, I’m not gonna do any kind of medications or anything. All they’re doing is throwing pills at me and, and whatever. But sometimes I, I think like in a case like yours, um, you know, myself included, um, I, I think the medication is, is necessary to bring you to a level where maybe a therapy like a, some sort of talk therapy type thing can be effective because if you’re so far off the charts with whatever it is that that’s going on with you.

The, the therapy may not be able to kind of bring you back into that, that zone where therapy’s [00:21:00] gonna be able to be effective because your, your mind is just all over the place and you, you’re having all sorts of other issues and, and the not to mention, you know, maybe if it’s drinking or drugs or whatever, someone might be on it.

It’s, it’s just gonna push you off into a different direction that you, you don’t want to be in. And so, you know, sometimes the medication is necessary and it’s not, it’s not a problem that you, you are using, uh, medication to help, um, you know, getting you to that point where you no longer need it. And, and, you know, probably, you know, maybe not even need the therapy and, and you get to that point where you’re, you’re okay, you know, maybe not, maybe some days are not great, you know, but you may have, you may have those off days, but you at least have, uh, that, that ability to have a normal day.

You know, and have a, a day that’s, you, you can wake up and you’re like, you know what, I’m, I’m glad to be here, and I’m, I’m, I’m ready to rock and roll, you know? And

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah. It, [00:22:00] it, it exactly the, the medication. And, and I, I, I should say also that, uh, I’ve, I’ve been, uh, um. I’ve been like involved in some type of athletics my entire life. I grew up playing soccer, then boxing and, and of course in my, my, my career space, it was like your, your body was your tank, right?

Like you got, it was part of your job to be in faith, uh, be in shape. So I incorporating, uh, a healthier living, uh, lifestyle, um, getting back, you know, realizing that, you know, um, if you’re in shape, you’re better able to handle life obstacles, both physical and emotional. Um, so I, I really dove right back into that because when, towards the end when I was doing that, I was like, okay, well I’m done.

And I abandoned everything. I abandoned who I was, unfortunately. And then it took me a while to figure out, to find the strengths of, you know, that I had built over time and rely on ’em. And I did, uh, I was open to a lot of things to include. You know, physical therapy, um, physical fitness, uh, because I have a balance disorder [00:23:00] too.

So like, if you give me a field sobriety test, um, I can’t pass it. Like I’m not gonna be able to pass it. I, I, I, I, I could not pass it. If I ever, you know, get pulled away and think I’m drunk, I’m gonna say they just breathalyzer, man. I’m not gonna, I can’t walk no tight ropes. Right. Um, so, but incorporating all that and taking a, being an advocate for yourself is very important.

And, and pursuing other treatment modalities, you know, I need hyperbaric therapy as well. I’ve, I, a lot of the eastern medicine, uh, focus, uh, a lot of different things. So that, that along with medicine I think really got me to the, to the point where I am today, uh, addressing hormones. Right. I, because my two fairland had been damaged so much that my body stopped producing testosterone, uh, they, my doctor told me, he goes, do you have a testosterone levels of a 2-year-old or an 80-year-old?

And you’re talking about a, a, a, you know, this is my, you know, it had been like 19 years in the Army. I’d been a, a special special forces operator for what, 12 of those years. Right. And I’m like. Oh, that’s not good. Right? He’s like, that’s horrible. That’s absolutely horrible, man. [00:24:00] So, addressing that as well with, with, uh, you know, small dosages of, of, uh, hormone replacement therapy.

Uh, definitely got me back to a level where I could function and be, you know, be a better human really. To my, my sons and, and my, my loved ones.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And you know, your story, you know, for the listeners, I don’t, I don’t think it’s, unfortunately, I don’t think it’s unique in the, the sense that like, there’s other people out there who’ve had similar issues. They’ve, they’ve been blown up. They’ve been, they’ve been, uh, you know, suffered injuries, TBIs, other physical injuries, things like that.

And sometimes they go down the wrong path and they just stay on that wrong path and, and they don’t see a way off of that path. But, I mean, your story, I mean, we we’re gonna get more into what you’re doing now, but you’ve turned this, this pain in your experiences and all the, the. Negatives that went on into something incredible, and I wanna talk about that now.

Let’s talk, I wanna talk about the, uh, the memorial, the Global War on Terrorism [00:25:00] Memorial. Um, you know, so you obviously served during that time period. Uh, you know, I served a lot, many of us served, um, probably most of the audience has, has served in the, in the global war on terrorism. Right. Um, you know, and, and then you, uh, took some of those experiences and, uh, you know, turned it into something pretty damn cool.

So, uh, tell us about the Global War on Terrorism Memorial. How, how you got involved with it, how the, where the idea came from and, and kind of where all, all this, uh, came from.

Michael Rodríguez: Absolutely. Um, yeah, I think, I think it’s important for all of us that have have been touched by this incredibly complex and difficult to define multi-generational war. Um, you know, we have to understand our experiences, our own, and they’re so unique to ourselves. And, you know, even with my experiences of like my 21 years of service, my multiple deployments, my, uh, my, you know, the mother of my children, um, you know, we’re no longer married, but you know, Kelly, she served for 21 [00:26:00] years, deployed six times.

So I stayed home with the kids, uh, while she would go off and serve. And she was a combat medic involved. And I mean, I think she’s seen a lot more comment than a lot of dudes I know. But, um, and then on my son, right, like our most typical deployment was watching Antonio deploy to the helmet province of Afghanistan.

A place I had been to twice, she had been to twice. And we were looking at that that day and I’m like, looking for a moment of consolation and I was just like, alright, maybe this is what my dad felt like, you know, or, but then I thought more about it. Like, nah, there’s no way, uh, he could understand what this would be like.

Not to diminish his, his, how he felt watching me go to war, but what would’ve been like for my dad to watch me graduate Airborne school and go fight the via cong? Or it would’ve been like for my grandfather, watch my father complete his artillery training in Forks of Oklahoma and then go fight Nazis or serve in the Pacific.

But when I say it like that, that’s striking. People are like, oh my gosh. Well, guess what? That’s a reality for a very, very small percentage of our families. You know, you come from a family of service, you know, [00:27:00] um, so it’s, it’s incredibly difficult, uh, and, and challenging. But we have to understand that this is incredibly complex.

Uh, even our own community is ignorant on a lot of things. It’s one war. People call them wars. Well, there was different theaters. At no time did we ever consider a single operation of war unless it was a single operation. It was, and that was what it conducted. And it was over afterwards. Now, no one ever considers, uh, operation Overlord, the Normandy invasion named operation its own separate war.

At what point do we start considering operation into Freedom, Iraq, freedom, new Dawn, inherent resolve, et cetera, et cetera. Operations conducted under the auspices of Warren Terrorism. Authorized by the A OMF authorization News military force signed September 18th, 2001, which empowers the president of the United States to wage war to fight terrorism globally.

That’s the global war on terrorism. So we can’t, people still don’t even understand that, you know, and it’s a, there’s, there’s a steep learning curve, um, working on this project with educating everybody on it because it is a very small [00:28:00] percent, there’s a tremendous amount of ignorance, but just reminding everybody that, look, our mission here at the, at the Gah Memorial Foundation is to, to honor the people.

I don’t dive into policy or politics. I don’t, I stay out of that because you and I didn’t write the policy that sent us to war, nor were we involved in the political decisions that were conducted as people. That’s where we zero in on. So the foundation came about, uh, in. 2015. Uh, we’re a 5 0 1 C3. Now, why is it a charity to build a National War memorial?

Uh, well that’s the vessel to build national memorials, war memorials and museums in Washington. That’s, which is pretty great if you think about it, because it gives the opportunity for the people to have a voice. So, uh, they came together in 2015. There was a, a couple, few different people thinking about doing it, trying it.

One person had purchased doing main names. Uh, one person had talked to someone who had built one before. Another person was thinking about it, but then maybe was going on to build [00:29:00] a, a traveling one. I mean, there was, well a group of them came together. Uh, they known each other and I’m not one of the founders.

I get, you know, tell people that, uh, they came together in 2015 and tried to build, to come together and figure that out. In 2016, I met some of the board, uh, some of their board members. I was speaking at an event and they’re like, Hey Rod, you know, we could really use some help. And I’m like, what are you guys doing?

They explained it to me and I was just thinking about it and. You know, my oldest son was getting ready to list and I was like, man, that’s, I had been outta the army a couple years, you know? Um, my wife at the time, Kelly was still in and I’m like, man, you know what? Alright, I’ll help. So then I joined the team in 2016 on a member as on the board of directors.

Our first obstacle was to get exemption from a federal law that says A war has to be over for 10 years before a national war memorial can be built. Now that law was written in 1986 and I don’t fault congress for approving and passing that law in 86 ’cause no one forecast it be in this protracted war with potentially no end in sight.

So we [00:30:00] introduced the bill early in 2017. It swept through the House and Senate. In August of 2017, president Trump signed that bill into law and that’s when this small fledging 5 0 1 C3 were very little to no money of, of veterans and family members. Um. You know, that’s when they handed us the staff.

They’re like, okay, you, you, now, it’s your job. You do it. So no one else can, anyone else could have done it to this point, but you’re the ones that are charged with doing it. You have the designation, that’s, that’s your job. You’re authorized to organize, fundraise, and build the national, do you want memorial in Washington DC from this good idea fairy, um, became like, oh, how do you do that?

Just think for a second. How do you build a national warm war? Like what do you, unless you do it, you don’t know how to do it. You can read about it, but unless you do it, you just know how to do it because everything is different. And so there’s a, it’s a 24 step process. We follow the same roadmap that museums do, and it, it, you know, at that time it was, it [00:31:00] was late 2017, um, was trying to fig figure things out.

The foundation was like in a, in a, a little bit of growth point and. Uh, well, not a little, but a really big growth point for us. Um, right after that, that’s when, you know, the, I stepped into the leadership position in 2018 and started to build the team that you see today. You know, the founders, uh, got us to that point and they continue to support throughout the way.

Uh, and, you know, they’re, they’re doing great, tremendous things, you know, uh, across America with their own businesses and corporate America, raising families, you know, we would not be here had, had it not been there for their foresight. Um, so in 2018, I started to build a team that if you minimum goes to the website that you’ll see today.

You know, I’m always, there’s three things I’ve always looked for in building this team. Uh, these apply to you, Scott. Uh, one is ability. Alright? A lot of people want help, but what can you do? What are you gonna bring? You know, like, how can you support this person ability? The second thing is credibility.

Alright, well, kind of like what, do you work well with others? Uh, what’s, is there some stuff, are you going to detract from the mission? Um, what’s, [00:32:00] what’s, what is there? And the third thing, if there were pillars, it’d be my center pillar. And that’s humility. Do you understand that no matter what your experience is in the G wat, it’s got nothing to do with you.

Right? It’s part of something bigger, um, which you have exhibited, uh, you know, uh, throughout your po entire podcast career, right? Um, so that being said, we started to build the team. Um, the, I’ll shorten this a little bit. So nothing new has been approved to be built on the National Mall since 2003. And then they said it was, uh, deemed it a finished work of art.

So they were gonna build this memorial. They were like, okay, we gotta find a site outside the mall to build it like the Eisenhower memorials behind the Air Space Museum World of One Memorial is, you know, uh, off to the side of the White House, uh, grounds, you know, they gotta find, they, they were talking about maybe Roosevelt Island and no one, most people never even go to Roosevelt Island.

And so, you know, we started speaking with our stakeholders and everyone felt it belonged on the mall. And that’s when I’m like, well, I guess I gotta go back to Congress. Uh, so I met with the. The agencies that [00:33:00] control the space told them, Hey, we, we wanna build this on the reserve, is what it’s called, the mall.

They’re like, rod, you can’t, and I, I know the law says you can’t. And I said, well, you, you, I can or you don’t think I can. ’cause if I pass a bill, we can. They’re like, right, look, this is 2019 at this point. And they’re like, rod, look, everybody’s tried, people with a lot more money and influence have tried and they failed.

We’re gonna fight you every step away because it is against the law. And I respect them for their jobs. They do, they follow the law. They follow the law to the letter. And I respect them for that. And they just didn’t think we would be able to do that. Everyone had tried and I’m like, well, I’m, I’m not asking permission from you.

I’m just letting you know what we’re doing. We’ve always been open and transparent in everything we’ve done. Then I sought out veteran leadership in the House and Senate to assist us. And I went to our, our brothers and sisters that are been selected by the people of America on, and again, I speak people not policy or politics.

So we introduced a bill, um, with the Republican and Democrat in the house and the Senate. To seek the exemption and just again, focusing [00:34:00] on people, not policy or politics. We were, you know, two and a half years later after that, uh, you know, president Biden signed that, that bill into law and granted us the exemption to be build the memorial, which is just adjacent to the Lincoln.

So that’s the it which is a tremendous success for us. With that, a current to that, we’ve been working on our design, which is a very different approach, um, as well as the selection of our designer, which we announced this last October at MIC actually. And you know, I’m excited to share with you that hopefully here pretty soon we’ll be able to show everybody the design that we’ve been working on with our design advisory council.

A, a council of stakeholders that have engaged directly with our designer on as the vessel of the voice to create the design. And they’ve also taken into consideration this survey. I started, I started collecting this data in 2018 and. Basically input, like design data. Uh, we launched it publicly. I only had like 200 people fill it out.

They’re sitting in my fire safe here at the [00:35:00] house. But, uh, I wanted to be able to get all 50 states and every demographic from World War II to today to get a voice so we could see what took the pulse of, of those that, you know, love our nation’s, uh, war fighters and their families. And, you know, really excited that, uh, we, it was a five to seven minute survey.

It was asking a lot, right? Everyone’s attention span is 30 to 60 seconds these days. Really excited to say we succeeded. And the two goals that I had set was we got people from all 50 states. We got every demographic from World War two today, we got all the services, um, but then the number of people that filled it out is 20,000.

So all that is put into a document and the datas exist, and the designers took that into consideration. So with the design and our council, we’re getting ready to, uh, reveal what this, what our, uh, memorial will be looking like. Prisa.

Scott DeLuzio: That, that’s awesome. And I’m excited to see it. I, I haven’t seen it yet and I don’t, I don’t know what it looks like, but I’m excited to see it. Um, because I, it, it’s one of those things where just kind of [00:36:00] sharing a little, uh, background on why I was so enthusiastic about wanting to, uh, join you guys. When you guys approached me and asked me to join as one of the fellows, I, I was like, this is, this is awesome.

I love what you guys were doing when I, I was at m and I heard what you guys were doing. I was like, hell yeah. This is awesome. You know, uh, it really got me fired up. Um, and then, then we met and we, we were, we were chatting for a little bit and it was, it was just a great time. But, um, you know, so I, I was in, uh, DC in 2019.

Uh, president Trump had, uh, invited some gold star families to the White House, and my family was one of them. So we, we got a chance to go to the White House and meet the president, and, and they had a whole ceremony, which, which was completely awesome. It was, it was just like a, you know, very surreal experience, uh, getting there.

But I went for a run, uh, one morning and I, I went, you know, around the White House, around the mall, stopped at all the war memorials, and, and as I was going through, I. I stopped at each one and I was [00:37:00] thinking, where the hell is ours? You know, where, where is our memorial? And come to find out, uh, all these years later, uh, it was in the works and it, it was, it was being, uh, you know, put together.

And I, I kind of suspected that it was one of those, those things where it was like, uh, you know, X number of years after, you know, the war is over, that’s when they can build the memorial. And the war technically wasn’t over yet. So, um, you know, the, obviously there wasn’t gonna be anything there, but, um, it, it, for me, I was like, I, I really don’t want to be 85, 90 years old having to be pushed off a plane in a wheelchair to go check out the memorial for the war that I served in, you know, or, or even worse, not be here anymore and, and not be able to see that type of thing, which I know happened to, uh, many, you know, world War II or, you know, even earlier World War I.

And, and those, those veterans, they, they never got a chance to see the memorial that was built for them. And so, um, you know, I’m. Super excited to be a part of it. And, uh, I, I think this is gonna be, uh, truly incredible, [00:38:00] uh, memorial. Uh, we’re gonna, we’re gonna be the best. We’re, we’re gonna blow ’em all away.

Um, but, um, you know, tell us more about the project. I know there’s, there’s a lot going into it and, and some people, you know, who aren’t intimately involved in the process might just think, well, okay, we’ll get some land and a, get someone to build it and just go do it. Right? And, but there’s a lot more to it.

There’s, um, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, funded through donations. It’s a, you know, got, got a whole design process that, that you have to go through. Uh, tell us a little bit about the project. Like where, where is it at now and what, what’s left? What, what is it that you need to do to make this a reality?

Michael Rodríguez: Absolutely. So, um, this is entirely privately funded. Um, you know, meaning we can’t receive any federal tax dollars. Those people are like, well, why not? Why, why could we? Well, I, you know, at first that the, and our, our enabling legislation states that no federal funding will be used. So we we’re, we can’t get it.

Like if the, you know, the government’s [00:39:00] like, Hey, here’s X dollars. You, we, we couldn’t, they wouldn’t do it. And, you know, if you really think about that is, um, some people have different opinions on, on, well, it should. They, they made the, well, it’s still taxpayer dollars. Uh, and you know, they, they’re, I call myself the bullet magnet, uh, for the foundation.

I’ve been doing this, you know, damn near a decade now. So I get all the crazy and colorful messages from people that are just don’t like. The effort. They don’t, they have opinions, they have emotions attached and they should, we’re talking about a war, right? So I, I welcome it. Um, but the reason I say that is some of the messages I get, particularly from our community is like, why are we spending money on this?

We should be fighting veteran homelessness. We should be fighting veteran. Who’s that? We should be fighting. And I agree with them, but who’s we?

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Michael Rodríguez: Who’s we? Unless I, I just provide opportunities for people to donate who’s, who’s the we? I I’m not receiving any taxpayer dollars. So what, what that do, what that dos, what that does is, uh, it allows those that want to [00:40:00] step forward and help and support and donate, okay?

Those, I I, you know, I use the term investors, right? They’re, they’re investing in something. It’s not a don there’s donors, not a bad word, but I, I prefer to look at them as all as investors. We’re building something together, right? So, um, entirely privately funded. It, it, I mentioned earlier, it’s 24 step process.

We’re currently in steps 13 through 19, which is design. Um. Approval, uh, design concept approval, and then schematic approval. Now, during this phase right here, we’re, we’re gonna unveil our design that I had to get the concept approved by a few of the government agencies that oversee this Commission of Fine Arts, national Capital Planning Commission, a National Capital Memorial Advisory Commission are the big three that we’ll meet with.

And then go over this, and they’ll have their own opinions and views. Uh, you know, they look at them as curators in the mall. They’re especially like National Park Service. They’re the future owners. This is National Parks Land. Um, so [00:41:00] it’s not mine. I didn’t have to buy the land. It’s, I had to pass a piece of legislation to build it where it’s at.

It’s gonna be granted. So they said we could build it in DC but where it landed depended on. A lot of, a lot of variables. But when we pass the second bill to built it on the mall, that automatically is okay. It’s gonna probably gonna be National Park Service Land. And the site we located that we’re at is, actually, it’s an NPS.

So those, all those agencies, and especially National Park Service, there are forever partners, right? Those NPS is they, I I’m building. They’re the ones that can be responsible on the day of dedication for maintenance and upkeep. It’s not us. We are just, we will task with, uh, organizing, fundraising and building the memorial.

And then, you know, we’ll run programming at the site as all the other foundations do for each of the respective memorials that they built. But it, it belongs to them. It belonged to the people of America. So, going through, that’s the steps we’re in right now. Uh, we’re gonna unveil the design here. [00:42:00] Uh, as I mentioned, um, you know, sometime here pretty soon, hopefully, as we are refining some things that we, we’ve seen, I.

And then we’ll get the, get it approved design approved design concept. It’s schematic approved. And then once we have everything done, we will be, we will conduct a financial audit and they’ll make sure we have sufficient funds to complete the project. Because it makes sense. The process is very, is it’s very hard.

It’s a, it’s a, it’s a really challenging, but it makes sense because they don’t want us to dig a big hole and be like, oh, we ain’t got enough money. Then the taxpayer has to step in and it’s just a nightmare. Right. So we’ll go through financial audit, prove we have 110% of total construction costs on hand.

That 10% is not for any type of unforeseen overages. The government just takes that, places it in a trust and, and what they say is it goes towards any repair of the memorial for any catastrophic repairs. Uh, but it goes into the US Treasury, then the remaining funds. Okay. We, we will then begin. We can stick one shovel.

That’s when we can [00:43:00] start digging. Um, and it’s about an 18 to 24 month build process. So what did all that mean in a timeline? So we hope to be able to have concept approved and total funds raised while our current goal is 110 million by the end of next year, end of 26. Um, and then start digging by Q1 2027.

Be done by the end of 28.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay,

Michael Rodríguez: That’s our, that’s our, that’s our current timeline right now. Right. And there’s, again, I’m dealing with the federal government. There’s a lot of things that can occur. There’s a lot of variables. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s entirely privately funded. The, the fundraising aspects a giant hurdle.

It terrifies me every single day when I think about it. But when we think about it, also, it’s important for me to mention, I don’t think I mentioned it yet, is, uh, you know, we are honoring everyone that served right. A lot of people don’t know the very first KIA, the very first, uh, American, that loss of life as a result of enemy, uh, enemy engagement was Johnny Michael Span.

Mike, [00:44:00] you know, he worked for the CIA Special Activity division. He was part, he was one of the C-I-C-I-A guys with Team Alpha that was inserted with the, you know, my, my brothers, the SF guys that from fifth group that were the first ones on the ground. Right? Um, first military boots on the ground. Um, what about them?

Right? But no one even talks about that, you know, and it wasn’t until 2019 the Department of Labor published a report that, to try to see how many losses, uh, non-uniform individuals, that number’s pretty easy to find. DODs really good at tracking that. But how many people have we lost that weren’t in the military?

I, I would go on target, you know, every time, and there were people dressed like me, looking like me, carrying the same stuff I was carrying. Um, they weren’t in the Army, they weren’t in the Navy, they weren’t in the military. They were, whether they were working for one of our three letter agency partners or some other capacity, uh, they were out there in bullets and bombs were indiscriminate.

So. Back to that report, the Department of Labor published. ’cause they’re the ones that are responsible for [00:45:00] tracking that data They published in 2019 and they found that over 3,400 non individuals to the best of their knowledge, lost their lives in support of this incredibly complex war. Right? And pause for a second and think about those families like damn.

And anybody that’s deployed, knows for a fact, you know how many fobs or fire bases you’ve been on, like who’s, who’s, who’s there, who’s bringing you the stuff in the trucks, right? It’s some, some, some guy from Oregon that wants to, can drive a truck and he’s making money for his family. And that’s his motivations.

Whether it was to support, however, whatever, whatever his motivations are, doesn’t matter. He’s there in a war zone supporting this incredibly complex war. We mobilized in so many different ways that people don’t even talk about it and they don’t realize it. And they forget and fail, or fail to realize that that’s the reason why it takes, we only have 1% that serve. We have men and women performing a wartime mission in a high threat environment that was once performed by one of us in uniform. That isn’t anymore. I’m not saying that’s [00:46:00] bad. I’m not. Just not it. Again, going back to people. I talk about the people. I talk about those that are served and sacrifice. So it’s inclusive of everybody.

But we’re also gonna do more than just talk about what occurred in theater because of, of, of all my friends that I’ve lost that aren’t here anymore, um, because of their service in the global war on terrorism, 10 of them lost the war at home.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

Michael Rodríguez: Some through illness and some at their own hands.

Scott DeLuzio: Yep.

Michael Rodríguez: You know, the Vietnam Memorial in 2002 or oh three, uh, dedicate, put a plaque at the base of those three soldiers that overlooked the Vietnam Memorial.

Honoring that those that have lost their, their lives to, to whether it was Agent Orange, uh, my father, thankfully he’s still with us. That’s something he deals with every single day, or that that lost their, you know, that took their own lives. You know, we’re, we’re doing everything The war comes home for anybody who’s done that understands that, and why not talk about it, why not recognize it and, and also address the family aspects.

I’ve said it like, the most difficult deployment, [00:47:00] uh, weren’t any of the ones I did. It was watching my loved ones go to war. So doing more than just, oh, let’s, for the family, you know, we’re, let’s talk about that. Let’s share their stories as well. Let’s talk about, you know, those children that are around today that don’t remember, you know, the, the parent that they lost, you know, so it’s, it’s, it’s all inclusive.

It’s very, very important for us to tell the whole story about the people that have fought this war.

Scott DeLuzio: and that was one of the things that I really liked about the way you guys are approaching it, that we are approaching this, it, it’s hard for me to think of myself as part of this group now, but it, it, it is, I am, um, at this point. So it’s, sometimes I’ll, I’ll slip and I’ll say you guys, but it’s, it’s us.

You know? It’s all of us. And, um, but that’s one of the things I, I like the most of, um, uh, of how you’re approaching this is, uh, is is that, um, it’s inclusive of everybody who. Was involved, was touched in some way, shape or form. Um, I had Megan, uh, Taylor on a, a little [00:48:00] while ago for, um, you know, she’s one of the gold star fellows, uh, gold star child.

Um, she lost her, her, um, her dad in, uh, in combat. And, um, you know, she’s a part of this too. And because her story matters and, you know, the, the sacrifices that she made and her family made that those things matter. And it’s not just her, like she’s the only one who matters, but it’s people like her because plenty of children lost their parents, uh, in, in this, uh, in this conflict.

And so. Uh, we have to look at that like, like those people matter too. And, uh, so that, that’s a, a piece of the story, um, of, of, of the larger picture of this story, right? Yeah. You can talk about an individual battle and the individual soldier on the battlefield and what he went through, but back home he had a mother and a father and a, you know, siblings and aunts and uncles and, and whatever, who were worried about that person.

And those people matter too. And so, [00:49:00] yeah, going back to the people aspect of it is that those people and their stories, they matter too. It, it’s not just the men and women who didn’t make it home, or the men and women who went and fought the war or any of that. It’s, it’s everybody and that it’s all inclusive.

And that, that’s something I really loved about, uh, the way this is being approached. Um,

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah. I, I think if we tell, I think if we tell more of these stories, those that didn’t serve will realize that we’re not different than you. We’re really not, you know, we made certain choices, uh, did certain things, may have experienced and seen some different stuff, but we’re not different. You know, if you wanna see the strength of this nation, I want you to look at those that have served.

I want you to look at those that served for something. We, we sure as heck didn’t do it for money. I didn’t do it to get famous. Um, you know, we, we, we gave a lot, you know, I had a lot of job satisfaction. I’ll be quite honest. I loved what I did. I loved my job. But we didn’t do that. So having the [00:50:00] voice, uh, is, is of the people is very important so they can recognize, and the more these stories we tell ’em, like, wow, they’ll identify, they realize we’re not, that, we’re not that different than most.

And even for the design, the reason I, I decided to pursue the design and the way we pursued it was ’cause I always wondered how many Vietnam veterans that Maylin talk to, she’s the designer of the Vietnam Wall. You know, I don’t know. I, I’ll be honest, I don’t know how many she did talk to, and even with my experience, and I, I, I consider myself an artist as well, and I, I, I work in steel and do some different things.

I, I couldn’t design it because my view would be so skewed to my own personal experiences. Even if I listened to everybody else, I couldn’t capture that. So. The, the design team has been very important that they, we brought in a world class team that could step into this, probably the most difficult place to build anything in the United States.

Maybe the world, I don’t know. I mean, um, with 20 layers of bureaucracy and politics that can, with the gravitas, experience, professionalism, and possessing those three attributes. I always look for ability, credibility, and humility. Um, we [00:51:00] ended up with the team so they could sit there and listen to our stakeholders.

They could, they really went through the, the data that we gave them on the 20,000 people that filled out the survey. They listened and sat through the design advisory council engagements and engaged and had back and forth. And before they did that for months before they even put pen to paper, they, that was part of it.

So capturing that was very important and having the voice, so when people go there, it’s not, rod didn’t design it. No, I, I just tried to manage it. Right. It wasn’t any single member of, of our team that, oh, this is what we want. No. No, it’s not. And, and I’m, I’m very excited to show everybody, um, when we get, when we get to that point, what, what this will look like.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. What does it mean to you personally? Uh, the, the memorial?

Michael Rodríguez: Man, I’m a pretty boring guy. Um, I do this and, um, you [00:52:00] know, try to try, you know, and spend time with my, my two grandsons or my sons. That’s pretty much it. So it just, you know, this is my focus 24 7, 365. It’s been for quite some time. And I, I, I only say that to, you know, maybe add credence to me saying, I, I, I don’t have the words and you think I should because this is what I do mostly. I don’t,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

Michael Rodríguez: I, I don’t, I don’t have the words to say what this means. I, I’ve tried, I’ve struggled. People ask me that, started asking me that question pretty recently. And I, I don’t, uh, other than it’s, personally, I’ll say personally for me, it’s, it’s my opportunity to continue to serve this nation, um, in my own way, in my own humble way.

And through, through the resources and, and, and, and, uh, that I have resources with people. I’ve always valued personal relationships over, um, professional relationships. And that’s, that’s, those are the people that I’ve, I’ve brought [00:53:00] to this table. Everyone that’s come in sitting at this table has those attributes I mentioned a couple of times.

So I, I think it’s my opportunity to bring some amazing people together and to, to write that, you know, visible, physical, tangible, um, love letter to our nation’s greatest asset, which is the men and women that step forward, serve us all and, and serve us to the point where they’re willing to sacrifice their lives and the families that support them.

Uh, it’s my way to thank them. You know, when, when I started working on this project. The people that pushed back most was us, was our own community. They like, Ron, why are you doing that? We don’t need that. Nah, I don’t need that. I don’t need that. And I thought about it. I’m like, damn. I was like, what do you mean?

Like, ’cause I wasn’t thinking about me, I was thinking about them. But when I talk about it to people, they think about, I don’t need that. So it took me a couple years to figure this out and I’m like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I know what they’re doing. They’re thinking about, I don’t need that recognition.

So I [00:54:00] start, when people would tell me that, I’d say, okay. And people still tell me that. I say, all right, if you don’t think you need it, I want you to think of somebody that maybe didn’t come home. I want you to think about their families, even if you knew them or not. I want you to think about those you may know, have you served with that are struggling right now?

Do they deserve it? Every single person I’ve, I’ve posed that question. They’re like, absolutely. I said, good. That’s what I want you to think. I’ll think about you. ’cause that’s how we serve. That’s what we do. That goes back to what I, what we started talking about my, my, my father and, and grandfathers and, and theos my uncles.

They talk about those, they serve with. It’s the people they don’t think about themselves. They always talk about those they serve with. So in essence, when I reframe it or re make them look at it from that lens, they, they, they understand the reason why. And it, it is my belief, my profound belief that once we’ll be able to do this and we can unveil this, [00:55:00] then this nation will take a knee in reverence and honor those that have given so much, those that they, you know, those that don’t feel they need it. So we can impart value onto them. Because, you know what, if someone feels valued in what they’re not gonna do, they’re not gonna kill themselves.

Scott DeLuzio: right.

Michael Rodríguez: Right? So this memorial is gonna say lodge. So that’s when people ask me, like, what you ask me is like, what does this mean? I go, it provides me an opportunity to serve, to thank.

Yeah, if I would to surmise that to thank our nation’s greatest asset and, and to save them to, to, to keep them around.

Scott DeLuzio: absolutely. Um, you know, I, I know a lot of GWOT veterans have struggled with, with things like what you talked about, your transition out of the, the military coming back into society and, uh, you know, just, just struggling with that, especially with a rather sudden, you know, I, I’ve found, I’ve talked to [00:56:00] many people who’ve been medic, medically retired from the military, and. It, it, it’s like a usually abrupt, it’s not like a, a thing that, that takes place over the course of years that you are, uh, able to plan for. It’s usually like, Hey, you know what, uh, light switch is going off and you’re, you’re out, you’re done. You know, and, and so they, they struggle with that. Um, but they also struggle with things like, you know, the withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Um, you know, like how that, that took place. And, uh, you know, not, not to get into politics. I know that’s not what, what we’re, we’re doing here, and that’s not what I, that’s not my intention with bringing this up either. Um, but it, it stings, you know, that those types of things sting when, when you see that, you know, the, the war that we fought was to go and, uh, you know, kick ass against the Taliban and then the Taliban just kind of walks in almost, almost seemingly, like nothing really happened.

And it’s back to business as usual over there. And, um, I. That stings. I know, I know. At first, for me, it stung and, [00:57:00] uh, I was, I was really angry at, at how that happened. But, um, my, my thought is that, you know, being able to see a memorial like this is, is a way that, um, people will be able to maybe get some healing and closure, um, seeing that, hey, you know what, someone actually gives a damn about what we did.

Right?

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah. And, and that’s what it is, like showing them that, that know we give a shit, right? This nation does. They, they really do. I, I know I do. I know you, I you do. Um, but to tell them and remind them of that because they, they, they don’t, and, you know, to, to talk about like what, you know, withdrawal from Afghanistan or whatever people wanna call it, you know, I’ve got my own personal opinions on that.

Um, very strong ones, uh, we’ll be honest. Uh, but they remind those, you know, uh, all of us that feel that way, and especially those that were involved in that is they didn’t make the decisions. They didn’t write the policy. Going back to what I, I’ve said several times [00:58:00] is this is about people not policy or politics.

I don’t understand that I’ll, I’ll never, I presume to know, have all the information or, or know why certain decisions are made. Um, with information I don’t have or may never have. I don’t know that, but I do know why if my nation calls, if my, when I was served, my nation called and I was sent, yes, I did it, but when it came down to it, I wasn’t doing it for some foreign national policy.

I was doing it ’cause of my familia and my left and right. Right. Which, which was my motivation to after I, especially my, my appointment oh six, where I like, I’m like legally blind. I’m like, Nope, I’m gonna stay. I’m gonna stay. And, and people ask me like, damn, how did you, they think it’s like, some people say, man, that’s pretty amazing.

I go, no, but they’re like, how did you do that? And I’m like, well, I think everyone can understand. If I say it like this, I don’t think anybody that got injured, if they had the opportunity to go back or opportunity to hide it and continue on, would’ve done anything different. Right? Think about it this way, like if you’re, everyone, probably everyone’s played kickball at some point in their life, right?

[00:59:00] Imagine you’re eight years old, you’re playing kickball, and you’re just killing it. Your team is doing really well. You’re running in between bases. You fall down and skin your knee. Are you gonna stop playing kickball? Hell no. You’re gonna keep playing kickball. So that was all I did. As I said, I loved my job.

Um, and, and, and that’s, that’s how it is. But like, I’m serving and doing what it was for there was I affecting national policy? I don’t know. I, I like to think maybe, um, I don’t know. I’ve, I’ve since become far more educated in that realm with, with my pursuit of higher education and my, my bachelor’s and masters.

But, um, I, I go back to that young 18-year-old kid in Somalia and, you know, seeing those smiles, I’m like, all right, I may have impacted someone just for that day. And every, if that, if everything I did helped a child, a family, some people, a village, a, a region for a day. Okay, I, I, I’m, I’m okay with that.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And there’s a, a saying, [01:00:00] I’ve, I’ve heard this, that you may not have changed the world with that action, but you may have changed the world for that person. You know, that may, may have made a world of difference for that one person. And so for all the, the folks who served, uh, you know, in Afghanistan, we’re just talking about that withdrawal and how people, you know, may be upset with how that, that happened.

Um, you know, yeah, sure. Maybe we didn’t change the world. Yeah, but we changed the world for some, some of those people who we, we affected the schools that got built, the, the children that got educated, the, uh, the infrastructure that got put in place that made life better for those people. Uh, the, the fact that they didn’t have to live under the tyranny of the Taliban for, uh, the, the time that we were able to keep them at bay.

Um, they had that little glimpse of freedom and, uh, they, while yeah, sure, maybe we didn’t change the world and it didn’t change everything for everybody forever, um, it, it changed stuff for enough people for that, [01:01:00] that period of time that it’s like, you know what? It was worth it. Um, because some, there are some people who may have never been able to know what it was like to live without the Taliban, had we not.

Showed up. And so, um, you know, we, yeah, sure there, it was a country at war. There were a lot of bombs and a lot of bullets flying and, you know, things like that. But we, we did make a difference. And, um, you know, I don’t let anyone tell you any different, you know, we, we did, we did some good stuff there. So,

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, I I think, uh, additionally, on top of all this, I, I wanna make sure that this, this memorial is not just for the men and women and the families and the, the people who were a part of this, uh, this conflict.

I wanna make sure that it, it’s one of those enduring things that last and, uh, educates the future generations about [01:02:00] the sacrifices, the, about the service, about the, the things that, that people had to do during this, this time period, uh, that we, we call the global War on terrorism. Um, I wanna make sure that those people are.

Um, knowledgeable and educated, um, you know, a about what we did, and so it doesn’t become forgotten and that we don’t repeat mistakes, and so that we, you know, so that these things are, are enduring. It, it just lasts now forever because we’ll have a memorial there. And I, I think, I think that this is a possible way to do that is, is having that memorial that, you know, families will visit when they’re on vacation in DC or, you know, hopefully some, uh, you know, policy makers, uh, you know, congressmen and senators and stuff.

They’ll, they’ll see it at, at some point. And, and even future presidents, they’ll see it too. And hopefully when they’re directing troops, they’ll, they’ll be like, you know what? Let, let’s make sure [01:03:00] this is, this is worth it. And, and this is, uh, you know, I think a good reminder of that

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah, I, I, I agree. It, it’s, it’s, uh, you know, there isn’t a reminder in the city that makes the decisions and writes the policies. It sends our sons and daughters, mothers and fathers off the fight. Um, there isn’t, and you know, it, I’m excited to, to be able to provide that opportunity and, and have a continued engagement.

Like you, like you mentioned, this is the only war, you know, where our sons and daughters watch their mothers and fathers go off to fight in the war, only to serve in that same war. Um, that’s never happened before. So you’re talking about two, two completely different generations right now that we can reach out and touch and continue to educate.

And if you think about that, that’s pretty profound. You know? And, and this memorial itself is challenging everybody on, on the concept of a memorial. And I, I’ve told people like, look, it’s is, yes, it’s, it’s a war memorial, but this is a warrior’s memorial that’s, it’s to the warriors. It really is the warriors and, and, and their families, those warrior [01:04:00] families.

It’s, it’s a warrior memorial and people get wrapped up into it and yeah, it’s war, it’s gonna be real. It’s, we’re not, we’re not, I’m not putting kitten mittens on when we start telling this and some of the design aspects when we come out, some people may not like, um, but we’re not going to it. It’s, we’re not gonna not tell the whole story.

Um, but it’s actually, if you think about those war memorials, why do we fight and we fight for peace. In order to maintain peace, you need people that are willing to deliver violence onto those that would deliver violence onto us. And those are very special people in a number of different ways. They’re very valued, which is why I consider our most cherish asset.

We don’t honor them. If we don’t show them well, then who the hell’s gonna do it in the future?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Michael Rodríguez: Uh, so this is, this is a Warrior’s Memorial and we will have, you know, so many opportunities to continue telling those stories. All of these stories.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I remember, uh, when I was in Afghanistan, uh, one of our interpreters asked me like, what are you doing here? Like, why are you here? Me specifically, like, [01:05:00] why, why are you here? And one of those things that, that I said was, I don’t want my son to have to come here and, and do this. Like, I, if he does come here, I want him to be able to come here.

Uh, as a tourist, as someone who can come and, and visit a place. And, um, you know,

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: unfortunately, I don’t think that’s gonna be the case, but at least he doesn’t have to go there, you know, with, with a gun and, and, you know, a pack on his back and, you know, dressed in funny fatigues, you know, he doesn’t have to, he doesn’t have to do all that stuff.

Uh, unfortunately for you and your family, that that was reality and that that’s something that did have to happen. And, um, you know, I, I wanted, I wanted it to be, I wanted that war to be over the second I stepped foot off, off of that, off off of that country, you know? Um, I wanted it to be over then, but it, you know, unfortunately things, things don’t work out quite that way.

But, um, you know, it’s, yeah, it, it, it, it’s a lot. But, um, this

Michael Rodríguez: And I, I think,

Scott DeLuzio: ahead.[01:06:00]

Michael Rodríguez: no, I, I, I think what I, what I, I worry that our population does is we devalue our individual service,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Rodríguez: by doing so, and that’s, this is the counter to that, right? That’s why I say I wanna be able to like, no, look, you, you matter, right? Whether you feel it or not, I’m telling you. Uh, that’s why I do it.

Like I, man, I get, I get all kinds of crazy messages and people I, you know, uh, it’s not, it’s really interesting. And, and you know, God bless ’em, I wish ’em the best and I don’t, I’m not judging anybody, right? This is, gotta remember what we’re talking about here, but. I, it, it’s important. It’s very, it’s vital.

It’s more than important. It’s vital that we understand that we, you know, this, that, that they really are, you really are our, our part of our, our nation’s greatest asset. Um, because the one asset we can’t ever get back is time. And when you add up the time that so many of us have given, um, and the time that we’ll never see again for those that made our, the ultimate [01:07:00] sacrifice, I mean, there’s man, that’s, you can’t put a value on that.

And it, it requires our best. And it’s just why I’m so, uh, maniacal or, or committed, uh, or focused on getting this done in spite of all the nos. People keep have told me in the past like, wow, that’s impossible. You’re not gonna be able to do that. There’s no way. Like, I, I can’t. I, you know, I should write a book someday and put all those, all those, all those emails, redact information, but all the colorful messages, I should throw those in a book someday, um, just for people to read it, not just ’cause it’s, it’s really interesting.

Um, and I’ve learned a lot from them. But just it’s, it’s important for, for this, this incredibly sacred, um, mission to be accomplished as soon as possible.

Scott DeLuzio: I think the best way to get any kind of, um, any soldier, uh, of, of any branch, you know, I, I’m using the term soldier, generically warrior, maybe a better term, uh, any, any way, uh, to get a job done is tell ’em it’s impossible. [01:08:00] That can’t be done. ’cause they’re gonna be like, you know what? Screw that is getting

Michael Rodríguez: Uh, I, I, I like to listen to experts in the space, but like how some of the times I was told it was impossible, like to ride a lot more people with a lot more money and a lot more info like the condescension. I’m like, damn. Okay. And. You know, I’m, I’m, I, I, I’ll, I, I, I love it when someone underestimates me, right?

Even when I used, I, I used to, you know, um, fight right? Like with boxing as a kid or some of the other stuff I did, uh, afterwards, right? I would love it when I would step in there and the person I’m, I’m going against think, oh, I’m gonna take him, right. I’m not, I’m not a big scary guy at all. I don’t think I am, because if you, if you think, if you underestimate me, then you’re giving me far more opportunity than you should, especially if you want to beat me.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That, that just adds more fuel to the fire.

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: so. Before we wrap up, I wanna make sure, uh, the listeners know, um, if they want to, whether they’re [01:09:00] veterans, military families, just supporters in general, uh, if they wanna make sure that this memorial gets completed, sticks to that timetable that you, you listed earlier.

Um, what are some of the best ways that they can reach out and contribute?

Michael Rodríguez: Yeah, absolutely. So if, if they go to visit our, visit our website, uh, gwotmemorialfoundation.org uh, there’s, there’s a number of of ways you can do what I, what I always tell people is go on there, sign up for our updates, you know, to stay in touch. And I promise I’m not gonna spam you, I’m not gonna send you an email.

Every week we send out information when it’s relevant. Uh, I, my email inbox is full of stuff. I’m like, you just told me this last week, but in different words, right? Uh, from the same people, I’m not gonna do that. I promise I won’t do that. Um, the team won’t do that. We’re very small team, so sign up for updates, follow our socials.

Uh, we’re pretty active, uh, you know, there, and, and sharing highlights and updating, um, not just what we’re doing, but our, our partners, um, as well as, you know, recognizing those that are still wearing the uniform. Like, you know, we, the, the, [01:10:00] you know, we talk about, uh, the, like we just. You know about the, uh, the tragedy that occurred in the training accident, uh, over in Europe, we lost those four soldiers, right?

We’re, it’s just we talk about the familia, right? We want to, we wanna be sure everyone’s informed. Um, but you’ll, you’ll see just about everything we do is, is people not policy or politics. You want very, we, we don’t do that. I know a lot of them we’re really easy people to talk to. We got great allies, but just follow us on socials.

Sign up for updates. Um, and if you do have the capacity to, to become one of our investors, you know, there’s always a donate button. There’s always an opportunity to, uh, contribute and whichever, whichever way you can feel. But I would ask anybody that’s listening to this is to find three veterans and tell them we’re doing this.

A lot of people get upset with me. Um, they’re like, rod, how come, you know, how come I didn’t know about this? How come I didn’t know? And I’m like, well, with limited resources, I could do one of two things. I could have spent money telling everybody, Hey, look what I’m doing, but [01:11:00] not succeeded. Or I could have focused on the mission.

And that’s, that’s been the focus. It’s very, you know, limited resources. Okay, we gotta focus on this, we gotta get this, the, the awareness piece will come, right? If it, it’s, it’s, that’s, that’s one of the reasons. So I’m asking you to gimme a hand here. Uh, if you could find three veterans, reach out to them, tell ’em, um, this is going on, and, and, and tell ’em.

Tell ’em I love him.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And that’s, that’s part of why you’re here today, is that awareness piece. I wanna make sure that this gets out to as many people as possible. Uh, raise that awareness. Make sure that people know that, hey, there’s someone in your corner that, that’s fighting for you, that, that wants to make sure that your service is remembered and honored and, and that it mattered to, uh, to people.

It may not, it may not feel like it matters to you because you, you’re like, ah, you know, I, I don’t need this. You know, for me, you know, that, like you were saying before, it’s like, ah, you know, for me, uh, I, I don’t, I don’t really need that. It’s kinda like when. You know, a a guy gets, you know, sick or, [01:12:00] you know, you know, hurts his leg or something like that and he’s like, I don’t need to go to the doctor.

I don’t need that for me. But you know what, you don’t, maybe you don’t feel like you need it for you, you, you probably do. But, you know, think about your, your, your family, your, your kids that you can’t run around in the yard ’cause you, you hurt your leg or something like that. Like, oh, go get, go get it fixed.

You know, um, you know, go, go take care of yourself. And, and this is kind of, I, I look at it kind of a similar way, um, is that this will, this will lead people to get the, um, the, the recognition that, that they right. Rightfully deserve. And, um, I, I think this is just a great thing. I really do encourage people to, uh, go to the website and, uh, subscribes emails, uh, socials, uh, all that kinda stuff and make a donation if that’s something in your heart that you, you can do, uh, you know, financially.

Um, I, I think that’s, it’s super important and um, you know, hopefully we can, we can reach. Many, many people with this, this episode. So thank you Rod for, uh, taking the time to come on the [01:13:00] show. Uh, this has been an absolute pleasure and like I said, I’ve, I’ve been looking forward to it for a long time and this, this has, this has been great.

So thank you so much.

Michael Rodríguez: No, uh, the honors mind man, this is just one of many more conversations I look forward to having with you, Hermano Thank you so much.

Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely.