Episode 563 Suzanne Smith Four Ways Veterans Can Serve Again Transcript

This transcript is from episode 563 with guest Suzanne Smith.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: There’s a strange kind of quiet that hits after you take that uniform off for the last time after there’s no more formation, no clear left and right limits, no built-in crew that already gets you and life just keeps moving. But the mission feeling can fade real fast and the gap can mess with your head, your mood, and how you even show up at home, at work, and other places in your life.

[00:00:24] Now there could be a different kind of momentum. The kind where your skills still matter, your standards still matter, and the community that you hang around with feels like a place that you’re building instead of just surviving. In today’s guest, Suzanne Smith lays out a simple framework that makes service doable again, even with a full schedule.

[00:00:46] We’re gonna talk about the four tees of true change-making, why veterans tend to be the best fixers in the nonprofit spaces, and how emotional intelligence turns into real resilience and a 30 day plan [00:01:00] that starts small, but builds into habits that stick. This is where we can find our mission shifting and.

[00:01:08] Still stay the course and and create something, uh, that we can be proud of. But before we begin with this episode, I want to take a moment to raise awareness for something that’s deeply important to our community. The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism.

[00:01:32] This memorial will be both a tribute to those who have served and. A way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

[00:02:02] Hey Suzanne, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here. Yeah, I’ve been looking forward to this conversation.

[00:02:09] Suzanne Smith: Me too. I have been for a while. I think this is gonna be funny. You’ve asked some really good questions, some tough ones. And for a professor, you know, I have a very high bar as far as like tough questions. And you have definitely done a role reversal. I feel like I’m a student right now.

[00:02:22] Scott DeLuzio: Oh, excellent. That, that, that’s maybe a first I’ve ever gotten that, but I’m, I’m stumping the teacher, you know.

[00:02:28] Suzanne Smith: You’ll, you’ll tell me if I get an A plus at the end with my answers, so we’ll, we’ll leave that at the very end for people to stick with us.

[00:02:34] Scott DeLuzio: I’ll get my red pen out and everything, you know.

[00:02:38] Suzanne Smith: Perfect. I love it.

[00:02:40] Scott DeLuzio: all right, so before we get into the episode and kind of everything that we’re gonna talk about today, can you just introduce yourself a little bit for the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with you, share a little bit about your, your background and, and a little bit of who, who you are.

[00:02:52] Suzanne Smith: Absolutely. So, so I already mentioned I’m a professor. So I actually get the luxury of teaching. I actually tell people it is [00:03:00] my fountain of youth. That it keeps me young. And I teach both undergrads and MBAs, but I also teach exec ed. And so I’ve been so fortunate that a number of my students have been veterans and in fact my top student last year was a veteran and we still stay in touch. But I also, in my day job I’m a consultant and I get to work with a lot of organizations, including those who directly serve. Veterans, but also have as a part of their group of people who they serve veterans. I’m also keynote speaker and get a chance to travel the country, the world actually, and, and talk to people about change making, which is my favorite topic. So. I’m excited to be here, excited to tackle this particular topic with you and really try to figure out how we can channel more and more vets into change making because they’re already change makers. We’re just changing the terrain on them. They’re going from their normal day-to-day job into thinking about this in a domestic context.

[00:03:55] Scott DeLuzio: Right, and I, I think for a veterans that [00:04:00] I’ve spoken to anyways, the. Change from military life to civilian life when they, they take that uniform off for the very last time and they’re, they’re no longer a, you know, soldier, an airman, a marine, a, a sailor, whatever the, the case may be. And then they are now civilian, just regular old person that, you know, has no rank or title or anything like that, and they’re, they’re.

[00:04:25] Moving on with their life, either going back to school or getting a job. And so that, that’s a big change that sometimes blindsides some, some of these veterans that they don’t realize how big of a change it is until they’re in the middle of it and they realize that, Hey, I’m, I used to be, you know, pretty high ranking and now I’m just the same as anybody else.

[00:04:50] And and, and so. That, that’s, that’s a big adjustment for some folks. So, first thing I wanted to, to talk about as far as changemaking [00:05:00] is you, you teach the the four Ts of true changemaking. And I’d like for you to walk us through each one of these ts and how veterans can, can use it to choose a direction after leaving the Mil military and, and starting that second phase of life, if you will.

[00:05:18] Suzanne Smith: Well, I love this question and while I didn’t serve in the military myself my grandfather did. And like I said, I have many students in my classroom who were veterans and then some of my favorite staff members at nonprofits are vets. And they bring this discipline and skillset to the workplace.

[00:05:36] And so I’m gonna kind of tackle this in a lot of different places. And I’d love your help too, because

[00:05:40] you probably have seen this because I would consider you a changemaker. I mean, you’ve been doing this podcast that’s changemaking like you have. Provided a service free of charge to people. And so, you know, that’s your own version of taking this skillset and helping other people. So really I think about it from a direction perspective. So, I have a podcast [00:06:00] a TED talk called Everyone’s a Changemaker. So I call these everyday changemakers. So one of the things people I think misinterpret, you know, so, and I see this in my classroom is they think you have to have a title or a uniform in your case. To be a, and the truth is everybody can be a changemaker. So you mentioned the four Ts, and so I’ll walk this through from a kind of everyday change making, so it’s time, talent, treasure, and testimony. So think about it from a time perspective. So if you have time you can just show up and give back to a person or an organization. My favorite way for veterans to give back is really twofold. One is mentorship. I don’t know if you know this, but, and Big Brothers Sisters actually have too few people mentoring with them. So they have more people who are interested, particularly young men. And as you’ve probably talked about in this podcast, you know, young men are in crisis right now.

[00:06:53] They’re trying to figure a lot of things out. So having someone walking alongside them and giving them advice would be invaluable [00:07:00] to them. And I was a big sister and I can speak to that and I’m still in touch with my little sister, so mentorship is a great way to give back. The other one is being on a board of a nonprofit.

[00:07:10] I think that’s how you and I first connected is I said, can I channel all of your listeners to being on a board of a nonprofit? Because we have so many great nonprofit out there, and you guys have a million skill you could give to being on a board of a. One thing that you guys do, I think better than anything is you’re just really good at execution and you’re really good at logistics.

[00:07:31] And that is probably something that I would give nonprofits a barely passing grade on. They’re not as good an execution of logistics, so I can’t tell you how many times I have seen veterans come into nonprofits and serve on boards or staff members for that matter. We’re gonna talk about professional change making in a bit, and they like immediately like. You know, take the food bank that has a long, you know, waiting line of people and they have to wait 30 [00:08:00] minutes to actually get through the food bank and they turn it into like a three minute wait because you guys are just so good at logistics. And it’s just not how the brain of most social workers and nonprofits think or, or, you know, had a, a chair of a board and he was just the best at like, keeping the board on task and making sure they were doing what they needed.

[00:08:19] And so I would say time, you know, that’s a real valuable thing, but you guys have real strengths that you can bring to that. The next is talent. And we talked a little bit about that, that you’re so good at so many things. But the logistics part is the one that really stands out to me. And so, you know, veterans can come in and really transform organizations from a talent perspective.

[00:08:40] And it doesn’t have to be logistics. It could be helping them with their website. It could be whatever skillset, you know, you, you have and you wanna contribute. And there are. Organizations like Catchier and others that have a list of here’s all the things that nonprofit needs. So think a little bit like a match.com for people who wanna volunteer and people [00:09:00] who you know, have an interest in volunteering.

[00:09:02] And so you can go to your local volunteer organization and you can usually find organizations that are in need and you can just kind of look through the list and you can get matched with them. Of course there’s treasure. And most people, you know, think about giving the money away. And certainly veterans when they come back, sometimes they’re still figuring out their finances. But one of the things that I know is that veterans also have credibility. So I think veterans actually are listed as Americans as one of the highest trusted group out there from a profession perspective. And so I’ve seen individuals who don’t have treasure, a lot of treasure themselves, but they’ll go out and talk about how a nonprofit has made a difference to them.

[00:09:43] And it encourages people who do have wealth or more treasure to then donate. And so that can be really beneficial. And then lastly is testimony. So. We’ve all been touched with something. You know, maybe we have a family member who has a healthcare issue, or maybe [00:10:00] you were mentored yourself or maybe you’re just particularly interested in your own zip code and there’s something going on you care about. And so you can go on social media, you can go on tv, radio. You can go and actually be somebody who talks about why this issue is important. And again. You guys have that high credibility with people. And so if, if I think you’re right under doctors, if, you know, they say nine outta 10 dentists say this.

[00:10:25] I think if nine outta 10 military people say this, Americans are gonna believe it because you guys are so credible. So that testimony really matters. And so you don’t necessarily have to money or a lot of time to make a difference in your own zip code.

[00:10:39] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so. As far as the, the change making goes there, there are a lot of ways that you can make changes. And oftentimes the, the best way, the most impactful way that you can do some sort of changing from what I’ve seen anyways, is on a local level, like you said, in your own [00:11:00] zip code, in your own town, city, whatever, is finding something that you really believe in and.

[00:11:07] You are, you know, passionate about or you, you really think needs to be affected or changed or, or something and work towards that. And it, it, it doesn’t have to be a, a nonprofit necessarily. It could be

[00:11:22] you know, a, a problem that’s happening in your, in your town and you, you know, go to the, the town. You know, town council or you know, whoever it is that’s in charge of your, your town and you, you raise this issue and you, you help bring awareness to the issue.

[00:11:39] So, just as, as an example of, of something that happened in, in the town that I live in there’s a, a street, most of the main streets in our our town are, are straight grid type streets. And there’s this one street that’s pretty windy and. There’s there’s this one part where it [00:12:00] curves pretty, pretty sharp, and there’s a house.

[00:12:03] If you were to keep driving straight, there’s a house like straight there and they have like a, a kind of a brick wall, like a retaining wall kind of thing. And, and cars have driven into that wall several times and because

[00:12:17] just not paying attention or, you know, they’re, they’re tired or whatever, whatever the case may be.

[00:12:21] And so. These people who lived in this house hung a giant, obnoxious looking sign off the, the wall that people were driving into. Ba I, I forget exactly what it said, but basically saying like, you, you know, slow down. You don’t, you don’t live here, but we do and we don’t want your car going through our kitchen.

[00:12:41] Or, you know, something along those lines. And now there’s a guardrail on the side of that street. ’cause

[00:12:46] Suzanne Smith: Hmm.

[00:12:47] Scott DeLuzio: brought it to the attention of, of the city. The city wasn’t really doing anything about it. They put this obnoxious sign up. It was so huge. It was, it was like almost billboard size on this wall.

[00:12:58] It was, it was just a massive you know, [00:13:00] kind of an eyesore. But it got everyone’s attention. And then people started talking about it and saying, yeah, why don’t we have something here? And so the. The city went in and they, they made a correction and now there’s that, you know, kind of a guardrail thing, and they were able to make a change pretty much single handedly by, by doing that.

[00:13:18] Right. So,

[00:13:18] Suzanne Smith: I at a similar story where we. We have the similar streets, but on some streets you have stop signs and others you don’t. And there was

[00:13:26] no rhyme or reason associated with it. And so there were people who were just thinking it was a four way stop and it wasn’t.

[00:13:32] And so one individual emailed city council and said, Hey, you need to like. Give people some notice that this is not, there’s no rhyme or reason. And so they actually put little signs on that stop sign saying the other side does not stop.

[00:13:46] You know, so that they know you know, I’ve seen this also with you know, issues with people barreling through and they actually get speed, speed humps, you know, so that it protects children or the people with, you know, school crossings.

[00:13:58] And so I think those are just some things [00:14:00] that are easy things and they’re right in your neighborhood and they make a big difference. had a gentleman who was a a Vietnam vet who actually in our neighborhood, you know, we have a park that we all love, but it oftentimes gets frequented and it doesn’t get picked up by the city as often as we’d like. So he actually created a grid where every week one of the families in the community actually cleans the park,

[00:14:23] you know, and picks up all the trash. And so once a week, my husband and I were assigned to that park. You know, and so again, it, it can be a lot of these small things that really make a big difference to your community.

[00:14:34] And so I hundred percent agree with you that it doesn’t have to be starting a nonprofit or what I call professional change making, which is what I think a lot of people think about.

[00:14:43] The other example I would give you is just small acts, you know? So what about smiling at everybody when you pass them or saying

[00:14:51] hello? Or another example that I give people is like making sure you put away your grocery cart every time you go to a grocery store. Like doing these things of [00:15:00] like, to me it’s like citizenship. Like what do you do to model appropriate citizenship to other people? And so that’s also change making because you’re. Contributing to a larger society where all of us benefit from making sure there aren’t, you know, grocery carts all over the place and people say hi to each other and that builds community over time, and one person can. It’s the butterfly effect. One person can really make a big difference in that person’s life. You know, they could be having a bad day when they get that smile.

[00:15:32] Scott DeLuzio: Right. And, and so there, there’s lots of ways that you can contribute to some sort of change in, in your community, in something that you care about. It, it could be a nonprofit, it could be a big national nonprofit. It could be a, a local nonprofit. It could be it could be anything really. Anything that that matters to you.

[00:15:54] That, that I think is, is kind of a key piece of it because you know, if it [00:16:00] doesn’t really matter to you and you don’t really care, yeah, you can go and do it, but you’re gonna probably not put your full effort into it and you’re just gonna be doing it. But it’s not, it’s gonna feel kind of like, why am I even doing this?

[00:16:12] So when we’re talking about change making a, a again, transitioning outta the military, that, that, that’s a change in someone’s life. But that’s not necessarily the change that we’re talking about with, with change making. But veterans will. Will leave the military and think to themselves, I, I miss, miss things like the, the mission that we had in, in the military or the, the comradery or the the sense of purpose or meaning that I’ve, I’ve had.

[00:16:41] What are some steps that you might suggest to turn that drive for a, a bigger mission? Something serving something. Bigger than themselves into a civilian role or some sort of community project or, or something along those lines.

[00:16:57] Suzanne Smith: I loved this question because it kind of forced me to do a little [00:17:00] bit of math. In addition to it. So right now, one of the things we know is that there we’re a little, in a little bit of a volunteer crisis, we actually have the lowest numbers of volunteerism since we’ve had for a very long time. And so based on my math, you know, we have about 16 million veterans who are back integrated back into society. If only half of those people volunteered, we would actually have the biggest amount of volunteers we’ve ever had. And so that people power is very significant. And so that’s one of the reasons why I was so excited to be here, and I’ve seen it myself, whether it’s the students in my classroom or I forgot to mention when I was in business school, there was, you know, at least 10 or 12 people who I was lucky enough to be in business school with, that were former veterans or veterans, and going back to school during their service, and they were the most amazing people. And so when I hear I miss the mission, I think the question I always ask, and this was usually career related, but I think it can be related [00:18:00] to everyday change making, is really diving more deeply into what do you actually miss and actually doing what I call a values exercise. So I think one thing that I find is that most people don’t really do the introspection when they’re doing career work around what are our, what are my values? what I preach in my class, you know, and I preach this to my nephews too and my stepdaughters, is you need to work in a place where your values aligned. But you also need to volunteer in a place where your values aligned, because at the end of the day, you know, you want to have alignment between head art and GWOT, you know, and, and it’s different for everybody. And so I would ask, as a veteran, you know, was it the service that mattered? Was it the belonging to a larger cause? It could be the structure. It could be protecting other people and for them to really think about from a GWOT perspective, what was to get underneath that about the mission that actually was most meaningful to [00:19:00] them. And like I said, a simple values exercise I think can be so instructive. And then helping you figure out what aspect of military service do I now need to transfer to civilian life. Or to, from a professional perspective or just from a volunteer perspective. And when I ask that question to veterans, they usually very quickly are like, I liked the camaraderie, or I did like protecting people.

[00:19:26] And then it’s very easy from there to unpack. So now what does that mean? You know? So then I’ll suggest to what I did very recently to a recent veteran. I said, well, you loved protecting people. You live in a rural community, volunteer fire department. They need people, you should go work there. And they’re like, oh, I hadn’t even thought about that. That’s like perfect. You know? So it’s really about unpacking what it was that you liked about service and then thinking about what roles in the community professionally or in everyday changemaking that align with that head, heart, GWOT [00:20:00] alignment. So I’m trying that out on you. What do you think? Does that seem like it could fit.

[00:20:04] Scott DeLuzio: Oh yeah, absolutely, because. There are, I, I think any veteran that you, you talk to, there are going to be certain parts of the job that they absolutely loved and they, they wanted, if they can keep doing that forever, they, they would love doing it because it was, it was just such a great piece of it. There are other parts of the job that they absolutely hated, and there are, there’s just.

[00:20:31] There are certain things that drove them crazy and they, they didn’t want to do it anymore, and it just got to be too much war on ’em. And that’s, that’s what caused them to maybe separate from the military perhaps. And so focusing on those, those pieces, even if there’s only one or two little small pieces of the things that you really enjoyed and say, okay, what piece is that?

[00:20:54] Like you said. Protecting people that, that gave you like a, a super strong [00:21:00] sense of purpose and meaning. And, and it was, it was like a really strongly driven by your values and, and that’s something that you really enjoyed. So taking that. Piece of it and applying it to something else may, maybe it’s your job, maybe you’re, you know, a police officer, like a, you know, some kind of rescue type worker, whether it’s for the fire department or

[00:21:23] EMTs or you know, something along those lines.

[00:21:26] Even, you know, lifeguard at, at a beach or, or something like that. You know, there’s all sorts of jobs that you can do, some sort of protecting. Of somebody else, you know, even private security or, or things like that. So you, you can find a job or, or you can, like you said, volunteer fire department or there, there’s.

[00:21:44] Tons of ways that you can incorporate some of those pieces into whatever your civilian side is. And so you can, you can take that along with you and you’ve already found something that, that is that you value really strongly. And you [00:22:00] can take that and, and apply that to your day-to-day life. And, and I think that that’s just a, a super great way to look at it because, you’re right. Something you said earlier that a lot of times veterans don’t really consider those values when they’re transitioning out and they’re applying for jobs, kind of shotgun approach where it’s just like, you know, I’m just gonna throw a bunch of applications out there and whatever sticks is what I’m gonna take.

[00:22:25] And that doesn’t really mean that they’re gonna find a job that aligns with their values and their, their needs and desires and wants and all that kind of stuff. So,

[00:22:36] Suzanne Smith: I say this to everybody by the

[00:22:37] way, so even my students who are non vets, I say, you know, here’s the thing. I’ve never worked a day in my life because I do, I, I found my calling.

[00:22:46] You know, your job is your how, your values are your why, and if you don’t have a why, you can sometimes lose your way.

[00:22:53] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:53] Suzanne Smith: And so getting to this values exercise, I think is so essential.

[00:22:57] The other thing we haven’t talked about, which [00:23:00] I wanna mention, and this is an area where I do have a lot of expertise too, is that I’ve actually helped vet start businesses.

[00:23:07] Because I think vets also make incredibly good business owners.

[00:23:11] In fact the guy who actually cleans our chimney actually is a vet and he actually is on the volunteer fire department.

[00:23:18] And so when we had four or five people, we could choose immediately, my husband and I were like, we gotta, we gotta choose this guy. He’s a vet and he works for the volunteer fire department, who could be better? We didn’t even look at price. And so I think that’s the other thing I would encourage some folks to think about is think about a business and, you know, it doesn’t, the business could be your skillset. You can still do your why, you know, through doing that business and still help people. And so, so I think there’s so many different avenues and I think it’s just a matter of exploring it. And then I always recommend to people start small and build, you know, so when I was initially thinking about a career, I was thinking about being a lawyer.

[00:23:58] And so I then [00:24:00] interned at, at a couple of law firms. And honestly, none of the lawyers I met had lives. That seemed to me as if they were happy and many of them discouraged me from being a lawyer. And so that was a great example of what I decided not to do because I was like, you know what? This, even though skill wise, I was really interested and I could have been good at it. The work life balance, you know, the personal life part just didn’t fit the kind of

[00:24:26] lifestyle I wanted. And so I also recommend people to start small and build, you know, volunteer, mentor, start a small project. To me action creates clarity. And if you are doing that thing and your head, heart, and GWOT or aligned, keep doing it.

[00:24:42] If it’s not, then stop doing it. And, and so to me, I think that’s also another recommendation I make is it’s, it’s not a commitment. You can just try some things out

[00:24:54] and then see if it actually fits for you.

[00:24:56] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And a couple things there is [00:25:00] knowing what. You don’t want to do is, is probably just as important as knowing what you do want to do. And, and so that way you don’t, you don’t waste too much time on the things that you, you don’t want to do. But as, as far as starting small and, and I agree there’s a lot of entrepreneurs who are veterans who are just killing it because they’re, they’re just so awesome at what they do

[00:25:23] and they’ve.

[00:25:24] Like you, they haven’t worked a day in their life because they are, are just so passionate about what they do and they love the, the work that they do. It’s it, they don’t look at it as work or a job. They look at it as, I get to go do this as opposed to, I have to go do this and, and so. But for folks who have an idea for a business and they’re, you know, it’s kind of, kind of scary to go jump into the waters like that and, and start a business.

[00:25:49] But to your point, starting small, you can start a business while you have a job someplace else. And you can do it on, you know, nights and weekends and things like that, where, where you have some [00:26:00] time off and you have some your, your own free time. You can, you can invest into that business. Just, you know, a few hours a week here and there till things start gaining some momentum.

[00:26:09] And then you can either scale back time at your job and, and kind of, you know, work it that way. Or maybe you’re at a point where you can leave that job altogether and you can focus solely on the business. But but to your point, yeah, starting small is a great way because if, if you start small and you’re gaining no traction at all.

[00:26:28] Might be a good indication that it’s not the best business idea. You, you don’t want to go leaving your you know, full-time income where you may not be getting that kind of income coming back in

[00:26:40] Suzanne Smith: think that’s a great idea. In fact, you know, so I teach in the entrepreneurship areas in the business school. I personally recommend to my students to be an entrepreneur first before they’re an entrepreneur,

[00:26:51] you know, so learn all the hard mistakes on someone else’s dime while you’re still making retirement.

[00:26:56] And so if you. You know, if you wanna start, you know, let’s say a real [00:27:00] estate business, don’t go out and start your real estate business from scratch. Go work for a real estate business. Figure out again what you do, like, what you don’t like. Do you wanna do commercial? Do you wanna do homes? You know, where do you wanna work? And then narrow the focus and then you’re able to kind of help create the business that is tailor made for you or,

[00:27:17] and better yet, tailor made for you and tailor made for the market where there’s a market void. And so I think that’s the other thing I recommend to people is, you know, really thinking that through. I will just put in a a, you know, the idea of going back to school too. I think that’s an area where you know, veterans have a lot of benefits as far as being able to go back to school. I think there’s lots of business schools out there, and like I said, some of my best students were my business school students, and that gives them not only the entrepreneurship experience, but they get kind of the skillset that they need to say, like, what makes a good business a business. You know, like how do I create a market-based solution to whatever it is I’m most interested in? And there’s also a lot of good pitch competitions for veterans. [00:28:00] And so there’s ways that you can get startup capital as well that I think, you know, could be beneficial so that you’re not, you know, using your own savings, but you’re using, you know, lines of credit from a bank or other things.

[00:28:10] Scott DeLuzio: Sure, sure. Yeah. There, there’s a lot of options out there for, for things like that too. But and, and even there, there may even be some loan options available through the VA and other

[00:28:22] Suzanne Smith: There are. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:23] Scott DeLuzio: organizations other nonprofits and stuff that might be able to help with those types of things as well.

[00:28:28] So, you know, there lots of options. I, I don’t wanna go, go down that rabbit hole right now because

[00:28:34] Suzanne Smith: whole, that.

[00:28:34] could be a whole other podcast.

[00:28:37] Scott DeLuzio: So, yeah, there’s so many out there right

[00:28:39] Suzanne Smith: There are. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:41] Scott DeLuzio: So,

[00:28:42] talking about this, this kind of change where, where you have someone who. Had a, you know, that sense of purpose in the military.

[00:28:50] They had their, their rank and their, that title, that sense of importance, maybe if they’re, you know, a little bit higher ranking and, and things like that. I, I see this a lot of times with [00:29:00] officers who get out of the military. They’re used to being in charge of large groups of people and then they go and apply for jobs.

[00:29:08] And they are, I don’t wanna say they’re at. Maybe entry level positions, but they’re not as high up as they were expecting that they, they would be. And so the, the, I guess the, the question I have with that is, how do you help someone separate their, their purpose from their, their job title, especially after, you know, a, a career like being in the military?

[00:29:30] Suzanne Smith: Yeah. So, again, I can’t speak from my own personal experience, but one of the things I tell my clients is that I’m kind of half mechanic, half therapist and the therapy side of me, my mom was an LPC, so she, she, I think would say, and I would agree, that with every transition it’s gonna feel like a loss. And so I would just lean into that and recognize that you’re going through a transition. And one of the things that I know is when you’re living your purpose and your values based [00:30:00] roles just become tools. You know, I didn’t start out as a consultant. You know, I’ve had lots of different jobs in my life. And you’re right. You know, as I shifted from, working and then getting my MBA and then get after my MBA, I had to start at a different rung of the ladder because I decided to do something different. You know, I, I did what was called job switching. And so anytime you job switch because you want a different livelihood or you want to move into another role, you, you have to take a couple of rungs down in order to, to build yourself back up. So it was a choice. But I do think there’s a loss associated with it, and you have to just feel that loss and kind of have surround yourself with a support system. You know? So this is where I think veterans do a really good job of surrounding themselves in community and other people who’ve gone through that. I will say that’s one of the reasons why I like the nonprofit space is I know just based on my own personal experience. But also from all my clients, clients, they love working with veterans. So I do think that if you did decide to do professional change making, I think you could actually [00:31:00] shift into the nonprofit space pretty easily. And because there is that like I said, that order of credibility and all of those transferable skillsets, I think you would move in probably at a higher level than you would a corporate job. And you’d get a chance to do that changemaking that we’re talking about. So I would put in a plug for the nonprofit space ’cause we need more nonprofit professionals and I think the military is a, is a great transition.

[00:31:23] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:31:25] Suzanne Smith: but again, I would continue to ask ’em the question, what would you do if no one paid you or praised you for the work? And that should be the job they should focus on, you know, and that should be the role that they should try to pursue and just be laser focused in on that. And that would be my suggestion is to focus less on title and more on how you feel when you do that job, because that’s, know, to me title doesn’t matter.

[00:31:51] It’s really, are you making a difference? And when you put your head on the pillow, can you feel like I’ve spent. What I have done has been valued by [00:32:00] other people, and have I made a difference?

[00:32:01] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And, and I guess that that kind of goes into the next thing I, I kind of wanna talk about here is, is talking about em, emotional intelligence and, and how that can be used kind of as a resilience skill. And, and the, the reason why I’m, I’m kind of jumping into that is because if you are.

[00:32:22] Doing something that is against your, your values or, or not necessarily against your values, but it’s not necessarily in support of something that to, like you said, if, if no one paid you or praised you for what you did, what, what is it that you would do? If, if you are or if you’re happy and, and you’re, you’re fulfilled through what you’re doing, you’re gonna be a bit more resilient than somebody who is.

[00:32:49] Struggling to wake up from, to go to work and someone who is dreading the, you know, the, the drive into work and dreading having to go deal with their boss [00:33:00] and, and, and the pile of paperwork that they have to go sort through and all this stuff that they need to do. And they’re, they’re just. Mumbling under their breath that they, oh, this, this job sucks, and I, I hate this place and blah, blah.

[00:33:13] You know, they’re gonna be a little less resilient, I think, than the person who loves their job and who, who loves everything that they’re doing. Right. And so, you know, I, I, I feel like there, there are ways to kind of focus in on that emotional Italian in intelligence. But would you be able to talk a little bit about that and how that might play into kinda what we’re talking about here as far as change making?

[00:33:34] Suzanne Smith: I love that this is one topics, which could be a whole nother podcast. So I’ll do a quick summary of emotional intelligence and why I feel like it’s the next big thing. So we talk. A lot right now about ai, but the only thing that AI can’t do is ai. Like it has no emotional intelligence. And so we need people.

[00:33:55] And so, you know, the careers where emotional intelligence is needed is where the future is, [00:34:00] right? As far as professions are concerned. And so if you think about emotional intelligence, you have kind of four quadrants. And so you first kind of have two quadrants, which are related to self, and you’ve identified it accurately.

[00:34:11] It’s self-awareness. You know, so

[00:34:14] knowing how you’re feeling and also why you’re feeling that way, so being able to name and claim it. And so oftentimes people know they’re feeling off, but they’re not. They don’t know. Do I feel. You know, resentful because of this, you know, what’s happening here. And so really getting underneath the hood of like, why am I feeling this way? And this is definitely

[00:34:35] one of the areas where I think veterans may have a challenge because they have to bottle that up so much. Like they can’t really care about how they’re feeling. They just have to go, they have to be in the moment and do it. So when they leave, they have, they have this, I guess, luxury in some ways of kind of being able to feel what they need to feel.

[00:34:53] And so, and, and kind of claiming it. The next is self-regulation, which is the next step. [00:35:00] So I know how, how I’m feeling. So let’s use an example of something I’ve overcome in the last 15 years. So it’s probably something you struggle with too, which is when someone cuts me off, what do I do? Most people will say, I get really upset. You know, we, you know, verbally honk on the horn, whatever it is, and then your adrenaline goes up a whole lot, which by the way is not safe driving. Usually it gets in the way of how you are responding to other people and does put you in unsafe place as well as other people. So I’ve really worked on, I know this is an issue with me, but now I get to a point where I’m like. What if that person cut me off because it was a husband trying to get his wife to an ER

[00:35:46] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:35:46] Suzanne Smith: Or what if it’s a brand new person to Dallas where I am and they just don’t know how to navigate Dallas? ’cause it is really hard to navigate Dallas, you know? Or what if this person just was having a bad day? And so me [00:36:00] responding to them in a negative way is not gonna do anything. Most likely they’re not even gonna see it with tinted windows. It’s not gonna do anything but cause me to get upset. And why? Why would I wanna get upset about that? So I’ve now, I honestly, I don’t get upset when people cut me off anymore. And you can use this for all different examples. So why am I gonna let someone else interfere with my, how I feel in a given day just because of something someone else does that I can’t control? So that’s self-regulation. So knowing what bothers you, whatever that trigger is, everybody’s got their own trigger. And then how do I just not let it bother me? Like let it pass through me, like it’s not even a thing. So that’s self and honestly those things are really hard. And so I have techniques in my class where I work with people on self-regulation and kind of understanding what your triggers are. ’cause it’s unique to every single person. And then social, so social awareness and social influence. So that then involves other people. [00:37:00] So, and you guys get this because social awareness is really about team dynamics. How do you bring groups of people together and get them to like each other and wanna work together or not get along and not work together? Or they’re silent with each other and they’re not kind of coming together. And then social influences is large groups of people, you know. So this is where the military generals are really good at this. Like, how do you take a group of people and get them to want to do D-Day? So I did a blog recently about D-Day and just how everything worked out so well. But it was because Eisenhower just, he knew every single thing he needed to do to get social influence,

[00:37:40] you know? And it was a two to three year. A plan that went, you know, amazingly well, but it required a lot of social influence, getting different people to do their parts of the job and influencing them to be at their best.

[00:37:54] And so that’s really the four quadrants of emotional intelligence. And so [00:38:00] to your question, how does this plan to resilience? I think a lot of resilience is just knowing yourself and knowing where your triggers are. You know, so knowing what stuff like irks you more than anything else. And it’s different for everything, every person. And then in a work environment it’s also kind of recognizing what are some things that you struggle with and some of that, it’s usually related to three different things, the job itself. And so you talked about is it mundane, is it paperwork, is it interacting with people? It’s usually the people you surround yourself with, primarily your boss. The number one reason why people leave their job is because of their boss, not because of the company. And the third is the culture. You know, is it a cooperative culture? Is it a closed culture? Is it hierarchical culture? And all three of those things think of it a little bit like you know, the slot machine.

[00:38:57] Like all three of those need to be working to your [00:39:00] advantage. You have to like the people, you have to like the job and you have to like the culture. And that’s where you get the trifecta of my job, which is I love what I do ’cause I love the culture, I love the people, what people should be looking for. And it does require a lot of self-analysis.

[00:39:18] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and sometimes that’s easier said than done. For folks who are not that. Introspective where they’re not, they’re, they’re not prone to really paying that close attention to their emotions. And, you know, a lot of times folks come in out of the military, that’s, that’s not something we’re really trained on is emotional.

[00:39:40] Kind of stuff like that. So, you know, that, that might be a, a bit of a challenge, but it’s something that it’s, it’s worth taking note of anyways, and, and start paying attention to those types of things, those types of signals. What, what’s really setting you off? Like you, you were giving that example of someone cutting off in traffic.

[00:39:57] Like if that’s something that, that’s setting you off, [00:40:00] why is it setting you off and try to try to figure that out. Right. And. And that that can really help, you know, as, as far as your, your emotional wellbeing, but also you know, being a, a more resilient type of person as well. I, I, I think those are, those are great things to, to keep in mind.

[00:40:17] But another thing I, I was wondering about too is, so four. Veterans who want to keep serving, right? But not, not necessarily in a uniform service kind of role, that, that type of thing, but they, they want to give back in some sort of way, in any of the ways that we talked about earlier. But they’re, they’re stretched thin either, you know, they got.

[00:40:39] Their job, they have their family, their, their health that they have to take care of and their, their own, you know, kind of wellbeing and all those kind of things. And, and I know this is stuff that everybody has to deal with, right? That we all have our, our jobs, we all have families, we all have health concerns per, perhaps, and or, or wanna stay healthy or, or whatever it [00:41:00] is.

[00:41:00] But some people feel like they’re their plate’s full. Right, but they still have that drive. They, they, that call to service and that, that they wanna do something. How do you choose the right kind of thing to do so that it supports what they’re, they’re trying to do instead of just draining the life out of them.

[00:41:18] You know what I’m saying?

[00:41:19] Suzanne Smith: No, I, I think this is a great question ’cause it’s usually the most common one I get of like, I don’t have the time or I don’t have the money. And first I always start them with the science. And I think this was, we connected on this, the helper’s high.

[00:41:33] And so we know based on the science that helping other people releases dopamine and all the good stuff. And it’s really the only natural high that is real, you know, that you can get, and you can do and, and you feel it like anytime someone smiles at you, anytime you’re doing something for other people, you can actually feel it. So people know that it exists. And so the other thing too is at a personal level, it helps, but it also helps with connection, mood [00:42:00] regulation, like you said, we connect and resilience. And so sometimes having, you know, this place where you can go third place is what we call it, where, you know, it’s like cheers where everybody knows your name and it’s not connected to what you’re doing can be really helpful. In fact, what we find from people who have burnout is that it actually helps for somebody to have some, to do something different that is not connected to what they do for a living or not connected to their family. And it again, gives them a different social structure. My favorite tip. And I know that, that it’s right around Valentine’s Day, so this is always one of my favorite tips to give is you don’t have to do it alone. So one of my favorite dates with my husband is we go volunteer together.

[00:42:41] And it’s such a great way.

[00:42:43] And we usually do 50 50. We’ll go volunteer and then we’ll go to a movie or we’ll go do something together. It’s also one of my favorite family traditions, so you should be taking your kids and you should be volunteering with them. And so it could be you go to the local park and you just, while you’re on your [00:43:00] walk, you actually pick up trash along the way.

[00:43:02] I mean, that doesn’t take more time. And look at the example that you’re sharing with your children. Or you go to the local park, you pick up trash, and then you teach them like, here’s the receptacle for trash and this is what trash is, and here’s the recycling receptacle, and here’s where you recycle properly. Like, those things don’t takt time and I promise you they will get a ton out of it. And so. You don’t really have to have just huge amounts of time or huge amounts of money in order to make a difference in your zip code. Like you can do small things with other people and it just becomes a habit like anything else that you do. And like I said, it can be small stuff like just smiling at other people and returning your grocery card and making sure you vote. Like all of those things are everyday changemaking.

[00:43:47] Scott DeLuzio: Absolutely. And it, it’s funny that you mention you know, picking up trash at a park or, or something like that. There was a a guy I had on the show years ago, I forget for exactly how long ago it was, [00:44:00] but he was talking about how you can very easily tell the veteran in a crowd when you. You see someone who’s picking up trash on the ground

[00:44:11] that isn’t theirs.

[00:44:12] They’re, they’re just walking by and they happen to see something on the ground, you know, a, a piece of paper or you know, a, a soda can or something like that. And they just pick it up and they, as they’re walking, they, they find a trash can and they drop it in there and, and they, they just do it. And it’s, it’s done.

[00:44:27] And

[00:44:28] it. Because like in the military, very often you’re, it’s like, hey, just because it’s not quote unquote your job to clean this, if you see something outta place, fix it. Just do it. And, and. Then it’s done and it’s over, and no one has to think about it. No one, no one else is tripping on it. No one else is, you know, stumbling over it.

[00:44:50] And it’s not an eyesore, it’s not, you know, anything like that. So it’s, it’s very easy to find the, the veteran, if you see someone out there just randomly picking up [00:45:00] stuff that as they’re, they’re walking by you know, in the back of your head, a lot of times you can say, oh, that’s probably a veteran, because, you know, the,

[00:45:06] Suzanne Smith: No, I agree.

[00:45:08] Scott DeLuzio: behaving,

[00:45:08] Suzanne Smith: I, I, I tell everybody, there’s, there’s nothing more patriotic to me than, you know, doing your part in your part of the world, you know, keeping things clean, saying hi to people. I grew up in a rural community and like we would wave at each other, you know, when we went past each other in cars, you know, like that to me is patriotism.

[00:45:28] And so I, yeah, I totally agree. Like I can always pick. A veteran out. And even in my classroom, like I’ll have a, I have my first days, you know, usually, and I can always tell, like I can tell, you know, that who the, who, the veterans are in the group usually, and I’m usually 95% of the time. Right. Either they’re a veteran or they were raised by veterans,

[00:45:48] you know, like, you know, they’re, they’re a child of a veteran usually. So I’m usually right one way or the other.

[00:45:54] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and it’s just, you know, a different way that they carry themselves. Yeah, sure. The [00:46:00] haircuts are probably a dead giveaway too, but you know, those types of things are, are just ways that you, you can, you can tell just the way they, they behave and the way they carry themselves. So, kind of to wrap this, this conversation up about change making and, and things like that.

[00:46:14] If someone was like, okay. I want to make a change in my community in such and such an environment or whatever. And, and they wanted a, you know, maybe a 30 day plan for a, a change maker starting from zero. They, they have no network, no path to get to where they want to be or anything like that. What should their focus be and what, what would you.

[00:46:40] Measure to know that whatever it is that they’re doing is, is actually working. It’s, it’s moving them closer to that goal to actually make a change as opposed to just spitting their wheels.

[00:46:52] Suzanne Smith: So this was the a plus question that you gave me where I was like, okay, I need to do my homework and I need to think about this one. So I loved this [00:47:00] one. So week one, do nothing except just observe your behavior.

[00:47:05] You know, observe the things you’re doing, you know, the things that matter to you. So, for example, think about in your life, what are the things that. You know, get your, get your juices flowing, you know, and it could be. From a positive perspective, or it could be like, I wanna fight to fix this. You know,

[00:47:22] so it could be a relative who had a health condition and you’re like, I wanna end cancer. Or it could be positive where I was mentored and I feel like every child deserves a mentor. And just like pay attention to like what are the things you feel are so important that every kid should have or every individual should have? And then what are the people that you also need to surround yourself with? So I oftentimes tell my students, you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with. So it doesn’t require you to be emotional, but you’re just paying attention to like, when am I lighting up versus when am I kind of, you know, kind of wilting a little bit and you wanna light up as much as possible. [00:48:00] And so that’s really all you’re doing. Just pay attention. And if this is hard for you, you can ask people around you like, when do you see me light up?

[00:48:05] And when do you see me? Kind of wiled. ’cause they’ll

[00:48:07] know. They’ll see it. And so if you’re not aware, other people can tell you. And then week two is again, just do that small action, you know? So choose one thing, you know, and it could be, I’m gonna pick up trash when I’m out on my walk, or I’m gonna teach my children the value of recycling and why that’s so important.

[00:48:26] Or I’m going to have a a week of gratitude where every day I’m gonna choose someone that I’m thankful for and I’m going to send them a text, or I’m gonna send them an email or something along those lines. So whatever it is, and again, it can fit whatever t you want it to be. It could be the thing like you’re talking about where I’m gonna try to get a, a speed bump you know, I’m gonna fix this thing. Week three would be to just keep practicing it, you know, and just really, you know, seeing if I, if that thing can happen for you, you know. So for me it would be like no road rage. [00:49:00] Like I would be working on myself and saying like, what, what do I need to do to, cause with this situation happens, nothing comes up in me.

[00:49:07] Like I’m just a neutral body. When anybody cuts me off, which is where I am now. So whatever it is, or maybe I decide, no more doom scrolling. I’m only gonna hope scroll. Like I’m going to disconnect from all the bad news that’s out there, you know? So I have a policy where I don’t watch the news after 8:00 PM at night because I don’t wanna expose myself to, you know, I just wanna expose myself to happy thinking so I can get a good night’s sleep,

[00:49:31] whatever. It’s so I would say guard your mind. sure you’re in control of, of your space. And then week four would be about connection. So really figuring out something you could do with somebody else. So if there is a person that you’re interested in, like ask and say, let’s go volunteering together.

[00:49:51] I guarantee you when I was single, if someone said to me, we’re gonna go on a date and we’re gonna volunteer. That would be the guy I’d be the most interested in. Like that, that’s, that [00:50:00] would be unique and different. Or if you’ve got kids to say, guys, we’re gonna go for a walk and guess what we’re gonna do, we’re also gonna pick up trash along the way.

[00:50:07] So let’s get some trash bags and we’re gonna figure this out. You know, who can collect the most trash, you know, and get some, get a prize.

[00:50:14] So do it with other people. So you get that helper’s high with other people and then it becomes a habit over time.

[00:50:20] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:21] Suzanne Smith: So week one, self-awareness. Just pay attention to yourself. Week two, small action. Week three, just better self-regulate. Figure out what triggers you. And then week four, do it with someone else. Find a place to connect with.

[00:50:36] Scott DeLuzio: Awesome. Yeah. And, and that, that week one, it sounded to me as, as you were talking about it I, I, you didn’t specifically say this, but I, I think that it’s kind of in there is, is kind of like, just, just planning out what it is that, that you’re going to be doing. You know, by, by kind of just focusing on, on yourself, you, you kind of get a, an idea of what.

[00:50:59] What’s that [00:51:00] next step? What do I need to do? And it, it reminded me of a a quote, I think it was Abraham Lincoln who, who said this quote, but it was something like you know, gimme six hours to chop down a tree and I’ll spend the first four sharpening the ax. You know, so, so you’re, you’re getting the the, the planning.

[00:51:18] Done ahead of time. And so that you’re not just jumping in, just doing without a, a clear plan in place. You, you wanna know what it is that you actually should be doing. And so that way it’s, it’s easy to get into it. So you’re, you’re paying attention to yourself and, and, and your your, your beliefs and values and all, all the things that, that kind of go along with it.

[00:51:45] And. That way, you know the direction that you, you need to head, and so you’re not just jumping in the deep end and not really having a plan. Right,

[00:51:57] Suzanne Smith: Said it better myself. Yes, it’s you’re readying [00:52:00] yourself. It’s the whole fire ready, aim situation. You don’t wanna fire, ready, aim you.

[00:52:04] Scott DeLuzio: right,

[00:52:05] Suzanne Smith: So it’s the readiness phase, you know, getting yourself, figuring out the websites you need to go to, maybe talking to other people about where they’re volunteering. You’re just, you’re just exploring at that phase.

[00:52:15] You’re not really doing anything and you’re not committing to anybody yet.

[00:52:19] Scott DeLuzio: Right, exactly. So, and, and the other thing too about making some sort of commitment that you’re not really a hundred percent. Sure on is, then you, then you feel like you’re letting people down and that’s not a great feeling to have either. But I’ve also heard, and I, I, I don’t know the name of whatever the psychological phenomenon is, but when.

[00:52:44] You go and tell someone, Hey, I’m, I’m going to start this new thing, or I’m going to write a book, or I’m going to do this, that, and the other, and you get the praise for it. Oh, congratulations. That’s such a great thing. Oh, you’re doing, you’re gonna go volunteer and you’re gonna go [00:53:00] do that. Oh, that’s so great.

[00:53:01] You get the, the boost of all the, the happy chemicals as if you’ve actually already accomplished that thing. And then you’re gonna be less motivated to actually go and do it. So like you said, just sitting there by yourself and kind of being kind of introspective. Not really. Chatting it up too much, not really doing too many things about it.

[00:53:24] And, and that will, that will help you get a good plan and not lose steam when, when you actually you know, when it’s actually time to do it, because you’ve already gotten the the benefit of those happy chemicals going on, dancing around in your brain. You know, you’re, you’re actually willing to go out and, and start doing it too, you know.

[00:53:43] Suzanne Smith: Yeah, it’s, it’s what I teach my students like it’s a teaching principle. Like set the goal and create a metric associated with that. Find someone else to do it with, you know, tell somebody you’re gonna do it, ’cause then they’re gonna ask you about it. I mean, that’s how you get success with a goal.

[00:53:57] And so it’s all that stuff you talked about.

[00:53:59] And [00:54:00] so yes, I think that that’s such a, a wise way to approach this is kind of little by little, step by step, and then of course it becomes a habit and you’re more.

[00:54:09] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, and when it becomes a habit again it it’s gonna be so much easier to. Build that into your daily routine or, you know, your weekly routine, whatever it is, that however frequently you do this thing but it’ll, it’ll become that much easier for you and you will stick to it a whole lot easier as opposed to just doing it once and then never doing it again and.

[00:54:33] You know, that that doesn’t really lead to any kinda long-term satisfaction or, or, you know, good feelings, you know, just a, a one-off type of occurrence, you know? You know, it may be, may be good for, for whatever it is. You know, especially something, something that only is a one-off thing. Like, like you were talking about speed bumps installed or, or something like that.

[00:54:53] That might take a few. Efforts to get that done, but once when’s done, it’s done. And, and you’re not gonna, you know, have [00:55:00] the whole street be speed bumps. That would be obnoxious. So, um,

[00:55:03] Suzanne Smith: and that, that’s the other thing that people don’t realize is changemaking is addictive.

[00:55:07] So once you’ve done it once, then you think, okay, now what do I wanna do differently? And so that’s the thing I found is that people don’t do changemaking once they like get that speed bump and then the next time they’re like, oh, this thing needs to change.

[00:55:20] And they’re like, oh, I know how to do that. I did the speed bump. That was easy. And so now I’m gonna, you know, take on city hall related to whatever it’s and so yeah, Changemaking is kind of addictive. I think it’s that helpers high.

[00:55:30] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah, that that helpers high can. Again, be really addictive and, and get people to really take action and, and make some sort of changes in their, their community. So, well, Suzanne, with that, I, I want to thank you for taking the time to join us today, sharing your, your insights on Changemaking and, and how we can use that as we go forward in our, our careers and our lives and, and everything kind of post-military service.

[00:55:57] I know, you’ve worked with a lot of veterans [00:56:00] yourself and, and you have, you know, experience with them. And so, you know, I’m glad that you’re able to come on and share some of that that background and those, those kind of insights. So, you know, thanks so much for for all of all of that and thank you for being on the show.

[00:56:13] Suzanne Smith: Thank you. I mean, you really walk the talk. I mean, it’s, it’s very obvious with this podcast. And so I think my closing thought would be, veterans aren’t ever done serving. And we need you in this community. America needs you. It’s really the most patriotic thing you can do. And, and you’re not just defined by this one role.

[00:56:30] We need you in all these other roles we’ve talked about. So

[00:56:33] your mission has not ended, it’s just changed terrain, and we need you to drive on and do good in your zip code.

[00:56:39] Scott DeLuzio: I love it. All right. Thanks so much.

[00:56:43] Suzanne Smith: Thank you.