Episode 568 Johnnie Gilpen What Keeps Vets Alive After Service Transcript

This transcript is from episode 568 with guest Johnnie Gilpen.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: You can run on adrenaline for years. Then it starts showing up at home, at work, and places that you don’t really want it to be. Showing up. Your sleep is light or non-existent. You snap at the small things. You sit in the same room with your family and feel like you’re so far away that you might as well not even be there.

[00:00:21] You tell yourself to handle it alone because that’s what you learned to do. This episode is going to give you a clear way to stop doing that. Our guest today, Johnny Gilpin, has worked in medicine for decades and works pediatric emergency shifts. He, he lays out three supports that kept him steady when work and loss stacked up.

[00:00:44] Uh, faith, three people he can call at any hour, and counseling plus conversations with. Fellow veterans and other folks, he explains how to build that small circle on purpose and how to use it before you hit a breaking point. [00:01:00] You also hear why helping other vets teaching and writing can reduce the load that you carry at home.

[00:01:06] Before I get into this episode, though, I wanna take a moment to raise awareness for something that I feel is deeply important to our community. The Global War On Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism.

[00:01:26] This memorial will become both a tribute to those who have served and a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come. If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

[00:01:44]

[00:01:57] Scott DeLuzio: Hey Johnny, welcome to the show. [00:02:00] Really glad to have you here.

[00:02:01] Johnnie Gilpen: Oh, thanks for having me. I

[00:02:02] appreciate you taking the time, inviting me on.

[00:02:05] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you bet. Yeah, you bet.

[00:02:06] Before we get into the conversation today, would you mind just taking a minute to introduce yourself and tell the listeners a little bit about who you are you know, for anyone who might not be familiar with you.

[00:02:17] Johnnie Gilpen: Yeah, my name’s Johnny Gilpen. I currently live in Oklahoma. I’m a pediatric emergency medicine pa. I work at the Children’s Hospital in Oklahoma City 10 days a month. Then I work doing veteran CNP exams doing that five, six days a month, traveling, all over Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, key West other places.

[00:02:41] Yeah, everybody has that look a few other places. And then, myself and a couple other guys. We help other vets do dis help get their disability stuff going. And then we just started a new company helping partner with some 5 0 [00:03:00] 3 B pharmacy to help veterans first responders do. Wellness programs, helping with the GL like Tuti and

[00:03:12] semaglutide and stuff help give ’em at a discounted rate, help ’em lose weight.

[00:03:18] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:03:19] Johnnie Gilpen: and then we travel with our program, art of Medicine, So always get

[00:03:23] something going.

[00:03:25] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, it seems like you got a lot of plates spinning at, at the same time, so I appreciate you,

[00:03:29] you know, carving out a little bit of time here to come on the show and, and chat with us here. And so you started out, is that correct? I just wanna kind of clarify kind of background stuff. You

[00:03:38] Johnnie Gilpen: I did a couple years

[00:03:41] in the Oklahoma National

[00:03:42] Guard as a helicopter. I worked

[00:03:44] on Huey’s

[00:03:45] and then joined the active

[00:03:47] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:03:47]

[00:03:47] Johnnie Gilpen: Navy.

[00:03:50] Scott DeLuzio: Okay, cool. So,

[00:03:51] So, so you, so you were working, so you kind of transitioned from, from one to the other, but which, you know, we talked to a lot of people and, you know, that that [00:04:00] happens from time to time. It’s always kind of, kind of cool seeing people switch branches and stuff and seeing you know, how that, that plays out.

[00:04:05] But so your, your work now is. Is more in, you know, like emergency medicine and plus all the, the other stuff that you, you were talking about as, as well. And I kind of wanna jump into this mindset that I think a lot of veterans have. As far as like, I can handle anything, I could do anything, you know, I, anything that’s thrown my way, I, I’m, you know, I’m big enough, I’m bad enough, I’m strong enough, I’m, you know, whatever quick enough I can, I can handle it all.

[00:04:30] And. This shows up in a lot of non-military settings, right. In, in our, our health and our relationships and our work and our, all the things that, that we end up doing. But we don’t always have all the tools available to us to, to handle everything. Right. And, and so, you know, how, how do you, how do you look at that situation and, and like, you know, kind of help people, coach people to figure out how to.

[00:04:57] Ask for help or get the help that they need before [00:05:00] something turns into a bigger, you know, almost emergency type situation. Right.

[00:05:03] Johnnie Gilpen: First always do as I say, not as I do you know, hey you know, it’s, it’s been three years ago, this next coming month. We were working, we’d lost six kids in about three and a half week timeframe. And I’d been involved with several of those kids just part, you know, it’s a team effort in the emergency room, you know. And one of the docs, he’s a really good friend of mine, I’d known him for a long time, and this is my 31st year in medicine. And at the, he looked at me and he goes, do you do it? And I said. Do what? And he said

[00:05:43] this and I said, you know, referring to just the question you just kind of

[00:05:47] asked me. And I said, I don’t do it

[00:05:50] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

[00:05:50] Johnnie Gilpen: I ask my wife, I’m an

[00:05:51] absolute mess. And you know, that typical

[00:05:54] deflection and

[00:05:57] Scott DeLuzio: sure.

[00:05:58] Johnnie Gilpen: He said, well, you’re still [00:06:00] here. And you know, his, his question, you know, being, or his implication or implied statement is, you

[00:06:08] know, why are you not a statistic? You know, we still see that 22 a day

[00:06:12] vets, you know, we, you know,

[00:06:14] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:15] Johnnie Gilpen: of all first responders are, 1% of all suicides are, are, are first responders. I’m still a paramedic, I’m still on the state’s disaster response team. And then we lose one physician a day to suicide twice as likely to be a female. You know, add all those up. And it really me. And that, that question, I went back to him and I said, you know, there. not any better than those guys we’ve lost. I’m not any different. I’m probably not as strong. I’m, I’m probably weaker, I said there’s three things that make me different. I think one is my faith. You know, I grew up Methodist. My wife has me going to a Baptist church, so I’m a really poor, Methodist and I’m a really [00:07:00] bad Baptist. but as you. As you’ve seen, you know, there’s, and I’ve seen that fit in life, whether it’s the military or a first responder, or just life in general. There’s something greater than all

[00:07:13] us. whether you call it God or you know, whatever you

[00:07:17] believe. For me it’s God, you know Jesus and whatnot, but whatever you believe, there’s something greater than what us and that faith drives me. Two that I have, and I told him, I said, I have this Rolodex of friends, and if I’m talking to anybody under the age of 35, I have to show ’em what a Rolodex is. most people don’t even know what that is anymore. But it is, is I have this Rolodex of brothers and sisters I know gonna. If I call one of ’em, somebody’s gonna answer the phone. Maybe not the first one, but maybe not the second one, but, and they’re gonna be there. [00:08:00] And it’s a reciprocal relationship. So that’s a key factor is that, that this group

[00:08:05] of people, it’s a reciprocal relationship. And the third thing is those tools you talk

[00:08:09] about. My dad was a Vietnam

[00:08:11] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:08:12] Johnnie Gilpen: and I had lost, we’d lost 14 guys four days before my 25th birthday. And, I came back home and my dad had told me, don’t talk about it. You know, he said you know, ’cause somebody had asked me a question about it and you know, I, try to figure out how to explain it you know, and my dad said, don’t talk about it. they don’t care that they may say they wanna know, but they really don’t want to know and they’ll never understand. And,

[00:08:43] I don’t know, 18 months later, he was diagnosed with Agent Orange

[00:08:46] Cancer and he took me,

[00:08:49] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:08:49] Johnnie Gilpen: and we went to a meeting at the Veterans Rear Adjustment Center, and he told me, he said, don’t wait 30 years to do what I did. [00:09:00] you know. To put all this stuff together. So when I talk to guys, that’s one of my missions now to go out talk to people and stand there, you know, and say, Hey, you know, we had this, you know, we talk about this thing called the foxhole mentality, you know? You know, king Solomon talks about in Ecclesiastes four 12, he talks about one can be overtaken.

[00:09:31] You know, I’m, I’m somewhere, I’m, you know, here two can be stand back to back and, and, and. Conquer, but a three stranded cord is not easily

[00:09:41] broken. Right? there’s a 1943 Army manual that says the three man foxhole is the best defensive position. One’s always on guard, one can be resting. You get

[00:09:53] the picture. So whether you, you take it from a military manual or a

[00:09:57] political manual. So I talked

[00:09:59] Scott DeLuzio: [00:10:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:00] Johnnie Gilpen: those people you’re gonna call? You know, there’s a there’s a. Guy out there. Travis, how is it, I think is how you say his last name? Post-Traumatic Growth talks about, you know. A lot, you know, people who’s this person

[00:10:13] gonna call? They’re not, you can’t take it home and talk to your wife. You’re gonna call your partner or your

[00:10:16] brother or your buddy. And,

[00:10:19] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:10:19] Johnnie Gilpen: just tell people, you know, they’re standing here. You gotta talk to people, you know, I’m talking to my students and stuff. You, you talk about it, it’s not always hard. And my wife was talking to me, we were making a comment yesterday and I still go to counseling. We still, you know, we, we’ve had a great relationship. always go to work and I say, well, how’s it going? I said, well, I woke up this morning, my wife didn’t strangle me in my sleep, and boss said, well, that doesn’t sound like a very good relationship. I said, well, we got a great relationship. I just can’t do anything about what I do in her, in her dreams at night.

[00:10:51] So, but is that just got it right. [00:11:00] Is that we were talking

[00:11:01] about and we still go

[00:11:02] to make our relationship stronger.

[00:11:05] And, but I was talking about, you

[00:11:07] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Sure.

[00:11:08] Johnnie Gilpen: I was talking about it and I said, she’s like, well, you can come home and talk to me about this stuff and some things we can, but I, you know, the first three shifts of this year, we lost a child every shift.

[00:11:20] And I told her, I said, I don’t wanna bring that evil

[00:11:23] into the house. And that’s, I think that’s the problem we, the military. What I love about the military, we’re a paramedicine, cops, firemen. paramilitary training gives people

[00:11:43] a conversation, and I’m rambling here to your con to

[00:11:46] your question, it gives us

[00:11:48] Scott DeLuzio: No, that’s fine.

[00:11:49] Johnnie Gilpen: on this concept that. can accomplish anything I put my mind to. I choose to do these things, [00:12:00] right? I can do these things.

[00:12:03] And that’s what

[00:12:04] sticks in our head. You know, that paramedic who, you know, walk out here on the street, you know, doing all these things that they do. I can do this, I can do this, I can do this. the firemen, the cop, the military guy, the problem, you know, they teach us how to do all this stuff.

[00:12:21] They teach us to go to war, how to fight. They teach us how to go in burning buildings. You know, teach us how

[00:12:28] to, you know, assess a situation in a burglary, whatever, whatever

[00:12:32] your, your profession

[00:12:34] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:12:36] Johnnie Gilpen: They don’t necessarily teach us how to come home. They don’t teach us how to, to break that down. And I think that’s the

[00:12:42] hard part. And that’s why I’m like, guys, we have to lean

[00:12:45] on each other. And

[00:12:47] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:12:47] Johnnie Gilpen: us that in the military, you know, that’s one thing about these organizations, they teach

[00:12:53] us but they also teach us

[00:12:57] teamwork. And I think.

[00:12:59] Scott DeLuzio: [00:13:00] Right.

[00:13:00] Johnnie Gilpen: You know, Sebastian Younger talks about, you know, that it’s a, it’s, people don’t

[00:13:05] crave war that environment.

[00:13:08] They crave the tribe.

[00:13:10] That’s what, that’s what You miss. miss

[00:13:13] Scott DeLuzio: Yep.

[00:13:15] Johnnie Gilpen: that

[00:13:15] cohesion, that unit, somebody in a mission greater

[00:13:18] than us. So

[00:13:21] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ‘

[00:13:22] Johnnie Gilpen: em, find something that’s a mission greater than you. Surround yourself with that type of

[00:13:27] people if you can. And if you can’t find it at work. Find it at home, find it in

[00:13:31] church, find

[00:13:31] it somewhere.

[00:13:32] It does

[00:13:33] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And having that, that tribe of people, you know, even if you know as, as small of a group of people, as three people, like you were saying, like the, if you have some, some people around you that you can reach out to when, when times get tough and, and you can talk to, and I think that’s important thing is, is having that conversation with somebody and, and.

[00:13:55] Talking and just working through things that, that’s helpful as [00:14:00] opposed to just sitting with your own thoughts. I know I’m my worst own, my, my own worst enemy when it comes to my thoughts. You know, I, I can sit there in my head and, and those thoughts will kick my ass and, and I’ll, I’ll just be going spiraling down a rabbit hole because those, those thoughts just get the better of me sometimes.

[00:14:18] And you know, if I can’t, if I had nobody at all that I could talk to, then. I’d be stuck with those, those thoughts. But having someone to be able to talk to it allows me to kind of get them out. And, you know, you don’t like to your point, you don’t always wanna necessarily bring all that stuff home and talk to your spouse or talk to, you know, someone in, in, in your family, but.

[00:14:41] Even that’s better than nothing, right? If, if you had, if that’s all you have is, is just so that, that people, you know that they’re there and they, they want to be able to help you. But, but at the same time, having someone who kind of understands what you’re going through, who’s, who’s been through something similar you know, in your case another, another doctor who’s [00:15:00] lost a patient or something like that who might understand a little bit better what you’re going through versus maybe a spouse who has no.

[00:15:08] Medical training or anything like that that never lost people, like in, in that kind of environment. So, you know, it, it might just be easier that way to talk to someone who, who does understand it. But, but getting that, that, those thoughts out of your head and. Into the world and, and letting somebody else give you their 2 cents, I think can help reframe your perspective on things too.

[00:15:34] And, and not to minimize what you’re going through or anything, but just more or less to you know, kind of let you step out of your own way and let let somebody else kind of help help you figure out, you know, what, what’s going on. And, and sometimes just talking it, talking it out helps. Tremendously, you know, just, just by getting that out there, right?

[00:15:52] Johnnie Gilpen: just voice it in, you know, and, and so, you know, that’s, that’s the passive aspect. But I [00:16:00] think one of the things that I found that helps us, is the active portion of that, and that’s that reciprocal relationship is that. Where if we try to go home and say, well, my wife doesn’t understand, or my parents don’t understand, or my husband

[00:16:18] doesn’t understand, you can’t necessarily make them

[00:16:21] understand. But if

[00:16:24] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:16:25] Johnnie Gilpen: to them, teach them, know, and work with them or help them with something. Find that’s where I always say find a group, find a tribe, find something, you know, I still go, you know, up until the pandemic, when we still had groups and stuff, where we get, you know, the group thing has with the

[00:16:43] VA has not, it’s become, kind of twisted

[00:16:47] since the pandemic. And I haven’t been able

[00:16:49] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:16:50] Johnnie Gilpen: truly go back. But a lot of times I would go, some days I would go because I thought, you know, man. I’m having a really crappy day. Some days I went, [00:17:00] I was go, thought I had a real crappy day till I listened to somebody else and I’m like, man, my life’s not as screwed up as everybody else’s. sometimes I went, you know, just because I had the opportunity.

[00:17:13] To show somebody, hey, there is a lot at the end of

[00:17:17] the tunnel. And that’s that active

[00:17:19] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:20] Johnnie Gilpen: where you’re helping somebody else if they want help now, you know? And I think that’s when you, you, if you get into aa this is not anything, this is me reading.

[00:17:31] Not ever been truly involved. one of the things that I think, and I’ve the book and you know, from a book that was written in 19. Thirties and I got, one of the aspects is that if you’re that sponsor, one of the best things about whether you’re a sponsor is you’re, that’s an

[00:17:49] active role. now I’ve

[00:17:52] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:52] Johnnie Gilpen: passive role to now I’m an active role. And there’s a girl. So

[00:17:58] Scott DeLuzio: Right,

[00:17:58] Johnnie Gilpen: to tell guys, get in an [00:18:00] active role teaching, you know,

[00:18:02] they always say, well, those who teach can’t do I. That’s absolutely false. I mean,

[00:18:08] Scott DeLuzio: right.

[00:18:09] Johnnie Gilpen: I mean there are those who can’t do that teach, but there are teaching. I learn so much. You know, I go to work every day and I learn something new every day, but I’m also teaching

[00:18:20] and I have to learn and prepare and stuff.

[00:18:23] So, anyway.

[00:18:25] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. No, and, and that, that makes sense too

[00:18:28] That, that active component of it because you know, part of it, and this is probably not even the point that you’re trying to make, but also part of it is that say you are a sponsor in AA or, or something along those lines. If you are setting a bad example by, by going back and, you know, taking a drink or you know, whatever, and getting drunk or, or whatever the case may be, then that you’re, you’re like, I’m letting that person down too.

[00:18:58] And that [00:19:00] is all the more reason to. Stay, you know, sober and, and not, not go down that path. And so, you know, you’re, you’re doing it for the other person, but you’re also helping yourself at the same time. And it, it’s, it’s a reciprocal relationship. Exactly. Yeah. And so that, that’s, that’s a good way to, to kind of look at that.

[00:19:20] And, and there are. Lots of groups and, and you know, you mentioned aa, but there’s, that’s not the only type of group that’s out there. There’s even, you know, group therapy for, you know, mental health type things and, and other stuff like that, that

[00:19:32] that do exist. And you know, I know, like you said, COVID kind of destroyed some of that stuff, but but they, they still do exist.

[00:19:39] They’re still out there if you, if you wanna look for ’em and find them, you know?

[00:19:42] Johnnie Gilpen: Yeah.

[00:19:42] There

[00:19:43] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:19:43] Johnnie Gilpen: A Celebrate Recovery, which covers

[00:19:45] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:46] Johnnie Gilpen: It just got where the va there are groups. You had to be at a specific time and you had to go and I work shift work. So weeks I may work, like tomorrow I work [00:20:00] Tuesday, and then I work Friday. Then I work Sunday.

[00:20:03] And Then

[00:20:05] Then I work a Tuesday or a Monday or a Thursday, you know,

[00:20:08] so, and if you can’t come on a

[00:20:11] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Right.

[00:20:11] Johnnie Gilpen: don’t, they won’t let you

[00:20:12] keep coming,

[00:20:14] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so, so that, that, that kind of thing is.

[00:20:18] Yeah, that, that kind of thing’s tough for people like you who, who don’t have a set schedule and you can’t always commit to it. But but having, finding something, some sort of group like that is, I think, important to, to get that community aspect. Even, even if you have nobody else, you can reach out to it.

[00:20:35] At least now you have a group that you can go to and you can talk to and you can have, you know, some, somebody there. You may not have necessarily a Rolodex, but you have, you have your, you have your group that you can go to at least, you know, once a week or something like that, where you, you can, you can get that conversation going and you know, even other, other types of things too, hobbies and stuff that you might be interested in.

[00:20:54] There’s, there’s people there and then, then you kind of grow your network that way as well. So

[00:20:58] Johnnie Gilpen: Yeah.

[00:20:58] Scott DeLuzio: there’s lots of options [00:21:00] to all that. But you know, I think the, the biggest thing is getting, being, being able to have that environment to get your, your. Your thoughts out, your story, out, whatever it is.

[00:21:09] And, and actually speaking of stories, I want to kind of switch gears just a little bit here. But,

[00:21:13] Johnnie Gilpen: ahead.

[00:21:13] Scott DeLuzio: You also help, you also help veterans and first responders and all, all the, you know, the, those types of people to get their stories out, right? You, you kind of kinda have a, like a publishing arm of what you do and, and help, help him with that.

[00:21:27] Johnnie Gilpen: Well, yeah,

[00:21:28] we’ve started one. It hasn’t, it’s not grown. You know, we started

[00:21:31] it for ourselves myself and some other guys. I’m a Tillman scholar. Pat Tillman Foundation paid for me to go to school which is, and it’s an amazing organization if you’re not familiar with it, for any of your guys out there. If you’re in. A school program and looking for a great opportunity, think about applying to be a Tillman scholar. It will change your life. And so I started writing, I got selected to. [00:22:00] a warhorse riding fellow. If, if you’re not familiar with the Warhorse Journal it’s the Warhorse Journal. TJ Brennan is the editor former Marine one eight Marine Fallujah. He’s the guy who broke the Marines United Story, several years ago about the harassment of the female Marines. Great dude. So I got to go to, the Washington Post and some other stuff. And so I’ve written three articles for them. So started there and I wrote my own book, and then we started just, we’ve got some other stuff. That are publishing for our stuff. And, we’ve had some guys that I’ve helped them get their other stuff doing and it’s, I’ve had a couple guys come to me and we’ve got some things in, in the works. It’s called 84 0 4 publishing. We’ve got some cartoon books we’re working on for some other people.

[00:22:49] But it’s I’ve worked with guys to show ’em how to

[00:22:53] publish and get their stuff done and, and find other routes and

[00:22:57] so, yeah.

[00:22:58] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. [00:23:00] Yeah. And, and I, I think it’s important too for, for folks, especially in, in these lines of work, you know, whether it’s a veteran or first responder, you know, healthcare professionals, any of those, those types of people to be able to get their stories out there be, because I think the, the general public knows what they see from Hollywood and TV shows and those types of things, but they don’t know what.

[00:23:22] You as an individual, what you went through and or somebody else as, as an individual, what they went through and, and what life is really like for those folks. And being able to tell those stories a will help the general public kind of understand what, what people go through, you know, for, for anyone who reads those books.

[00:23:41] But, but also it, it helps those individuals who are writing those, those stories. Process, whatever it is that they, they went through. I, I think and I, I, I think there’s, there’s a lot of healing that can take place through storytelling. I mean, it’s not for everybody, for sure, but it, you know, there’s a lot of people out there who can benefit [00:24:00] from, from those types of stories, right.

[00:24:02] Johnnie Gilpen: Yeah, so storytelling comes in multiple. I just had a friend of mine who just finished, he went to it’s a songwriter. There’s

[00:24:10] a, a deal out there for songwriters where they help you

[00:24:13] write songs. There’s a song Aaron Lewis just published. A while back called, they called me Doc. If you get a chance, you can listen to it.

[00:24:22] There’s a couple different people who have done it, but it was written in this deal where they teach this. And anyway, he had gone to Maine and he worked with a couple, Jason rider who works with Jason Aldean, and then Chris Stapleton’s father-in-law. So, and they’re publishing a song he wrote.

[00:24:40] So, and then the cool thing about it is, is that, so they help him write their songs, then they’re giving him guitar lessons to help him, and then he’s going to get the opportunity

[00:24:51] to present it on the stage at the Grand Ole Opry at

[00:24:55] some point. So, you know,

[00:24:57] Scott DeLuzio: Oh wow. Wow.

[00:24:58] Johnnie Gilpen: So you know, you have [00:25:00] that storytelling and there’s a whole group of. Poems and, you know, people doing poems and painting and artistic the ways I got selected to go in March. I’m gonna go over here to surf.

[00:25:11] That could be comical.

[00:25:12] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:25:13] Johnnie Gilpen: be a, it could be a whole new comical ride in itself. We’ll see how that goes. I’ve never surfed before, so, you know, there’s that, and then you have, you know, so the Warhorse Journal. I wrote my first story in 2019, was a post nine 11 s. Journal they do active reporting and then every Wednesday they publish Reflections for Veterans. I was the first person that was a pre nine and 11 story. And

[00:25:50] now they write, they’ve got stories for Korea, Vietnam, world War II

[00:25:53] even. And so,

[00:25:55] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:25:56] Johnnie Gilpen: I, I, I think that’s pretty cool that, you [00:26:00] know, TJ took a chance on me and, and it’s gone a long way. But. And when I wrote my, started writing my book, TJ was a great, you know, inspiration and, and asset to talking. And of course TJ has a great relationship with the foundation, you know, so the foundation made that link.

[00:26:20] And, then another guy by the name of Terry Weaver, who is a Tillman Scholar, former Navy corpsman, you know, Terry. His fir, or I guess published his first movie. It’s out right now on Amazon. It’s called The Beast of Trinity, Trinity County, I believe. Terry Weaver. But he’s published a series of books. He’s got a couple that he did that were nonfiction and fiction series and. So, you know,

[00:26:51] there’s so many avenues to tell your story and how you tell your

[00:26:54] story. you could

[00:26:56] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:26:57] Johnnie Gilpen: things or you could write real, you

[00:26:59] can write [00:27:00] it all down. I’ve written

[00:27:01] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:01] Johnnie Gilpen: that are for me and me only. And when I wrote my book, I had to change the names to protect the guilty. There’s I,

[00:27:10] it’s, you know, there’s, there’s

[00:27:12] a, in what I, were you in the Army?

[00:27:14] I, I’m assuming, what branch were you

[00:27:16] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Army. Yep.

[00:27:17] Johnnie Gilpen: Yeah.

[00:27:18] Scott DeLuzio: I.

[00:27:18] Johnnie Gilpen: Yeah.

[00:27:21] Well, in the Navy and the Marine Corps we have sea stories and so the difference between a fairytale and a sea story is a fairytale starts out once upon a time and a sea story starts out.

[00:27:31] Well, there I was. And so I, I wrote a book of sea stories really, you know, changed the names, protected guilty, and, the book was done. You know, I, I wrote all the, the dumb things that happened that Marines and sailors do. You know, I, I created this bar, that was basically a combination of two bars that were in North Carolina at Camp Lejeune and changed some names and, one of [00:28:00] the main characters in the book. It was a really good friend of mine and when his, that I, I based it off of him, one of the characters. And when his wife read the book I asked him, I said, well, what’d your wife thinking? And she came out and looked at me and said, please tell me you’re not Stanley. Like she knew. And yeah, one of the other main characters in the book’s wife called me and said, you know, I know that character is me

[00:28:27] and, you know, is, is her husband and whatnot.

[00:28:31] And

[00:28:31] anyway, she wasn’t happy with the name

[00:28:33] Scott DeLuzio: That’s funny.

[00:28:34] Johnnie Gilpen: her the book. We’ll just leave it at that. But,

[00:28:37] But anyway, so, but it was just

[00:28:40] kind of comical. But, you know, I’ve had to

[00:28:43] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:28:43] Johnnie Gilpen: in the book that said, you know, this book was written by a sailor about sailors and marines and, and just written of how a

[00:28:52] bunch of E twos e the E four mafia actually,

[00:28:56] you know, are, and

[00:28:57] Scott DeLuzio: right.

[00:28:58] Johnnie Gilpen: got cartoons so Marines [00:29:00] can

[00:29:00] read it and

[00:29:00] firemen can read it.

[00:29:01] But

[00:29:02] anyway.

[00:29:03] Scott DeLuzio: And the, that, that type of humor though, like tho those, those kind of dumb stories of all the, the stupid stuff that, that people do and, and everything it, it. Can take people back too, to think about their own time when they were at the bar with their buddies and they were, they were doing the stupid things and, or they were, you know, having parties in the, the barracks or doing whatever it was that they were doing that that maybe got a little outta hand or, or whatever.

[00:29:31] But those, those are the things that you, you kind of never forget. But, but sometimes we need to be reminded of those things. Some of those good times. ’cause we get so stuck in all the. The negativity that, that we have going on in our heads. And so when you, when you read about those kind of stories, even though they’re, you know, quote unquote fictional, you know, or, or, so they, they’re not, they’re not my stories, they’re somebody else’s stories.

[00:29:54] But you know, you, you, you read those and, and then you, you kind of start thinking to [00:30:00] yourself like, oh yeah, I was in a similar situation. And, and it, it kind of brings back some of those, those good memories and it

[00:30:05] Johnnie Gilpen: Everybody

[00:30:06] Scott DeLuzio: you to get outta your own head.

[00:30:08] Johnnie Gilpen: Everybody has an HN Stanley and everybody has a Lance Corporal. Frankie the Freak in their unit. I don’t care

[00:30:14] who you are and everybody, you know, everybody has

[00:30:16] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:30:17] Johnnie Gilpen: major or whatever, you know. And what was interesting about when I wrote it, like it was during, I started, right during the pandemic, you know, I didn’t, every counselor, everybody you go to says, you know, write stuff down.

[00:30:29] I didn’t need to write the bad stuff. So I started writing this and it was a, it was a cathartic for me. And two guys that I served with we served in the same unit, second Battalion, eighth Marines at the same time he was my squad leader, became the, the sergeant Major for second Marine Division. Another guy, he was became. The command Master chief for Second Marine Division went on to become the Mar Forland master chief. You know, these guys wrote amazing, you know, Hey, you need to read this book and whatnot. Had some great [00:31:00] people who read the book and looked at it, and so, but I sent it to my old battalion commander, or not battalion commander, but my battalion surgeon, and. When he read it, he came back to me and he didn’t say a single word about the book. What he’d said is that it brought what you said it brought back, this is when I knew I’d done something different, that he talked about he, you know, he went on to become, he works at the Mayo Clinic and the the Family Medicine Residency.

[00:31:36] You know, he’s a great doc and he said. He remembered teaching us young corpsman, you know, he just got out of school resident, you know, and it was one of the greatest times of his life and all of the things that we did. And then one of the guys that we had lost in that 14 was another fellow corpsman and a day or so before. That [00:32:00] all happened. His name was Garmin Brent Garmin, Garmin had gave the doc a Cuban cigar and Doc talks about it. He said he really didn’t know him that well, but he just, you know, had known him and he still has that cigar on a shelf or the mantle at his hunting cabin in Minnesota and. He talks about, so in his two and a half page email, not a word was said about the book. And I said, Hey Doc, can I put this in the book? And I did. I put the reflections of Italian surgeon. 25 years later, we’re coming up on the 30th. This year will be the 30th anniversary of that event Operation. Purple Star. But. So it was cool. And so then I, after publishing it, I had guys that come out

[00:32:59] and [00:33:00] said, man, my wife now understands some of the gibberish coming outta my,

[00:33:03] you know, but then I had Vietnam vets, I had one guy came back to me and said, you know, I haven’t

[00:33:09] wanna talk about my service. You know, now I feel like I

[00:33:12] can, other guys, you know, just so many great things about it.

[00:33:18] And. That’s

[00:33:20] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:33:21] Johnnie Gilpen: writing does. Why do we write, you know, there’s a book out there. Why do we write? And I wrote a, a deal on about why do we write. It can be cathartic, it can release demons, but it can also build bridges and

[00:33:37] talk about things,

[00:33:39] And go

[00:33:40] from there.

[00:33:42] Scott DeLuzio: Right, right.

[00:33:43] Johnnie Gilpen: it’s gonna

[00:33:43] Scott DeLuzio: And

[00:33:44] Johnnie Gilpen: it’s

[00:33:44] Scott DeLuzio: you know.

[00:33:46] Right, exactly. When you were talking about that just a, just a minute ago, I was thinking back to this past summer I was visiting some of the guys that I served with in the Army that we, we deployed to Afghanistan. I [00:34:00] ended up writing a book about our deployment and, and things like that.

[00:34:03] And I was talking to one of the guys and he said, a lot of their, the wives have read my book of, of the guys that I, I served with and they read it and they were able to then look at their husband and say, I kind of get what you’re going through now. Like, not I get it, like I’ve been there or anything like that, but stuff that they hadn’t talked about or didn’t wanna you know, go, go through in, in any kind of great detail or anything.

[00:34:29] They were able to get that from the book that I wrote and it. It kind of helped them in a way so that they didn’t necessarily have to talk about things that they weren’t ready to talk about, but their spouse then understood what they were going through a little bit better,

[00:34:43] Johnnie Gilpen: You bridge

[00:34:44] Scott DeLuzio: and so while,

[00:34:47] yeah, exactly.

[00:34:48] It, it was, it was just something that,

[00:34:50] you know, while they weren’t there, they couldn’t have possibly known what was going on without having that conversation. It allowed them to [00:35:00] get kind of on the same page, at least to, to say, you know what? I don’t understand what you’re, exactly, what you’re going through, but I now know why you’re, you’re dealing with it.

[00:35:09] And, and so it, it was just that little bit of help for those guys and that wasn’t even the reason I, why I wrote the book, that that was just an unintended, you know, happy. Consequence of writing the book. It, it, it was not even on my radar at the time. And then he told me that and I was like, holy crap.

[00:35:27] That, that’s amazing. I, I, I can’t believe that that’s something that, that happened. You know, and I’m, I’m glad that it did because I, I want these guys to be able to, be able to feel like they can open up and talk to people if, if that’s what they, they want to do. And, and by having some of those things already explained for them, they don’t have to necessarily talk about all the details, but they can, they can do something along those lines.

[00:35:50] So, you know, it, it was just helpful and, and he, he was very appreciative of that. So, you know. If you’re, if you’re writing a story, it, it may not even [00:36:00] be you necessarily that, that it’s helping it, it may be helping somebody else and, and you know, in unexpected and unintended ways. But, but that’s a, a benefit of doing it as well, you know?

[00:36:10] And so, so that, that was, that was just kind of unexpected, but I, I liked hearing that, you know?

[00:36:15] Johnnie Gilpen: it made it

[00:36:17] made it worthwhile. I mean,

[00:36:19] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:20] Johnnie Gilpen: of the, you know, because dad was a, like I said, I was a Vietnam vet. He died at 55 from Agent Orange Cancer. And he very elder seldom ever talked about his service. you know, I knew he was a Marine. I knew he flew on the old fours. They flew medevac. You know, I knew some did. You know, he talked about Ding and Dong Hall and a few other things, but never talked about his service. And then when he died 10 years later, we found some pictures or some slides and had ’em made up and I put ’em out on the squadron website, HM 360 6 or 8 63 63. [00:37:00] They were up there for a year and nobody, they would recognize some of the places and, some of the things, but nobody recognized any of the people in the in, in the deal. And nobody really recognized

[00:37:14] my dad. And finally

[00:37:17] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:37:17] Johnnie Gilpen: said, Hey, that looks like this guy Jerry Clemente. And so I reached out to Jerry and he goes, yeah, that’s me. And he goes, man, he said, I hadn’t thought about your dad in 50 years. And you know, and we ta talking and whatnot. And he said, well, I said, well, I can’t find who these other guys are. And he said, well, Johnny, I don’t know who they are. He said, but I can probably tell you why. Nobody knows who they are.

[00:37:41] They’re probably all dead. He said, you know, Marines, he said, you know, wanted to fly. He said

[00:37:48] he had a longer life expectancy flying as a Marine than he did as a

[00:37:52] marine on the ground. And he said, but

[00:37:54] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:37:55] Johnnie Gilpen: they needed 40 replacements. And, and my dad would never go into a, you know, we [00:38:00] live in Oklahoma where all the tornadoes are, and he would go in. But anyway, come to

[00:38:04] find out, they had lost all these people and my dad was one of

[00:38:08] four survivors. So my dad never would talk about it. So you know, you never, and so maybe that’s why he was, you know,

[00:38:17] right before he died, he

[00:38:18] took me to these deals and said, don’t wait

[00:38:20] 30 years. Now I know the, now I know

[00:38:22] some

[00:38:23] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, and,

[00:38:26] You know, it, it’s unfortunate because folks from back then, the, the Vietnam, Korea, world War II and, and, and everything, they, they approached the, the stuff that they, they dealt with during their tours overseas. A whole lot differently than we do now with, with regards to post-traumatic stress and all those, those things now, like that, that wasn’t even a, a term probably that people even knew of back then.

[00:38:52] Because they, they call it all sorts of other names and you know, regardless of what you call it, people are people and they’re dealing with [00:39:00] traumatic incidents and like we’ve been saying this whole episode is talking to people is something that will help and. A lot of them just kind of bottled it up inside and just never let any of that out, and they just kind of stuffed it on down.

[00:39:16] But at some point, that’s gonna, that’s gonna come out somehow. And, and maybe in not so great ways, you know, may, maybe it’s anger, maybe it’s drinking, maybe it’s, you know, something kind of more on the destructive side of things as opposed to the, the more helpful side of things. So. We, we wanna encourage people to, to get out there and start talking.

[00:39:38] But you know, back then that, that was almost seen, that was not almost, that was kind of seen as a sign of weakness to go and talk to somebody. And, you know, pe people are, you know, you say you’re going to a, you know, a therapist or something. It’s like, oh, what, what’s wrong with that guy? You know, like, there’s that guy’s.

[00:39:54] Probably something weird with him and let’s, let’s stay away from that guy. Right? So, so nobody did that back then unless they were [00:40:00] like, really bad off. And you know, even, even then it was, it was not as common. So, you know, it, it, it’s just unfortunate for folks of, of those older generations that the, the support and the resources just weren’t there the way they are now.

[00:40:14] And you know, so I, you know, I’m grateful that they are, and, you know, hopefully. It’s, it’s helping a lot more people than, than it would’ve, you know, way back then too, you know?

[00:40:22] Johnnie Gilpen: Okay.

[00:40:23] Scott DeLuzio: so just different times, I guess.

[00:40:25] Johnnie Gilpen: Definitely, definitely.

[00:40:28] Yeah.

[00:40:28] Scott DeLuzio: So,

[00:40:30] You know,

[00:40:30] kind of, you know, moving forward here you know, we talked about your, your book a little bit, the kind of publishing and, and all that, that kind of stuff.

[00:40:37] For folks who are interested in learning more about. Your book and maybe, maybe get a copy of your book and, and hear some of these, these kind of funny stories and, and all the, the dumb stuff that, that we do as young, young enlisted guys. You know, where, where can they go find a co copy of the book and you know, anything else that you guys are, are taking part in.

[00:40:55] Johnnie Gilpen: Well, they can always get a copy of the book on amazon.com, but they can [00:41:00] also if they wanna sign copy or something, they can go to johnny gilpen.com. And that’s J-O-H-N-N-I-E,

[00:41:07] G-I-L-P-E n.com. our website.

[00:41:11] Scott DeLuzio: Okay. Perfect. Perfect. And I’ll have links to all that in the show notes. And you, you had mentioned a couple other organizations and stuff. The, the Tillman found Pat Tillman Foundation, the War Hor Horse Journal, and things like that. So I’ll, I’ll put the links to all those in the show notes as well for folks who you know, wanna check those out.

[00:41:29] And you know. Grab a copy of the book. I’m, I’m sure it’s, you know, the, the type of thing that, that people need to, need to see. You know, like you were saying with that, that two page email that you received, you know, it wasn’t talking necessarily about the book. It was talking about those, those memories and the things that, that kind of, it, it stirred up.

[00:41:45] So, like those could be the. The good times that, that you can think back on. And you know, especially for folks who might be struggling with the, the bad times and they’re, they’re just kind of dwelling on those sometimes it’s good to, you know, sprinkle in some of the good the good times [00:42:00] that we had in, in, with the, the mix of, of everything else that might have going on in your head.

[00:42:04] So, you know, grab a copy of that book and, and hopefully it triggers some of those, those good memories for you, you know. So well, Johnny, thank you so much for, for coming on the show, sharing your, your, your thoughts and, you know, kind of experiences with us. It, it, I definitely appreciate it and and like I said, we’ll have all those links in the show notes and, and you know, thanks again.

[00:42:26] Johnnie Gilpen: Oh, I appreciate you having me on. It was enjoyable. Like I said, if there’s anything I can do or, you know, reach out to us and you know, for those who are listening, if anybody is struggling out there you know, always reach out to 9, 8, 8, you know, that’s the, you know, reach out out there to that, you know, there’s always somebody on the other end to listen to that. you know, I’ll be honest. I’ve reached out to it. I had to use it. you know, my wife wound up in intensive care on a ventilator a while back, and I had to walk away and [00:43:00] let my my coworkers do what they do and I couldn’t, you know, I’m an emergency medicine guy, so, so yeah. So I had, I’m not

[00:43:07] gonna tell you, I reached out and

[00:43:09] used it so when

[00:43:10] you didn’t ’cause,

[00:43:11] it’s there.

[00:43:13] be afraid to

[00:43:13] Scott DeLuzio: It is there. Yeah. Absolutely. It’s, it’s there and it, it’s there for a reason. There, there are people sitting there waiting for, for those phone calls to come in and, and to be able to help you. So, you know, don’t. Don’t waste the resource. If, if there’s something that you, you need to use it for, absolutely.

[00:43:32] Reach out. And I, I put the, the link and the phone number and all that and all the, all the show notes. Just as a reminder to folks, hopefully it, it, it sticks in people’s heads that that is a resource out there. So, absolutely check it out. And Johnny thank you again for coming on the show. Really appreciate it.

[00:43:48] Johnnie Gilpen: Appreciate it.

[00:43:59] ​