Episode 566 Pamela Pyle A Good Death Starts Today Transcript

This transcript is from episode 566 with guest Pamela Pyle.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Walking into a hospital can feel like walking into some sort of machine that’s already decided that you’re a problem to manage, not a person to care for. When you walk in, first you gotta hand over your personal information, then you hand over some valuables, then you’re close, and then you sit and wait and the waiting starts to mess.

Mess with your head because it’s seems to be telling you that you don’t have any control over the situation. If you ever left an appointment. Feeling small, shut down, brushed off. There is a way to take your power back without turning into a pain in the ass. Dr. Pamela Pile. Our guest today has spent her life inside hospitals, including the va, and she breaks down how to ask better questions, how to push for what you’re owed and how to protect your rights.

When the first answer is no, then. Our conversation is going to shift in something even bigger than medicine, into a way that you can live your life that makes [00:01:00] the end of life less scary in. In the middle of life more meaningful, especially when hope is running thin, which for a lot of veterans, unfortunately, that’s the the situation they’re finding themselves in.

Before we get into this episode, though, I want to take a moment to raise awareness for something that’s deeply important to our community. The Global War On Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism.

This memorial serves as both a tribute to those who have served and a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

[00:02:00]

[00:02:03] Scott DeLuzio: Hey, Pamela, welcome to the podcast. I’m, I’m really glad to have you here. Looking forward to this conversation.

[00:02:11] Dr. Pamela Pyle: I am so thankful to be here. And I just love what you’re doing and

and honoring our veterans and, and active armed forces

the way that you are. It’s, it’s

[00:02:21] Scott DeLuzio: Oh yeah.

[00:02:22] Dr. Pamela Pyle: and I feel very privileged to be included.

[00:02:25] Scott DeLuzio: Well, I appreciate that. And,

You know, there’s.

So many people out there who have been struggling in one way or another, who either are currently serving or or have served and they just don’t know where to turn, and they have all sorts of questions and they don’t know who to ask or, or whatever the case may be.

Maybe they had a bad experience with, you know, one thing that they tried to do or whatever, and it. Seems like it’s, it’s kind of hopeless. And that’s kind of where this podcast was born from. It was basically just to give some hope and inspiration to folks who are out there struggling and, [00:03:00] and they don’t know where else to turn.

Sometimes they’re just isolated by themselves and, you know, if they find this podcast and they find some information that’s useful to them, then you know that. I chalk that up as a win, and, and we can we can help some folks out. But before we kinda move on and get into this conversation, I’d, I’d love for you to maybe just start by introducing yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself and your, your journey and your, your work in medicine and, and work with any, any kind of veterans that you might’ve worked with and, and all that kind of stuff.

Just for the listeners maybe who aren’t familiar with you.

[00:03:31] Dr. Pamela Pyle: So my name’s Dr. Pamela Pyle and I grew up in a very small town in Oklahoma. And really. Had no plans for even college out of high school. Went to work as a dental assistant. And I, you know, there are certain times when God intervenes in your life with people, and one of those was the dentist that I worked for who said, you know, you’re, [00:04:00] you’re too smart to be working right now as a dental assistant and young, and I was early married and. I, I didn’t believe in myself till he believed in me. And so I started going to night school while I was still working. And at the same time, my dad, who is also a veteran air Force, who had started in the Air Force at 18, and then as he finished with that part of his career, he became a mechanic then he decided to go to college. And medical school and, and thank goodness for the educational benefits through the armed forces, he was able to go to college and then medical school and we. I ended up being at medical school at the same time.

[00:04:54] Scott DeLuzio: Oh,

[00:04:55] Dr. Pamela Pyle: And

[00:04:55] Scott DeLuzio: that’s cool.

[00:04:56] Dr. Pamela Pyle: he, it was, it was very cool. He [00:05:00] returned to the Armed Forces, the Air Force after that was overseas for large part of my years.

And then I, you know, was accepted to the same school he was and. Loved it. It was in Texas. And then wanted to do my residency in, really a,

a community that represented all walks of life.

[00:05:30] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:05:31] Dr. Pamela Pyle: so I was fortunate to be chosen by Baylor school of Medicine and I loved about that now. this was probably way before you were born it was 1989 when it started,

[00:05:49] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, not, not, not before I was born, but I, I appreciate the,

[00:05:54] Dr. Pamela Pyle: well, in medical residency, you graduate in May from school, [00:06:00] July 4th is always known as like this crazy time. Almost a risk for patients because you now have new interns entering the, the system of education. And my first month of was an internal medicine ward at the veteran hospital in Houston. And the thing about. That experience. And I did several more rounds there, but you know, when you’re first there like you’re called a doctor, if there’s a lot of way to it that you, you didn’t realize until like you’re the one that the nurses call at night and, and we would of course stay in the hospital What I remember about the BA at that time is it had the longest

hallway in [00:07:00] any government building in the the us

[00:07:04] Scott DeLuzio: Oh wow.

[00:07:04] Dr. Pamela Pyle: and it was long. I mean, it just seemed like a mile from going from the medical side over to the surgical side. just, sometimes you’re running and un, unlike a lot of hospitals there were medical wards where, you know. Bed by bed, by bed. Not a lot of privacy. n nursing station. But you know, the thing about the veterans that I and, others that were there is that they love that comradery. You know, there was no sense of, oh, I’m not getting my private space, or, oh, I’m not getting this or that.

I always felt like they were so grateful for any kind of care that they received.

[00:07:55] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:07:56] Dr. Pamela Pyle: And it taught me a lot about [00:08:00] grittiness because I’ll tell you, they were so strong had so many stories as a intern, you know, I was the first around. I would love to sit on the side of the bed and just hear stories, I love to tell ’em. And in the midst of that, you know, we’d get to the medical part of it.

But I’ve always loved learning from individuals from different aspects and walks of life and, and I think that’s why I love being a doctor is you just, more you listen. And in fact it said that if you listen long enough, they’ll give you a diagnosis.

[00:08:43] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:08:44] Dr. Pamela Pyle: They were incredible. It also was a time when HIV and AIDS was just diagnosed and early treatments. One of my first patients that [00:09:00] died died. In the VA hospital from and it was devastating for a lot of different reasons, but mostly because I cared for him for so many days and I just admired his strength. And of the things that I’ve written about is there should never be shame attached to a disease. And, and he had a lot of shame. But he, he was still loved by, you know, everybody in the ward and he had a crazy kinda laugh that was infectious. And I just remember the day that he got worse suddenly, and, and I didn’t know God at all. I’d never been in church in my life at that point. But I remember walking out of the hospital and just [00:10:00] saying, God, if you’re real, you know, please save him.

And I came in the next morning and he was gone.

[00:10:11] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:10:12] Dr. Pamela Pyle: And so of

course, you know, that had a lot of odd to it, but that’s a whole nother story.

[00:10:20] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:10:21] Dr. Pamela Pyle: But the other fun thing about the veterans. That time everybody smoked. fact, even the oncologist smoked as they did their rounds with their, the little tray. and there was always such a great, like you could just walk out there and they weren’t in their bed, they were outside smoking in the smoking area, you know, and

and just hooting and hollering. Telling

stories and

[00:10:53] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:10:53] Dr. Pamela Pyle: you know, was an honor to serve them.

[00:10:57] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And you know, when you [00:11:00] were talking about the your, your. Residency and, you know, wanting to work with kind of a diverse group of people. My, my first thought was, well, what better group of people than a group of veterans or, or service members or whatever, because they come from all walks of life.

They come from all over the country, sometimes. Other parts of the world. I, I know you know, there’s some people who aren’t even Americans and they want to fight in the American military. I, I had one guy, he was he was from Jamaica in my basic training. And, and so it’s like people come from all over the place and you’ll get a, a wide, wide variety of, of folks who, who wanna serve.

And so it’s, it’s real. Real interesting. And then, then when you get those people together, like you said, in kind of like an open bay type area, it yeah, it’s, it’s probably not a privacy thing that, that people are worried about because you start building that comradery with the guy in the, the bed next to you and, and you know, cross the room or whatever, and, and you kind, you kinda start [00:12:00] to bond together, you know?

Yeah. You’re, you guys are all going through the same kind of, you know, different. Diagnosis is probably different diseases or different, whatever conditions that they’re, they’re going through, but you’re, you’re all going through this crappy time all at the same time. and

[00:12:16] Dr. Pamela Pyle: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:17] Scott DeLuzio: so there’s, there’s that shared suffering aspect of it that, that a lot of times brings, brings folks together.

And I, I know from my own experience some of those moments while in the moment.

It, It, sucks and it seems like it’s terrible and miserable and everything like that. But after the fact when you look back and it’s like, wow, that was one of the greatest bonding experiences I think I’ve ever had with, you know, a group of guys and brought us so much closer because we were able to have that type of experience.

And and so, you know, it’s, it’s just, you know, interesting to, to see the different dynamics in, in a. Military or veteran space. And, and so for someone who maybe didn’t have a ton of experience, I know, I know you said your father, you know, served, [00:13:00] but maybe didn’t have a ton of experience with the overall military community and all, all the, the folks who make it up you know, probably.

You’re, I would imagine you’re probably pretty glad that you were able to get such a diverse group of people to work with and probably diverse, you know, conditions that they were dealing with and, and everything. But it certainly you know, a very diverse group, I’m sure. Right.

[00:13:22] Dr. Pamela Pyle: Totally very diverse, as you said. My great-grandfather and his brother they were native American, Western Cherokee and their. had died and they were adopted by a

wealthy woman who mistreated them.

[00:13:42] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:13:43] Dr. Pamela Pyle: So they both signed up for the first World War And my great uncle, he was a prisoner of war and actually a really. A documented [00:14:00] death. And of course my great-grandfather made it home, but it was, it’s always been a part of our And Western Cherokees, if you have a drop of Cherokee blood, you’re considered fully Cherokee. And so I’m part of the Western tribe and my grandchildren and children, and very honored by that. But because of that, I, I went back and started looking at the history of both African Americans Caribbean Americans, and those that were native. so many of those fought from 1776 to later wars always with the promise of freedom or land.

And, And, never actually fulfilled promises.

[00:14:56] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:14:57] Dr. Pamela Pyle: I’m very like sensitive to that [00:15:00] subject of like the variety of people and recognizing that everyone that fights lays down their life for us.

And, and I, I have a saying that we may not be able to serve our country as veterans have. But the way we serve our veterans is the way we

serve our country. And, and that’s every single one of us,

[00:15:27] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

[00:15:28] Dr. Pamela Pyle: can play a role in making their lives better. And our active military, our first responders,

And so that’s part of mission and

[00:15:41] Scott DeLuzio: well.

[00:15:41] Dr. Pamela Pyle: of it.

[00:15:42] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. No, and that’s a, a great way to look at it too. I mean, you know, not everyone serves and that’s, that’s fine. There’s other ways to serve your, your country to serve the, the folks who served and, and things like that. So there’s, there’s plenty of ways to do it. It’s just, you know, what, what’s right for that [00:16:00] individual.

And so, so that’s, you know, a great way to, to look at it. I wanna kind of move forward a little bit here and I wanna talk a little bit about your book. And you know, while it’s not specific to veterans, it does offer guidance for navigating healthcare and, and things along those lines. Tell us a little bit about the book and and kind of how you see it kind of fitting in, in, in this space as far as the veterans and their families and, and folks like that.

[00:16:25] Dr. Pamela Pyle: Well, truly, whether you’re a veteran or a civilian the healthcare system, especially for veterans, it’s difficult, you know, it’s difficult to navigate. Almost everyone. The the first answer is no, because they’re told to say no first. And then there’s a, a real what’s called stripping process where the moment you enter the healthcare system, we’ll say hospital, you know, you’re handing over. Your [00:17:00] information, all your private information, then you’re handing over your valuables then ultimately you hand over your clothes to, sit and wait. And the waiting process is actually, I part of a control aspect of over under,

and it makes those that are waiting feel less than.

[00:17:25] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:17:26] Dr. Pamela Pyle: So as a, a physician who’s worked in hospitals all of my career, as well as also working in Rwanda and villages, I just felt like there’s such a big miss if we don’t educate patients and not that physicians or nurses in the moment. Wouldn’t like to educate more. They

are just, they’re [00:18:00] not afforded enough time.

[00:18:01] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:18:02] Dr. Pamela Pyle: fact, becoming more and more of an issue whether you’re a veteran entering the hospital system or a civilian entering a private hospital. And so. Time is, is money,

[00:18:20] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:18:21] Dr. Pamela Pyle: is essentially. But I will say my father, who’s just gone through prostate cancer and been seen at the VA hospital in Shreveport, Louisiana, he loved his medical experience. One, he, he. He had stopped being a doctor after about five years that he went back to being a farmer. But or went to being a farmer that he loved hanging out again with his fellow soldiers and hearing stories. they’re older, living with the same disease. [00:19:00] But best thing, and what my book does is. Knowledge is power. And so understanding how your system works you a sense, one of confidence two gives you a feeling of some power that’s been taken away by the stripping effect. And, and so what I do is teach the principles of gaining power. these are the questions to ask. is regardless of system, is how to get a second opinion. These are your rights, patient veteran or active military, this is how to make sure that you are getting the best care possible. And there is something true about the squeaky well gets the grease because sometimes. [00:20:00] as a veteran, when you’re kind of, you might a service man and you’re used to following orders. You, you’re not there still and, and you have rights that you, you need to protect them and, and so the book. Gives a lot of that kind of information from your very first diagnosis all the way to your last and then for family

members, how, how to care best when someone faces an illness.

[00:20:39] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And when veterans or or anyone really when, when someone is. Facing a maybe a serious diagnosis and, you know, potentially life-threatening diagnosis. Whe whether it’s cancer or heart disease or you name it, there, there’s all sorts of things out there that, that, that can get us. [00:21:00] Something’s gonna get us.

We all, we all have a, we all have an expiration date. So, you know, there’s something will get us at some point, but at some point that diagnosis becomes serious, potentially life threatening and, and things like that. And you have a concept of a, a good death as a, of as a lifestyle. And I, I thought that was kind of an interesting way to phrase things because it’s kinda like you’re putting two opposite things, a death and a lifestyle together.

And it’s like, but I, I kind wanted to dig into that a little bit and, and talk a little bit more about about this concept and, and kind of how that might, shift someone’s perspective, maybe even when they’re facing something serious like a, you know, a, a potentially life threatening illness or something.

[00:21:45] Dr. Pamela Pyle: So the phrase, A good death came from a patient of mine. Truly on the day before her death was confident her good death and I was gonna miss her. I just, you know, I was [00:22:00] so emotional. I thought of losing her even though she was at the end of her disease and she was ready and she comforted me with saying, it’s okay.

I will have a good death. And, you know, at this point I. I have now believed in God and, and believed in faith and my hope in that. And I felt like God used that phrase to just made me, make me look at my own mortality and what I thought about my own death. Even though at that point I was 30 years of around death and dying and trauma and

all the things you see in hospitals.

I hadn’t considered it for myself,

[00:22:45] Scott DeLuzio: Hm.

[00:22:46] Dr. Pamela Pyle: about a year about, well, what is a good death? And when I say a good death is not an event, it’s a lifestyle. It’s not an event [00:23:00] in that. It’s not like the moment you take your last breath or even the dying process, a good death is when you can look back at your life and know that. You’ve lived a meaningful life. So it’s really not even about dying. It’s about each of us, like examining our life Now, what adds meaning? What adds value? What’s my purpose? How can I build into the lives of others? And, you know, sometimes. I, I watch funny Pat

videos because, you know, I just you know, have fun along the way.

[00:23:46] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:23:47] Dr. Pamela Pyle: so the number one regret people have at the end of life is that they didn’t live the life they were meant to. And so that’s what I encourage them is don’t get the very [00:24:00] end and go, I wish I would have, you’ll

have a good death. Basically on how you had a good life.

[00:24:09] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:24:09] Dr. Pamela Pyle: And begins for all of us today. And that began with me after I heard that and contemplated it. And yes, there’s a dying journey and there’s so many things that we can do now to make it less fearful. And

most of all, we can still have hope. And hopelessness kills.

[00:24:36] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:24:37] Dr. Pamela Pyle: As, as you know, you know, in the veteran population, when they lose hope, that’s when suicide happens.

And homelessness and, and all the terrible things that our veterans face is, they feel hopeless. And I just wanna speak hope to them my hope has come through my [00:25:00] faith. And also just my purpose and, and feeling like

I’m here for a reason.

[00:25:08] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:25:09] Dr. Pamela Pyle: go tell when it’s time, but for

[00:25:11] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:25:12] Dr. Pamela Pyle: I’m here for a reason.

[00:25:13] Scott DeLuzio: Right, exactly. And I, I think that’s just a great way to think about it too, because

there, you’re right, there are so many people who just lose hope. And I was talking about this kind of at the beginning of the episode where, you know, I was kind of talking about the, basically the purpose of this podcast in, in general not just this episode, but just, you know, all the episodes combined is, is really for those folks who maybe feel like they’re, they’re losing hope.

They’ve, they. Have maybe tried some things and it, it isn’t working out for ’em. They, they don’t see their life really turning around and, you know, like there are some stories of inspiration and hope and encouragement on, on this show. And, you know, this being one of them where it, it kind of just gives a different perspective on.

On, on death is, [00:26:00] is, that’s one end of it. You know? So thinking of, you know, where are you gonna be in X number of years? Whatev however much time we have left, none, none of us really know. But you know, where are you gonna be at that point? And when you look back, what are you looking back on and what, what are you gonna see that you’ve accomplished?

What was your purpose? Do, did you do all the things that you wanted to do in life? And were you fulfilled? Were, were all those things you know, happening. You can look at it right now and say, okay, what if today was that day that today’s your last day? And you look back and you say, well, no, I didn’t really do nearly anything that I wanted to accomplish.

I didn’t really feel like I had much of a purpose. Well, then now’s the time to change that and now’s the time to start figuring out what your purpose is, what is going to give you that sense of fulfillment and when. You’re living a life that’s fulfilled and, and you feel like you have a sense of purpose, then that kind [00:27:00] of moves you away from that, that depression, that suicidal thinking and all of those negative things, you kind of just shift away from those to a point where to, to a point where you are happy and you’re,

[00:27:17] Dr. Pamela Pyle: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:18] Scott DeLuzio: and I’m not saying you’re gonna be happy every single day.

[00:27:21] Dr. Pamela Pyle: beyond yourself

[00:27:22] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Right.

[00:27:23] Dr. Pamela Pyle: beyond how you’re feeling emotionally inside,

[00:27:27] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:27:28] Dr. Pamela Pyle: all of a sudden it may be an hour, may be a day

that you go. I didn’t really like feel that internal

[00:27:38] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:40] Dr. Pamela Pyle: because I was focusing outward, but it’s a big, you know, purpose.

[00:27:47] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:27:48] Dr. Pamela Pyle: What, what does that mean for me in, in my world? You know, and I think for those that are have been in the [00:28:00] military, you know, that they’re so strengthened by understanding their purpose and serving is

a

righteous purpose.

[00:28:13] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:28:15] Dr. Pamela Pyle: But serving can be a righteous purpose, even if it’s like going to your local veterans’ hospital okay, I’m a mess, I wanna help you check in other vets as they’re getting admitted to the hospital. And it starts with the little things. But I also know that. This administration is bringing some amazing mental health solutions to particularly our military. We have to, you know, hold out for that. That’s what I’m saying.

Hold out for that. [00:29:00] ’cause there are so many things that can help

you.

[00:29:03] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:29:04] Dr. Pamela Pyle: have to think of the big picture right now.

Just make it till tomorrow.

[00:29:08] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And there are,

like you said, there are so many things out there, and I, I’ve said this before to, to folks on this show, but you know, if you are sitting there and you’re saying to yourself, yeah, you know, I’ve, I’ve tried a bunch of different things. I, I feel like I’ve tried everything and it’s none, nothing seems to be working.

I gotta imagine. You haven’t tried everything. There are so many things out there. There are all different types of mental health treatments. There are you know, e even, you know, I know a lot of people don’t like the medications, but some of those medications might be exactly what you need to get over, whatever that hump is that you, you might be dealing with.

Or it, it could be therapy or it could be some other type of thing. There are, there are just so many things out there, and if. You haven’t done all of the things, [00:30:00] you, you still have a reason to wake up tomorrow. ’cause tomorrow is the day that you can go try that other thing. And, and then the next day after that, and, and same thing, so on and so forth.

But, you know, the, the more you do, the closer you’re gonna get to whatever the solution is that that’s right for you. You know, not, not every single solution’s gonna be right for everybody. So yeah, you might have to try it out. Maybe you’ve gone, gone to therapy and you didn’t like the therapist that you had.

Okay, well there are thousands of other therapists that you can choose from and go to somebody else, and, and that that’s okay. That I don’t think any therapists are gonna, you know, take it personally. It’s, Hey, it wasn’t a good fit. You know, just, just like anything else. I mean, you, you go on a date with someone, it’s not a good fit.

You’re not gonna. Continue going on a date with that person. If, if it’s, you know what I mean? It, it just doesn’t make sense. So, you know, same idea with, with a, a therapist, if it’s, if it’s not a good fit, it’s not a good fit and, and move on, move on to, to somebody else. And, and that’s okay. You know, and, and I think you know, even things like you were [00:31:00] talking about, you, you kind of came to your, your faith and, and religion and, and things a along this journey that you were talking about that.

Probably, I’d imagine shifted your perspective on a lot of things in life in general and you know, not just your, your profession and, and dealing with six people and people who are, you know, in dealing with injuries and, and all these kind of things. But just life in general. And so for folks who haven’t experienced that themselves, that’s something else you can, you can give a shot, you know, like if you haven’t.

Had any sort of faith in, in your life, well maybe open, open your eyes to that and that might be the thing that you’re missing and that might be the thing that that drags you outta that dark hole that you might be in. Right?

[00:31:46] Dr. Pamela Pyle: I can say for me, you know, I, I’ve dealt with depression periodically through years, but and I was at the end of myself and [00:32:00] the thing. That I realized is had, I was seven years into my medical practice. I had a wonderful family. I had everything that the world would go. It’s like,

you should have it all together. And I didn’t. I, in fact, I was kind of a mess inside.

[00:32:20] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:21] Dr. Pamela Pyle: And I was alone by myself and my husband had come to faith two years before. And I, like I said, I had no, had no church experience. I thought he was crazy, but I finally, it was like, I’ve tried everything else. You know, Jesus, it would you just like, me a little peace.

And, and for me in that moment, it’s like, it’s yesterday,

it’s

[00:32:50] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:32:51] Dr. Pamela Pyle: March. It was the beginning of feeling different,

[00:32:53] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:54] Dr. Pamela Pyle: everyone. Finds different journeys, [00:33:00] but was the beginning of like experience. Experience, a new life journey that really led me to my purpose in Rwanda. And you know, it’s just shaped my life. And that does not mean that my life got perfect, perfect. Or I didn’t have other episodes of depression, I always had hope and I have hope. And I just would like to say for those you know, that are searching, particularly with PTSD, it, there are so many good treatments, you know, from EMDR, which is a certain kind of therapy deep nerve stimulation in the cervical spine, a single treatment, and there’s so much hope for you. And it can feel hopeless, when there are so many [00:34:00] beside you that also have the same thing. And that’s part of like my white flag app. We’ve talked about that, Scott. I think it’s helpful because you talk to other people with similar things, but perhaps further along the journey of getting better and,

that’s why I’m honored to be on the medical advisory board for that and

[00:34:25] Scott DeLuzio: Y Yeah, that was actually something that I, I wanted to bring up and, and mention. I, I kind of slipped my mind as we were kind of going through the, the conversation here. But would you be able to tell us a little bit more about White Flag App and for anyone who might be unfamiliar with it and

[00:34:40] Dr. Pamela Pyle: mm-hmm.

[00:34:41] Scott DeLuzio: you know, what that’s all about and, and what, what it entails.

[00:34:44] Dr. Pamela Pyle: Yeah. So, the founder was someone who, was arrested incorrectly and while he was spending the night in jail, his person in the jail cell committed suicide in front of him. [00:35:00] he he was traumatized and college and dealt with addictions and. He got help and then went back to school and law school and he has dedicated his life to helping those with mental health and providing access to mental health care. So one of the things that he’s done is developed white FLAG app and it’s on the app store. It’s absolutely free. And they’re essentially. If you’re in a crisis or if you just need to talk to someone and you have, say you’re a veteran and you’re depressed and, and considering suicide, you can raise your flag and enter those information and the people that are in [00:36:00] your lane are also veterans. And, and someone will respond with to your flag. And a lot of times it is hard for, for you guys, and I’m speaking not from knowledge, just observation and talking. to talk

to people. It’s hard sometimes even to talk to your spouse about all that you’re feeling,

[00:36:25] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:36:26] Dr. Pamela Pyle: but it’s better to talk to someone who’s gone through the same thing, mean. have an immediate connection because they understand things more than anyone else, whether it’s a doctor or a spouse, commanding officer like someone that’s just like you. So it’s a, a great opportunity to connect then also a great opportunity to find purpose [00:37:00] because as your help. may be the person that’s sitting there watching who, who right now is feeling like I was and how can I help them? it’s just a peer-to-peer app of connecting

in a safe environment with those that are like you.

[00:37:22] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and that, that’s great. Again, it’s another resource, which

maybe some folks who are listening right now, they didn’t know about this before, and. I would encourage them right now, if this is something that they sounds like it would be useful to you, like, stop listening right now, go to the app store, download it onto your, your phone or your tablet or whatever you know, device you’re using and, and use it and, and get the benefit of, of you know, that peer to peer support.

Again, like you said, from folks who. Know what you’ve been through, who’ve, who’ve been through [00:38:00] similar things themselves. Nobody’s been through the exact same thing that, that you’ve been through. You know that, that everyone has different. Experiences, different perspectives and and whatnot. So, but they, they know enough about what it is that you’ve, you’ve gone through that they can be able to speak intelligently to you and make you feel like, Hey, you know what, you’re, you’re not alone.

There, there are other people out there who have experienced something very similar and you know, while raising a white flag might, might feel like defeat. It’s, it’s actually, in this case it’s not. It’s, it’s. It’s basically saying, Hey, I need some help. I, I need, I need some, someone to just give me that, that

little bit of encouragement that some whatever it is that you need you’re, you’re, you’re raising that flag saying, I, I can’t do it myself, and I know I,

[00:38:52] Dr. Pamela Pyle: quitting. You’re

just, saying I need

someone to step in for a little bit

[00:38:57] Scott DeLuzio: yeah. Right.

[00:38:58] Dr. Pamela Pyle: give me an assist.[00:39:00]

[00:39:00] Scott DeLuzio: Exactly, and, and if you think about about any of the service members,

you know, basically nothing that you do in the military is on your own. You’re doing everything in a team of, you know, it could be as small as a couple people, it could be, you know, up to, you know, a. Platoon company, you know, battalion size, whatever the size elements that you’re, you’re talking about, you’re, you’re working together with other people to accomplish a mission.

And if you’re sitting there thinking to yourself, well, I was in the military, I should be able to do anything. Well, you weren’t expected to do it all on your own back then. Now why should you be expected to do it all on your own right now? You know, reach out.

[00:39:40] Dr. Pamela Pyle: that’s a brilliant point, Scott.

You know, I mean, we all needed to hear that.

[00:39:45] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:39:45] Dr. Pamela Pyle: is so true.

[00:39:47] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

you, you, might, the military might make you feel like you’re, you know, almost invincible or you’re, you’re this big tough, you know, tough guy or whatever, and you can handle anything. But to be [00:40:00] honest, you. Most of us can’t handle everything. That, that gets thrown our way sometimes.

It’s, it’s too much and, and we need to reach out for help. I know I did and, and I, I continue to get help and it’s, it’s just part of the, the, the things that I go through and, and there’s no shame in it. I don’t think anyone is is out there thinking, oh my gosh, what, what a lunatic he’s going to get help.

Like, like that. That would be ridiculous. So like, you know.

[00:40:25] Dr. Pamela Pyle: It’s a sign of courage.

[00:40:26] Scott DeLuzio: Exactly.

[00:40:27] Dr. Pamela Pyle: A big, tough guy. If you made it through base camp, you’re a

big, tough guy

[00:40:33] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you can handle the, the things that, that the, the military is thrown at you, you’re, you’re, you’re still tough in my book too. Yeah, I get it. You know, so I, I think, you know, looking ahead you know, for, for the listeners here, I think just kind of some key takeaways here.

One, check out that white flag app that, that’s just a huge benefit, even if you don’t need it right now. Download it. ’cause you never know, you might need it down, down the road, maybe even someone [00:41:00] who who you know, might be struggling. And, and it might be just that little bit of a reminder to say, Hey, why don’t, why don’t you download this app too?

And you know, that might be a, you know, just a good, good thing to have. So, you know, I’m sure it’s not taking up too much space on the phone. Just, just download it and you have it in your pocket. And then, you know, finding that sense of purpose or, or community or tho those interactions with, with other people and, and having that that ability to look back at your life later on when you’re approaching a.

Your, your death. And, and I, I’ve heard other people describe this as you know, the dash in between your, your birthdate and the, your, your date of death is, you know, on, on your tombstone, there’s that dash in between. That’s the, the, that’s where you are right now. You’re somewhere on that line, that little dash in between those two dates.

And make it as good as you can. Why not, you only have one life to, to live and make it as. Good of a life as, as you possibly can and, and enjoy [00:42:00] things and find purpose and, and you know, when you do help other people, like, you know, someone like yourself as a, as a doctor and you know, there’s plenty of other professions out there who are, who are helping people, but that fulfills you, fulfills your, your.

Your sense of purpose and wellbeing and all, all those kind of things. And it’s just a, you know, a great way to you know, go through life. So, you know, for, for those listeners, I think those are kind of some of the key takeaways from this episode. You know, anything else before we wrap up here that, that you might wanna add to, to the conversation?

[00:42:31] Dr. Pamela Pyle: real quickly,

[00:42:32] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:32] Dr. Pamela Pyle: first I wanna say as someone that’s been in the military, you’re already like, done an amazing thing on your dash. Don’t discount that. Don’t regret that. We always, you know, our family and, and those we serve with in different ways wanna recognize our veterans. And so in your home state, Scott, Arizona, [00:43:00] we had the first, day of Gratitude in 2024 where we had Raiders stadium and 15,000 military there that received everything from, you know, claim service to $2 million of free goods, healthcare services, concert all day. Listening to leadership. the next one is June 6th, 2026 also the La Raider Stadium hosted by Citier, which I serve with as well.

And the goal is 20,000. I’d love to see as many as possible, even if we have to go above that and you’ll. It’s an amazing day and you deserve all the gratitude that you’ll

receive then.

[00:43:56] Scott DeLuzio: That’s awesome. And you know, yeah, I’ll, I’ll try to grab a link to [00:44:00] that and put that in the show notes as well for, for folks so that they can check that out and, and maybe put it on their calendar. I know this, this episode’s coming out a couple months before that, but. Still, no, no, no time, like the present to put something on the calendar and, and plan for, for the future.

So you have that date blocked off anyways you know if you’re gonna be in that area. And and so, Pamela, thank you so much again for coming on, sharing your, your story and sharing a little bit

[00:44:23] Dr. Pamela Pyle: so

[00:44:23] Scott DeLuzio: hope.

[00:44:24] Dr. Pamela Pyle: and thank you for what you do. And I’m, I’m, I didn’t know what Drive on meant, and, and now I do, and I, I love the name and I understand the, the

secret meaning of it. A you know, and you’re just incredible what you do.

[00:44:39] Scott DeLuzio: I appreciate that so much. Thanks again.​