Episode 553 Adam Fluegel Veteran Mental Health And Operation Overwatch Transcript

This transcript is from episode 553 with guest Adam Fluegel.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Has there ever been a moment where you look around your civilian job and think to yourself, I just don’t belong here at all. You’re going to work. You’re providing for your family, maybe even climbing the ladder, but inside you still feel like you’re back overseas waiting for something to blow, and you really can’t turn to anybody in the break room to tell them how you really feel.

[00:00:19] Now, imagine you’re the medic. And a truck gets hit by an IED and you lose one of your own. The very first time that you’re called to do your job overseas, you’re dragging that guilt home. You start numbing it with pills and booze and pushing harder at work because that’s the one place that you still know how to perform until.

[00:00:43] The meds, the stress, the pain team up, and you find yourself in a psych ward and later you find yourself in a dark room with a handgun deciding whether your kids should grow up without a dad. In this conversation with Army Combat Medic and veteran [00:01:00] Adam Flugel, we walked through that night, the tiny thought that made him put the gun down, and how he slowly pulled the thread on buried memories.

[00:01:09] And why he is now building Operation Overwatch. So no veteran has to feel alone in their hometown. Again, if you have ever felt guilty for surviving, tired of pretending that you’re fine at work or at home, or hungry for Veteran Connection and PTSD support, that actually seems to understand combat stress and.

[00:01:33] The things that you actually went through. You’re gonna wanna stick around for this episode. But before we begin, I want to take a moment to raise awareness for something that’s deeply important to our community. The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism.

[00:01:55] This memorial will be both a tribute to those who served. [00:02:00] And a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT Memorial Foundation do org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

[00:02:26] Hey, Adam, welcome to the show. I’m really glad to have you here. Looking forward to this this conversation.

[00:02:32] Adam Fluegel: Thanks. Thanks for having me. I really do appreciate it. Yeah.

[00:02:35] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you bet. For the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with you and, and your background and everything could you give us a little background about who you are kind of military background, all that kind of stuff, and, and you know, kind of what led you to where you’re today.

[00:02:48] Adam Fluegel: Yeah, so, so, basically, 2000, the end of 2001. You know, it was after nine 11. Me and my roommate were kind of wasting our time in college. You know, we, we [00:03:00] didn’t, we weren’t super ambitious. We didn’t have everything planned out like many people do. And he just kind of came up with one day he is like, we need to do something with our lives, you know?

[00:03:10] And so we started talking about that and we ended up. Going and talking to a recruiter. And we wanted, we were gonna join the military together and go through this whole buddy system. And it turns out because of all the fun I had in college I had, I had one too many misdemeanors on my record and I couldn’t even get in to the Army.

[00:03:33] And I was like, wow, that’s rough. So. As it happened, he my buddy, my best friend, ended up going I stayed back. enough, my mom called me and she’s like, Adam, hey, they changed the laws. You can get in now. And so this, I was like, thanks, mom. But so this was, I didn’t leave for basic until April of [00:04:00] 2002. And before I left. You know, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And so I scored really good on my asvab and he kinda asked me like, Hey, what do you want to do? And so when I, when I was at the recruiters after my score, and I was like, I was like, I don’t, I don’t really have like a, a specific role I want to do.

[00:04:19] I was like, what do you guys need? And the recruiter said me, he said, we really need combat medics. Like really bad. Or medics or whatever they said

[00:04:28] at the time. And I was like, perfect, now sign me up. And so I went through all that basic a IT I ended up being stationed at Fort Drum New York, so 10th Mountain Division. I was with two 15 which is Field Artillery Unit that I was attached to. So I was a line medic for them. And so yeah, that’s kinda. Where my military career began as a, as a 22-year-old. Sorry, what was the, what was the [00:05:00] rest of it?

[00:05:00] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no, just trying to get, just get an idea, you know, for the listeners, just get an idea who, who you are and, and kind of, kind of your, your, your background and stuff like that. And it’s you know, just interesting to, to me anyways, I, you know, I don’t, I don’t know if everyone has the same interest, but it’s interesting to me.

[00:05:15] It’s just to kind of see the, the path that folks take to get into the military. You know, some people join for. The college money, some people join because they don’t, they don’t feel like they have any prospects in, in life and they just wanna get out of a bad situation that they’re in. Or some people just wanna serve their country and you know, there’s all

[00:05:33] Adam Fluegel: so great about it.

[00:05:34] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:05:34] Yeah. The all, all sorts of different reasons. And, and none of them are, none of ’em are bad reasons, right. And they’re all, they’re all, they’re all you know, equally valid reasons. And, and so when you kinda just hear the, the person’s background, it kinda helps kinda shape the rest of the conversation.

[00:05:52] I, I feel, anyways.

[00:05:53] Adam Fluegel: For sure.

[00:05:53] Scott DeLuzio: and, and so, so you’re in, you’re in, you, you became you know, combat medic any deployments or anything [00:06:00] like that along the way.

[00:06:01] Adam Fluegel: So I was deployed from, I, I served from 2002 to 2006. And I, I only had one deployment because I, when I got out my unit got orders to go onto another one. But I was in Baghdad from June of oh four to June of oh five. So we were there for the first elections basically

[00:06:27] there, the Iraqi elections.

[00:06:28] So that was pretty, pretty wild stuff.

[00:06:31] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think for anyone who has deployed, they, they can probably attest to this, you know, o one’s enough, you know, you don’t,

[00:06:43] Adam Fluegel: It was, it was. It was.

[00:06:45] one was plenty for me.

[00:06:47] Scott DeLuzio: yeah, right. Exactly. So. You get out 2006 you said, right? And, and transition from, you know, military to civilian life. A lot of times folks have a, a difficult time with that, that could be pretty [00:07:00] challenging.

[00:07:00] How did that look for you? How did you kind of navigate those post-service years and you know, what, what did you end up doing? Did you have kind of tough time with that transition, or how did that work out for you?

[00:07:12] Adam Fluegel: Right. I had, I didn’t have a tough time working, getting right to work. My plan was. When I, when I got back, I was supposed to go like Firefighter Academy. I was gonna go because of my medical training, I was gonna do firefighter paramedic.

[00:07:31] It just made sense, you know, with the experience that I gained. And but, you know, I still gotta pay bills. And there wasn’t a class that was open, you know, I was, I came home to a, a family and and so I start, I got a job right away. I literally, I got. I got home on a Friday. I drove back to New York, got home on a Friday and started a new job the following Monday, like it was already

[00:07:57] Scott DeLuzio: Oh wow.

[00:07:58] Adam Fluegel: up. So there was like [00:08:00] no, no chill time. It was like, get right to it.

[00:08:03] And so yeah, so I started doing this. I got a job doing like shipping and receiving as a stainless steels job where they have welding and all that kind of stuff. So I was just doing, basically I was running the shipping receiving department and, you know, it was crazy.

[00:08:19] I, how easy and calm it was. There was no, there wasn’t any chaos like it was, you know, all these experiences and stuff that I had thought I wanted to go continue to do that kind of stuff. And I realized, I was like, I kind of like this. I don’t have to worry about, you know, like saving somebody’s life

[00:08:46] for or, or not, you know?

[00:08:48] And, and I, I mean, I kind of made the decision real quick. I was like, I’m, I’m gonna stay here and kind of work my way up. And that’s just what I kind of did. It was the [00:09:00] struggle for me. It wasn’t the word I could, I was successful at work.

[00:09:05] The problem for me was the personal side. You know, I had, I battled so many demons that I just kinda lost, you know, like, I mean, like so many, it’s, it’s nothing new.

[00:09:17] It’s, we come back and we’re just lost. Like we lost that, lost that camaraderie that you know, your brothers, sisters, and, you know, you just kind of move into the civilian world. You’re just trying to work, just trying to support your family or yourself or whatever, and it just becomes your new normal. But like deep inside, you’re, you’re struggling, you know, you just, you put everything into work because you can.

[00:09:47] Scott DeLuzio: Right. And it’s almost like that, that’s like one thing you, you can control you know, like. How much time and effort you put into a, a job or, or maybe at school for some people or, or whatever [00:10:00] you, you can just kind of bury yourself in that and and kind of block out the rest of the world, other responsibilities or relationships or things like that.

[00:10:07] Just, you know, the hell with them and, and just kind of focus on that because you can, you can control how much time and effort you put into that stuff, right? Yeah.

[00:10:16] Adam Fluegel: Yeah,

[00:10:17] that’s exactly what it’s,

[00:10:18] Scott DeLuzio: So going, going through that, that kind of difficulty again, it, it’s something that I, I’ve heard from a lot of people is they they miss that comradery.

[00:10:28] They miss the you know, the folks that they served with and they, they just miss that kind of sense of belonging and, and that feeling that they get when they’re, they’re with those people and. When you get out, you almost feel like you can’t relate necessarily with the people that you’re working with in a, a civilian job, unless there’s other veterans there who maybe you, you, you chat with, right?

[00:10:53] But oftentimes there there’s not, or you know, maybe there’s only like one or two or something like that, and it’s, it’s not like a big group of [00:11:00] you guys that, that can get together you know, depending on the, the company, right? But it, it, it’s hard sometimes when you have. Just yourself and I mean, not everyone gets it.

[00:11:13] No, not everyone gets the, the other, the, the veterans and kind of like your just the way you are or, you know.

[00:11:20] Adam Fluegel: I didn’t realize it at the time. I didn’t realize that that’s what was missing was, was that connection. And it just, it took me a while. Like, I mean, I did, I went to the va, I did the, you know, got into therapy and I was, I was working towards healing and doing, you know, being a dad and a husband and, you know, family stuff.

[00:11:44] And, but it was, I felt broken because. It didn’t feel like everybody else, you know, I can’t, you know, people like you say not being around other veterans, but, [00:12:00] but trying to kind of be in that in the world with everybody else. And, you know, they, people find out you’re a veteran and, you know, start asking questions of course.

[00:12:10] And you know, and they’re, he, for me personally, it was like. I didn’t want to because I’ve made the mistake of oversharing. Some experiences

[00:12:22] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:12:23] Adam Fluegel: just get this look back, like, okay, wow. Yeah. And so I, it kind of makes you shut down a little bit. Whereas when you’re with other veterans, I mean, like, I, I, recently, this year I got to I got to do my reunion with my old military unit. So me and my wife went up to New York and there was a big turnout. There was like 80 of us there

[00:12:47] from the old unit. I’ve seen these guys 20 years, and you you just pick right up where you left off. I love it.

[00:12:55] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. I actually had something similar this year as [00:13:00] well. It wasn’t a classical reunion kind kind of situation. It was unfortunately one of the guys that I served with had, had passed away. So there’s like a, you know, a service thing like that, kind of a remembrance kind of thing. And, and so there’s a bunch of us who got together.

[00:13:14] It wasn’t quite as big as what you, you were describing, but you know, we got together and of the guys who were there, we kind of just picked up where we left off. And it, and it’s kind of cool like that. It doesn’t matter how long it’s been, it’s for us, it’s been fif 15 ish years or so since, since we deployed.

[00:13:29] And you know, it, it, it was, it. Just like old times. I mean, yeah, I’m sure we, we were, a lot of us started families, got married, had kids and, and things like that that we didn’t have before. So we kind of got to catch up on, on those types of things. But you know, it, it was cool, you know, to be able to get together and see, see each other.

[00:13:48] Adam Fluegel: So easy.

[00:13:49] Scott DeLuzio: it, it is and it makes it feel so easy. But when. You think, like you go into a civilian workforce? I, I know this was me after coming back from [00:14:00] Afghanistan, going into a, my, my civilian job. I felt like I, I just didn’t belong there. You know, like I, and, and some of the questions that, that people might ask you you almost feel like you have to be at, put on a different persona.

[00:14:13] Like, almost like you’re just being fake as, as you’re going in there, like you’re acting, you know?

[00:14:18] Adam Fluegel: That is the perfect, the perfect analogy is it you are, you’re, you’re acting, you’re, you’re being fake.

[00:14:25] Honestly. It’s, and it’s, it’s almost like it’s more for them than it is for you

[00:14:31] Scott DeLuzio: Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:32] Adam Fluegel: you know what I mean? Because it makes it easier. Because it, you, if they can see how you really feel, then you’ll get asked even more questions and it goes on and on

[00:14:41] and on. And it was like,

[00:14:44] I’m just trying to get my job done here.

[00:14:46] Scott DeLuzio: And, and if you say what’s really on your mind, you’re gonna get some looks, you know?

[00:14:50] Adam Fluegel: me.

[00:14:51] Scott DeLuzio: So going through all of this in your own life you know, how, how did you kind of cope with this and deal with [00:15:00] this? You know, did, did you you know, reach out for help? Did you kind of get involved with other veteran organizations, or, or how did you decide to kind of cope with that?

[00:15:09] Adam Fluegel: So, you know, for me. It, it took a while to cope with it successfully, I should say. You know, I, I drank a lot. You know, this was, this was back when, you know, I’m getting hydrocodone pills mailed to my house and bottles for my back and my knees and all this stuff, and it was just, it was easier to use that than to really. Face the things that were going on deep inside. You know, I, my and I, you may already be planning on asking about experiences, but it’s like, for me, this is a perfect time to explain

[00:15:52] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:15:53] Adam Fluegel: why I struggled so much and you know, you’re all of us. I mean, we’re [00:16:00] kids. We’re kids going. Over into this hostile environments and, you know, doing unspeakable thing, or not doing unspeakable things, but dealing with unspeakable things. And like for me, you know, I was, I’ve never been like I don’t know what you would call like a big gun PO type guy. Like, I’m always pretty quiet and reserved and nervous, you know? And so. For me being a medic we did, I think we did. So I was attached to a platoon, you know, 22 guys, whatever, typically four trucks, and we would just do combat patrols. And you know, my very first experience as a medic was really like, it was just, we had a truck get hit by an IED. I. I, I’ve done training, you know, I’ve done, I’ve worked on dummies. I’ve we’ve done training exercises on actual soldiers, but it’s not real. Like it’s, [00:17:00] it’s all pretend and it’s just a training. so literally the very first thing that happened to my group of guys was, it was a really bad one. And for me as the medic. Proving to them that I’m capable and all this stuff. And it was just a nightmare scenario. So it we ended up losing him. He

[00:17:26] didn’t, he didn’t make it. And, you know, it’s one thing, it’s one thing when you’re, it’s a paramedic or in a hospital, you know, you’re treating patients, you know what I mean?

[00:17:37] That, and I don’t make the, I don’t make light of that. Like

[00:17:40] that’s hard. You know, if you lose a patient but to lose a friend, you know, a brother, that’s a different, it’s like a different level. And that crushed me ’cause that was my first thing. So coming back to, [00:18:00] you know, me dealing when I got back that it took a while to figure out that was the one. The one thing that was really at the root of all of my issues was that that failure, like not,

[00:18:14] not being able to save him, and that is what led to all of the, the issues with, you know, drinking and just isolating. And that’s what made it harder to really feel through all this stuff because it took me a while to actually admit. And say it out loud, like how I felt about that experience, if that

[00:18:40] makes sense.

[00:18:41] Scott DeLuzio: Oh yeah, no, absolutely. And, and it makes sense what you’re saying too. And again, not to make light of, you know, the paramedics or doctors or anything like that around here, but it, it makes sense because those people work on a patient and where that person lives or, or passes away from whatever [00:19:00] it is that they’re, they’re being worked on that that doctor or paramedic or, or whoever they.

[00:19:06] Move on to the next person and that they have to just go help that next person. And yeah, sure, they may go give a, a notification to a family member, sorry, you know, this person didn’t make it, or, or something like that. But they’re not hanging out with those people day after day after day. Whereas someone like yourself, not only did you lose a friend, but everybody that you lived and worked with for the remainder of that year that you were over there.

[00:19:35] They lost a friend too, and you’re around those same people, and it’s not like you can even put that outta your mind because all of those people are, they’re thinking the same thing. Like, man, this sucks, this person’s gone. And, you know, whatever. They’re, they’re, they’re sad, they’re upset, they’re having all the, the emotions and you don’t get a break from that.

[00:19:53] And yeah, sure, a doctor might feel the same way after losing a patient. But. Hey, you know what? [00:20:00] We gotta, we gotta move on. And we got another patient to go work on too. And not to say that you maybe didn’t have another you know, soldier that needed help too, but you know, that that doctor is like immediately thrown into that next thing, and they don’t have, they don’t have time to sit in, in ruminate on it with the family, with the loved ones of that person.

[00:20:19] You know, unlike, unlike what you had to deal with, and it seems like, you know.

[00:20:23] Adam Fluegel: And, and what was, what was wild is the day it happened, it was actually it was New Year’s Day when the incident happened and I, I was not, I don’t care about this, but I explaining it, I was supposed to be, apparently I was supposed to be promoted to sergeant that day and I didn’t, I didn’t know that that was my effective date. Which didn’t matter except for when I get promoted to an NCO, I have to leave the group that I’m with, the platoon that I was with and go to HQ and basically be the medic for [00:21:00] the commander’s convoy. So the battalion commander, you know, Sergeant May doing that. And so they didn’t tell me that right away because it. They actually gave us a couple days off to kind of get our heads right and to do a service and all that stuff. And and then kind eventually they’re like, Hey you know, you got promoted, you need to move to battalion now.

[00:21:22] Scott DeLuzio: Oh wow. Yeah.

[00:21:23] Adam Fluegel: And I was like, I was like this, like you’ve been with these guys this whole time. We just lost our guy. I was like, I can’t believe, like, I just can’t, it doesn’t make sense to me.

[00:21:39] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:21:40] Adam Fluegel: And so, so they ended up they gave me some time be I refuse to move, is what I did. But they gave me some time so that, you know, we can kind of get back in our groove and, you know, so the guys can see we’re all right, everything’s good. We’re still doing our jobs. And then eventually I had to, I [00:22:00] move and they brought a different medic over there. But yeah, that was, that was pretty wild, just the timing of it.

[00:22:06] But I’m glad they let me stay a little bit longer just, just for the guys, you know what I mean? I, I just didn’t sit right,

[00:22:13] Scott DeLuzio: That’s true too. Yeah. I mean, they, they just lost somebody. You just lost somebody and then to lose somebody else. I mean, not, not forever you know, in the same way. But, you know, it, it, it shakes up the whole dynamic of, of the, the platoon, the whole group that you’re, you’re with and, you know, dealing with a new guy coming in for, you know, that platoon who.

[00:22:35] Didn’t experience that, that that could be hard too. And you know

[00:22:38] Adam Fluegel: would be, yeah, it’d be even harder for them.

[00:22:40] Scott DeLuzio: right, right. Because I, I don’t know. You, I don’t trust you yet. You know, I, I don’t, I didn’t train with you. I don’t, I don’t even know who you are. Maybe. And, you know, maybe they did. I don’t know. But you know, it, it could just be a you know, a difficult dynamic there too.

[00:22:53] There’s, there’s, there’s no good answers there. I don’t thinks all around.[00:23:00]

[00:23:00] Adam Fluegel: It is,

[00:23:01] Scott DeLuzio: It, it is what it is. So, so eventually you kind of, kind of worked your way through this, right? And you know, how did that look? How did you kind of have that, that moment? Was that moment like you know, a revelation, Hey, I need to straighten up here, or, you know, what, what did that look like for you?

[00:23:21] Adam Fluegel: You know, I had had, I’d had some success in, in healing. I didn’t know what I was really still missing, and I, I didn’t, I had worked through a lot of that stuff but I’m trying to remember when it was. Anyways, I, I was kind of on the right path and everything was doing well. Had done so much therapy, you know, writing about stuff and, you know, talking about stuff with my then, you know, wife, she helped me through a lot of this stuff. And then honestly, I, [00:24:00] I had, I stopped going to the VA for a little bit and I started going into the private sector.

[00:24:08] You know, this was, I mean, PTSD, it’s like there’s no magic. Medicine, like everybody’s different. And even medication wise, it’s, I mean, it’s kind of a bandaid, like it, it can

[00:24:23] help.

[00:24:24] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I look at, I look at the medications for, for stuff like that as almost like a, and I, I don’t, I don’t mean this in a negative way, but almost like a crutch, kind of like if you broke your leg and you can’t walk on that leg without the use of crutches to. To help you kind of move along. You’re not putting weight on it, but you use the crutches to help you get along.

[00:24:45] You only need those temporarily until that leg heals and then you’re able to, you know, go back and use the leg and, and do whatever you need to do. But it’s, it’s kind of like, the way I see it anyways is the medication helps get you over that. That hump so that maybe the therapy can start working or [00:25:00] maybe whatever else it is that you’re doing can, can start having some sort of effect.

[00:25:04] And then at some point, you know, hopefully down the line you don’t need that medication anymore. But it, it just kind of helps take that edge off maybe.

[00:25:10] Adam Fluegel: It does. It

[00:25:11] does. And it did, it did help to an extent. You know, it helped to an extent. And then I, but then I, I stopped doing the, you know, therapy and I, I just focused on what medicine can help me and all like,

[00:25:26] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:25:26] Adam Fluegel: and it, it’s, what’s weird is it was. It felt like, at least back then, the, the p the symptoms from PTSD were so close to like a DD symptoms. Just, I mean just, and so that’s kind of what this guy did. He was like, we’re gonna treat the symptoms and, but you know, he put me on Adderall and I was on Adderall for a while along with just depression, anxiety, meds, and I was doing. So this was 20 16, 20 [00:26:00] 15. Really? I was on medication. I thought I was good.

[00:26:03] I was also on a mood stabilizer and I was, I was at that point where I’m like, man, I’m doing so good. Don’t, don’t feel like I need all this. You, you know? So we started looking at medicines we could take away and. The one that we took away was a mood stabilizer. And I didn’t realize it at the time, but I guess I thought everything was okay because that was kind of doing its job anyways over time between stopped taking that, staying on way too much Adderall, which I didn’t know at the time I was being overprescribed. And just being, I started getting real careless and, like spending money I didn’t have. And it was like I was trying to feed this, fill this void with other things and it, it just kept spiraling. And I didn’t realize it at the time, like I didn’t really see it. [00:27:00] I was just trying to be happy. Like I was looking for something to make me happy and you know, it just kept going and going and it was like, I need one more thing and one more thing and one more thing. I mean, we’re broke, like, you know, we’re living paycheck to paycheck. And I’m having issues like marital issues at the time. But I ended up like talking to someone else, like I stepped outside of my marriage, which I’ve never even done that in a relationship with a girlfriend

[00:27:36] and.

[00:27:36] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:27:38] Adam Fluegel: So it just got worse and worse and worse and, you know, all came to a head. And you know, the marriage, the family kind of blew up and we kept working through stuff. But later on into 2016, I’m still on all this Adderall and. [00:28:00] I’m taking on a new role at work, and I’m sorry I, it sounds like I’m going off onto this tangent, but I’ll, it’ll get me to where I’m

[00:28:08] got better eventually. So I was working full-time. I was trying to get my degree in my spare time. I, my home life was miserable just because of everything that had happened and. I was asked if I wanted to volunteer to do like another gig at work. Getting into just a different department and helping them out ’cause they were shorthanded.

[00:28:38] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:28:39] Adam Fluegel: And me just, I can always work. I can always work. Like throw it all at me. I can, I can keep working. And so I volunteered to do it and I threw myself into that and it ended up being like. It was, it was really hard. It was kind of turned into like 14 hour days and then trying to get my school done on the weekends[00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:29:00] Adam Fluegel: and, hey, I got that Adderall, it’s keeping me, it’s keeping me going.

[00:29:05] It’s keeping me going. And eventually it, I don’t know what it was. I mean, it was a combination of all the stress. I wasn’t taking care of myself, I wasn’t eating enough, you know, too much medication. That I didn’t know. And then I started getting really paranoid, right? So I’ve never experienced that before.

[00:29:30] Like it starts with little small things and then it would build and build and build and the next thing you know, I’m thinking that I’m being followed by black SUVs and it made no sense whatsoever.

[00:29:47] But you don’t, I’m so like. I worked up about everything that’s going on that I don’t realize what’s going on, and so [00:30:00] I finally, I started like, you know, this my job, you can always count on your job.

[00:30:06] That mission, I started like not calling in. I was so exhausted. That I wouldn’t even get up in the morning and like they would have to call me and be like, Hey, is just checking in. Are you coming in? Never nothing like that. I’ve never been like that. so I finally, I, I go in and my boss, you know, called me into his office and he is like, Hey, we need to like, give you some time off to, you know, figure out what’s going on.

[00:30:37] Because I think people had had seen my a little bit of my paranoia and stuff that you can only Hide so much.

[00:30:42] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah.

[00:30:43] Adam Fluegel: And so I think it was starting to be known that there was something off with me. And so, so yeah. So I had to be put on FMLA and that, that was early in the morning when he gave me the news and I was driving back home, [00:31:00] and the whole rest of that day, he got worse and worse and worse.

[00:31:04] By the end of that evening, I had to go check myself into a psychiatric ward. So I, I literally had to, I, I even realized how crazy it I was, and it, it was like I have to do something.

[00:31:23] That, that was my, that was my turning point because for one, I finally admitted it. I’m not okay. Even though it sucks that it took all of that

[00:31:40] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:31:41] Adam Fluegel: to get there. And so when I go in my brother drove me. My, my mom drove up and my brother took me in to the hospital and checked in. And they initially, like they wanted to see my medications, I brought all my medications and everything, and they immediately stopped [00:32:00] a, like they. They looked at all my medicines and was like, okay, this needs to stop. Well, yeah, come to find out that that doctor ended up losing his license

[00:32:10] because he was, he was over prescribing medications and, but it was almost like a blessing in disguise because. I don’t know if that wouldn’t have happened. I don’t know how long I would’ve gone on pretending and pretending and just trying to live life.

[00:32:29] And so, yeah, so I was there. I spent a week there and you know, got all the meds outta my system got me to a new doctor and tried to kind of rework that part of it. And I was so depressed, like I missed two months of work. And that’s like unheard. And so I say that was the, my bottom. I was that depressed that I I, I saw everything that I had caused, [00:33:00] like in my family running from the pain and the, from all the stuff. And so that’s, I haven’t quite hit bottom yet, apparently to give it a different kind of bottom because. I hated myself because I was conscious now, like I could see everything clearly. I, I wasn’t, you know, struggling like

[00:33:22] paranoia with all that. Like I could finally look back and just see this weight of disaster that I had cost and I couldn’t do it. Like I was so upset. And, and that’s when. I decided that I couldn’t be here anymore and so, you know, the early morning hours everybody was asleep. I went and got my nine mil out of the safe and I went and locked myself in [00:34:00] another room and decided that I was done and that. I and I, I went through the whole moat and it, it was happening. And, but then I just, I pictured my girls, you know, my little girls and I’m like, what would this do to them? Like, I’m not, I’m not afraid, but what is this gonna do to their lives

[00:34:31] if, if I do this to myself? And that was the decision. That was the only decision that I can’t do this. And so I say that was my turning point before, that was my real, that was my real rock bottom where I

[00:34:48] can’t go any lower than this.

[00:34:50] And when you make that, when you make that decision, I’m gonna live no matter what. It does change your outlook.[00:35:00]

[00:35:00] it it changes your perspective to where. I’m not just trying to live day by day or get by or do the bare minimum. It’s like this was, this was close, like this was, this was, this was permanent. Like this would’ve wrecked lives and ended mine

[00:35:24] and it, you get like this motivation to get to the root cause of stuff.

[00:35:33] And that, and that was when, okay. I started putting the work in and, and I mean, I detailed writing down experiences and stuff and looking at teeny tiny details. I think that was probably the most beneficial thing.

[00:35:53] Use the medicine if you need it to, like a crutch, like

[00:35:57] you said, like a crutch. [00:36:00] But it’s like you don’t have to work through that stuff that you don’t want to face and you don’t wanna work through. And I feel like that makes all the difference. And what’s crazy, the crazy thing is, is I had all this stuff buried down so deep that I, when I started unlocking memories, when, when I would, I would get one experience down on paper and work through it. I remembered something that was like horrible that I hadn’t thought about since, like, since Iraq.

[00:36:34] And I’m like, how did I not remember this? Like I went going face to face with this, this guy that I was alone and he probably would’ve killed me. And I almost shot him. Like, that’s a big thing. How do I, how do I not remember that?

[00:36:48] And so it’s, it just, it starts unlocking all these things and it’s, it’s. You just build from there and you just, and you just don’t give up. You know? You just don’t give up.

[00:36:58] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And [00:37:00] so a couple things there that, that you said is you know, you don’t want to give up, right? Because the, the pain that would cause the, those loved ones like, you know, your kids and you know, other, other folks that, that, that care about you, they would cause a lot of pain to them and. I know you think about like everybody that, that you know, everybody that you, you care for, you would do.

[00:37:24] I’m, I’m speaking for you, but I’m, I’m just imagining through this conversation I can kind of imagine that this is probably true. Correct me if I’m wrong though, but you would probably do anything in your power to not hurt those people or not. Have those people get hurt. In, in any way, shape or form.

[00:37:41] And I know that that’s a lot of people. It’s especially in the, the veteran world. You know, we come from a a job where we were the protectors or the providers or the, the caregiver in, in a medic sense, you know, like the, the person who looks out for other people. And the last thing we wanna do is go and hurt people, [00:38:00] especially the people that we care about.

[00:38:01] Yeah, sure, we’ll, we’ll go and hurt people, but they’re, those are the bad guys, you know? So,

[00:38:05] Adam Fluegel: This is the magnet.

[00:38:05] Scott DeLuzio: so we’re not, but, but. We don’t look at our, our family, our kids, our, our, you know, other loved ones. We don’t, we don’t look at those people as, as the bad guy. We look at those as, as the good guys and, and just like the guys that you serve with in that, that platoon or other, other folks that you serve with, you’re gonna do what you can to protect them and, and you know, yeah, maybe, maybe you’re not always gonna be a hundred percent successful, but you’re, you’re gonna do your, your, your best to make sure that, that you give it.

[00:38:31] A hundred percent you know, with, with those people. And you know, same thing when you, when you come back home is, is all these people are relying on you to be there. And it would, it would destroy them if you weren’t, you know, and and that, that kind of thing, like, that kind of mindset is, is maybe just what you need to, to get past whatever tough thing that you might be going through.

[00:38:54] You know, that dark time. Those dark thoughts that are going through your head. You know, just [00:39:00] picturing those people the next day, waking up without you. And it’s like, how, how could you, how could you do that to somebody? And, and that’s, that’s kind of the mindset. I think a lot of people need to just run through their head if they’re in that place where they’re, they’re at that rock bottom moment.

[00:39:15] You know, just, just think of all the people who would, who would be absolutely destroyed if, if you weren’t here.

[00:39:22] Adam Fluegel: Just have that, like one thing. If you just have that one thing that’s worth holding. ’cause that’s probably one of the, the biggest issues we have with veteran suicide is not everybody has a family

[00:39:37] that they get to come home to. You know, a lot of these, you know, guys, girls, whatever, it maybe they’re, it’s just them.

[00:39:44] Like they’re

[00:39:44] just on their own supporting themselves and maybe. Maybe they don’t feel like anybody would miss ’em because they don’t feel like they have that in their life,

[00:39:55] Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and so in, in those kind of cases, I, and I agree, there are definitely [00:40:00] people out there who, you know, they don’t have kids, they don’t have a spouse, they don’t have, you know, any close family or any relatives that, that they are, are close with. But with tho those people find that thing, whatever it is.

[00:40:11] Maybe it’s, maybe it’s a volunteer thing. Maybe it, maybe it is your work, maybe it is. It’s something that you do. Yeah, exactly. You know, anything, you know, get, get, yeah. Get a dog, get a, get. Get something in your life that you’re gonna wake up

[00:40:26] Adam Fluegel: that relies, like something that, you know, relies on you.

[00:40:29] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:40:30] Adam Fluegel: you, you almost need like that, that responsibility towards something.

[00:40:34] And, and I’ve seen that with, you know, you see a lot with veterans and getting these you know, therapy dogs.

[00:40:39] Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah.

[00:40:40] Adam Fluegel: it, changes everything. it changes everything.

[00:40:43] Scott DeLuzio: It is a game changer. I, I’ve known some people who have you know, therapy dogs and they or, or service dogs or whatever whatever they have. And it’s, it is a game changer for some of those people. And it’s like, I, you know, I, I was, I was ready to check out, you know, I, I, I didn’t, you know, and then, and then they, they get that dog and then they’re [00:41:00] like, you know what, that dog’s, that dog’s everything to me.

[00:41:04] And

[00:41:04] Adam Fluegel: This dog understands me more than all these humans out there. You know what

[00:41:07] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Right, exactly. You know, I and I, I’ve even heard of, of, of a guy who he was in that situation, didn’t really have any family, no kids or anything like that. And, but he had a dog. And so what he did was he took the key to his gun safe and he hung it around his dog’s collar. And he said, if, if those thoughts come in, I’m gonna have to go look that dog in the eyes to go get that key and, you know what I mean?

[00:41:32] And so. That gives you just a little bit of time to, to think and really reflect on what it is you’re about to do. And, and, you know, hopefully just buys you enough time to snap you out of it. And, you know, you’re not gonna be you know, rainbows and unicorns and everything’s gonna be peachy after that, you know, a hundred percent.

[00:41:50] But you’re gonna get to a point where you’re at least, you know, down off that ledge and, and you’re, you, you can start to. See things a little bit [00:42:00] differently and, and eventually it, it’s not an overnight process, but eventually you start to, to do the work to, to get to that healing.

[00:42:06] Adam Fluegel: You just, you just need a glimmer. Like you just need a glimmer of hope to keep going.

[00:42:11] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Exactly. Now I wanna kind of fast forward a bit here and talk a little bit about the, the nonprofit that you’re starting that that’s, you know, there for veterans, mentor, mentorship, that type of thing. Tell us a little bit about the, the organization and you know, kind of how it works and, and you know, what, what people can expect from it.

[00:42:30] Adam Fluegel: Yeah. So, so the, the website is currently under development. It’s operation Overwatch is, is the name of the nonprofit. And it, it kind of stemmed from really my struggles in the past when I, when I went through everything I mentioned and got, finally got to the realization that it was that connection.

[00:42:54] I was missing it. I didn’t have, I didn’t have anybody here veteran, like, you know, [00:43:00] brother’s wive, sister’s wise, whatever, not family, but you

[00:43:03] know, service members and. When I got to go spend time with, you know, veterans where here or there, something clicked. It was like that. It was like that void and that hole in my soul was instantly filled, which I could not explain. I mean, it makes sense, but and it was like, whoa. We need more of, we all need more of this. And I was like, well, you know, I didn’t have it because I didn’t know anybody here. I didn’t know veterans. Like there’s, there’s veteran nonprofits, like, you know, veteran organizations, all that stuff, which is great, but maybe I don’t even feel like I can be in public, you know, maybe, maybe my anxiety is so crippling. [00:44:00] That I don’t want to be around crowds or you know, this or that.

[00:44:03] And so we started, we started working through some ideas of like having a place where we could bring veterans together. And it just, the ideas just started evolving and, you know, so I, I was like, what if there was a, what if we had a website where veterans, veterans only. You can go and register. You have to prove you’re a veteran. Kinda like using id, me, but

[00:44:32] we’re, we’re using something different. You prove your veteran status, and that is for the protection of the veterans. So you don’t get trolls or anything like that. You go through the register, you fill out your information, you put your branch of service.

[00:44:47] You can put like what you did. You can be as specific as you want to be in your details. And then you’re, you’re done. Like, that’s that part of it. You finish the registration, you’re done. [00:45:00] So everybody gets to do this and you can I, we don’t know how we’re gonna do it or if we’re gonna use the word mentor, because I’ve had some feedback with that.

[00:45:08] Like, don’t use mentor. Don’t use mentor. So that’s in, that’s under development as well. Whether it’s a battle buddy or somebody there for you fill all that out and and you’re done. Like, that’s your. The setup part. Now imagine if you can, wherever you are in this country, whatever town, how small, whatever, you can put in your zip code or your town or whatever and hit enter, and instantly have a list of every veteran in your area to connect with. But not just that you can have a list of every single veteran nonprofit in your area to go to for [00:46:00] resources, for adventure. Just depends on what you’re looking for,

[00:46:04] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:46:06] Adam Fluegel: and it’s just all in one place. And you can, you’ll be able to message. Veterans saying, oh, let’s, it depends on, everybody likes different stuff, but like, Hey, I’m, I wanna go like, have a cup of coffee.

[00:46:19] Like, Hey, let’s get a group together. You know what I mean?

[00:46:21] It’s, and then it’s also gonna be an application too. So it’ll be a, an app you can get on your phone. It is a hub of everything veteran in your area. And you, it doesn’t have to just be your area. You can extend the range. But it’s gonna be so simple and easy to find your people, to find your veterans to hang out with. And that is the, that’s like phase one is this website and I can’t, like, I can’t promote it or anything ’cause I don’t have anything like to point people to yet. But it is under development. I don’t have a link [00:47:00] yet. But yeah, that’s, that’s the goal is just connection. And whoever wants to be available to veterans who might be struggling, they have that option There There will be, there will be a way to discern if somebody is available in your area that you can go to for guidance or advice or like, Hey, you know, what works for you. Kind of like the conversation we’re having

[00:47:29] right now. And it’s just simple. And I, that’s why I love the name Overwatch, like

[00:47:36] Operation Overwatch is, I’ve seen too many Navy Seal shows and stuff of, you know, snipers, whatever, and I just, there’s always those guys that are up high keeping an eye on their brothers. And providing backup to them. And that’s where that name came from, was, I mean, that’s what it is. Like [00:48:00] nobody cares about veterans the way we care about each other.

[00:48:05] It, it, it just not in a, and I don’t mean it in a bad way towards just civilian people. It’s just nobody gets it the way we get it and understand each other.

[00:48:17] Scott DeLuzio: Right, and yeah, that, that’s what you bring to the table when, when you’re dealing with other, other veterans is they, they understand each other and care about each other in a way that is difficult for a, a civilian. Who’s never served and never had any experience with the military, it’s difficult for them to do in that same way.

[00:48:41] Not to say that they don’t care and that they’re not, you know, anything like that. ’cause there’s plenty of people out there who care about military and, and there’s great supporters out there not saying that at all. So, but it, it’s, it’s different. It’s just different and, and it, it’s hard [00:49:00] to put into words exactly how it’s different.

[00:49:02] It just is. And

[00:49:03] Adam Fluegel: still haven’t figured out how to explain it to somebody other than a veteran. Like

[00:49:09] I don’t, I don’t know how to explain it.

[00:49:11] Scott DeLuzio: No, it just, it, it’s a different feeling and you know, I, yeah, I don’t, I don’t know either, but I, I just know it is and so this is great. I mean, so there, there will be a kind of a nation night nationwide network of of people of veterans who. You can kind of look up and, and kind of see, you know, other there folks in my area that I can reach out to, like you said, get, get a couple people together for a cup of coffee or, you know, you know, do do something together just to get people out and, and do things together.

[00:49:46] And I think one of the challenges a lot of veterans have is like, I personally, I don’t want to go. Join like a a, a club of. Whatever the [00:50:00] interest is, you know, you know, like, I like to run, I don’t wanna go join a running club of other people who run, because most likely I’m not gonna like half the people who are in the group.

[00:50:09] And I just knowing my, my own personality, I’m, I’m kind of a pain in the ass when it comes like that. So, you know, but if there was a, a group of folks who I knew they were all veterans I don’t know. I, I might be more inclined to go out and check them out and you know. Versus just a normal group of, of folks,

[00:50:31] Adam Fluegel: Oh yeah.

[00:50:32] Scott DeLuzio: You know, there’s, there’s a lot of things that people like to do or would be interested in doing in a group of people if that group of people didn’t suck, you know?

[00:50:43] Adam Fluegel: It’s exactly,

[00:50:44] Scott DeLuzio: So this is, I,

[00:50:45] Adam Fluegel: and you get a, you get a bunch of veterans together and you just start giving each other shit instantly,

[00:50:50] Scott DeLuzio: right, and it’s not gonna.

[00:50:51] Adam Fluegel: and take and it’s not gonna suck.

[00:50:54] Yeah,

[00:50:54] Scott DeLuzio: It’s gonna, be, I mean, you might bust on each other. You might, you might, you

[00:50:58] Adam Fluegel: yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:59] Scott DeLuzio: [00:51:00] shoot each other down and, and you know, make fun of the Air Force. If you are, you’re in the army or you know, anything like

[00:51:05] Adam Fluegel: well received. Like it’s not drama, it’s just well received.

[00:51:09] It’s give anti, yeah.

[00:51:10] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. And, and they’ll give it right back too.

[00:51:12] And they, they’re, they’re used to it. So it’s, it’s, it’s all good stuff. And so I, I think, you know, that type of thing is, is definitely necessary to you know, get folks together and just remove some of that friction, you know, to get someone out of the house like you were saying, like you didn’t even wanna leave the house, you didn’t even want to get to work.

[00:51:33] Nevermind. Go and. Join a, a group of people for coffee or, or something like that, you know, so,

[00:51:38] Adam Fluegel: Go to people you don’t know and

[00:51:40] like just that. Yeah.

[00:51:43] Scott DeLuzio: You know, and, and so, you know, just remove some of that friction, make it that much easier just to go out and, and hook up with these people. You know, it’s not like you gotta be you know. Joining some other organization or something like that.

[00:51:56] You know, even even A VFW or American Legion or, or something like [00:52:00] that. Not, not knocking those at all, but you know, there’s membership fees. You gotta go, you know, join a local post or, you know, whatever. And it, it’s just, there’s a process involved. You know, if you could just go online, like what you’re saying and just, all right, click, click the thing, verify myself and, and now I’m a part of this thing and I can just go do any of this stuff.

[00:52:20] Adam Fluegel: And, and just being able to see a, a list of, you may not have even thought of some, like a veteran, like, you know, these guys that do skydiving groups

[00:52:31] and stuff, whatever, hunting, fly fishing,

[00:52:34] like something you may not even cross your mind and you’re like, oh, I could do that with. With veterans, like with my bros, my girl, like

[00:52:43] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. And it may even be something that you’ve never tried before, but you, in the back of your mind, you’re like, you know, I, I would’ve liked to try this, but I don’t have anyone to show me how to do it. I don’t know how to do it myself. I, you know, I don’t have any of the, the gear or anything like that.

[00:52:57] Well, maybe. Maybe there’s some folks out there who [00:53:00] are willing to show you and you know, just get you out there. And you know, it could even be a, you know, a, a mentorship type thing too for, you know, people who trying to break into a, a certain kind of industry or, or something.

[00:53:12] Adam Fluegel: yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:13] Scott DeLuzio: You know, just pick someone’s brain. It’s like, this person’s been working in this industry for the last 10, 15, 20 years, whatever. And you know, hey, you’re, where you’re at, where I wanna be, how do I get there? You know, and, and just kind of pick their brains and stuff, right?

[00:53:27] Adam Fluegel: and I, and I didn’t even think about that. Like it’s just endless benefits I feel like

[00:53:33] that I’m not even gonna think of that are gonna happen just organically, like what you just said,

[00:53:38] it’s, I. I.

[00:53:40] just, I wish I got, so I, I basically, I, I posted this idea on my own Facebook and because I wanted to get feedback from veterans of like, kind of how they felt about it and the feedback was overwhelming and I’m like, oh man, this is great.

[00:53:56] ’cause you don’t really know until you kind of put it out [00:54:00] there.

[00:54:00] But yeah, just the fact that I can’t I don’t have the website yet. I’m gonna start, I’m gonna start a Facebook group with the same name, operation Overwatch, just to get like followers and the where the, you can have a place to point so people can see the mission.

[00:54:17] Scott DeLuzio: Yep.

[00:54:17] Adam Fluegel: But yeah, that’s, that’s where we’re at right now. And then that need like adrenaline junkie stuff, right? Like have you, have you noticed that like, like the skydiving

[00:54:28] and. My wife got me into, into scuba diving. And that’s, that’s actually gonna be a big part of our, our future too.

[00:54:37] Because, because you can now use the GI bill to get SCUBA certified as a

[00:54:43] therapy.

[00:54:44] Scott DeLuzio: Oh, okay.

[00:54:45] Adam Fluegel: this is, this is kind of brand new that they’re doing this and we have some friends that are opening up a, a scuba shop next year. And not just that, but. We wanna have a strong veteran presence, and hopefully that can spread [00:55:00] also.

[00:55:00] Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely. Yeah, that, that, that’s really cool. That, that you can do that. And, and I’m sure some folks out there might, might have been you know, interested in scuba diving, but again, like you said you know, maybe they didn’t have a group of people who could show them how, or, or, you know, get the lessons.

[00:55:14] They didn’t know where to go for any of that kind of stuff. Or, or maybe the, it was cost prohibitive or something. It’s not, you know, super crazy. But,

[00:55:20] Adam Fluegel: in the areas to actually do it are kinda, you know, we’re, most people are laying locked, so

[00:55:26] Scott DeLuzio: That’s true. Yeah, that’s, that is true. So,

[00:55:28] Adam Fluegel: Yeah. it’s hard,

[00:55:29] Scott DeLuzio: hard hard to get to, to an ocean from, you know, Kansas or something, you know? So, but but there, yeah, there’s a lot of possibilities out there. And you know, honestly, I think this is definitely something that’s needed. You know, when the website’s eventually up and running we’ll, we’ll get that link out there.

[00:55:44] You know, def definitely send it my way and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll share it out on social media and all that kind of stuff. So, and we’ll, we’ll update the show notes with the, the link and all that. But you know, in the meantime we’ll have the, you know, the Facebook group and all that in the, the show notes for the, the listeners who want to check it out, maybe [00:56:00] get involved at least.

[00:56:01] With the, the Facebook group just to get notified of, you know, when stuff’s going on, or, you know, when, when you guys have some updates and, and any progress is being made with you know, the website and all that kind of stuff. But definitely I think it, it’s something that’s, that’s, needed in the, the veteran area.

[00:56:17] And I think, I think a lot of folks are gonna benefit from this. So, you know, Adam, I, I really first off, appreciate you coming on and sharing your story, sharing, you know, all, all the you know, all your background and all the, the struggles that you went through to get to where you are you are today.

[00:56:30] But you know, more importantly, I think it’s, it’s kind of inspiring to see someone who. Got to that point, got to that you know, rock bottom moment, unfortunately that it, that you got there. But who was someone who was able to turn it around and not just get stuck there and you know, continue reliving that life, that experience that, that just terrible thing that you have going on and making something positive of it.

[00:56:58] And I, I think it’s it’s inspiring and [00:57:00] hopefully, hopefully it’ll inspire some folks to. Break outta their shell and, and get out there. Check out Operation Overwatch when, when you guys are up and running and, and and, and get out there. So, Adam, best of luck to you and, and look, looking forward to, to seeing more about what you guys are doing in the, in the future.

[00:57:16] Adam Fluegel: Alright. I appreciate you Scott. Thanks for having me.

[00:57:20] Scott DeLuzio: bet.