Episode 504 Jake Rademacher Tools to Reclaim Your Life After Combat Transcript
This transcript is from episode 504 with guest Jake Rademacher.
Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] You’ve been stuffing it down for years, those memories from Iraq or Afghanistan. You’ve told yourself you’re fine, just like your buddies did. But the truth is that the weight is still there. The box is overflowing, and it’s starting to leak into your work, your sleep, and your relationships. Now imagine finally opening that box, but not alone.
Imagine having the words, the space, and the brotherhood to actually unpack what you’ve been carrying. Jake Rademacher’s journey started as a brother searching for answers. It became a mission to help veterans like you find healing through story, film, and real conversation. In this episode, we talk about post-traumatic growth, suicide prevention, and how journaling can literally change your brain.
This is a fix. If you’ve ever thought, I can’t talk about that, because the truth is you can, and maybe you need to. But before we dive into this episode, make sure you are [00:01:00] subscribed to the email newsletter at driveonpodcast.com/subscribe You’ll get my five favorite episodes sent straight to your inbox, no fluff, just the best insights to help you drive on.
I also want to take a moment to raise awareness for something deeply important to our community, the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians impacted by the global war on terrorism.
This memorial serves as both a tribute to those who served and a way to ensure their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you wanna learn more or find out how you can support the mission, visit GWOTmemorialfoundation.org Now, let’s get into today’s episode.
Scott DeLuzio: [00:02:00] Jake, welcome to the show. It’s really great to have you here. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for quite some time, but definitely looking forward to what it is that you, you guys are, are up to and the film and, and all the other things that you guys have going on. But first off, welcome to the show.
Jake Rademacher: Thank you Scott. Glad to be here.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So, tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, who you are, your background a little bit, and then, you know, kind of, lead into got the, the banner behind you there, brothers after war. Tell us about, you know, how you got into, you know, what you’re doing with all that.
Jake Rademacher: Well, I’m, I’m from Decatur, Illinois. Grew up kind of in a typical family except for the fact that my parents kept pumping out kids. I’m the oldest seven kids and you know, my dad, his father fought in World War ii, was in the Army Air Corps. I think my dad had kind of wanted to serve, but was in medical school during Vietnam, and by the time he came out, it was over.
So, you know, service, military service was always something that was of interest in the family. I decided I would’ve loved to been a fighter pilot. My eyes are so bad, I knew that wasn’t gonna work. So I thought [00:03:00] West Point might be a cool backup, but I didn’t get in there either. Couldn’t get that medical waiver.
Of course being from a big family that made number two, Isaac, get excited about going to West Point. So I went off to college to figure out what the hell I wanna do with my life. He decided to go and go to West Point and you know, we sort of switched paths there. I eventually became an actor and a writer.
Really got discovered that when I was in Ireland, my junior year of college. And went off and started, you know, did about 18 plays professionally. Wrote some things, won some awards as a writer. Eventually, you know. Was making my living as an artist, found my way out to Hollywood. And at the same time, reconnected with my brother, who at the same time went to West Point, graduated from West Point, went to ranger school, came out with his ranger tab, then nine 11 happened.
And obviously that changed the course of his
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: a 2000 West Point grad. And I knew my brother was gonna go to war and war. He did go to, and then eventually [00:04:00] Joe joined him. Joe was the, my kid brother, 10 years younger. Joined at 17, mom and dad signed the papers, turned 18 in Fallujah, Isaac pulled some strings and he, he, he applied for and volunteered and got a job on a two man sniper team as an 18-year-old in Fallujah with the 82nd Airborne.
So he did 120 missions over there while his brother as an infantry officer was trying to rebuild the community. They came home and told me the truth was not making it home from Iraq. And I. You know, that really pissed me off as a brother. And so, know, in 2004 I decided to start this project first all on my own.
Started filming. I filmed Isaac’s, leaving for his third deployment, asked the military for permission. Eventually got permission. Raised a bunch of money from my hometown, took all the money I ever made as an actor and started a film company. And then I guess where the path becomes very unique is I joined Isaac in Iraq in 2005.
Was allowed to film in skiffs, was allowed to, know, he got me on a the Lu mission out to the Syrian border that his, his scouts were doing. [00:05:00] Got to film that, you know, one of them took my camera into their little hide site and filmed all the reconning they were doing of, you know, people coming across the Syrian border to get their jihad on in Iraq.
you know, I spent six weeks in that area. The film also followed Isaac home where he predicted his daughter wouldn’t recognize him and therefore wouldn’t go to him. And then that happens in real time.
Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.
Jake Rademacher: I stayed on in Iraq to continue the mission of making the film. And then eventually, you know, my youngest brother Joe says, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You went on, you know, five, six weeks, who cares? You know? So I, I went back to Iraq a second time and I went to the SUNY Triangle and I embedded in infantry company, sniper team marine advisors. Working with the Iraqi army between Ramadi and Fallujah. Ended up getting into a good deal of combat over that six weeks of time.
Incredible, incredible embeds and opportunities. I word traveled fast, you know, by day one I was out the wire, you know, cordon searches by a few days in snipers were asking me, [00:06:00] when are you gonna come out with me? And I’m like, I don’t know. When, when, when am I going out with you? Well, we have a cool mission next week.
I’m like, okay, I’m gonna go. So it just started to be incredible ’cause they were really inviting me to come along and document and tell their story. And so all that became brothers at war. And the film was made to bring the truth of what my brothers were seeing on the front lines home to the American people.
And it did that. It was released in movie theaters in 2009. It was on Showtime in 2010. Did well on DVD was released internationally. But else happened, which really changed course once again, which was military couples would come up to me after seeing the film and say, we just had our first real conversation about his or her experience overseas.
And I thought, not expected. Really important. Can we take that a step further?
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: And so I created a journal to go along with the film. ’cause when I got back from being in combat and [00:07:00] Fallujah, three things really helped me. One was journaling myself. was my brother Isaac, the West Point grad, calling me and how you doing?
He’d been in combat obviously as well. So he knew what the experience was like, knew that I’d been in combat over there. And so he talked me through, Hey, these are the things you can expect. Here’s some things you might wanna do. Here’s some things I recommend you don’t do. And that was super helpful.
It was super helpful and it wasn’t the only one that I’d ever experienced it. This was sort of a normal experience. This is normal feelings to feel. third thing was I had to explain what my experience was like to my producer and my editor who had never been to Mm-hmm.
And I had to watch and relive some of the most dynamic and sad moments ’cause I was filming them,
Scott DeLuzio: Yep.
Jake Rademacher: I had to watch ’em with a, and so I was, I didn’t know it at the time, but I was, I was sort of processing those experiences and so I.
I created a journal to go alongside the film. I showed it to Gary Sinise He said, let’s get that out there. Next thing I know, [00:08:00] I’m on a military base. I’m at Fort Riley, working with 400 soldiers, 30 days back from Iraq. The next day, 300 soldiers, you know, back from Iraq, 90 days. They assigned me to the division psychiatrist who had deployed with ’em, and we started going through the workbook and figuring out what questions I was gonna ask.
And so we played the film. What part of the film do you most relate to? They start journaling. We created a group discussion afterwards. That’s evolved over time. You know, the Oklahoma National Guard called me. They lost 15 soldiers in Afghanistan. Could you help us? Could you create a work? You know, I said yes.
We expanded the workshop to help deal with that issue. And then other issues, we, we created a workbook for family members and spouses. They loaned me about 10 spouses to kind of help build that workbook. We did that for about 7,000 folks. 3,500 soldiers. 3,500 family members. It became a six hour workshop, and we’ve now done that workshop for about 40,000 service members and their families.
And, you know, 98% would recommend it to other military families. And in, in, in, in [00:09:00] 2019, really before that, we got started on it. But Gary Sinise and I sat down and I said, look, I’d really, you know, after working with literally tens of thousands of veterans, I’d really like to go revisit the ones I embedded with the friends I made in Iraq.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: Some I still stayed in contact with, but some I had lost contact a little bit with. And he said, absolutely. so I shot a little proof of concept, which is actually in the movie. And then in 2019, jumped in with both feet and the Gary Sinise Foundation started sponsoring all our workshops. And they also sponsored me to go and make this new film called Brothers After War, wherein I traveled four continents from 2019 to about 2023.
And I, I followed up with my two brothers and then 10 friends I made in Iraq. And the film cuts between footage that I shot in 2005, 2006 in Iraq to the modern day.
Scott DeLuzio: Okay.
Jake Rademacher: heard from other veterans is the magic of the film is you see the war fighter in the war zone and then you cut to the [00:10:00] veteran, they become.
Scott DeLuzio: I, I like how that that dynamic, how they kind of play off each other because I’ve seen these pictures of, I. World War ii, I think it was World War II era soldiers, uh, like a before picture and an after picture of someone who just this young innocent looking face just, it looks like just a, a, you know, regular kid.
You know, in the before picture. And then this person went through hell in, you know, whatever battles that they were fighting in and the picture after. And they, they talk about that thou thousand yard stare or, or whatever. And it’s just like, he’s just looking right through you. And that’s the, the picture that you get afterwards.
And that’s just two snapshots, two very quick moments in time. And it tells a pretty compelling story with those just two quick photos of, of that individual. [00:11:00] But then you take a video you know, the, the film that you, you did and you’re, you’re filming. Hey, what did this guy go through? And you’re actually seeing that kind of black box that was in the middle of those two pictures.
You’re seeing the the combat, the, the issues that, that he, he had to go through and then now post war af after war what is that guy going through at this point? And it’s gotta gotta tell a pretty interesting story, right? Seeing the, seeing the, the, those differences between people, like what, what they went through and then now what are they going through now?
You know? I, I, I think, I think that that. Perspective is, is something that is missing from the, the whole story. You can talk about veterans having PTSD you know, all these different issues but without understanding the why it, it, it’s kind of an abstract concept to a lot of people, I think, [00:12:00] right?
Jake Rademacher: Yeah, I, I think you’re a hundred percent right about that. And, and one thing that was coming to my mind when I was listening to you talk about that was that, you know, like Frank McCann, one of the snipers I embedded with there’s a piece of his interview and you can see the thousand yards there in
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: as he’s talking to me and he’s talking about killing, taking life,
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: in the, and we’re in the SUNY triangle, we’re in his hooch.
We’re like, talk, you know, we’re having that deep, deep conversation and he’s talking to somebody who’s out there with him, right? And then we cut to the modern day and he’s the best father I.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: a father of a girl with special needs. I think the film becomes a question of, of what and why and how.
Right? So we’re, we’re peeling back those layers. And the fact that I know these guys and they know what I’ve been doing in the meantime, I really get away with asking them tough questions with kind of digging in.
Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
Jake Rademacher: And in his case, you know, what you see in the film is he’s like, I don’t know that I really changed.
I was [00:13:00] like, what are you talking about, Frank? Like, I know you were yelling at people. He goes, oh, well that’s kind of true, you know? And he is like, well, I went to the VA and I talked to somebody 22 times. And goes Really nice. You know? And it’s like, a clue there, right? There’s a, there’s a nugget.
There’s like this guy who was in it
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: like on a mission with him in, in Iraq doing what they do. And then you cut to him now and you can see a change in him. Right. You can see that he’s gone on a journey and you can see how that, those 22 sessions really was able to sort of unpack things that were troubling him and, and what a profound difference that it’s made in him now.
Now he’s a master sergeant, he’s still serving, he’s got a child with special needs. In fact, maybe, you know, his, his wife even credits, you know, and he even says it’s a mission every day with my child. Like, so in some ways the services almost made him a better father,
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: you know? But he had the process.
He had to work through some things to get there. I think we, we explore that idea in a number of different [00:14:00] situations as well. One of ’em actually happens kind of in real time with Gunner, I had filmed, you know, cresting the face of somebody who’s wounded in Iraq, and he kind of blows through it when I ask him, right?
And I go, wrong guy to do that too, I guess. But I was like, I was like gunner, I was there, I was like, grace on earth, the tenderness you had, you know? And I, I pushed in and got a closeup of that moment. And then he stops and he looks down and he gets really real. And he goes, he starts to cry a little bit.
And he goes, that’s just that intimate connection you have with another man.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: And he, he was mine, he was my soldier. And it hurts. And you know, he reached out to me a couple months after we, we, we did this three or four days of filming and he said, thank you for coming. It really helped. And so that was really insightful to me.
I mean, we were doing these workshops where we used the film ’cause we found movies make tough subjects easier to talk about. And we have all these people opening up and talking. But it was really incredible to have deep moments with my own friends in the [00:15:00] process of making the film where discoveries happened, where healing happened.
You know, that was also something very special about the making of brothers after war.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that sounds like a pretty special thing. And I can see how. It’d be kind of difficult for someone to perhaps relive some of those, those experiences. The, those experiences are, are things that are not normal situations that most people have to deal with in their, their lifetime. It’s not stuff that you can easily prepare yourself for.
You know, having a, a friend who’s seriously injured or worse killed you know, having, having those types of situations happen and then years later, hey, let’s, let’s dig that back up and let’s talk about that again. And sometimes that, that’s a really difficult thing to, to do. Some people are willing to talk about it and they’re, they’re open and they’re, they, they have no problem with it.
But other, other people, it’s. Really difficult. I know, like I, I wrote a book about my experiences in Afghanistan [00:16:00] and and, and kind of situations that that took place. And there were certain parts of the book as I was writing that I was like, you know, I’m gonna come back to that later. ’cause I am not really, I’m not really up for talking about that right now.
And it, and it, it took a while for me to circle back to it. And so I had like big gaping holes in the story as I was writing because it, it wasn’t really something I, I wanted to revisit it. It was painful, it hurt, and I, you know, it, it was really hard. But when I did, when I came back and I actually went through it again, and there’s something about the process of writing versus speaking.
It, it slows you down a bit. And that’s why I’m, when I want to talk a little bit more about these, these workbooks and, and the sessions that you do. But when, when you slow down in your writing, uh, things, your brain has a chance to process a little bit more information than it does when you’re speaking because you just don’t write as fast as you speak.[00:17:00]
And in, in doing so, it brought up things that I was like, holy shit, I forgot about that. I, I forgot all about this thing happening. But because I, I slowed down and I was writing the, the story out, it, it just kind of triggered those memories for me. And it you know, brought back a lot, you know, some stuff I. Maybe don’t necessarily wanna remember, but you know, it, it’s still part of what happened. So it, it’s there. I I, I shouldn’t bury it and just leave it down there. You know, with some of these, these workbooks and the sessions that you do with, with these soldiers how do you find their responses to going through the process of, of the questions that are in the workbook?
Jake Rademacher: Wow. Well, that was, that’s a good question. They, they frankly it’s a catalyst for healing.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: informative, it’s eye, you know, similar to your story of you know, it’s very interesting that you, you said, I, I started to write it and it’s [00:18:00] almost like you unravel the onion a little, And then I circled back. I waited on some of the stuff that was tougher, but then I kept going, and then I came back to it and I started writing it.
And, you know what, I’ve, what’s helped me feel okay about asking questions. Part of it, I was there. So that was very helpful. Secondly, though was I’ve learned that it’s actually therapeutic for them to talk about
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: they’re really not ready to talk about it, they won’t. You know, there were a couple of things for two of the, you know, soldiers that we, we, we didn’t talk about, right?
Like, they just weren’t willing to go there. So I said, okay, you know, like, they talked about a bunch of other stuff. There was a moment, and, and, and one of those moments actually, you know, Ben went off and went on a retreat with some other veterans and talked about it there, and then came back to me and talked to me about that moment where, where someone was, a friend was lost
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: and he was giving him CPR and he just wasn’t able to kind of talk about it at that time, you know, similar to yourself.
He just wasn’t ready. if [00:19:00] they’re ready, and I’m not, I have no problem asking him, no problem sitting there and I’m, I am capable and ready and willing to listen and to take it in. You know, I’ve really learned that it’s the, the sharing of the story is important. And then also we can also continue on a little bit further than that.
That. be useful for the film, but it’ll be useful for the veteran Right.
to help them maybe process that a little bit or think about it a little, you know, a little, almost like, first aid, first aid. You know, I’m, I’m not a therapist, but I’ve learned a ton by working with them and, and there’s a incredible value in you telling your story,
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: said something about journaling, like Julius Caesar, Marcus really used to make sense of their experiences. It’s an ancient warrior technique and there’s actually some science behind it. Something happens when you put your pen on that page and you start to move it across. I don’t know, like you said, if it’s slowing down or if you’re tapping into your subconscious, but something happens where you are triggering an ancient process of making sense [00:20:00] of your experience and, and therefore like processing it a little bit.
And I think unfortunately, a lot of veterans sort of heard the thing to do is to shove it in a box and forget about it. So
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: that, and what they don’t know is you’re not really healing from it. doesn’t really do any good in that box. At some point you need to pull it out. I think it’s better to pull it out.
Under your orders and supervision at a time that you deem appropriate.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: Like, let’s actually pull it out and work through it. Let’s work through it with somebody I trust, somebody who might have a idea of something about this kind of thing. So in my case, when making a film, I’m a pretty, pretty good person to do that with.
’cause I’ve spent all these times doing workshops. Two of my trainers have doctorates of social work in addition to being veterans, the themselves. So it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a safe space. I think that word gets overused, but it, but it is a good, a good moment in time to work through something. And I, I would imagine in writing your book, discovered that you may be needed to go back to some of these moments.
You needed to revisit it, that there [00:21:00] was something, while it felt painful in the moment, there was something, maybe a bit restorative about the process overall. Maybe you gained some insights or you put some things to rest that you really did kind of need to revisit.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and to your point that that box that we, that figurative box that we. Put things in and stuff ’em down and shove ’em away and we try to forget about ’em and just leave them there. I think of all of the the experiences, the memories, the things that we put in that box. Think about ’em, kinda like ice cubes and you’re putting ice cubes in a cardboard box and they’re gonna be fine for a little bit, but eventually they’re gonna start to melt and they’re gonna start leaking outta that box and they’re gonna become a me a disaster and a mess all over the place.
If you don’t take those things out and deal with them appropriately you know, before they become a mess. So, you know, it, it’s fine. There’s a time and a place to put things in a box and shove ’em down, you know, and you know, being in someone who has experienced combat. When you’re in that moment [00:22:00] and you’re dealing with maybe stuff at home or other personal issues, well that stuff’s gotta get.
Stashed away because that this is not the time or place to be worrying about that stuff. When bullets are flying over your head, you stuff that away, fine, no problem. In that, that moment. That makes sense. But when you get a chance, when you, when you’re back in a, you know, let’s use that word again, safe space.
When you’re in a place where you’re not worried about bullets flying over your head, or, you know, bombs going off underneath your feet or, or whatever, take some of that stuff outta that box because that box first off can only hold so much. And there’s a, there’s a timer on those things before those ice cubes start to melt, if that makes sense.
And, and I, I think I think to your point, like it opens you up to have more room in that box for other things because other things are gonna come around at some point. And you wanna make sure that that box is still structurally sound, that it’s able to. Receive [00:23:00] more stuff in that box. And if those ice cubes have melted, if you ever put water on cardboard, you know, it just kind of falls apart.
Right? And if those ice cubes melt, that box falls apart. And then you don’t really have a place to stuff those other things as they come up later on in life. And what are you gonna do with them? How are you gonna deal with that at, at that point? And I, I think that’s that, that’s kind of one of the, the issues that a lot of us deal with is that we don’t know where to put these issues anymore when our box has gone to shit and when our you know, either it’s overflowing or it’s just not capable of holding anymore anymore stuff.
And I, I think that’s, that’s one of the issues. I’m imagining that might be something that you’ve experienced with some of the, the folks that you have have chatted with, right.
Jake Rademacher: A a a hundred percent. I mean, you said a lot of great things there. You know, we, we did a screen of brothers after war recently, and I had a very special friend do a q and a with me. His name’s Everett Alvarez. And Everett was [00:24:00] the POW in North Vietnam. The, the, the flyer that was held the longest by the North Vietnamese.
So he was tortured North Vietnam eight and a half years as a prisoner of war. And he told the veterans of the war and terror that were there, that had come to see the film and hear us do a q and a afterwards. He said, first we talked to one another, then we talked to others, then we talked to our families.
That was how we came home. That was how we processed our experiences. And Everett went on to be very successful. He was divorced while he was overseas. He got a Dear John letter while being a prisoner at war. A lot of vets have gone through divorce. You know, he got remarried. He’s been married for 50 years, he got his law degree.
Eventually went to work at the va, set up the vet centers, became a business owner. Very successful guy. Did everything you’d want as a veteran post service, post horrors of war, right? Which he definitely saw. And I, I just thought it was really valuable and I think we a space in our seminars to do that.
you watch the film, you journal about your own experience, and then if you feel inclined, you open up and [00:25:00] share as a group, as a community, you know, we try to recreate some of that comradery that folks have maybe had overseas or that kind of, that group’s experience. You know, theater created by the ancient Greeks, by Warriors to try to explain to the rest of society what being at war was like and what coming home was like.
they used to say the ancient Greeks, that war coming home was when the war started. So I just, I just think like this, this film has been a very valuable learning experience for me, but also one for the general public.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: it sort of has two facets, right? We have the movie, is. Illuminative for those who have never served for family members of those who’ve served.
Obviously family members aren’t ’cause I’m a family member, but it’s, their spouses earn it so they see themselves, but it’s also a deeper dive into that person maybe sleeping next to them or living in the same house
Scott DeLuzio: Mm.
Jake Rademacher: or, or they’ve had a relationship with it. Maybe it’s a little estranged. Sometimes brothers have kind of faded apart over time.
So I think the film offers a lot of insight into our [00:26:00] veterans, which then creates empathy, which then creates more connection and communication, right? So
Scott DeLuzio: All right.
Jake Rademacher: good that comes from just the movie itself, you know, you can now see in your living room. So that’s part of it. And I think people can watch the film with a family member and then start to have a conversation about how the film relates to their own experience.
And that’s beautiful, right? Like the movie can actually be this conduit to communication and a better understanding and maybe says things for you as a veteran. then you can just kind of fill in the blanks after that and, so. You know, we’re, we’re very excited about that, that it’s available to all.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: And then with our seminars though, it’s sort of an invitation to kind of join us in a movie theater. ’cause we ran out of movie theater for four hours. You watch the film on the big screen, you come into that daydreaming landscape that we enter into in movies. But it’s, you know, it’s your story as a veteran, right?
then your family’s there with you if you want ’em. And then after that we journal with the film, we then make [00:27:00] the conversation about you, where you journal. We have group discussion and we sort of walk through some of these experiences. just did it a couple weeks ago. General Sharkey reached out, we’d worked with them with the Minnesota National Guard, with our first film.
they came home from the Middle East, so February 1st and second, 600 soldiers went through that with their families. Well, he asked us to come back and do the new film Brothers After War, I was like, okay, we’ve never done this before. This is gonna be exciting. And, and we were just there and it was incredible.
I’m thinking specifically about the Sunday where seminar, where we spent four hours and, you know, one of the questions, what part of the films you relate to Rich Responses. I was a bit surprised. Have any of your friends ever thought about suicide? Have you, how did you navigate it? And we had many service members open up and talk about a dark night of the soul, when they came close to, you know, pulling the trigger and why they didn’t, [00:28:00] what helped them get through it, and then what they’ve done to kind of, you know, what advice they could give to others.
it was, it was really incredible. You know, our workshop coordinator told me he, he was literally watching people heal in real time. Like some of them came with some pain and they needed to share their story and then they did in real time. And so my hope is we’re, the Gary Sinise Foundation is sponsoring 40 workshops and seminars this year for the next 12 months.
And so we’re gonna be taking brothers after war out on the road into communities across America. if you go to brothers after war.com, you can see are we already scheduled to be in your town? If not, you can reach out to us and ask us to come to your community. And if enough people ask us to come there, we will.
We’ll come there. We’ll, usually Saturdays are our day of choice just because veterans are working and they want to be able to come on their day off. But it’s a, it’s a great experience to kind of do a deeper dive with the movie.
Scott DeLuzio: The couple things that you had mentioned there. One [00:29:00] was kind of early on what you’re, you’re talking about what the, the understanding that the civilian folks or, or. I suppose even veterans who haven’t seen combat, but just that understanding that they get of what it is that someone actually had to experience because those cameras were there with them as they’re experiencing it.
And so, I, I understand that, you know, experiences vary from person to person. Even if you’re in the same foxhole with the same person, you may have two different experiences and to take away two different you know, sets of perspectives from the that experience. But it gives you a pretty good idea of what that guy is going through as, as you’re filming that person. Maybe taking a shot and ending someone’s life or caring for someone who’s wounded or you know, any number of different things that they may be going through. You can [00:30:00] kind of then put yourself in that position. It’s like, what, what would I be feeling if I’m sitting there and I got one of my friends who is injured or, you know, bleeding everywhere or, you know, whatever, screaming out in pain.
What would I be feeling? And now I can kind of understand what that other guy’s feeling. And then take that out to a more macro view. And you can now start to understand, stand why we have the problems that we have amongst the military and the veteran communities with the suicides and with the. Drug and alcohol abuse and any number of other things that people are going through is, you know, hey man, they just want to numb that pain and they don’t want to continue feeling it.
And so that’s why they’re, they may be doing some of the things that they’re doing. But another thing you, you mentioned, which I think is really important and you know, hopefully we can dive into this a little bit is when [00:31:00] people start opening up about things like suicide for example, and they share their experiences and maybe they were on that brink where that’s, they were just about to take that plunge or pull the trigger or whatever it was that they were about to do, and then they didn’t, for whatever reason.
I think that whatever reason that fill in the blank reason that they didn’t is really important to understand because. If you can plant that seed of whatever that reason is in somebody else’s head, then maybe that somebody else might say, you know what, I hadn’t really given that much consideration.
You know, I didn’t, because, you know, I didn’t want my kids to grow up without a father or something like that. You know, if that’s a reason. Okay, well maybe that just hadn’t occurred to somebody else and they have kids too, and now you planted that seed, or, you [00:32:00] know, I didn’t, because I don’t wanna, you know, whatever the reason is. They, there’s so many different reasons, but there’s so many things that maybe a commonality, a common link between the different people that are out there that are struggling. And if you can plant some of those seeds and say, Hey, this is, this is your reason not to do that might just be.
Enough to keep that person around another day. And I, I’ve heard from other people that sometimes it’s just eight minutes is all you need to go from that point where you’re actively thinking about ending your life to no longer thinking about it. And, and if we can plant that seed, that that makes it you know, makes it, that they think about it for at least, you know, 8, 10, 12 minutes, however long it is.
They, they’re thinking about, about that, that, that reason. [00:33:00] I think that’s a, a remarkable thing to come out of this. And I, I I think that would be, that would be a wonderful takeaway from,
from all of these sessions.
Jake Rademacher: it is, it is a good start. You know, it’s a good start. I think the, the reason why people don’t kill themselves, from what I’ve heard, is it’s either the love of something greater or the fear of something. And like what you said, the fear of their child growing up without them.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: And that’s enough fear for them not to do it.
In that moment, it’s enough to break through. It’s, it’s a state of mind. And so those are things that break through the state of mind. But I think the long-term solution, and you can hear in some of these people that do share the long-term solution, is to start to actually change. To actually change your life, change how you’re dealing with your life, to grab some tools you were refusing, you know, in the film, brothers After war, my, my own brother, oh, admits to me for the first time ever that he came half a pound of pressure away from taking his own life.
And the reason [00:34:00] why he’s not doing that now, or I’m not worrying about him now, is because he’s actually gone and done things very differently.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: to counseling for his anger. He’s a very different man now than he was then. He actually went off and deployed six more times. This time was special operations.
So he is actually exposed himself to more trauma, to more war, to more heartache, to more diff. He now has five kids. He had no kids. He’s got more pressure on him now than he did then. What’s changed? His tools, the way he’s thinking about it, the way
Scott DeLuzio: Yep.
Jake Rademacher: it. He refused to get couples counseling with his first wife.
That’s why she’s his first wife and not his second wife. Not sowing the second wife. They have gotten counseling, they have admitted there’s an issue. You know, he’s, he’s actively trying to work through things. He’s not denying something. doing the opposite. So I think that’s a big part of it. I think one of the other benefits of the movie, and I think of our seminars or, or how it helps folks encounter our veterans or why veterans feel maybe a little more easygoing about it, is the film’s holistic.[00:35:00]
You know, sometimes I think the mistake other movies make is they really hone in on a particular issue and it almost obs cates the, you know, the truth, you know, a veteran. And I think we do a good job of this in the movie. This film has humor. There’s a lot of it at my expense. But veterans are kind of funny.
It has adventure. I’m jumping out of airplanes with one of ’em because, you know, when I met him, Derrick was a recon guy out on the Syrian border talking about how the most amazing thing in life is to come at the Earth 150 miles an hour. So, of course now we have to jump out of an airplane with him because he’s the flying Viking.
You know, he’s a professional skydiver. So I have to go skydiving with him, which I do. He throws me out the side of an airplane so I can experience that side of life. And it, it’s very fun. It’s funny, it’s exciting. I go scuba diving with another veteran, Chris McKay. You know, this aspect of veterans as this as, as, as really complete human beings who’ve had these extraordinary experiences.
Some good,
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: some of [00:36:00] the moments we cut back from war are actually positive or comradery or, or insightful, you know, mind expanding moments. And I think it’s super important to sort of provide that wholeistic look. Whether you’re saying to someone outside that circle, like, here’s. Who veterans are, you know?
So you get a chance to take that in. But guess what? This is also to your point, Scott, this is also an aspect.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: If you’ve had some of those traumatic experiences and you’ve tucked ’em away and maybe not processed them, they, they do leave a little bit of a stain on the soul.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: we have to pull ’em out and look at ’em and explore ’em and talk ’em.
But guess what? There’s hope there. It, it is possible to work through some of these things, and it is possible to move to a place where if you have that voice in your head saying it’s time to go, I’ve talked to some people is that voice can become more distant and quieter and further in the backseat, [00:37:00]
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: doesn’t happen from doing nothing.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
Jake Rademacher: actually have to do some of the work associated with, you know, moving through some of those experiences that are haunting you
Scott DeLuzio: yeah,
Jake Rademacher: up and sharing and talking and working on it.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah. And unfortunately, also doing nothing probably allows that voice to get even louder.
Um, because
if that’s all, that’s the only voice that you’re hearing that you know, the classic, you know, cartoon, angel and Devil on your shoulder. And if all you’re listened to is that that devil with the bad ideas, it’s just gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger.
You’re gonna get to the point where all you’re able to hear is, is those negative thoughts and the good positive things they’re gonna become in the rear view mirror, like you were saying before, they’re gonna be smaller and smaller and they’re gonna start to fade away. And then when all you’re hearing is negative in your head, [00:38:00] you’re, you’re putting yourself down.
You know, you’re, you’re talking bad about yourself and, and your experiences. I’m, I’m no good, I’m, I’m this, that and the other. And you, you just are using all these negative terms about yourself. You start to believe it and it kind of starts to rewire the brain a little bit to the point where almost like you can’t be convinced otherwise, and that’s not a good place to be in.
And so you, you wanna, you wanna make sure that. That voice doesn’t get so loud that the positive voice can’t be heard. And or, or when it is heard, you’re like, yeah, I don’t really believe it. And, you know, I don’t, I don’t know what else to do. You know? And, and then you, you sort of feel stuck. It’s like, there there is, there’s no path to more positivity, a better life, you know, happier times or anything like that.
It, it almost seems like you have no other options [00:39:00] which isn’t true, but you start to convince yourself of that. And that’s, that’s unfortunately probably where we start to see where we, we start losing people and, yeah.
Jake Rademacher: so right. You know, I’m literally, when you’re talking, I almost can hear Chris McKay in the film saying, well, I’ve kind of done my thing. You know, I’m in his pickup truck in Nashville. He picks me up and it’s like Friday night lights, you know, the lights shining through and we’re filming from behind.
And just reveals to me like, yeah, it was suicidal. You know, he talk, starts talking to me, and, and at this point in the movie, I’m like, take me through that. What is that like?
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: Because I’ve just, you could, you’ve been on this journey with me, but I’ve been on a journey and I’m like, okay, like, what’s going on?
Like, what is this like? And he does, he generously takes me through it. And it’s very similar to what you say. feel like, well, you know, the world would be better off without
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: And they really feel that way. And it’s, it’s sad it’s not the case.
Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.
Jake Rademacher: You know, the, the world would [00:40:00] be better with you, especially if you’re a veteran.
And if you feel that way, there’s probably something you need to work through. There’s probably a trauma in the past that if you were to get after that knot and unravel it a little bit, while it would be painful if you found the right person to through it with, you may surprise yourself and heal and really open up a new path for yourself.
And, and in the film you see that Chris is actually on a new path. He’s actually, he’s going to Honduras to reach out to a veteran who’s killing himself with alcohol and drugs, you know, spiraling. And in the end, the mission’s successful. You know, in the moment it’s not, they, they make contact, but he ref, you know, he ends up blowing him off and not going out with him to teach Scott a paraplegic how to, how to, how to a WMT actually how to, how to better, how to sc dive.
Doesn’t go, doesn’t show up, but he reaches out three months later and leaves the island and is today alive and doing well. And it’s in part thanks to [00:41:00] Chris working through his own demons and then figuring out for him the path is to help someone else.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And that’s why I think it’s so important for people to share their stories, you know, the good and the bad. You know, the, you know, we, we have. You know, everybody has low moments in their life. You know, times where they’re, they’re down a little depressed and, you know, maybe you know, just having rough, a rough go at it you know, in that moment.
But then something clicks and you kind of figure yourself out. And when you get to that point and you, you start to figure things out, why, why not share? Why? Keep that to yourself. Why not share it with, especially people who might be close to you, you know, if you serve with that person or whatever, and you know they’re having a tough time, share your story. That might be the thing that flicks that light bulb on in their head and they’re like, yeah, you know what?
That’s the [00:42:00] piece I was missing and that’s the thing that is gonna keep me going. And, you know, may, maybe it’s not, maybe that’s not exactly how it works, but. Man, why not try, you know, like, it, it’s not gonna, it, it’s not gonna hurt anything by sharing that story.
Jake Rademacher: It’s not gonna hurt anything. And you’ve, you’ve kind of talking about something else. I think that’s valuable. And the other end of that coin is, I, I, I feel like community,
Scott DeLuzio: mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: now I’ve learned from doing these workshops and seminars now for damn near 21 years. I’ve been on this project. Reach out community.
Community is important.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: Your community is important. So when I went through tough things in my life, like I was an international custody battle for my child, built a community around me that could support
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: I didn’t try to lay it all on one person ’cause people have lives. But I knew I needed a group, I needed a tribe to get through this.
I needed people that I could talk to. I needed to vent, I needed to express it. I needed to pro, I couldn’t [00:43:00] just this on my own.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: would destroy me and I actually would be ineffective and I wouldn’t get my kids home. so by creating a community, by processing my experiences actively by talking to others, was able to through it.
Seven months later, I have full custody of my daughter. 15 months after that agreement has been made to bring the boy home. And now my kids, I’m gonna have ’em after school today
Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
Jake Rademacher: gonna go back and forth between their mom and i. I got to an end state was acceptable, that was quite good for my kids and for
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: for me.
But I would never have gotten there if I would not have known how to process and function through trauma and be effective. you know, so like that idea of telling your story super important, but it also, someone probably needs to hear
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: the person who needs to hear needs advice. I just, if someone’s listening and they’re like, how do I get through things?
I would say build a [00:44:00] community. We are tribal,
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: wolf pack, you know? And you, you, you probably served overseas because of that comradery, that brotherhood, that feeling of family. You need that back here
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: as much. But it’s not a free gift. You know, you were in Afghanistan if you were probably bonded with those guys closer than just about anybody ever.
I mean, I know the friends I made, I’m still super close to some of those
Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.
Jake Rademacher: I would be. But I still need a community back
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: I need some friends that maybe I was overseas with, but I also need friends. I wasn’t, it’s more work. It,
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: to do, but if you know it’s valuable, if you know you actually need it, you can put in the time and the energy to create that group back here.
I think sometimes veterans don’t know that and they don’t know that, like they actually need. A small team. They need to continue that, that element of, of humanity. And, and they have to create that for themselves in order to process their [00:45:00] experiences and to, to function at and, and, and really to thrive.
’cause I don’t want vets just to survive. I want ‘ em to thrive.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: want ’em to live their best lives. I want ’em to. You talked about World War II vets. You know, the other thing about World War II vets after those two snapshots you talked about is they rebuilt our country and they, they came home and transformed the nation and made it the number one economic superpower in the world.
And I think that’s because they, they joined clubs. They sat on boats and told their stories for five weeks. They got parades. People knew where they were, what their service meant, why it was important. They felt a sense of purpose and then they really wanted to get onto the next part of their life.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: I think I would love to see our generation of veterans and our modern community sort of adopt that for this group.
I. in some ways is even more valuable because this is the group that volunteered to service and
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: up years of their life to do it, and I think it’s our most valuable resource.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And when, when you’re talking about, you know, combat [00:46:00] scenarios that are lasting decades it’s a truly a multi-generational conflict where you had parents at the early stage of, of the war, uh, sending their kids off towards the end, or, or not the end, but the later stages of the war. And I mean, that, that doesn’t happen like, you know, most conflicts that the country has been in, it’s been over in a few years.
And like that’s, that’s just a, a crazy thing to think about is that you know, your, your kids could be fighting the same war that you were fighting. Way back all those years. And you know, one of the things I, one of my interpreters he, he asked me when, when we were over in Afghanistan, he said, you know, why are you here?
Like, meaning me specifically not the United States or the Army, or, you know, anything like that. Why, why am I here? And I said, quite frankly, I, I don’t want my son to have to fight this war. You know, when, when he’s older which he’s, he’s almost at that age now where he, he’s gonna be you know, able to [00:47:00] join the military.
And I don’t want him to have to go to Afghanistan, fight over there. Like, if anything hey, go there as a tourist or something like that. You know, the way you know, someone might, might go to, you know, Italy or Germany or Japan or places like that where yes, we were at war with those countries, but you can go and visit those now, and it’s perfectly safe and it’s perfectly fine to do.
You don’t have to worry about getting shot at or being thrown in, you know, prisons or anything like that because you’re an American like. It, it’s perfectly safe to go to these places. Unfortunately that’s not gonna, that’s not the case. It doesn’t look like with Afghanistan. It, you know, I don’t, I don’t see my kids going there ever, you know, like, not that, that, not that it’s much of a tourist hotspot anyways, but still the, the principle there is that you know, I didn’t want my kids to have to have to be there with a rifle and body armor and all that other stuff.
If they were to go there, I wanted it to be by choice because they wanted to go [00:48:00] visit and, and take in the sites or, you know, whatever the case may be. But kind of went off on a little tangent there, but it, it,
Jake Rademacher: know, I, I gotta jump in there
Scott DeLuzio: yeah.
Jake Rademacher: just that, that is, we see that in this movie.
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: Kenton, David Kenton says, I kept deploying ’cause I didn’t want my kids to have to
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: deployed 13 times as a Marine and then his son deployed four times. So we saw that in this film. My nephew was literally three years old in the first movie.
He deployed, I catch up with him. He’s 20 years old.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: to Fort Drum to see where he was. So we’ve, we’ve seen that in this, in this, in this particular movie. We have that as a, as a snapshot and then even a couple of veterans. ’cause I really looked at the concept in making the film. It’s like the story of the veteran as told through 12 veterans
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: as sort of the concept of the movie in a way, or the one that it evolved into.
And
Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
Jake Rademacher: together and going, how am I gonna actually put this together and make an hour and 45 minute experience? What it, what came to [00:49:00] me in the course of cutting the film was it’s the story of the veteran as told through 12 vets. And that is that part of the story is in there. And in addition to what you’re saying runs so strongly through our veterans you know, one of them said, oh yeah, Grundy, who parachuted in with the 75th Ranger regimen into Afghanistan, first guys on the ground.
Yep. My kids are going. You could see ’em. We’re, we’re sure those two boys are going in the military. The last one I I run into Ben, is I don’t want my kids to serve. They want to, I’ll support it, but I really don’t want ’em to, I’d
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: do something else, and the fishers have been in every war, but I hope mine aren’t in the next one.
And I, I, I, I think that’s such a rich, interesting thing to explore and look at. It’s so, it’s so multifaceted, you know, this, this desire to take that pain and suffering away from the next generation and try to, to do it in their place. And in addition to what you said, we’re in Italy. brother Joe is [00:50:00] serving where his grandfather Joe served in World War ii, literally shot down out of an airplane.
And we go visit the exact spot
Scott DeLuzio: Wow.
Jake Rademacher: spent the last six months of the war fighting with the Italian partisans. And now Joe, years later, is actually serving in the country. His grandfather liberated. And we also go to where my great uncle got a silver star and then died in Sicily with my mom. And then we revisit his grave while we’re at his grave, his great nephews and nieces kiss his grave and then kiss all the stones of those next to him.
And my mom says, that is in my mind what they gave their life for so that the next generation could have a, a more free and richer life themselves. So
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: I just think what you said is really beautiful and insightful and sort of I’ve seen play out in this 15 years cinema journey, you know, firsthand. And then the final thing I’m gonna say to you is this.[00:51:00]
I work with so many vets that there was a moment when ISIS was in Iraq and all seemed to be lost. But now I talk to, and I just got done working with soldiers two weekends ago that came back from Iraq. They were serving Iraq. I was in Kuwait myself. You, you know. year about this time doing some workshops for the 40th ID coming home to California.
We don’t know what’s gonna happen in Afghanistan, know, and for 20 years our service members, you know, bled and sweat and grunted in that godforsaken country. But while they were there, the literacy rate went from 9% when you all got there to about 30% when you left
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: girls who never could get educated past the third grade, some went all the way through college.
If you wanna elevate a society, you give resources to the women. And you guys gave a lot of resources to a lot of girls and a lot of women. And we don’t know that’s gonna end up
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Jake Rademacher: in 10 or 20 years. Those are a lot of seeds to plant. so I say [00:52:00] with Afghanistan, let’s just wait and see.
Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
Jake Rademacher: a Taliban’s problem now.
And we’ll see how they do Right. also gotta deal with all those. of education and thought provoking and widening of perspectives, and they’ve got the different tribes to try to figure out. Potentially it’ll be as oppressive as it was, but maybe not, maybe not, you know? have to see.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I, I think that’s right. We will, we’ll have to see you know, there’s, there’s some things that, that definitely could happen. You know, whether or not they, they play out, who knows. But you know, my, my initial reaction during the withdrawal from Afghanistan was like, look, we gave ’em a lot of resources, a lot of tools.
We trained a lot of their people. My hope was that they were gonna, within the next, like the first couple weeks, that they were gonna form their own, you know, militias and things like that, and take the fight back to the Taliban on their own. That didn’t seem to play out you know, the way I was, I was [00:53:00] hoping it would.
But you’re right, there’s still time. It’s not like just because it didn’t happen in the first couple weeks, it’s never gonna happen. Or that, you know, like you said, the women aren’t gonna continue to educate their children or, you know, other people in their, their communities. You know, may maybe they do do that, and that that continues that education and it, and it doesn’t just end with that one generation that, that got educated or two gener, however many generations got educated.
A lot of people got educated that otherwise never would’ve had the opportunity. And I think that’s, that’s an amazing thing. But but going back to the, the films and the, the workshops and the, the resources that are available I know, I know through. Countless conversations that you’ve probably had with, with all these, these folks who’ve gone overseas, come back, gone through some of these workshops, seen the films what resources or maybe steps or, or things that are out there would you recommend [00:54:00] to folks who might be struggling with, maybe it’s post-traumatic stress, maybe it’s the transition from military to veteran, may, maybe they’re struggling with an, any number of things there.
There’s gotta be some resources out there that maybe you’ve found people saying that they, they used X, Y, or z resource and it’s really helped them in fill in the blank situation. What, what are some of the ones that, that seem to be a little more common with the, the folks that you’ve, you’ve spoken with?
Jake Rademacher: Yeah, I mean, it’s a great question. I, I, I think that look after our last brothers after war seminar three vets, this one was a Newport News in November, three vets went outside and signed up for a counseling at the, the, the Mobile Vet Center. obviously some vets have gotten relief at the va.
I, I just say this, when I’m talking to veterans, my. that work for me. So they have the certificates. Say 50% of counselors suck and the other [00:55:00] 50% will save your life. So if you have a bad experience, just understand the process. It’s actually your journey and you’re looking for someone who can hear you, understand you, that you feel comfortable
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: feel is knowledgeable.
And if you’re not getting that sense, move on to the next one.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
Jake Rademacher: You know, you probably wouldn’t marry the first girl you met. You maybe shouldn’t marry the first counselor you meet,
Scott DeLuzio: sure.
Jake Rademacher: few. You know, wouldn’t let a mechanic work on your car unless you felt they could make it better.
It’s probably the same on your internal mental health, you know,
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Jake Rademacher: out there that can do something you can’t do with your truck or your car. And it’s, it’s very similar with mental health.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
Jake Rademacher: is a great tool and asset Boulder Crest Warrior Path. You know, one of the soldiers at Chris McKay talks about how that transformed his life in the film.
I’ve seen tons and talked to tons of vets that have really benefited those seminars. You know, then the, if you’re struggling with alcohol and drug, I’ve heard Warrior Your Heart is great. You know, they do retreats paid for. You know, sometimes it, it, you know, for some folks if, if they’ve [00:56:00] lost a parent in the war of the Gary Sinise Foundation has a wonderful program for, for the children of are Fallen.
They’ve also got great programs for folks who, you know, may need some additional assistance. the Gary Sinise Foundation is always a fantastic place to, to turn for resources. They have about 32, 33 programs they sponsor. You know, those would sort of be my top choices.
Scott DeLuzio: sure.
Jake Rademacher: I, I think also, if I can be as bold as to say, I think watching one of these movies or both these movies can be a great place to start as well.
And, and I would give you a hint on how to do that. I, I think I would watch the film and I would watch it with the family member that I trust. The one that I feel like most likely I could
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: that’s your spouse or your girlfriend or your boyfriend or whatever. But it, it doesn’t have to be it could see somebody you served with.
It could be a friend, it could be a brother, it could be a father, it could be someone you actually feel has the capacity to hear your story and care and [00:57:00] say something actually intelligent in response. You know, it is important who you talk to, who you bear your soul to.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: wanna just do it to every dick, Tom and Harry, you know, not everybody’s built to actually be able to understand it or hold space for you.
you wanna really talk to the person you feel like, I think this person could actually handle it if I was to open up a little bit. But I think watch a film, watch a film. I think our films are really great with it because it, it, it kind of. Can trigger in a good way, can kind of stimulate some of those memories, stimulate some of those feelings.
You have to feel it to heal it. have to find a good place to feel it. And then have a conversation journal about it. Start to communicate. The more you communicate, the earlier you communicate, what you’re really doing is processing your experiences. an element of need to process it.
And something you said at the very beginning of this was you talked about post-traumatic growth. And that’s a concept that I think is very exciting. This idea that these things that [00:58:00] we’ve had that are traumatic, if we process these experiences appropriately,
Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
Jake Rademacher: we actually can pull something really positive from ’em and they can, we can be left with the dragon’s elixir.
We can be left with something that will transform our lives and make it richer from here on out, and be something we can use to help other people.
Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
Jake Rademacher: exciting. That’s exciting. The idea that, you know. my brother once said, the grass is just greener. You know, the colors are richer. That’s exciting.
You might actually be able to appreciate and enjoy life in a much richer way than somebody who’s never been to war or never experienced trauma if you process it properly
Scott DeLuzio: Right.
Jake Rademacher: that, and that’s, that’s an incredible gift and an incredible incentive for me to take that on and to figure out a way to do it.
Scott DeLuzio: You know, it, it’s been described to me before, emotions as kind of like a pendulum that, that swings back and forth where you have the good emotions, the happiness, joy, those, those [00:59:00] types of things. And the other side, you have sadness and anger and grief and, you know, all these other things on the other side, and they swing equally in each direction.
And so if you’re just swinging very close to that center pivot point, you’re not really experiencing any great joy or happiness. You’re also not really experiencing much sadness or grief, or you’re kind of just, eh, like in the middle. Like you just almost apathetic. You almost just don’t care at that point. But if you can, if you can start to swing far to one side or the other and. Process the, the, the grief or the sadness or the negative experiences maybe that you’ve had. And you, you start to swing far to that other side, you’re gonna be able to swing back to the other side and really experience some of the happiness and the joy and the, the good things that come out of life.
Took me a long time to [01:00:00] understand it, but when it was described to me as a, as a pendulum, that swings back and forth and we’re gonna go both, both directions throughout life. We’re gonna, we’re gonna have good happy times, we’re gonna have sad hard times, and we’re gonna have all of those times. But when it was described to me that way, as, as that pendulum, it, it started to make a little bit more sense to me.
Because you, you can’t, you can’t appreciate the light without the darkness. You can’t appreciate the the happiness without the sadness to know like, Hey, it could be this bad. So, yeah, I’m gonna appreciate that happiness, you know, and so that, that pendulum analogy is really something that made it make sense to me anyways.
Hopefully that the way I described it made sense. Maybe I was just rambling and it didn’t make any sense what I was talking about. I’m just talking about a pendulum. But hopefully it made sense to some other folks.
Jake Rademacher: No, I think that’s a beautiful way to look at it. I
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
Jake Rademacher: a ton of truth there. I I, you know, I also, you know, it’s funny, I, I, in taking on these seminars in [01:01:00] 2011, 2012, I had to talk to a chaplain and go like, how do you do this? Like, it’s, ’cause it, it can be a bummer, kind of like to talk through with vets.
They’re
Scott DeLuzio: yeah,
Jake Rademacher: experiences, right? It, can get what they call I can’t think of what it’s caregivers fatigue or something like
Scott DeLuzio: sure.
Jake Rademacher: what he told me was, it’s similar to your pendulum thought was I plan something really positive to do afterwards. I, and so it’s almost an idea of like, you can go in the darkness.
If you plan something positive
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: you, you, find that equal balance, you know, like, I love that idea. Like, I think you’re a hundred percent right if you swing into it, the joy can be so much richer. And as far as the pendulum swings, and I, and I think also if you have to go into the sadness a little bit, it’s plan something exciting, something fun, something you enjoy afterwards.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
Jake Rademacher: Like allow yourself to, to swing across the pendulum of emotion is, is another thing that I thought of a little bit while you were talking about that, because I think that’s a really beautiful metaphor.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, [01:02:00] and you know, if you are going, let’s say going to therapy and, you know, okay, we’re gonna be talking about this awful thing in therapy today, well maybe plan something cool and fun afterwards. That, that you can go do, you know, right after the, the therapy session or shortly thereafter. So you can look, be looking forward to that.
It’s like, yeah, I know I’m gonna have to put in this work and do the hard thing talking about these difficult situations, but then I’m gonna get to go, you know, have ice cream at my kids or something like that, or, you know, whatever. Just something enjoyable, whatever it is that you find enjoyable. You know, just find that thing and then do that so that it’s not all focused on the negative and the, the sadness and the hurt and the pain and the suffering and all the, the negatives. You got a little bit of happiness in there too. And you know, it’s kind of just putting some icing on top of the, of the cake, you know, and, and
making it a little easier. [01:03:00] Yeah, yeah,
Jake Rademacher: you’re going to eat those vegetables, maybe, maybe, maybe like you said that that’s, then you get some icing on the
Scott DeLuzio: sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It kinda,
Jake Rademacher: You’re not really hiding it, you’re not
Scott DeLuzio: no.
Jake Rademacher: over your cake. You’re, but you really are accepting the fact that you’re doing something a bit difficult, but also counterbalancing it,
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: balance is the thing that came out to me when you were talking.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And it, and it’s kind of like, you know, as a kid, you know, you gotta eat your vegetables if you want to have a dessert, you know, and, and that’s, that’s kind of the, the same idea. It’s like the vegetables aren’t all that great and exciting maybe, but the D dessert kind of is. So. All right, fine. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll deal with the vegetables for now so I can get to the dessert.
So I think that’s, that’s kind of the gist of it. But before we wrap up I want to give you an opportunity to let folks know where they can go. Again, I think you mentioned it earlier, but just tell us again where they can go to find out more information. First off, about the films where they, they can find the, the, those films but also the, the workshops.
I know you said they’re going all around the country. Is there a schedule listed [01:04:00] somewhere and where, where they can find all that?
Jake Rademacher: Absolutely. So, brothers After War is sort of the hub for everything. You can shoot us an email info at Brothers After War if you’ve got any questions. Secondly, if you, if you want to bring the seminar to your town there’s a form there you can fill out.
Scott DeLuzio: Okay,
Jake Rademacher: Typically we want to see about a hundred folks that we’re doing the seminar for in order to bring it to a town.
But you may not be the first person reaching out. And sometimes we’ll go somewhere and then, and build the audience out once we kind of plant the flag on the date. So that’s, yeah. Brothers after war and then the film, you know, iTunes, Amazon, anywhere you’d, you’d see a film, you can find it. You know, I hope people enjoy it, appreciate it.
We’ve also a very active Facebook community and Instagram, so there’s a lot of people that will
Scott DeLuzio: great.
Jake Rademacher: after seeing the film go on and, share their thoughts and feedback and comments encouragement to others. You know, there was a little bit of trepidatious for some of our vets to see the film.
Like, oh, I don’t know if I can handle that. And so it was really kind of beautiful [01:05:00] because some went on opening night and then they came back like two days later and like, I saw it, it was fine. I wasn’t, I felt some feelings you know, including laughter and humor, but like, I, it was fine. It was good.
It was actually really helpful in healing and all that. It wasn’t too much. And so then you see other veterans go, okay, I’m gonna go check it out.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And
Jake Rademacher: I, just really enjoyed that, you know, that back and forth happening.
Scott DeLuzio: yeah, and I, I think to that point, it kind of goes back to the vegetables and the, the dessert. You know, like. There, there’s some dessert in this, this film. There’s, there’s the laughter, there’s the, the funny stuff, but there’s also some, some serious topics too. And, and I, I think that that’s you know, a, a good takeaway is that it’s, it’s balanced.
It, it’s not all focused on you know, the war and the combat and the death destruction and all the, the negatives that there’s, there’s some funny stuff in there too. And I think especially veterans, we have a, a unique sense of humor. I, I would say and I think we can, we can appreciate that, that kind of sense of humor especially [01:06:00] because I’m, I’m sure that that’s exactly what you’re talking about in this in this film.
Jake Rademacher: Yeah, the film’s a full meal. You
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: there’s, some good red meat steak in there too, and vegetables and all, all kinds of good stuff. And we, we, you know, Gary Sinise and I really took a lot of time with it, you know, he was our executive producer and he was on this from the beginning. And I finished the film and then played it for him.
And he had great ideas and thoughts. I sh I played it for veterans, got their thoughts, played it for people who were not veterans, got their thoughts. And so the film is a very refined piece of art in that it’s really looking at the experience of watching it and, you know, we don’t hit you too many times in the same place.
You know, we keep keep it moving and, and move on to the next thing. And, and some of the funniest scenes are after some of the saddest because it’s just, you know, and there’s so much solution built into the film as well. And I think in the end, people finished brothers after war with a lot of hope.
There’s a lot of hope. And so, you know, that was absolutely by design. You know, we, we, we were very mindful of. What [01:07:00] is the experience watching this film? You know, and Gary Sinise himself is an award-winning filmmaker. I am as well. And so that, that, that is, that was thought of in this movie. I really wanted to take people on a, a great ride.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
Jake Rademacher: And I, and you know, so far that, so far so good. I mean, that’s what people have been coming back to us and saying that the film is it’s been tremendously well received.
Scott DeLuzio: Well, I, based on this conversation here, I, I feel like it’s, it’s something that a lot of folks are going to go out and check out the, the film and you know, hopefully have even more positive feedback for the, the films. So again, all those links that you mentioned will be in the show notes for the listeners.
So you can, you can check it out there, you can find out if they’re coming to a city near you. If not, you can request that they come out to a city near you and, and maybe they’ll, they’ll be able to get something going. And like you said, you shoot for around a hundred people. You don’t have to come up with all a hundred people on your own.
There might be [01:08:00] 99 other people who already reached out and are, are looking for, for this type of thing in, in your city. So, just, you know, reach out and, and let ’em know that you’re interested and, and you know, hopefully we can get, get something going in a, a city near you. So, Jake, thank you so much for coming on the show, sharing the, the journey that you went on.
This is not the typical journey that you, you hear of from, from most people who are involved in your line of work. But, but when you go through this you, you’ve definitely you know, found some positivity to come out of it and, and you found a great way to you know, help out a lot of people and you know, looking forward to see how many more people get helped out as as these workshops go throughout the country.
So, looking forward to, to hearing from you again.
Jake Rademacher: Awesome, Scott. Thank you. Thanks for having me on.
Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you bet.