Episode 498 Ron Jansen Finding Brotherhood After Combat Transcript

This transcript is from episode 498 with guest Ron Jansen.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Did you come home from deployment and just try to go back to normal life like nothing ever happened? If so, you’re not alone. A lot of [00:00:10] us shove those memories down thinking if we ignore the past, it’ll somehow stay buried. But it doesn’t. It leaks out in the stress, the arguments, the disconnect from our families, [00:00:20] and the worst part, we often don’t realize it’s happening until something breaks.

Now imagine. What could change if you gave yourself the time and space to actually process it [00:00:30] without shame, without judgment? And that’s what this episode is about. You’re gonna hear a raw and honest conversation with Marine Corps veteran Ron Janssen, who learned that [00:00:40] healing doesn’t come by, toughing it out alone.

From combat to counseling, isolation to outdoor retreats, and even writing a memoir, [00:00:50] Ron shares the unexpected tools that. Helped him reconnect with himself, with his family, and his purpose. But before we dive in, make sure you’re subscribed [00:01:00] to the email newsletter at driveonpodcast.com/subscribe.

You’ll get my five favorite episodes sent straight to your inbox, no fluff, just the best insights to help you drive [00:01:10] on. I also wanna take a moment to raise awareness for something deeply important to our community. The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent [00:01:20] national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families and civilians impacted by the global war on terrorism.

This memorial serves as both a tribute to those who [00:01:30] served and a way to ensure their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you wanna learn more or find out how you can support the mission, visit g watt [00:01:40] memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

[00:01:50]

Scott DeLuzio: Ron, welcome to the [00:02:00] show. I’m really glad to have you here. I’m looking forward to chatting with you about your experiences and kind of your background and everything. But welcome to the show.

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Thanks Scott. Glad to be here.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:02:10] Yeah, absolutely. So, so you’re a Marine Corps veteran combat experience, you know, what were some of the major challenges that you faced when you were transitioning back to the civilian world?[00:02:20]

Ron Jansen: Sure. So, one thing you didn’t mention, I’m a reserver or I was a reservist as well,

so. I kinda came from the you know, came from the civilian world, half in, [00:02:30] half out as a reservist is and then especially my my second deployment when I came back from Iraq, it felt like a pretty, all I wanted to do was just go back to normal [00:02:40] life.

Like I was, I was good after, a year of being deployed or Yeah, we were, we were gone over all for a year. So I was really, you know, really happy to be back, but I [00:02:50] didn’t spend any time really intentionally processing any of what hap had happened. And so I was happy to jump into work and a bunch of other stuff, [00:03:00] but I didn’t really get to the point where I started to think about maybe the impact that those things had on me. You know, there’s, there’s other pe you know, that’s one end of the, the extreme. The other [00:03:10] end of the extreme is like, you know, sitting and wallowing in it and, and not moving on. I don’t think either one of those is a great approach. I think there’s an in-between where you allow [00:03:20] yourself to feel the experience or the, the impact of it and then and then move on in a more integrated way. But I think that was the biggest challenges. ’cause eventually did catch up. [00:03:30] Probably less constructively.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that’s kind of a common theme that I have noticed amongst other veterans that I’ve talked to, [00:03:40] you know, through this show and other places that it’s not always the most constructive way that we deal with things. You know, a lot of times you, you see guys who, you [00:03:50] know, they, they. Get into drinking or, you know, unfortunately, drugs and, and things like that.

And it’s, it’s not helpful, you know, it may help temporarily to kind of [00:04:00] numb the pain or, you know, whatever you wanna call it, but it’s, it ultimately, it’s not helpful, you know, in the long run. So, you know, you want to do things that are a lot more constructive

Ron Jansen: [00:04:10] Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: you said, yeah, feel the pain, you know, you know, live in that moment for a bit, but then do something with it.

Don’t just. Stay there and stuck. Right. That’s, [00:04:20] that’s not where we wanna be.

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: but you ended up writing a book called, titled an Otherwise Healthy Person. Tell us about kinda the inspiration behind that kind of where, where that came [00:04:30] from.

Ron Jansen: Sure, sure. So it was about, I think about four years ago now that I started it. And I’m, I’m not a writer. I, I work in the corporate world. I’ve. [00:04:40] Uh, I’ve got four kids, so I’m busy. You know, just have other things going. And it really was just about out of the blue. It was one, I think it was the first winter of [00:04:50] Covid, so probably February, 2021.

So there wasn’t a ton going on. We had to, we tried to get out of the house as much as we could, but a lot of things were shut down still. So, I was probably [00:05:00] a bit restless at home and it just came to me one afternoon. I feel like I need to start writing and I, I told my wife and she said, we’ll, we’ll start.

And so I sat, [00:05:10] sat down like immediately. With like a blank Google doc and a cup of coffee to just and, and I found, you know, initially I had to like limit how much [00:05:20] time I spent writing because it was all just kind of coming out of me. And that was more of like a stream of consciousness.

It wasn’t structured or anything, but it was just writing about some of my experiences, [00:05:30] especially when I was deployed to Iraq. Um, and then I, I talked to a few authors legitimate authors. We’re able to give me some advice on how to, you know, kind [00:05:40] of craft a story. And even though a memoir is, you know, it’s real events that happened just even the, the creativity of thinking, like, how do you explain this process [00:05:50] or, or what happened or how do you frame it? How do you frame the scene and, and help the reader understand it. I, I really found out I enjoyed that,

um, going. [00:06:00] The first two thirds of my book is really my experience in, in, when I was deployed in Iraq. And then I thought I was done with the book. Once I finished that part, I was pretty happy [00:06:10] with it.

And then I shared it with some friends of mine and. Who know me well and know my, my story. And, and they said, well, well what happened after that? [00:06:20] And I really, I really didn’t wanna write about that. I, I, you know, the ’cause there was some, you know, really difficult times my wife and I went through that I just personally struggled through.

And I [00:06:30] was happy to write about the combat stuff. I was less excited about that sort of thing. But I. Looking back on it now, that’s, that’s been the most beneficial for me. It’s all been [00:06:40] beneficial, I think a way to process some of it, but

I think that’s been, really helpful to put some of that in perspective and help myself understand it as much as anything.[00:06:50]

Scott DeLuzio: did you find it to be a therapeutic process going through the, the writing process for you? I

Ron Jansen: I, I, think so. Yeah.

I didn’t necessarily feel like it at the time. I mean, in some things, you know, [00:07:00] I, I started writing and, thought, holy shit, I forgot all about that. And, and you know, it was unsettling in some ways, but in other ways, I think my experience, I, now that I [00:07:10] look back at it, it was, you have these experiences that are really intense, a lot of them all at once, and you can’t really. You know, you don’t have anything to do, but just move on at the time. [00:07:20] And I, I found that writing was, yeah, it was a way of putting it, you know, making it a bit more manageable. It seemed like, even though some of those things were still very intense to write, read [00:07:30] about as I did it it, it was a little bit more. yeah, manageable is the best word I could think of. I’m sure there’s a better one, but where to see it down on paper or [00:07:40] on a screen, it was it, I just saw it from a different perspective than when I, you know, when I just had it, like, as a lived experience.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. One. One thing I’ve [00:07:50] noticed just through like therapy that I’ve gone through and through talking to other people is that when you write something down. It [00:08:00] takes longer for you to write the thing down than it does for you to think about that thing. So you’re stuck in that moment for as long as it takes you to write [00:08:10] it.

And typing, I don’t know if typing is the same way, but it, it’s probably similar. You know, just as far as the length of time takes to, to write the thing down. [00:08:20] And so then your brain has time to continue processing that. Particular moment, and then it gets to like [00:08:30] slowly move on to the next moment that, that, as you’re writing, but you, don’t, you don’t necessarily get that opportunity when you’re just living in the moment [00:08:40] or rethinking, you know, thinking back to your time in Iraq or, you know, other, you know, other people in their, their deployments.

You know, thinking back to those times, [00:08:50] it’s just a thought and it can a whole. Situation can, can be a thought that takes a second or two in your mind, but when you’re [00:09:00] writing it, it could take you a few minutes to write that whole thing down so your brain has a chance to actually process some of that.

And it, it’s kind of a strange thing. I, I’ve, I’ve gone through that, like I said [00:09:10] through therapy and, I found myself writing stuff and remembering things that I was like, holy crap, I haven’t thought about this in years.

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: like comes [00:09:20] back to you as, as you’re writing. It’s such a strange experience.

But that’s why I like to ask about, you know, whether, whether or not it was, you know, therapeutic or beneficial in that way because you, you know, you never know [00:09:30] with, with people if it, it could be, you know, beneficial or it could be bringing back some, some memories that maybe you didn’t necessarily wanna have

Ron Jansen: Sure.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. You know?

Ron Jansen: Yeah. [00:09:40] And there was a few of those too. But I think what you said about there is something to. Not only is do our minds work faster than our, you know, than we can write or type. But I [00:09:50] also think like, our minds like it. Part of it is just a feeling like some of it’s just intense, you know, feelings that your body feels as you remembering this.

So it’s all [00:10:00] going on. And I think you’re right, like sitting down to actually write it out. It, you know, can be really helpful. Now, sometimes it can also in, in, in the wrong environment, in the wrong or the [00:10:10] wrong setting, it might not be that helpful. I do, I, I kind of laugh because I’ve, you know, ever since probably middle school people have encouraged me to journal [00:10:20] and write out, you know, how I feel and things like that.

And I, I mean, I just roll my eyes every time I’ve. So it’s, I’ve gotta, you know, swallow my pride and [00:10:30] say maybe there’s something to it. But I, I found it was really helpful and, and essentially what I think I was doing was just journal, basically journaling the past [00:10:40] now is what it felt like. And so, you know, and, and I did keep a, a journal sporadically when I was overseas, but it was, it was probably more of a diary.

It

was more like, here’s what we did. [00:10:50] Um, and I didn’t do it consistently, so it didn’t really, I didn’t get too deep with it.

Scott DeLuzio: It was probably helpful to go back and thumb through that, at least to, just to bring back some, some memories like where, [00:11:00] where your mind was at, at, at a certain time. Like, you know what, we did this, we, we went on that mission and we did this and whatever. So, so you had that at least available to you.

Now [00:11:10] besides writing have, have you found some. You know, effective ways of kind of managing any kind of challenges that you, you face post service, you know, after [00:11:20] getting out or, or even, you know, when you’re in the reserves you know, you’re, you’re kind of got one foot in, one foot out

Ron Jansen: Right.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s kind of, way to think of [00:11:30] it. But you know, any, any ways that you’ve, you’ve kind of, you know, basically managed any kind of issues that you might’ve been dealing with.

Ron Jansen: Yeah, I would, when I was in you know, I did a, [00:11:40] a six year term, two deployments during that time. But, I wouldn’t say I probably had many, if any, effective ways of, of managing back then I was in my, you know, [00:11:50] mid the early twenties and and I, you know, like, thought I was bulletproof and, and life’s problems had, had not yet caught up to me.

So, well, well, or at [00:12:00] least I didn’t have to acknowledge it yet. Probably is a better way of saying it. I think a couple of things that have been pretty instrumental for me is one you know, therapy or counseling. I, I was [00:12:10] very, you know, not interested in that for a long time either until you know, my wife and I and our marriage came to a real breaking point and, and ended up just [00:12:20] starting through that process.

And that was really helpful. Not only in the relationship piece, but just to help me understand and that was a. I mean, it was not an overnight process at all. That was something that you know, it [00:12:30] was years, not, not years of intensely seeing counselors that whole time, but years of, you know, getting some perspective and then working through it.

But one of the things that’s also been [00:12:40] really transformative for me is I’ve done some like wilderness retreats. A friend of mine who you, who was my counselor at the time introduced me to that and [00:12:50] like a four day Christian Wilderness retreat where it’s you know, 15 or 20 guys that go out and really, you know, very basic stuff, but just getting a chance to get out and [00:13:00] in, in a way.

I didn’t, I never thought about it at the time, but in a way it’s almost like a, a small. You know, version of what you experience in the military. You’ve got a squad or a platoon or [00:13:10] whatever, and you’re going, you know, you have a sort of mission, but you’re also just hanging out and, and bullshitting around with and stuff like that.

And those have been really, really [00:13:20] transformative for me. I’ve got another one that I’m helping to lead now here in a month or so. We’re going down to Kentucky,

That. So I’m really that’s, that’s been one of the major things because [00:13:30] there’s work you can. It’s really important to do work with a counselor or a friend or somebody you trust, but also, like some of the, the group dynamics, it’s hard to replace that in any [00:13:40] other, you know, in other, the setting.

Like it’s hard to, to find the benefits of that anywhere else. Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you definitely get that comradery when you have a, a group of [00:13:50] guys who go out, you know, go out in the woods and just hanging out and yeah, sure. There’s, there’s probably a mission associated with that where, where you’re out doing, [00:14:00] doing certain things. Not a combat mission per se, you know, not like that.

But it’s, it’s, you have a purpose. You’re going out there for a particular. Goal that you’re trying to [00:14:10] achieve, and you all there are there together. You all have the same motivations and, and everything like that. And very similar to the military [00:14:20] where you’re all there for the same purpose. You know, you’re all

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: a, a certain mission and, you know, it makes it kind of easy to bond with those people [00:14:30] and easier anyways, I should say,

Ron Jansen: Right. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: connect with them.

Right? And so, and I, I’ve heard from other people too that for them just being [00:14:40] outside in nature in, you know, even just going for a walk in their neighborhood, just. Being outside is just such a incredible boost to their their [00:14:50] wellbeing, their mental health, their ev, everything just gets better the more they’re outside.

I had one guy on like real early when I, I started this, this podcast years [00:15:00] ago. He, he said that outdoors was like his church, his therapist, his you know, his, his best friend. Basically. It was like all of those things all rolled up into one just being outside. And [00:15:10] so, you know, and then you add in that that group dynamic of having those other guys with you that, that probably just adds a whole extra [00:15:20] dimension, which, which probably just makes things a whole lot better, right?

Yeah.

Ron Jansen: Yeah.

and I’ve done some group therapy things. One, one was really great run by he’s a. [00:15:30] He’s written several books about it. His name is Kurt Thompson out in Washington, DC area, and he, he runs confessional communities, which is like a group intensive [00:15:40] counseling model. And that’s great. But I don’t think there’s any substitute for being outdoors.

I don’t, I don’t know what it is. You know, I, I love being outside and I think there is just something [00:15:50] to it. It just gets us part of it. It just gets us away, you know? Most of us, whatever we do for work, we’re sitting in front of a screen or driving in a car or whatever.

Um, so just [00:16:00] the ability to get out and be away from that, I think that’s part of it.

But, but there’s just, I, I think just healing properties of nature. It’s just the way it is.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I, I, [00:16:10] I don’t know what it is, but I, I can’t imagine sitting in front of a screen all day long is the best for your health. You know, that’s not

Ron Jansen: Right, right. [00:16:20]

Scott DeLuzio: You know, that that was not how we are designed. And not only do we have computers that a lot of us are staring at all day, but we.

We have our phones that we’re carrying around with us [00:16:30] 24 7, and that’s, that, that just adds to it. And it, you kind of need a detox from all of that at, you know, at, at, at some point. So, you know, [00:16:40] getting outside now, now these, these trips, what, how are they structured? Like we, we mentioned there’s, there’s some sort of mission or purpose or, or whatever that you guys are doing.

Imagine it’s [00:16:50] not just going out. You know, setting up a, a camp somewhere and just hanging out for a few days, there’s probably more to it. Right.

Ron Jansen: Sure, sure. [00:17:00] Yeah. And it’s a good, I’m, I’ve just been studying up on it again because I’m, I’m helping to lead one here pretty soon, like I said. So, really, they’re, they’re structured. I don’t know if you’re familiar with, like John [00:17:10] Eldridge or he wrote a, a, one of his books he wrote was called Wild at Heart, which is just.

He talks about just the heart of men specifically and, and what we you [00:17:20] know, the way we’re wired. And one of these things he talk, or the, the way the weekends are set up are really to understand like, we’ve all been wounded in life. I mean, you know, for combat [00:17:30] veterans, it, it can be something very, you know, very intense and very specific.

But also we all have things that we took from childhood, from, you know, high school, [00:17:40] whatever past relationships. And I think one of the things that we really talk about is there’s like the obvious wounds, like, you know, maybe your dad leaving when you were a child, or [00:17:50] or an abusive parent or something like that.

Or, you know, a a combat experience. Those, those things. But also just talks about the, the, the. Day-to-day things that for whatever reason [00:18:00] impacts us very deeply, you know, the, the trauma or whatever it is. And so a lot of that is just being able to like, dig into that a little bit and, and share that with o you know, with other [00:18:10] people.

And that can be terrifying. I, I think the first time I did that it was. It was far scarier than going into combat for me. Like I would much rather face bullets all day than, [00:18:20] than get in front of people and tell ’em, you know, where I’ve been hurt in my life or whatever. But but found it was really, you know, when you, when you do that and you realize like people are still here, they’re still [00:18:30] interested, they still care.

They’re not just, you know, judging you or I think one of the things in the military we’re. I don’t know if we’re trained probably, but at least [00:18:40] it comes naturally to us. It’s just like you, you learn to just hide any vulnerability you have because that’s, you know, you, you’re and also to, to, you know, point it out in anybody [00:18:50] else.

’cause you’re, you know, you’re training for war, you’re training, you have

to, I think it’s one of the things you have to do. When we get back, we still. Kind of hold onto [00:19:00] that,

or I did at least. And I think it’s natural too because you, you know, you just are used to operating that way. And so a big part of the weekend’s just learning to let that, you know, let it, [00:19:10] maybe don’t let it go entirely if you’re not comfortable, but let it let your guard down a little bit and start to weigh it into some of those things.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s interesting how you, [00:19:20] you phrase that because when you have. Guys, soldiers, marines, you know, whatever the branches that you’re, you’re serving in. We have [00:19:30] a bunch of guys that are basically training to be. Invincible, almost like you’re out to go destroy the enemy and that’s, that’s your job and you don’t want [00:19:40] any vulnerabilities

Ron Jansen: Right. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: so I think you’re right that we sort of are trained to point those things out in the other [00:19:50] people that are around us. And I know based on. The guys that I served with, and I’m sure it’s similar with, with a lot of other people, but if [00:20:00] you have some sort of vulnerability, some sort of you know, little slip up with anything, they’re not gonna let it go.

They’re going to,

Ron Jansen: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: it [00:20:10] in on you. And, and so you want, you wanna hide all of that. You don’t want any of that stuff getting out, right? And so that builds you up as a bigger, tougher, you know, than you. Than you actually are. [00:20:20] Right? And, and so, they, they’ll pick on those things not as necessarily like, Hey, we’re gonna pick on you because you’re weak, or, you know, [00:20:30] whatever.

We’re, we don’t like you.

Because they wanna make it better. They, they, they’re gonna pick on those things

so that you can work on whatever that vulnerability is and get rid of it, because they [00:20:40] don’t want someone with vulnerabilities hanging around them, especially in when bullets start flying, right? You, you want someone who’s, who’s strong and they don’t have those, those issues that are [00:20:50] that are there anymore.

So, it’s interesting how you, how you phrase that, and it kind of, the light bulb clicked in my head like, why, why do we do that? Well, that kind of makes sense that that’s why we do it. Right? [00:21:00] But

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: to your point, when you’re out now, and now you’re just a bunch of regular guys going out and you’re hanging out [00:21:10] together there’s really no purpose in hiding those things.

Like, they’re not, they’re not gonna, you know, tear you apart just because you have these. Vulnerabilities, they’re [00:21:20] gonna help, maybe help you work through ’em but not necessarily gonna tear you apart because of it. Right?

Ron Jansen: Yeah. No, and it still has to be the right setting. I [00:21:30] mean, you, you,

have to trust that the people there. ’cause there are times, I mean, you know, I think that the fear is that you go into a situation like that and, and people do start, [00:21:40] uh, you know, pushing back or whatever it is. And, and one of the things I’ve had to work on is that can be my default mode even before I joined the Marine Corps.

I mean, you know, just growing up playing [00:21:50] sports or whatever, things like that. It’s, it’s a similar-ish,

um, type attitude or environment. And so that’s one of the things I can still fall into that I. Pattern I’ve had to really work [00:22:00] on and I’m still working on just making sure that it’s like, okay, this is not a situation, like this is a situation.

We could just be real with each other. We don’t need to bullshit or, or posture or whatever [00:22:10] else. And yeah, I, I think it’s really important. You don’t have to, you know, find that everywhere, but I think it’s been really important for me to have that in some parts of [00:22:20] my life.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, and you’re right, definitely having the, the right time and place for it is, is crucial. Now you’re talking [00:22:30] about like the, like a men’s ministry type program. This is kind of what you’re talking about as far as like the, these outdoor trips or is there something else to it?

Ron Jansen: Yes.

So [00:22:40] I would say that’s the, the primary one I’m involved in. also and those, those are through my the church I attend. But then also we do something or I’m part of something called [00:22:50] Base Camp, and those are at just storytelling events that we do once a month at a brewery where we’ll have a you know, we’ll just have a guy come and, and share his story. It’s sort of like a [00:23:00] test. We’re pretty intentional. Say like, it doesn’t have to be per, like, it doesn’t have to have a bow on it at the [00:23:10] end. Because

I think that’s one of the things when people feel like they’re sharing something like that, they feel like they have to say, and now that everything’s perfect, where you know, we just know and on this earth, not everything is [00:23:20] perfect.

But we could still, you know, share. You know, real things about our faith and where where we’re at and how God’s worked in our lives. And so, yeah, we do that once a [00:23:30] month and that’s been that’s been really great too. ’cause it’s kind of like a you know, just a, a one hour session of just somebody sharing where they’re at and having a chance for other guys to, to hear [00:23:40] and support that.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I think everybody’s faith journey is going to be. A series of ups and downs and, and there’s, there’s gonna be some, you know, [00:23:50] you might have a moment in your life or time in time period in your life where you’re questioning things, questioning your faith, questioning, you know, things like that.

And I think that’s okay. That’s [00:24:00] normal. And, and that’s, that’s something that I think a lot of us will end up going through at one point or another. Especially. In, in light of maybe [00:24:10] traumatic events. Like, you know, how how could that happen? You know, how, how could,

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: God, let that happen, that type of thing.

You know, you know, and, and then you know, hearing those people’s stories and then [00:24:20] hearing about, you know, where they you know, got their strength from, or things along those lines. That, that might be the thing that, [00:24:30] build somebody else up to be like, you know what? Yeah, I, I can dig down and I could find that in myself as well, you know?

Ron Jansen: Yeah, I would say that’s been my experience is that it until I [00:24:40] heard, saw other people do it or heard other people do it, I had a hard time, um, understanding myself or, or thinking I could do it as well.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:24:50] yeah.

Ron Jansen: I.

Scott DeLuzio: And sometimes I, I even talk about this with guests that are on the show is that sometimes your story could be the thing that, [00:25:00] gets people back on, on the right track, that that could be the start of their journey is by hearing your story. That’s the inspiration that, that keeps ’em going.

I had a guy in the show a while back [00:25:10] who he was talking about a speech that he was giving to like a group of people and at the end there’s. You know, someone came up to him and, and she was [00:25:20] talking to him and said like, I was on the verge of like not wanting to be here anymore. I was, I was on the verge of wanting to kill myself and I heard your story and I said, Hey, if you could go through all that stuff [00:25:30] that you went through that you just described, I got nothing to complain about.

So it kind of like helped just. Put her back on, on the path that you know, she, she wasn’t going [00:25:40] to, you know, end her life. So that, I mean, like that is, is super powerful in and of itself. But you know, there’s, there’s countless stories out there. Everybody has a story. And [00:25:50] it’s, it, it could be a, a faith-based story.

It could not be a faith-based story. You know, you, it could be anything. But that could be the thing that helps get that other person. Back on [00:26:00] track. So, you know, it’s awesome that, that you have those, those opportunities to do that. Now is that is that like a, a local or regional type or thing that, that you’re, you’re [00:26:10] going to, or is there like a NA type thing?

Ron Jansen: Oh, sure. I, it’s somewhat national. It’s the, the overall organization is called Grace [00:26:20] Explorations. I’d say many of the base camps, so there’s different, you know, kind of local ones are, are based in Michigan, but I think there are some outside of Michigan as well. So, you know, somewhat [00:26:30] regional and and I, I do think, you know, we, we. Me and two other, well, three other guys run the, the one that we’re a part of. It’s relatively, you know, it’s the main, [00:26:40] the main challenge is just finding a speaker once a month. And, and once you have that people show up and if you have beer, it always helps.

Scott DeLuzio: That, [00:26:50] no, that’s always a, a good draw for, for some people just to get ’em out. Yeah.

So we were talking before about that connection, that bond, that, that.

A lot of, [00:27:00] a lot of guys miss when they get out of the military. That comradery. What are some ways that you found that, that help in kind of creating some of that connection? [00:27:10] Again, maybe not necessarily with the guys that you served with, but you know, in your local community and, you know, maybe it’s through a church or some other groups.

You know, what are some ways that you found that, that, that [00:27:20] makes or makes it easy to make those types of connections?

Ron Jansen: Sure, sure. Yeah. I think one of the things that, that I missed and that people miss about their military [00:27:30] experiences. It’s, it’s usually a pretty intense experience. And also you have a shared com, a shared mission.

Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

Ron Jansen: And that could be a variety of things, but sometimes it’s just the shared mission is staying alive.

[00:27:40] But when you get out, it can feel, you know, you could feel a lot less connected to whatever mission. It’s, I know, you know, I’ve worked in the corporate world my, my [00:27:50] whole life other than my time in the Marines and. I, I’ve had bits and pieces of that where I have felt like, Hey, we’re, you know, I’m on a team.

We’re working towards this [00:28:00] goal. It, it feels important. So, but it, but it hasn’t been, it hasn’t always been that way, and it hasn’t consistently been that way. So I think I’ve also looked to, you know, [00:28:10] like I mentioned, those retreats. That’s, that’s one way I’ve found. I mean, there’s some things I do like, just around like hunting or fishing trips where it’s something similar where you know, it’s not [00:28:20] life or death, but you’re, you’re all doing something together and working together to, to reach a goal.

And, and you also have some of that time where you’ve got downtime or, [00:28:30] or just to hang out or cook a meal or whatever it is. So, yeah, I think what I found is that you can’t find any one replacement for it. I haven’t. A replacement for [00:28:40] that experience, but I think you can get glimpses of it in different parts of life, and that’s been really helpful for me.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and you’re right, you’re not gonna recreate, you know, a combat [00:28:50] experience with

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: from. church or in the neighborhood or you know, other, other, you know, from work or other environments that you might be in unless, you know, you happen to be in law enforcement or [00:29:00] something that’s high intensity like that, you might be able to recreate that, but you don’t want to.

That’s like,

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: you wanna, you wanna strive for. That’s not the goal. But but you [00:29:10] can still have that, that type of comradery where you’re working towards a common goal. And. You, you are part of a team. You, you have all [00:29:20] the you know, components that you’re missing essentially.

You know, and, and one thing that when, when I was in the Army we were training to go to Afghanistan. So this [00:29:30] is before we even deployed. We did this just this training exercise. It was just driving our, our, the Humvees, getting some of the newer guys. Driving around teaching them, [00:29:40] you know, how to drive in in different conditions, different terrain and all that kind of stuff.

We got stuck in the mud. We were in Louisiana. It, it was muddy. We got stuck in the [00:29:50] mud and instead of backing out and going back the way we came. The powers that be decided, let’s charge on and keep going [00:30:00] forward. And we got even more stuck. Not only did we have one truck stuck, we had all, I think we had like four or five trucks that were all stuck and the, there was.[00:30:10]

It was just like a, a, a series of errors that took place. We ended up being there. It was supposed to be like, it was right after dinner chow time, so it was only supposed to be an hour or so. So maybe, I [00:30:20] don’t know, seven or eight o’clock at night. We were supposed to be done with it and, and be back to, you know, where, where we were staying.

Ended up not being till about lunchtime the next day that we ended up getting [00:30:30] everything out and getting back. But as much as that sounds like it sucks ’cause it was cold, it was wet, it was muddy, you’re covered in whatever. We came [00:30:40] with some creative solutions to get these trucks out. There may or may not have been some private property that got used to to, to just unlodge some of these, these trucks.

But [00:30:50] we. We figured it out and it was like our whole, whole platoon and we like bonded so close a, after that [00:31:00] experience, it was, it was like such a crappy experience, but we bonded so well and like it was just, it was such a strange. [00:31:10] Event that took place, and when we, when we got through all of it, we were, we were closer.

There’s like certain things that someone said when they got frustrated, then like we, [00:31:20] we’d mimic them and we’d say it again later. Like, and this would be months later, we, we

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, even years later. We, we will, we’ll say it, you know, even to this day we might, we might say [00:31:30] some of these, these things that happened from that night and.

We all know where it came from and we all get a good laugh out of it. And and it’s, you know, just something that [00:31:40] brought us together. I’m not saying you gotta go get stuck in the woods and, you know, stuck in the mud or, you know, anything like that to, to have those kind of connections, but. When you go out, you, you never [00:31:50] know how these things will, will play out.

And you never know what kind of connections you might make. And those could, could turn out to be lifelong connections now. [00:32:00] And now you have these, these friends for life that you, you can call up, you can, you can hang out with, you can rely on them to be there for you. You know, during, during those [00:32:10] d maybe more difficult times, you know?

Ron Jansen: Yeah.

Yeah.

that’s been my experience too, whether you know in the military or not, when you go through something challenging with somebody or a group of [00:32:20] people, you instantly become closer because you, you. After a certain point, you see the, the true nature of someone in situations like that, you know, [00:32:30] and some people that maybe didn’t, I mean, I had that with some of, even the guys in my squad, maybe I wouldn’t have thought much or that they’d be much of an asset in a, in a tough situation.

[00:32:40] And those are the people that you know, that were all stars. And some of the people I thought, man, this guy is. Is great. He’s going to take us everywhere. They kind of, you know, [00:32:50] faltered in some of those situations. So, I think that’s part of it is you, you get to see, you know, some of that forced proximity and, and challenging situations.

You, you, you get a, you get more [00:33:00] comfortable with who that person

is, Their flaws and also their abilities. And yeah, it really does make you, you know, much closer together.

Scott DeLuzio: And, and it’s funny too [00:33:10] because some of the people that like we, we serve together from such diverse backgrounds, you know, from from each other. You know, some people, you know, had. [00:33:20] Had, you know, great family life and great upbringing and things like that. Some people were, you know, had a terrible family life, terrible upbringing.

And it’s just like a different, just a mix of [00:33:30] different people coming together and you wouldn’t like, just on like looking at these people as individuals, you’d be like, there’s no way these people are gonna get [00:33:40] along, you know,

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn’t choose the team like

Scott DeLuzio: Right. But you get put together. It’s all good and,

and you wouldn’t trade those people [00:33:50] for anyone in the world, you know?

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: and it’s pretty awesome to, to see

Ron Jansen: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: that comes together. Now I know like a lot of times there, there’s people with you know, issues feeling like [00:34:00] disconnected. Was that something that, that you were feeling like before you got involved with some of these groups? Is that kinda like a, a thing that you were, you were dealing with or, or was this something that you were, you were kind of okay with?[00:34:10]

Ron Jansen: No well, I think I, I would’ve said I was okay with it, but I was definitely pretty disconnected. I think I was disconnected from my own heart, but also disconnected from [00:34:20] others. Like I, you know, I

had friends and good friends even. But I. And, and I, you know, looking back, and I, I would say a lot of them, you know, they actually tried to go deeper with me and I [00:34:30] wasn’t, wasn’t open to it.

I was just very

uncomfortable with it and, you know, kind of brushed it off or pushed it. Pushed it off. Um, so yeah, I, I would say that that [00:34:40] has really helped me to feel, yeah, it’s more, I think, you know, it’s pretty. Pretty common that people say, you know, you gotta find community, you gotta be a part of your community and contribute [00:34:50] and everything. And I think that’s true, but that’s not always clear what that means exactly. And, and some people are more comfortable being a little bit more you know, on their [00:35:00] own. But I, I really don’t think that’s what we’re made for. I mean, if you think about like the. The experience of Covid, like, maybe it was nice to be home for a month or two, if that’s what you were doing.

[00:35:10] But after that, like, it started having a real impact. And I

think we’re just starting to see the, the studies that say, okay, having people stay at home and not leave for months or years at a [00:35:20] time is not good for anybody. That’s that, that just that isolation. I, I think it, it’s as dangerous as, as many diseases or, or other things out there.[00:35:30]

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I mean, some people might be built for it and that that might be their thing, and

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: they’re, okay with that. But I would imagine that the vast majority of people need some sort [00:35:40] of human connection, some interaction, whether they’re, you know, married, they have kids, they, or they have. Friends or, you know, people that they hang out with on a regular basis.[00:35:50]

They, they have to have some sort of human connection. Someone that they could talk to someone and even if, just, just, you know, short, quick little conversation here and there but just somebody in their life [00:36:00] that they can still have those conversations with. And, you know, just to vent. Sometimes, you know, some, sometimes you just need to get something off your chest [00:36:10] and be like, man, this.

This situation sucks. Whatever it is, I, I, it just sucks. And I gotta, I gotta just bitch about it for a little bit and get it off my chest, you know?

Ron Jansen: Yeah. No, I. [00:36:20]

Scott DeLuzio: you know, like it, you know, if all, all you have is like your, your dog or something, you know, like, yeah, sure. You, you can, you can vent to your dog with the dog’s and you’re like, all right, when, when’s, [00:36:30] when’s the time to eat?

Ron Jansen: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s go for a

walk.

Scott DeLuzio: exactly. So, so yeah, I mean, that disconnection is, is a big issue I think with a lot of veterans especially [00:36:40] those who are struggling with PTSD and, and things like that. They just, they kind of wanna just shut off from the rest of the world. And like you’re saying, that’s, that’s probably not the best way [00:36:50] of going about doing it.

And so, you know, getting involved with groups. Like the one that you mentioned. But there’s other groups out there, you know, look into what your interests are. [00:37:00] You know, maybe it’s golfing, maybe it, maybe it’s fishing, maybe it’s you know, playing some other sport, you know, you know, get, get on a, you know, men’s softball league or something like that.

Or you know, some, [00:37:10] I dunno, whatever, whatever it is that. It does, does it for you. Do that so that you can you know, make a connection with, with some people [00:37:20] and you know, again, have some of those shared experiences that we were talking about. Right?

Ron Jansen: Yeah.

Yeah, because one of the things that I. Veterans, we tend to say, [00:37:30] well, if I’m gonna do something, I wanna be around people who understand me. So I want to be around other veterans and, and I think there’s some great things that you could do with like the American Legion or

whatever, but also [00:37:40] you walk into a lot of those places, it’s people drinking, you know, in a dark room at three o’clock in the afternoon.

Which, you know, I’m saying it’s not like I’ve never done that, but. [00:37:50] But long term, I don’t know if that is, you know, necessarily the best. But there’s some other things. Patrol base Abate is an organization that I went to the, one of their retreats in the, in [00:38:00] the fall and that, that was a pretty amazing experience.

It, it’s veteran run and it’s four veterans. But they really push I think pushed to get outside of that. You [00:38:10] know, we have common experiences, but there’s also a lot of the world to experience and so I’ve, I’ve appreciated, you know, some of those veterans organizations, but also some of the others where there we [00:38:20] have some shared experiences, but not just the same because I think. We could tend to it, it makes it hard if you just wanna talk to other people who have had all the [00:38:30] same experiences as you. Because first of all, I mean though there’s hundreds of thousands of us, it’s, you know, out of billions. So it’s not, you know, it’s, it’s a small, [00:38:40] smaller size. And I think, you know, I, I think it can be challenging in a good way to get outside of, you know, just the experiences we had.

’cause there’s a lot more life, [00:38:50] there’s a lot more to life than combat or. Training for war. part of it, but not all of it.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and so yeah, definitely be open to expanding your [00:39:00] circle beyond veterans because

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: to your point, I mean, out of the whole population of this country, of the world, we’re, we’re very small

Ron Jansen: [00:39:10] Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: of that. And so, yeah, definitely look at people who are, yeah. You know, just basically sharing interest with

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: and, it could [00:39:20] be any number of things that you’re interested in, but look for those people.

And there’s, there’s events, there’s things all over the place if you know where to look. You know, I, [00:39:30] I typically say like, start local, like start with your, you

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: city or town that you live in. Like, a lot of times they have events going on, or, or at least they’re, they’re you [00:39:40] know, they have.

Connections with other organizations that they, that are in town that, that you can connect with. And then, you know, look out, you know, outside your town more of a, you know, [00:39:50] regional like state level type thing. And you know, start looking for other events and other activities that might be of interest to you.

And then the more you do that, the more. [00:40:00] The, the easier it gets. As, as you’re doing those types of activities, you start to want to do more of those types of activities. ’cause you start to feel like [00:40:10] it’s enjoyable and you can start to enjoy life again. Right.

Ron Jansen: yeah, yeah. Even I was, as you were saying that I was thinking, even something like you know, [00:40:20] following your interests, whatever they are, and however weird they feel at the time. Like, you know, I, I wrote in my book that was about my combat experience and a lot of just heavy, but real [00:40:30] stuff and, and it was really good.

But, but I haven’t written, I’ve wanted to write more over the last year since I finished the book and, and haven’t written much. And I was just talking to somebody about a [00:40:40] month ago. He also a veteran, but he writer, he.

Got this online out outdoor journal that he’s the editor for. And instantly I was like, [00:40:50] oh, that sounds awesome.

Like, I don’t just need to write about war or, you know, or whatever. Like, I, I just wanna write about hunting and fishing for a little bit. Like, and I don’t know how much that will [00:41:00] last, but, but that’s actually been something for me that I was like, oh, that’s something I’m interested in. I feel like, yeah, maybe I could be done writing about war for a little while maybe forever.

That would be great too. [00:41:10] So.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. Because you’re more than just a, a marine. You, you have other, dynamic aspects to who you are and your [00:41:20] background and like that, that’s a good thing. We, we should

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, diverse interests and, you know, diverse skills and other things that, that [00:41:30] we have going on. So I think, I think that’s, that’s awesome.

Yeah, that

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: encourage people to look into those other things, tap into those other things that they may be into it. It [00:41:40] doesn’t all have to be war and combat and. You know, all the nastiness that we’ve, we’ve been through that. I mean, the,

you, you could talk about if you’re writing about the outdoors, you could talk about some [00:41:50] extremely beautiful things,

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: to be nasty and ugly and, and death and destruction and all this kind of stuff.

We, you don’t have to talk about those things. You could talk about, you [00:42:00] know, any number of things that are absolutely beautiful out in nature. And those things would be perfectly fine to write about, you know, and, and

Ron Jansen: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: probably puts your mind in a, in a [00:42:10] better, better state of mind anyways, when, when you’re writing about those good things and the, rather than the bad things, right?

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, that was one of the things I, I was kind of thinking is [00:42:20] like there, there will always be a, you know, an interest and a need to write about really intense, destructive things like war and whatever. But it’ll always be there. You don’t need to [00:42:30] always focus on, focus on it. And there is a lot more to life than just that.

Scott DeLuzio: Exactly, exactly. Looking back on, on your own, like transition time period [00:42:40] and, and the things that you went through, is there anything that you wish you had known earlier or if, you know, you had like a little, you know, whisper in your ear or something that that was like, Hey, [00:42:50] dummy, don’t do that. You know, that type of thing.

Like,

Ron Jansen: Oh.

Scott DeLuzio: Would anything that you wish you, you would’ve known that you can maybe share with other people who might be on a similar path?

Ron Jansen: Sure. [00:43:00] Yeah. I, I think I, I mentioned it kind of at the start, but I think, I wish I would’ve been more curious about like, what was going on inside of me, and that

sounds pretty wishy-washy. I know. [00:43:10] But no, just really like, what is the impact of this, you know, this really intense experience, this, that you’re coming out of, like even on, you know, it wasn’t [00:43:20] even close to all bad.

Like there

was some really good stuff. There was some, a lot of growth, a lot of learning leadership lessons, that sort of thing. Um, but I, I didn’t take [00:43:30] time to really process any of it or even think about it. I just, and, and I did the opposite. I was like, that, that, that is past, it wasn’t bad. It was, it was just, it [00:43:40] doesn’t really apply to my current

life, so I’m moving on. And part of that I think was. Unconsciously trying to, to not have to deal with the, you know, the [00:43:50] intensity of it. And so I, I wish I would’ve, I’m, I’m not sure honestly, what it would’ve looked like, but, but maybe I should have taken some time to do that or let myself, you know, even if it [00:44:00] felt like it was getting too much, like, you know, talk to somebody about it or find somebody who would, who was 10 years ahead of me and gone through.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Ron Jansen: Yeah, I, I [00:44:10] eventually got there, but I think I wasted a lot of time and energy and, and, you know, hurt some people in the process just by running from that. And, and I, you [00:44:20] know, for whatever reason I didn’t distract myself with more destructive things like, you know, drugs or whatever, but but I distracted myself with things that still weren’t [00:44:30] healthy, even if they were, you know, they were more like. At work and making myself, you know, making everybody think I, I had everything figured out and I didn’t.

[00:44:40] Um,

Scott DeLuzio: types of things could be toxic in and of themselves. I mean, not, not to say that like there’s anything wrong about being successful. But

Ron Jansen: sure. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: if it’s at, at the expense of [00:44:50] the other people who are important to you, you know, family and, and people like that, then you know, there’s a balance that you need to kind of deal with there.

And, and you know, they, they talk about work [00:45:00] life balance. I don’t know how real that is. You know, like

Ron Jansen: Right. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: a, you know, whatever. That’s a whole nother topic that we can get into. But you know. If, if [00:45:10] you’re being extremely successful rising to the top of the you know, the corporate ladder and you’re being, you know, a hundred percent successful over there, you know, what is it on the other side that you’re neglecting

Ron Jansen: [00:45:20] neglecting. Yeah. Yep. not doing well Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I’ve found I can, I think I can be in a healthy place and still like I. Achieve things and do well at work and [00:45:30] put, put a lot into it. But also I’ve gotta be, you know, really focused on why am I doing this? Is this ’cause I need everybody to

approve of me?

Or is it because, you know, I wanna do a good job and, [00:45:40] and use my skills the best I can.

So, and then just maybe to answer your question too, the second piece is I. I wish I would’ve found that community or, or went [00:45:50] after it. And I know that can be hard because it’s sometimes you get to that point and it doesn’t work out for whatever reason.

It’s not the right group, it’s not the right, you know, team, whatever. I wish I would’ve, [00:46:00] you know, went a, or tried to find it and kept trying to find it. Like I said, it, I took 10 or 15 years before I really even started digging into it.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. [00:46:10] And

We do that to ourselves.

Ron Jansen: to ourselves.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: we know that there’s something out there that, that [00:46:20] can help us, but we, we do the, oh, I’ll be fine. I don’t need that.

Ron Jansen: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, we kind of lie to ourselves or what, whatever it is that we say to ourselves. But, you know, at the end of the day, [00:46:30] you know, we, we probably do need some of this.

And, and it’s okay to you know, go. Get help if that’s what you need, if, or go find a [00:46:40] group of people that you can hang out with and you know, build that trust and comradery with again, and, you know, all those things that, that you’ve missed from your. Your time in [00:46:50] the military you know, you can find those things in other places as well.

You know, so if, if you’re that type of person where you’re, you’re, you’re feeling like, maybe I should, well [00:47:00] just go do it. And what’s the, what’s the worst that’s gonna happen is you, you get there and you’re like, you know what? I don’t click with those people. Okay, well you, you tried, you know, move

Ron Jansen: Right. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It’s not, [00:47:10] maybe not an indication you should stop,

Scott DeLuzio: Right, exactly. Mo move on to the next thing, I guess is what, more, what I should say. You know, just you, you tried one thing, didn’t work, no big deal and [00:47:20] move on.

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no, it’s, I mean, that’s a awesome advice. I think that’s you know, really, I think what we want to get out to the, the listeners here is, [00:47:30] is that message of, you know, just keep trying and, and.

The sooner, the better too, because, you know, a lot of times these problems don’t get better on their own just by [00:47:40] sitting there and dealing with them on, you know, or quote unquote dealing with them on your own.

Uh, because let’s face it, we’re not the best at dealing with these things on our own.

Ron Jansen: No. Right. Yeah. [00:47:50] None of us LearnD it from a young age, or I, I guess I didn’t.

Scott DeLuzio: No, I mean, and you know, I don’t think I, I did really either, but,

Ron Jansen: Mm-hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: The military certainly does an [00:48:00] issue you know, the, the guidebook for how to deal with these things. But you know, that, that’s why we have people, you know, out there who can help you with these things. And I, I’ve said this [00:48:10] before on this show, but, you know, I think it, it’s a good point that.

There’s a lot of things in life that we rely on other people for. You know, I don’t, I don’t know how [00:48:20] to, you know, fix my car’s engine if, if something happened with it. So I go to a mechanic, nobody’s gonna look at me like I’m nuts for going to a mechanic. You know? [00:48:30] It’s like I, I have other skills and other interests that.

Take up more of my time if I could. I’m not saying I couldn’t learn how to do it, just I don’t have time to, [00:48:40] and so I’m gonna

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: and the mechanic’s gonna do it. And, you know, getting your hair cut or getting, you know, other things like that. It’s like I go to, I go to get my haircuts from someplace [00:48:50] because I don’t want up looking like a clown.

I don’t know.

Ron Jansen: Right. You go to the expert.

Scott DeLuzio: You go to the experts. And so why should your mental health be any different or, or, or [00:49:00] physical health or anything, you know,

why should those things be any different? And yeah, sure. People might say, oh, I’ve been to, you know, a psychiatrist, I’ve been to a doctor, I’ve been to this, [00:49:10] that, and that.

And they, they all suck and they, they’re terrible. Well, really, do all of them suck? Or just the ones that you’ve been to and, and how many have you really been to at, [00:49:20] at the end of the day? Right.

So. You know, again, keep trying. Just because one

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: all suck. Right?

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Yeah. That I would absolutely say second [00:49:30] that, I mean, and, and I, my experience, ’cause I I started with the VA is that they’re, they, I think the VA has some great people working there, and I’ve got, they’ve got [00:49:40] some dip shits working there and it’s hard to tell which one is which.

So. That, I mean, they could definitely, you could definitely find good resources there, but you might have to go, [00:49:50] you know, private and, and I would say the same thing in private, you know, the private practice world. There’s some, some great people and some idiots. And unfortunately you just gotta go, you gotta keep at it.

[00:50:00] ’cause It’s easy. Like you said, it’s easy to, to have one bad experience and, and just back away entirely. But you’re just not gonna find what you need then.

Scott DeLuzio: I mean, just look at your, your. [00:50:10] Everyday encounters with people at the grocery store, at, you know, other places that you might be at, you know, home Depot or wherever you [00:50:20] might be going out to. And, and I’m not talking about employees. I’m, I’m not knocking the people who

Ron Jansen: No. Sure.

Scott DeLuzio: at all. I’m talking about just your everyday person who’s also in the store.

You see some [00:50:30] stupid shit going on. So,

Ron Jansen: It’s all around us

and

Scott DeLuzio: all around

Ron Jansen: doing it, so I can’t, I can’t hold them accountable.

All the.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, but [00:50:40] there’s, there’s some, there’s some things that, that are, are happening in people’s heads. And, and you may just happen to get one of those types of people when, when you’re going out. So just keep that in mind that [00:50:50] not everybody’s perfect

Ron Jansen: Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: you, might take a little work to find the right one for you.

So, anyways, Ron before we, we wrap up, I want to give you a chance to let listeners know where they [00:51:00] can learn more about you, your work, your book, and, and things like that. Where they can connect with you and, and get a copy of the book and all that kinda stuff.

Ron Jansen: Sure, sure. So I don’t have a, a [00:51:10] super strong social media presence, but I am on Instagram and then also Facebook. And then LinkedIn is probably where I’m most prevalent. Like I said, I, I work the corporate world, so, put some [00:51:20] stuff out out there as well. So, and then my book does have a website.

It’s available on Amazon, but it’s called an Otherwise Healthy Person. Yeah, it’s an otherwise healthy person. Dot com is the book [00:51:30] title, so, or I’m sorry, the the website link,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll, I’ll put the links to all of that in the show notes for the listeners. So, definitely go check out the book and, and [00:51:40] get a copy for the listeners here. But, but Ron, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show, sharing your story, sharing your experiences really do appreciate your insights and especially, [00:51:50] you know, connecting with other people and, and making tho those those connections I think is, is super important.

So thank you so much for coming on the show.

Ron Jansen: Yeah. Thanks Scott. [00:52:00] Glad I could come on.