Episode 565 Carla Stumpf Patton TAPS Suicide Prevention And Postvention Transcript

This transcript is from episode 565 with guest Carla Stumpf Patton.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: A quiet calculation starts in your head. You tell yourself that you made it through the deployment, you made it home. Somehow it still feels like you’re fighting something that you can’t see, something that’s in your head. That fight sometimes will turn into isolation. Isolation turns into a spiral of thoughts and things that are just outta your control.

Then you start telling yourself you’d rather disappear than keep dragging everyone else through whatever it is that you’re going through. Now think about the opposite. Think about having even just one person who does not flinch when you say what you’re thinking. One person who stays with you long enough for the moment to pass, helps you find the next step and reminds you that you’re still needed here.

That kind of connection is lifesaving. Today you’re gonna hear from Carla Stump Patton, a surviving spouse and the Vice President of Suicide Prevention Intervention, and Postvention at taps. In this episode, she’s [00:01:00] gonna talk about why silence can be deadly, why talking about suicide matters and how everyday people can be the bridge that keeps someone safe long enough to get the support that they need.

She also shares what it was like to lose her marine husband when she was young, pregnant, and suddenly cut off from community. Then how she turned that isolation into a mission to make sure that other families don’t have to do this alone. And if you’re listening, thinking to yourself, I don’t have the perfect words to help somebody.

I’m not that person. Good. You don’t need to be perfect. You need to be honest. You need to be present. You need to know where the next door is when someone is in crisis. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to take a moment to raise awareness for something that’s important to our community. The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation.

This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the [00:02:00] global war on terrorism. This memorial serves as both a tribute to those who served and a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come.

If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT Memorial Foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode..

[00:02:32] Scott DeLuzio: Hey Carla, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here.

[00:02:35] Carla Stumpf Patton: Thanks,

Scott. Glad to be here with you and your audience.

[00:02:38] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely.

So before we jump into the conversation and, and kind of talk about everything that we are, are gonna be talking about today could you maybe just give us a little background on yourself, introduction about yourself and let our listeners know a little bit about you. For those who maybe haven’t heard of you before.

[00:02:56] Carla Stumpf Patton: Sure. Yes. I, my name’s Carla Stumpf Patton. I am the Vice [00:03:00] President of Suicide Prevention Intervention and POSTVENTION at taps or Tragedy assistance. Program for survivors. I am also a surviving spouse. I lost my husband who was an active duty marine back in 1994, so 31 years ago. He died by suicide at the age of 24.

We, you know, we were very young military couple at the time and that’s a tremendous part of really kind of my story and why I do

what I do and I’m hopefully here to help within our military community

for bringing awareness to the issue.

[00:03:31] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. And it, it’s a huge issue. And I mean, it was, it was an issue obviously back then you know. 31 years ago, like you said. But it, it’s continued to be an issue and unfortunately when you look at some of the statistics, it, it doesn’t really look like it’s getting much better. Like, there, there’s still an issue there.

And, you know, sometimes it, it’s, it’s frustrating especially having started this podcast with the intention of helping folks who are struggling [00:04:00] and you start seeing

these these numbers and these reports and everything, it’s like. Man, what, what are we missing? There’s something that we’re missing. I’m sure we’re gonna get into some of that stuff because I’m sure you, you have you know, kind of used your, your time doing, doing this stuff at taps and, and kind of figured some of these things out and try, try to make some good strides there.

So, tell us a little bit about your role. You, you said you’re the, the vice President of Suicide Prevention intervention, postvention at, at taps. What are. Some of the things that you, you do there and, and how do they support the, these folks who are potentially struggling with, with some of these things?

[00:04:38] Carla Stumpf Patton: Sure. I think it’s good to also help to understand in the bigger

picture. You know, we are, we are a nonprofit

[00:04:43] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:44] Carla Stumpf Patton: primarily many of us are either surviving family members or military family members. And or veterans. And we serve all, all, all of those who are grieving, the loss of anybody who’s ever served you know, across the different services, the different statuses of duty you know, [00:05:00] kind of different eras and all causes of death.

So, you know, in that regard, we have a very you know. A large order to fill, but my role specifically is really around that of suicide loss for those who are coming to taps who have been impacted by a suicide loss. But in, in addition to that, in the bigger picture, there’s a lot around kind of, reduction and prevention and intervention and education

that’s very much tied into what we would call postvention.

Which is the support after a suicide

[00:05:29] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:05:29] Carla Stumpf Patton: we do a lot in facing and internally with those who’ve been impacted by loss, as well as a lot of kind of training and consulting and helping in the bigger picture around

prevention, you know, advocacy efforts around reduction and protection

and prevention efforts.

[00:05:44] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I’ve had un unfortunately, the opportunity to speak with

several family members of individuals who have taken their life by, by suicide and, and. You know, it, it is just heartbreaking [00:06:00] to hear some of the stories and hear some of the just the, the things that people go through and especially in, in the aftermath you know, families with, you know, young children potentially, or, you know, other, other situations.

And then picking up the pieces afterwards. And that’s, that’s kinda what this postvention piece is about, right? That, that you were kind of talking about.

[00:06:21] Carla Stumpf Patton: Yeah, in

in large part, you know, postvention really refers to,

and sometimes it’s after a suicide attempt, but.

[00:06:27] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:27] Carla Stumpf Patton: In, you know, in this case after suicide loss. And it’s, and it really refers to the response, the support, the services, and the programs that are offered after a person or a

community has been impacted by a suicide

loss, which could be immediate.

You know,

[00:06:43] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:44] Carla Stumpf Patton: the sooner the better

[00:06:45] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:06:45] Carla Stumpf Patton: less time that people are in isolation and alone and struggling. So we wanna close that gap and make sure that they are. Connected that they are feeling supported, that they have the resources. And we know in the bigger picture of suicide prevention that those things [00:07:00] are crucial, you know, for, to reduce isolation and to kind of support connection and to create safety and, and get people connected to the resources and the help that they need. It’s really critical, you know, in the bigger picture because for those who’ve been impacted by a suicide, in this case, a suicide death, we

know that. Individuals can be at increased risk

themselves after being impacted by a

[00:07:23] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:07:23] Carla Stumpf Patton: whether it’s for other mental health concerns you know, substance use and addiction, suicide ideation. Because you know, the, the, the loss is so devastating. There’s a lot of trauma often involved, and there is just a natural element that people are already at increased risk. I say that with the caveat that particularly when they’re not offered really good postvention care, so the goal with that Postvention Care and Response is we’re always looking to reduce risk, create safety, and get people connected to the care that they need for the long

term.

Because that in itself can be preventative and

lifesaving when it comes [00:08:00] to suicide.

[00:08:00] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. It kind of, kind of goes hand in hand on you know how

tho those two work together, because

[00:08:07] Carla Stumpf Patton: Right.

[00:08:08] Scott DeLuzio: there’s somebody there to help you, to support you, to provide resources and all the things that you might need during that. Really difficult time is, is important because if you’re feeling like you’re all alone, you gotta deal with this on your own and all, all the things that.

That go into it, you, you are going to start to struggle potentially. And you know, obviously it’s a hard enough time as it is. We don’t want people to be struggling. Ideally though, we wouldn’t want people to be in that situation. Post a suicide situation. Right. The, that’s why I think the, the prevention aspect of the work that you do is so important.

I, I totally understand the, the postvention as well, that, that totally makes sense as well. But ideally, if we can get to a, a point where we are [00:09:00] preventing suicides from happening in the first place, then that’s even better. I, I think because, you know, one life saved is. It, it has a ripple effect, right?

When, when one person takes their their own life, it, it ripples out not just to their immediate family, but it ripples out to their coworkers and their neighbors and their friends and their, all these people get, end up getting affected and, and so while there may be support on that immediate family, there are other people out there.

And, and I know as someone who has lost people that I, I know to suicide as well. You know, there’s, it, it hurts, you know, it hurts to, to see people who were struggling and maybe you didn’t even know that they were struggling. And it’s like, well, maybe I could have done something. Maybe I could have said something, been there for ’em, or, or anything like that.

But, you know, it, it hurts the, those people who are left behind. So if we can. Focus that, that effort on, on the prevention side, that would be, that would be great. But I know there’s, as we were talking before, there’s some [00:10:00] challenges with suicide prevention. You know, what are some of the things that you guys are doing to work on the prevention side of things?

[00:10:08] Carla Stumpf Patton: Well, you know, I, I’m glad that what you just brought up, we’re talking about that ripple effect and we know, and from, from what research has told us, we know that, you know, around approximately 135 people, give or take, are impacted. By one suicide loss. And as you mentioned, it’s more than just kind of what we would call, you know, primary next of kin or immediate family members.

It is, you know, the community members, the friends, family, colleagues, coworkers. It could have been medical providers. All of these people who are now impacted, struggling with many of maybe the questions that you have. And depending on the nature of the relationship and the closeness of the relationship, some might be grieving more deeply or it may be impacted by trauma more than others. However, you know, the, the positive, you know, if there’s a positive that comes out of that, and I could speak, you know, for myself and on behalf of, you know, probably like tens of [00:11:00] thousands of survivors, you know, that we have worked with over the years, most people who’ve been impacted by a suicide death prevention, like reduction and prevention becomes a really important issue because we don’t want our loss to be in vain.

We want, you know, what our loved one may have gone through. To, maybe there’s a takeaway that there’s lessons that can be learned. So what can we learn from that tragedy to help with the, you know, the loss of, of other future lives that can lend itself towards prevention efforts. And I will say, you know, in the field, ofid, you know, the, the scientific study of suicide and what we know about that, part of what we have learned. About prevention, intervention, kind of like what works, what helps, what doesn’t help in large part has come from the people with lived experiences. So the people who have survived attempts. So a suicide attempt, survivor and suicide loss survivors, who in the look back and [00:12:00] reflecting on their personal experiences or perhaps, you know, their loved ones and their friends you know, we can’t bring them back, you know, so at this point, you know, people might wonder, well, like, well, prevention isn’t.

Not going to help them, but in the bigger picture, I think a good, an important message for people to know is that prevention many times does work. We just don’t hear those statistics as much. And when, you know,

for per every person we lose, they’re, you

know, they’re not, they’re more

than a number, like they’re like an N of one.

[00:12:30] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:31] Carla Stumpf Patton: my person. They’re not a statistic,

[00:12:33] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:12:34] Carla Stumpf Patton: statistics. It can be helpful when we’re trying to measure, you know, outcomes and if reduction is helping and if lives are being saved. But we oftentimes don’t hear the numbers about what really worked and when the lives are saved. So what I would like to talk about, like the success story is when people may have been struggling and they asked for help and they, they were able. Needs were met were they were able to get the treatments that they needed, the support that they needed, and their lives were [00:13:00] saved including those who’ve been impacted by a loss. And so our collective voices, you know, throughout, you know, I would say the, you know, the past several decades have really been instrumental in where we are today.

And, you know, having, you know, several decades behind me personally, you know, and professionally in the lookback, you know, we did not have. What we had just 30 years ago, you know, there was no veterans crisis line. There was no suicide prevention coordinators at the va. This historically had been an issue that was not talked about, was not addressed. And, you know, most of us were suffering in silence, including the people who were struggling, you know, with suicide thoughts and. Behaviors.

And so we have made tremendous strides. They’re never gonna

be enough because we’re still losing people.

[00:13:46] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:13:47] Carla Stumpf Patton: that knowing that it’s still not enough, but it’s better than, you know, it has been in the past. And this

is not an issue that’s exclusive to our military and

veteran community. It’s, it’s a human issue, [00:14:00] Right.

[00:14:00] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:14:00] Carla Stumpf Patton: nobody’s truly immune to that. So in the bigger picture, suicide’s very. Complex. It’s very complicated. There’s no single answer. You know, every person is individual. And as far as what their needs are, their struggles and what could be helpful.

So many of us, you know, even in the look back, what may have been helpful to our loved one, what we think might have made a difference, you know, we’ll truly never know because they’re not necessarily here to. speak for themselves, but we can be their voice and, and same for those who maybe have struggled themselves, that they can share their experiences about what was helpful for them.

It might not work. It’s not one size fits all, you know? So when it comes to some of these prevention efforts and different interventions and treatments, we need a lot of. Options. So if somebody doesn’t feel maybe comfortable going to their provider or you know, a certain agency or an organization for help, they need to have [00:15:00] alternatives that work for them. You know, if they’re worried about, you know, trusting the system or fearful about, you know, what help might look like. So the more we start by having these conversations. we kind of joined forces as, as we know in our military community. And in addition to, you know, whether it’s, you know, for active duty or on the veteran side with the va, we have, you know, so many amazing smaller nonprofits and individuals and organizations and agencies that are all coming together.

And, and now, you know, we’re talking about suicide openly and directly and publicly, and we’re addressing this. You know, in our conversations, that is a

huge step towards educating around prevention. So

we’re, you know, we’re on the right path.

[00:15:44] Scott DeLuzio: Right. Absolutely. And I think you touched on a, a key point there too, as far as not letting that death be in vain and maybe learning something from that experience that, that a particular [00:16:00] individual went through and, and how maybe there we can pull out a couple little nuggets of information that.

When you combine that with all the other little nuggets of information from all the other situations, you start to get this data. And again, absolutely every individual is their own unique case. But when you start aggregating a lot of this data, you can start to see patterns and you can start to understand.

Where there might be some useful efforts put in and, and you can start making some changes to programs or implementing new programs even that address whatever these issues are. And I know I know when there’s a combat death, for example the, the individual who, who died in combat, whether they were shot or blown up or whatever the case may be the.

Military will, will take their, their body and they’ll, they’ll do the autopsy and they’ll, they’ll [00:17:00] look at all of the body armor that they’re wearing, all the equipment that they had and all the things to see if there were any faults in the, the equipment or if maybe additional equipment could possibly have prevented something like this.

And, and if you look at the difference between the gear that troops were issued in, like say the Vietnam era to what they were issued now. It’s like night and day difference. I mean there, when I was in Afghanistan, it was like you’re carrying so much weight of just body armor, nevermind ammunition and a weapon and all this other stuff.

You just had so much body armor. But that was from hard lessons. We didn’t let those deaths be in vain. Just say, oh, well, you know, that person died. Let’s, you know, ship them off to their family and let’s, you know, kind of forget about them and keep. Going along as business as usual? No, we, we took the time.

We, we looked at the, in individual cases, aggregated all that data, and then we started to put the pieces together and say, Hey, you know what, if we [00:18:00] had better body armor, maybe some of these people would’ve survived. And, and they, they are, I mean, there’s, there’s far less combat deaths in the recent wars that, you know, the 20 years of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and, you know, all the other wars that were taking place around the world.

Far less than, than what happened in Vietnam or Korea or World War II or anything like that. And, and the time period was much longer. So you would expect that there would be possibly even more deaths during a, a war of that length. But there weren’t there, there were a lot less, unfortunately, where we’re losing people is when we come back home and, and that’s where it, it almost seems like home is more dangerous than, than war these days.

And, and so that’s where this type of information comes in, in Handy. And I, I don’t wanna say, you know, it’s a, you know, great thing to have because obviously you don’t want anyone to, to die this way, but. As opposed to just forgetting about it and throwing that away and all that information. Let’s collect it and let’s use it and, and identify [00:19:00] what could we do differently.

And, and you’re right, there’s a lot of new programs and a lot of things going on now that weren’t around 30 years ago, you know?

[00:19:07] Carla Stumpf Patton: Right.

[00:19:09] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So I, I know unfortunately, you, you had this experience yourself, which you mentioned you know,

as your. Profession what you’re, you’re doing now for work. I mean, obviously there’s, there’s that, there’s a close association with what you’re doing, but were you already kind of on this track to work with folks in this, this way or, or was this kind of your your new calling, if you will, af after the situation with your husband?

[00:19:41] Carla Stumpf Patton: Yeah. You know, so we’re, you know, going back 30 plus years, I was, you know, a really young military wife at the time, and I, I was in school and,

you know, we were achieving our, our, you know,

dreams as a young married couple, you know, homeowner. He

[00:19:55] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:56] Carla Stumpf Patton: a, a drill instructor. I was in school, you know, and we [00:20:00] also, the year that he had died previously, we found out we were pregnant. And so, you know, things felt like, you know, we’re making our way. As any, you know, young couple would, you know, the challenges within the military. And of course, you know, with his death, everything changed. and you know, it, you know, it’s a very long, complicated story as most of our stories of, you know, loss are, I will say it was profoundly life changing.

You know, as a very young military widow. I was also pregnant at the time. Within days of his death and, and gave birth several days after he died. And in those moments, I knew that I had to, I had to survive this somehow. I did not know what that was gonna look like when it was gonna happen or how it was gonna happen.

And, you know, for those listeners who are younger, you know, back then there was no smartphone, there was no Google. You know, we had, we had a phone book, we had a library. You know, we had to like, just. Depend on what existed. And as you know, it was hard enough being a [00:21:00] young military widow because then I also lost my entire military community. At that point, there was no way to find them. You know, we had to either have a phone number or write a a letter. with suicide loss. People don’t know how to respond to that. So I lost many people who were in our circle of support. You know, the military did not know really how to support or respond to that.

And so, you know, fortunately we had our family to be depend on one another, but none of us knew how to navigate this. But I just knew that it had suicide, had the potential to dis to destroy us, and I had to. Find a way for myself and my, at that point, my newborn baby, to survive and to somehow transcend beyond that, that somehow if I could do that, I would use my voice, know, for my husband who couldn’t speak to help the military in any way I could, if we could help address this, but also for people like myself, that they didn’t have to endure what I had gone through.

It was incredibly. [00:22:00] Isolating and lowly, you know, being, feeling kind of not having a place to belong and feeling very disconnected, not knowing how to navigate this path forward with, you know, the grief and the trauma, and understanding the complexity of suicide. And so that started my journey immediately just to understand, you know, the grief related to this. The trauma around this, how was I going to talk to my child one day? Un also understanding the complexity of suicide, like you know, around why does suicides occur? You know, am I the only one? And I found like, you know, I wasn’t the only one. And it was very hard to kind of find my military community back then at that time.

Now we can get people connected so much more quickly and the military is doing a much better job. addressing that. And so that started my journey and being kind of very alone on that, I realized I needed, you know, more education and more training because nobody

was gonna take my voice at that point, you know, as

a military widow.

Seriously.

[00:22:58] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:22:59] Carla Stumpf Patton: I knew I [00:23:00] needed training and education and knowledge and so be, you know, between all of that and building my own experience and using my own. My own personal experiences combined with professional experiences. That’s really what led me on the pathway. So when I finally found my way to

taps, because TAPS was around, but we didn’t know how to find each

other back then without the computer.

[00:23:19] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:23:19] Carla Stumpf Patton: when I finally found my way to taps, I was at a level of kind of like more subject matter expertise and professionalism. So I had the personal nature of the lived experience and then the professional. Background and the experience around suicide kind of education and prevention and, and grief and bereavement, I finally found my people that I knew that this could directly help the people in the military community.

So I will say, you know, on my journey when I did find taps, they were the first organization that not only welcomed me, that said. Also said we will support suicide loss survivors. Because historically we were not included in [00:24:00] resources. You know, in fact, we would be turned away ’cause we didn’t meet criteria or eligibility. There were no scholarship foundations, you know, back at that time. So it was, you know, isolating for many reasons, including the stigma, the taboo, the things associated with suicide loss. I am, you know, more hopeful than ever that that has changed. And again, you know, from the voices, the experiences, the advocacy of all of those within our military community and family members, veterans leadership is a vital part of of that.

And I will say. That is another piece that Taps is heavily involved with. It is giving a platform for advocacy towards policy change and legislation. You know, we have a team in DC that works tirelessly around that. So we include our family members survivors when we have those opportunities to lend their voice to give statements for the record. know, to testify you know, in front of Congress. So anytime [00:25:00] we can do that, it’s been extremely beneficial. We’ve given, you know, actionable recommendations and work closely with, you know, the secretaries of the VA with the department, suicide prevention office, and everybody in between, you know, across different branches, you know, high ranking leadership. Who will come to taps, particularly if there has been a loss or losses or in the, in the veteran community where they include us in the conversations, to contribute any type of, you know, expertise, knowledge, the voices, so that together you know. We kind of, as a united front, it’s lending itself towards, you know, improved services, breaking down some of those barriers and

obstacles so people are more likely to seek the care

that they would have in the past.

[00:25:48] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and that

is an important piece there because.

Way back when talking about suicide was very taboo and it wasn’t [00:26:00] a, a thing that people were very comfortable with. And it’s still to some extent that way today, but, but it was much more so years ago, and I think we’ve understood that. Like we can’t just ignore it.

We have to start talking about it. We have to do something about it. Otherwise it’s just gonna keep happening and we’re not gonna make any progress here. And so. Having these conversations and, and these programs and, and all the things that are available now, allow us to make some progress and try things out.

See what works, see what doesn’t work, what, what’s helpful in, in the whole grand scheme of things. Because if we’re just ignoring it and pretending it doesn’t exist, or not providing support to people because it’s a taboo thing to talk about, then we’re not. Gonna make any progress here. And, and that’s, that’s a, a big problem.

So, I’m glad to [00:27:00] see that the, the tide has shifted there and it’s, it’s away from that, that kind of taboo,

Approach, you know, or, or thought process that people might have. And it’s instead a lot more open and people are able and willing to talk about these things. And I guess from your point of view, I guess.

Two, kind of a two part question. I always like to, you know, talk about whatever the issues are, that’s great, but more importantly, I wanna know what to do about them. How do we prevent these issues in the, in the first place? And, and I know that’s kind of a. Loaded question because there’s no one approach, solution to any of these, these problems.

So there’s, you probably have a lot of tools in your tool belt as, as far as the, the day-to-day work that you do. But on one side, on the prevention side, are there any things that stand out as. Really promising, really effective, [00:28:00] really helpful. And then also on the, the postvention side, you know, things that are really helping those who are left behind kind of on, on both fronts.

I, I, I’m interested in, in seeing what, what have you found to be kinda the most effective?

[00:28:15] Carla Stumpf Patton: Store and I

think you know where we, the previous segment when we were talking

about. Stigma and the taboo. I think that’s a tremendous part of this shift. And not just around the stigma, but oftentimes the silence and the shame attached to that because we know with suicide that silence in many cases can be fatal. And so shifting that conversation to say, you know, not only do we need to, you know, kind of shift to. De-stigmatizing, no judgment, no shame to invite the dialogue that it, you know, to take a com, a kind of complicated, really complex issue, such as suicide. Not to [00:29:00] simplify it, but. Having a conversation can be the first part of saving a life, but that can be really difficult if people are not comfortable saying the word suicide or asking about suicide.

You know, you know, I’m just concerned. Something seems off. Are you thinking about suicide? That’s usually one of the hardest things for people to do, is to ask the question because they can, you know, have some concerns. They’re, they’re worried, they see some changes, but taking it the next. Stepped asking about it, and so kind of exploring like, well, why is that, you know, why are we kind of stopping at that point and kind of afraid to ask the question?

Because usually people are, might be fearful about, well, what do I do if someone says yes? Because then it feels like, is the, is the burden on me to save the person’s life? Is it, does that rest on me to answer all of these questions and find out what’s gonna help? You know, to be lifesaving for them. And that’s the part that we have to just, I think when we send the message to one another that nobody’s in this alone, including the person who might be struggling with [00:30:00] thoughts and or emotional crisis, but also maybe, you know, myself, the person in the role of the supporter, the caregiver, the friend, that we are not alone either.

That it’s a lot to carry that, because if we’re worried about someone’s life and we fear like it’s all on me, and if something happens, you know. Unfortunately with suicide, there’s a lot of finger pointing and you know, who, why, what, why didn’t, why wasn’t more done? And believe

me, like we all do that to ourselves because we want to know an answer about why this could have been prevented. but when we can join together and kind of do our own part, you know, I think it. It takes a little bit of the stress off to know that, you know, as anybody can be,

take part in prevention efforts. So let me say that first, you don’t have to be a medical provider or a clinician, a psychiatrist, you know, it’s all of that combined, depending on what that person needs.

But an everyday caring person can be just as instrumental and, and we know that in many cases, I think in the, [00:31:00] you know, the veteran, the military community, people are much more likely to go to a peer, a colleague, a battle buddy. Before they might even go to a doctor. So if we are the front line of support, you know, we just need to be more comfortable hearing those conversations and, and acknowledging I don’t have all the answers, but I’m here and I wanna listen.

I wanna support you. So anything we can do to keep that dialogue open, you know, so that would include like less, you know, like kind of judgment free, stigma free shame free. Listening and then knowing what the resources are and connecting, you know, to say, I don’t have all those re I don’t have all the answers, but I can help get you to the next step and we’ll do that together.

So kind of making it manageable too. So let’s, can we just find a ways to stay safe for now? ’cause I don’t know what’s gonna happen in a, a week or a month and maybe we don’t know what’s gonna be the resolution to all of the life stressors or what’s gotten that person to that. Point. But in the moment, if we can find ways to try to stay [00:32:00] safe for the time being until maybe a crisis can stabilize or we can get connected to help, it can, it can be tremendous as far as like a life saving effort.

So I, anybody can take part in that. It doesn’t always have to be, know, some, you know, fundamental, you know. that

seems like it’s so enlightening, like this was the answer that saved their life. We

all could take part in that.

[00:32:23] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:32:24] Carla Stumpf Patton: And starting these conversations and more and more organizations that now are making this a priority are all, you know, positive steps in that direction between, you know, the Department of Suicide Prevention’s office and, and the va and everybody in between where this is. One of the leading priorities between manpower and research and funding that it’s it’s a priority, which is really important to see. It’s, you know, it can never happen fast enough, and even then we need. We also need people trained adequately to [00:33:00] understand, you know, the nuances around not just reduction and prevention, but what’s really helpful for, for different treatments. and I think overcoming the obstacles that people might. Be facing around trusting the system. Even if it’s their own stigma about what help looks like, you know, it could be

stigmatizing to ask for help and within, you know, our military

That’s always been really

[00:33:27] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:33:28] Carla Stumpf Patton: because on one hand, the. The attributes that make that service member so valuable, say, you know, you talked about in times of conflict or war and combat, the things that are lifesaving at that point. You know, able to run into a, a time of battle with courage and selflessness and to put your lives on the line to save and protect other

people on the home front. Can be one of

the biggest detriments,

[00:33:58] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:33:59] Carla Stumpf Patton: right. And [00:34:00] so there’s, you know, like they’ve survived this horrible situation in some cases, whatever, you know, whatever the experiences may have been. And, and on the home front now dealing with the stress of that any of us could deal with. then you add the experiences within the military culture that can be really unique. It’s hard for other people to understand and for the service member or the veteran to feel, you know, that. You know, I, I’m, whether it’s kind of beyond help or the situation’s helpless or, you know, I’m the burden, people would be better off without me. You know, it, it can manifest itself in many different ways, but sometimes the, the strongest line of support could be that fellow veteran or that peer, and so that’s a, I think a huge asset when it comes to prevention.

You know, we’re seeing that more and more programs that. Kind of rely and promote peer-based support in addition to rest of the, the help for the rest of the way. ’cause the peer connection might be the

one thing that could get somebody [00:35:00] connected

to the next level of care that they need.

[00:35:02] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:35:02] Carla Stumpf Patton: So just being more aware of that and how everyday conversations can be helpful,

but we need to get that conversation

into those people’s

[00:35:12] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:35:13] Carla Stumpf Patton: as well.

[00:35:14] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

[00:35:15] Carla Stumpf Patton: lemme take a

break. I know you wanted to ask about on the post mention side,

[00:35:18] Scott DeLuzio: sure.

[00:35:18] Carla Stumpf Patton: thoughts about that first?

[00:35:19] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I, I did actually. And

one of the, the things that you were saying, you know, just now was about the. Individuals who, they’re not necessarily medical providers or anything like that, but just maybe a friend, maybe a, you know, colleague or, or something, you know, they’re, they’re just somebody in somebody else’s life who might be struggling and just having someone to have a conversation with and being okay with having that conversation, not feeling embarrassed by.

Whatever they’re going through or feeling like they’re a burden or anything. One of the things I, I’ve said before is that if [00:36:00] you are struggling with something, or sorry if, if somebody else in your life was struggling with something and they came to you and they said, Hey, I need help with whatever, it’s, it doesn’t even have to be suicide things.

It’s like, Hey, my finances are a mess, or My marriage is a mess, or my whatever thing. They come to you with a problem. And if they’re, they’re either a good friend or a family member or something like that. You’re not gonna sit there and think to yourself, my gosh, I can’t believe this guy’s coming to me.

And, and he’s, he’s talking to me about these things. Like, just leave me alone for crying out loud. Like this, this is too much. Like, just leave me alone. You’re, you’re being such a, a pain right now. Like, of course not, you’re not gonna think that of anybody who’s, who’s coming to you with, with those types of things.

You know, especially if it’s someone who, who you care about, you’re gonna, you’re gonna care that that person gets the help. That they need and you’re gonna talk ’em through it and, and, and help them through whatever it is that they’re having a problem with. That’s just what friends, that’s what family, that’s what these people do.

And so when you have someone [00:37:00] who’s sitting there struggling with, do I want to kill myself or not? Gotta imagine if they go to a friend or a family member or something like that. They’re not, those other people are not gonna look at that person as a burden. They’re gonna, they’re gonna say, well, thank God you came to me.

You know, thankfully you, you were, you were strong enough, brave enough, willing enough to be able to come to me.

[00:37:24] Carla Stumpf Patton: Right.

[00:37:25] Scott DeLuzio: and having conversations with, with people. It doesn’t matter, you know, what their relationship is, but just being able to talk to somebody is super important. Even, even in the, the platoon that I deployed with to to Afghanistan.

We had lost several guys after coming home to suicide. And the platoon sergeant that we had, he created a Facebook group and invited all of us from the platoon into the Facebook group, and we all could chat and share, share amongst each other and like, Hey man, I’m, I’m kind of struggling. Let’s, let’s [00:38:00] talk about it.

And, and, you know, people can come into this group and. Have conversation. Most of the time we’re, we’re screwing around and we’re, we’re just making jokes and stuff. But it’s a place where people can come to and there’s always someone there who you can talk to. And I, I know it’s Facebook, it’s not face-to-face, it’s not in person or whatever, but it’s, it’s there.

It’s a, it just another resource. You know, a lot of us have moved around the country, so we’re not all right next door like we used to be or anything like that. So,

you know, we’re, we’re all spread out. This is better than nothing. You know, obviously looking back to how, how things were 30 years ago, where, where you and your husband were

in, in the situation you were in, there was no Facebook, there was no social media or anything like that even smartphones or anything to be able to have these kind of conversations.

So it’s, again, it’s another tool. It’s just a way that people can connect. Is it. The best possible tool out there. Probably not, but is it [00:39:00] better than nothing? Absolutely. You know?

[00:39:02] Carla Stumpf Patton: Abso. Yeah, absolutely it is. It’s, I think

that’s a really powerful example about how we need a

lot of options, kind of like entry

[00:39:10] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:39:11] Carla Stumpf Patton: And if that’s the point where someone struggling, might go there before they’ll do an. Anything else. And you know you’re gonna have each other’s back. And even if you know you’re not gonna have all of the answers, but you know what, together, Hey, let’s, let’s call somebody.

I learned some resources because you know what we want people to know again, that in many cases suicide is preventable.

[00:39:31] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:39:32] Carla Stumpf Patton: And the message out there is that I think the false message and a myth is even part that. If somebody is set on doing this, there’s nothing you can do to stop it. And we want people to know that it’s not inevitable.

I mean, you know, I mean, realistically speaking. I don’t have the answer that’s gonna save every single person’s life, but we do know what we have learned over the years around what helps, what can be a positive intervention that many [00:40:00] cases, and I can speak just from the work that we do at taps, you know, we have a 24 7 helpline and we deal with. high risk people who have deal dealt with extreme traumatic, you know, scenarios and losses in the majority of those cases with people who might even be in crisis and struggling with suicide, having that place to talk kind of stabilize that crisis and many times, I would say 99% of the case is those, those crises can stabilize where people feel much. more supported and, and to the point where now they do see some other options that could be helpful. ’cause in the time of crisis, you know, the, the mind can be very restricted in what it sees as helpful or as solutions. And so that’s why suicide oftentimes might be, seem like it’s the only solution. And so being able to. Even just in that time of crisis, to put some space, some time and distance between acting on suicide is where a life can be saved. And [00:41:00] so having something like a Facebook group to say, Hey, we care. We’re here for each other. We don’t have all the answers. And half the time, you know, we’re cutting up and, you know, sing each other, whatever it is.

But when it comes down to it, you would. Put your life on the line, but then you might need more information beyond that. So I would say in addition to that, when people can maybe have more training and maybe get into like a, a webinar or learn a little bit more about it. And there’s so much of that out there.

You know, at taps we have a learning institute or all of our webinars or archived and free and people can watch them. Of course, we do a lot of topics, but many on around the topics of suicide and prevention, intervention, postvention, you know, with family members, with veterans. our partners that are out in this space have incredible trainings that are usually all for free. So for people who wanna learn more about the topic and, you know, not to say that they’re going into the

field professionally, you know, that they’re not necessarily gonna have to work on a

crisis line, but just how to have a conversation.

[00:41:57] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:41:57] Carla Stumpf Patton: and when it comes up. So now they’ll know [00:42:00] what other resources are out there and so that nobody has to go through this alone.

And we want

people to know that those, those type of interventions

and connections do save

[00:42:10] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:42:11] Carla Stumpf Patton: And prevention does work. You know, we might not hear about it every day, but. I can say firsthand that I get to witness that every day where people are reaching out and they’re accepting the help. In the past, maybe they didn’t trust that.

Or what happens if I reach out for help? You know, like in cases with ACT or active duty folks, you know, there could be a lot of fear around that. Like, you know, is that gonna interfere with my rank or my clearance? In some way asking for help. So dispelling some of those myths and the messaging that comes from top down, you know, about what you had mentioned earlier, you know, asking for help is not only a sign of. Courage and kind of a commitment to yourself, but it means that, you know, we’re, when we’re being kind of. Operational ready, and we’re taking care of every part of ourselves

to be, you know, to give our a hundred percent of our best self. [00:43:00]

Our mental wellness has to be a part of that.

[00:43:02] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:43:03] Carla Stumpf Patton: so acknowledging that part as a commitment to, one, taking care of not only their wellbeing, but now your stronger member of the.

Team because of it. Just like if you had an injury or any other type of ailment, you would seek help for that to kind of recover, rehab, return, get back, you know, to the mission, so to speak. We have to look at our mental health in the same way, and I think shifting that conversation more and more, having this conversations, particularly if people share their own struggles, like, hey. And I will say some of the most impactful kind of, statements and presentations and things that I’ve seen have come from people in high ranks or leadership positions who did share that, you know, like I struggled too and I got the help that I needed. Now look at where I am, you know, you know, the Command sergeant major, you know, a four star, whatever it might be that they.

Might have struggled too, but getting the help that they needed in the [00:44:00] time only strengthened those life skills to have them have a fulfilling life and career relationships and going forward. So that can be really helpful to share some of those experiences that are kind of sending the message around, like help seeking that hope is possible, that the help is possible.

That that the help. You know, really does work that suicide does not have to be inevitable. So we really wanna lead with the messaging too. The messaging that kind

of promotes safety and upholding, kind of seeking the

help and that it really does work.

[00:44:35] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. and

Some of the resources that you were talking about, some of those webinars and other training and, and things like that like, like you said, it’s not necessarily that you necessarily want to get into. The profession of, you know, like what you do or, or anything like that. But it’s useful information to know, because when you need it, that’s not the time to start learning it.

You know, like, like I, I’ve learned how to do [00:45:00] CPR, I’m, I’m not gonna be an EMT or a nurse or a doctor, or anything like that, but I still want to know how to use it just in case. You know, someone a, a, a loved one or you know, a friend or somebody who I’m with needs someone who knows how to use do CPR.

I don’t, I don’t do it on a regular basis, but I know how to, if I needed to and. I think that’s kind of the same idea with some of these resources. It’s like, it, it would just be great information to have because it’s, you know, it’s kind of the same idea with a seatbelt in the car when you need to use it, it’s already too late to put it on.

So, you know, it’s you, you kind of want to know how to use this information beforehand, so you know, go. For the listeners, go check out this information and all the resources that are available because it, you never know, it, it may actually save somebody somewhere down the line and it, it may be tomorrow, it may be five years from now, but you never know.

And, and it’s better to know now than than to wait. So, so sooner the better, I think.

[00:45:59] Carla Stumpf Patton: [00:46:00] Absolutely. I would say kind of the cautionary tale there is as you, I, you know, could, if I may, is you don’t want to be in the middle of a crisis and not. No.

[00:46:11] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:46:12] Carla Stumpf Patton: that that’s, you know, it’s still gonna be daunting and fearful and it can be overwhelming. But the time to learn about this is before you’ve been impacted personally.

You know, you know, if ideally, so that if and when

the time comes. learned how to have a conversation or you’ve

learned about a resource, and I love that

[00:46:31] Scott DeLuzio: F

[00:46:32] Carla Stumpf Patton: In fact, it’s very similar if we’re talking about, you know, kind of like lifesaving intervention, the same we

we would do with CPR, you know, that a

suicide intervention is lifesaving,

[00:46:43] Scott DeLuzio: right.

[00:46:44] Carla Stumpf Patton: and so just like, we’re not gonna be the one to get them to the long term, but we wanna get them out of immediate crisis. To help stabilize that until we can get them connected to the long-term care that we need. We hope that we might not ever need that, but by having that training ahead of time, you know, we’re [00:47:00] informed. We, we

have some basic training and we’re one more person in that community that can

help with lifesaving intervention,

[00:47:06] Scott DeLuzio: Yep.

[00:47:06] Carla Stumpf Patton: know, if and when it’s needed.

So, you know, enough can’t be said about, you know, the training, the awareness and kind of information gathering basic education the

way you would with. the military community, all of your training, you’re

trained in everything. And so

[00:47:21] Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.

[00:47:22] Carla Stumpf Patton: this as one more piece of that vital training,

you know, to add to those skills.

I.

[00:47:27] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And actually just a, a personal example of

when, actually, when, you mentioned all of the training, it, it just kind of triggered something for me in my own personal life here. But one of the things that we learned just in basic training was how to help someone who was choking on, on something you know, from, you know, the basic medical stuff that you, you learn in, in basic training.

And throughout my entire time in the military, I never had to use that in that. Knowledge at all. But a few years later, after I got out, I had had children and one of my, one of my kids was choking on a piece of apple [00:48:00] and I was able to use that information even though I hadn’t used it in years. It was just like that training came back, it just kicked in right in that, that time period.

And I was able to, you know, kind of clear his airway and, and get, get him. Get the apple out of his, of his throat and, and, and, you know, saved him be, because I was, I had that training already. That, that moment though would be the absolute worst time to have to, you know, pull up your phone and Google.

How do I help someone who’s choking on, on something? You know that that’s not the time for it.

[00:48:32] Carla Stumpf Patton: we do at least have that

[00:48:33] Scott DeLuzio: We do, we do, right?

[00:48:35] Carla Stumpf Patton: you’re right. Because when, when kind of in the middle of

kind of a very chaotic, heightened crisis, it’s also hard for us

to kind of think clearly ourselves and gather that information. So trying to remain calm in the middle of a crisis and trying to take whatever steps we

can to help is gonna always just kind of be

on our

on, on the side of best practice, right?

[00:48:57] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[00:48:58] Carla Stumpf Patton: know ahead of time, right?

[00:48:59] Scott DeLuzio: [00:49:00] Right. Yeah. That muscle memory kind of kicks in and, and it’s almost like you don’t have to.

Think too hard to figure out what needs to be done. E even, you know, something with like CPRI mentioned like, if, if you know how to do it, you know how to do it and, and you’ll just be able to do it when the time comes.

You know, if, if you, if you have never learned how to do it though, you’re just gonna go based off of what you see on television and you may not know exactly what you’re doing. So, so anyways for the, the listeners who are out there who either. Have suffered a loss themselves with, with someone in their, their own lives who maybe they’re struggling and they, they just don’t know who to reach out to.

But now they’re hearing about taps and they know that TAPS is a available and there’s something there. Or someone who might be struggling themselves as far as having suicidal ideation or, or thoughts or even made attempts in the, in the past who are looking for some sort of help and assistance and.

They wanna reach out, they wanna reach out to taps because they’re, they’re [00:50:00] hearing about this resource. I think it’s a great thing. Where can they go to find out more information? Obviously probably a website, but you know, is there there information available that that is specific to these types of resources?

[00:50:10] Carla Stumpf Patton: Absolutely. I think, you know, first speaking directly, of course, within the context of our conversation, within our service member, you know, veteran military family, community, it’s centered around our military connection. But I will say sometimes we even get. Contacts from people who maybe are civilians and they’re not sure where else to go.

So in those cases, we still try to kind of partner and collaborate and refer folks out to other resources in the community that might not be military centered, you know, so if they have had a, a loss. of anybody who’s ever served. Of course, they have a home with us at taps, and we are the first to acknowledge that.

Also could include veterans, you know, who also are survivors, bereave survivors themselves, whether they’ve lost a family member, a battle buddy, you know, a colleague, a fellow service member. If they’re struggling with the loss, we are here for [00:51:00] them. Our, our, our services are not time limited. You know, whether it’s the day of a loss or if it’s.

10, 15 years after, it’s never too late. They can always come to us in between, you know, peer-based support. We have our 24 7 helpline. We have casework assistance, but we are a peer-based grief support organization. So a lot of what we do is based on that peer connection, and then we can make referrals for. Counseling, more professional level of care where we find those providers who are either in an an insurance network or offer pro bono services so we can get people connected to the care. If it’s outside of our mission. We work really closely with partners to get them referred. To that, if they’re a service member and they’re looking for other resources, you can always come to taps because we’re very connected with all of those other like VSOs and organizations.

So even if it’s not something we provide, we work really closely with them. So when in doubt, you can always kind of check with us and ask, but there’s some incredible partners out there. I would say a really [00:52:00] good one. Through the Face, the Fight Coalition, the coalition has, I think well over 250. Other organizations that are all de dedicated to suicide, you know, prevention, intervention, and postvention.

So face the fight’s a great website where they can get more information, they can find care, they can find more training, really specific to the veteran population. And many of those other resources are, are part of that coalition. And then, you know, as far as. Some of the other services at taps, you know, we have, I mentioned the peer based support that we offer, but we also have events throughout the year.

We have a national suicide survivor seminar every year. That’ll be coming up this fall in addition to many of our other events that people can attend in person and. of gatherings in their local communities. So, you know, some of these resources might be more on the national level level, but it’s really important to get connected in your local community.

So there could be a nonprofit right in your immediate community that might be a [00:53:00] place to connect for care. And if you’re in maybe a rural community or part of maybe a subpopulation that you’re needing more

specific needs, sometimes just through kind of word of mouth, we can

get you connected to some other services.

[00:53:12] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:53:13] Carla Stumpf Patton: That can be really helpful. And of

course a lot of that can be found, you know, on our website and we have our

helpline number are, are you gonna put that

[00:53:20] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, I’ll, I’ll have all the, the, your website and the the, the phone numbers and all the, the stuff in the, the show notes and, and everything for, for the listeners. So, so definitely check that out because,

The, I’m, I’m sure there’s even more information on the website that, that covers all the, the programs and services and all the things that you guys do that

[00:53:35] Carla Stumpf Patton: right.

[00:53:36] Scott DeLuzio: we just didn’t have time to talk about all the things today.

I, I, I know there are. Great resources for survivors of, of any sort you know, of, of military losses, whether it’s suicide or, or combat related or any, any other sort of loss like that. You know, so there’s, there’s a lot of resources available that you guys offer, and it’s, it’s really incredible that you guys are offering all this stuff and you [00:54:00] know, for, for the listeners out there who are, are struggling one way or another, or know someone who is, reach out. And like you said, it, it’s, it’s a great thing that you guys do, that you partner with other organizations to you know, maybe you’re not the experts in one particular area, but you know, someone who is, and you can refer people out as opposed to you know, just. Oh, nope. We can’t help you.

And you know, there’s a door and that’s not the way to, to do it. And you guys, you guys do it the right way by you know, making those referrals when, when you know you’re not the right group of people for a particular situation, but you know who is make that referral and say, Hey, we can’t help you, but.

But these people can and, and they’re gonna really take care of you and, and they’ll, they’ll do the right things for you. So, so I think that’s, that’s really incredible. And you know, hopefully this, this episode lands in the right ears and, and the folks who are, and, and the folks who are listening to this will reach out and get the support and the help and, and the connection I think most importantly, that, that they, that they need.

So, so Carla, thank you so much for [00:55:00] coming on the show. You know, before we we wrap up though any last, last minute things that you, you might want to add? Or, or, or do we kind of touch on all the, the highlights?

[00:55:09] Carla Stumpf Patton: You know, you, you just talked about connection

[00:55:11] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:55:12] Carla Stumpf Patton: other really valuable thing that we do at taps, if, you know, you are somebody within the, in the community, whether you’re active duty or already separated out from the military, we have our military mentor program and, and those are folks that kind of volunteer their time.

They might come out to an event, a seminar, a camp out and we, you know, give training for that where they will mentor one of our bereaved military children. And it’s an incredible place for just. Purpose and connection to stay connected to the military community, but to give back in a way that really is beyond words to ex to express that.

But you know, you can learn more about that on our, on our website through our military mentor program as a way to volunteer and you know, maybe find an event that might be near you that you might be

able to come out and help out. We’d love to meet you and then,

and just embrace you into [00:56:00] our taps family.

[00:56:00] Scott DeLuzio: That’s wonderful. And again, thank you so much Carla for coming on the show,

Sharing, you know, your personal story, sharing your professional experience, and all the things that, that taps is doing, all the great work that you guys are doing. So, thank you again for coming on.

[00:56:14] Carla Stumpf Patton: Thanks so much for having me and

Have a great day. Goodbye to all your guests.

[00:56:18] Scott DeLuzio: All right. Thanks so much.​