Episode 567 Alan Brown A Veteran Uses Poetry To Process Transcript

This transcript is from episode 567 with guest Alan Brown.

[00:00:00] ​

[00:00:05] Scott DeLuzio: The Army gives you a schedule, a uniform daily pt, and a group of people who you can rely on pretty much every single day. But then retirement takes all of that away from you at once. Our guest today, Alan Brown, retired in January of 2020, after 23 years in the Army, and the next year’s turned into a scramble to find work that felt like it was worth the effort to him.

[00:00:29] In the episode, he describes the exact pieces that disappeared after the service. And he also explains what helped him put words to the, the pressure in his head without turning it into a therapy session or social media posts. He spent the, the summer of 2025 editing and rebuilding poems from earlier in his life.

[00:00:52] Then published a collection in September of 2025 called When the Uniform No Longer Fits, [00:01:00] reflections on Military Service, family, and Being a Veteran. Many of the poems come straight from his own memories on active duty, plus the daily reality of raising two kids while adjusting to civilian life. And it just encompasses a lot of real life experiences that he has had, and hopefully, uh, some of you guys can relate to some of the stuff that he’s been through as well.

[00:01:24] Before we get into this episode though, I wanna take a moment to raise awareness for something that I feel is deeply important to our community, the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism.

[00:01:42] This memorial will serve as wealthy a tribute to those who served, and as a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT Memorial Foundation. Now, let’s.

[00:01:57] get into today’s [00:02:00] episode. Hey, Alan, welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here.

[00:02:16] Alan Brown: Hey, Scott. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

[00:02:18] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you bet. Before we, we kind of dive into the conversation, can you maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself and, and a little bit about your background just for the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with you?

[00:02:28] Alan Brown: Yeah, for sure. So I grew up in, in, just outside of Portland, Oregon, ended up doing ROTC as a way to put myself through school and that led to the army. By way of Germany and Korea and all places. Seems like in the, in the lower 48. Started out as a, as a personnel officer for the first eight years or so.

[00:02:48] And then somebody told me that I didn’t have what it takes to go be a professor, uh, at West Point. And so I said, all right, that’s fine. Uh, I’ll see about that and put my name [00:03:00] in, and ultimately probably got it on a matter of being a real. Pain in the ass to somebody up there, particularly since they didn’t go to school there.

[00:03:08] So I thought they probably needed somebody else to, to come and, and, uh, try to teach cadets a little bit. So I got, I got an opportunity to go teach English and literature at West Point for a number of years after getting my graduate degree in Colorado. Uh, that was a pretty illuminating assignment.

[00:03:24] Absolutely loved that. And then switched over to public affairs for the last portion of my career 23 years in the Army. So having, having three different distinct careers in while I was in was, was, was interesting and, and I think it kind of helped keep me going for, for 23 years. And, you know, so. Uh, retired in, in, um, gosh, I guess it’s going on six years now, January of 2020.

[00:03:49] And I’m still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up. Uh, the transition is, as you and probably most of your listeners know, the transition is. [00:04:00] Been up and down and frustrating and enjoyable and all the things in between. And, uh, yeah. So we settled here in, in Eagle River, Alaska, where we kinda are hoping it’s our forever home.

[00:04:14] We live in a really quaint small, relatively small town in, in a mountain valley, uh, called Eagle River. And, uh, it’s pretty, it’s nothing to see moose in my yard and, and, uh, keep my, keep my trash in the garage so the bears don’t empty it on a re regular basis. I was driving back from Anchorage today and I saw about 10 bald eagles fly over, you know, just in a, in a period of just about a minute and a half.

[00:04:42] Scott DeLuzio: That’s

[00:04:42] Alan Brown: pretty awesome.

[00:04:43] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:04:43] Alan Brown: Yeah. So, I mean, something, you almost take that for granted, but mm-hmm. You know. Having grown up in the lower 48, you can’t do that. It’s so, it’s something pretty special up here where you really enjoy it, enjoy

[00:04:53] Scott DeLuzio: it. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. And definitely being in touch with, with all that nature around you, even, even some of the more [00:05:00] dangerous nature, like the bears and, and things like that.

[00:05:02] You, you don’t, you’re right. You don’t wanna leave trashes hanging out or, or anything in the, in the yard or, yep. You know, outside on the, the driveway or whatever, but,

[00:05:09] Alan Brown: yep.

[00:05:09] Scott DeLuzio: Um, you know. You were talking about the different stages of your, your career and I have to imagine that kept things interesting for you.

[00:05:18] ’cause if you’re doing the same thing for 20 plus years I can imagine it might start getting a little monotonous and you might, might wanna, you know, you, some people sure probably love their, their job and they, they love what they did and they’re, they’re happy to do it straight all the way through.

[00:05:33] But, you know, some people. It’s nice to have a, a change of pace every, every now and again. But but then getting out, especially when you got out in January of 2020, that was probably, probably a pretty difficult time to transition into the world when the whole world was just on the brink of falling apart in, you know, with all the COVID Lockdowns mm-hmm.

[00:05:55] And all the things that were going on. You know, everything seemed like it was, you know, [00:06:00] turned upside down on its head. And you know, it. It’s difficult enough for some folks figuring out what they want to do afterwards and then. All these doors get shut and it makes it that much harder. So so yeah, I, I, I know a lot of listeners are in that same boat, but in your situation, you know, anyone getting ar out around that time had to be tremendously difficult, you know, even more so than, than, uh, you know, getting out any other time, I would imagine.

[00:06:27] Alan Brown: Yeah. I, gosh, it seems like ages ago and yet just yesterday. Yeah. I was, I was. Super fortunate in that I was able to secure a, a decent job with the local school district pretty much before I even left my last assignment in New York. But I was there doing that when COVID hit and. Yeah, I think you hit it on the head.

[00:06:49] It, it flipped. It flipped the world upside down and it just, I mean, I, I didn’t even know where to begin. It just seemed like everybody’s priorities just kind of [00:07:00] changed.

[00:07:00] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:01] Alan Brown: And perceptions just completely went ask skew from what you would normally expect. You know, Alaska is probably one of the more.

[00:07:13] Military savvy states that I’ve ever been in to be, to be honest, they have one of the highest, if not the, like, maybe second or third highest per capita number of, of military and veterans of any state. Um,

[00:07:27] Scott DeLuzio: yeah,

[00:07:28] Alan Brown: it’s a small state, but it’s a huge state. So, I mean, you don’t, you don’t, I, we don’t even have a million here, but you can’t, you can’t throw a rock.

[00:07:36] And not hit three or four veterans or active duty military around here. And, and the, the degree of separation is about one. Everybody knows somebody who was in the military is retired or is currently in the military.

[00:07:49] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:07:50] Alan Brown: So that, in a way that, that I think helped if I, if I was down in another state maybe with, with, with fewer veterans or not as many, uh, [00:08:00] military installations or whatever, I think it would’ve been been harder.

[00:08:03] Um, yeah.

[00:08:05] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so I mean, so, so you get out, you’re, you’re in this kind of crazy world. And you know, obviously having a lot of veterans, military folks around is beneficial because there’s folks who speak the, speak your language. They know what you’re going through. They, they probably are Yeah. A good community to be around.

[00:08:26] But you said you, you ended up working for the local local school in your area. What, what, uh, I mean I know you, you were teaching, you know, at, at West Point and stuff. Uh, what kind of drew you to kind of stick with education as, as far as that? Or, or was that something on your radar or was that just where you landed?

[00:08:43] Alan Brown: It’s where I landed. Yeah. And I wasn’t even teaching, uh, at the school district. Okay. I was the, I was the. Public relations communications director of, and so I took my public affairs skillset from the Army and just kind of transferred that over. And, you [00:09:00] know, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a good job and it’s a, it’s a, it’s a pretty solid skillset.

[00:09:06] But what I, what I quickly learned was, is that it didn’t really fuel me as a person. It wasn’t as self-actualizing as I was hoping it would be. You know. You can have a great job that pays well and gives you good benefits, but you don’t necessarily go home every day and go dog gun it. I really, you know, did something really positive today, and it wasn’t that I, I wasn’t doing something probably worthwhile, but I didn’t feel like I did when I was in the army.

[00:09:37] Whatever it was, whichever job I was doing. And, and not that, not that the military’s always perfect, you know, you have, you have more than your share of, of crappy military days where you come home like, why did I sign up? Why am I doing this? But, you know, to, to stick with something for 23 years or even 10 years, there’s gotta be [00:10:00] some, some fundamental deep down.

[00:10:03] Drive that keeps you going. Otherwise you wouldn’t do it right. Otherwise, we wouldn’t raise our hand. There’s something burning inside that sort of keeps us going and. It’s almost cliche, and I, and, and your listeners and so many people have, have said, yes, I get it. You know, you get out, you don’t have a uniform, you’re not going to work.

[00:10:26] At the same time, you’re not doing PT with your soldiers. You don’t necessarily have that same camaraderie with the folks around you, and all of a sudden it’s like, well, what’s my purpose? What am I doing this for? Why did I choose this job over this job? And is this, you know, you get into this routine or rut that, that you may or may not fuel you and make you feel like you are accomplishing something or give you purpose.

[00:10:51] And so, you know, it’s been six years and I’m still trying to kind of figure that out, what the purpose is. [00:11:00] And you know, it’s not that I want to sign up and go back in the military. You know, I think my time has passed for that. But yeah, it, it finding, finding that that calling or that that job or, or thing that gives you, you know, really motivates you to get up every morning and, and give 110% has been really, really tough.

[00:11:24] I’ve had probably, it was like my fourth job since I’ve got out. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s up and down and sometimes I wonder, well, what’s wrong with me? You know, I can’t, can’t get my shit together to, to either be satisfied in a place or feel like I belong.

[00:11:42] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:11:43] Alan Brown: And, you know, as a, as a leader in the army, we’re not, we don’t get the pro, we don’t get the luxury of, of complaining or feeling bad for ourself.

[00:11:53] ’cause our job is to keep everybody up and, and keep everybody going and. [00:12:00] And nobody really, you know, you’re not supposed to, you’re not supposed to feel bad for yourself or have any issues because

[00:12:06] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:12:06] Alan Brown: You’re too busy squaring away your soldiers or your junior, you know, the junior leaders that are underneath you, you know?

[00:12:12] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And I, I think one of the things that the military in general, regardless of the branch it that it has, going for it for a lot of folks who get into the military, especially right outta high school, there. They maybe had no other job other than the military is you basically are told everything that you need to do, where you need to be, what time you need to be there, what clothes you need to be wearing, when you can eat, when you can sleep, when you can do all the things that you need to do.

[00:12:43] And it’s just laid out for you and it it’s given to you. I’m not saying that it’s easy work by any means because it’s being a soldier myself. Like it, it was, it was hard work. But. You didn’t have to really come up with that schedule [00:13:00] yourself or, or figure out what’s the next step? For me, it, it kind of was laid out.

[00:13:03] I mean, going from, you know, even moving up in ranks, there’s certain schools that you need to go to if you wanna move up in, in rank, and okay, well go to those schools, check the box, do it, and mm-hmm. Now, now you, you, uh, you know, start moving up in, in rank and, and all those kind of things. And it, it’s.

[00:13:21] Pretty well-defined the path that you need to take to get from, you know, even a, a private up to a certain rank that you might want to get to, or if you’re an officer getting, get going from, you know, lieutenant up, up the ranks. You know, it, it’s pretty well laid out once when you get out though. There are a million different paths that you could take and who knows what is the right path.

[00:13:45] Alan Brown: Yeah.

[00:13:46] Scott DeLuzio: Who’s even to say that there is the right path? Yeah. I mean there, there are so many different ones, and so you go from a very well-defined path that you can navigate in the military to. [00:14:00] A whole bunch of unknowns and, you know, am I doing the right thing? Is is do I need a job that pays more or do I need a job that fulfills my soul more?

[00:14:09] Or you know, what is it that I, that’s really important to me? You know, ’cause yeah, you might have that job that pays really well and you don’t have to worry about bills and your mortgage and your, you know, all these other things. But you come home and it feels like the life has been sucked out of you.

[00:14:23] Alan Brown: Yeah.

[00:14:23] Scott DeLuzio: On the, on the other hand, you might have a job that is. It’s very fulfilling to your soul, but at the end of the month, you’re like, I, I don’t know if we have enough money to keep the lights on, you know, for, for the, the last week of the month or something, you know? Right. It, it’s, so then, then you’re in, you know, kind of.

[00:14:42] Caught between there, like you need to, I think anybody needs to find something that kind of marries the two of those, something that, that fills the, the soul and also pays well. It’s not always gonna be possible. And in some cases, the thing that fills your soul might be more of a hobby, and it might be something that you do on the side, on, you [00:15:00] know, at night or on the weekends or, or things along those lines.

[00:15:03] That might be the thing. And, and the job, someone else I had on this podcast years ago like I honestly, I forget who it was who said this, but, um, it, the phrase stuck with me that, that they said is that your job sometimes is just the thing that you do. To be able to fund whatever that hobby is or whatever that thing that fills your soul or, or whatever.

[00:15:25] And it may not be the best job in the world. It may not be the thing that actually fills your soul, but if it pays well, it might be the thing that allows you to do the things that you actually enjoy. Um, instead of worrying about scraping away for every last penny to, to be able to. Turn the lights on or eat or, or whatever.

[00:15:43] Like you, you have the money so that you can live a, a comfortable enough life that you can mm-hmm. You can do those kind of things. So, you know, not to say that that’s the way that you need to go, or anybody else needs to go, it’s just there’s, there’s a lot of ways that you can kind of navigate through this, this thing and, and a lot of it’s trial and [00:16:00] error.

[00:16:00] And, and you’re gonna try something, try it for, you know, a year or two and be like, you know what, this sucks. I don’t wanna do this. You know? So.

[00:16:06] Alan Brown: Yeah.

[00:16:06] Scott DeLuzio: Um, it, it’s hard for, for a lot of folks.

[00:16:09] Alan Brown: So many of us, us, I mean, you know, veterans and folks in the military we’re, we’re programmed in a way that’s. You know, we’re, we’re, we’re programmed to, to go 110 miles an hour all the time.

[00:16:23] It’s either 110 or nothing. At least that, that’s my personality and I know plenty of other guys that are the same way. It’s like, you’re gonna, you’re gonna give 110% something, you’re gonna go at it hard. Your work is gonna be your life. And that, that, that’s the most healthy thing in the world. But it. The military brings that outta you.

[00:16:42] You, you’ve got to bring that kind of commitment in order to, to be successful, in order to feel like you’re accomplishing something. And that’s not, and that’s not uncommon. And I was like that, where it’s just my job is. A large portion of my life and I needed to feel [00:17:00] like I was accomplishing something. I needed to feel like it was worthwhile.

[00:17:03] And

[00:17:03] Scott DeLuzio: yeah,

[00:17:04] Alan Brown: you know, largely felt that. And, uh, you know, balancing that, that, you know, what fuels you and what pays the bills. I, yeah. Where’s that sweet spot? Right? I think you hit it on the head, right. Where is that sweet spot? Or can I. Can I do that? JOB that pays the bills and gets the rent done comfortably, and then find that other source of purpose somewhere else.

[00:17:30] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:31] Alan Brown: And just not, let, not let the fact that my JOB doesn’t necessarily give me that satisfaction, but that’s a shift, right? If you’re coming from 20 years in the military where you’re, you know, hard charging every day and you, you know what you, you know what your purpose is, you know what you’re doing every day to a job that.

[00:17:49] You probably don’t have to give a hundred percent to, you may not be as committed to it. It may not fuel you. That’s a huge, at least for me, has been a huge transition of [00:18:00] like, why am I doing this?

[00:18:01] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:18:02] Alan Brown: You know it’s not giving me what I need, even though the money’s there.

[00:18:07] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:18:08] Alan Brown: But something else is missing.

[00:18:09] Scott DeLuzio: And, and the thing is, your a hundred percent, and a lot of other veterans, their a hundred percent is nothing like their coworkers on the civilian side. What their a hundred percent would be because they’re not used to that hard charging attitude. The, the way the military kind of instills in you where, where you’re, you’re just used to it and you’ve.

[00:18:30] Elevated your whatever your, your baseline is for, for that a hundred percent. It’s, it’s higher than your average person’s. And so you’re out there hustling away, and you might, and this may or may not be your case, but other people might be hustling, and then they see their coworkers and it looks like they’re just slacking off when in reality they’re going there a hundred percent, but they’re, and it, it gets frustrating because it’s like, my God, what.

[00:18:59] Pull your head [00:19:00] outta your ass and, and actually do some work here, you know?

[00:19:02] Alan Brown: Yeah.

[00:19:03] Scott DeLuzio: But so you also got into, just kinda shifting gears just a little bit here, you also got into uh, poetry as well. Is that that correct? Am I understanding that correct?

[00:19:12] Alan Brown: Yeah, I, so I’ve always kind of been a bit of an English geek.

[00:19:15] Okay. Um, growing up writing was kind of the, the thing in school that was relatively easy to me that I enjoyed doing. I, it’s funny, I, I. I don’t have a, a gr a very deep, I don’t remember being like super interested in poetry growing up. I didn’t really start writing until I was in college, and that was just, just to like, throw stuff on the page and just maybe something fleeting, something really economical and short to just get an idea down and to play around with, with different forms and stuff.

[00:19:49] Probably connected to, to, you know, taking some literature classes in college. If I recall, it started, so I dabbled in it a little bit, started in the Army, and then let that [00:20:00] kind of go for a while, and then I really didn’t, I really didn’t start getting back to it until I started teaching poetry and literature to college freshmen at West Point.

[00:20:11] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:12] Alan Brown: And trying to motivate them to care about. A poem by William Carlos Williams or, or Emily Dickinson or any, any of those, you know, what we want to consider as a classic American poet or even a British poet or whatever. And you know, how do you make that interesting to a bunch of guys that go to West Point, that all half of ’em, or 80% of them are majoring in engineering or science and they’re like, oh, this English class sucks.

[00:20:43] I don’t know what this is gonna do for me. You know? So I tried to find poems that they could identify with and poems that break the break, the break the mold of like. You know, they’re not super hard to understand. They’re [00:21:00] not they don’t have all this hidden meaning. Their form is relatively easy to understand where you read it and go, oh, I get that.

[00:21:07] I see what’s going on. Sure. And so through that, me just trying to connect with my students and make them see that, you know, poetry specifically can be interesting or enlightening. Um, I think it really fueled me to start writing more.

[00:21:24] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:25] Alan Brown: And I, gosh, probably since maybe 2016 is when I really picked up.

[00:21:33] Picked up my, my tempo a little bit on writing. And for me it’s been a, a way of processing stuff. Um, and it’s a range of stuff, things that are important or things that I don’t understand challenges. Things in the world that don’t make sense to me or things in the world that anger me or frustrate me.

[00:21:56] Mm-hmm. Um, or as a way of, [00:22:00] of recording an, an important moment that I think is worthy of, of preserving, um, whether with my, my family or memories with my, my granddad, who is a World War II era. Both my granddad’s were World War II era officers. And so poetry kind of became a way to think through hard things that I couldn’t necessarily make sense of verbally maybe.

[00:22:28] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:29] Alan Brown: Um, ‘ cause when you’re writing a poem, you have to slow things way down and you have to think deliberately and focus, and it might take you 30 minutes to write. Two lines or a stanza, because you might change a word, you might four times and you might change the way the, the, the lines are positioned.

[00:22:50] And it might take me, it might, I might work on a poem for an entire week. You know, one hour at a time over the course of the week. ’cause you, you, [00:23:00] you chew on it, you scribble some stuff down on a sticky note and stick it in your bedside table and you bring it down and you start writing a little bit more and then, you know, but that process of thinking about it and setting it aside.

[00:23:16] Analyzing the language that you’re using to try to represent what it is that’s going through your brain. Mm-hmm. So helpful. Such a deliberate way of. Seeking a greater level of understanding about something.

[00:23:32] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:23:32] Alan Brown: Um,

[00:23:33] Scott DeLuzio: yeah, I, I get where you’re coming from with that because and I, I have mentioned this on the show before, so any of the listeners here in this, again, you know, sorry, but I’m gonna say it again just for the benefit of the conversation and anyone who maybe hasn’t heard it, but in a, a therapy session that I was in.

[00:23:51] A couple years ago part of it was to write down like pen and paper, write down about an event that, you know, a [00:24:00] traumatic incident and you know, what, what happened. And, and just write as much as you can down. And the strange thing to me was like, it was a story I had talked about before. It, the thing that, that had happened.

[00:24:13] I had spoken it before. And so I said, okay, how hard could this be? I, I said this. You know, however many times in, in the past that should be no problem. And when I started writing it, I, I guess what, like in. What was explained to me was that when you’re writing, you write a whole lot slower than you speak, and so it forces you to kind of slow down your thoughts.

[00:24:38] And as I’m writing, my brain is kind of going on to the next thing and it has time to process even more stuff. And, and there were like other things that popped in my mind of that incident that I, I don’t know if I forgot about ’em or I just kind of tucked ’em away or, or whatever. And. It, it allowed me to see so [00:25:00] much more than I would have if I just, you know, you and me talking right now about that same incident.

[00:25:06] I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t have the same recollection of things as if, as I did when I was writing those things down. And so something like poetry, like you were just describing. Where, you know, even just two lines could take you a a half hour to write and you’re really thinking about how to put the words together and all the, the lines and everything.

[00:25:28] Doing all this, the stuff. I was never good at poetry ever. And so I’m not gonna, you know, pretend like I know what I’m even talking about with that. But, um, but, but with that I think you’re slowing down so much that. You’re, it’s forcing yourself to process some of the things that maybe you wouldn’t have even thought to have you know, process or, or even think about.

[00:25:54] Right? Yeah.

[00:25:54] Alan Brown: Yeah, for sure. And poetry for me is really the medium.

[00:25:59] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:59] Alan Brown: I mean, [00:26:00] whether you’re journaling to yourself in a book, whether it’s writing by hand or typing, you know, or painting or mm-hmm. Writing music, it, I think you can do the same mental gymnastics. For lack of a better analogy. Sure. With any of those mediums and poetry was just the medium that I, I took to that, that, you know, I, I feel like kind of a cheater because I didn’t really go to school to learn how to write poetry.

[00:26:27] You know, you don’t have to sit and learn chords, you don’t have to learn to write to, to read music. You just kind of can, I think anybody can just sit down and start scribbling out stuff and, and write a poem because. I don’t, I don’t view poetry as having any rules. I, I see poetry as this like super malleable form that anybody can get their hands on, figuratively and just start making something out of.

[00:26:53] Mm-hmm. Because, you know, if you’re, if you’re, like, if you, you get a, a ball of clay, right? And you start molding [00:27:00] something, you know, everybody can mold something to look like it was different than the ball of clay originally. And to me that’s kind of what. Poetry really is, and Sure. And I might be oversimplifying it just a bit.

[00:27:14] And if you’re a, if you’re a poetry scholar or whatever, and you’ve studied poetry from back to the 18th and 17th centuries, or a Shakespearean scholar or whatever, you’re gonna have a different take on it and, and, and, and call my bullshit. But, and that’s fine. But free verse poetry, which is largely what I like to write, is so open and so fluid.

[00:27:37] And it’s really, it’s not judgmental, right? Mm-hmm. There’s not a, a piece of paper with, with a line of ink on it from your pen has no judgment, and that’s where you start.

[00:27:51] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:27:53] Alan Brown: And you can build on that, and then you can revise it and take things and switch ’em around and [00:28:00] change words and refine and polish, and then you can sand it off again and make it rough and then polish it again.

[00:28:08] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:09] Alan Brown: I’m mixing my metaphors all over the place as I’m talking about this, but you know, I really like what you were saying about. Writing and how it forces you to slow down. I, I remember the podcast that you’re talking about. It actually was one of the more recent ones, just in the last, uh, couple months, if I recall.

[00:28:26] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:28:26] Alan Brown: Was it the, the Navy, the na, the Navy guy in the, the Submariner, isn’t it that you were talking

[00:28:31] Scott DeLuzio: about? Uh, you know what, that might’ve been the, the episode. Yeah. It, it was, um, yeah, I, I forget the exact conversation. I sometimes, I, I do so many of these, uh, episodes that they kind of blend together and I.

[00:28:42] I sometimes am hesitant to even say like, who the guest was or even if I, in the back of my head, I kind of know because very often I, I confuse things and I get conversations mixed up and I’m like, I, I don’t wanna make an ass myself.

[00:28:55] Alan Brown: Well, he was talking about stoicism, his book about Yes. Stoicism. And you [00:29:00] did, you had a nice, yeah, I, it really connected with me.

[00:29:02] ’cause the way you articulated, slowing down, allowing your brain to catch up and so forth is so. I hadn’t articulated it quite that way, and it’s a really, really great way to capture what I feel. It, it, it does.

[00:29:18] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:19] Alan Brown: Um, I, you know, I think poetry for me is, is there’s a, is an appeal to it because, you know, while I was on active duty in the army.

[00:29:32] Every once in a while the topic of poetry might come up and the looks I can, I can think back to the, the goofy looks that people would give me when I say, oh yeah, I write poetry. They’re like, what the fuck? You know, you just do a head tilt. I’m like, what kind of, you know, you’re a, you’re a freaking grunt army dude.

[00:29:50] What, what does poetry have to do with any of that? And I always kind of got a little bit of a kick outta that. ’cause it was. It was just offbeat enough. Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] And non-mainstream enough to kind of be interesting to me. I always kind of took the road less traveled in a way and did something, you know, try to be different.

[00:30:10] So being the, the army dude that, that writes poetry was, had a little bit of an appeal I never considered myself, and I still don’t, I don’t consider myself a poet. I consider myself a an army dude that. Writes poetry once in a while. Sure. Maybe that’s not a difference. But if you say you’re a poet, I think you’re comparing yourself to Shakespeare and Emily Dickinson.

[00:30:36] And Walt Whitman. Right. And I don’t, I’m not even gonna go there with them. ’cause those guys are amazing and, and true geniuses. But

[00:30:43] Scott DeLuzio: sure.

[00:30:44] Alan Brown: To be able to at least try to emulate and follow and try to learn from some of the things that, that. People did and even, you know, it’s amazing what somebody that really feels, feels something deep [00:31:00] and is able to translate those deep, honest, sincere, raw feelings onto paper in a fluid way.

[00:31:13] You’d be surprised at what the average person can put down and how powerful and impactful it can be, even if it’s raw, even if it’s not polished. And sometimes that, that raw jerky and and imprecise language just scrapes at your soul when you hear it. And you know, and that. To me is I think what the value is, is of it.

[00:31:43] And poetry’s so economical too. I mean, you can write a poem in 16 words that says something or gives a, a picture of, of something important, or you can go on for pages versus like a short story or a novel. I mean, that’s a, that’s [00:32:00] a major undertaking. But I can write a poem in a, I mean, I can start, I can draft a poem and maybe.

[00:32:06] Five minutes.

[00:32:08] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:32:08] Alan Brown: And then spend another week polishing it and working on it and tweaking it and changing it before, before I feel like I’m ready to let it set it down.

[00:32:19] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. And, and the other nice thing about it too is that. You can pick up a notebook and just start writing in that notebook and nobody else needs to see it.

[00:32:30] It could be just for you if, if that’s what you want. If you want to write a whole bunch of poems and publish a book with them, be my guess. You can do that too if you want, but you don’t have to. And if, I guess the reason why I’m bringing that up is because if there’s somebody out there who’s listening.

[00:32:47] And they think that maybe this could help them process through something that they’re going through. I mean, what the hell Go, go to the, go to the store, pick up a notebook. I mean, it’s probably a dollar for a notebook or something and you know, grab a pen [00:33:00] and write down whatever, or, or on your computer, if you have a computer or, or whatever.

[00:33:04] Just, just write down something and. I don’t know. I, I think that, that, that could be beneficial and nobody else has to see it. You, I mean, you could rip it out the page outta the notebook and burn it for my care, you know? Yeah. You know, do whatever you want with it, but if it helps you process through whatever it is you’re going through, I mean, give it a shot anyways.

[00:33:25] I mean, if, if you, you’re sitting there saying, I, you know, I’ve tried all these different things and nothing seems to work well, what do you got to lose? Give it, give it a shot and, and see how. How this might help you and, and be beneficial. And, and there’s, there’s so many different things that you could do with not just poetry, right?

[00:33:43] Like the poetry is, like you said, that’s the, the art form that you’ve. Use ’cause that kind of resonates with you. Mm-hmm. You know, it could be journaling, it could be any, anything. It could be painting or sculpting or gardening or who, God, who knows. Yeah. Car [00:34:00] mechanic type work or, or woodwork or, or anything.

[00:34:03] And you can kind of tell a story through all of those different mediums that, that we’re talking about here and. It doesn’t have to be something that is written, it could be any number of different, different art forms, and you’re still processing things like if you’re painting a, a, a painting mm-hmm.

[00:34:27] You’re looking at how, how the different colors kind of interact with each other and how, you know, the story that you’re trying to tell in this particular painting and, and what you want it to look like and, and all the different things. And it’s, it’s it, it. It’s just a way for you to get that same kind of thought out of you, out, out of your head, and onto a canvas, onto a page, onto whatever, and.

[00:34:50] It, it really forces you to slow down and say, okay, like maybe, maybe this lighting isn’t the right way in this painting that I’m doing, or, or maybe you know, [00:35:00] something else because I want it to convey this particular message, but you’re, again, you’re slowing down. I think that’s kind of the, the gist of all of this is, is just being able to slow down and figure things out and, you know, that that could even go for things like we were talking about earlier. You know, that transition period and you know, what do I wanna do when I grow up, when I get out of the military and, and I’m working a job that I don’t really like? Even, even just writing about the things that you do like, and that could be just something that you do to.

[00:35:27] Slow down and help yourself kind of process through some of the options that you have. Maybe a pros and cons list or, or something like that. You know, there’s, there’s a lot of different things that you can do and I, I, I like giving some sort of takeaway from, from an episode like this, you know, especially when we’re, we’re talking about things that might be a little abstract to certain people, so.

[00:35:49] With all the stuff that we are kind of chatting about here, you know, writing and all that kinda stuff. You’ve, you’ve also written a book and I’d like for [00:36:00] us to be able to get a little bit about that, uh, in, in this, uh, episode as well. Tell us a little bit about what that book’s all about and you know, yeah, give us, give us kind of a background on that.

[00:36:10] Alan Brown: Yeah, so he started amassing a kind of a pile of, of poems that I was, I was kind of, I mean, proud of in a, in a way that, that really, and. Pretty soon I had this stack of stuff and I’m like, what am I gonna do with this? And I’d been toying at the idea of trying to put a book out for years. And, you know, the, the, the Poetry Publishing environment is, is really interesting and unique and to try to find a publisher who’s really.

[00:36:40] Kind of excited about your stuff is, is definitely a challenge. But these days the, the self-publishing opportunity is really easy. The, the, the, the different websites, different mechanisms for. Self-publishing or there’s so many of ’em. And I, you know, I had a bunch of time kind of at lapse [00:37:00] from working from last, last spring here, this fall or in 2025 and just decided it’s, it’s time to get off my butt and figure something out.

[00:37:12] And, um. So I scraped together kind of the, the ones that I thought were relevant and, and tried to put ’em into some sort of order, uh, that that told a story to the best of, of my ability. And, you know, I started revisiting all the, all the old poems I hadn’t maybe dusted off for years and probably rewrote a whole bunch of them, or at least modified and revised a bunch of them and put, put this, put it together and.

[00:37:41] It was a really good project. I spent a good chunk of this last summer in 2025 working on it. And you know, an hour here, here just focused in on how, you know, what word goes here and how do I format this poem and how do I, [00:38:00] you know, get everything all done. ’cause you have to do all that yourself. Anyway, it, it published in September.

[00:38:06] It’s on Amazon called, uh, when the Uniform No Longer Fits, reflections on Military Service, family, and Being a Veteran. My, my objective of it is connect with folks who’ve maybe been in a similar situation. And or to connect with folks who haven’t, right? So you’ve got veterans, you’ve got currently active duty folks that may be able to relate to some of my experiences.

[00:38:34] Many of my, many of the poems are very autobiographical. Uh, they reflect experiences and memories while I was on active duty. But also, you know, I’ve got a family, I’ve got two kids, and, and they bring a an ordinate amount of joy. And frustration and all the things that come with the family and raising kids.

[00:38:52] And those memories were important to me too. And, and the value of family is something definitely that ties in with military [00:39:00] service and, and you know, ’cause. You know, military folks have families too. You know, we all value that. We all try to find where that balance is with, with work and careers and deployment and weekend duty and stuff like that, and finding time for our kids and family and then.

[00:39:21] And then just a reflection on this transition recently, what that means, and trying to find some meaning in, in my own service over in 23 years. What did that mean? Yeah. What was it valuable? What did I get from it? And so it was just, it, it’s definitely, you know, you look at the, the selection. I, I put in there, it kind of goes from, uh, the concept of service.

[00:39:48] I give a nod to more than a nod to the greatest generation grand, my granddads, and so forth, and, and really trying to pay them some respect. In a couple of different pieces, [00:40:00] I shift to deployment and some of the struggles and, and frustrations with that, trying to make, make sense out of what a year in Iraq.

[00:40:08] And for me, and then more than 20 years over there, it seems like, uh, what does that mean and why were we there? And then I shift to family a bit and then I kinda end on transition and some random stuff that, that, uh, I’ve been thinking about or experienced. And, and so it’s, it’s a, it’s not any one focused theme by any means.

[00:40:34] And, and, uh, there’s a lot of different types of forms and stuff. I would say that the, the, the. The writing, isn’t it? It’s not it’s not secretive. Deep meaning and, and hidden meaning and all that. I think what I’m trying to say is pretty much right out there. Sure. Some are more maybe accessible than others and some people are gonna relate to things of it more than others.

[00:40:57] And, uh, yeah, so it’s, [00:41:00] it has been a fun project. It’s neat to see it kind of in print and I’m really excited to see. What the reaction is. And how do folks, you know, that have been in similar shoes in military or military families, how do they respond to it? What do they react to? What, what speaks to them?

[00:41:18] And how do they assign, you know, how do they find meaning in my poems in a way that helps them or works for them, or helps with their reflection as well?

[00:41:28] Scott DeLuzio: Well, I, I like how you kind of laid it out as far as the the different progressions throughout your, your career and all the things, all the way through transition and, and all of that because, well, yes, it’s your experience and it’s what you went through and what, what you dealt with.

[00:41:48] And your experience is different than anybody else’s for sure. But. Other people probably went through similar things, and maybe this is just [00:42:00] another way for them to see somebody else’s perspective on whatever it is that, that maybe you, you wrote about. And so you know, I, I think it, it could be good for, you know, a lot of veterans who are.

[00:42:12] You know, dealing with a lot of the things that you, you were talking about, especially in their transition and what do I do when I grow up and what, what am I going, what, what is life looking like after taking that uniform off? And, uh, you know, the title of the book is, is, uh, really appropriate I think for this, you know, when the, the uniform no longer fits.

[00:42:31] We’re not just talking about, you know, you, you put on a couple pounds, right? That’s, that’s not, yeah. What, what you’re talking about. It’s like, it just, it no longer suits you. It no no longer serves you to be in the military and you’re, you’re moving on to another phase of life. We all do, we all, we all get out of the military at some point and we have to find something else to do with our, our lives.

[00:42:51] So you know, this is a perfect way to, you know, put your story out there you know, for nothing, no other [00:43:00] reason maybe than because you want to. Help somebody else out with what they’re going through or, or even just because you want to share your story for the sake of sharing it. But, but whatever the, the reasoning is, hopefully there’s somebody else out there who will pick that book up and you know, find a, a.

[00:43:19] A nugget or two of information that maybe helps them get over whatever that hump is that they need to get over. So so I think it’s great again, uh, when the uniform no longer fits as the book and, uh, you know, you said it’s on Amazon, mm-hmm. You know, I, and I, I know, you know that self publishing route, I, I did that myself for, for my book as well, and Amazon just makes it so easy to to get that book out there and not have to deal with.

[00:43:44] Publishers and all the other things that go along with it. Most people buy books on Amazon anyways, so you got like 80% of the market anyways coming, you know, to, to, uh, buy it from there anyways, so so for listeners who are interested in writing a book as [00:44:00] well, I mean, that, that’s just such a easy, low entry point.

[00:44:04] Like, like you can, you can do that so easily.

[00:44:07] Alan Brown: They make it. They make it so easy in, in so many ways. Not that it’s an easy process. It, it sure. Uh, it was very cathartic that just the time spent and, and revisiting all the, like poems from 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. Uh, and reworking it and again, sort of reprocessing you were saying something earlier about you know, the importance of writing something down and processing and so forth and

[00:44:32] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:44:32] Right.

[00:44:33] Alan Brown: There’s a point that I, I thought about is it doing that initial processing and putting it down on paper is useful and what, what you, what you do with it. Maybe you put it in a drawer, maybe you burn it. But I think there’s also like the next level. Something that is super useful is actually going back and rereading it after time.

[00:44:53] Mm-hmm. ’cause seeing if you’re stepping, you’re taking a step back and you’re looking at, at what you are [00:45:00] thinking at that moment in those thoughts, you’ve had time to sort of process. You’ve had maybe step away from it a little bit and rereading it allows you to go through that process again and maybe see something more clearly or maybe recognize something that you are.

[00:45:15] Writing about or thinking about that might not have totally clicked at the time. It’s like, you know, you put something down on paper, whether it’s a poem or a short story or a journal. And you go reread it. It’s like taking another colored lens and putting it over the top of it after time. And sure invariably, you’re gonna see something or you’re gonna learn something different because you’re perceiving it slightly differently.

[00:45:39] And even if it’s just a matter of a week or a month or a couple of days, you see it differently and you process it a little bit differently and that can help. With whatever it is that you’re trying to remember or process or come to terms with. So, and

[00:45:58] Scott DeLuzio: yeah,

[00:45:58] Alan Brown: 15 years. [00:46:00] This book for me did a lot of that. I think why did I write this poem?

[00:46:05] What, what did this mean to me? What was I getting? What was my point? And I think when I originally wrote some of these, I was thinking I was trying to make a certain point, but. Five years later when I dusted it off and reformed it, reformatted it and maybe did some revision, a lot of new meaning came out of it and a lot, I got a lot more insight into where I was and maybe where I am now.

[00:46:30] And so,

[00:46:30] Scott DeLuzio: yeah,

[00:46:31] Alan Brown: my goal, my wish, putting. And you know, I’ve preserved it for my family, my kids, you know, if, if nothing more than my kids read it, you know, in 10, 15, 5 years, whatever, and find some insight into me, into my life that is useful. I think that’s probably all I could ever ask. Sure. But if beyond that, if somebody else can do that, that would be great.

[00:46:57] And, and I would. I would say if, [00:47:00] if there’s anybody, any of your listeners that end up picking this up and they, and they connect with anything in it, my email address is in the back. And I would love nothing more than to hear feedback about a specific poem or the book or anything that connects with them.

[00:47:15] Please, please engage me, ’cause I’d love to hear it. It’s my, my book is new really new. It’s only been out a couple of months and haven’t gotten a lot of input or feedback thus far. And I, I really would talk to folks that, um. Have an opinion and whether it’s connects with them or whether they would do something differently, I’d, I’d welcome any of that input and feedback.

[00:47:38] So send me an email and let’s start a conversation.

[00:47:41] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that, that would be great. And again, your email’s in the, the back of the book there, but I, I will have a link to the book in the show notes for the listeners so that they can click through and, and get a copy of the book. And, uh. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully that does resonate with somebody who is listening here and they, they check it out [00:48:00] and yeah, absolutely.

[00:48:00] Reach out and you know, pick Alan’s brain or, you know, send your compliments or your feedback or, or whatever. Yeah. It, it happens to be, um, because, uh, I know writing a book myself, sometimes it, it’s, uh, kind of, kind of feels a little bit lonely when you, when you get the book out there, you know, people have bought it.

[00:48:18] And then you don’t hear much about it, and it’s like, oh, shoot, did I, did I really screw this thing up? Or what, what happened here? So, um, yeah, you know, but, but then you, then you do start getting that feedback and it’s like, okay, good. I could breathe it. I, I didn’t totally screw things up here. It, it turned out.

[00:48:34] Pretty good. It turned out okay, so, uh, yep. Sure. So, well, Alan I, I do appreciate you coming on and, and sharing your experiences because it, you know, like a lot of veterans, like we said before, a lot of folks go through very similar situations where they, they struggle with that transition, finding a sense of purpose and meaning and identity and all those kind of things, comradery even, and, and stuff like that.

[00:48:58] And, and, uh, figure out what [00:49:00] they wanna do with their lives, uh, you know, after the military. But. Processing things and dealing with them in everyone’s unique individual ways is, I think, important and figuring out a way to do that. In your case, I happen to be poetry that might not be for everybody, but that it, there is something out there for everybody.

[00:49:18] I’m sure it just mm-hmm. A matter of figuring out what that thing is. And you know, like I, I’ve said this dozens of times on this show before, but if you. Feel like you’ve tried everything you haven’t there. There are other things out there, and if you haven’t done any sort of writing, whether it’s poetry or not, doesn’t matter if you haven’t done any sort of writing.

[00:49:36] Pick up a notebook and, and just start writing stuff down and see, see where it takes you. Maybe it takes you someplace good. Maybe, maybe you don’t like it, but at least there’s something else that you can try and, and you can keep, keep on trying. So I, I think that’s kind of the, the big, uh, you know, takeaway there is like, don’t, don’t just quit because you think you’ve tried everything.

[00:49:54] There’s, there’s so many things out there that you can keep doing. So writing, being one of them and, and dozens of other things. [00:50:00] So so Alan, thanks so much for coming on and. And sharing your experiences and, and your, your journey with us. I, I really do appreciate it.

[00:50:07] Alan Brown: Thanks. It was great to be here.

[00:50:09] Thanks so much and, and good luck to you.

[00:50:12] Scott DeLuzio: All right. Thanks so much.