Episode 551 Tony Kessel Lyrics That Kept Me Here Transcript

This transcript is from episode 551 with guest Tony Kessel.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Life after the service can feel loud. Even when the room is quiet, your head replays old scenes. Sometimes you try to forget them. Try to push them down, and you reach for anything that helps you feel a little bit less alone. For a lot of us, that’s something is music, but the headphones on the world just shuts off and you hope that the right song will hold you together for one more night.

[00:00:25] Now imagine being able to point to a specific song and say, you know, that one got me through this period of my life. This other one got me through a deployment. This one got me through a, a divorce. This one got me off of from stepping off that edge. This is a, a, a clear way of how far you can come and, and how much you have survived by being able to kind of replay some of these songs, uh, in your head.

[00:00:53] Uh, today, in this episode, you’re gonna hear from someone who actually did stuff just like that army National Guard. [00:01:00] Officer and author Tony Kessel built a playlist of his life. He wrote out the stories behind 366 songs and turned years of bottle up emotions, suicidal thoughts and spiritual questions into a book.

[00:01:14] Uh, and in his home studio, uh, we, we talk about how music can be a crutch that keeps you stuck, and how it can also be a tool that helps you finally face. What you’ve been running from, we get into non-combat deployments that still twist you up thinking that maybe you should have done more coming home almost overnight, suicide intervention training.

[00:01:36] And why simply just sitting there with someone in their worst moment matters more than the perfect advice that you might want to give. Before we get into this conversation though, I, I do want to talk a little bit about the, global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. Uh, it’s a foundation that is, uh, working to build a permanent national memorial, uh, in [00:02:00] Washington DC to honor the service members, the families, the, uh, individuals who are involved with the Global War on terrorism and, and honor their sacrifices and, and service.

[00:02:10] If you’d like to learn more about the memorial, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

[00:02:20]

[00:02:33] Scott DeLuzio: Hey, Tony, welcome to the show. I’m really glad to have you here.

[00:02:36] Tony Kessel: Hey, thanks for having me. Wanna wish you a

[00:02:38] happy Veteran’s Day

[00:02:39] as well, so thank you

[00:02:40] Scott DeLuzio: Y yeah, you bet.

[00:02:42] Yeah. Yeah. It’s

[00:02:43] And, and likewise, you know,

[00:02:45] for, for the, the listeners who, who are hearing this and, and you know, it’s, it’s when we record these episodes sometimes a little bit in advance, so, you know, it was, you know, veterans Day yesterday, when, when you know, at the time of the recording.

[00:02:57] So, you know, it’s, it’s really awesome. You know, getting a, [00:03:00] we were talking before the, the recording here, but it’s really awesome getting to chat with other veterans on this show. I, I, I feel real, really privileged to be able to do that. And, and just hear the stories and be, be, first off, be trusted to be able to hear other veteran stories and kind of creating a, a place where, where people feel comfortable enough to come on and, and share some of their you know, the, the highs and lows of their lives and, and stuff.

[00:03:23] And so it’s, it’s really a great opportunity here and, and hopefully for some of the listeners, they, they take away some, some valuable feedback and, and you know, hopefully get some. Get some hope out of out of your story here and, and all the others that we’ve had. So, so let’s jump into your, your story a little bit.

[00:03:38] You, you spent years immersed in, in music you know, listening to tons and tons of music. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your background you know, between music and the military and, and all that kinda stuff. Just let, let’s get a little little background on who you are.

[00:03:52] Tony Kessel: Okay. Yeah, they’re oddly enough you would think that they’re intertwined. They’re they are, but they’re not. As far as military, [00:04:00] I’ve, I’ve been in the National Guard for 22 years now. I currently am in the New Mexico Army National Guard, enlisted in 2004 in North Dakota as a 12 Bravo or a combat engineer. And then had a little bit of college. So I did the, the traditional state OCS program and ended up picking up my commission as an engineer officer. And so really a lot of my experience in the Army has been in the engineer realm. Culminated really in 2020. 2020 is when I, when I left the engineer regimen and branched logistics for upward mobility. so I, I got to close out my, my engineer portion outta the engineer portion of my career by the end of company commander of an engineer construction company. then promoted to major and now I’m a logistics officer, basically working at a regional training institute. So, not really logistics based.

[00:04:54] I’m more of an operations kind of guy. That’s where I’ve hung out when I’m, when I haven’t been in leadership. it’s [00:05:00] absolutely love everything, everything that I am, everything that I’ve become. on the professional side, I would, I would basically say is, is largely contributed to. Being around soldiers and leading soldiers.

[00:05:14] And just as a side note, I I come from a long line of NCOs and so my I was legally adopted and my, my father was a Vietnam vet. My adoptive father was a Vietnam vet. It was, it was almost like a betrayal when, when I jumped over to the officer side, He’s like, there’s only one.

[00:05:32] It’s your, it’s your cousin buttons. And that guy, and he’s, he’s been different than the rest of us, you know, so he’s that’s kind of a large part of my military career is being raised by an NCO and now being an officer and, and having that appreciation for what the non-Commission Officer Corps does. Making sure that you’re not stepping on what they do, valuing their opinion, soliciting feedback, but also having the courage to

[00:05:56] to jump forward and make a decision ultimately when the, when the [00:06:00] crap hits the,

[00:06:00] fan. You know?

[00:06:01] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:06:02] Tony Kessel: yeah. So there’s, there’s a lot of things that I do. I’d be like, what would my dad want me to do as an officer?

[00:06:07] Which I think is, is by far one of the, the strongest guiding. Things that has led to my success in the military is being an NCO minded officer. Music a little bit different. I can’t really separate our service from music. Like a lot of the things that. do has music around it, you know, army bands and, you know, marching drums and the national anthem, you know, all that stuff.

[00:06:33] But, you know, my, my whole life I’ve been processing through music, through various song lyrics and, you know, as you know, going through the military, those song lyrics change and the meaning has always been that impactful. being, being with a fellow veteran it’s, it’s those songs like. American Soldier by Toby

[00:06:55] Keith, when you’re, you’re sitting in a place and you’re about to graduate

[00:06:59] like, man, I [00:07:00] feel this now.

[00:07:00] That’s the

[00:07:01] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:07:01] Tony Kessel: experience every piece of music. so when you, when you have those intense moments, if I were to tell somebody what my experience with music is, is really, that every song that I interact with, every song that I listen to is, is that deep? So my journey, just in case you’re wondering, it’s one of the big questions.

[00:07:24] I, I grew up a Garth Brooks fan, like a, that’s all I listened to. And then when he retired in 2000, I went on to other country, nineties countries, some of the best stuff out

[00:07:34] there. dad was like into old, old country,

[00:07:37] you know, Conway Twitty,

[00:07:39] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:07:40] Tony Kessel: Cash. Kind of losing my train of thought. Dan Seals all those guys, Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson, all that stuff. my foster mom was from Detroit, so I grew up on the other half of like r and b, Celine Dion, Michael Jackson, like all this deep, deep stuff that was basically out of the Motown scene. [00:08:00] Well, when he retired, I went onto the country and then I dabbled around in Pop a little bit.

[00:08:05] I went into like, radio rock, your Matchbox 20 Fuel goo Doll, stuff like that.

[00:08:09] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:08:10] Tony Kessel: I took a hard turn into like heavy metal. So I listened to Creed and then Creed I got into like Slipknot Corn, mud

[00:08:18] Van Manson, all that stuff. And then just

[00:08:21] kind of took off from there.

[00:08:24] Scott DeLuzio: So, so you’re like all over the board as far as music goes, like it there,

[00:08:27] there’s not really

[00:08:29] too much that you’re not, you’re not dabbling into at at some point, right?

[00:08:33] Tony Kessel: Yeah,

[00:08:34] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:08:34] Tony Kessel: like, I don’t, I don’t appreciate current rap. Like there’s some of the older stuff that has really meaning towards, you know, like overcoming and adapting, all that, all that stuff where, where rappers were insanely skilled with rhyming words like your m and ms today. Some of

[00:08:51] that stuff now is, I’m like, what are you even talking about?

[00:08:54] There’s not even really a

[00:08:54] struggle. So that, that’s a little

[00:08:56] bit more,

[00:08:57] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:08:58] Tony Kessel: difficult and then stadium country,

[00:08:59] stuff [00:09:00] like that.

[00:09:00] But. I,

[00:09:01] Scott DeLuzio: Gotcha. Yeah.

[00:09:02] Tony Kessel: and I

[00:09:03] appreciate everything, so.

[00:09:05] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so.

[00:09:06] so, music obviously has,

[00:09:08] played a big, big piece in, in your, your life. And tell us like, so you, you, you wrote it’s all in the lyrics, right? And I want to kind of get into that a little bit. Tell us a little bit about that and, and kind of what what that’s all about and, and how that kind of fits into this whole, whole story here.

[00:09:25] Tony Kessel: Yeah, so, and I’ll, I’ll show you. So this is the physical copy. It’s all in the lyrics, how music helped me heal and find my voice. It’s got all of the stories from me joining the army, some basic training stuff. I went on a mobilization in 2011. Flood tours, like my military career is a large part of who I am, and you can’t separate that from your story. And so a lot of those things in there, I led worship on a deployment for contemporary Christian service. So it’s like, it’s a lot of different things that are, are out there, and that’s really where I started becoming a better musician is [00:10:00] because I had nothing but time sitting around playing guitar. But yeah, so I, I honestly haven’t shared this story anywhere else and I, I’ll tell you the origin story, but. When I joined the Army, three doors down, citizen Soldier, I’m in the Guard was recruiters were handing that song out like a download code card. And so I jokingly say that’s the reason I joined the Army is ’cause I love music so much that three doors down, I was like, I gotta get that song.

[00:10:26] And it wasn’t on a CD yet. so when I was in the recruiter’s office I was like, can I get one of those download codes? He’s like, oh yeah, man. That’s all you want. I got a $6,000

[00:10:38] bonus and a download for Citizen

[00:10:41] Soldier. But that’s why

[00:10:43] Scott DeLuzio: They’ll get you any way they can. Won’t they?

[00:10:45] Tony Kessel: they

[00:10:45] will, They will, And I, 22 years later,

[00:10:49] Still love the song.

[00:10:50] But yeah, so really it’s all in the lyrics. Came about 2017. Garth Brooks was in Las Cruces, New Mexico. I was at Drill. [00:11:00] And again, a lot of people don’t understand this song. One weekend a month, I lived in Las Cruces, but I drilled in Roswell. I was at Drill and the concert was in Las Cruces. It’s 180 miles, three hours away. I got in my car after final formation, drove all the way to Las Cruces, saw Garth Brooks’ late show, got back into my car and drove all the way back to Roswell. I was, I was back at like three in the morning, reported back to first formation. I was, I was like. 30. So I hadn’t done that in a long time, but like as being a Garth Brooks fan, you heard it how far I got away from him. as I was striving to this concert, I had my iPod on, and I was just listening to all these Garth Brooks songs in my childhood is just like being relived and replayed in my, in my mind. and and I was like, what in the world? How did you live all of this life? All the things that I thought were absolutely like not capable of being, like overcome as a child, you know, the [00:12:00] intensity of emotion. I’m like, man, I never dreamt any of my life would pan out the way that it did. So after the concert, I go get back in my car and I put my iPod on shuffle and basically relive the rest of the experience and, you know, flashbacks of, you know, graduating from high school and joining the army and becoming a father.

[00:12:18] And like every song had had a story. And I just felt all of this emotion. Basically, by the time I pulled into Roswell, I was like, man, I gotta build a playlist of my life. Like I need to build a soundtrack and I need to tell these stories. And that’s what I did. And so 366 songs, one song per day for a year, I blogged just as a kind of way, like a healing journey to be like, rates, your steps and, and see exactly how far you’ve come. The end of that. I didn’t mean to write a book. I didn’t, I was just like, Hey, I, I just wanna get some of this out. But at the end of it, I, I was like, there’s so much stuff. I pulled it back out, started editing it, and I was like, this is crazy. People really need to

[00:12:58] hear this story. [00:13:00] So that’s kind of

[00:13:01] where it all came from.

[00:13:03] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. You know, I,

[00:13:05] I’ve often been,

[00:13:07] you know, maybe driving in the car or at the gym or whatever and, and a song will come on and it, it could even be a song that I’ve heard. Hundreds of times before and I, it just will come on. And for some reason, I dunno, maybe I just wasn’t listening to the lyrics really well before, but all of a sudden it just like clicks with me.

[00:13:25] Like, like this has some meaning to something that maybe that’s going on right now, or something that happened years ago that I, I’m kind of thinking through in my head or whatever that I’m, I’m just trying to process whatever and, and the song just. Has some meaning. It may not even be the intended meaning of the song, but just has a personal meaning to me and.

[00:13:48] I just can’t stop listening to a song after that. It’s like, I, I wanna just keep listening to it over and over again and see if, was there something else in that song that I missed that, like, what, what else am I I missing here? And then I wanna listen to [00:14:00] other songs too, because there maybe there’s something else I missed in one of those other songs.

[00:14:03] And I, I wanna, I would just wanna find more and more of this. And I, I gotta imagine when you have a, a, you know. 366 different songs that you’re, you’re going through. Like, it’s probably a similar process when you’re, you’re hearing these songs and, and just that, that meaning and, and impactfulness comes through to you and it’s like, I, I wanna scream this from the rooftops and tell everyone about this.

[00:14:24] ’cause maybe somebody else is sitting there just hearing the music, but not actually listening to it and understanding it.

[00:14:30] Tony Kessel: Yeah, yeah. And it was, I think that’s the, the thing is I, I’ve had such an intense relationship with music that I, I basically lived my life through the lyrics of songs. There were times and, and I mean you can relate. There are times when you’re going through something and that

[00:14:46] song feels like the only thing that you’re clinging to from.

[00:14:50] Mental health perspective. So for me, I’ve used it as a drug my entire life as a way to like medicate and try to understand exactly where I am in, in my [00:15:00] position in the world and, and what I can do to get past this moment. It’s, I’m making it sound really dark. I

[00:15:05] mean, I just told you I joined, I joined the Army for a download code.

[00:15:08] So there are like a lot of lighter moments.

[00:15:10] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:15:11] Tony Kessel: but I think that’s. Power. And especially in the military, you know, like five finger death punches. Wrong side of heaven, right side of hell like, there’s this camaraderie when, when you see that music video. And I’m telling you, I, I have to be careful when I watch it because I, I’ll break down into tears every time is when he, I hope I’m not spoiling this music video for anyone if I am, watch it. but there’s a guy who got saved by Special forces dude. And then later on, the Special Forces guy on the street, and the guy who got saved sees him and he goes up there and the guy’s freaking out. ’cause he is, you know, he’s on, he’s on the guard, PTSD type stuff. and he, he grabs him and the guy’s kind of freaking out

[00:15:52] and he looks him right in the eye and he’s like. saved my life. I like

[00:15:55] almost bust every time.

[00:15:57] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:15:58] Tony Kessel: meaning and that comradery [00:16:00] in, in military individuals, it’s like you can run into somebody and the connection between like you and I is automatic, like the comfort being in the presence of the 1% of people who have served in in the United States, militaries. You, you can’t explain that to civilians, and so to alienate any civilians who may listen to the, the podcast, but it’s, it’s such this deep,

[00:16:25] just intense, almost the

[00:16:27] same way that I, I

[00:16:28] experience music, So,

[00:16:30] really

[00:16:31] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah. so

[00:16:34] so all of these, these stories that, that you, you talk about all, all these songs I should say, that you, you talk about in in, in the book, you’re, you’re kind of pulling together kind of that, that. Sounds like the meaning from each of these songs and, and kind of how, how it’s in impacting you and you know, do you get into kinda like your own personal life in terms of like, like how it, like what was going on at the time that you’re listening to the song and, you know, how, [00:17:00] how did that help you through, you know, certain situations where it was a dark time or, you know, uplifting time or, or something like that.

[00:17:06] What, what were were some of the, the kind of stories or, or things like that that, that kind of have seeped their way into the, into the book?

[00:17:14] Tony Kessel: Yeah. And so I, I try not to be that on the nose. And that was one of the harder parts of writing the book is, you know, like, here’s a song and this song means this because of this. Like, I try not to be that

[00:17:24] specific. like the song title is there, and

[00:17:28] then I talk about. What I went through

[00:17:30] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:17:30] Tony Kessel: I, just leave it at that. so I, I’ve been through a lot. I grew up in a foster home. I was legally adopted as a child. You know, you got the fear of abandonment. You got all those mental health issues that, that you’re just kind of sifting through. And so, song by song, I’m kind of journeying through that, like what I felt in those, not necessarily what I felt, but what I was going through and, and experiencing in those moments. I was a troubled child. So, my dad being an army vet. As I was troubled, he would use tactics and [00:18:00] techniques he gained from his very extensive military career to reform me. And I guess that’s probably why I joined the military. But, you know, so like, the story I’ll tell you ’cause I’m striking up curiosity.

[00:18:11] Was in trouble. And so I mowed the lawn and I went to go get the weed eater and my dad’s like, Nope, you’re in trouble. You got time. He handed me a pair of scissors and so when around our, our lawn, it took me so long moved, so I think I moved five tons of landscaping rock in my backyard. Like I said, troubled child. So I, I’m telling these stories about like what I’m learning and, and all of that. And like I said, when you, you graduate from high school, you have these, you know, conundrums of identity and trying to figure that out. It’s, it’s all of that stuff to, know, joining the army. And if, if you connect the dots, you’re like, oh, okay. I see this discipline thing brought him sense of meaning, purpose, joining the military. It. I try to connect everything in that way. [00:19:00] And all along the while or the way, I’m basically trying to find out who am I? what is the purpose of life? Like what, what, why is all this stuff happening to me and what do I do with this story now that I’ve lived it or these little moments as I’ve overcome it.

[00:19:15] So a lot of mental health stuff ’cause I’ve had it. Yeah. It’s a lot of that, and like I said, instead of just being on the nose, be like, I listened to the song and I was sad, and then it, I, I felt better. Like I, I try to stay out of the emotions and let people

[00:19:30] determine their own relationship with music or whatever

[00:19:34] art form they appreciate.

[00:19:36] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, I think for everybody listening to a song especially ’cause that’s kind of the topic that we’re, we’re kind of covering here, but,

[00:19:44] Tony Kessel: mm-hmm.

[00:19:44] Scott DeLuzio: As I listen to a song, if we’re both listening to the same song at the same time, right now,

[00:19:50] I’m gonna probably take away something a little bit different than you are.

[00:19:53] So for, for you to kind of write down, Hey, this is how you should feel about this particular song. It’s like, that’s kind of bullshit. Like, no, nobody, [00:20:00] nobody’s gonna feel the same exact way. I mean, you might, you might get the same kind of emotion coming from a, a particular song like you mentioned that a five Finger Death brunch song.

[00:20:10] And I’ve heard it. I’ve seen the video that you were talking about and. I think some people, like as, as you’re watching that video you might actually see yourself in that video as, as one of those pe people in the, in the video. Maybe not because you’ve actually gone through it, but you could see the path that maybe could get you there.

[00:20:30] I, I know I could

[00:20:31] you know, couple, couple wrong decisions and, and I’m that guy, you know, I’m that guy who’s, who’s sitting there on the street and, you know. Going through, going through hell basically. And yeah, so of course it’s gonna be a little bit emotional too. To see that kind of thing. And, and I think the video adds another dimension to the songs than just listening to the song itself.

[00:20:55] You know, because then you get that visual aspect, you can kind of see what the artist [00:21:00] was intending while, while you’re watching that video as well. And, and so it, it can. Become quite emotional. You, you even mentioned another song that the Toby Keith American Soldier song earlier. And that song in particular, I, I was actually at a Toby Keith concert years ago.

[00:21:16] And

[00:21:18] I was there with my brother. He was also army

[00:21:21] and. He wasn’t a big country fan, he was just going kind of to, I, I think his, his girlfriend at the time was, was going too, and he, he was just kind of going to hang out and, and you know, have a good time and everything. And, and he heard the song and I think it was probably the first time he ever heard the song was at the concert and he just like, broke down.

[00:21:37] He was crying, like in, in the, in the the, the theater where, where we’re watching the, the concert and, it’s like, it, it, it’s super powerful. And you know, I, I think kind of the, the takeaway really for, for the listeners here is that you know, everyone goes through stuff at some point. You know, good, bad things happen all the time.

[00:21:59] [00:22:00] And you know, sometimes music has this kind of healing. Quality to it where, where you can use that to help you get through something. And you know, kinda like what we had been talking about earlier, that you, you might be able to, I mean, it’s not gonna be replace a therapist necessarily. If that’s what you need, then you need that, you know, and, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

[00:22:20] But you know, it might just be able to kind. Get you through that, that tough time. That’s why they, they, you know, they have love songs and they have all these other kind of songs that, that are out there. Right. And, and it like, helps people get through the various things that are, are going on in their lives.

[00:22:34] And you know, and I, I think, you know, men mental health especially you know, I, I think the, the way music impacts us just. Can really benefit us in, in certain ways if we allow it to. You know, so if you’re just passively listening to a song, it may not have the same effect, but if you’re actually listening with some sort of intention, you know, it might, might actually do some good for you as well, [00:23:00] right?

[00:23:00] Tony Kessel: Yeah, that was, that was kind of the conclusion I drew at the end of the book is, you know, I, I talk about some mental health. grew up in a foster home, so I was in years of therapy, eight to 10 years of childhood talk therapy and play therapy and all that stuff. And I was still using music as the drug to process this stuff. And, and really it came to a head is, is I was, you know, post-deployment. It was a non-combat to Kuwait deployment. I, I came back and just, you store all your emotions for a year. You go through things and you come back and, you know, I just had my first child and so there’s a lot of resentment towards. Like, I grew up in a foster home and I was kind of doing the same thing to my son unintentionally. so you come back off of deployment and you know, all these mismanaged or packed away emotions and you’re trying to come to grips with them and like, like you said, with five finger death punch, like I was inches away. I, I believe I disassociated [00:24:00] basically so much emotion that I, I was numb and almost had like an out-of-body third party experience.

[00:24:05] I was just watching myself. Like navigate through life. And I applied for a job to be a veterans admissions rep helping, you know, vets use VA benefits at a tech vocational school. And, and so I’m walking around with vets who had, you know, been in a combat that are dealing with survivor’s guilt and telling stories about, you know, I had to pull this trigger on the guy was, I, did I make the right decision? You know, like these deep things. And I just got off this non-combat deployment and, and I’m like, man, you have no right. To

[00:24:36] feel this way, and I, that is wrong. You have every right to

[00:24:40] feel that way, but that’s what I thought. And so like

[00:24:42] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:24:43] Tony Kessel: therapy and all that stuff really wasn’t in it, I didn’t feel like it was necessary.

[00:24:49] Or when I did see a therapist, they were like, oh, you,

[00:24:52] you just need to sit through this. It’s gonna be good. I don’t ever need to see you again. And so I, I kept

[00:24:57] medicating through music. And, [00:25:00] and it works temporarily. It’s like, you know, pounding four beers one night. Like it’ll make you forget that you have an issue in that moment,

[00:25:09] it won’t help you address what it

[00:25:11] is that you’re still carrying.

[00:25:13] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:25:14] Tony Kessel: kind of one of my things as I was going through this right before you know, I started, went to this concert. like, man, you can’t. You can’t use music to run away from your problems. Like you actually have to face them for real. You need to feel these things for real and move past it.

[00:25:32] And I say that like, it’s so easy. not, it, it takes a lot. It takes a lot of conversation. It takes, you know, good, good buddies, therapists, medication if you need it. it takes so much and it takes a community. a community that you may not be willing to trust specifically in our circle. Again,

[00:25:55] like civilians, it’s not that we don’t trust ’em.

[00:25:57] It’s like, what can you

[00:25:58] even relate to

[00:25:59] our [00:26:00] track?

[00:26:00] Scott DeLuzio: Right,

[00:26:01] Tony Kessel: And

[00:26:01] Scott DeLuzio: right.

[00:26:02] Tony Kessel: difficult,

[00:26:03] you know?

[00:26:04] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no, it is absolutely difficult and

[00:26:08] I, I know a lot of, lot of folks who. Go to a civilian therapist and, and think to themselves like, what is this person even doing? What, how could they possibly help me? And you know, yeah, sure. They, they may not have had the same experiences, but you know, quite frankly, nobody’s had the same exact experiences that you’ve had.

[00:26:25] I mean, yeah, sure. I’ve been to combat, you know, somebody else might have been to combat and so, okay. Maybe we get. That aspect of it and, and you know, but it’s, it’s not that those other people are completely incapable of ever having any sort of useful information that they could provide to you. Like they, they, they still do have their place where they, they can help you out in, in a way.

[00:26:48] But, you know, one of the things that you mentioned is that. You do have to face your problems too. You know, music is gonna, isn’t going to completely heal you and, and fix everything. You know, it, it can be provide a temporary [00:27:00] benefit where, you know, for in that moment maybe you’re, you’re. Not worried about the world outside and you’re, you’re just kind of focused on that song or whatever.

[00:27:09] And I, I look at it kind of like a, a crutch. Like if you were to break your leg and you get a cast on and, and you’re walking on crutches like. You’re not gonna be walking on crutches forever. It’s just the thing that you need to get through that particular moment in time, that, that that period of time that you have a broken leg and there’s nothing wrong with that.

[00:27:30] Like, you, you need it for a period of time and then you, you won’t. After a bit and you allow yourself to process through things and it maybe just kind of takes the edge off a little bit, maybe makes it so that you can clear your head a bit and then focus on the thing that you need to be focused on.

[00:27:47] The thing that you need to be working on, on yourself and not be. In a thousand different places in your head, and, and it might just clear some of those, those cobwebs that, that are, that are [00:28:00] going on out there and, and it might just help, help you out a little bit. So, you know, that, that’s, that I think is kind of like the key piece of it, and I’m glad you brought that up because yeah, you, you absolutely have to go through the.

[00:28:12] The emotions and the, the pain sometimes and the, the stuff that, that absolutely sucks while you’re going through it. But afterwards you, you look back on it and, and it’s like, man, I, I can’t believe I, I got through all of that. And look at me now, and I, I, I feel like. You know, the, the strongest guy in the world sometimes, you know, like, because, ’cause I was able to do all those hard and and, and yeah, even the, even the strongest people whether it’s physically or mentally or whatever, they’re gonna need some help at some point.

[00:28:39] You know,

[00:28:40] Tony Kessel: Yeah.

[00:28:41] Scott DeLuzio: even look at the physical health. You got a guy at the gym you know. On occasion, they’re gonna need a spotter, you know? And so, you know, it, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s like they’re pushing themselves. They’re, they’re pushing themselves to a limit. And you know, with your, your mental health, you know, you may have been pushed, you may not want to necessarily get there, but things happen and, and you [00:29:00] may be pushed to, to your limits, and on occasion you might need some help.

[00:29:03] And so that’s where stuff like this kind of fits in to, to kind of help take that edge off and, and make it just that little bit easier for you to, to kind of push through. Right.

[00:29:13] Tony Kessel: Absolutely. Yeah. And,

[00:29:15] Scott DeLuzio: So,

[00:29:15] Tony Kessel: I, I appreciate that what you said about physical health is, know, I, and I’ve, as I’ve gone through my own mental health journey, I, I went to a VA counselor who was a civilian and

[00:29:27] was fantastic. But you know, a lot of the people that

[00:29:30] I leaned on were fellow veterans.

[00:29:32] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:29:33] Tony Kessel: However, it was as, as I got better, I was like, how do I use this?

[00:29:38] You know? So, suicide intervention, you being an Army guy, asist. Getting into like mental health coaching and even one step further mental or muscle resiliency training is getting further and further away from suicide and suicidal ideation to the source of like, how do we build resilient in a way that they’re able to face the things that we know we’re gonna push them [00:30:00] into? And I appreciate the military stance on understanding that. Your mind is, it’s a, it’s a health, it’s a, a health outcome that your mind has the ability to be sick as well. So just in the same way that if you did sprain an ankle or break a leg, you’d have to see a doctor. The same thing that, that paradigm and that stigma is, is shifting towards, your mind. As a matter of fact, our mind as members of the military or soldiers our greatest asset. So like, taking care of that and, and. Putting us in a place where we actually are able to be strong in very difficult situations. Life and death is in the balance as we’re making decisions and, and keeping yourself sharp and getting any type of assistance to,

[00:30:53] maintain careers is critical, is it’s,

[00:30:56] it’s

[00:30:56] so critical. thanks for

[00:30:58] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, it,

[00:30:59] Tony Kessel: and

[00:30:59] acknowledging that. [00:31:00]

[00:31:01] Scott DeLuzio: yeah. No, ab absolutely. And, and it, it, it’s, it’s actually kind of, kind of, interesting because when you, you look at, at some, you know, some of the top elite. Soldiers or, or, you know, Navy Seals or you know, rangers and, and whatever the, the top elite that, whatever you have it pictured in your mind as, as that, you know, top level of, of of, of.

[00:31:24] Military I’ll just use soldier as a generic term right now, but I, I know I’m gonna, I’m gonna get catch some crap from, from the Marines and the, and the sailors and the, everything else. But but you know, when, when you’re looking at that, that top level elite soldier you’re looking at, probably thinking of, of people who are in top peak physical health they’re, they’re strong as can be.

[00:31:47] They, they can, they can run, they can, they can lift, they can do all the things physically, and, and they are built like machines is, is kind of probably the picture that a lot of people have. But to your point, if their mind isn’t [00:32:00] right, then none of the other stuff really matters. You know, they, you gotta, you.

[00:32:04] You gotta be able to take control of your, your mind too, so that way you can make good decisions. So you can use that power, that, that strength, that endurance that you have built up over time, which, don’t get me wrong, all that stuff is super important as well. But if, if your mind isn’t, if directing it in a, a good, positive direction, then I mean, what, what good is the rest of it?

[00:32:28] If you’re, if you’re maybe even moving in the wrong direction. With the physical stuff it, it kind of is, isn’t very helpful. So, having the, having the, the strength to say, Hey, you know what, my mind’s not right. I gotta go do something to get it right. And again, whether that’s talking to a therapist or, or whatever it is that you might need go, go get it done because otherwise you’re not as strong as you think you are.

[00:32:57] You know, you’re, you’re.

[00:32:59] It might [00:33:00] actually be hurting other folks who might be relying on you to be mentally tough as well, right?

[00:33:06] Tony Kessel: absolutely. Yeah. You nailed it.

[00:33:10] Yeah, so you, I think you’re, everyone gets the image, David Ogden, you know, like he’s, he’s everyone’s superhero. It’s restraint and knowing that you are lethal. You know, when we talk about fighting forces, knowing how lethal you are, but knowing exactly when and where to apply that force. because I’m, I’m guard, so 50% of my career still showing restraint. But in a loving way, saving your neighbors, pulling them out of floods, you know, just moments of clarity and chaos, but for a

[00:33:47] completely different reason. And, and

[00:33:49] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:33:50] Tony Kessel: it all, equals the same thing in the end, even when we’re, you know, weapons of fury.

[00:33:54] In the end, we’re pushing for a piece. And I, I tell my [00:34:00] veteran brothers and

[00:34:00] sisters, nobody prays for peace more than somebody who

[00:34:04] serves in the military.

[00:34:06] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:34:06] Tony Kessel: that is always the end game goal. But mental, the mental clarity and discipline is what makes the American Service member, or,

[00:34:18] or I’ll say, soldier again, more

[00:34:21] deadly than all the rest. You see what I’m

[00:34:23] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:34:24] Tony Kessel: I think that’s the, the largest part of what we’re starting to understand. Take for example, and, and I, I went through this and I was talking to one of my buddies post-deployment who all kinds of stuff, and I was like, man, I’m, I’m weak. Like what in the world? And he was like, Hey man, tell me about your coming back experience. like, well, I was in Kuwait one day and then I got into a plane and 24 hours later I was sitting at Fort Bliss. He’s like, you know how they used to, he’s like, who? Who’s the toughest generation? He’s all being, you know, seri with me. He’s like, Hey, who would you say the toughest generation is? I’m like, ah, duh, world War ii. He’s like, [00:35:00] how do you think they came back? I was like, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t think about it. They’re just better than us, you know? He’s like, no, no man. Like sat in the belly of a shit for a month with their buddies and they got to tell the stories and. Through that, that is where the strength came from.

[00:35:16] And he is like, and we just take soldiers and like,

[00:35:18] yeah. You, you said you’ve deployed, have you ever been to

[00:35:22] Alisal name in Kuwait?

[00:35:24] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:35:25] Yeah.

[00:35:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:35:26] Tony Kessel: the most desolate place, and I, I talk about it in my book. It is one

[00:35:30] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:35:30] Tony Kessel: places I’ve ever been in my life. I call it Hell’s waiting Room because you’re sitting there and I was, I was coming. Yeah, I was coming back from Kuwait and I got into an argument with a, a warrant officer, ’cause I was wearing acus. He was wearing OCPs and or multi cams at the time. He is like, oh, it must be nice. I’m like,

[00:35:49] I didn’t pick where I’m serving, man. Like, I got a call

[00:35:52] I answered the call and I’m here like,

[00:35:54] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Right.

[00:35:55] Tony Kessel: Like you as a chief warrant officer have a responsibility to be a little [00:36:00] bit more. than that, you know, so I’m lecturing the, it’s on a bus, like e fours are hearing us talk about this, and he’s like, no, no, you’re right, man. Like he, he

[00:36:09] quickly reformed to guidance or my

[00:36:12] correction, if you will.

[00:36:15] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:36:15] Tony Kessel: take where we serve. And so you’re in this melting pot of different experiences where like dudes carrying weapons with a thousand yard stare that were in combat yesterday. Now they’re at LSA and they’re like, I’m safe, then us, and we’re engaging with these people, and you’re like, what am I doing with my career right now?

[00:36:35] Again, wrestling with those very dialogues that I had with that warrant officer and. just like you don’t have, we, we didn’t have that time in the GWOT era to process what it was that we just felt yesterday. know, time changes, all of this stuff that, that we had to go through and now all of a sudden you [00:37:00] get back into America, you’re separated from your bodies who had that exact experience.

[00:37:04] You don’t have that comradery of, Hey, do you remember when so and so did such and such? He’s such an idiot. You know, like those

[00:37:09] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:37:10] Tony Kessel: we have to tell. And those things we have to just kind of ruminate in to be okay to go into normal society. And I think that that was such a powerful lesson that he taught me.

[00:37:22] And no other person that I could have talked to could have shared that, but somebody who went on GWOT deployments that understands one week at Fort Bliss, then total separation from your buddies and back to your family. Maybe that’s not

[00:37:38] always the way. Maybe that isn’t the way to

[00:37:42] resilience, you’ll find it or you’ll have to, but that, that dynamic between a World War II soldier

[00:37:51] or service member us is, is a

[00:37:54] big difference.

[00:37:55] I.

[00:37:55] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, because you are right when I, I mean, when you’re going through [00:38:00] there,

[00:38:01] you’re home in no time, in a blink of an eye in comparison to those World War II soldiers who would be on those ships for weeks at a time and. Really have nothing other to do than, than to sit there and shoot the shit with everybody else.

[00:38:17] And, you know, sh swap war stories and, and things like that. And you, you get to talk about it and process it with those guys. And you know, there’s, there’s no internet back then where you just hop on Facebook and, you know, start chatting with other people or, you know, anything like that. So if whoever you’re gonna talk to, they’re sitting right there.

[00:38:34] They’re probably in the, you know, the bunk right next to you or they’re, they’re in that same general vicinity and, and you just got to. Decompress in kind of a safe area where, you know, you don’t ha you don’t have to worry about bullets flying over your head. And, and you can, you can just sit there and let it all out if you need to.

[00:38:54] And you know, I know, I know for me, I, I was one of those guys who by the time I got [00:39:00] there I had been in combat the day before and it was, it was like,

[00:39:05] like this is a complete night and day difference and,

[00:39:09] And I was home the next day, like home, home, like at my house the next day. And, and it was like, my God, what a difference from

[00:39:20] literally not knowing what was gonna happen one day to, you know, a day and a half, two days later, I in my own bed and

[00:39:29] Tony Kessel: Yeah.

[00:39:29] Scott DeLuzio: like safe and don’t have to worry about anything more than anyone else has to worry about.

[00:39:35] Here in the States, like generally you can go walk outside and you’re not worried about someone coming up and blowing you up or shooting you or. Like that, you know, for the, for the most part. Like, you’re, you’re pretty safe here.

[00:39:45] But my God, like, what a difference. And you know, it, sometimes it’s hard to just turn that off and, and when you get here that quickly, I mean, I, I didn’t have it turned off.

[00:39:57] I, my, I was still head on a, on a swivel and I was, [00:40:00] I was looking out for, for things all over the place. You know, when I first got back and, and it’s, it’s hard, it was hard to turn that off and learn that it’s okay. But when you’re, when you’re sitting on a ship for a few weeks. You know, you kind of learn, Hey, this,

[00:40:13] Tony Kessel: Yeah.

[00:40:13] Scott DeLuzio: is safe.

[00:40:13] I’m, I’m with the people who kept me safe, and I I can, I can be okay here. And you know, maybe by the time you get home, you, you learn to turn some of that off and so, so you can get back into the world and into society and not be, you know, that, that guy from the five finger death punch video that you were talking about and just, you know, constantly on, on alert, you know.

[00:40:37] Tony Kessel: yeah, yeah. it’s

[00:40:39] Scott DeLuzio: So.

[00:40:39] Tony Kessel: to believe that you, you were like. Two days. And, and I heard those stories and you could feel it. I, I saw this E four just walking. He had a, he had a weapon and a thousand yards stare. and he didn’t, he didn’t look well. So I approached him. I was the first lieutenant at the time, and, and I walked up to him.

[00:40:57] I was like, Hey, man, you okay? And he like, at that point in time, he’s [00:41:00] like, oh crap, I’m face to face with an officer. So like, I was like, no, no, no. I don’t, I don’t want you to salute, man. Like, are you okay?

[00:41:06] he’s like, he couldn’t explain it, but I was like, I know

[00:41:09] exactly. a non-combat guy, I was like, I know exactly what’s running through your head right now.

[00:41:15] And that’s, he didn’t have to vocalize that. It was the same shared lived experience, but it was something, and it’s, it’s hard to imagine that that guy was having to make a decision as to whether to pull the, the trigger of a weapon to end somebody’s life.

[00:41:29] 24 hours ago to 24 hours later to be like,

[00:41:33] what kind of ice cream do you want?

[00:41:34] You know, like

[00:41:35] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:41:36] Tony Kessel: trivial those two

[00:41:37] decisions are in balance. And then

[00:41:40] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:41:40] Tony Kessel: like,

[00:41:40] okay. You know, I don’t know if you heard

[00:41:43] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:41:43] Tony Kessel: the, com comedian Pete Holmes, but he’s like, we have to walk around and, and talk about like, you know, balance a life and death and just pretend like we’re

[00:41:52] normal, you know, and be like, I’m not thinking about this while I’m

[00:41:55] trying to place my ice cream order.

[00:41:57] You know?

[00:41:57] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:41:58] Tony Kessel: Again, it’s just that [00:42:00] dynamic of even just being in a non-combat situation when you’ve grown up in America your whole life you’re in a a third world foreign country, and now you’re like, man, like the things that we take for granted as like in America, like I didn’t have a cell phone, and I’m like, why do we have this thing?

[00:42:19] Why are we tethered to this device that just like. The, the concept of homelessness amongst veterans ran crystal clear. I was like, why do we own so much stuff? Everything I own fits in a, a fricking duffle bag. I have six hoed sweatshirts, a couple army uniforms, a laptop computer, and a notebook other things, like, why do we have all this crap? Like, you start to really ponder what life is like. You know,

[00:42:48] it’s awesome. not doubting what

[00:42:51] life in America’s like, but you are like, man,

[00:42:53] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:42:54] Tony Kessel: like, do we really even appreciate what we’ve obtained through the freedoms that we have [00:43:00] that those ponders are, those questions is just so difficult to, to come back

[00:43:06] and be like, oh yeah, yeah, totally.

[00:43:08] This

[00:43:09] is what we’re

[00:43:09] gonna do now, you know, it, it’s, it’s a hard

[00:43:11] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:43:12] Tony Kessel: corner to turn.

[00:43:14] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I mean the, the way I, I

[00:43:16] have described Afghanistan was, it, it reminded me of what I would imagine biblical times were with the addition of cars, cell phones and AK 40 sevens, and that, that’s pretty much, you add those in. It’s basically biblical times and, and the way they live the way they, they.

[00:43:34] Dress even. It just seems to me like that it would be very much similar to way back then, 2000 some odd years ago. Like, like really not much has changed over there. And I know I, I know it’s a overly simplistic view of things, but but when you look at it, it’s like they. They’re living life and they’re, they don’t need all that stuff that, that we have.

[00:43:57] And yeah, sure. Don’t get me wrong, [00:44:00] I, I love the stuff that we have, you know, the, the comforts of home and, and the things that we have. But you know, there, there are so many people, and open up my eyes to this, that so many people around the world who don’t have any of that or, or not even a fraction of what we have and.

[00:44:17] I mean,

[00:44:18] for them, they’re, they’re happy. I’ve actually talked to a guy who is from Afghanistan, came to the United States, and he said he hates it here because he’s, he’s working constantly trying to, just to afford basic things and, and he’s, he’s just. He can’t live on the type of money that he would make back home in, in Afghanistan.

[00:44:38] But he doesn’t wanna go back there either ’cause he doesn’t want to get killed. And so he, he is kind of like stuck between you know, the, the, the, the two things. And, and I guess he’s just choosing the Lester of the evils. But you know, it’s just a. Different culture, different mindset, different, different way of life.

[00:44:53] But you know, when, when you come back from a place like that it, it, it is easy to kind of get turned [00:45:00] off by, by some of the, the excess stuff that, that we that we all, enjoy here. You know, you know, to some extent anyways, I mean, we may not all enjoy, you know, social media and Facebook and, and the, the cell phones and all the other crap that, that we have.

[00:45:15] But you know, we all, we all enjoy the, the convenience and, and things that, that they, they bring. So, so going forward you know, what, what’s next for you? What, what’s coming up you know, kind of down the road in, in more, more music, another book, anything else that you might have kind of in the works.

[00:45:30] Tony Kessel: Yeah, so writing this book with these musical aspirations, I basically determined and, and I’ve been a dude trying to find a band. Some of my mental health issues as I went to college was like, I wanted to be a rock star. I joined the Army but I wanted to be a rock star. And I, I was like, man, if I, if only I had a stage, then, then I’d be happy.

[00:45:51] You know, the pursuit of happiness ultimately consumed me. And then I joined the army and a bunch of other things and things kind of took a different turn. But [00:46:00] really as I wrote this book it, it kind of. Really awakened. Like, Hey man, these musical aspirations, I’m sitting in my home studio now. This, this is not a, an awesome shift.

[00:46:12] You’d be like the excesses of American society and I’m sitting in like a, a studio with like thousands of dollars of equipment. But yeah, the, ultimately that’s what I just, I determined is life story has impact enough to write it in a book, but also artistically. I have so many songs and this, this little thing back here. I have 20 years of lyrics that I’ve, you know, been in a hurry up and wait, I’ve been sitting in a thing and I’d write it down in an Army notebook or, you know, whatever. I’m like, wow, that’s genius. I’m gonna write it down. And then just like copying it over to pages. Really what it comes down to is just having the courage to put these feelings re-gifting society, the exact thing that I was given as a consumer to be like, Hey man, maybe. When I was [00:47:00] younger I went through bouts of suicidal ideation at that time and, and I was afraid. I was like, man, what happens if I write something that pushes somebody to the edge of where I was Because I was irresponsible and consuming music the point where I got to this point. I don’t wanna be responsible for that. And, and that petrified me for three to five years. So now I’m at a place where I’m like, I’m not responsible for how people consume. What I, my story, you know, in the book I talk heavily about suicide attempts and I had three in a 48 hour period and there was a part of me that was terrified, one, to write that out.

[00:47:35] And people were like, they’re gonna think I’m crazy. Like, like, I actually teetered. That’s not acceptable. People have been to combat. Might you, you start comparing. was a part of me that’s like, man, if I put this out, and I, I don’t go into graphic detail, but I do describe it. I was like, that’s kind of irresponsible. And as I was editing the book, I was like, do I really wanna put this out? What happens if you cause somebody to tip? [00:48:00] I was like, it would be irresponsible to not tell people that there’s a chance for help. It would be irresponsible for me to live this life and to have these skill and these talents artistically and creatively. Not use them specifically in the veterans community as I’ve stepped out in courage, I, I started it, it was a suicide intervention training that really awakened that. I was like, you gotta start telling people about your suicide attempts. was a ace assist. There was this chaplain and I was like, ah, it’s a chaplain talking about how he coached these people through suicide and, you know, whatever.

[00:48:37] He is a captain. I was a captain at the time, and, and he’s like. As he’s going through the video, you’re just like, that’s his, that’s his role in this. He’s like, I’m the spiritual guy that helps you get through that. Well, at the end of the video, he admitted to suicide attempts and I was like, if this guy’s willing to risk his entire military career, his job is to talk you off the ledge when you get to that place. And he got there [00:49:00] and he’s on a video, largely publicized by the United States Army, is, get help. I need to do something with

[00:49:07] this story. And that’s, that’s really what I feel. Now, this isn’t. I, this isn’t I the desire to be a rock star. Like if I became famous, I’d be awesome, but like my desire is to link the community and to start to get people to understand that, you know, I thought I was the only person who grew up in a foster home. I didn’t know a lot of other people who did, but I thought that, I thought I was the only person that was legally adopted. I thought I was the only person who had suicidal ideation, who had a fear of abandonment. I thought I was the only one who went on and got non-combat deployment, had to leave a child behind and had these emotions.

[00:49:44] I was like, I shouldn’t feel this way. I’m the only one. I I, as I heard from that chaplain, I was like, maybe I should tell my story. And every time I do open up. I always have somebody pull me aside and be like, Hey man, I just want you to know me too. Like, I, I can’t say this publicly [00:50:00] yet, and, and I have to encourage ’em.

[00:50:02] If you’re not in that place, don’t. But I get so many people coming up to me and saying, yeah, this, that’s the way I felt. This is where I was. And in itself is why I desire to, to write and record music, to put out creative projects so that other people that pick this up. it changed one person, if it opened up somebody’s mind, if it made somebody feel the way that those songs made me feel as a child, I would be irresponsible as, as a veteran, as a soldier, a current acting, serving soldier

[00:50:39] a human being. To not share

[00:50:42] that gift with someone to, to

[00:50:44] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:50:45] Tony Kessel: understand that you’re not alone in these things, and maybe I don’t, I don’t need to understand exactly where it is that you are. The biggest thing is, that you don’t have

[00:50:56] to be alone in that and that that’s

[00:50:58] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:50:58] Tony Kessel: Because a lot [00:51:00] of times we’re afraid, they’re like, what happens if I say the wrong thing?

[00:51:03] don’t. You don’t need to say anything. They just need to

[00:51:06] talk, you just need to

[00:51:08] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:51:09] Tony Kessel: filth with

[00:51:09] them and let them know. I’m like, I can’t relate, but

[00:51:13] I’m here. will not walk away

[00:51:15] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:51:16] Tony Kessel: until you’re comfortable.

[00:51:17] Obviously if it’s a suicide intervention, you gotta get them to a

[00:51:20] place. But like sitting in

[00:51:22] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:51:23] Tony Kessel: with someone is Is huge. And that, that’s been kind of my, my plea or my honor, is ’cause you don’t always know how to reach out to a person. But I do know how to turn the dial on a stereo and be. Yeah, Ivan Moody. I see. And feel what you see and feel even a non-military

[00:51:45] veteran, like I feel that.

[00:51:46] Thanks for seeing us.

[00:51:49] So yeah.

[00:51:51] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, par partially as, as you’re talking there partially, I’m, I’m kind of reminded of why I started this show even [00:52:00] is because of several friends that I served with who took their life after coming back home. And you know, to me I was like, one was too many and then. What, whatever is going on is, is just too much.

[00:52:16] And I, I wanted to do something to give people the, the hope, the, the strength to keep moving on and not be, not be in that place. And, and, and you know, hopefully they hear a story, hear a message from somebody, whether it’s from me or for one of my guests or, or whatever on, on the show. And hopefully that’s the thing that, you know, if it, if it helps one person, then, then great.

[00:52:40] And you know, hope, hopefully it help, helps more people than that. But you ultimately, I, I do this show hoping that there comes a day that I don’t need to do this show. Because I, I hope that everybody just gets you know, all the help that they need and all the hope and encouragement and all the things, and, and we don’t have to worry about this.

[00:52:57] And the veteran suicides go down to zero, and [00:53:00] we don’t have to worry about it. I know that’s a you know, a, a ways off in the, in the future, but you know that that’s my goal. That’s what, that’s my hope is that I, I don’t have to do this because. Everybody has found their way of getting that hope and getting that peace and, and everything like that.

[00:53:15] And so, you know, and this is, this is your way of, of kind of giving it back to, to the military and the veteran communities. And I, I think it’s, it’s wonderful and I, I think everyone you know, will, will benefit from that. You know, in, in one way or another. And you know, I, I definitely appreciate everything that you’re doing.

[00:53:31] I appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks for, for, you know, coming on and sharing your story and, and everything that you’re, you’re doing. And you know, I, I, I we’ll have all the links to, you know, to the book and all, all your stuff in the, the show notes as well. So, folks can check it out and, and you know, grab a copy and and go from there.

[00:53:47] So, so thanks again for for everything that you do.

[00:53:51] Tony Kessel: I appreciate it. Thank [00:54:00] you.