Episode 560 Melissa “Rowdie” McMahon Wounded Warrior Project Help That Works Transcript
This transcript is from episode 560 with guest Melissa “Rowdie” McMahon.
[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Sometimes the hardest part about coming home from deployment is realizing that your body made it back, but your nervous system still thinks that it’s deployed. Sleep turns into a fight. Pain becomes this background noise that just never shuts off. And the more you try to push through it, the more isolated you can feel like nobody around you could possibly understand what your brain is doing at two o’clock in the morning.
[00:00:23] If there is another way that this can go though a version of life where your shoulders drop again, where you find people who just get what you’re going through, you don’t have to give the full backstory, uh, a, a version where you discover something that pulls you out of your head and back into life. One small step at a time.
[00:00:44] That’s what this conversation today is gonna be talking about Rowdy McMahon. Our guest today talks about working as an Air Force nurse in Afghanistan, the nonstop urgency that she experienced, the mass, mass casualties and what it did to her after she [00:01:00] returned. She also. Shares things about the chronic pain years on heavy medications, tapering off of them, mental health support, and how the Wounded Warrior Project, uh, in their programs helped her rebuild from the inside out through nutrition, adaptive fitness and community.
[00:01:19] Before we get into this episode, though, I want to take a moment to raise awareness for something that’s deeply important to our community. The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism.
[00:01:37] This memorial will serve as both a tribute to those who served and as a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.
[00:01:54]
[00:02:08] Scott DeLuzio: Hey, Rowdie, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here.
[00:02:11] Rowdie McMahon: Thanks Scott. It’s great being here.
[00:02:13] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. So, before we get into the, the conversation and kind of your, your story and everything like that, for the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with you and, and who you are, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, your, your military background, and, you know, just kind of a brief overview of who, who we’re talking to here today?
[00:02:29] Rowdie McMahon: Yes. I was an Air Force nurse stationed at Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. Uh, one deployment to Afghanistan. I worked med-surg, so basically like your regular floor nurse deployed, worked, stepped down, and then came back as a pacu, post anesthesia care nurse. So basically tra taking care of everybody outta surgery and drunk and drunk babies.
[00:02:56] Those were fun.
[00:02:56] Scott DeLuzio: It is not something that, [00:03:00] that I would expect that, that you’d have to deal with very often. But, you know, people, people tend to surprise you with, with, with that kind of thing. So, so, so you mentioned you’re, you’re a nurse you know, in, in Afghanistan you’re, you know, caring for lot, lots of different people.
[00:03:15] How did the, the conditions while you were in Afghanistan, that, that you experienced kind of, shape the way you saw your role in, in, in, you know, kind of that initial reaction when, when you’re first kind of thrown into it. How did, how did that kind of affect you when, when you, you were over there in Afghanistan?
[00:03:35] Rowdie McMahon: So I like that you say thrown into it because I feel like you can prepare, right? Like the military, prepare, prepare, prepare, and then you get there and you do feel very much thrown into it. I feel like a lot of that happens with the military actually. You kind of like, oh, I’m ready for this. I don’t know if I’m ready for this.
[00:03:55] Kind of goes through your mind a lot and, and then chaos happens [00:04:00] and, and your body takes over and you’re, it’s like you just know what to do. a lot of those situations we’d never seen civilian side or, or even in the military hospitals back home. And so dealing with like mass casualty situations which meant we were on call 24 7.
[00:04:24] We could hear the big voice overhead on base. That meant you had a report to the nurses station, be ready to go. You didn’t know how many patients were coming in, who they were, were they allies, were they terrorists? Were they who was coming, what the injuries extents were. It could be one person, could be a couple of people, and then it could be like 20.
[00:04:47] And it was all hands on deck and I said, go, go, go. I had never had we’re, we’re technically like floor nurses at that point. It kind of [00:05:00] turned into er, trauma bay. So you might be getting report from the doctor as they’re rolling the patient in and you’re taking the patient from the gurney to the bed and they’re giving you handwritten orders, which doesn’t really exist anymore.
[00:05:15] That can takt time or flushing wounds at the bedside and okay, we’ll get you pain meds when we can. Bye Next patient. Go and then end of the day, or say it wasn’t even your shift. Alright, everybody’s stable, go hit the rack for a couple hours and then you gotta come back to work.
[00:05:37] Scott DeLuzio: That that could be, a lot for, for anybody. I mean, even just experiencing it once, but like a whole deployment where this is basically your day to day is just go, go, go constant. Never really knowing what’s coming in, when it’s coming in. You know, a lot of people go to work and they, they know, oh, I’m gonna have a busy day today.
[00:05:58] I have a lot of meetings, I have a lot [00:06:00] of, you know, things like that going on. I, you know, I just know that I have a busy day and you can kind of mentally prepare yourself for that. Or you know, next week I, I can kind of take it a little bit easy, so I’ll, I’ll get through this week and then, you know, next week it, it, it’ll be a little bit easier.
[00:06:12] But in someone in, in your shoes or you know, other people like you. You have no idea from one day to the next, what are you gonna be dealing with? Is it gonna be mass casualty event after another, you know, just over and over and over again day after day? And I can imagine that that could be a very real possibility.
[00:06:30] And and again, you don’t know who you’re dealing with. Are they, you know, Americans, are they, you know, service members, like you said, even, even hostile people. Yeah I mean, I don’t know how, how to like just mentally prepare yourself for that kind of thing. I, there’s probably really no good way to do it other than, I dunno, when you have downtime, take the downtime and, and use it hard, you know?
[00:06:55] Rowdie McMahon: yeah, yeah. You could say that. Yeah. I [00:07:00] feel like there was times you didn’t really get to process everything because it was like, okay, try to go to sleep. And, and there were days that I think we had a couple hours one day where we had no patients, and I was working day shift at that point, and we had a new hospital commander and we were listening to Marvin Gaye on the radio and dancing at the nurses’ station, and he peeks around the corner and we’re all dancing at the nurses’ station.
[00:07:29] He’s by all means, continue. Sir, we’ve never had no patience before. This is the first time we’re, we’re just gonna enjoy this moment. And so it could be very high tempo to very slow and there could be slow days. And from going from working to the states where you had sick, sick patients. You always had patients to Sometimes.
[00:07:54] Okay. One or two. And it’s very different patients, so we’re talking wound care,
[00:07:59] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.
[00:07:59] Rowdie McMahon: [00:08:00] pain meds versus people that needed your attention hourly or sometimes you couldn’t even leave a room. And so there was sometimes downtime and that, that kind of drove me crazy. I’m more like, I needed to be doing things. I felt like I, I needed to be a busy body because I, I was used to not sometimes taking lunch breaks or train breaks and going, did I even pay this, like whole 12 hour shift?
[00:08:30] And like being able to do that was kind of a blessing. But also you know, the, the opposite side of the coin to that too is well, at any moment,
[00:08:39] Scott DeLuzio: Right?
[00:08:39] Rowdie McMahon: yeah.
[00:08:41] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I mean,
[00:08:41] Rowdie McMahon: the Q word. Whatever you do, you do not say the Q word.
[00:08:45] Scott DeLuzio: you, you, you don’t, yeah, you don’t really want to do that over extended periods of time. I mean, if you had to do it. Here and there, but that, that’s probably okay, but that’s probably not the best thing for, for your health, your physical health if, if you’re continuing to do that over prolonged [00:09:00] periods of time.
[00:09:01] Now when you came home from Afghanistan, obviously the pace of life changed. It shifted from that go, go, go every single day not knowing really what’s going on to probably a more steady routine pace of life. Did you notice your, like any kind of changes in yourself that for better or for worse that, that you were like, wow.
[00:09:25] I, I, I didn’t realize that had affected me so much, you know, as, as I was over there. Were you pretty much the same coming home as you were when you left?
[00:09:34] Rowdie McMahon: I definitely wasn’t the same for one. I, I had injured my back taking care of a Afghan allied patient. And so that changed things where I was running sometimes six, seven miles a day. When you’re deployed, you hit the gym hard, you work hard, and you hit the gym hard. And that went from even mid deployment to not being able to carry my IBA, which weighs what, 35, 45 [00:10:00] pounds.
[00:10:00] And like technically, I should have been sent home. I was seeing the chiropractor, I was getting dry needling from physical therapy. They’re giving me muscle relaxers, like I was a hot mess. But I was like, I don’t wanna let my team down. I wanna finish this deployment, kind of grin and bear through the pain.
[00:10:20] When I got home, I still couldn’t run
[00:10:22] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.
[00:10:23] Rowdie McMahon: because of what happened with my low back and hip. And so being able to walk became even hard because as a nurse, so when I got back, I switched units, same hospital, but I went from floor floor nursing. To that post-anesthesia preoperative care unit. And so, yes, you sit but you also stand a lot and, and then you’re pushing beds where we didn’t push beds as much.
[00:10:55] And so that, that took a toll on my body. And [00:11:00] I think it took a few months. I had started going to Bhop at Fort Sam Houston. ’cause I knew something was going on. There were some things like I started having nightmares. I wasn’t sleeping. My husband would sometimes have to wake me up. ‘ cause you, you start shouting in your sleep or whatever, or, or throwing fists.
[00:11:22] And he would have to wake me up and I’m like, okay, I, I need to address this. Right? This isn’t good. And. Then that’s like a whole nother game too, is finding a good mental health like therapist like to get that help. And that’s like a whole nother topic of conversation, like being female and being a nurse.
[00:11:43] Like I don’t know how many times I was told by a mental health provider and there’s nothing against male health providers, but in this situation it was, well, you didn’t see combat. Well, you’re okay. Like I think [00:12:00] you’re making a mountain out of a molehill, or you’re being too sensitive and you’re going, okay, I need to see somebody else now.
[00:12:06] And you had to learn to advocate for yourself.
[00:12:09] Scott DeLuzio: Oh yeah.
[00:12:10] Rowdie McMahon: so that was kind of difficult.
[00:12:12] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:13] Rowdie McMahon: That was new for me.
[00:12:14] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I would argue that you probably saw the worst parts of combat because there are people who are in combat where nothing happens to them and they, I mean, physically anyways, nothing, nothing happens to them. And all you’re seeing is basically the people coming in with injuries and, you know, maybe gunshot wounds or explosions and, you know, injuries from, from things.
[00:12:40] Like all of, all of the worst things that that could probably happen, I imagine came across your hands or whatever you wanna call it. You, you were, you were involved in some of the, the worst parts of it. So while maybe you weren’t in an actual firefight in that moment, like you still [00:13:00] saw all of the things that, that came through.
[00:13:02] So, I dunno who this person was who was talking that way, but I think they kinda had their head up their head. It’s
[00:13:08] Rowdie McMahon: I agree. I was like, next,
[00:13:10] Scott DeLuzio: yeah, it
[00:13:10] Rowdie McMahon: gonna work.
[00:13:12] Scott DeLuzio: Of anybody, like anybody who isn’t necessarily directly involved in the combat, the, the actual fighting, the shooting, and the, the things like that. Like I would say someone in your shoes probably had seen the worst of it.
[00:13:27] So, you know, whatever you know, yeah. Check the box. Yeah. Okay. Talk to that guy. That guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Move on to the next person. And, and you’re right, you do have to advocate for yourself because nobody else is gonna do it. Not, not anyways to the same extent that you will.
[00:13:43] And that goes for anybody. You know, if you’re, if you’re not willing to speak up and advocate for yourself and, and make sure that you’re getting the care and the treatment that you need and deserve, nobody else is gonna care as much as you are. So, so [00:14:00] you did, I, I think in this case, you did the right thing and, and continued looking for you know, somebody else.
[00:14:05] But you know, I know when, when you were, you know, back in Afghanistan, you had the, that back issue and you know, you just muscled through the pain and said, you know, I’m, I’m just going to deal with it. That’s something else that I think a lot of us do because again, we don’t wanna let our team down just the way you were describing.
[00:14:25] And so it’s no, you’re not alone in that. There’s, there’s a ton of people who, who do the same thing. And when you get pulled away from that team for one reason or another, it, it can, it can have its own set of issues too, because you feel like, oh, I left these people down. I’m, I, you know, maybe I, maybe I failed at my mission, or, or whatever.
[00:14:44] And so, you know, there’s, there’s two sides of all the, all the different coins that, that are going on here. But there, it’s, it’s a lot. I, I think I’m saying all this because I. I don’t want anybody who’s in your shoes who is hearing that same type of message from another provider [00:15:00] saying no, you, you didn’t really experience anything traumatic.
[00:15:03] So why, you know, why are you why are you here? Why are you even, you know, worried about this type of stuff? It’s there are a lot of things that we all experienced, and you know, whe whether bullets were flying over your head or not is kind of irrelevant. You know, because there may have been something else that, that was a traumatic experience.
[00:15:24] And you know, you, you had a lot of those things and, and so I’m, I’m sure there was, you know, even with the physical injury, there was some doubt that creeped in your head. And, and there’s some other things that, that were stirring up some different kind of emotions and all that kind of stuff. And, and so yeah, maybe you need to talk to somebody.
[00:15:41] That’s not, there’s no shame in that. There’s, there’s nothing wrong with that. So, you know, I, I think when. you have those type type of things, it’s, it, it is important to find the right person, I guess. All that to say you know, find, find that person who understands what, what you’re going through and, and how you’re how it’s affecting [00:16:00] you, you know?
[00:16:00] Rowdie McMahon: Right, right. Yeah. The, that mental health journey is definitely, everybody’s journey is different. Everybody’s trauma is different, and, one of the girls I follow now, she’s and I love this saying is like, comparison, right? Comparison is the thief of joy. So it’s who am I to compare my trauma to somebody else’s trauma?
[00:16:24] Like where does that get anybody? So yeah,
[00:16:27] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I, I’ve said this, I’ve said this before too, is if, if you have two people and they’re, they’re drowning and one person’s drowning in 10 feet of water, and the other person’s drowning in a hundred feet of water, which one of them is drowning worse? They’re both drowning. It doesn’t really matter, you know? So, so from the, the physical injuries that you had when you got back home I imagine you, you probably went through some sort of, uh, you know, process to heal on some of those things, or are you still in that process? I’m not sure. You know, how did that all look when you got home? As far as the, the, uh, recovery [00:17:00] from all of that?
[00:17:00] Rowdie McMahon: That was a long. RS process, that’s still ongoing. I mean, some, some injuries never really leave. We just learn to live with chronic pain.
[00:17:10] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:17:11] Rowdie McMahon: And thankfully I’m not on as many medications. I’m not on, I think they had me on like hydrocodone or Percocet for two years and then finally started working on a med board.
[00:17:23] And here I was still a nurse, even though I couldn’t take this at work. But again, Gran and Barrett and that’s a roller coaster and a half the, the Guinea pig with medications. And like at one point I was going through fertility treatment with my husband. So I had to go off of a lot of psych meds that the VA had me on, slowly tapered off them carefully under doctor.
[00:17:51] So I wanna specify that don’t just stop psych meds like that. Horrible
[00:17:55] Scott DeLuzio: bad. Yeah.
[00:17:56] Rowdie McMahon: this process took months and it was [00:18:00] not easy on my body or my mind. And like I was doing self check-ins with friends and my husband because at any point was it, do we need to take you to the hospital for inpatient therapy?
[00:18:11] Because there was days that were definitely harder than others. ’cause you’re messing with your hormones when you go off meds like that. And once I was finally off of ’em and I was in a place where I had good, good mental health provider and I had been seeing therapists for several years, I felt strong enough that, okay, I, I can do this right?
[00:18:37] And it was like a fog had lifted and I kinda looked back and tried to process oh, what was that? This was post COVID, so maybe back in 2022. So we’re talking a good four years of being on heavy medications, maybe more, and [00:19:00] went, God, I was a zombie.
[00:19:01] Scott DeLuzio: mm-hmm.
[00:19:03] Rowdie McMahon: And so that was kind of like a process of rediscovery myself and who I was and like understanding my limits or being present in my body.
[00:19:16] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
[00:19:16] Rowdie McMahon: paying attention, right? Because it’s really easy to overdo things like the day, the days you have energy and that motivation to do things. And it’s so easy to overdo things. And sometimes my husband even has to go, Hey, are you doing too much? Are you gonna regret, regret this choice? So yeah. And, and part of that was after going through the physical health and wellness program with when Warrior Project. ’cause it was modifying things and paying more attention to and checking in with yourself.
[00:19:48] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I, I, and I wanted to get into the, that Wounded Warrior Project, the, the, the physical health and wellness program that, that you just mentioned. Because for a lot of people out there who might be [00:20:00] dealing with some sort of. You know, physical health issues they maybe aren’t aware that this is even a program that exists and, you know, how can it help them?
[00:20:09] And you know, maybe they, they’ve tried other things, maybe through the VA or through other organizations, and it’s just nothing seems to be helping. And you know, I, I always like to give different options for folks and, and let them know of the programs that are available. And, and so, this is one, one that came across and I, you know, it sounded really interesting and I, I wanted to kind of learn a little bit more, but I’d love to hear from you kind of, well first off, like where, where you first got involved with it, like, how did you hear about it and you know, kinda what made you think that this was the right program for you?
[00:20:40] And then kind of your experience going through the program as well. You know, as far as, you know, you know, what, what was that experience, you going into it, and then how did you come out of, of the program and, and how are you how you, how did it benefit you?
[00:20:53] Rowdie McMahon: So I got really involved with Winter Warrior Project. It was during COVID and [00:21:00] I think a lot of us were not doing healthy things during COVID.
[00:21:03] Scott DeLuzio: Right.
[00:21:04] Rowdie McMahon: Yeah. And like I remember just looking in the mirror and going, I don’t recognize myself. I was an athlete before, you know, and, and so you go, whoa, I don’t recognize myself.
[00:21:17] I’m not happy with myself. I’m not, and you just kind of internally look at everything and you’re like, alright, time to change something. What is that? I need to be more involved with people. I need to do this, I need to do that. And I was watching TV and because for the longest time in my head, I didn’t think Wounded Warrior Project would be a fe for me, because while I’m not an amputee or I didn’t like that mental health provider, I didn’t see combat.
[00:21:48] Right? I saw the aftermath of it. I wasn’t in combat. And it was what the saying, not all wounds are visible. And so that stuck with me. [00:22:00] And so, okay, let’s, let’s change something. So I called the resource center. And they got set up with the post and their, their weekly newsletters, like different things that are happening and the focus, they’re like, is there something you wanna do?
[00:22:19] One of the programs? And I’m like, well, I’d really like to, you know, start focusing on like my physical health and wellness. And they’re like, oh, well we have the perfect program for that. And it’s kind of a holistic approach to everything. And because it was during COVID, a lot of it was virtual. And so we had meetings with coaches and they’d go over, like one day it’d be about nutrition.
[00:22:45] And even as a nurse, I was learning things. And then some parts were fitness and a lot of it was adaptive fitness and how you can modify things depending on your needs or your injuries, and. [00:23:00] It was all encompassing. And then we went to San Diego, depending like where you are in the United States for a three day expo.
[00:23:08] And that was the first time I like hung out with warriors and we were having to wear masks and had we’re in a ballroom, we’re all separated at tables and doing yoga outside with like our yoga mat six feet apart. But we we’re veterans, we made it fun. We were laughing about stuff and I was having conversations that a special sense of humor.
[00:23:33] I think in all of us.
[00:23:36] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:23:37] Rowdie McMahon: Things can go sideways really quick, but in the best of ways, sometimes the worst ways, then you gotta dial it back. But sometimes the best of ways, and that’s where that camaraderie comes in. I’m like, Hey, these are my people. Right? And so now I had basically a team of people and we’re all encouraging each other to.
[00:23:56] I dunno, go outside and go for a walk or eat healthy [00:24:00] or not look at our phones while eating dinner so that we’re paying attention to how much we’re eating. And I think two years later they, they let me go back because since it was during COVID and then there was like a hundred warriors instead of 15 to 20 and we didn’t have to socially isolate and we were able to do more.
[00:24:24] And I’ve lost, I probably have lost 20 pounds since doing that. Like slowly healthily and I’m more active ‘ cause I would figure out what worked for my body where I wasn’t overdoing it. Like I know I can’t lift heavy weights. So what do you do? Body weight, Pilates, yoga. And you still get the benefit of moving.
[00:24:52] Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and the mental health benefits that you get from doing physical exercise or, [00:25:00] or other things like that is, is pretty huge too. And if you’re experiencing a physical injury. That is limiting the things that you can do physically kind of like what you described and you just decide, well, I’m just not going to do anything.
[00:25:15] Well, that’s going to not only have a negative impact on your physical health, but it also will eventually have a negative impact on your mental health as well. And so it’s there, there’s so many benefits to being able to do those things and when they open up your eyes to things that you can do, it’s well, okay then I’m not gonna sit around and just do nothing.
[00:25:37] I’m going to figure out those things that I can do and I’ll do more of those things and yeah, sure. Maybe less of the heavy lifting or, you know, things that maybe you might’ve used to be able to do but. You’re still doing something and it, it’s physical. I’m, I’m sure you’re exerting yourself to, to some extent and you’re, you’re getting the benefits of the exercise.
[00:25:57] You know, you, you just mentioned that there were some, some [00:26:00] weight loss. So if nothing else you’ve, you’ve gained, you gained that as a benefit. And I’m sure there were other benefits as well, but but I think one of the, the biggest things is something else that you mentioned is, is that comradery that that community of, of people who came together, all veterans, all people who kind of share a similar sense of humor, you know, way of interacting with each other.
[00:26:24] And, and you’re right, it could be, it could be the best or it could be the worst depending on, on the, the situation, but but it’s, it’s something that kind of takes your mind off of whatever you end up having going on in your head. And you, you end up just spinning through these cycles of all this. Just negative stuff going on in your head.
[00:26:46] And you can kind of break outta that for a little bit. Even if it’s just a temporary break, it’s still a break. And it gives your, your body, your mind a chance to kind of just take a break [00:27:00] from all of the, the noise, all that negativity. And it also lets, you know, I think that you’re, you’re not alone, right?
[00:27:08] That there are other people who maybe have physical injuries that maybe aren’t visible you know, a, a back injury, it’s not visible. Probably someone looking at you would be like, yeah, no, you look fine. You know, but but a back injury could be very very painful, very debilitating. Like you said, you couldn’t run or, or even walk in, in some cases like it, it can really mess you up.
[00:27:31] And but knowing that there’s other people out there who experience the same thing, you know, through, maybe not the same thing, but their own challenges in, in a similar way that I would imagine was a, a very big positive benefit for you for, for being in a program like this, right?
[00:27:47] Rowdie McMahon: Yes, absolutely. And that just, I felt like it was just springboarded me forward and, and once things were happening, like locally, [00:28:00] okay, it’s scary, right? To go somewhere alone. Like it’s one thing when I could bring my spouse, but he couldn’t always be there and be like, okay. And I remember one of the first events, like in-person events I went to, and it was because somebody in that physical health and wellness class kept talking about pickleball, right?
[00:28:17] And we all know what pickleball is now, but at the time I’m like, what the hell is pickleball? And they described it and they had an event here. And I’m like, all right, I am gonna go try this out. And met local warriors. Had a blast, got outside in the sun. I wasn’t a vampire for the day. And then I actually started playing with other veterans for a long while.
[00:28:41] Like we’re talking Vietnam era veterans and these 70-year-old men were whooping my ass on the court and I had a blast. And that gave me another sense of community, right? Like it doesn’t just have to be post nine 11 veterans,
[00:28:56] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.
[00:28:57] Rowdie McMahon: it’s all veterans and [00:29:00] yeah. And so I think it kind of gave me that little bit of courage.
[00:29:05] I needed to set foot outside my front door. Like not all people are bad. Not all people are mean or out to get you.
[00:29:14] Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah. And, and when you find a common interest, even something like pickleball doesn’t matter what the, the common interest is. I mean, and it may be something that you’ve never done before like you said, like that was kind of a new thing to you at that time. And you said, you know, but I need to do something.
[00:29:32] So this is a thing people are talking about that people are, are doing. So, okay, let’s get together and let’s, let’s see how it is. You, you could have tried it and hated it, and that would be okay because at least you tried it and now you know, okay, well that’s just a thing I, I don’t want to do because I, I don’t like that thing.
[00:29:48] But if you never gave yourself that opportunity to decide whether or not you liked it, then that wouldn’t be such a great thing. I, I think you, you gave yourself that, that opportunity. And when, when you [00:30:00] are go stepping out there and trying those new things, you’re, you’re kind of teaching yourself that, hey, this.
[00:30:06] This isn’t so bad. You know, being, being around these people, like these people are my people. They’re other veterans. They’re, yeah, sure. Maybe not other Afghanistan veterans. They might be Vietnam veterans, but they’re other veterans. And, and I’ve talked to people from all sorts of generations of, of of of veterans and they, they all pretty much get along.
[00:30:31] You know, like it doesn’t matter what the era is that you came from, you, you’re gonna find some way of, of connecting with those people. You know, that the camaraderie that, that, the jokes, that the things like that, it’s, it’s gonna land with, it doesn’t matter who you’re talking to. So, so you probably had that, that similar kind of experience.
[00:30:48] But again. You were able to find those, those people with a, a shared interest. So that that helps. It’s, it’s one more thing beyond veteran and, you [00:31:00] know, there might’ve been some people that you eventually meet who weren’t veterans at all, but maybe were interested in pickleball. And so now you have a connection with that person too.
[00:31:08] And, and, and you can kind of continue to grow experiences. The more things you try, the more experiences you’ll have, the more interests and other things like that, that you’ll eventually have and, and, uh, you, you can start to kind of expand your, your network that way. Right. Now you, you mentioned the virtual events from the, the Wounded Warrior Project, you know, during COVID and, and things like that.
[00:31:32] Was it easier for you to kind of dip your toes in the water with the virtual events? Did you find that that was, that was helpful for you at first? Yeah.
[00:31:42] Rowdie McMahon: Virtual events are great. Like everything from arts and crafts to peer support groups. I still meet virtually month, once a month with a women’s peer support group. And you look forward to seeing those women every month. And there’s days, right? Like you might be having a bad day or a bad week, whatever’s going on in [00:32:00] life, and you don’t wanna go, but.
[00:32:02] That friend will text you, Hey, are you gonna be at the meeting tonight? Yeah, I’ll be there. And that, just, just seeing them, you know, it might, might be a day you don’t feel like talking, but just being with that group of people, you do feel a little lighter. You do feel a little better, you know, you’re not alone.
[00:32:21] And yeah, I’ve had some really fun, fun virtual events. And then being able to sometimes meet those people in person later I’ve, I’ve known you for two years and I finally get to meet you is, it’s pretty
[00:32:36] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I, I found that with this podcast, I, I mean, pretty much every episode I’ve done has been a virtual episode, like what we’re doing right now. You know, for the listeners, we’re not sitting in the same room. We’re, we’re, we’re miles and miles apart. And, and, uh, you know, we’re thank, thankfully the internet allows us type of connection to happen.
[00:32:55] But there was an event you know, a couple years ago that I, I went to and a bunch [00:33:00] of the people that I had as guests on the podcast were at the event, and I finally got to meet them for the first time in person. And it was great because the ice was already broken. I already knew the people you know, we had already had, you know, and 45 minutes to an hour long discussion on, on the podcast or, or whatever the time was.
[00:33:17] And then we got to meet in person and, and have those conversations in person and, and more experience based things like we got to go do things together, experience things together as opposed to just. A virtual conversation where there there’s no physical, physical proximity, you know, that, that type of thing.
[00:33:37] But you know, which is good, but it, it kind of like helps you break the ice a little bit and it makes it that much easier where may not have approached those people and, you know, had I not spoken to them on the podcast, I may not have gone and talked to them or hung out with them or, or done anything like that because I didn’t know who they were.
[00:33:56] And, and so that these virtual things really are, are useful [00:34:00] for that type of thing. And then you can, you can translate that into real world experiences as well down the line. Right.
[00:34:06] Rowdie McMahon: Yeah.
[00:34:07] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So through the Wound Wounded Warrior Project, I know they have lots of different programs and things like that, and you mentioned the, the physical health and wellness program.
[00:34:15] Were there any other programs that you, you took part in through the Wounded Warrior Project? You.
[00:34:21] Rowdie McMahon: I’ve done a couple all female project Odysseys. I’ve done one in person, uh, which was amazing. I highly recommend doing that. And that was one of the first that they let, go live
[00:34:35] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.
[00:34:36] Rowdie McMahon: in person. We were at the tail end of COVID. And one of, at least one of those females in there, like we still like weekly check-ins, monthly calls.
[00:34:47] There’s a few in there that we still talk, but like one in particular were really close. And I’ve done, the other project Odyssey I did was a virtual one. I just, I didn’t have time to get [00:35:00] away, and they’re like, well, are you interested in doing virtual? And I’m like, yeah, I need a quick tuneup. Because a lot of it was looking at, well, it it is good. It’s what for your mental health? Right? But it’s not like out intensive outpatient therapy or something. It’s not like that. It’s adventure based therapy. So going in person, I, we swam with dolphins and went to SeaWorld.
[00:35:32] Scott DeLuzio: Oh, that’s
[00:35:33] Rowdie McMahon: a, they had to cancel like a ocean kayaking trip it down poured in San Diego. And in lieu of doing that, like a bunch of us women, we, we ventured out into these flooded streets and, and went and bought stickers for water bottles. But we made it, it was like an adventure in itself. There was like a foot of water in these streets. And and so we just, we [00:36:00] bonded and you learned about each other and that had that comradery.
[00:36:03] And I think being female too, in the military, when you’re in the military and being female, it was hard to forge bonds with other women
[00:36:12] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.
[00:36:13] Rowdie McMahon: because it’s a male dominated. And so there’s a lot of competition too, as we know in the military. And so it’s is this person kissing ass
[00:36:22] it’s hard to make those connections with other females. And there’s more than one friend another female veteran that I’ve, I’ve talked to or they’ve shared their story where they’re like, I didn’t have any female friends in the military. It was really difficult. This person would stab you in the back and we’re like, why do women do that?
[00:36:39] And now we’re forging these bonds later that were out of the military. I don’t know if it’s like the competition is gone or I can’t explain it. I don’t know why we do that to each other, but yeah.
[00:36:54] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I, yeah, I, I don’t know. I, I wasn’t, obviously, I wasn’t a female in the military, so I, I can’t [00:37:00] say that I share that experience or, you know, that I, I understand it at all. But but you’re right, it, it’s, it’s gonna be different for, you know, a female going through than, than a male. And and, and so having those folks who had a sh a shared similar experience being a female in the military is probably good to be able to hang out with those people who understand what you went through and understand how your service might have affected you in, you know, one way or another.
[00:37:27] And so, you know, having tho those programs where, where you can get together like that I, I think are, are, are. Pretty important.
[00:37:35] Rowdie McMahon: Yes. I, I really agree. Like I, I felt, I didn’t feel like I had a sisterhood, if that makes sense. While in the military, even though I was a nurse. Right. And there’s, there’s a lot more females than the n like the nursing squadrons. Right. Or, and we were with Army too. Like one of my closest friends ended up being an Army nurse.
[00:37:55] It took a year because it was like getting to know each [00:38:00] other. And even though you’re working side by side, you don’t know if somebody’s gonna throw you under the bus. And it’s really, it’s really sad. Where I have other female friends that they might have been one female out of 200 males and no other females, so their experience is very different.
[00:38:15] And so now they have a sisterhood because they didn’t even get that opportunity to, you know, be around other females.
[00:38:21] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, no, absolutely. And. I know when I was in, I was an infantryman, and this was back before women were even allowed in, in the infantry. And so everybody I served with were, were guys. And so for, for me, it was like, I, I went my entire service with very limited interaction with any female soldier at all.
[00:38:47] In, in any capacity. I mean, there, there’s, I could probably count the number that I interacted with on one hand and that’s just, it’s just you know, a, a different world now. Obviously but [00:39:00] it’s probably still very, for the people who are in tho those roles, it’s probably still very male dominated.
[00:39:06] And they probably do have those same similar experiences that you were, you were just talking about. But I think. One of the great things about all these, these programs that you’re talking about are are are those connections that are formed, the, the comradery that the bonds that you, you form and and sharing your, your story maybe with somebody and, and letting other veterans know that they don’t have to go through it alone, that they’re, they’re not alone in whatever it is that they’re going through.
[00:39:35] There are other people who have experienced very similar things. And, and that’s something that you get to do through, through these programs. I, I wonder like if you were, if you were to kind of go back in time and go to your, your point where you felt like you were kind of at your, your lowest point before, you know, kind of doing any of this kind of healing work and, and things that, that were helpful for [00:40:00] you what do you wish someone would’ve said to you at that point?
[00:40:03] To, to kind of help, help you kind of kickstart that journey?
[00:40:10] Rowdie McMahon: It. I think part of that would’ve been like, I think people knew, but they’re sometimes afraid to ask. Right?
[00:40:22] Scott DeLuzio: yeah.
[00:40:22] Rowdie McMahon: Or, or help you find like that resource or Hey there’s this great, you know, here’s wound to warrior project. Bring it to you on a platter and you know, it’s okay that you’re not an amputee.
[00:40:35] Or, I mean, we’ve seen the commercials and we know we’ve met some of the veterans and, and now like looking back, it’s oh filling lonely today. Wanna do some arts and crafts? You don’t have to talk to anybody, but someone’s gonna be on video. And if you feel up to it turn your video camera on and we’re just gonna color, but you’re not alone.
[00:40:58] Right?
[00:40:58] Scott DeLuzio: [00:41:00] Right.
[00:41:00] Rowdie McMahon: And if you’re a Marine, you know, it’s okay if you, you leave your camera on, on, we wanna see you eat the crayons. Like just this but yeah. I, I, I feel like it, it like took a minute for, to know that like help was available and that it wasn’t just, I like, I guess saying that oh I need a referral to a mental health provider.
[00:41:27] ’cause that’s scary enough asking, but it’s not like that. It was very easy. It was very, as soon as you pick up the phone and call or if you submit your paperwork, resource center calls you. And just like their intake questions, they’re like, okay, well what can we do for you today? What do you wanna focus on?
[00:41:49] Or, Hey, I need to get out of the house. I’m struggling. But I’m also afraid to get outta the house because, you know, the world can be a scary place, [00:42:00] but when that, when you’re in it, right, and that darkness of PTSD and everything else, you don’t wanna leave the house. And the more you isolate and the more you hermit, like the worse it gets and the harder it is to actually leave the house.
[00:42:17] And so like for, with the virtual things, that was such a great way to almost just like you said earlier, is it’s distracting yourself, but you’re also being present with others.
[00:42:34] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and I would imagine too that when you are doing these virtual events, you start to get to know some of the other people who are there. And then when the opportunity for an in-person event with these people eventually came up, it wasn’t like you were a kid at a new school on, you know, the first day of school where you, you didn’t know anybody.
[00:42:57] And it kind of had that nervous feeling [00:43:00] like, all right, who are these people? What am I walking into this, this could be kind of a scary thing. It’s no, I, I’ve known these people for quite a while now, and yeah, I know I’ve known them virtually, but. I can maybe even get excited about going and, and talking to these people and, and meeting them in person because they, they seem like they’re pretty cool online, so why wouldn’t they be cool in person too, you know?
[00:43:21] And,
[00:43:22] Rowdie McMahon: Yeah, exactly. Or, or even when we have met up, just like local events.
[00:43:27] Scott DeLuzio: mm-hmm.
[00:43:27] Rowdie McMahon: We, we typically, hi, I am so and so, I, you know, served in the Air Force or the Army or whatever. And, and then, you know, if it’s passing a ball which I’ve done right? And they, we’ve had a ball where it had like random fact about yourself and then you get people laughing and interacting and oh, this person has a common interest or, and now I have friends that’ll be like, Hey, did you see this?
[00:43:58] Did you sign up for this? [00:44:00] No, I couldn’t get in. Okay, well you’re gonna be my plus one if, if, you know, I get it. And so, I didn’t have community here in Las Vegas. I wasn’t from Las Vegas. And so while I have good neighbors, thankfully. I didn’t have community until I really started like going to events and meeting other veterans locally and like thanks to a new Warrior project.
[00:44:23] Like I was able to do that and felt safe. I think for the first time after a few events and getting to know people, I was finally able to sit with like my back to a door, like at a restaurant, because sometimes that’s an event is let’s just go eat food and interact.
[00:44:41] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And, and I know a lot of people have that same trouble that you just mentioned, have, having their back to a door or you know, any kind of vulnerable, vulnerable position like that is difficult for some people to be able to do. But over time, you know, you, you’ve just. Proven that [00:45:00] with time and some practice and some I don’t know exactly what it is, but, but with time you can eventually get to a point where you can do those types of things and it’s, it’s not taking control over your entire life where, where you feel like I can only do certain things because this is holding me back and, and things like that.
[00:45:21] So, so to your point, you know, what, what you wish that someone would be able to have said to you way back when you know, just asking, Hey, do you need help? How can I help? You know, those types of of questions are important because a lot of times people feel like they’re going through something all alone or that they have to go through this thing all alone, that they, they can’t that, that they, they can’t do anything.
[00:45:48] Where they’re bringing other people in. ’cause they don’t wanna feel like a burden or, or anything like that. But if you, you kind of break the ice and say, Hey, I, I want to help. How can I help? What, what can I do? And you, you [00:46:00] start with things like that then, then you might actually be able to get that person the help, help that they need without without them struggling to, to figure out this stuff on their own.
[00:46:11] Right.
[00:46:12] Rowdie McMahon: Right, right. Because there’s, it’s like the wind warrior project logo,
[00:46:16] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:16] Rowdie McMahon: The warrior carrying the other warrior, like sometimes you’re the one carrying somebody else. ’cause everybody goes through things in life. Everybody has up and downs, and sometimes you need to be the one being carried. And so, and I’ve had, I mean, I’ve had that both ways, right?
[00:46:34] That’s, it’s doing check-ins with people. Hey, I haven’t heard from this person in a while. Or even going to an event and, and, and say, you have all this high energy, fun, good time. Now you, you’re home
[00:46:48] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:49] Rowdie McMahon: and now it’s just you or you and your dog, or, and you go back to life. And, and that can get, you know, hairy sometimes.
[00:46:58] And so it’s important to [00:47:00] check in with people and, and go, Hey, how are you doing? Or as simple as I was sick a few weeks ago and it was another female and we bonded over eighties cartoons. And I’m like, I found all the old Rainbow Bright episodes on YouTube. And she’s she just lost a family member and I knew she was down.
[00:47:20] And so I was checking in, how are you doing? I’m like, all right, I found all these episodes and I found this and that. And she’s thanks, I’m gonna watch TV with you, but, you know,
[00:47:32] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.
[00:47:33] Rowdie McMahon: across, you know, across the United States. But this’ll cheer me up. Thank you. So yeah, it’s simple, simple things that. I think we think about more now, like we’re spreading awareness more now.
[00:47:49] But it is important to ask because it’s really hard to advocate for yourself when, when you do need to be carried.
[00:47:58] Scott DeLuzio: Right. [00:48:00] And you, you brought up the, a, a great analogy of the, the Wounded Warrior Project logo. And for anyone who’s not familiar with it, I’m not sure how you cannot be familiar with it because it’s everywhere. But you know, but it’s, it’s basically two soldiers. One, one carrying the other, you know, kind of up on his, on his shoulder like that.
[00:48:16] But I don’t think anyone for a second would look at that logo and say, that guy who’s carrying the other one. Is thinking to himself, oh my God, this sucks. I hate this. I, you know, this, this guy is such a pain in the ass and I, I, I don’t want to be doing this. And you know, I’m, I’m just so pissed off at the world and, and everything like that.
[00:48:36] No, he is glad that he is able to be there for his buddy and able to carry him when, when he needs help and able to help him. It, it, it probably gives him a, a great sense of feeling of accomplishment or, or you know, purpose or, you know, some meaningful thing is, is going on inside of his head saying yeah, I’m able to help this guy and I bet you know, you as a nurse, you know, [00:49:00] a, a patient coming in to you for, for help.
[00:49:04] I don’t think you ever were looking at that patient like, like they were a burden to you. That’s your job. And that’s where you found purpose and meaning, and, and that, that felt probably felt very good that you were able to do your job. Looking at, at, at it from the other, other way around. You know, just because it’s something, you know, a mental health thing or, or even if a physical health thing, you know, and, and you’re just trying to muscle through it on your own.
[00:49:29] I mean, there, there are people who actually care and want to help and, you know, not that someone’s gonna necessarily carry you around everywhere every, every single place you go, like physically carry you around, but you know, that, that would be a little, little much, but, you know, yeah, sure. If you fell down.
[00:49:43] Yeah, sure. Some someone will help you up and, and if you need help getting to a couch or a chair or something like that, maybe they will carry you from, from that distance. And I don’t think anybody’s gonna be, you know, bitching and moaning about it. Like it’s, it’s gonna be a, a thing that, that people are, are glad that they’re, they were [00:50:00] there to be able to help, you know?
[00:50:01] And, and so, you know, don’t, don’t take that away from, from other people, I guess is kind of what I’m trying to get at, right?
[00:50:07] Rowdie McMahon: Right, right. Like the no, no man left behind,
[00:50:10] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Oh.
[00:50:11] Rowdie McMahon: yeah.
[00:50:12] Scott DeLuzio: You know, someone, yeah, someone, someone gets wounded or unfortunately that it happens, people get killed. And you know, nobody looks at that oh man, I, I gotta go do this now.
[00:50:22] It, it’s, it’s part of the, the job, it’s part of the, the duty. It’s part of, part of being human caring about people is, is helping them out. I, I think that’s what part of, uh, the thing that separates us from wild animals is like, the wild animals don’t necessarily care about the other wild animals.
[00:50:40] They care about themselves and how do I get food and how do I get, you know, shelter and, and all the things that I need, I’m, I’m gonna go figure that out for myself. And you know, yeah, sure. They probably have a close family of, of, uh, you know, other animals that they care about, but you know, die with everybody else and, and they’re going to worry about themselves.
[00:50:59] But that’s [00:51:00] not human. That’s not human nature. And we do care, you know, so, before we wrap up, is there anything that we’ve missed that, that you want to cover that, that we might not have got a chance to talk about? Anything that you wanna share or, or anything like that?
[00:51:14] Rowdie McMahon: I know we talked about find finding common interest in veterans and, and for me and like my mental health journey, and I, I’m sure you know this and I’ll make sure to get you some stickers as well. I, there was a a point where when we had first moved here and my husband was afraid. Because he an airline pilot and he was afraid that if sometimes he’d leave the house, that maybe he wouldn’t come home to a wife.
[00:51:46] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.
[00:51:47] Rowdie McMahon: So he would, he’d be doing check-ins and that sort of thing, but at the same time, you know, is something gonna happen? Will she ask for help? Will I ever smile again or fi really feel [00:52:00] joy, right? And they have an exotic car racing place here, and that was a birthday present. And he put me in a car and couldn’t wipe the shit, eaten grin off my face and had clicked to collect for him.
[00:52:15] And so did some research. He knew how to build a race car, this like long history of his family racing cars and motorcycles and all these things. And so like before I knew it, we, we joined a amateur road racing league that required you to switch drivers every couple hours. And after the first race, I’m like, you know, we need to share this with others. If this can bring me joy and we’re in the pits and the garage area and the teams next to us and some, a lot of ’em are veterans and they get together and they build a race car and they go for a long weekend. We’re talking seven, eight hour race days. [00:53:00] And you all have to work together. You want everything mechanically to work, right?
[00:53:04] You have pit stops, you gotta change tires, you gotta refuel. Like everything has to work, right? You gotta communicate with the driver, make sure they’re healthy and you know, everything’s working right. And we wanted to bring that to other veterans to give them that camaraderie and maybe maybe they didn’t grow up with racing or know how to build a race car. Right. Or maybe they like to work on cars. And so now we have two race cars. And February for the race in Sonoma, that’ll be the first time we bring two race cars to the truck.
[00:53:39] And I have three other veterans that we’re working on putting in, in one of the race cars. And and so we’re basically building a family support and veteran race car team and go have fun and other fun people. And at the end of the race day, we all get together [00:54:00] with the other teams eating food. Those who drink can drink, but yeah, and we’re all just telling stories and shooting the shit like veterans and civilians alike and bonding over this. And so I know like a lot of veterans, we, we have that adrenaline side to us too. And that was one of the few, few things I noticed that while driving the race car, because you have to focus, you have to focus on your next turn, your braking markers, who’s around you in the other race cars and then what’s my, my fuel gauge, what’s the temperature?
[00:54:38] All these different things. It didn’t have time to be hypercritical in my head or worry about those thoughts. It just shut up for once. It just shut up, you know? And and you had to be present in your body too. Hey, my mouth’s a little dry. Yeah, I [00:55:00] probably need to drink some water. Right? That is part of yes, your head’s on a swivel in the race car, but at the same time it’s like mirror.
[00:55:08] This corner. Oh, water
[00:55:11] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,
[00:55:12] Rowdie McMahon: And go. And so, yeah. But we, called the suicide crisis line and said, Hey, can we put this on our car?
[00:55:23] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.
[00:55:23] Rowdie McMahon: And it was right after they released the 9, 8, 8 number and then, you know, plus one for, for veteran crisis line. And they said, sure, we don’t have any money to give you. And we’re like, we don’t care.
[00:55:35] We just wanna spread awareness. Because racing saved my life. Wounded Warrior projects saved my life. They gave me something to look forward to. And that camaraderie, that friendship and like something to look forward to, right? Something fun. And so we raced with that on our car to spread awareness, to get others involved and share and just share that with other people that are [00:56:00] interested.
[00:56:00] So.
[00:56:01] Scott DeLuzio: Well, that, that’s great. And, and that racing, I mean, and it could be any number of things, but in your case it, it’s racing. I, I think it’s important for people to find that thing that lets you feel, feel some sort of joy again. And it’s hard sometimes, especially where, where you’re you’re, you’re stuck in your own head for years and years, sometimes in, in some cases.
[00:56:24] And, and people just, they, they don’t get outta their own head and get out of their own way. And eventually you feel like there’s nothing that will bring you joy or, or any sort of happiness or other positive emotions or, or, or anything like that. But you know, this one experience that you, you had, like you said, you, you couldn’t wipe the grin off your face and, and it was just, it was just there. And because you, you enjoyed it so much but had you not tried it and, and stepped out and, and actually tried to do that thing, you would never have experienced, you wouldn’t be doing the things that you’re doing now.
[00:56:59] [00:57:00] And, and you would, you’d be you know, back a few steps in, in this journey. Right? And so, I think the kind of takeaway from there is, you know, maybe racing doesn’t sound appealing to a listener. Okay, that, that’s fine. It’s not for everybody. There, there’s a lot of things though that are out there, and the important thing is that you, you try something and even if you think that maybe it’s not gonna be for you, may, maybe it will be, just give it a shot and see.
[00:57:27] And, and when you do that, eventually you’ll find things. That do spark some sort of joy that do give you that, that smile that you just can’t wipe off. And when you find it, latch onto it and, and keep going with it, right? Because there’s, there’s no there’s no way of getting that just by sitting at home in your own head, not, not doing anything, you know, so it’s, it’s a good thing that you found it.
[00:57:55] Rowdie McMahon: Yeah, I’m really glad we like found that and that just kinda, you know, it was an [00:58:00] epiphany really, but better. But every great idea starts with what, like that light bulb moment and Yeah. And going from there. And we’ve even had friends come out that they’re like, oh, I wish I could drive, but I get car sick.
[00:58:14] Okay, but you like to take photos and video. Come hang out with us. And they’re like, that was really fun. Okay, I see you like what you guys do all day. You’re really working for a common goal. Like you have a mission and Yeah. And then at the end of the day, close, you know, you close the garage doors and then it’s time for fun and hanging out and yeah.
[00:58:34] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And, and that, that’s a great point too. You know, you don’t necessarily have to be driving, you don’t necessarily have to be doing, you know, you could be doing something else that’s related to it and, and you know, like you said, taking pictures or, or whatever like that, that’s cool too. And if that’s your thing, then, then do it, and, and find the, the thing that you, you like and, and the thing that brings you some joy.
[00:58:55] So, but this has been great. This has been a great conversation. A lot of great [00:59:00] resources and I will have links to all the stuff. Obviously you can go to the Wounded Warrior Project website you know, that, that’s pretty easy to find. But I’ll, I’ll have links to, uh, the various programs that we, we talked about and, and things like that.
[00:59:11] So, any of the listeners who are interested. Uh, joining up with any of those they, they can find out more information. Is there anything else outside of the the website that, that we, we should be aware of as far as the, the listeners go for resources or anything like that?
[00:59:24] Rowdie McMahon: No, just, and if you, you’re not sure, like what? Your needs or what you want. Like I said, just call the resource center because they’re gonna help you figure that out and they’ll set you in the right direction because there’s so many programs I haven’t even experienced and getting together with other warriors, you learn things.
[00:59:45] You’re like, oh, that sounds fun, or I wanna try that, and so it just kind of just opens up a whole, whole new world.
[00:59:52] Scott DeLuzio: That’s awesome. And yeah, so. Definitely check out that, that resource center for the listeners and and, and Rowdie, [01:00:00] thank you so much again for coming on the show and and sharing your experiences. I know it’s not always the easiest thing to, to share, but you know, you opening up and sharing, hopefully someone else hears your story and, and it resonates with them and, and that that’s the spark that gets somebody else you know, off the couch and, and into a better, happier way of living.
[01:00:19] So thanks so much.
[01:00:20] Rowdie McMahon: Thank you, Scott.