Episode 557 Adam Swift & Steven Rozina Operation Resilience Fighting Veteran Suicide Transcript
This transcript is from episode 557 with guests Adam Swift & Steven Rozina.
[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Are you one of those people who can name more buddies who died after coming home than what you lost down range. You go to one funeral, then another, and someone eventually cracks a dark joke like, well, I guess I’ll see you at the next one. And then it hits you that this isn’t slowing down on its own.
You miss the guys who chewed the same dirt that you did, but between the flights, the money. To get there. The work family, all of it takes takes its toll and makes a real reunion seem impossible. Now imagine if you were able to get the whole company back together for a long weekend. No generic briefings or PowerPoints, just your guys in the same room walking through the deployment from pre mobilization all the way to the day that you got on the bird coming back home.
Finally hearing what really happened in the moments that [00:01:00] still wake you up at night. Think about your, your old platoon, your own old company, getting together maybe for the first time in years. Adam Swift, our guest today and independence funds are.
Help you understand how your unit can spend hours on a long weekend with clinicians who actually speak your language and then go laugh your ass off later at a hockey game or changing tires at a NASCAR garage instead of just sitting there drinking the pain away by yourself. This is what the program Operation Resilience does for units that feel like being home turned out more dangerous than being down range.
If you ever thought to yourself, when is someone going to do something about this? All these guys that we’re losing this episode [00:02:00] is going to tell you how one leader finally answered that question and how you can too, regardless of what position you held while you were deployed, it could be the lowest ranking private all the way up to, the highest ranking officer, in that unit.
Anybody can take charge and step in and, and get your unit the help that you need even years after. Being together for the last time. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to take a moment to raise awareness for something that’s important to our uh, community. The Global War On Terrorism Memorial Foundation.
This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, the families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism. This memorial will serve as both a tribute to those who served and as a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come.
If you would like to learn more or find out how [00:03:00] you can support their mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.
[00:03:19] Scott DeLuzio: Adam, Steven, welcome to the show. Looking, really looking forward to this conversation. I think this is gonna be a great, great episode, great conversation. But for first off to both of you welcome and thanks for being here.
[00:03:31] Adam Swift: Thanks for having us. Appreciate
[00:03:32] Steven Rozina: Okay. Thank
[00:03:33] Scott DeLuzio: you bet.
Yeah.
Before we get into
kind of the meat of the episode for the listeners who aren’t familiar with who you two are could you just give us a, a just a quick rundown of a little bit of who you are, maybe military background, kinda what, what you’re doing today and, and that type of thing.
Maybe Adam, we could start with you and then, then then Steven, but just a, you know, kind of quick rundown just for, for folks so they, they kind of know who we’re, we’re chatting with here.
[00:03:56] Adam Swift: For sure. Again, thanks Scott for having me. My name’s Adam Swift. I, [00:04:00] I guess in relation to this, I was a platoon leader in one 17 Infantry and we deployed to Afghanistan in 2009, 2010. I ended up doing about 10 years active duty and then finished off the rest of my career in the Reserves and retired in December of 2023 live in Minneapolis Minnesota and got connected with the Independence Fund in 2024. And found out about their awesome program, operation Resilience. Was able to bring our unit out to experience that retreat through them. So excited to be here and, and talk
about how great it was and what our experience was like.
[00:04:30] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that, that’s gonna be a big piece of what we’re, we’re chatting about today. You know, not only just the the Independence Fund, but how that Operation Resilience worked for, for you guys. So, so glad you’re able to kind of bring that up a bit. And and Steven, how about you? Just a quick intro.
[00:04:44] Steven Rozina: My name’s Steven Rina. I’m the Deputy Chief of Operations for the Independence Fund. Funny enough, I am one of the few people at the Independence Fund that’s not a veteran. my background is actually law enforcement. I’ve been in law enforcement for about 15 years and came over to [00:05:00] the Independence Fund, because we had, we, one of our other programs is Veterans Justice Initiative. So my job when I first got here was to teach law enforcement and other first responders how to help veterans in crisis. And since then I’ve moved up. But like I said, like Adam said, we gotta meet him at one of our operas events last year and, and I’ll tell you, his unit kind of set the, the gold standard on how awesome units can be at operas.
We, were, they’re by far probably one of our favorite ones.
They were, they were really great the entire weekend, especially Adam.
[00:05:35] Scott DeLuzio: And yeah, so I, I wanna get into a little bit more about operation Resilience and, and how, how that whole program works. ’cause I’m sure there’s some folks out there who just are just hearing about it. Now for the first time, and they’re, they’re,
they’re really not sure, you know, what that’s all about.
And, you know, could that help them or their, their unit or people that they know or, or things like [00:06:00] that. So, Steven, maybe from, from your perspective, like tell us a little bit about the program, kind of where it came from, how, how that kind of got integrated into what the Independence Fund is, is doing.
And I wanna get more into the Independence fund.
[00:06:13] Steven Rozina: Right.
[00:06:14] Scott DeLuzio: Well, but
for now, let’s just maybe focus on operation resilience and then,
We can kind get.
[00:06:22] Steven Rozina: Yeah, so Operation Resilience is the brainchild of our CEO, Sarah Verdo. If you don’t know who Sarah is, she’s an, an advocate, national advocate for veterans issues, her husband, was a veteran of the Army Bravo Company 2 5 0 8. Her husband, Michael, he actually tragically passed away this past summer due to his wounds after about 120 surgeries.
But that unit. Was they, they got blown up a lot in Afghanistan back in about 20 10, 20 11, and throughout the 2010s there was, they started seeing a, a pattern of suicides. And in [00:07:00] 2018, they were at the funeral for one of those, those members. It was, it was a suicide funeral, and one of the guys actually made the comment, I guess I’ll see you guys at the next one.
And that was like that trigger point right there.
Sarah’s like, no, we’re done with this.
[00:07:16] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:07:16] Steven Rozina: think of something. So she started getting started working her connections with the administration. The. Up in DC working connections with the va clinicians our chief clinician Kea Franklin, they, they, they just, I think they actually started like writing on a, on a bar napkin of what this thing would look like. And they brought in, the first first company was Michael’s Unit, Bravo Company 2 5 0 8. And up to that point they had had several suicides. And after that first Operation Resilience retreat, they had not had another death by suicide. Since that very first one, and they’ve, they, that was in 20, 20 19. So in six years, and they’ve, after [00:08:00] five years, they came back for a second. And up to this point we’ve had over, I think about 800, 850 veterans go through this program. and really it’s, it’s cool because. It takes guys like Adam, they just reach out to us. Say, Hey, I, I saw this on Instagram that you guys do this, and I think I, I’m pretty sure it was Adam. You were the first one that reached out, weren’t you? That reached out? He reached out Veronica, who’s our programs, our deputy director of programs and is like, Hey, my, my unit could use this. And then they start kind of vetting it like, all right, tell, tell us your story. Tell us what happened. And then we’ll start. All right, how many people can we get? And we start, it, it, it starts really small and it takes, I, I think it takes like six or eight months really to get everybody together because as you guys can imagine at first, there’s all this, everybody wants to come say, oh, I’m gonna see my buddies and we’re gonna, we’re gonna drink and, and, and party and have fun, right? And we’re all gonna act like we’re 19, 20-year-old kids again. [00:09:00] But it’s not, it’s, not what this weekend’s about. Now we’ll bring everybody together. Oh, lemme go, go, go back through this. We start working, getting everybody confirmed up. We set a date. We ha we usually hold one in the spring and one around Veterans Day.
We, we, we’ll fly ’em in. We’ve been doing ’em in Charlotte, we’ve done ’em in Texas and a couple other places, but they usually get in on Thursday afternoon during the day. We, we get ’em into Charlotte get everybody together and a really nice welcome dinner the first night where we bring in our donors and really make it.
It’s, it’s about these guys and say, Hey, look, these are the people that, that care about you. You’re not alone. The community cares about you. And there we’re, we’re with ’em every step of the way. We’ll, we go and do fun stuff. I think we will. We’ve taken some guys to. Like NASCAR experiences or game rooms, just something fun to [00:10:00] do sober, together.
And then that’s the first half of the day. The second half of the day they, they sit down as a unit and work with a clinician and we bring in people that do artwork and they go through and talk about their entire deployment. And they’ll start with the. Pre-deployment workup and work all the way up until where they are today. And for a lot of these guys, they haven’t seen each other for 10 or 15 years. And they might be sitting on a lot of those emotions, those stories, because they, they have their perception and they might be, they might be holding some weight on ’em and they’re able to talk it out. And I know there was one unit that we had and there was a guy that when he got there, he’s like, I hate that guy.
He got my buddies killed. And they, they talked it out in a room with everybody there and what he didn’t know the other guy’s perspective and how he had been living with these things. And at the end of the day, they’re hugging and, and, and loving on each other and actually able to like, heal a little bit [00:11:00] more. But really bringing that unit comradery back together is our, is our main goal given these, showing these guys that, Hey, you know what, there’s people outside that love you, but you guys got through that
those hard things together and you can still
lean on each other.
[00:11:13] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, no, that, and that’s great. And so
it’s, it’s unit based, right? So it’s
like guys who who served together at at, at one point. Gals too. I’m saying guys, kind of as a
[00:11:23] Steven Rozina: Yeah.
[00:11:23] Scott DeLuzio: general term, I don’t wanna get any hate mail with this, but you know, but you know, so folks getting together who were deployed together you know, and, and, and they had similar experiences, you know, good and bad.
You know, there, there’s some good, fun times that happens sometimes on, on a deployment, but you know, but they, they are, it’s not like a, a group of strangers getting together. Is, is what it’s sounding like. I,
[00:11:46] Steven Rozina: Yeah,
[00:11:46] Scott DeLuzio: that correct?
[00:11:47] Steven Rozina: that’s, it’s absolutely that, and it’s, it’s cool because you’ll see guys, like I
said, they hadn’t seen each other for 10 years.
[00:11:52] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:11:52] Steven Rozina: they’re, old and outta shape, like, like, like the rest of us, right? They’re, they’re like. I used to be that guy on the, on the wall over [00:12:00] there with a six pack. got a 12 pack, but you know, they, but jump right in to like the same inside jokes, the same like their kid there, there’s young men there. Those, those service members again together and
really seeing how much they
really love each other,
It, it makes an impact.
[00:12:20] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. So Adam
from your perspective as, as someone who’s kind of gone through this tell us a little bit about the, the program, kind of what, what got you interested in it, what got it on your radar and, and how was your experience going through it?
[00:12:36] Adam Swift: Yeah, for sure. I, I would say it’s a very similar experience to what, what you just described. So, it was June of 2024. When had a, a soldier who was in my platoon commit suicide. Was the, the third one from my platoon since we’d gotten home. And when we we actually did the math when we were at op Resilience we, we’ve lost 22 soldiers to various things since we’ve come home. In [00:13:00] 2010 kind of a, a poignant number ’cause we lost 22 soldiers on that deployment. And so now, you know, now we’re at the point where being home is more more dangerous for us than when we were there. so I was trying to reconnect with the guys in my platoon to, you know, share the, the tough news of, of who we had lost. And one of the soldiers, you know, I, I, I told him and great NCO, Sergeant Isaac Matheson I was just like, Hey, you know, are, are you okay? How are you doing? And he’s like, I’m, no, I’m not, okay. When is someone gonna do something about this? and really kind of hit me pretty hard. And it’s like. Shoot, I’m failing as a leader, like, you know, I gotta find something. so I just, I started googling you know, going on the internet late that night trying to see what was out there and came across the Independence fund and this op resilience. And there were just so many parallels. So the, the unit that Steven talked about 2 5 0 8 they were the ones who replaced us in the same AO in Afghanistan. So they, you know, it was really interesting to see that this program was built off of that. ‘Cause they knew exactly what we had been through. And so [00:14:00] it, again, just seeing what that program could do. And one of the big things was that, you know, they had the ability to bring everyone together. You know, I think a lot of the folks who need stuff like this the most probably aren’t in a spot where they can always, you know, fly themselves across the country. And you know, it was just a really, it, it was something new that I hadn’t seen in terms of a resource. I just, like you said you know, there’s a spot on the website where you can reach out. You know, I spent a couple hours writing a, a letter explaining why I thought our unit would be, be a good candidate for this. And then I actually shared it with a couple guys in my platoon to make sure that, you know, I was, I was saying everything the right way. And one of ’em Tanner Kth had been pretty severely injured in Afghanistan.
And he had some connections with Tim Kennedy from his time at Walter Reed. And, you know, we basically kind of just used all, you know, all avenues that we could to reach out and say, Hey, like, you know, we need help. And, and we would. I’d love for you guys to consider us. And so, you know, between Tanner and, you know, Tim Kennedy and then our outreach through Veronica jumped on a call with, with Sarah and the team of Independence Fund. And [00:15:00] from the, the very beginning, you know, again, just I think that connection to, know what, both of our units, the 2 5 0 8 and one 17 had gone through in Afghanistan, everyone’s like. Yeah, this is, this makes sense. You guys would definitely benefit from this. what I, I think one of the, the great things about Independence Fund in the beginning it, it was really focused on like company level, you know, so a hundred to 150 soldiers, you know, at that, that size. and, and from the beginning I was just like, Hey. need to make a big ask. You know, I need to bring as many people from our whole battalion as we can. And they, they didn’t blink an eye, they didn’t flinch. You know, we found a way to accommodate every, every soldier that we could find that wanted to come. We were able to get there. And so, yeah, that, that was kind of how we got you know, involved with it. Again, just that, that connection, I think. And then. Sorry, what’s, what’s the next part of your
question? On like, when, you know, when, when we got there you know, I, I’d
love to sing the praises, but I wanna make sure I’m following along on.
[00:15:53] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. No, you’re good. Yeah, that’s, that’s, this is kind of, you know, the direction I was I was trying to head anyways is, is you know, kind of what was your [00:16:00] experience in, in the program. You know, it’s, it’s easy for someone who represents the organization to say, say how, how great it is. But you know, I, I’d love to hear from the perspective of someone who actually went through the program you know, with your unit, with the, the folks that, that you served with.
You know, what, what did you experience going through this? You know, obviously losing guys beforehand who you served with and then going through this program, and then what, what did the outcome look like for you guys as far as you know. The, the transformation, if you will, of, of your unit as far as you know, were, were there more soldiers?
Who, any more soldiers going forward? Did that rate decline? Did it dry up altogether? Like no more, no more you know, suicides coming out outta that unit or, you know, kind of how did that, that look like for you guys?
[00:16:49] Adam Swift: Yeah, so I, you know, we, we haven’t had any since then. We’re, we’re right at a year out from our time and, you know, I’ll, I’ll knock on
wood because, you know, I think one of the things that we learned is like this,
This process is [00:17:00] never gonna end. The, the process of healing and, and staying connected opera is, is a huge first step. But one of the, the things that I think we learned there is like most of the
resources that are out there are very short term.
[00:17:12] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:17:13] Adam Swift: even, even operas, right? Like you go there for four days. And then the, the burden of staying connected. Fall somewhere else. I think that was the, the biggest thing that operas does do is it brings everyone together and connects you. It, it gives you that mechanism to do that. you know, it was, we started in, in June and we didn’t, you know, our, our retreat was in November, so we had multiple months of just trying to find everybody. So there’s a, a ton of work that I did together with, with Veronica from the, the Independence Fund. know, finding where these guys are at reaching out and, you know, then explaining what this is and you know, there’s a lot of folks who didn’t want to come because they didn’t wanna relive or, you know, have some of that stuff come back up. so, you know, working with, again, with Veronica was kind of my, my [00:18:00] partner through all of it to convince folks and say. is why we’re coming back. This is, this is what we’re gonna go through. you know, we did all the things that Steven was talking about. We went to a hockey game, we went to a NASCAR or garage and, you know, raced each
other, changing tires which was a, a, a great way to
just just get back together, you
know,
[00:18:18] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:18:19] Adam Swift: and take off some of the pressure.
Because the, the clinical sessions were by far the most important part of it, but they were super heavy. You know, we got together and started talking and I. I think we had like two, two hour sessions dedicated to just talking through what happened on our deployment. and we got to the end of the two hour, the second two hour session, so we’d been going for four hours and I think we were maybe like 30 days into our deployment at that point of like how far we had progressed and we’re like, Hey, we, we need more time.
You know, like guys were crying, you know, emotions were coming out. It was, it was good and not a single person wanted to stop or take a break. So, you know, I just, I went up to the [00:19:00] clinicians, you know, we took a little break and I was like, Hey. guys gotta help us out. Like buckle in. We got a lot more to cover. And we spent, I don’t know, I mean hours. I think we were probably in there for eight plus hours. And we could have stayed more. But, you know, it was just like, like Steven said, talking of what’s, what’s Charlie Company’s perspective versus Bravo Company’s perspective. You know, here’s a guy who is in a, you know, one of the very traumatic events and he got to share his experience of, you know, what he saw and remembered of that. Led to just other people having conversations and people getting stuff off their chest. And even just talking about it, you know, there wasn’t those initial sessions. there’s not like a solution, you know, like no one’s here to say, cool, this is what happened to you and do these five things and you’re gonna be, you’re gonna be good. The, the value comes from, again, being back together with that group where, you know, if you, if you try to talk about some of the things that you know, you see on deployment with someone who hadn’t been there. Either you’re afraid to talk about how bad things really were, or [00:20:00] you’ve gotta spend 20 minutes giving him the backup or the, you know, the context of how it got
there. All of a sudden you’re back in a group and, you know, in a room with a group of
guys who, who know the whole story. And you can
[00:20:10] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
[00:20:10] Adam Swift: to the point on, know, whatever the things that are bothering you or, or causing issues. So that, that part was by far the most important. You know, I, I was nervous going in ’cause I you know, I, I worked together to put this whole thing together and I was like
man, I hope, I hope this doesn’t flop. You know, like
if we get there and.
[00:20:30] Steven Rozina: Saying the same thing. We said,
we don’t screw this.
[00:20:35] Adam Swift: You know, I, I can’t say enough, like from the minute, you know, I got to the airport, like it, it was just a first class event. You know, every, every detail had been thought through by the Independence Fund team, so that when we got there You, you felt at home, you felt comfortable. You knew everything was taken care of, and all you had to
worry about was, you know, just, just taking care of yourself,
And, and being back with the boys.
It, you know, one of the coolest parts, you know, we, we get to the hotel and I, I was one of the [00:21:00] first ones to get there. I. And we, we had a whole room, you know, set aside for us for check-in basically. And, you know, there’s elevators that, you know, guys were coming in and every five minutes, you know, the elevator door would open and someone would come through that you hadn’t seen in 15 years like Steven said.
And. Everyone starts
hugging and busting chops again. And then five minutes later
someone else comes in that you hadn’t seen.
[00:21:22] Scott DeLuzio: Right.
[00:21:23] Adam Swift: that was one of the coolest parts was again, just like being able to see everyone connect again. Guys again who would never have been able to make it, if, you know they didn’t have the support of the in Independence Fund to get ’em there. You know, you could see the guys coming in that really needed it. You could see the guys coming in who were excited to be there and step up again as leaders to help facilitate and take over and, and look out for their, their, their
guys again. So it was, yeah, just a, a great
experience from, from the get go.
[00:21:48] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. That’s awesome. and
and from kind of an outsider’s perspective, I, I haven’t taken a part in Operation Resilience or, or any of these, these programs, but just this past summer. There, [00:22:00] there was a memorial service for a, a guy that I, I had served with. He, he had cancer and unfortunately passed away.
And so a bunch of us got together for this. And it wasn’t, you know, huge company level numbers of, of people that were, were coming out or anything like that. It was, you know, however many, maybe a dozen or or or so, 20 some odd people that, that showed up at, at any one point. But. Just seeing those guys who, again, I haven’t seen some of these guys for probably 15 years or so, and just getting together and you pick right back up where you left off is the way I, I experience it anyways.
And yeah, obviously there’s some catching up to do because people, you know, have obviously. Lived lives over the last 15 years, and there, there’s stuff that you’re gonna catch up on and, and things like that. But when you’re, you’re talking about the deployment or you’re talking about things that you guys did pre-deployment and, and all those kind of things, all those stories come up.
And [00:23:00] again, to your your point, Adam, like there, there was some stuff that, that happened that I didn’t know about, which made certain things make a lot more sense to me as, as we got to talking about it and, I was like, oh, that’s why that particular decision was made, or that’s why we did this, that, or the other.
And, you know, not to get into all, all the details, but you know, it, it just, for me, I was like, okay, well this made a lot more sense now that, that I got to have that, that conversation. And so, you know, sometimes you, you might be sitting right next to the same person or, or, you know, laying in a foxhole next, next to the same person and in the same exact event.
Experience two different things. Your, your perspective and that other person’s perspective might be totally different. And even the way you remember things might be totally different and it could affect how you perceive things down the line. And, and it could quite frankly just be a, a detriment to how your, [00:24:00] how your mental state you know, evolves over that time because you, you start to see things in a certain way, but when you, when you start to get that other person’s perspective, maybe, maybe there’s something you missed and they have that, that perspective that you’re missing. And, and you know, it’s, it’s hard to get all of that when you don’t talk about it.
And I know for me my, my deployment was a little. It came to a, a little bizarre end as far as like I, I left well before, a couple months before the rest of my unit left. And so there were things that they experienced that I didn’t experience, but there were certain things that, that I did experience that they may not have known exactly what had had happened up at until that point.
And so it was, it was good that we were able to kind of get together and talk and, and kind of share some of that stuff that ordinarily we might have been able to do while we were. Coming back home and, and going through demobilization and all the, the stuff that you, you normally do. For us, we, I, or me, anyways, I didn’t, [00:25:00] I didn’t get that opportunity.
So, you know, being able to sit with a, a, a group of guys that you, you deployed with is, gosh, it, yeah, sure. It, it can definitely bring up some bad memories and, and things that maybe you just don’t wanna talk about, but it could help kind of put things into perspective and, and help you with, with some of those things too, that you might’ve been struggling with.
And so, as far as what you guys are saying is, it seems like that that’s exactly how this program’s kind of structured. And, and it seems like, and, and maybe Steven, you can talk to this a little bit, it seems like it has a pretty damn good track record as far as you know, helping these, these units out that we’re, we’re struggling with.
Suicides of, of the, the folks who served to kind of transform them you know, afterwards and, and help them get through these things without having you know, the, this sky high number of suicides, right?
[00:25:47] Steven Rozina: Yeah,
and like Adam said, there’s no, this isn’t a long-term fix to anything. I mean,
[00:25:53] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:25:54] Steven Rozina: that’s not, the goal. It, the goal is to give these guys the tools. That or [00:26:00] show them the tools that they already have in each other. Right? And, and bring, like, just bring that brotherhood back together. Everything you guys are talking about and it, it, it always, like most units, they always kind of start the same way they get there and they, they’re kind of skeptical about what’s gonna happen and what’s going on. And so I’m standing off to the side and I’m watching this happen. You, you can usually pick the ones out and it’s always the guy that was probably like. Why are we doing this? This is stupid, right? And it’s everybody, everybody has one. And law enforcement, we always have one. A couple of those guys, right?
Every, every unit. I don’t care if you’re military, law enforcement, fire, where, but you always have that guy. And then along the weekend you see that guy and then he comes up to you on Sunday and he’s like, you so much. And it, it is always shocking, but he is like, this is what we
needed.
I, I, I didn’t realize that the other guys were, I’m
not struggling with what my buddy was.
[00:26:56] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:26:57] Steven Rozina: I need to step up to be there for him, or the [00:27:00] vice versa. Maybe that Buddy is the one that’s like, man, I didn’t realize I could go to him for help. Just bringing that, bringing the guys back together and showing them that, you know what, you guys, not alone in this. And I think that’s, that’s one of the biggest takeaways that we hear over and over is we’re not alone and we’ve been, we’ve been blessed enough to be able to bring a couple units back for a second one. And the second one is always a little bit better because. The guys who didn’t want to come, they start seeing everybody post on Facebook, all the, all the cool stuff and, and how much they were enjoying it. And they’re like, what are you, dude, we’ve been trying to get you, get in touch with you for five months and blow us off, buddy. then they want to come, and then they, they jump right in, you know, at that second one and they tell about their stories. You know, there’s parts where we had a unit recently and I was, I had picked up a group of guys from the airport. There’s two guys sitting there. One of ’em was actually an amputee and they’re talking to, they’re like, I don’t know you, like you deployed with [00:28:00] us. he is. And come to find out, the guy that was sitting with him was actually a replacement. That had came up after this guy had already been hit, at, in an IED attack, it probably replaced him. So they had two,
they were still in the same dirt, but at two different times they had a
completely different experience. Right.
[00:28:20] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:28:22] Steven Rozina: just seeing that and then all of a sudden these guys are, are, they’re together
now. They have a, a network that they didn’t even realize they had.
So.
[00:28:32] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and that connection,
of, of the, the replacement guy who, who took over for the, the guy who was injured. It’s like he probably had some questions too, like, what, what was going on before I got here? And, and the guy who got replaced, the guy who was injured probably had some questions about like, what happened after I left, like, what, what was going on?
And you know, so it’s, it’s good to be able to get those guys together even though they didn’t necessarily know each other.
[00:28:56] Steven Rozina: Right.
[00:28:57] Scott DeLuzio: They, they’re probably, they’re closer than they thought they were, [00:29:00] you know, because they, they had that shared experience anyways. And, you know, so Adam, I, I, I was, I was also deployed in, in 2010 to Afghanistan.
So, you know, the, the time period there like. I’m, I’m familiar with like, things that were going on at, at that time period and, and, and everything like that. And I know, I know for me when, when I left, so I, I left for, for you guys and, and any of the listeners who aren’t familiar with, with my story is I, I left because my, my younger brother, he was also deployed at, at the same time to Afghanistan.
He was, he was killed in action. So they, they sent me home after that. And, it was kind of like one of those mixed blessings because yes, I wanted to be home with my family, but at the same time, I didn’t wanna leave my guys behind. And so it, it was like I was torn. Like I, I couldn’t be in two places at once, especially not on opposite side of the planet, you know?
So like that, that was a logistical nightmare. I couldn’t, I couldn’t get around. But a few weeks after I got home, I. We [00:30:00] had the news on and on, on CNN was the base that I was at and, and there like stuff that was going on at that base and it, it just tore me apart because I was like, I should be there.
Like, there, there are guys that I know that I care about that I, I like, I need to be there. But I couldn’t, I couldn’t get there. I couldn’t go back. And so that, that was that was something that, that was difficult. And you know, I, I don’t know that everybody who was there necessarily understood that piece of, of what I was going through.
And so, you know, being able to kind of share that with, with some of those guys you know, would, would maybe have helped them. May maybe not, you know, but it, it’s just one of those things that getting people back together afterwards and being able to kind of. Have almost like a mini after action report and, and like kind of go through all of the things that, that y’all had had experienced.
And things just start to make a little bit more sense. You get a little more clarity on, on what happened, why it happened, why [00:31:00] perhaps that it couldn’t have happened any other way. And you kind of have to just accept it. Sometimes bad things will happen, especially in, in a combat situation. And, and so that, that sounds like kind of like what you guys were experiencing right through, through this program.
[00:31:15] Adam Swift: And one of the things that was really impactful for us we had our battalion commander attended we had some company commanders and a lot of other leaders attend. And so as we were talking through as a group, you know, what had happened? They were able to be very candid and explain what they saw from their level, right?
And, and why they made certain decisions. And, and now they were either retired or had moved to a point where, you know, they, they could be again, like very, very candid as to, Hey, this is what happened and, you know, maybe we didn’t do the best job of this, but this is why we made this decision. And you could just see a lot of the guys, you know, if you’re a junior enlisted soldier, you don’t always get to.
Understand, you know, why battalion or brigade or higher
echelon make, make decisions.
[00:31:57] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:31:57] Adam Swift: and, you know, 15 years removed from it, you still might not [00:32:00] agree with the decision that they made, but there’s just knowing why, you know, and, and I think seeing the human element of like, those people were, were trying to do the right thing may made a huge difference.
I’ve done a lot of reading on stuff and there’s a, a great book called Achilles in Vietnam that talks about you know, moral injury and, and where it comes from and what happens, and you know, what your responsibility is as a leader. And I thought about that the whole time we were there because again, you just got to. Talk through that, you know, and, and when else can a
private ask the battalion commander, you know, why did we do this?
You know, and in a safe space, right? Like, everyone,
[00:32:34] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
[00:32:35] Adam Swift: everyone knew we were there to help each other out, and it was a legitimate question and he got a great answer, you know? And so things
like that made a huge difference for, for us being in that in
that environment to talk through things like that.
[00:32:46] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And that’s one of the things I’ve, I’ve noticed too is that oftentimes when
you’re in that type of environment in a, you know, a deployment or, or things like that things often get changed at the very last minute. And [00:33:00] as. An enlisted guy or, or something, you may not understand why it got changed and all of a sudden, hey, we’re all of a sudden we’re not going to this place.
We’re going to that place and you know, pack up, you know, you gotta pack different things. You gotta do all this stuff different. And, and it, it could feel like it’s a big pain in the ass, like they’re just jerking you around and, and it, you know, but there’s, there’s a reason for it. And, and sometimes you’re not privy to those discussions and, and why those decisions were made and, and so.
In the back of my mind, anytime I had those types of situations where I felt like I was being pulled in one direction and automatically, you know, going to another direction and, and whatever it is, like, look. It makes sense to somebody. It makes sense to somebody somewhere. I don’t know why. Because I just don’t have all the information and I don’t need to have all the information.
All I need to know is I need to be in this place with this equipment at, at this time, and, and, and, and all that. So, you know, that for me, it, it was helpful to be able to just kind of get through the. [00:34:00] Those unknown situations, it’s like, look, I I’m not going to know everything that everybody else in the chain of command above me.
I’m not gonna know everything that they know. It, it would be a nightmare if I, if I did, I, I think because it would just be information overload to, to know all of those things. And sometimes it might be helpful, but but sometimes it might be just too much. And so, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t have questions about.
What happened and that I’m, that I’m not still scratching my head thinking like, Hey, maybe if, maybe if we did this instead of that things would’ve been different, maybe it would’ve been better. Who knows? Maybe it would’ve even been worse. But I. To your point, it gives people that kind of space, that kind of environment to be able to ask these questions.
Because one thing I’ve learned from, from doing this show is, is about moral injuries and, you know, when someone in leadership kind of be betrays that trust that you have in them that that can really affect people in a, in a negative way. But in a lot of cases, it’s not that the [00:35:00] leader wanted to.
I’m not saying every case. I’m sure there’s some. Cases out there where, where this is, this is true, but you know, the, the leader who is out there is not necessarily out there just trying to screw guys over. They’re, they’re making the best decision with the information that they have at the time. And, and sometimes there’s just not enough time to disseminate all the information and, and but having that opportunity to sh shine some light on the the situation is.
It’s super important. I, I, I think at that, at that point, because it, it now allows people to say, okay, now I got a little bit more information about this. Now I can understand why that decision was made. Again, I, I may not agree with it, but I at least, at least have some, indication why? And it’s not like people just didn’t care or, you know, were trying to screw us over.
It was, it was because of, you know, whatever the reason was. And so, so that’s, that’s a, a, a, a lot a lot of helpful things that are, are happening there. [00:36:00] As far as you know, maybe careers or relationships and things like that, that, that people are now dealing with after getting out. Of the military, you know, as, as veterans, we all, we all are dealing with this stuff you know, trying to figure our, our place out in the world.
How did you see this, this program helping folks with with other areas of their lives, not just, you know, kind of maybe PTSD or other things that they might be dealing with you know, how did that, that kind of affect their relationships, their, their careers? Did you see that, that there were some benefits there for, for these folks?
[00:36:33] Adam Swift: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think anytime you can address some of those, you know, root issues that you talked about, you’re gonna make someone more successful in life from an employability standpoint. And so, you know, I, I feel very confident that, you know, we. We helped in that regard, going through operas and, and you know, what the, the team at Operas was able to help us with, you know, they brought a lot of resources. We talked a lot of those things, but, you know, just guys coming back
together and and building that [00:37:00] support structure makes them better
able to deal with, life. And so I
[00:37:04] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:37:05] Adam Swift: We also tried to, to build it as a networking event. You know, like there were a lot of guys that, you know, one guy’s a, a lineman in Montana and another guy’s a lineman in Kansas.
Like, you guys are in the same career field. you’re not that far apart, you know? There’s opportunities that, you know, things like that where guys can, can just see what else is out there and, and grow their networks. One of the things we’ve done to try and kind of, you know, expand upon operas is build a stronger connection mechanism for our group. And so we kind of had a, a small one in place before we went. Myself and, and four other guys, we, we took over our regimental association, the 17th Infantry Regiment Association. And we’ve kind of used that as our, you know, how do we stay connected, join the association, you know, get emails, you know, get news, be on our Facebook page, you know, using that one for the connection piece. But also for the, the networking and the, and the career [00:38:00] piece. You know, we’ve got a lot things still that we. ideas that we want to do. But that, that being one of ’em is, Hey, we got a LinkedIn page. You know, so if you are, you know, a 17th veteran and, and you’re hiring you know, could you post that there, you know, or if you want to get into a certain company or certain career field, you know, using. Our connection as, as the 17th Infantry Regiment or one 17 to say, maybe you don’t know a guy there,
but I can look on my LinkedIn and see this person works there.
Let me reach out and make that connection. You know, we’re, we’re trying to, to build some of that stuff. It, it’s a work in progress ’cause there’s just a lot going on in everyone’s lives.
But it, it all kind of goes back to that connection piece. We really wanted to be focused on. Not taking it, you know, not losing the opportunity and the momentum we had from, from operas staying connected through Facebook you know, the guys we had, we had a hundred guys that showed up and said, Hey, we want you to go out and, and find three more, you know, and, and get ’em involved in the association.
you know, even if it’s just a, a. A [00:39:00] messenger chat that you have together. But like
[00:39:02] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:39:02] Adam Swift: kind of kinda got this task to keep this going. ‘Cause we don’t want to have, you know, worst case scenario, another thing happen and we realize
three years later and we didn’t, we didn’t maximize the opportunity that operas gave
us.
[00:39:15] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Absolutely. You don’t, you don’t want to
let that opportunity fall, fall out because you got all these people together. And sometimes I think after leaving the military and, and you kind of like s. Kind of drift apart a little bit in, in some cases because you’re, you’re trying to figure yourself out.
You’re trying to figure out what, what’s my next career? What, where am I gonna live? What am I gonna do? All the these things, you’re, you’re trying to figure out all that stuff for yourself. You may not have enough space mentally or, you know, just physically, emotionally, whatever, to worry about other people’s stuff that they have going on as well.
But, you know, now that you’re. You know, few years out and you’ve had some time to kind of figure out what, [00:40:00] what am I gonna do next? What’s, what’s my next act? And, and all that kind of stuff. You know, maybe you do have some time for, for some of these folks, and now that you’ve gotten back together and, and you’re able to reconnect that’s a perfect opportunity to strengthen those connections and not, not just, like you said, not not wasting that opportunity.
So, Steven, for folks who are listening right now, and they’re, they’re interested in operation resilience maybe for their own unit or you know, somebody that they know that like, Hey, this unit’s been having some, some troubles and, and we, they, we need to get these guys through this. What’s the best way to reach out and what, like, what are you guys looking for in, in terms of these units?
And I know Adam mentioned kind of like company size you know, level of, of people. But you know, what’s, what’s the ideal candidate? What, what kind of group are you looking for? And you know, how can people reach out and, and get involved?
[00:40:55] Steven Rozina: We look at that shared experience. That’s the, that’s the biggest thing is that shared experience. People that, [00:41:00] that, you know, chewed the same dirt and, and did the, they were together at, at a certain time. Like, like he said, they, they kind of expanded outside of the company and a more people that maybe they were in a different battalion or whatever, but they were there together. That’s the first thing. And then go on independence fund.org. And there’s, you can, there’s a contact us and link there. I’m pretty sure that’s what Adam did. And it sends you straight to Veronica and she’ll, she’ll call. We’re, we’re looking for units all the time. She’ll, she’ll, you really give kind of like, all right, this is our first step.
We gotta find, we, we try to keep, like, we need at least 50. We want to try to get 50, like let, let’s get a verbal commitment of those. Let, that’ll be our starting point, and then we’ll grow from there and we’ll start building a Facebook page. If they, or if they have a, a, a link like, like Adam was talking about, let’s utilize what you already have in [00:42:00] place and. We’ll start just building, building that network a little bit more and a little bit more, and trying to spider web out to everybody they know. There’s, like, what’s it need to look like? Well, everybody, every, everybody looks a little bit different, right? I don’t think we’ve had any two units that were exactly Adam’s unit, they were in Afghanistan right before Bravo 2, 5 0 8. Had a lot of the same shared experiences, but the, those two units are so different. Like their reactions, how they, you know, it’s, it’s very different. So don’t have like this, you have to fit in this box it’s anybody we’ve, we’ve, it doesn’t matter what branch of the service doesn’t have to just be Army.
Marines, Navy, I, we don’t, we don’t care. Just people that have that same experience and maybe those same struggles. That’s, that’s the biggest thing. And, you know, if you’ve had suicides or maybe some people have reached out and they’re, they’re [00:43:00] struggling that that was a big indicator for one of the most or previous units. had some guys that were, that were really struggling. They didn’t have a high number of suicides, but they. They were
trending. Right? hey, if we can stop
a problem before it begins, let’s do that.
[00:43:17] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:43:17] Steven Rozina: Let’s, try that, let’s try to get ahead of the problem. So I don’t want to give you like, it has to fit in this
box, but chewing the same dirt, being
there together, that’s the first thing.
And then
[00:43:28] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
[00:43:28] Steven Rozina: we’ll try to make it work and, and get these guys together and bring them, bring ’em together
to, to see that, that’s your
buddy still. He’s still your brother, right?
[00:43:38] Scott DeLuzio: Right.
That’s right. Yeah. As, as far as costs go, what, what is involved with all that from, from you know, the independence fund versus like the, the individuals? Is there there any costs on that, on that end?
[00:43:49] Steven Rozina: No cost to the individuals at all. This is, it is donor funded. We, we get sponsors, we, it’s, everything we do is donor funded. So the Operation Resilience, we go out and [00:44:00] we get corporate sponsors, we get private sponsors donors that’ll come and that’s kind of a part of the, the welcome dinner. We invite them to that welcome dinner so they can meet these
guys and say, Hey, look, your company’s doing great things.
You, you guys
are putting your money where, where it matters.
[00:44:15] Scott DeLuzio: Correct.
[00:44:16] Steven Rozina: they can
actually out and, and see the, see that these are, these are
real men. It’s not
[00:44:23] Scott DeLuzio: Excellent.
[00:44:23] Steven Rozina: on Fox News or CNN or
something. These are, these are real guys that they’re
walking the streets with us every day.
[00:44:30] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no, absolutely. And it’s good to know too, as far as the, the cost go, I, I, I wanted to, point that out because there might be some people out there who are like, this sounds wonderful. It sounds amazing. I just don’t have the cash to be able to fund something like that. And so,
And, and what is the, the typical length of, of the program for, you know, like a unit, you know, a group of guys, they, they get there and they go through the program.
What’s the time commitment involved?
[00:44:54] Steven Rozina: Time commitment. We get you there sometime between 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM on Thursday. [00:45:00]
of of the week, and then you fly out sometime afternoon on Sunday. And
[00:45:05] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.
[00:45:06] Steven Rozina: that’s, our, that’s kind of gives us time to get you in, get you checked in. And then our last session is Sunday morning. And then we get everybody out of there.
We, we want to have everybody home by Sunday night so that they can go back into their
week and really only missing if they have to miss two days of work. It’s that it’s
gonna be like that Thursday, Friday.
[00:45:27] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. No. Yeah. And, and so again, that, that was an another,
Question I think some folks might have is like, okay, well what’s the time commitment? Are we talking like two weeks? Are we talking a month? What, like, what, what is the, the time commitment? And, and yeah, sure. Most people can, can probably figure out how to, how to get a couple days off from work.
You know, even if they’re, they’re working, you know, you know, a weekend shift or something like that. They, they can probably figure out ways to do that. You know, with enough planning, I think in advance they, they should be able to handle that. And you know, so I, I think that that’s great. You know, that that costs and, and all that, that stuff are, are all taken care [00:46:00] of.
People are able to participate in this with not a ton of interruption to their day-to-day life. And sounds like the benefits are just. Too much, too good to be true almost. And it’s like, it, it’s like too good to pass up. And you know, part of me is, as, as I’m hearing you, you guys talk about this, part of me is saying like, why isn’t this just done at like the federal level where they, they just have a program that.
Encourages people to, to do this type of thing, you know, even if it’s working through the independence fund or, or something like that, or, or, or however that might work. But you know, just figuring out ways to get that to, to happen more frequently to,
[00:46:49] Steven Rozina: operational resilience
is, it is recognized by the va,
[00:46:52] Scott DeLuzio: okay.
[00:46:53] Steven Rozina: they did, it is recognized by the va. They don’t run it. But Keta, Dr. Keta Franklin, she, she was, [00:47:00] used to work for the va. She was one of their head clinicians or for suicide prevention and she, she’s who really? Built the clinical part of this.
And she’s there with us every time. So it is recognized by the va. But the re the reality is if you tell, if
you tell a veteran, Hey, the va, the VA is gonna gonna help you out, what, what’s your response usually
[00:47:23] Scott DeLuzio: Right.
[00:47:24] Steven Rozina: now to the VA’s credit. In the past
few months or so, getting a little bit more
positive reaction to that.
Right.
[00:47:32] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
[00:47:33] Steven Rozina: more often than not, they’re
gonna, it’s an automatic, they’re gonna turn you off and they don’t want to have anything to
do with it. I mean, so
[00:47:40] Scott DeLuzio: sure.
[00:47:41] Steven Rozina: it, it, that makes it hard. But, but one thing we will do on Sunday after the session, when everybody’s getting ready to leave, we do a resource fair. So what actually, we’ve brought in people from the va. can help out with benefits benefit people to help out. We’ve, we bring in a service dog [00:48:00] company that will give service dogs to veterans and law enforcement for free of
charge. I think they’ve given away in the past three years,
like 40 dogs to
[00:48:10] Scott DeLuzio: Oh wow.
[00:48:10] Steven Rozina: at no cost to those service members. I’m not sure if, if Adam, June, I’m not sure if you guys got any. I think you did. I think a couple of your guys may have. Do you know.
[00:48:20] Adam Swift: Yeah, I, I, I don’t remember if the dogs were there. The, the thing that I will say about of the, the aftermath and, and what, what Steven was saying about the va, like, know, the, the people at the VA are great. They’re trying to, they’re trying to do their best. know one of the things that always turned me off about whether it was VA training
or suicide training in the Army, like it’s these very generic,
like, all right, watch this PowerPoint, or, you know,
[00:48:43] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:48:43] Adam Swift: these questions. Everything at is dialed in specific to your unit. So if you’re gonna talk about, you know, someone who almost committed suicide, like it’s, you know, specialist Jones, and he’s probably the, you know, he’s getting up himself to say, Hey, I [00:49:00] almost did this and this is why I didn’t. Or if you’re gonna talk through a moral dilemma you had on deployment or a tough day, like you’re not, you’re not reading about World War ii, like you’re talking about what happened with your guys on. August 14th, 2000, 2009. know, so it’s, it’s like once people realize that like this is not some generic thing, like this is specific for us the, the opera team does. Just a phenomenal job of doing that. The, the most impactful part of our experience the, the last thing you have there is a, is a, a bonfire and there’s no planning for it.
They just leave it up to the unit to say, here’s a bonfire for you guys, you know, Chow’s provided, but you, you do whatever you need to do that night. So I went to Veronica with, I had this idea, we had a. Teepee on our fob back in Afghanistan that kind of became this memorial. And we, we put the, you know, pictures of the guys that we lost in this teep. And, and I don’t even know where, like the idea of it came from. It, it was, it was a very important part of our fob and I showed a picture of it to [00:50:00] Veronica and I was like, could, could you get this somehow? And I was like, I’ll pay for it. You know, we’ve got funds from our association, but like, if we could get a TP at this bonfire. And she just was like. You know, no more. We’ll, we’ll make it happen. I didn’t have anything else to do with it other than giving her this picture. And when we rolled up on these buses to this bonfire with a spitting image, foot tall tp Exactly. To the memorial that we
had in our fob, like, none of the guys could, could say a
word.
Like everyone was just like, holy cow. I mean,
[00:50:30] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:50:31] Adam Swift: Know the, the input and the effort. And the, again, just knowing like this was important to this unit, putting that there,
you know, no other unit that would make a difference for, but for us, that made, you know,
it made the whole week for us. And
[00:50:44] Steven Rozina: I gotta tell you, finding a TP in Charlotte, North Carolina, was not the easiest thing in the world.
[00:50:50] Adam Swift: but they did it, you know, and so like, those are the things that I think really make it a, a special program is, you know, from the minute you get there to the minute
you end, not just a number
[00:51:00] in the VA system.
You know you are
[00:51:02] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:51:02] Adam Swift: specifically being taken care of by the folks at operas to
make you better.
[00:51:06] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And that’s, that’s important too. And, and the, those are all, you know, good points. And I’m, I’m glad you guys brought that up too because you’re right. Going through a generic. Suicide prevention program that is not tailored to that particular group of people. It’s not going to be as effective as something that’s dialed in.
You know, even with those, those little details that to an outsider looking in might not mean anything. But to you guys, it meant everything. And like that type of stuff. I’m, I’m sure every unit’s got some little thing that, that, that would. Make it that much more special, that much more impactful for them.
And you know, just that, that care and consideration going into it is, is super important. So, guys, this, this sounds absolutely amazing. As far as a, a [00:52:00] program goes I, I’m really encouraging folks who are listening right now. You know, you don’t have to go it alone a for like, you don’t, you don’t have to plan this type of event.
On your own, you know, you can reach out and there are people there who, who are gonna help coordinate all this, this type of stuff. So if you think it’s a good idea and you’d like to, you know, get the ball rolling, at least reach out and and, and see where that takes you. You never know by, you know, a couple months from now you might have a whole group of guys that you hadn’t seen in years come together and.
Be able to start healing together. I know that’s that’s part of the reason why I started this podcast is because there’s just too many guys that I served with who who took their, their own life. And I, I couldn’t just sit around doing nothing. And so if somebody is out there thinking to themselves.
This is, this is too much like one’s too many. But you know, when, when those numbers are, are trending upwards that like someone has to [00:53:00] do something and you know, I I, I, I think if you’re the one thinking that, that someone probably is you, and so step up. Reach out, do, do some, start doing something. At least get the ball rolling.
And, you know, maybe you don’t have all the connections, but you might have some of the connections and some of those other people might have connections. And, and more and more people will end up having connections that it’ll, the word will just spread you know, have, have folks check it out on their own and, and see if it.
Makes sense for them. But you know, do the, do the, that initial legwork and get, at least get the ball rolling and, and see how you can you can maybe help save some of the people that you served with. And that, that to me, I think is, is a, a great first place to start. Right.
[00:53:48] Steven Rozina: One, one thing. Go on our we’re really big on Instagram. Like we, we post so much stuff. Go on the Independence Fund Instagram page, and you’ll see videos and testimonials from the guys that go. We, we [00:54:00] try to get stories from people. Go on there. You can scroll back through our videos, even from just this past November, at the beginning of this month and see our, yeah, at the beginning of November and see. unit that came in and have maybe some of the activities that they did. way people see, okay,
everybody’s always a little apprehensive at first,
but kind of break that ice a little bit
[00:54:25] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:54:27] Steven Rozina: understand it. It doesn’t have to be, you don’t have to have been a leader in your unit. It can, you can be the lowest level guy.
Reach out. had the, from the lowest bottom of the totem pole guy, all the way up to the last unit we had a colonel. He, he was the, the company
commander or the battalion commander most
of these guys had never had a conversation with.
[00:54:49] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:50] Steven Rozina: he, was struggling and he reached out to us, says,
Hey, need this.
[00:54:55] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:54:55] Steven Rozina: he made it happen. So it doesn’t matter where, where you sat on that chain
of [00:55:00] command, it’s okay to step up, be a
leader, you know, lead up if you have to.
[00:55:05] Scott DeLuzio: Right. And I, I think that’s, that’s something that.
You know, Adam, I’m sure you, you can attest to this too, like everyone was encouraged to be a leader at, at one point or another you know, to to kind of step up when, when you needed to. You, you might need to fill in a role. If, you know, if you’re out on a mission and something happens to your, you know, squad leader or platoon sergeant or, or you know, whoever, you might have to move up.
I mean, I was in E five and I was doing my, our. Our platoon leader’s job for a period of time when we were in Afghanistan. So like you do, you’re gonna have to step up at some point. And you can’t just say, oh, well, that, that’s not my job. That’s somebody else’s problem. To, to figure out because that that problem or, or that person might be the one who is having the problem and they’re not in that maybe right state of mind to figure it out.
And if you’re hearing this now and you’re like, you know what, I, I, I feel like there might be some guys who, who could [00:56:00] benefit from this that, that I, I served with. I mean, step up, be, be that, be that person who you know, makes that first step and and get that ball rolling. So, gentlemen, it has been a pleasure speaking with both of you.
Learning about, the Independence Fund Operation Resilience from both sides of, of, of the the equation here where, you know, from Steven, from your perspective, from you know, kind of helping run the program and, and Adam, from your perspective, kind of going through the program. I, I think it kind of paints a good picture for the folks who are you know.
They know, they, they need something. They just don’t know what they, they might need. This is a perfect opportunity for some of those people. So, to to both of you, thank you for all that you do and you know, best of luck going forward and I, I hope, I hope a lot of people hear this episode and, and definitely reach out and, and get the help that they need.
So thank you both.
[00:56:52] Steven Rozina: Thank you
for doing what you do. This is awesome.
[00:56:54] Scott DeLuzio: Appreciate it.
[00:56:55] Adam Swift: I, I echo that. Thank you very [00:57:00] much.