Episode 534 Stephen Bump Treating Veteran Transition Like an Experiment Transcript

This transcript is from episode 534 with guest Stephen Bump.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Taking off the uniform is easy. Building a new reputation, finding direction, and creating a career that feels right is where the real fight begins. Many veterans step into civilian life expecting that their service record will carry some weight. Instead, they discover that most people in the office don’t care about the medals that they earned or their rank, and that shock can lead to frustration and even isolation in some veterans.

Steven Bump. Knows this feeling. After 12 years in the Air Force, he entered corporate America, then built his own consulting firm from the ground up. His path is proof. That purpose does not end when the uniform comes off. It just takes humility, balance, and the courage to chart your own course. Before we get into this episode, though, I do want to raise some awareness for something important to our community, the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation.

This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor service members, families, and civilians who are [00:01:00] impacted by the global war on terrorism. The memorial will stand as a tribute to those who served. And a way to ensure that their sacrifices are remembered for generations to come.

To learn more about the memorial or support their mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now let’s get into this conversation and hear how one veteran turned uncertainty into a new mission.

Scott DeLuzio: Hey Stephen, welcome to the show. I’m really glad to have you.

Stephen Bump: Thanks. Thanks for inviting me.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So, before we kind of jump into everything that you do and, and you know, kind of your your story and all the stuff that we’re gonna talk about in, in just a minute here for the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with you and, and your background and everything tell us a little bit about your, your journey maybe from the Air Force kind of transitioning out and how, how you got into doing what you’re doing [00:02:00] now.

Stephen Bump: Sure. So I, you know, I’ll start with my Air Force background. So I spent 12 years active duty in the Air Force. Started off, I was actually gonna be a Chinese linguist enlisted in the Air Force, but then I got picked up to go to the Air Force Academy. Shortly after, so never even learned Chinese, but went to the Air Force Academy, studied engineering, and then my first duty assignment as a second lieutenant was at Vanderberg Air Force Base, and I was an aerospace engineer doing space launch which was a really cool first assignment. Very. Geeky. And then I spent three years as a project manager in the Air Force Research Lab. And so then after that, that kind of wrapped up my military career, I transitioned out. And then I went to work for a big pharmaceutical company, Eli Lilly. This was 11 years ago. So at the time, Eli Lilly was not as well known as they are now, but it’s now, you know, one of the biggest companies in the world, I think by, by Market Cap.

I think they’re top 10 right now. So, they’ve been growing like crazy over the past few years. So spent seven years working [00:03:00] at Eli Lilly. As I was wrapping up that assignment, I got an MBA from the University of Michigan, and then shortly after graduating from Michigan, I actually left Lilly and, through. I went and worked for a small consulting firm for a while and then eventually went out on my own, started a project management consulting firm called Prosperity. Started that three, yeah, a little over three years ago. Initially it was just me, so, I was just essentially self-employed, but then a year ago I decided to scale it. Hired my first employee a year ago and up to five, five of us now. And continuing to grow.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that’s, that’s awesome. So, I’d like to talk a little bit about kind of how your military experience has kind of influenced your, your post-military career. So from the corporate world to you know, consulting and, and into now, you know, kind of running, running your own show. You know, how, how did all that, that experience influence your, your career?

Did, did you think that that was, was kind of beneficial for you? You know, what, what was, what, [00:04:00] I guess more, more accurately, what was the, the most beneficial for you in, in terms of your, your experiences? I.

Stephen Bump: I think I’ll, I’ll highlight two things. One is just the service oriented mindset of serving in the military. You know, everybody in the military is very servant minded, and that’s first and foremost. You know, you’re serving your country, your country, you’re serving your teammates. Just service is front of mind. I don’t think that needs any further explanation. The second thing that’s a little bit more unique to my experience, so I mentioned my first job after I graduated from the Air Force Academy was as a launch vehicle engineer. And so I went into that role. I had an engineering degree, but did they teach me everything that I needed to know to do the job? Absolutely not.

And so very quickly, you know, I went in and I was managing people that knew way more about what they were doing than I did. And I quickly learned that I needed to trust the subject matter experts. That doesn’t mean that I don’t get involved and ask questions, one, to know more about what they’re doing, but two, [00:05:00] to be able to challenge. What they’re doing and, and just by asking questions, trying to understand, a lot of times they would realize that, hey, maybe there’s a gap here. Maybe we need to close that gap somehow.

So those are kind of the two things that I really lean on from my military experience into the corporate world.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I, I think that last thing that you were just talking about. You know, recognizing, recognizing that you probably don’t know everything about everything that you might be working on. And, and that’s okay. That’s why there’s a team of people working on this because they’re all bringing different experiences and backgrounds and yeah, sure.

You have your degree so you, you’re, you’re well educated in a particular topic. But and, and, kind of using generic terms here. I know you were in engineering, but I think this probably applies to just about any field you might go into because you, you can get your degree, but it’s not gonna make you the.

The foremost expert in whatever the field is that takes time and experience and mistakes quite frankly [00:06:00] to that, that you should make to, in order to learn what not to do or what to to do and you know how to do things you know, even better. So, when you have a team of people who have.

Several years of experience that you don’t have. Yeah, likely they’re going to have some answers that you don’t have. And and when you ask those questions, of course you’re gonna learn something from those people because they’re gonna explain something to you that maybe you just didn’t know. But you know, additionally, you’re, you’re also you’re also challenging their thought process too, like you said.

And. Maybe there’s something that they just have always done. It’s kind of like the you know, it is just the way things have always been done. The, the way, you know, business has always, always been done and, you if you’re not challenging that you might just be doing the same thing over and over again, not really realizing that maybe you didn’t need to do that, or maybe there’s a better way to do that.

And, and it, it’s helpful to have an, almost an outside perspective looking into kind of challenge some of those [00:07:00] things. That that’s why a lot of times you know. Teams will, will get together and they’ll have a cross-functional team where, where you might get people from you know, AC accounting or finance, working with the engineers and they’re asking the stupid questions because they don’t know the answer.

And then. Then it kind of helps to generate different ideas and, and things like that. And so, so it, it’s, that’s a, a I think those are good lessons to take away. You know, may, maybe not everybody’s military experience will have those same lessons necessarily, but you know, you’ll definitely have certain things that you can take away.

And it, and I liked how you, you said, you know, it wasn’t that you got this award or you went to that school, or you did this or that. It, it, it was more like the, the. Hands-on experiences that you had, right?

Stephen Bump: Yeah, for sure.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. So I know a lot of times veterans, when they’re leaving the military they’re facing a lot of challenges transitioning into civilian life and, and.

[00:08:00] I know you said that you kind of were, were set up into to this job. Were there any kind of unique challenges that you, you faced when you went into your first job outside of the, the military or and, and, you know, how do you how do you see kind of helping other veterans in that transition phase?

Stephen Bump: Challenges, yes, but I will say that my military experience is not, well. I know everybody kind of has a different experience in the military, and I think that amongst civilians, there’s probably. Kind of a, a thought of what military experience is. My military experience was actually not that much different than what a lot of folks on the civilian side would see. In fact, in my last assignment in the Air Force Research Lab, most of the people I worked with were civilians or contractors. They weren’t wearing a uniform. So there weren’t a lot of us who were wearing a uniform, so my transition actually was, was pretty seamless in that regard. Like it wasn’t the drastic change.

Of course, there was a change where I, you know, I went from aerospace defense [00:09:00] to pharmaceuticals, but again, I was just moving to a different field where I didn’t know everything, but I was surrounded by subject matter experts that I could lean on. And so that was actually very transferrable. One of the, one of the challenges, I mean, I’ll be very transparent for me personally, was that I had spent several years in the military kind of building up my reputation and kind of building up who I was, and then all of a sudden I went to a whole new industry and I was like starting over again.

And so that was kind of hard for me personally.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I could see how that, that could be an issue too, because like you said, you, you. Build a reputation. You, you put in a lot of work and then you go into another field and nobody knows who you are and you gotta pretty much start from scratch and, and rebuild that reputation and trust and all the things that, that go along with it that you know, it’s not the easiest thing to do.

And, and it takes time. And so when you were in the military, you had that already that, that. Base that was kind of [00:10:00] built up. And then you get out and it’s pretty much gone and, and wiped out in, in an instant almost. Right. And so, you know, when you, when you are you know, starting an, anything new, I suppose that that’s something to, to keep in mind for, you know, especially for the listeners you know, as you’re transitioning out.

Maybe you’re going into a different career field, you know, just because you did something in the military doesn’t mean necessarily that you have to do the same thing in the, in the civilian side. But, you know, keep that in mind that you know, a lot of that reputation and that that hard work, that that goodwill or whatever that you might have built up may not be there.

When, when you go out, it may not be there anyways because you’re working with different people and, and maybe it’s just. You know, they don’t, they don’t know who you were or, or what you are capable of. And so you’re gonna have to maybe build that up anyways. But that, I think these are, are good things that, that you’re bringing up here for folks to, to keep in mind and consider in that transition period because like, I don’t know, I, I don’t think I would’ve [00:11:00] thought of those things necessarily.

If I’m sitting there, you know, six months out from, from my retirement or, you know, getting out of the military. I, I don’t know that I would really be thinking of, of that kind of stuff. ’cause I’m, I have so many other things on my mind as far as, you know, where am I gonna work? What am I gonna do?

Where am I gonna live? All these things are, are running through my mind. And so, you know, things like that are, are important but may not necessarily be on top of mind. So, so that’s a good, a good thing. Yeah.

Stephen Bump: And for me it was you know, I thought that there was gonna be more, I, I don’t know if respect is the right word, because I do feel like I was respected, but quite frankly, nobody cared what I did

before. I mean, they appreciated my service and I think they were genuine about that. But ultimately they weren’t asking me like, Hey, we’re facing this challenge in the workplace.

What can you take from your background that applies to this? You know, they

weren’t asking those questions. So it, in a lot of ways it was starting over again.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, I think for the most part, when, when people are getting out you know, everyone’s situation’s going to be [00:12:00] different obviously, but I, I think for the most part, yeah, the people are gonna be appreciative of your service. But they don’t care what medals or awards you, you won or, you know, anything like that, that they don’t, they don’t care about the, any of that kind of stuff.

They don’t, they don’t care about the military accolades or any, any of those kind of things. They, they care, can you get the job done? Can you do what we’re hiring you to do? In any field, doesn’t matter, you know, engineering or, you know, whatever field it may be. Can you do the job? And you know, yeah, sure.

You might bring some perspectives to the table that they may not necessarily ask about, but you can use those to your advantage and and, and help you do your job perhaps better than some of your, your your coworkers can because you have certain experiences. But, to just rely on that military experience as like, well, this is, this is, everything about me is all military all the time.

Most people are kind of just don’t, they don’t care, I [00:13:00] guess is a good way that you put it, not, not that they’re not appreciative, but that’s not important in, in the workplace.

Stephen Bump: And I, I think the longer you’re in the military, the harder that’s gonna be.

Because if you transition, like for me my, my 12 years included four years at the Air Force Academy. So I was still 12 years away from retirement, and so I didn’t have near as much. I think a lot of guys who are retiring from the military where they have a lot more experience in the military, then they’re kind of expecting a lot more of that respect and a lot more of that. And so I think it’s even harder, like I see some guys who are transitioning after retirement, after a 20 year career,

20 plus year career, and I see them struggle with that even more than I did.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. And getting a, a job that’s at the same level as what you were in, in, in the military. You know, if you’re, you know, a colonel or something like that, you’re expecting that same kinda level of responsibility in the, the civilian world. And maybe you’re not going to get that same exact level. You might, but you, you might not, depending on, on the [00:14:00] career field that you’re going into.

You might have to start a few notches down on, on the,

Stephen Bump: you might get back there. Back

there. Yeah. Yeah. But you might have to be willing to take a step or two back. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Right, exactly. And I’m not saying you have to start from the ground floor necessarily but you may not be at that same place right away. And, and yeah, sure. With, with a little bit of time. You, you can probably get back up there. But but again, you have to be open to that and, and open to, to taking some, some time to, to grow in that, that civilian career. And, and that you know, one thing I think the civilians who are, who, you know, never served in the military what they bring to the table is that they don’t have to undo the military brainwashing for, for lack of a better term, right. They don’t have to undo any of that stuff ’cause they’ve always been in the civilian workforce.

And so, so. They, they have kind of a little bit of a step up in that regard. But that’s not the worst thing in the world to have to undo some of that. And, and some of it’s good to not undo, you know, stuff like, [00:15:00] you know, being on time and, and having the right materials and, and, you know, all those just little things that we kind of take for granted.

Sometimes you, you start working with civilians, you realize that that actually does set you apart, you know?

Stephen Bump: Yep, for sure.

Scott DeLuzio: so. Work life balance. You know, I know you were in the Air Force for, you know, a period of time and then then switching out into the, the corporate world and then, you know, now, now for yourself.

How was that for you were, were you able to kind of maintain a similar level of you know, kind of work life balance or, or how did that, that work for you?

Stephen Bump: So it’s an interesting question. When I transitioned out of the Air Force, I wanted to go all in on my next career. And so I actually intentionally did not join the reserves. And in hindsight, I actually regret that. I, I wish I would’ve done the reserve thing and, and started my corporate career. I think I could have handled both just fine. I [00:16:00] don’t think it, I don’t think a reserve role would’ve negatively impacted my career. It’s kind of a side note, but one thing that I did when I went to the corporate world, and again, I went to work for Eli Lilly, is I went all in and I wanted to give it my all.

I wanted to make a good first impression. I quickly found myself on, on projects where I was traveling gold globally. It’s kind of funny, I joke with people that a lot of people join the military to see the world. And I saw the western half of the us but then I went to Eli Lilly and within a few months and spent all this time in Europe. I, I very quickly started seeing a lot more of the world outside of the military. But that was just my experience. But I think I put a little bit too much emphasis on and too much focus on my career, and I think it negatively impacted, I, I mean. My personal life was, was fine. Like I didn’t have any, like, tragedies or anything like that, but in hindsight, I [00:17:00] would’ve prioritized my family more than I did. And I don’t think that that would’ve been a huge detriment to my career. In fact, it probably would’ve been, probably wouldn’t have negatively impacted it at all because I would’ve, you know, I, as an example. When I got out of the military, I, I always said that I would stay fit and I stayed reasonably fit, but I mean, not as fit as I was in the military.

And it wasn’t until within recent years when I launched my own company where I said, I’m gonna prioritize health and wellness and fitness. That I’d say like, I’m now back at a place that I was when I was in the military. But I kinda let that stuff fly when I first got out. So that was a challenge for me.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I know from my experience getting out of the the military, I, I definitely let that slide and I, I did not pay attention to my, my physical health. At all. Like, it was just like, I’m out, took the uniform off. I don’t care anymore. I’m not, I’m not doing exercise, I’m not doing any of this stuff. [00:18:00] And then when I, I realized like, hey, this is starting to catch up to me.

And I, I started getting back into it and I, I started doing you know, some, getting back into more exercising. I really felt the difference. I was like, man, I, I. I feel like I’m gonna die after, you know, running a mile or, or something. And it, it, like, that was just like a big eye-opener. ’cause I used to be able to run for miles and miles and, you know, be able to pick up and go again.

And, and it really wasn’t a, a big issue for me. You know, even, even lifting weights or, or anything like that. I, I was nowhere near what I used to be. And you know, even still, I’m, I’m still working to, to get back to, you know, kind of where, where I was. But you know, if I even ever get back there you know, because.

Time goes on, you get older and things, things are not as easy to to do as, as when you were, you know, maybe in your, your twenties or so. You know, us, us old guys have a little bit, little bit harder as time goes on, right?

Stephen Bump: For me, the wake up call is pushups. So I I went to a gym a few years ago and was doing some pushups and I was like, why are they [00:19:00] so hard? Shouldn’t be hard.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. And especially with the, the number of pushups that we probably have all collectively, we’ve all done in, in the military you know, it should just be like muscle memory at that point, and, and you should just be able to knock some out. But, but yeah, you, you don’t do it. You eventually start losing you know, that those muscles and, and the.

Y you’re gonna get, have to do some work to, to get that back, you know? But.

Stephen Bump: One, one thing I do wanna point out back to your earlier question about kind of integrating work and life and trying to find that balance. So I didn’t mention this earlier, but I’ve been married for 17 years. I got two kids. They’re 11 and 14 now. They were both born when I was still active duty in the Air Force. So when I launched my civilian career, I had a three month old and a 3-year-old. My wife went back to school to become a nurse practitioner, so we were juggling a lot.

So I will say that like that was still family was very important to me and I, I, I think I did a, [00:20:00] a pretty good job of prioritizing that. However, my personal fitness and my health, I, I let that slide a little bit.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And. One, one of the nice things that I found with having your own business is that you, you’re the boss. You get to make the hours, you get to make the decision of how much or how, how little you want to work. And you can devote as little or as much time to outside. Of work type things such as family time, which is definitely important.

You know, if you, if you do have a family, if, if you don’t have a family then you know, there might be other you know, things that you might want to devote some time to. But you know, being the boss, you get to make those decisions. And, you know, you get to choose the, the clients that you work with and, and the types of projects that you take.

Hey, that’s not gonna fit my lifestyle. I, if I, if I do this type of project, so I’m not, I’m just gonna pass on that one. Is, is something that you might be able to do, whereas if you’re working for somebody else. You kinda have to do what the boss tells you to do, otherwise you may not have a job for, [00:21:00] for very much longer.

So, you know, that’s one of the nice things about entrepreneurship is, is that flexibility that, that you get you know, again, may not be the best. Business decision to pass on a particular project. But if that just doesn’t fit with your lifestyle or, or the, the type of stuff that you want to do, that’s your choice.

And you get to make those decisions without having somebody else breathing down your neck and making sure that you’re, you’re doing the, the tasks that are assigned to you. Right?

Stephen Bump: Yeah, and that’s, so I kind of knew when I went off on my own, I kind of knew that I would, I recognized that I would have more time freedom.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Stephen Bump: Which also comes with more responsibility. But, you know, I was able to pick up my kids from school almost every day. I, I could make those decisions for myself.

I could decide when I wanted to take vacation and how long when I do that, I don’t get paid. So there’s,

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Stephen Bump: there’s pros and cons, but you can make that decision for yourself. What I didn’t realize is the point that you just made about, [00:22:00] you can decide what. Projects and engagements to take. And that to me has been huge where, yeah, if you’re working for somebody else and they tell you, here’s your new project, they just keep dumping more and more on you and you don’t have a choice as a, now that you know, I run a contract firm where we do contract work for pharmaceutical clients. We can choose what engagements we want to take, and I don’t think they recognize that. We’re actually we have an engagement right now that’s kind of challenging and we’re realizing that the values of us as a company maybe aren’t in complete alignment with this particular client. And we’re actually contemplating pulling back from that engagement and saying, sorry, I don’t think we’re the right fit here.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Stephen Bump: if we were to do that, if we go down that path, they’re gonna be, wait, what? You could do that. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can. Like we could, we could actually choose, like we’re not, I think there’s kind of a perception that a lot [00:23:00] of small companies like mine are just taking whatever they can get,

and that is not necessarily the case.

Like you can pick and choose the engagements that align with your values and make the most sense for you.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I know when I, I started a business years ago and when I first started I would take any project that came my way. I, I take, and, and you know, this was in the, the beginning phases. I didn’t have a lot of customers. I, I was, I was, you know, starting to question my decision of starting my own business and, you know, the, the bank account was starting to question that decision for me.

And you know, so I was taking every project that, that came my way. And, you know, in the beginning that was probably the right move because, well, there were bills to pay and I, I needed. I did need the, that money. But as time went on and the business started to grow and got a little more stable and, and stuff like that that’s when I started to realize that I don’t have to take every single project that comes my way.

There there’s gonna be some that either I know this person’s gonna be a pain in the ass to work with and it’s. I don’t care what the [00:24:00] dollar amount is that that’s on this, it’s just not gonna be worth it, you know, for, for my sanity or for, for whatever. Or you know, may maybe it’s you know, like you said, like maybe values aren’t aligned or, or whatever, and maybe that’s not the right thing to do.

And, and so you, you can kind of just start to pick and choose the, the clients that you work on, and I think you’ll. You know, a lot of businesses will probably be better off for being picky that way. Because if you’re working for a client that’s sucking. The life out of you, you’re not gonna wanna keep doing that type of work over and over again.

And, you know, you might actually start to back away from the business altogether. And, and that’s not the, the way you want your a, a business to be run. So you want to, you want, I’m not saying everything has to be fun and, and, you know, rainbows and unicorns, but you gotta you gotta make. The work to you anyways feel, feel meaningful, and you know, hopefully for, you know, any employees that you have or, or people that are, are working for you, they feel the same [00:25:00] way.

And if not, then you know, maybe that that means that the team needs to be adjusted or, or whatever. And, and so that way you have the people who are in alignment with, with those same values and, and stuff too, right?

Stephen Bump: Yep.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, so, so I think like, kind of a big thing is, is making sure that the, the work that you do is there, there’s a sense of purpose and, and meaning behind that, that work too.

It’s not just working for the paycheck because I mean, you can get a job and work for a paycheck, you know, pretty much anywhere. And the money’s gonna be the same. Same money as it would be anywhere. So there’s looking for that new sense of purpose, sense of meaning you know, from the work that you do is, is important too because especially coming from the military community where, you know, the work that you did in the military did have a, a big purpose and a big sense of meaning behind it.

Now you go out into the civilian world and if you’re just. You know, crunching numbers at a desk somewhere, maybe you don’t feel the same sense of purpose or, or meaning that, that you might have [00:26:00] felt, you know, from, from the, the military side. Right?

Stephen Bump: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So for veterans who are. Maybe seeking a career path who, that that will align maybe more with their values or the, the things that that they believe in, that they want, that they’re looking for.

Maybe it’s, maybe it’s that work-life balance. Maybe it’s you know, something that they’re, they’re doing. You know, what, what advice do you have for, for those veterans who are seeking those types of career paths that, that align with those values and, and provide that sense of fulfillment to them?

Stephen Bump: it’s tricky. And the reason I think it’s tricky is because. In, in the military, you’re kind of told what your next step is gonna be and you

kind of follow a predetermined, I mean, you have a little bit of control over where you go, but certainly not as much as you have on the outside. When you enter a civilian career, the options are unlimited, which is really overwhelming. So then how do you narrow [00:27:00] down those options? Something that I did was I started listening to the people who I respect. And getting advice from them, which I’m not saying that’s the wrong thing to do, but in my case then I started trying to have a career that was defined by somebody else, not by me. And it wasn’t at the until I started my own gig four years ago that I finally feel like I broke free from that. I had some some people in my life that I really respect that they told me I was making a mistake. And they urged me to, to not go down that entrepreneurial path. They said, you know, go find the biggest, most respected company you can work for and work for that company for your entire career until you earn a pension, if that even exists, wherever you’re at. That, that was their advice, and I really respected that and I realized that I was following that advice, even though that wasn’t me.

That wasn’t. It wasn’t what I was passionate about and I was [00:28:00] burning out. And so when I went and, and started my own company initially, I, I didn’t know where I was going with that.

Was I just going to be self-employed? Was I going to grow this into something bigger? I didn’t know, but. It didn’t matter at the time. I was just taking the next step and I knew it was the right next step. And I said, I’m gonna take that step and then I’m gonna reevaluate in a couple of years and then take the next right step. So what’s the, the next right step for my future? I’m not gonna pretend like I know a hundred percent. I have a general idea of where I’m headed,

but do I know the exact step that I’m gonna take every, every step of the way? No. And even when I did my MBA program, I remember when I was interviewing for it, you know, they asked, why do you want to do this program? And you have some canned answer where it makes perfect sense exactly why you need an MBA for your career. But I remember as I gave that answer and I was thinking to myself, this, this is the answer, right? That I think they want to [00:29:00] hear from me. It’s not from the heart.

And the reality was that I was pursuing an MBA because I wanted to learn something new.

I wanted to, but, but that’s not, that’s not the answer that they want to hear. And I also knew that it was gonna open doors in the future. I didn’t know what those doors were gonna be, but I knew that there would be opportunities in the future that would come about because of the, so, yeah, I think just finding out for yourself, like map your own career, map your own, what’s important to you, what’s important to your family. Stop trying to do what you think other people want you to do.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I think that the advice that you are getting from those other people, I don’t think that there was anything necessarily wrong with that advice. It, it just, in general terms, it was likely a very safe, option, right? Go going to work for a corporation, that you’re gonna have some job security there and you’re gonna have you know, good benefits and, and a regular [00:30:00] paycheck coming in.

And you’re not gonna have to worry about finding work or anything like that. It’s, you’re just gonna go and do your job and you know. That may not be the thing that’s fulfilling to you. And, and sure, yeah, it might be a safer option as far as financial security and, and all the benefits and, and things like that that come along with that job, but.

That doesn’t align with you and your values and what it is that you’re looking for for your career and the fulfillment that, that you’re getting out of it, then, then you’re right then that’s not the right way to, to go. Not, not to say that it’s not the right way for somebody else, but maybe just in your circumstance it’s not the right way.

And so, so I think for the listeners who. Are, you know, maybe questioning like, what, what’s our next move? What, what, what’s the next thing that we’re gonna do in our career? You know, really ask yourself, like, where, where do you see yourself in, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 years? You know, do you, do you see yourself doing the same thing over, you know, every year? [00:31:00]

Want to have a little bit of flexibility to be able to kind of. Shift things a little bit and, and so you might, you might want to kind of just do a little dive into that, that know, what it is that you’re, you’re looking for you know, and,

Stephen Bump: I, and I think there’s also a, a lot of folks have they wanna find the perfect job.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah.

Stephen Bump: And if you don’t know what the perfect job is, it’s really hard to find the perfect job. And even if you do know exactly what you want, actually finding it, it’s like a unicorn.

And so the other thing that was kind of an aha moment for me when I went. Actually, when I left Lilly and went and worked for a small company, I was treating it like an experiment.

I, I wanted to learn something. I’d never worked for a small company before. I’d worked for the Air Force and I’d worked for Lilly, a big, a giant organization, and a big organization. So, and then all of a sudden I found myself working for, I think there were seven of us when I [00:32:00] started there. And so I wanted to see what it was like working for a small company, and I learned a lot both good and bad. I learned that, the culture at a big company, it’s probably not gonna be drastically different from one big company to another,

but from one small company to another, culture is huge. Like the culture at the company I went to, they had their own culture, their own identity. And that, that culture can very quickly kind of evolve as you hire people and grow. Whereas at a big company it’s kind of established, it’s kind of set, it’s kind of boring. But so. I treated that when I went to that, took that opportunity. I, I knew I wasn’t, maybe I would stay there for a long time. I was treating it more as an experiment and I changed, I was doing a very similar thing to what I was doing previously, but now, instead of at a big company, I’m doing it for a small company. So I changed one variable, ran that experiment, and then I think you and I share a common background in, in Lean and Six Sigma.[00:33:00]

And so we talk about PDCA plan, do check, act. So I made a plan, executed on that plan, and then I checked after a year. Okay, what have I learned being at this small company? Now, how do I want that to change my career? And that’s at that point when I knew I wanted to start my own Go Independence.

’cause I learned something. And then when I went independent, I did the same thing again. Let’s, let’s run this experiment again, doing similar work. But now instead of working for a small company, I’m working for myself. What did I learn? I, I learned it was awesome. I’m the best boss I’ve ever had. But no joking aside, I mean, it was, it was, it was great.

But then after a couple years of that, okay, what have I learned? And I learned that, okay, yes, I do like, working for myself, but I’ve been doing the same thing for very similar things in the day to day for a long time. I want to challenge myself and do something different, and that’s why I decided to scale my company do something different but continue to work for myself because [00:34:00] I, I learned that I like that.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and that’s, I think, an important revelation to, to come across. And, and you wouldn’t have realized that had you not tried it and, and then kind of evaluated, like you said. Evaluated after the fact. Okay, how do I, how is this better or worse? Or how, how is this compare to other things that I’ve done?

Is this what I want to continue doing? And, and then kind of adjust from there. And, and I’m, I’m sure you recognize when you started your business you know, I think anyone who, who starts a business and it’s just them kind of running the, the whole show you’re doing. A hell of a lot more than just whatever the, the job is that people are hiring you for.

You know, you’re doing the marketing and the, and the, the, the sales and all the, the things that come along with it at first because, you know, may, you know, a lot of times there’s a you know, a, a tight budget and, and so you’re, you’re kind of. Juggling a lot of different things, wearing a lot of different hats all at the same time.

But in order [00:35:00] to, to scale and to grow, like you’re, you’re talking about you, you probably realized I, I can’t do all of the things. And just like you were talking about earlier with your, your first job you know, in the Air Force where you didn’t know every single thing. That was going on, and you weren’t the subject matter expert on every single thing.

And so you relied on those subject matter experts to do those things. And so in order to, to grow, you probably have to reach out and, and get the, the assistance from those people who do know how to do some of those other general business functions where, where they add value to, to the business, doing those things.

You add value, doing something else, right.

Stephen Bump: And it’s never been easier to do that with ai.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Stephen Bump: I mean, I, I always have chat GPT open in one window on whatever computer I’m working on and. You know, I didn’t, when I started my company three years ago, chat, GPTI forget exactly when it came out, but I wasn’t using it then. And so it was hard at [00:36:00] first to like, I don’t. Like, there’s nobody around to like, how do I do these things? You gotta figure it out for yourself. Now with AI and chat GPT or whatever AI platform you use, it’s never been easier. Just go have a conversation with it

and and it’ll point you in the right direction or at least nudge you in the right direction.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah. And I, from my experience, it’s, it’s not always a hundred percent, you know, the right solution that, that it comes up with, but but it maybe gives you some ideas that you hadn’t considered before and helps, like you said, nudge you in the right direction and. You know, get, get the, the ball rolling at least for, for whatever it is that you’re trying to do.

And, and those types of things are invaluable because. On your own. You, it might, you might be sitting there for months trying to think of the same problem, trying to come up with a solution. Whereas you might throw it into chat, GPT or some other, you know, AI tool. And it gives you, gives you at least a, you know, a plan may, [00:37:00] maybe not the full solution, but it gives you a plan in just a matter of minutes.

And, and you’re, you’re good to go and, and you can now start executing that plan and, and get, get, at least get the ball rolling right.

Stephen Bump: Yeah, for sure. It’s awesome.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, it is. I, I kind of, I kind of geek out with, with that, that stuff sometimes. And I don’t want to go too far down that rabbit hole ’cause I, I have a feeling that the listeners have other things in mind that they’re, they’re looking for here.

But so tell, tell us a little bit about some of the resources or maybe some of the strategies that were the most valuable to you during your own transition from the military to civilian.

Stephen Bump: Let me start with a strategy that was of no value to me at all, and that was just going out to job boards and posting.

I I kind of had been advised that that wasn’t a, a good strategy, but I still did it. And I think part of that’s just the anxiety around not knowing what you’re gonna do and to kind of. Decrease that anxiety a little bit. It it feels like you’re doing something. So, I mean, I don’t know how many [00:38:00] jobs I applied to and never heard back from any of them. So what, you asked what, what did work well, so what did work well? I used a, a, a headhunting firm called Cameron Brooks. Um. I’m sure many of your listeners are familiar with them.

They work strictly with junior military officers who are transitioning out of the military. And that was actually how I found the opportunity at Eli Lilly. It was, it was interesting. I went to a career conference and it’s not a job fair per se, because you go in and you’ve kind of shared with Cameron Brooks what it is you’re looking for. You’ve kind of narrowed down regions of the country that you’re willing to live in or kind of what you’re identifying, like what’s important to you. And so then based on that, they kind of play matchmaker and they set you up with interviews for, for roles that are actually like, they need somebody now. So it’s not just going out into the some job board and hoping that. Something sticks. So I had, over the course of two days, I think it was 12 job interviews. My [00:39:00] first one was actually with Eli Lilly and, which is where I ended up. But it was interesting ’cause I went into that and I thought to myself, this will be a good warmup interview.

I, I wasn’t really interested in it. And then I left that interview as, I think it was a 45 minute interview, and then you just have back to back interviews. And so a crazy experience where like. In an interview setting, you have to kind of put yourself in that role mentally

and then, and then, you know, you walk out of that room and you walk to the next interview and all of a sudden you’re, you’re now working for Foster Farms and interviewing for rollout foster farms in a completely different area of the country.

And why are you excited about that? But anyways, it was a fantastic experience, one, just to kind of figure out what it was that I wanted to do. And I would never have even gone to Eli Lilly’s website and applied for a job there. Like, I didn’t even, I wouldn’t even know to look at, look into that as an opportunity, but it quickly rose to the top of my priority list and I, I received [00:40:00] multiple job offers and the one going into the conference that I thought I wanted the most, I actually got an offer from them and I turned it down and took the, the offer at Eli Lilly. It was because it aligned with my, my values and what it was that I was looking for. It aligned most with that. So that was a huge resource for me. Cameron Brooks. The other one that I used was actually through Syracuse University. I’m forgetting exactly what it’s called. I think it’s the Institute for Veterans and Military Families, but it’s a free resource for military and veterans and I think spouses. But I used them to get my PMP, my project management professional certification. I actually did that a couple years, I think it was three years after I transitioned. But that was very helpful in, in getting my PMP. They, they paid for the training as well as sitting for the exam. And taking the exam. So that was a great resource. And then of course, I, I, hopefully everybody knows and is using [00:41:00] this, but the GI Bill, i, I used the GI bill to get my MBA and so I actually got paid a little bit to, to go to school because I got the, the housing allowance. So huge opportunity and that, that degree I think at the time was like $175,000 degree program and it was all covered. So huge resource. If you’re not looking into that, taking advantage of that, then you’re missing out.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that, that’s insanely helpful when, when you’re trying to, you know, maybe, maybe get into a new career field or, or try something different or even just, you know, maybe you don’t have a degree at all and, and you’re, you’re trying to get into you know, something that does require a degree you know, having the, the GI Bill as a resource available to you.

It is. Really helpful ’cause of what you just mentioned there. You know, something that would’ve cost you nearly $200,000 was all covered. And you know, plus some you know, housing ex expenses were, were covered as well through, through all of that. So it’s, it’s like that, there’s a lot of [00:42:00] financial incentive there to utilize that.

And, and it’s available to you. It’s not like you were, taking from somebody else who, who might have been able to use it. You know, so it, it’s just like one of those benefits that are, are just there for you and if you don’t use it, that that’s on you. But if, if you if you do use it, it’s not like you’re, you’re taking something away from somebody else who, who might need it more or, or something like that.

What, whatever we tell ourselves when we, when we don’t use these

Stephen Bump: You earned it.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you earned it just, just as much as anybody else did. And so, you know, why not use it if, if you have it and, and if you need it, you know, and, and some people might be like, you know what, I, I wanna go into a field that doesn’t require any kind of degree or, you know, anything like that.

And okay, fine. Then you know that that might be something that you don. You choose not to use. But you know, I’m not saying that everybody has to use it if they, if they if they have it available to them. But I, I know even in those kind of cases there are some [00:43:00] circumstances where you can kind of transfer some of those benefits to other family members, like, like children and stuff like that too.

So, you know, in those cases maybe, maybe that’s what you wanna do, but but if you have it available to you, you know, might as well use it right.

Stephen Bump: Yeah, and I think the real benefit there, I mean, there’s the obvious on the surface, like you’re not paying the tuition,

but what does that really mean? Well, it means that, I mean, you could take student loans and you could go that path, but what that means is then after you graduate, you’re gonna feel pressured to take the job that pays the most so that you can pay back your student loans, and maybe you’re not taking the opportunity that aligns with your values.

So you’re now burdened by that student debt, so you can potentially completely avoid that by using the GI bill.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Agreed. I, I think any, anything that will help you kind of move in the direction that gets you closer to what it is that you actually want to be doing, you know, in, in the future [00:44:00] is, is. The path that you need to go as opposed to like what you just said. Yeah, you might end up taking that job that pays more and maybe has you know, better, better benefits and, and pay and that, that type of thing, but isn’t necessarily where you want to be, and that’s just delaying you from getting to the place where you ultimately want to be.

And so, so that may not be the best. Long term move for you if, if you delay that you may, you may wanna get into what it is that you want to do a little bit quicker, right?

Stephen Bump: Yeah.

Yep, for sure.

Scott DeLuzio: So as far as far as your company now that you have prosperity you know, as that company is growing what future goals do you have for, for your company in terms of you know, kinda.

Adding new, new folks to the team or, you know, kind of helping out in, in that, that type of way, or, you know, how, how do you see that the next step going? I know you said you don’t have everything planned out necessarily, but you know, how, what, what do you see the future looking like for you?

Stephen Bump: So, when I [00:45:00] decided to scale a year ago my goal was by the end of 2025 to have six people. I’m at five people right now, so I’m on, I’m on track and I think I’m probably gonna exceed six people by the end of this year, which is awesome. And then continue to scale from there. 12 people by the end of the next year and, and so on.

So I hope within five years to be about 50

people. That’s just from a headcount perspective though. So another thing that’s important to me is right now the consulting work that we do is within the life sciences industry and specifically within manufacturing. medical device pharmaceutical manufacturing, helping our, our clients to scale up their manufacturing capabilities. I would like to scale beyond, like find additional clients within that industry. And then shortly on the heels of that, I would like to expand into other industries. Right now I’m not even marketing to other industries. ’cause I’m not there yet, but I. In my [00:46:00] mind, this is highly regulated industry.

So, you know, I have my, I started my career working in aerospace. That’s another highly regulated

industry. So I think that would be a natural next step after life sciences aerospace. But then the other thing that’s really important to me is you know, I’ve kind of touched on this concept of service throughout this interview. And you know, that kind of goes back to my military service. But then, you know, one of the major reasons why I went into life sciences was my wife was a nurse. She would come home from the hospital talking about these, telling me these stories of massive impact that she was making in healthcare. And so it was kind of, I had this aha moment where I could take my engineering background, pair that with healthcare, and you get pharmaceutical manufacturing. Do I love everything about big pharma? No. But do I think that the world is a better place because Big Pharma exists? Yes. So. to this whole service [00:47:00] mindset. So that’s kind of what led me into the pharmaceutical. What really drives me right now about growing and scaling my company is I want to bring people in that are very servant hearted.

Servant minded. They want to serve others. I want to serve my employees well so that they in turn serve their families and their communities. Depending on what stage of life they’re in, that could mean very different things. Whether it’s serving in their church, whether that’s serving in their, their family, making dinner for the family, whatever that is. And so it’s very important to me to have flexible workplace environment where, you know, to one person, maybe where they’re at in their life, their stage of life. Maybe in order to do that well, they only work 20 hours a week. Okay, let’s find that opportunity to where you can work 20 hours a week. Maybe it’s working 60 hours a week so that they’re bringing in more income. I think we all go through these different stages of life and where did the, the idea of a 40 hour work week, [00:48:00] why does it have to be 40 hours? You know, like, let’s find something that makes sense for your life so that you can serve others.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

Stephen Bump: The important piece to that though is in order to make all that possible, we have to serve our client well. So that’s kind of a given, like we have to serve the client well so that it enables everything else. And so that’s something that really excites me about growing and scaling prosperity, is I want to bring in servant minded people and then I want to feed into them, serve them so that they can in turn serve their families and serve their communities well. And of course, serve the client well.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. That’s, that’s a such a great thing because you’re, you’re looking at it outside of. The, the four walls, if you will, of your business, and you’re looking at it like, how can the people who are working here, how can they go out and impact their communities, the, the, their neighborhoods, their, their churches or schools?

The, the, the things that are around them that also are [00:49:00] important to them. How can they go out and make an impact? You know, with the time that they have available. So if they’re, you know, if you’re asking them to be working, you know, 80, 90 hours a week, they. May not have a ton of time to go out and volunteer at wherever or, or to help out in, in any way, shape, or form.

Stephen Bump: In that case it’s helping out by giving

of their, giving their money. You know, there’s, there’s many ways that you can serve.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no. Sure. And, and so I, I think that’s, that was kind of where I was getting at with that is that, you know, there’s, there’s different things that you can do. And it, it’s, I think it has to align with that individual’s values. So if, if their, their values are, are more, like services term in terms of like physically doing something, then you’re right.

You know, maybe, maybe 40 hours a week isn’t the right number for you. Maybe it, maybe it’s something less in order to, to be devoting more time to something else. Maybe it’s giving in terms of, you know, financial resources. Okay, then you know, you may need to work [00:50:00] more to make more money in order to do that.

So, so in those cases, and then yeah, you might need to you’ll have those longer hours. Right. But I, I think ultimately. You know, that flexibility is, is important. And so, you know, I I, I think what you’re doing, you’re, you’re going down the right path. I think you, you have a, you know, good thing going for you.

And I think the, the folks who are working for you are, are lucky to be there. And, and they have, they have some good you know, good opportunities probably available for them you know, at, at that company. And I, I think all of this though has been you know, a, a great. Conversation to kind of help some of the listeners kind of frame what those next steps are for them, whether they are in that transition phase right now, about to be, you know, coming up in, in a little bit, or even if they’ve already transitioned out and they, they started working a job and they realized, you know what, this is just not the job for me.

It was, it was the first thing that came along and I just kind of took it and gosh, I, I really wish I spent a little more time trying to figure out what it was that I, I was doing or, or want to do. That [00:51:00] type of thing is, is something that hopefully will, will help the these individuals to find the right you know, career path, the right path for their, their own personal lives and, and also professional lives and, and make sure that they have the right you know, frame of mind going into all of this.

Right.

Stephen Bump: And I think you kind of, you touched on a really good point. It’s not just a transition from the military to the civilian world, like you’re gonna have a series of transitions for the rest of your life.

There’s gonna be, you know, maybe they’ll be not quite as significant as that transition. Yeah, and maybe they will be, but regardless, you gotta embrace the transitions because you’re gonna be facing transitions throughout your entire career, throughout your entire life. Like even, even outside of the workplace. You face transitions at home, as you know, you bring kids into the family, kids grow up, kids leave the home. Like there’s just transitions all the time.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. And the, I guess to your point, that that’s just part of life and you kinda have to [00:52:00] embrace those changes. You know, you get married, you have kids, they, they, like you said, they move out or you know, you might move, move a physical location. You might move out of, out of the house that you, you kids grew up in.

You might move to a, a different house and you know, things like that might just be, a different different change that you have to kind of adjust to and you know, all but that’s all, I guess, just part of life and, you know, kind of roll with the punches and, and go from there. Right. Absolutely.

So, well, Stephen, it, this has been a a, a great conversation. I, I think you know, kind of you sharing some of your experiences I think will be helpful for some of the listeners who are in that, that transition phase or, you know, in some sort of career phase transition. You know, so I, I think, I think we, we touched on a lot of points here.

I’m gonna have some of the links that you mentioned for some of the resources that you mentioned I’ll put some of those links in the show notes for the listeners so that they can check those, those those resources out. But anything else that [00:53:00] you want to add before we wrap this up?

Stephen Bump: No, this has been fantastic.

Thanks. Thanks for having me on the podcast. I’m a big fan of your podcast, so thanks for putting out the show.

Scott DeLuzio: Excellent. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.