Episode 537 Erik Lawrence Tools Veterans Need to Heal Transcript

This transcript is from episode 537 with guest Erik Lawrence.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Getting outta the military doesn’t always mean leaving it all behind. You may still end up with the sleepless nights, the short fuse, the aches that just won’t go away. It can feel like you’re stuck carrying all of this stuff forever. But here’s the thing, there are ways to feel better. You just really need to know where to look and what to do.

[00:00:23] Eric Lawrence, our guest today, has been there and he spent years in special forces. Then dove into contracting, staying busy until his body and mind forced him to figure out a different path. He’s dealt with TBIs toxic exposures, bad habits, and he’s tested just about every approach out there to help address some of the issues that he was having.

[00:00:44] And now he’s sharing what really works. Whether it’s fasting, detoxing, smarter health choices, and why some one size fits all solutions never really help the veterans in the long run. This is the kind of [00:01:00] conversation I think a lot of us wish we had sooner and. He’s written a book with all of this information in it, all the things that he’s tried, whether they worked or didn’t work, and he lets you know all the pros and cons of all these different approaches.

[00:01:13] So, we’ll talk about that book in this episode as well. But before we get started and jump into this episode, I want to take a quick moment to highlight something important to the military community here. The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation is a foundation that’s working to build a permanent.

[00:01:31] Memorial in Washington DC to honor everyone impacted by the global war on terrorism, whether they’re civilian, military, non-military folks who were deployed over overseas. Everyone involved, is who this memorial is going to be there for. This memorial will be. All about remembering the service members, the families, the sacrifices that were made, during this time period.

[00:01:54] So if you’d like to learn a little bit more or see how you can support their mission, head on over to GWOT [00:02:00] memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode. I.

[00:02:04]

[00:02:17] Scott DeLuzio: Hey Eric, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here.

[00:02:22] Erik Lawrence: Hey, appreciate you waiting around for me.

[00:02:25] Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know. This conversation, like we, we were talking before we started recording here. It’s been in the works for, for quite some time and, you know, kind of scheduled it out a, a while ago. But, you know, here we are and you know, looking forward to hearing the, the, a little bit about your story and your background and all that.

[00:02:42] But, but can we start off maybe with just like a, a just a kind of real brief about who you are, your background, military history, all that kinda stuff. Just for the listeners who, who maybe aren’t familiar with you and wanna know a little bit more about you.

[00:02:54] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, I you know, US SF guys, we try not to tell anybody anything, but you know, I [00:03:00] have been, you know, out in industry and, and writing a lot of books, so it’s kind of hard to Hide. I suspect, but, you know, born in West Virginia the minute I could join the army. Joined an SF guard unit so I could sneak in the back door and not have to you know, go through the whole conventional army.

[00:03:17] So, sorry, I skipped all that. And you know, it was a 21-year-old E six, 18 X echo, you know, so it kind of, kind of skipped everything and it really screws you up because people are like. A little young for that. And I’m like, well, you get on a grad, you pass all the stuff, you know, it’s not on me, it’s on the system.

[00:03:39] So, soon as I got tabbed out, I went ahead and joined first group and left the 19th group. The older guys are like, Hey, get outta here. Go do something for a while and then come back. So I did first group for, I don’t know, six years, I guess. You know, Fort Lewis in Okinawa. I was in the sif and you know, a lot of the entertaining stuff, pre-war but just [00:04:00] got bored.

[00:04:00] I’m like, we’re not doing anything, you know, and we weren’t going to, I got out in 98, so I had done 11 or 12 years in sf and I’m like, that’s where guys ev usually hit. It is 12 years. So got out nine 11 happened, obviously joined back up in a, in a government unit, and went over to Afghanistan, Iraq, and Africa and all those glorious places.

[00:04:28] You know, kind of doing the SF thing, but for the government. And then while I was doing that, I was doing actually commercial enterprises too. You know, I had a logistics company, training company, and a security company. So, there’s no mosque growing on my feet.

[00:04:44] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, it seems like you, you kept pretty busy, but how about after, after getting out of. All of that. And, and kind of moving on from there you know, what, what was that situation like for you and, and kind of what, what did you find yourself doing? I know a lot of guys [00:05:00] after leaving military service or government, you know, a lot of times they go into contracting of some sort or, or working for the government in another capacity.

[00:05:09] Sometimes they’re struggling to figure out like, what, what do I do with myself? What’s, what’s the next chapter look like? So what, what was that looking like for you?

[00:05:17] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, back then we didn’t have real great transition processes. You know, they kinda like, you’re out, see you later. I’m like, oh, okay. You know, the VA really didn’t tell you how to do, you know, signups and, and all that. And I, I kind of skipped once again the process and within two weeks of getting out, I was in Sierra Leone, you know, carrying a Mag 58 for the government.

[00:05:41] So I didn’t, it’s non-conventional at best. You know, you go straight into a, a African Civil War and, it’s quite entertaining though. I, I, I enjoyed that experience and the, the guys, you know, a lot of ’em are still out and about kicking. So I mean, in each of those [00:06:00] contract jobs afterwards was pretty much you’re doing the same thing.

[00:06:07] So I don’t think it was a true transition. I think it was a different part of the government and, but it kept you distracted and I think guys jump into some kind of distraction and they don’t wanna let go of the glory days. You know, it’s a, a high school football thing. And I don’t think it’s healthy for guys, you know, but I always harp on guys trying to get out and do something totally different, but we all clinging to it and that’s all I know.

[00:06:37] And you’re like, bullshit. You know, we’re, we’re some of the most capable guys out. You can do anything you want actually. You know, some of my buddies got out and never looked back. You know, they’re very successful businessmen or doctors or lawyers or nurses even. So I think you gotta push outta your comfort zone and a lot of guys don’t.

[00:06:58] They’ll go, well, I just wanna work with the guys [00:07:00] I’ve always worked with and go to wars. And that always ends up in divorce. It always ends up contracting, you know, Groundhog Day. And you get to the same point when you’re like, I gotta do something different. So I try to get guys to do it sooner than later.

[00:07:15] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I, I think the, the trap that we fall into is that, that we’re, we’re comfortable with the chaos with, with the crazy stuff that’s going on in, in the military, in the contracting world or, or whatever world we might find ourselves in. We’re, we’re just used to that craziness. Sit, you know, sitting in a cubicle and working for the next however many years just doesn’t sound all that appealing to a lot of guys who are used to kicking down doors and, and doing all the, all the, the cool military stuff.

[00:07:50] Just, you know, sitting behind a computer doesn’t have that same appeal. And so yeah, you find a lot of guys doing kind of just going back to that same type of thing, but. [00:08:00] Takes its toll on your body, on your mind, on all sorts of things on, you mentioned relationships, marriages, things like that. You know, it’s gonna take its toll on all of those things.

[00:08:09] And so, so yeah, try something new and, and see, see if you can branch out. Right. And, and you’ve, you’ve eventually kind of branched out as well yourself, right? I mean, you’ve, you’ve moved on from there and you’re, you’re, you’re into kind of oth other worlds as well, right?

[00:08:24] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. You know, you, I call it, you know, chapters in the book, you know, and we, we gotta put chapters away and, and start new ones. And I’ve been drug back into the government. You know, because the more you do it, the more people count on you because they already know you can do it competently and, and they don’t have to check your background.

[00:08:45] So I’ve been sucked into an operations position for a real large national issue and I’m like, fuck, whatever, you know, let’s, let’s do it. You know, we have a friendly administration [00:09:00] that’s a get done kind of place because I can’t tolerate. Incompetence and or you know, the chicanery of process. So, yeah, I mean, I’m trying to do a lot on the health side for guys, but that’s all over the place.

[00:09:16] You know. Donors have donor fatigue. A lot of the different foundations, yeah, they do something, but they only do one thing and the guy needs seven.

[00:09:25] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:09:25] Erik Lawrence: And you know, I harp on, you know, we will get into it, I’m sure, but triaging what a guy really needs. Because no two are the same, but you know, if you just do whatever the foundation pays for, it might totally be in the wrong order, and doesn’t help you buy out.

[00:09:41] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that’s definitely something that I, I found with some of the folks that I’ve talked to who have gone to maybe one nonprofit or another, and they have a. Not everyone, but in a lot of cases there’s a a cookie cutter solution where this is what we have to offer and you know, kind of [00:10:00] take it or leave it.

[00:10:00] And that cookie cutter solution might work for some people, but it’s not gonna be necessarily the same thing for everyone. And if you’re so rigid and inflexible, it’s just not going to work for everybody. And so I, I think like to your point. We need to have a different mindset when it comes to helping folks with a wide variety of issues, whether it’s physical health or mental health, or you name it, career transition, whatever.

[00:10:28] There’s not gonna be a one size fits all solution for everybody. And so we need to have a little bit more flexibility, I think with. Some of the strategies that we use to help folks. And, and I, I think, you know, to, to your point, what you’re, you’re talking about now is now helping, helping folks with their their health, their wellness and stuff.

[00:10:49] And, and I’m, I’m sure you, you can probably take some of your experiences from your. Your time in the military to your time later on to be able to [00:11:00] help folks with that too. You, you probably had, had some of those strategies that you, you used from, from your time there. Right.

[00:11:05] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, and that’s where you know a lot I, I’ve read a lot of books, you know, and it’s really to get information outta my head and accessible to other people. Some of the books have sold thousands and tens of thousands. Some of ’em hold, sold a whole 20, you know, but those 20 people really like that one book, you know?

[00:11:23] And with my busy little mind, it’s okay with me. But this, this recent book with the vet Wellness and, and, and Health, I started writing it as a what happened book. ’cause we’ve all got our own little nightmares. You know, you’re not, you know, a lot of TBIs, a lot of. Everything going down in, in the processes we’ve had to go through just to get semi healthy.

[00:11:48] You know, a lot of it I needed a reference book to explain the different modalities and concepts before you’d write a real book. ’cause there’s so much out there and people don’t know what’s [00:12:00] the components. You know, you call up Foundation X and they go, well we do hyperbaric training or hyperbaric therapy.

[00:12:07] Got it. That fixes some things, but I don’t need that, so you gotta find another one. Well, if you don’t even know what to ask for or to look for, you know, which foundation do you talk to? So I wrote this book in a reference book format, so you could educate yourself on all the different modalities and all the different concepts.

[00:12:27] So you could intelligently look for what you need and create a triage type protocol. You know, and that’s when I have a guy that calls me up and needs help. I try to triage what’s the most important thing? Does he need rent paid or does he need immediately put into a program and everything else figured out?

[00:12:46] So,

[00:12:46] Scott DeLuzio: yeah. And, and so that, I think is, is something that we’re, we’re missing here because there are, like you said, so many different modalities, so many different programs out there that are. [00:13:00] Gosh, who, who can keep up with all that stuff and. Then figuring out like, is that even the right thing for me, given the set of circumstances that I, I find myself in?

[00:13:11] And sometimes it may be may, it may be the right thing that you find, like you said, hyperbaric might be a good thing for you. Maybe you have a TBI or something that might be the right thing, but it might not be the right thing for everybody with A TBI. You might need to, you know, try something different first or, or whatever.

[00:13:27] And so having some idea of like, what is the right thing is I, I think a, you know, kind of a. Crucial point before you, you even jump into anything, is just identifying like, what, what is that right thing? So, so let’s, let’s maybe talk about some of that, like some of the, the, the strategies and, and things that you’ve, you’ve kind of come up with some of the mo different modalities that, that are out there that you kind of help.

[00:13:54] Folks with and, and recommend them to use, you know, through, you know, either through your book or whatever you know, [00:14:00] to to get people moving in the, in the right direction. Like what are some of the more common things that you see that, that people are needing help with?

[00:14:06] Erik Lawrence: Well, yeah, and, and a lot of ’em I’ve been through as a Guinea pig whether I needed them or I just wanted to go through it to see what the hell it was about. But that’s why the book expanded into 500 pages because I just kept finding new, new modalities or a new change on it or a new expert that would actually explain it better.

[00:14:26] So I’ve done the whole gambit known to man. You know, I have a lot of TBIs from breaching and you know, a lot of people lumped all that together years ago as PTSD. Well, it’s not, you know, it’s breach your brain. Because your, your brain’s not functioning correctly. Where’s your anger come from?

[00:14:45] Like, well, probably ’cause your brain’s not working, you know? And then if you’re not eating correctly, nutrition has a load to do with all this to keep everything in balance, you know, and working off your blood work. So smart doctors, you know, will, will [00:15:00] do that to a, a very deep level and then you can tell when you’re not doing it right.

[00:15:05] But I’ve had, you know, some really good TBI treatments out of the Aino Clinic in San Francisco. The guys world class does, all the professional athletes, does all the, you know, rich people that fall off their horse kind of concussions and there’s just eight or 10 modalities at that one clinic. To help do that.

[00:15:24] You know, getting our heavy metals out of us. ’cause all the guys have some kind of heavy metal issue and that goes sometimes into the brain tissue, you know? So, that took me almost a year to chelate all of the lead out of me and all the chemicals from shooting our pgs or eating mortar exhaust. None of that’s good for you.

[00:15:44] And look at the burn pit guys. They, they have a nightmare. You know that, that’s an incredible amount of people, but I think you can detox so much of this out of you that that’s what guys have to focus on daily. I, I call it [00:16:00] detox.

[00:16:05] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. And, and to your point there, there are so many things that, like, while when I was in Afghanistan. I never thought really twice about the, the burn pits and the, the crap that we were throwing in there to, to burn. Throwing, you know, plastics and electronic devices and all sort, you, you name it, we’re, we’re putting all sorts of stuff and then dousing it with, with fuel and, and lighting it on fire.

[00:16:30] And it’s like, you don’t even think, and then you’re, you’re smelling all that, you know, the cloud of smoke is, is coming down over, you know, the barracks. You really can’t escape it. And, and so you’re. You’re, you’re stuck. And, and so then now years later, we’re finding out, oh, well that was a, that was not the best thing to be doing.

[00:16:48] And now we now we have all these, these people developing cancers and all sorts of stuff now because of what we’re doing. And, and so yeah, if, if we can, if

[00:16:58] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, there

[00:16:59] Scott DeLuzio: some of that stuff out of [00:17:00] you, because that stuff just sits around, you know? And, and so those are the things that I think you know, people.

[00:17:06] Don’t even realize, you know, just like we didn’t realize that it was a problem back then, we don’t even realize that some of that stuff might still be inside of us, or likely is still inside of

[00:17:16] Erik Lawrence: I guarantee this.

[00:17:17] Scott DeLuzio: and, and b, there’s a way to get rid of it. And, and that’s the thing that I think we need to kind of open up some people’s eyes to and, and let them know that like, you don’t have to be dealing with all these same issues that ev all these other people are dealing with.

[00:17:31] Like, there’s a way to get rid of some of that stuff before it becomes a problem. Right.

[00:17:36] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. Yeah. And I’m no doctor, but I can read, you know, and, and one of the best things you can do daily is an infrared sauna. That, that moves so much stuff ’cause it’s your lymph system. Once your lymph system’s boogered up, you know that’s your sewer system. So if it’s backed up and clogged up, that’s where you’re going to develop a cancer tumor or some kind of, [00:18:00] you can’t fight an illness ’cause your immune system’s down, excuse me, dry here.

[00:18:06] Some of that’s the most important part, you know, and I got guys doing that and they can’t tell until a couple weeks later and they’re like, Hey, this is something’s wrong. I’m like, what? Well, I can think I can remember. I’m like, oh yeah, that’s ‘ cause you’re clearing that out. ’cause think dementia doesn’t happen when you’re seven.

[00:18:23] Right. So it’s, I suspect it’s accumulation of something, you know, some kind of plaque and you know, fasting goes a long way too. I’m wanting some guys to study. ’cause when you get brain damage, if some physical type, you know, there’s dead tissue up there and I’ve got scans showing mine. You know, it looks like a, a hand grenade went off in there.

[00:18:44] But with autophagy, with fasting, your body will eliminate by eating up parts of your body that aren’t working. So I’m wanting to find some really fit guys, you know, CAG level that fast three or four times a month and see, you know, 10 years from now [00:19:00] how they’re doing. ’cause I think you can eliminate it before it becomes long term.

[00:19:05] Same with you.

[00:19:09] Scott DeLuzio: You know that Yeah, that, that’s interesting. I hadn’t really considered the, the, that fasting, like how that works. You know, I, I know some people do it for, you know, like weight loss and those, those kind of things. But but I never really considered it for the way you just described it, because that, that makes a ton of sense.

[00:19:26] Like why, why not? Do that because it, it’ll start attacking those things that, that aren’t working or not necessary to keep around. And let’s, let’s start purging those out of us. And that, that seems to make a, a bunch of sense. And it seems like that’s some, like someone who’s, who’s struggling with some of the things that you just mentioned like what do you got to lose?

[00:19:48] Like that, that’s not gonna, not gonna cost you anything to, to try doing that for a little bit. Right.

[00:19:54] Erik Lawrence: It’s free. It costs you discipline. That’s it. I did a, [00:20:00] a 10 or 11 day in this spring at a at a facility just to see how they did it. And it was pretty lame. You know, that they want people to lay around and do nothing. I’m like, no, we, we kind of work out, you know, we gotta walk, we gotta do things. I.

[00:20:13] Because the body needs help in burning that up because the fat cell stores a lot of these toxins. So if you’re eating up fat cells, that’s eliminating those toxins also. So if you’re already fasting, you might as well maximize it, you know, and, and at the different time periods after three days, you’re not hungry.

[00:20:33] You know, you’ve killed most of the parasites in you that are all bitsy because you’re not eating and giving them carbs and sugar. So once they’ve died off it, it’s, you’re really bored because you have so much more of your day. And some people get lethargy, some people get very active. I get very mentally active after day three.

[00:20:51] I mean, I can write a book or two and it’s

[00:20:53] Scott DeLuzio: And I’m guessing you probably have with with kind of some of the work that you’re doing [00:21:00] right.

[00:21:00] Erik Lawrence: yeah, it’s just the body’s made for that. ’cause think about it, you know, zillions of years ago, if you were hungry, what did you do? Did you lay around? Wait for Uber Eats, or do you go out there and you have to hunt and look and smell and all your senses heightened, you know, you do get energy. You are getting rid of parts of your body, you don’t need for survival.

[00:21:21] So it, it’s truly a no brainer, but people are like, oh, I can’t get past 20 hours. You’re like, drink water, go to bed. You know, you sleep eight hours, knock it out right there. You know, I try to do one day a week. And then like three days a month and then two 10 days or two weeks, once a year. A lot of really high-end clients of mine, they do that regularly and they’re really sharp.

[00:21:47] I mean, they’re very elderly and they’re quite sharp.

[00:21:50] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. That and, and so that, that goes into. Like quality of life type things and longevity [00:22:00] too. Because now, now you’re, you’re improving your overall health. So you’ll, you’ll live longer, but you’ll. It’s not just about the, the quantity of the years, it’s the quality of the years. You’re gonna have better quality years of, of life because you’re, you’re just in, in better shape.

[00:22:14] You know, physically, mentally, all of those things are just gonna start getting better because you don’t ha you’re not carrying around all that. That crap that you, you’re, it’s not doing you any good. It’s not doing you any favors. It’s, as a matter of fact, it’s harming you and, and you’re carrying all that stuff around.

[00:22:31] If you can offload that and, and send it on its way, you’re gonna be a, a hell of a lot better. So, you know, I, I, I think that’s, that’s a thing that, when. We’re just looking at ourselves. It’s like, I think you, you said this before discipline. We, it’s like, you know what, yeah, that sounds great for somebody else to do, but ah, gosh, I don’t know if I really wanna skip all those meals or, you know, do all those kind of things on my own.

[00:22:54] And, and I, I think it’s until someone starts to see what those benefits [00:23:00] are. Because it’s a big unknown at first. Like, I don’t know if that’s actually gonna work for me, so why am I gonna go suffer and, and struggle through those, you know, however many days or whatever of, of, of fasting if I don’t know if it’s actually gonna work for me.

[00:23:14] But once when you start seeing those benefits, then it’s like, well, hell yeah. Why haven’t I been doing this all along, you know?

[00:23:20] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, and it’s not a new idea. I mean, what religion really doesn’t have a period of fasting built into it, you know, 40 days. Some of ’em, you know, I mean, it’s just a no brainer whether some of ’em are intermittent fasting, but some of ’em are legit water fast, you know, and a dry day fast is worth three water days fast.

[00:23:41] So, I mean you, you can really cheat code at some too. And you know, community helps if you have a partner or buddy’s that are gonna do it also. ’cause you can conjole each other into it and then force ’em to stay on it.

[00:23:54] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and distract each other too from, from, you know, when times are, are getting tough [00:24:00] and you’re starting to feel like, ah, just, you know, maybe I’m just gonna give in. have that, that partner there who’s going to keep that accountability high and make sure that you’re not, you’re not. Going off track and, and you continue doing the right thing. So, you know, I, I think all, you know, all of that is helpful and honestly, stuff I haven’t even really thought of or, or considered from, from that perspective of, of how helpful some of those things can be. And, and, you know, I’m hoping some of the listeners are, are listening to this and, and thinking to themselves, you know, what?

[00:24:30] I’ve been dealing with a lot of these issues. I’ve tried so many different things, never tried fasting. You know, maybe I give it a try and, and see what it works. Like, like you said, it’s free. It, it costs you nothing. The, the only thing it’s going to gonna do is just be a little uncomfortable for, for a, a short period of time, and then you’re done and you’re, you start feeling better and. It’s almost like that just delayed gratification. Like let it let it happen and, and you’ll start feeling better down the line. Right.

[00:24:59] Erik Lawrence: [00:25:00] Yeah. And, and that’s, you know, as I said, community can help obviously, but environment also, you know, it’s hard to do when you’re doing business meetings. It’s hard to do with the kids and this and that, but I, I go camping, you know what I bring with me water. So you look around, you’re like, unless you’re doing a good foraging, there’s nothing else.

[00:25:18] You know, you go backpack and, or you grab the RV and only put water in it. You’re kind of boogered, you know, but it’s so worth it and, and.

[00:25:27] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Well, it’s the same idea as as being at being at home, right? When if you have cookies sitting out on the counter, well, as you’re walking by, you’re gonna be naturally inclined to just grab a cookie and eat it, or, you know, chips, or candy or, or any of the other garbage that you don’t, you don’t need to eat, but it’s there and it’s easy.

[00:25:47] It’s convenient. So yeah, why not? Why not grab it? But if you. Put it out of reach, like, like what you’re suggesting. That’s just one less thing that you’re gonna have access to.

[00:25:56] Erik Lawrence: Okay. Yeah, I’m bad about that. You know, if, if [00:26:00] it’s there, you, you’re gonna draw to it, you know? And, and my, my youngest daughter, she gets cranky sometimes. She goes, I’m tired of fruit, I’m tired of meat. I’m like. Sorry, get on. You’re not getting cookies, you’re not getting sugar, you’re not getting ice cream.

[00:26:16] ’cause there’s no benefit to it. You know, it’s like, guys in alcohol, I quit drinking years ago and I wish I’d never drank. What a waste of money. But what a, what a waste of, you know, liver function and brain function. It’s a, it’s a zero win. You know, you, you take a sip of that alcohol, your liver shuts down for like three days to clear that out.

[00:26:36] So it’s just only drink one a day.

[00:26:39] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. And, and it, and the. And, and the, and the waste of time too. You know, like if you think about all the time that, that people spend going out, drinking and all, all

[00:26:51] Erik Lawrence: Well, did it.

[00:26:51] Scott DeLuzio: it’s, I mean, what else could you be doing that that’s, you know, more productive? That could be Ben benefiting something, right?

[00:26:59] [00:27:00] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:01] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, when, when I was in group, I mean, we were the most physically fit alcoholics in the army probably. And I imagine if we do nutrition back then, which we didn’t, you know, we’d pay $3 and 29 cents for lunch at Taco Bell, you know, and then at night you would drink, you know, a 12 pack of Glacier Bay and then go running and I’m like.

[00:27:22] If we’d had one adult that understood nutrition, we would’ve been horses, you know? But, you know, we were studs and we could put up with it. But imagine if you weren’t counteracting your, your PT every day, you know? Just guys now are much smarter.

[00:27:38] Scott DeLuzio: Right, and And how much better you would’ve been.

[00:27:41] Erik Lawrence: Oh, Olympic. Yeah, we’d have been Olympic level. Yeah. Nowadays they have full programs with strength coaches, stretch coaches, everything. I, I went into one of the Thor systems there at, at group, and I sat down and cried. It was better than any NFL gym I saw, [00:28:00] and I’m like, this is the way it should fucking be.

[00:28:03] Because back when I was in group, we had one universal weight set and one set of dumbbells for a battalion of SF guys. It’s like, okay, we’ll do pushups.

[00:28:15] Scott DeLuzio: That’s

[00:28:16] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. It was pathetic.

[00:28:20] Scott DeLuzio: yeah. But, but you know, the equipment’s there, you know, and, and, and thankfully things are turning around and, and we’re, we’re starting to take these things seriously and you know, whether it, physical health, mental health, all of those things are starting to be taken a lot more seriously than they, they were, you know, 20 plus years ago.

[00:28:37] But. I think there’s still, there’s still some work to be done there. And, and part of what you’re, you’re talking about here is, is exactly that, right?

[00:28:45] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. And that’s where, you know, NSF, you know, you’re, you’re not supposed to remember everything, but you’re supposed to remember where the information is. You know, I learned that as a young guy. He goes, I’ve, you know, we, we had to teach this mountain stove one day, and the guy goes, I’ll [00:29:00] teach it, teach it after lunch.

[00:29:01] And I’m like, we’ve never seen that before. He goes, there’s a book. Sit down and read the book at lunch, and we’ll teach it like we own it. And that’s what he did. He read the book at lunch, knows how to instruct, and they thought he invented that stove, you know? And I’m like, huh, you know, I was like 18, you know, I was like a little corporal or something.

[00:29:18] I’m like, huh, noted. You know, so that’s, this is a reference book, 500 pages, me, two years. ’cause I just kept adding to it as I discovered more information, I just had to quit and hit print. So there’s continued updates, which people might not like, but I wanna put the newest info out. But it, it’s written in a way.

[00:29:36] That it’s short snippets, you know, a couple pages per subject, so you don’t have to read the entire book on sleep. You can get the cliff notes of sleep, you know, and how important that is.

[00:29:47] Scott DeLuzio: Right, and I, I, I think when you read the whole book on whatever the topic is, that’s almost like information overload. Sometimes you just need the, the couple pages of just the [00:30:00] highlights of whatever the, the. The modality is, or whatever it is that you’re, you’re talking about, just gimme the, the quick and dirty version of it.

[00:30:10] And I, I should be able to make a determination from there. And if I need more information after that, like you said there, there’s information out there and I can go and find it and, and kind of, dig into it further.

[00:30:21] Erik Lawrence: Oh yeah, I, I lift list all the references. I, I’ve read hundreds of books for this, and in the back is all those books. So if you need to dig it deeper, just look back there, find the book and dig into it, you know? But there’s more information now than that with YouTube and everything. I mean, I, I, you could become a PhD in whatever you want on YouTube, so.

[00:30:43] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. So we, I, I think we’ve, we actually had a little miss here. We’ve talked about the book kind of in general terms. What’s the name of the book for the listeners who are, who are interested in

[00:30:56] Erik Lawrence: Fire support. You know, I, I thought, you know, that’s the, the [00:31:00] best. Drill it down to one thing and we, when we need fire support, we need to know who to call. You know, and you need to preplan your fire. So, you know, it’s on Amazon, obviously, but, it’s just why not have all the information in one place?

[00:31:14] You know, people are not gonna read a hundred books just not happen. It’s just, I do a book a week, so why not?

[00:31:26] Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah, exactly. So I, I think you know, for, for the listeners, I think if you are in that position where you are just not sure. What, what’s next? What do I do next? Or I’m, I’m struggling. I think I’ve, I’ve tried everything. I don’t know what else there is out there. Well, this resource is available. Again, you, like you said, you don’t need to know every single resource that’s available.

[00:31:54] As a matter of fact, I think that’s counterproductive to know all the, the resources that are available because you don’t need all the [00:32:00] resources. You need, probably the, the one or two or you know, a couple things that will actually. move the, move you closer to the goal line to actually get past whatever issue it is that you uniquely you happen to be dealing with. And you know, don’t worry about what other people did and what other people what helped them because their issues are their issues and your issues are yours. But with a resource like this, you can, you can look up the type of stuff that that. Might be affecting you and, and find the, the the resources that will be beneficial to you for whatever it is that you might be dealing with.

[00:32:38] And you know, to me that that’s, that’s part of the reason why I wanted to have you on the show is just to, to kind of talk about that you know, as a resource because you know, sometimes it’s just you don’t know what you don’t know. And when, when you have a resource that’s available that that gives you information on stuff that. You just wouldn’t have thought of otherwise. Like you, you had, I [00:33:00] said

[00:33:00] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. There’s no way you would know.

[00:33:01] Scott DeLuzio: that I

[00:33:02] Erik Lawrence: Yeah.

[00:33:03] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I, I just never would’ve thought of some of this stuff exactly.

[00:33:07] Erik Lawrence: You know, if they suggest, Hey, go to this, and you’re like, truthfully, I, I’d rather look in here ’cause I’ve drilled it down to what we need to see, not what they would try to advertise and market to you because they believe it works. ’cause there’s some, I’ve been to one and two times just to prove it doesn’t work, you know?

[00:33:25] And then you find out it works for 30% of the patients, you’re like, how the hell can you sell a product that works 30% of the time? You know, I’m like, and you, you got guys in here that really need this bad, you know, I’ve gone to some of these modalities that I, I wrote a scathing a a r, you know, because the people they’re treating are so bad off or just don’t know any better.

[00:33:50] They don’t know what quality is. You know, and some of the clinics I’ve been to are world class. World class, and then you go to some that is, is [00:34:00] getting 20 or 30 vets a week in there. And it’s the most abysmal thing. It’s like, this isn’t gonna help anybody. It’s a delay a game. I mean, you might trick ’em into thinking they’re better, but I understand neurologically that this isn’t doing anything.

[00:34:16] You know? And somebody’s paying for ’em, and they don’t know their, their money’s being wasted, you know, as a donor. So I, I’ve made some sense too, you know.

[00:34:25] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, when, when you have people like, like who you’re just describing, like some of those veterans who are in, in need of something you know, kind of immediate and I, I think. A lot of times you’re gonna end up having someone who is very trustworthy or, or trusting of the, the folks who are running these

[00:34:43] Erik Lawrence: Correct,

[00:34:44] Scott DeLuzio: they’re in a position of, authority or, or, or you know, knowledgeable on, on a certain subject.

[00:34:51] And it’s like, you know what? I’m not knowledgeable on this, so I’m gonna trust what you have to say on this.

[00:34:55] Erik Lawrence: correct. Yeah.

[00:34:56] Scott DeLuzio: Then you start going down that, that path and a, it could be [00:35:00] the wrong path altogether. B it it could be potentially harmful for, you know, whatever it is that you might be dealing with. And you know, you, you wanna make sure that obviously folks are getting the, the right help and the right treatment and, and not being led down the wrong path.

[00:35:15] And so, and, and I’ve always said this, like you have to be your own advocate for these types of things. And so the more knowledge you have on what it is that you, you think you, you need the better you’re gonna be. Because I mean, you go to a doctor’s appointment, the doctor spends what, 10 minutes with you,

[00:35:30] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:32] Scott DeLuzio: you know, there’s no way they’re gonna be able to, to. Get all the information that they need to to help you. You have all the time in the world you can do all the research that you want to do on you. The doctor has forgotten your name by the time they walk out the door and they’re onto the next patient, and so, you know, yeah, sure. The doctors. They’re helpful in, in, in, in.

[00:35:53] Or if you think I, I, I don’t want to, you know, knock doctors in the medical profession, you know, a hundred percent. But let’s face it, [00:36:00] they, they don’t do the, the best job all the time. And, and you do need to be your own advocate and, and find the, the right things for you, and then bring that to the doctor if there’s a, a referral that’s needed or a prescription or a something that’s needed. You know, bring that to the doctor and, and say, Hey, this is what I think I need. What do you think, you know, based on X, y, and Z conditions. But, but that’s, that’s on you to do your homework. And, and I, I think I think that’s something a lot of people just farm out to the doctors and just trust their expertise kind of a hundred percent.

[00:36:32] And that, that’s not the right way to look

[00:36:34] Erik Lawrence: Yeah.

[00:36:34] Scott DeLuzio: I don’t think.

[00:36:38] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. But I, I think we need to help each other too, because when a guy’s down.

[00:36:42] Scott DeLuzio: Sure,

[00:36:43] Erik Lawrence: He’s not thinking logically. There’s been many a times I’ve had to have one of my buddies, you know, slap me upside of the head and say, let’s sit down and figure this out. ’cause when you’re out of it, you can’t make logical or you wouldn’t do it.

[00:36:57] You know that, that’s, I don’t care what level you [00:37:00] were at or what unit you’re in, what MOS you were, you know, you don’t know what all the contributing factors are. So, and that’s where like I’ve been through so many of these, it’s easier for me to go, here’s your triage, this, this, this, and this. Call this doctor, call this foundation.

[00:37:13] And more guys have to do that, you know, as, and it’s not easy. But I have, I’ve jerked a knot and a lot of guys going, Hey dude, doing nothing. It’s not helping. And you get ’em to like the first, second, or third things on the triage, and they’re a whole different person. But that’s where somebody has to identify.

[00:37:32] I can see it in their eyes. I stopped the guy one day walking down the street in dc He’s a sergeant, major in uniform. I’m like, stop. Let’s talk. I got him into therapy within a week, and he was in charge of like that in the, in the army, you know, at the Pentagon. I’m like, dude, you’re a wreck. Yeah, I am. And I, I didn’t know him from Adam.

[00:37:52] I just stopped him on the street. But you know, we have to, our own ego gets in the way, I think did for me for [00:38:00] years to identify enough things that worse you into action. So let’s catch ’em sooner.

[00:38:13] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. Being. Being a good buddy, a ba good battle buddy, whatever you wanna call it, and, and helping those folks out who are maybe just so far into it, they can’t see their way out.

[00:38:23] Erik Lawrence: Correct. Yes.

[00:38:24] Scott DeLuzio: so far deep in that, that dark tunnel, they don’t even see that there is light at the end of a tunnel.

[00:38:29] And so, you know, someone has to come in there with a flashlight and help ’em out and, and help kind of drag them through and. Doesn’t mean you gotta do everything for the person, but you, you have to, you know, help them, lead them in the right direction and, and, and get them to a place where they can start making some of these decisions on their own.

[00:38:48] ’cause like you said, sometimes you’re just not in that right state of mind to be able to do that stuff for yourself. And, and that’s unfortunate that, that we, we get to that point. But, ideally, those types of things should be [00:39:00] taken care of before they get to that point, but, but sometimes it’s just not, that’s not possible.

[00:39:04] Or, you know, like, like a lot of times it’s just missed,

[00:39:07] Erik Lawrence: Yeah. Yeah. Or people see it, but they don’t know what it is. You know, I was a bear for years, you know, but that was before all this stuff had been better defined, you know? And if you’ve worked, you know, classified stuff for years, I guarantee you in your mind, you know you’re gonna have some issues because, you know, you come back from a trip like, what’d you do?

[00:39:28] I’m like, nah, no, not really much. You know, hung out. Yeah, you were doing three hits a night, you know, and it’s just, it’s taxing. And guys are like, oh, it doesn’t matter. Call me in 10 years. Sunshine, let me know. You know, everything gets worse over time if you don’t deal with it.

[00:39:44] Scott DeLuzio: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, because. Yeah, you, you definitely have to be able to offload some of that stuff and, and un unburden your own, your own mind and uh, and and, and body in, in some cases of all these things that you’ve been carrying around. And that’s, [00:40:00] it’s an, it’s easier said than done. It’s definitely not an easy thing to do.

[00:40:03] And, and it’s you know, something that sometimes we just need help with and, and maybe a little bit of encouragement from, you know, someone like yourself with that, that sergeant major that you were talking about, like just. Hey, nudge him in the right direction. He probably knows that he probably needs something.

[00:40:16] Just doesn’t know what necessarily, but if you can kind of push him in the right direction, that, that might be just what he needs to, to get off his ass and start, start doing the right, right thing. Right?

[00:40:26] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, and a lot of the helpers are hiding themselves. You know, it’s distracting for them, Hey, I’m helping other people. I’m. Yeah, but your, your house is on fire, you know, so you, you can’t be the community fireman or a national fireman, you know, when your, when your bed’s on fire, you know, so it, it’s, I’ve seen it all, you know, I really great buddies that they do phenomenal things for other people, and then when you sit down with them, they need the exact same thing.

[00:40:52] They’re pushing out, you know, I fell for that years ago also.

[00:40:59] Scott DeLuzio: [00:41:00] Exactly. It’s hard. It’s hard. You, you wanna be a good buddy, but you, you also have to you have to put your own oxygen mask on first. You know, when you’re on an airplane and they tell you to put yours on first before helping others, you gotta do that. Apply that to your, your own general life. You know, take care of, take care of your own self first before. Worrying about all the other things. And, and you’ll be better off for it. You’ll be better able to help folks out with whatever it is that they’re dealing with because you’ve taken care of your stuff first. And, and you’re now in a, a better place to jump off and, and then help those folks with their issues.

[00:41:37] Erik Lawrence: Yeah,

[00:41:37] Scott DeLuzio: yeah, so, oh

[00:41:40] Erik Lawrence: yeah. And you know, tip tips are are better. You know, it’s better to learn from somebody else’s mistake than your own.

[00:41:47] Scott DeLuzio: sure.

[00:41:48] Erik Lawrence: know? Yeah. That’s SF 1 0 1. If you saw this guy do this wrong and fall, you’re like, I won’t do it that way. You know? Let’s do it this way.

[00:41:57] Scott DeLuzio: right. Exactly. [00:42:00] And it, it’s, it’s insanity to try, try doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, you know, if you see someone else has, has tried something and it didn’t work and, and it’s, or even maybe it’s counterproductive yeah. Don’t do that and, and try something else.

[00:42:16] And, and that’s you know, not necessarily a failure. It, it, all, it is, is really just a, a new data point. It’s like, okay, well that doesn’t work. Let’s try something else and, and let’s move on from there. So it’s not waste time on that other thing. So, so that’s a great advice. And I. Just from, from this, this little bit of a conversation, I could tell that the book is gonna be loaded with a, a hell of a lot more advice.

[00:42:37] You know, you said it’s, it’s, you know, 500 ish pages and it’s got tons and tons of resources and that, that’s, I think exactly what this community needs. We need more quick information on the type of things that are out there that, that we can, we can use to help ourselves or help our buddies or help whoever get the, get the get through whatever it [00:43:00] is that they’re going through.

[00:43:01] And so this is exactly what that is. Again just before we wrap up one last time, just tell the listeners the name of the book and where they can find it, all that stuff. And then I’ll, I’ll make sure that the, the links and everything are in the, the show notes.

[00:43:14] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, fire support. You know, obviously I’m the author and it’s on Amazon, but there’s just so many hard learned lessons in there, and, you know, I put stuff in there that doesn’t work because I found out it didn’t work. But I want you to kind of know it too. And you know, you can’t take it as, as gospel, but it, everything in there has been figured out the hard way.

[00:43:35] Scott DeLuzio: Right. And I think knowing what doesn’t work to to that point is you know, just as valuable as knowing what does work, because you might have heard from somebody else, Hey. you try, you know, X, Y, Z, whatever the thing is. And then you start reading up on it. It’s like, well, geez, that doesn’t really sound like it would be such a great idea.

[00:43:55] And, and so, you know, may, maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but at least you, you [00:44:00] have more information about. All of the things that are, that are out there. And, and I, I think information is, is definitely power. And that’s what this book gives. So, again, for the listeners that, that link will be in the show notes, you can check out the, the book from there. But Eric, I want to thank you again for for coming on the show and sharing your, your insights and, and your background and, and everything. And and, and also thank you for you know. The work that you’re doing to help support the veterans in the, in our community. I think it’s, it’s definitely time for, for folks to start stepping up and doing, doing stuff like what you’re doing.

[00:44:30] So thank you.

[00:44:31] Erik Lawrence: Yeah, no, I, I’m trying to get more people to jump in there. It’s definitely a huge problem, but it’s, but it’s workable.

[00:44:38] Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely.