Episode 569 Lyubim Kogan Paragliding Recovery for Wounded Warriors Transcript

This transcript is from episode 569 with guest Lyubim Kogan.

[00:00:00] Scott DeLuzio: Some wounds don’t show up physically. They’re not gonna show up on an x-ray or an MRI or anything like that. You can be home doing your job, showing up for your family, and still feel like part of you is stuck in the past. A lot of veterans know what it’s like to carry this pain around with them day to day and to feel disconnected and wonder whether life will ever feel the same again.

[00:00:22] This conversation in this episode brings, uh, brings up some sort of hope. As our guest today, Lyubim Kogan shares his path from surviving nine 11 to building wings for heroes. Uh, you’re gonna hear how this sense of purpose can be rebuilt, how movement can wake something back up inside of you, and how healing can start with one person refusing to look away.

[00:00:46] There’s no sugarcoating in this episode Here we, we took a real look at grief at service trauma community, and the types of action that, uh, helps wounded veterans feel strong again. [00:01:00] Before we get into this episode, I wanna take a moment to raise awareness for something deeply important to our community.

[00:01:04] The Global War on Terrorism Memorial Foundation. This organization is working to build a permanent national memorial in Washington DC to honor the service members, families, and civilians who are impacted by the global war on terrorism. This memorial will be both a tribute to those who’ve served and a way to ensure that their sacrifices are recognized and remembered for generations to come.

[00:01:25] If you’d like to learn more or find out how you can support their mission, visit GWOT memorial foundation.org. Now, let’s get into today’s episode.

[00:01:32]

[00:01:45] Scott DeLuzio: Hey, Lyubim welcome to the show. Really glad to have you here.

[00:01:49] Lyubim Kogan: Thank you for having me, Scott. I actually was waiting for

[00:01:51] this one a long time.

[00:01:53] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it’s been a little while since, since, we first got in touch and, you know, finally here’s, here’s the day. We can, we can [00:02:00] actually uh, you know, sit down and, and have a conversation But uh, before we kind of jump conversation, for the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with who you are, could you tell us a little bit about yourself and, and your background and, and things like that just to give the listeners an idea of uh, who we’re talking about here.

[00:02:16] Lyubim Kogan: So right now I run a humanitarian mission that I started a little more than two years ago. It’s called Wings for Heroes. And the original idea was to take um, combat veterans who had amputations. Bring ’em to a peaceful place. And the peaceful place that I found is a beach in Turkey.

[00:02:40] We have the beach. We have the mountains. the culture is really awesome. You know, people are really great and I thought, you know, they, they’d spend some time in quiet because, you know, in some parts of the world there is no peace and quiet right now, like in Ukraine. And um, I thought that, you know, my [00:03:00] passion, my sport is paragliding is for those who don’t know, it’s, we go out with this little plastic bag over our head and we have little strings, right?

[00:03:09] And there is no fuselage and there is no engine. And when I found went flying the first time, it really scared me. And like to the point where I was saying goodbye to my dad and my brother in the air, I’ll never see you again. And uh, I thought that what if two, you know, like people, the psychologist say that you really need that positive. Traumatic experience that is like immediate and really intense sometimes to come back to life. And I thought, what if we can do this with amputees? Because there is a moment when you go off the cliff no matter what you’re thinking, like your subconscious or your primordial brain takes over and you have no other problems, but you want to live.

[00:03:51] And I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. And it doesn’t matter that if there is a loss of a limb or something that it, it just drives, it [00:04:00] takes over. And you know, I thought that would be the whole mission. You know, just bring them, organize, get away, bring ’em to the beach and let’s go flying, which was really awesome, you know, to, to do that.

[00:04:11] That was really, really great. But then I found out that.

[00:04:15] they have other needs and we added, you know, intense physical therapy and well basically this is what the mission is doing right now. So I’m answering the question about the end. Um, but. To answer the question that you asked me um, I cannot longer. I was in the United States and end of November, beginning of December, and I got your book, which is so awesome and it’s so inspiring. And I just, you know, I just, I read this and I thought like, wow, this is really, this is really something special. And um, I was in was, I when they, I, okay, perfect, perfect getaway. I immigrated to the [00:05:00] United States in 1992. I was 17. And um, you know, I got a status. I got an asylum. I came as a refugee, but just a little bit to back up, you know, I was, I was growing up when I was five, the Afghanistan war started and it was, I was born and I was, I grew up in the former Soviet Union.

[00:05:20] So Afghanistan war started and it lasted until I was 16. So like my whole first part of the uh, of my conscious life, it’s on the And I don’t know how old the child needs to be to learn the draft is mandatory that they take you and they send you. But like consciously, I remember these experiences throughout my life, which were, you know, I think they were really, like in the states, we would classify them as like really traumatic experiences that children don’t need to go through by knowing, being exposed.

[00:05:53] And, and then as I grew up, you know, I was wondering like why things like this happen. And anyways, in, in, in [00:06:00] 92 I got to move to the United States. And the United States was really generous to me. Like I, I, I think I got super lucky because I, I wanted, well one day I’m 17 years old, so it’s just that the, the way we moved, I’m 17 years old.

[00:06:16] My dad comes home and he says. Um, we are moving States today. Tonight, just pack up your things and you know, we’re not coming back. And it’s like, okay, I didn’t need hours at that time because I, all I wanted to do, I wanted to ski. So I pack up my ski suit, my boots, my helmet, and I was ready to go. and when I came to the States, I asked my uncle to ride to different ski schools and say, look, I want to go and see if I can ski here. And uh, the National Sports Academy at Lake Placid invited me. It was Halloween of 92. We drove from Lake, New Jersey, north Jersey to upstate New York. It was 300 miles. [00:07:00] It was like a day trip.

[00:07:01] And for me, like seeing America for the first time was just like, wow. I got to see. We drove the throughway. 87 going all the way north. So you go through Albany, you go through Catskills, then you get to the Adirondacks Park. It’s like, it’s like, wow. Really beautiful nature. And um, I got lucky. They gave I went to school and my, my, my, my, classmates last name was on beer cans. So I’m in this super, you know, prestigious, expensive boarding school. And that was my first experience. And you know, I got a scholarship so I can live there, I can learn English. They feed me. They gave me skis and said, okay, when you know you have free time, you can go ski, jump as much as you want to. So, you know, that was super, super great.

[00:07:47] And you know, like, like this, America was great to me. Then I got into NYU. I went to school in New York and I always wanted to work in the World Trade Center. I know it’s one of the things that you wanted to talk about, but like those [00:08:00] buildings to me were magic. It’s um, it was a representation most successful experiment in the history of humankind, like in just this, these two towers.

[00:08:13] And

[00:08:15] by being a finance and accounting student in New York City, like I always wanted, like to me, I really wanted to work in the World Trade Center and, and I was fortunate enough to get that opportunity,

[00:08:29] so.

[00:08:31] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that, that, that’s great. I mean, hearing the, the story of someone like yourself and your family coming, coming over and. Finding successes here in, in the United States and um, you know, the area of the, the country that you’re upstate New York. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve been there, you know, a few times myself, and it, it’s really beautiful, uh, you know, area of the, of the um, you know, I, I can just imagine someone seeing for the first time, just the, you know, eyes wide open as [00:09:00] you’re looking out the, the car window maybe of, you know, as you’re driving by. And it’s, it’s just like really, you know, an amazing sight to see. And, you know, there’s so much more throughout the whole country that’s just a small piece of the country.

[00:09:11] But, you know, it’s such a great, great place. And so I can only imagine someone coming in for the very first time seeing it um, you know, with their own two eyes. But then, um, getting, getting your, your dream being able to work in the, the, uh, world Trade Center, um, you know, that, that’s pretty amazing as um. On nine about the World Trade Center um, where were, where were you as uh, you know, being in New York and, and all of that, because, uh, I know, that, that’s kind of part of your story

[00:09:37] Lyubim Kogan: I think it’s a, you know, it’s a, that day became a major, you know, major, like, I would say it’s a cornerstone, one of the cornerstones. Um, I got to think a lot about it and I am 100% certain that there was some kind of divine intervention on that [00:10:00] day because if you listen to the stories of all the survivors, they start like this, but something happened and we were late.

[00:10:09] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:10:09] Lyubim Kogan: Like it’s an amazing, it’s amazing to hear how many people were late. And um, I had a we studied together for the CPA exam, the certified public accountant exam. And our classes were on the weekends because, you know, we both had. School and then we had to work so we could only do it on the weekends, and I think it was like eight or nine months long.

[00:10:32] So we spent a lot of weekends studying for that exam, like the whole year before graduating. And we, we became really close friends. And even though he worked in the World Financial Center, which is from the World Trade Center, there was uh, like a tunnel, a to the west side where the water was.

[00:10:52] And the World Financial Center was just right across from West Side Highway. And um, we worked right and we could [00:11:00] meet for more than a year. and on September 10th, we finally met, but his boss kept him late. We started late. We, you know, stayed up late. And then in the morning he didn’t even get up to go for work. And I, yeah, I get up for, to go to work because I had a lot of things to do. And I remember like. I remember seeing my boss, you know, like I see my boss going and my entire life, I always, you know, my dad raised me. He said, uh, um, kings. So he had this, you know, like kids have some little cycle from, from their parents.

[00:11:37] Like my, my dad gave me this urgency of being on time all the time. And there was no other issue. No, no other way. And I, I would run after the bus and, you know, in New Jersey, like, if I don’t catch at this stop, I will catch it at the next stop. And you know, it was like almost like a joke, you know, for me running and always chasing that bus. And that day, Scott, the fir, first time ever, I didn’t run. [00:12:00] I mean like that impulse, like everything wants to run, but your body is not going anywhere. And I’m like, boom. And I remember like, wow, this is, wow. This is so weird. It is so weird that I’m not running. Like, I couldn’t understand like. I got stopped in my tracks, nothing was going on.

[00:12:16] I remember there was some kind of lady next to me, like I look at her, she looks at me and we look at that bus and it’s like, really? There’s no way now. Now it’s gone. It’s gone. And it didn’t run for the bus. And in New York City, you can take the subway from any part of the city. You can be in the Bronx, you can be in Brooklyn, you can be in Queens, you can be anywhere in any borough, and actually ride and connect without going outside. And at that time we could ride under the World Trade Center and I would get off. I needed to take, I could actually go from New Jersey, you know, also under the World Trade Center and take the escalator to the elevator. And then, you know, eventually, like I could go from across the city and never [00:13:00] go outside and be up in the building above the clouds and not see what’s going on, you know, down below. But on that day, I needed the bagel in the coffee. You know, I gotta get a bagel and a coffee. And I, I got off on chambers, which is like, it’s the one stop before, but it’s like one uh, building, you block. It’s all, there’s no, there is no divisions. There is no park. It’s New York City.

[00:13:25] It’s one long building. And I’m walking up the stairs and I, like, you see people standing up, everybody’s looking up in the sky and somebody said, uh, it’s a bomb. said, oh, I saw an airplane. And somebody said something else in the crowds, you know, like, you don’t know what is going on. And it just, like, I looked up, I remember it was just really light, great smoke.

[00:13:52] And I thought it must have burned overnight. And it’s like, you know, like sometimes you don’t even finish this thought. And I get the, I [00:14:00] hear these sirens like, I mean, it was just massive. like, it was just like unreal amount of wailing. And I turn around and they see this, this like lights down, you know, they’re all piling towards the World Trade Center.

[00:14:18] It’s fire trucks, ambulances, and they are just, I mean, we’re standing just like one building. And at the rate that we’re going, like, that was really clear that it’s not something that’s like, it’s major.

[00:14:31] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:32] Lyubim Kogan: my phone, my cell phone is dead. We started late. We finished late. I didn’t charge my cell phone.

[00:14:39] I, I, um, I, I walk, um, I across the street I don’t know if you remember like, watching it on tv, like all the cell cell towers got jammed. Payphones got jammed. But there was one payphone that was working and there was like huge line of people. So I woke up to the payphone, I gave my World Trade [00:15:00] Center id, and I showed them my ID and I said, look, I gotta call home.

[00:15:03] And they’re like, call, so I call home answering machine and they say, I don’t know what, what happened? I’m not in the building and I’m not going inside. I’m just watching outside. And I hang up the phone and I go, there was a Starbucks. I walk in the Starbucks and I see the girl, she is just, she cannot stand.

[00:15:21] She’s crying. And I’m like, what’s going on? You know? And um, she w she couldn’t probably knew, I don’t know what, how she knew, but she was crying. And then suddenly, you know, the, the, the ground starts shaking. It’s like, and outside the window you see a crowd, you know, like it is, like, in the movie, people are running and screaming.

[00:15:44] They’re running north away from the top. So we were on the, on the north side. Like for, for somebody who is trying to imagine, I came from the north side. If you look at Manhattan, it’s like a pizza pie wide north and really narrow in the south. [00:16:00] The World Trade Center used to be in the Battery Park City at the very tip of the skinny slice of the pizza.

[00:16:07] And from that park there, you see the ferries that are going to Statue of Liberty and like they, you can go to New Jersey, Staten Island. But I think most Li listeners would re recognize it by the boats that are going to the Statue of Liberty. But we are at the, at that very tip. So it’s really, you know, it’s really compressed.

[00:16:29] All the traffic, all the cars, all the people. It’s super high density. And uh, the They, they, hit the buildings from the south side. So we were standing on the north side, we could see the fireball and we could see what was going on the other side. But nobody really saw what was happening.

[00:16:49] And I had a friend who’s mom was a guide, she was guiding people in the nineties. I don’t know if you remember in the nineties, they [00:17:00] tried blowing up the World Trade Center by driving

[00:17:02] trucks into the parking.

[00:17:04] Scott DeLuzio: Yep. Uh, yeah, I

[00:17:05] Lyubim Kogan: there was no more parking. you know, I was thinking like, my first thought was like, it was one, two.

[00:17:12] Well, if there is one, two, there is always a three. And what if it worked this time? What if they like plan something massive and the crowd runs, they scream. Then the strangest thing is that people stop and everybody turns around and they start walking back. Because if you look at the, if you look at the, yeah, on the video, so the plane flies in the second building, the fireball goes out, the fireball comes in, and then there is nothing, you know, there is no shaking.

[00:17:42] There is no, no, it just, after the impact, it is burning up in the really high floors and down below people. I mean, you don’t know for a little bit until, you know, I, I think I left right away, but. I remember a stood I watched when [00:18:00] people were, people started jumping out the windows, and then I was like, okay, you know, there’s nothing really to do here because like, what is there to do?

[00:18:15] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you’re, you’re not going into work at that point. You know,

[00:18:18] Lyubim Kogan: Yeah. You’re not going into the work and you’re not going to definitely, You’re not getting in the way of people who are running against, you know, because you always see, like these little, the, the, the firemen and the, and the, all the emergency services, they kept coming, you know, they kept coming, they kept coming.

[00:18:34] They were going, they were going all in. They didn’t stop going in. until, you know, it was collapsing. They were still going in. And one of the things that I remember is that, you know, like you and I, we’ve, the, the staircase in the World Trade Center was so narrow. Like you and I, we would have issues going like, you know, side to side.

[00:18:55] We would have to.

[00:18:56] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[00:18:57] Lyubim Kogan: So imagining all these guys going up with all the [00:19:00] gear, like there’s,

[00:19:01] Scott DeLuzio: Hmm.

[00:19:02] Lyubim Kogan: it’s one way street. And with people coming down, like what was going on in those staircases? We actually, we had guys who got out of our office, you know, we actually had our office, they got out, but I’m saying like, it was watching people who have to go in on the day, you know, when I was not going any anywhere near, like for me, because I went to school in New York, I know New York really well.

[00:19:28] I started walking up north and I was going to New York University is the, was the second largest property holder um, or real estate after the Catholic church. So NYU owned a lot of buildings. Stern School of business undergraduate, where I went, like, if you look at it, I think it’s 10 story, 10 story building.

[00:19:51] But none of the classes are above. They’re all down below. So I am, I’m going into the bunker, you know, I grew up during [00:20:00] the Afghanistan war. I’m gonna find the bunker. I’m going, they have vending machines, they have payphones and they have security guards and, and bathrooms and everything. And you can go three stories down.

[00:20:08] I mean, it says like, but by the time I walked there, you know, people were, all the business owners were opening windows, throwing out TVs, all the radios. You know, like people were lowering windows because everybody’s walking and you cannot call anyone. There is no Facebook, There is no WhatsApp, there is no cell phone, nothing.

[00:20:32] Just these few payphones that worked. And I don’t know if Blackberry is still around, but that Blackberry messengers was the only thing that was working on that day. I, I didn’t have Blackberry. None of us had blackberries. But um, you know, by the time I walked knew exactly what, what was going on.

[00:20:53] And, you know, the, all the, the, the attacks were finished. You know, all the planes were on the ground. They [00:21:00] the terror for that, that, day it stopped and I actually, you know, I watched, you know, the towers to come down. Come down. I was already in Washington Square Park, which is, I would say half an hour walk north from the World Trade Center side.

[00:21:17] Scott DeLuzio: Okay. Yeah.

[00:21:19] And I, I thank you very much for sharing some of this story um, because, uh, and, to ask not only because a very significant. Piece of your life. Oba obviously, because it, you know, anyone who was in Manhattan on that day or even anywhere near there, um, knows just how significant of, that was.

[00:21:39] And, and experiencing, experiencing that in, uh, in real life, not watching it on is just, has to be a very uh, impactful moment to, But, um, I also wanted to, ask you about that as someone who was, was there, because a lot of our listeners being military veterans, uh, especially over the last [00:22:00] 20 some years, um, they, a lot joined the military because of what happened on that day and hearing what happened from someone who was there.

[00:22:11] Um, you know, for me anyways, someone I, I served in Afghanistan, so I, I, I went there fighting in this war. Um, a lot of other people who have been guests listeners, they’ve, they’ve done the same thing, and I know when, oh, my brother as

[00:22:25] well. Yeah. Um, and, and you know, we all went because of what happened then.

[00:22:30] And then years later um, no matter how much people said, oh, we’ll, forget, we’ll never forget over time people start, their memory starts to fade a little bit. And, uh, especially when we withdrew from I know a lot of veterans, they, did not like the way we withdrew from Afghanistan.

[00:22:49] Not to get political or anything like that, but it, it kind of felt like what we went over there to do was, was lost. It was like we went over there for nothing. And I like to bring it back to why did we do it in the [00:23:00] first place and, and why were we over there? And, and nine 11 was, was obviously a huge piece of that.

[00:23:05] And, and, uh, this just reminds me of just. how important the, the service and the sacrifices are for everyone who, who participated in, in the military, you know, during, during this time period. And, um, And so I, I thank you very much that, um, that that experience that, that you you know, that’s definitely not a experience to have lived through, um, especially knowing that there were probably people that you, you worked with and that you knew and that you were friends with or um, you know, even just coworkers, you know, that, um, that you might have, have known who time you didn’t know whether or not they were in the building or if they were able to make it out safely or, or not.

[00:23:41] And um, you know, that’s, that’s just a, you scary experience to, for anybody to have to go through. But, um, I wanna, I wanna kind of go back to what you were in, in the beginning here uh, with the Wings for Heroes. And, uh, just kind of ask like, what, what made Decide to help out these, the amputees and [00:24:00] uh, and, and the, the combat veterans who um, going through your, your program here

[00:24:04] Lyubim Kogan: Mm-hmm. I think you just answered that, that before you asked the question. No, really it was, it was the answer and I think it’s um, up in situations that change the, the way we view life or like that filter that something, you know, that that perception, that something that, that makes me see, you know, it’s like two people are looking at the same thing, look seeing completely different things. So I would say this um, the Afghanistan war started, you know, the one that Soviet Union got involved in.

[00:24:48] Scott DeLuzio: Yes.

[00:24:49] Lyubim Kogan: 40 years later, we have five year olds that are growing up at a war that is started by the same [00:25:00] mentality, the same geographical center location. That war now is not in Afghanistan. It’s now in the middle of the, of Europe. And Europe is considered the freedoms door because, you know, after World War ii, you know that it stopped, you know, it’s stopped there. And um, this time, if when I was a kid, you know, you would have young men, you know, who would get drafted, 18, 20, whatever, mostly I 18 year olds. They get sent and then they come back with PTSD, missing limbs, some kind of injuries. There’s endless list of them, right? And there was absolutely no system, nothing vacuum complete.

[00:25:51] They were like coming into the, into the void. You know, it was over. And, um. [00:26:00] exactly the same, situation, like half a century from that day.

[00:26:04] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:05] Lyubim Kogan: And when something repeats like decade after decade after decade, in front of your eyes, like in front of my eyes, I left Ukraine first year when I was independent, 1992. I come back 24 years later, I went to the States. I really, you know, one of the things I was talking about, generosity, you know, when people are really generous to you like this, you want to become one of them, you want to be like them? I wanted to be like them. You said I was in upstate New York. I actually, I ski jumped and the more jumps you jump, the better you get.

[00:26:42] So we started traveling, you know, like Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, all of those states. And I stayed in homes. People who just like. Other skiers parents, they took me in, they fed me. I lived in their home like I was, you know, just going from [00:27:00] family to family. So like to me, I, I really, I had this clean cut from being an immigrant. I left my past and I came into the United States and I was like, wow, this is so cool. You know, I got kicked out of every grade in school, every single one except the eighth. And then I go to the United States and I was just like, wow, this is awesome.

[00:27:20] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:27:20] Lyubim Kogan: First, after one, one full year, you know, I get the letter that I’m a national Honors society. I’m trying to say like how good the system was for me. I was the same. I didn’t do anything. Nothing changed. But really it’s like, you know, if like, if I was a seed in the soil, like the soil that was there before, I could not grow in it. But then I got replanted on the other side of the ocean. You know, somebody put some love, some water, boom, and I flourished.

[00:27:48] And then. By being in New York, I’m super competitive. I wanted to really get higher in finance and you know, just like always trying all these things. And September 11th [00:28:00] moved me out of the city. You know, I had to go, I went all over. I went to California, Colorado, then Texas, and then two years later, three years later, I get rehired by American Express.

[00:28:13] And for three years, you know, I was going to different places trying to find my home. And uh, all that was seeing just of the United States. You know, Scott, I think I’m one of the, I’m super lucky that I’ve driven across and I know, like I know the states so well. Like, I just, I just, I just, I think I just got super lucky with the way everything played out.

[00:28:36] So when September 11th happened, you know, I was ready to go too. I was close and I, um, I think. just, I I always say I, wasn’t brave enough to go because this is the best, you know, you don’t really need to explain anything but the emotional, the emotional impact of what was happening, you know, it was like, like I remember the next morning we went to the [00:29:00] West Side Highway, and for those who do not know New York, again, I’m looking like we are standing by the Hudson River and looking down south and we’re seeing the, the towers burn.

[00:29:13] Like the only smoke is going at the end of the pizza. At the, at, at, at the very southern tip is just this black smoke going across towards where the Statue of Liberty is. And I am thinking, like, first time in my life I thought like, you know, we escaped former Soviet Union because it was not safe there.

[00:29:32] You know, you just, it just, was total chaos when it fell apart. Then you’re standing like, I always thought the United States is safe. You know, like for me it was, it was like a, it was a fortress. You cannot go to the United States like and do that. You know? It was, and then like the next day I am thinking like I you know, everybody’s like, in my mind it was like, wow, like the government really, somebody really [00:30:00] messed up to have that happen.

[00:30:02] Like somebody really, really, and, and then you feel really violated, you know, like you feel really violated. Like I had somebody break into my house when they lived in Brooklyn, but this was just like a really different thing. So for you watching that on tv, I will tell you why I didn’t join, you know, because I had to go to different places and I had to find what I’m going to do.

[00:30:25] And it was just like these years of trying and starting the business and finding more place where I’m going to be, and actually, um. because our office was destroyed during terrorist attack, I classified as a displaced person and the American Red Cross sent me a check for $15,000

[00:30:49] Scott DeLuzio: Oh,

[00:30:49] Lyubim Kogan: just get back on my feet.

[00:30:52] And then um, you know, fast forward running a humanitarian mission. And like the soul of this [00:31:00] mission, the inspiration is Henry Dunant is the guy who started the Red Cross. He was just one guy who was traveling in 1859. He was traveling for business to Italy. He was Swiss banker. He’s, I think he was like in his late twenties, 28 maybe.

[00:31:17] And he got to a place called Sina on when they had the battle where it was 150,000 Arian soldiers against 130,000. Italy, I think they were sardinians or whatever. I called them the Imperial Army because they were French and Italians, and he witnessed the whole battle. And he said when they were done, there were more than 40,000 dead and wounded in that field and nobody was helping.

[00:31:50] Scott DeLuzio: Oh wow.

[00:31:51] Lyubim Kogan: He said not one person was helping. So Henry Dunant organized all the villagers at that time. You know, they were all women because men were [00:32:00] fighting the war. And they started pull, pulling people out of that field. And they said that there’s some churches had them more than 500 people. And he, you know, he, he finishes this thing, he goes back to Geneva and he wrote a book that, it’s called The Memory of Sino.

[00:32:19] And that book was so widely received that um, he was able to start year after it came out, they started the Red Cross. The following year, they, they signed the first Geneva Convention. And again, just briefly, Geneva Convention are important because they are the rules that we, or, you know, people who are countries, the belligerent countries, countries that are fighting through means of force, what you do with, uh, prisoners of war and what you do with wounded uh, soldiers.

[00:32:54] And before that, there was like that existed. So, you know, um, and the first time, I think like [00:33:00] signed up. So now this all modified and includes more and more and more. But it was done by one guy. You know, if he looked away, if he didn’t write that book, if he didn’t start the Red Cross, like I think humanity in this world would lose out a lot.

[00:33:17] And like, um. I know everybody. So first of all, I get help here. And then uh, it was last year I really, a chance to go around the world and I wanted to see how different countries keep promises to people who defended them at war. And one of my stops was the Red Cross Museum in Geneva.

[00:33:40] Man, it like blew me away. You know, you like, you walk into this place and when Red Cross goes to Red Cross is the only organization that is allowed to go in any conflict zone, you know, because they’re neutral. They’re um, foundation is being neutral. So allowed pretty much anywhere. And they’re the only [00:34:00] ones.

[00:34:00] So when they go in, they take these little cards, they’re like just little tiny cards. And they like, when they find the soldier, they just record name tag numbers, and then they file these cards. And then somebody writes a letter to the family. They mail that card. So

[00:34:21] I think one of the most difficult things

[00:34:25] I, am I losing you?

[00:34:26] Can you hear

[00:34:26] Scott DeLuzio: No, no, no. This is, this is actually amazing. I’m, I’m just sitting back taking it all in because it,

[00:34:32] Lyubim Kogan: okay? Because you, you, you

[00:34:33] Scott DeLuzio: great inspir. yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you’re good. Yeah.

[00:34:37] Lyubim Kogan: um, so

[00:34:39] they, record the names on these little cards and they file these cards. And basically when they come back from the battlefield, somebody writes letters to all the family members. I think the most difficult thing is having like a prisoner of war P-O-W-M-I-A in [00:35:00] family because those, those families, they can never have closure. Right?

[00:35:05] it’s never. You’ve gone through all the stages, right? You have to, but the first thing is, you know that that person is not coming back. And that’s like, it’s 100% certain. You don’t, people who are waiting, they’re waiting forever.

[00:35:23] Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah.

[00:35:24] Lyubim Kogan: They can never get to, there cannot be acceptance or grief or anything, denial.

[00:35:29] It’s a, it doesn’t exist. So you walk into this, you walk into this basement, Scott, it’s like front floor to ceiling, endless cabinets of these little cards.

[00:35:44] Scott DeLuzio: Oh wow.

[00:35:44] Lyubim Kogan: There’s more than 6 million names on those little cards. And I’m thinking like, imagine how many families had closures just from one, from that room.

[00:35:57] They get a letter and they saying, I’m [00:36:00] sorry, your son, your daughter, whoever, you know you, they’re gone.

[00:36:04] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:05] Lyubim Kogan: And people know. I’m saying just by one bad thing. And it’s like when I get, and I know you running a foundation in memory of your brother and you know, they’re never easy. And like I, when I hit the wall, man, I think about Henry Doon and I’m thinking like, imagine if that guy stopped

[00:36:29] and then they get your book and they say, imagine if this guy didn’t write the book.

[00:36:33] And it’s like, like these little things help us to get through. What I’m trying to say here is that I know that everyone who’s listening, like you have difficult things and issues in life. I think the only way to get through it is actually just by going through it and saying, look, I’m just going to, I’m gonna go and like, I’m gonna get up out of bed, you know, I’m going to do my best.

[00:36:59] And if [00:37:00] getting out of bed is all I can do, man, that’s all I can do.

[00:37:03] Scott DeLuzio: Right.

[00:37:05] Yeah. And so I uh, a second ago you asked if, if, uh, you know, following everything and, and honestly, I was, I was just taking it all in because the, the way you were telling the story and, and telling how you uh, uh, you know, traveled to the, the museum and all the, all the things, all your inspiration, it, to me it was just that, that in itself was very inspiring to hear how you, you kind of, uh, found your way in, into all of this. And, you know, in the beginning of what you were saying, it, it almost sounded like you were um, apologetic for not military. And I don’t know if that was your intention or not, but that’s almost what it sounded like. And um, you know, as I’m, as I’m, as I’m

[00:37:45] Lyubim Kogan: I make myself look as bad as I can because you guys did made the tough choice and I didn’t, and there is no comparison. I just wanted to be, I think it was self-deprecating

[00:37:55] on purpose

[00:37:56] Scott DeLuzio: Well, you know, I, I wanna say kind of, I wanna say the [00:38:00] opposite though, of what you were saying about yourself. So this is, this is coming from someone who did serve, is that there are, there are people who are needed that aren’t necessarily on the ground in, in combat and in fighting. And uh, there was a statistic that I read somewhere, I forget the exact numbers, but it was somewhere like for every one soldier who was on the ground during the Iraq war, there were.

[00:38:29] Eight soldiers who were not on the ground. They were either back in the United States or they were someplace else doing logistics or, you know, finance or supplies or, or doing all the other things that needed to be done in order for those people to be able to do that job. Now, granted, those people were in the military as well, but there are a lot of people who are not in the military that the military rely on as well to be able to do their job.

[00:38:54] You know, the, the people who make the, food that they package it all up and, and ship it [00:39:00] to the military for them to be able to do, or, or the people who make the, the, the weapons and the bullets and the, you know, all the things that, that the military need. All of those people are, are essential. If, if we don’t have those people, then, then where do those, where do those things come from? Right. And, and more so, um, you know, there’s also the stuff that happens the fact. So when people come back from combat and they’re dealing with whether it’s PTSD or they lost a limb or some other injury or something that they’re, they’re dealing with, they are in need of some sort of care. And, and as you were saying, you, you kind of went around to see how other countries take care of their, their people who defend them. And in a lot of countries, I’ve heard from, from other people, from, from all over the world that they don’t take care of their, their people very well. Um, you know, in, in certain parts of the world. And we’re very fortunate now that, that we do have. People here who actually care about what happens to [00:40:00] those people who go off and, and serve, whether it’s from, you know, the Veterans Affairs, you know, uh, the de Department of Veterans Affairs, or it’s from some other nonprofit organization that is filling a gap where the VA isn’t able to uh, uh, accommodate the service members have gone through and the veterans have gone through. And so people like yourself, I feel like are, are equally as necessary because there are people coming back who need some sort of support, some sort of um, you know, like, like you were you know, paragliding and, and that, that off that, that cliff and,

[00:40:37] Lyubim Kogan: But here I wanted.

[00:40:38] Scott DeLuzio: and

[00:40:38] Lyubim Kogan: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:39] Scott DeLuzio: oh, go ahead.

[00:40:39] Go

[00:40:39] ahead.

[00:40:40] Lyubim Kogan: I wanted, I wanted.

[00:40:41] to ask you, and I wanted to ask you in a sense, like, I’m wondering, you were asking me a question. I had this question for you. You know, you, you, you came back from Afghanistan when you found out that your brother was killed. And you’re saying you went through a period of time where you were so [00:41:00] depressed and um, you didn’t have energy to So like, my, my question is, how can I explain to other podcast hosts to a lot of civilians who are asking me these questions? How can I explain to them that one day everything is fine? Like in your case then you get the news and nothing is fine. Like, how do you And I read it in the book, in the book, you know, there is not much room, I understand to say it, but I saw that you said like it was difficult for you to even function.

[00:41:37] So. How could the perfectly functioning person can go to a dysfunctional person by hearing a news in one? Is that pretty much how it happens in real

[00:41:47] life and in your

[00:41:49] Scott DeLuzio: mean, yeah, I mean, pretty much in my life, you know, just for, for the listeners who maybe aren’t familiar with, with exactly what happened um, you know, I found out my brother was killed. I was out mission in Afghanistan [00:42:00] and uh, found out that he, that he was killed also Afghanistan. And, uh, probably 15 or 20 exactly the time period, but, uh, we got into a firefight ourselves.

[00:42:10] So middle of grieving. I’m, I’m sad, I’m crying. I’m, I’m, I’m just, I’m a mess, you know, like anyone would be, right. This is just a natural human expression of emotion. And I’m in that, that position. And then now all of a sudden I have a job to do. I have soldiers I need to lead. I have uh, you know, people that I need to be in charge of care of.

[00:42:30] I have, I, and I’m, I’m very angry. I’m not, I’m not able to grieve anymore. I have to put all that stuff away, and I’m like, I wanted to just kill everybody because I was just so angry at. Everything that was going on. And then I have to kind of snap out of all of that and, and focus on the job, focus on the mission.

[00:42:51] And, so I, I took all of that, that, normal natural human emotion, that sadness and the grief and the, and all of [00:43:00] that. And I, I shoved it down and I stuffed it away, and I, I said, you know what? Forget about that for now. I need to go focus on my job. And when I did that, I don’t think I, I really understood how to pick up that grief again afterwards, but I, I held onto the anger and I held onto all those more dysfunctional things, like you were saying, the more dysfunctional uh, stuff that, that made me able to function very well when I got back home.

[00:43:29] And I, when I got home, I, I was drinking too much and I was, I was doing all the things that you’re, you’re not supposed to be doing. You, you know, I, I did it all wrong and. I, in the back of my head, I said, you know, I’m, I’m this strong soldier guy. I’m, I’m able to handle just about anything. I can take care of this.

[00:43:49] I don’t need to go talk to somebody to get help or, or anything like that. And so I just kept dealing with it on my own. It just happened to be that I wasn’t dealing with it [00:44:00] very well. I was dealing with it in a very, uh, uh, hurtful way. I, I was people around me. I, I was just, I was just not doing a, a good job.

[00:44:08] And over time I, I kind of just got into bad habits and bad routines, and it just got worse and worse and worse. And I wasn’t getting any happier. I wasn’t getting any better. I was, I was, just getting more and more sad and more upset and more angry. And it, it just all, all of a sudden at, at one point it kind of blew up and.

[00:44:30] That’s when I, I said, you know what, now I, I’ve let it go too far and now I need to get

[00:44:36] Lyubim Kogan: Mm-hmm.

[00:44:36] Scott DeLuzio: And then it was like a slow climb back outta that hole. It was like everything blew up and I’m at the bottom of this hole of this where this bomb went off basically. And I’m trying to climb my, my way back up and it’s a real slow climb ’cause the ground’s given out under underneath me.

[00:44:50] And, and it’s just not easy, you know? Whereas if I, if I did something earlier when I was still standing on solid ground before the bomb blew up, it would’ve been a lot easier. [00:45:00] And, and so I think a lot of it is, it wasn’t just the fact that I lost my brother. ’cause people lose family members close people to them all the time, and they’re able to get back and function, uh, you know, eventually.

[00:45:12] But I just, I just let that continue, that anger continue to eat me inside and, and all the, the bad things that, that I had going on, it just continued to beat myself up in, in my head. And I, I, never did anything to help myself either. And. It just made, it made everything so much worse uh, that way. And so it, I, I think of, you know, that’s a long way to kind of explain that.

[00:45:37] Part of it is really just my reaction to what had happened, and I didn’t react in a very good way. I, I, I reacted in a very poor way. and, uh, self-destructive way and I was, I was not doing myself any favors when I, um, when I came back home and, and didn’t take care of myself or the things that I needed to [00:46:00] take care of.

[00:46:01] Um, I, I put a lot of.

[00:46:02] my attention other people in, in taking care of uh, you know, my family and, and my, you know, my my you know, o other people. I, I was, I was focusing my attention on, on outward, on other people

[00:46:13] Lyubim Kogan: Does it work?

[00:46:15] Scott DeLuzio: it, you know, in,

[00:46:16] Lyubim Kogan: helps, right?

[00:46:17] Scott DeLuzio: I, I, I thought it helped.

[00:46:18] I thought it was helping, but I think what I was doing was I was ignoring my own issues.

[00:46:25] But focusing on everybody else and, and thinking that I’m, I’m helping. And I probably was, I was probably helping those people to some extent, but at the same time, I was ignoring myself. And they, they say, you, you can’t pour from an empty, an empty glass, you know? So if you have a, a glass and it’s empty, and my, my glass was empty.

[00:46:43] It was, it was as dry as it can be pretty much. And I, I had nothing left to pour to anybody else. I had poured it all out to everybody already, and I had nothing for me. and I, I needed to focus on myself and, and the, uh, the issues that I was going through. So, you know, that’s [00:47:00] kind again, kind of a long way saying like, part of my issue was I just didn’t.

[00:47:06] Take the time and understand that I needed to take the time to take care of myself. Um, you know, same idea when, when you’re on an and the, the flight attendant tells you that you, you have to put your mask on first if the, those masks fall down and then you can help people next to you. Um, it’s, it’s not that, like if I had my children to me, not that I wouldn’t want to help them, it’s just if I don’t put

[00:47:27] Lyubim Kogan: how it works. Exactly.

[00:47:29] Scott DeLuzio: I’m gonna pass out and then I

[00:47:31] won’t be able

[00:47:31] Lyubim Kogan: exactly you can help anybody. Mm-hmm.

[00:47:33] Scott DeLuzio: So,

[00:47:34] that, that, that was kind of what happened there is I was focusing on putting my, you know, in, in this example, I was uh, focused on putting my kids’ masks on and never put mine on. And that’s, that’s the damage that I did to myself.

[00:47:47] Lyubim Kogan: For how long?

[00:47:49] Scott DeLuzio: um, this was

[00:47:51] Probably close to a year or so um, that, uh, may, maybe not quite a but it, it it was long enough it, it, it [00:48:00] should have been something I did way sooner, uh, much, much sooner Um, I, I just, I just didn’t, it was just, me being stubborn. Maybe it was, was just, you know, any number of reasons you, you can, you can think of, but it was, it was

[00:48:11] Lyubim Kogan: you know, Scott, I think, I think, I think in grief, it’s all on your own clock. You know what you did, you did what you needed to go through internal processes to get there, and everybody is different. Nobody can give you or anybody a schedule on the thing, you know? That’s why it’s so, so tough. But I wanted to ask you, like, once you got to the point where you, thought, I want to get better and I wanna get help, are those the resources available to veterans in the United States?

[00:48:39] Or like, say. You’re a veteran and you’re saying, look, I really need help. You go out, like, where did you go? Like if somebody’s listening and saying, I wanna start like practically, is there a phone number to call website?

[00:48:50] Where did you start?

[00:48:52] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, so I, I, the first place I went to was, was a place called the Vet Center, and they are uh, a place for, [00:49:00] for military and, and, and people connected to the military to be able to get the help and the, the resources. Um, the VA is another resource that, used. I, I just, I, I happen to go to the

[00:49:09] Lyubim Kogan: I’m sorry, that the vet centers, from what I understand, that are one of the most underutilized services that are

[00:49:15] available to veterans, like

[00:49:17] Scott DeLuzio: I I, I believe that, um, I don’t know the exact statistics on, on of that, but it’s, it’s not as well known as it should be. Uh, as far as, uh, the really should be more well known and people should use it. All the time. Um, you know, there’s a, there’s a lot of criteria that, people need to meet in order to be able to, uh, uh, be able to use their services. for me, I happen to meet multiple criteria lost uh, uh, you know, a sibling. So anyone, even in the military, if you’re uh, a fam, one of your family members had, had, uh, passed away in military service, you use their services. Um, if you deployed in in the combat I, I believe you can use their services if you had other, and they, they have a whole bunch of things.

[00:49:55] If you, if you meet all these things, you can use their services and, and there’s a lot of things. So a [00:50:00] lot of people are eligible to use their services. It’s, it’s very, very open to uh, a lot of people. Um, so it was just really at, at the time, you know, this was, this was back uh, you know, before. Internet was still around. There were, there were things that, that, people used on the internet, but it wasn’t as common. So, um, So, I picked up the phone and I made a phone call and made an and um, you know, it was, it was just a a, uh, something I, I needed to do and I probably needed to do earlier.

[00:50:28] Um, but it, it, like you said, it was on my time and, and when I, I felt it was, it was necessary and that’s, that’s when I

[00:50:35] did

[00:50:35] Lyubim Kogan: You were ready? Mm-hmm.

[00:50:37] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. and I, I definitely was ready? and I, I was ready for, I probably needed it for a long time. I just didn’t know I

[00:50:43] needed it, uh, you know, at that point, you know, so, um, so it, it’s, it was, it was difficult.

[00:50:47] But yeah, so many resources available. Um, and, and part of the reason why I do this is to. Highlight some of the resources that are available that people might not know about. Um, you know, the, the VA is [00:51:00] one everyone knows about. The vet center is, is another big one that’s out there.

[00:51:04] But there’s a lot of nonprofits and other resources out there too that, that offer services to veterans free of charge. They, they’ll, whether it’s counseling, whether it’s, you know, other kinds of therapy that, that are not traditional therapy, like sitting with a, a therapist, but it might be, you know, people who take, take people to go surfing or to go horseback riding or to all of, all those different types of things. And, you know, if you don’t know that it’s available, you might not even think that that’s even an option. And, and so that’s what I like to do. And, and that’s part of the reason why I wanted to have you on the show too. I mean, we, we kind of went on with your story because I, I sort of got fascinated with your story and, and, and, how you, you got into, um, you know, what you’re doing now, you know, wings for Heroes, I, I think is another one of those resources that exist that um, you know, maybe certain people who want to use that might, might feel like [00:52:00] that might be something to help them through whatever they’re going through. Um, if they don’t know that it exists, may not even know to look for it. And so this is something that I, I feel very, um, uh, called to do is spread the word about organizations like yours and, and countless other organizations that are out there for people to, to hear about it. Because maybe the listener who’s listening right now, maybe, maybe they’re not the one who is going to reach out to you and, and come, you know, use the services that you, you offer and, and the, the type of things that are in your mission, but maybe they know somebody who would.

[00:52:37] And they can refer them to, Hey, you know, I heard, heard about this Wings for Heroes uh, organization, and, uh, maybe you wanna check And then they check it out and then they the, the help, you know, through, through the organization that way. Um, and same thing with all the other organizations i, I talk with on, on this show. Um, you know, i, I I want to awareness for all of these great things that people are doing. Um, because, like I was saying before, [00:53:00] there are many other roles that need to be filled in order to have people who went to combat, who did the fighting, who did all the, that, that type of work to be able to come back and function in a, in a normal way.

[00:53:14] And, and so this type of work that, that you’re doing and that, you know, lots of other people are doing in different ways, maybe um, to me it’s just, just super because with, without it um, a lot of times the, the thinking that they’re all

[00:53:29] Lyubim Kogan: Yeah. And That that’s one, exactly. That’s one of the things I saw. I saw a huge gap.

[00:53:34] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:53:34] Lyubim Kogan: I think you are a perfect example in terms of like, you know, you used the services, right?

[00:53:41] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:53:41] Lyubim Kogan: you know you needed help before, but there was like a vacuum. There was no. There is no way to find out about things, and I think it’s super, what you are doing is super

[00:53:53] important.

[00:53:55] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[00:53:55] Lyubim Kogan: There are a lot of, there are a lot of people who qualify for benefits who can get all the help, but they just

[00:53:59] [00:54:00] don’t know how and where to ask.

[00:54:02] Scott DeLuzio: yeah. And, and some people also feel that they, uh, if they do get the benefits away from somebody else, which isn’t true um, you know that there are available for, for everyone who needs it. Um, they’re, they’re called earned benefits for a reason, like, like you, you’ve earned

[00:54:17] Lyubim Kogan: earned it. Yeah.

[00:54:18] Scott DeLuzio: You know, it’s, it’s unfortunate how some, some people do earn them, you know, someone, especially someone who’s lost a limb or their eyesight or, you know, various things that, you know, it’s very unfortunate, but there are resources and support available and, and there’s financial, you know, type, type benefits as well that, that allow them to, um, to for, for the, the things that they, they had to endure.

[00:54:43] And so, you know, it’s, it’s not making them whole again, necessarily, but it’s, it’s helping in, in a way, you know? Um, and so, you know, I, I know you, take out, you know, you take veterans out um, and, and that you do these, these trips and, and you do all the, this, [00:55:00] bring them to, like you said uh, you know, at the

[00:55:02] Lyubim Kogan: Can we have a few minutes? Can I summarize that part

[00:55:05] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:55:06] Sure.

[00:55:06] Lyubim Kogan: so, so basically, you know what we talked about, like the idea was just to take them as, as a recreational thing. So, beginning of this season uh, first we flew our first guy, uh, on June 18th, 2024. He was 20 years old for 10 days when the war started in Ukraine.

[00:55:27] And he volunteered, you know, he flew drones and kept writing letters that he wants to be in assault brigade. Then on the day that he he lost his leg, he said his commander went down and he was going, he was the closest guy to the commander. And he said he was like super, he was a few meters away and he gets shot in the leg.

[00:55:48] And then he um, well on my end when I got idea, I um, I had an employee whose son later became a governor, [00:56:00]

[00:56:00] Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

[00:56:01] Lyubim Kogan: and I called the governor and I said, look, I need a hero who had an amputations because I wanna bring him to Turkey. We’re going to chill, relax for one week, just, and at the end we’re gonna go paragliding.

[00:56:17] Well. Before he became a governor, he was just a normal guy. And on the weekends he used to ride Quadr cycles. It was his sport, like really professional big ones. You know, they go in the mud, you know, 50, 60 miles an hour. They’re really super fast like these machines. And he says, he stops and he says, lube, where are you going?

[00:56:36] And I’m carrying my paraglider, right? My backpack, I’m going up the huge hill. Instead I’m going to the top, I’m gonna fly. He says, come on, I’ll fly it. I’ll, I’ll drive you up. So he drove me up to the top and he saw me flying off the mountain. So he has the visual, he knows. He knows who I am because he’s dead work for me.

[00:56:53] And he saw what we’re going to do because he drove me up the hill. And now I’m calling him, I’m saying, look, can you [00:57:00] find me in MPT? We, I wanna go paragliding with him. He says, yeah, okay. I know what you’re trying to do. I’ll find you a normal person, because a lot of them are not. And I get a call. Just like a few weeks later you’re saying, okay, this is where you call.

[00:57:16] And we have a third assault brigade. They’re the oldest, one of the oldest in Ukraine, and they’re really well funded and supported. When they come back, they, they really have support, like major support. Um, and I got the phone, uh, the, the the number. uh, they gimme a guy. He was a double amputee. And we’re waiting for this guy. I’m talking to him Viber and writing messages and he’s super excited and like eight days before he uh, gets scheduled for another surgery. he cannot come now. And they find us another guy and the other guy comes and that’s, you know, a 20-year-old who volunteered. And, um, he actually, sent him off and then we were watching tapes with, with all the, um.[00:58:00]

[00:58:00] Volunteers to we got that moment when the primordial brain took over and literally scared them to death too, that he wouldn’t remember that he lost a leg and he was like, ah, we saw there was that moment. But for him it’s really awesome. And by the way, on all our logos, it’s a number one, it’s a real person.

[00:58:17] It’s the guy who we flew the first time. And then I invite him, I said, look for every opening and closing you can come. And he came this year for the opening. It was April nine to 19, and he actually introduced the first deaf guy who we had, well he’s completely deaf on one ear he can hear on the left side, but on the right side they dropped the grenade from a drone right next to him. He took off his right side and you know, they completely stitched it, stitched his ear. And um, I said. I said. okay, he’s going to the beach. You’re coming with me to my physical therapist. Let’s just go check you out. And we go to my physical therapist and she just straight, you know, walked down the [00:59:00] hallway and he’s walking down the hallway and she’s like, oh my God, lube, look at his leg.

[00:59:05] And I’m like, what? He said, just look at his leg.

[00:59:07] And I’m like, what? was, when they have a prosthetic leg, all the pressure is always on one leg. And our number one is this big strong guy. He is really, he’s strong and big. And basically he was standing so much on one leg that his muscles are getting compressed and they’re getting smaller and smaller to the point where they’re pressing on his sciatic nerve. And the sciatic nerve is the one that runs from your back all the way down. I think it connects like somewhere in the heel, but it’s the longest nerve. And when your muscles are short and they start pressing, what people do is they start kicking lag to the side. So prosthetic is maybe normal, but this one is not normal.

[00:59:50] And he says, look, he’s really, he’s in critical situation. Like he’s so big and active that he can go like, turn the wrong way and he’s gonna become [01:00:00] paralyzed. He’s going to become paralyzed, thinking like he’s, you know, 23 years old, he’s missing a leg and he is going to get, I said, what do we need to do?

[01:00:09] And she said, you have to bring him back for one month of intensive therapy and if we’re lucky. And he responds and does the work and he responds. He said, we maybe we can do it within one month. um, going back to Ukraine. I was flying to the states because I’m working on um, doing Diego.

[01:00:32] There is a flying side, there is a chair, there is the biggest naval base and 10 different hospitals like. It’s all there. So I was going to the states to organize to see when we can do it in the States. And I also want to find veterans to bring them here to Turkey because if somebody had an amputation in their mind and on their list it says there’s a lot of cannots.

[01:00:56] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:56] Lyubim Kogan: if they go across the ocean to a different country and they find [01:01:00] a community of people who are waiting for them and they just have a great time and just travel back, but they travel time, they come back, there’s, nobody’s gonna tell them, you cannot do this because you’re missing a lag or two because they just went across the ocean and then they came back and they know it.

[01:01:14] And that is really, you know, the reason Wings for Heroes work and why we’re different is that that guy, you know, I took him and they said, okay, you’re coming back in, in, in, in May and I didn’t know how I’m going to pay for it. So this is what I did. You know, we were, can you see,

[01:01:30] Scott DeLuzio: Yes.

[01:01:31] Lyubim Kogan: so we were on the beach that day.

[01:01:33] The guy in the red shirt shirts, his shorts is the one who. He’s deaf on his right ear. He’s three years front lines, you know, and they stitched him up and they send him back out again. He had zero psychological treatments. The guy in the middle is obviously, the guy is number one who had to come back and you can see how big he is, right? We standing in the sand. We, We dug him a hole and he is taller than us. And they, [01:02:00] I went and they printed this card, like before I went to the states. And this is basically all, you know why we are here. This is, this is not, this is not charity. This is, this is a promise cap. Uh, you are holding a promise cap. You are holding a promise that was kept. And I printed these cards. And then at the end of the next month, number one came back and we did this. 12, one-on-one, physical therapy sessions, eight with the swimming coach. He got back on the bike. One of my friends is a two time Olympic cyclist. He went to with the Turkish team to Rio and uh, came, it was like, oh man, we are setting up all these TVs, computers, all this stuff. He is like setting him up, he said, and then one day, like he was trying to do it on a stationary bike. We were outside and he’s like, one of the volunteers just gimme the helmet. He puts the helmet on and I was right there and I’m [01:03:00] like, what are you doing?

[01:03:00] He says, I’m gonna ride the bike. And I get my phone and we ride. And it’s actually on our, if you look on our Instagram or on media on our page, his first bike ride is there. So

[01:03:11] Scott DeLuzio: great.

[01:03:12] Lyubim Kogan: you know he can ride. He learned how to swim. He went through physical therapy sessions. He got super fit. He qualified for $75,000 prosthetic leg.

[01:03:22] Paid by the government, you know, he’s missing a knee. So he’s got that super duy, duper ai, whatever. He, you know, just gave him the, the knee back. And uh, he became a captain of his soccer team.

[01:03:36] Scott DeLuzio: Oh Wow.

[01:03:37] Lyubim Kogan: So what I’m saying is that I just took one guy and I watched him for more than one year, come back from after the amputation.

[01:03:46] And oh, by the way, on number one, they didn’t do it the right way the first time. They, he had to go back. After we flew him, he disappeared. And I met his girlfriend and his girlfriend said, look, one of the [01:04:00] things you need to know about him is that when things are tough, he just isolates himself. When he was in the hospital, he said, he asked him, please don’t come because I need to cry.

[01:04:09] I need to scream, but you guys are not letting me. So just, he said he. And he, same thing. He disappeared this time. He came back, I said, what is going, ah, he’s not, he’s, he cannot put his prosthetic leg on. I said, dude, what’s going on? Like he, it’s okay. You don’t need to get frustrated. We are here for you.

[01:04:27] Nobody is going anywhere. And I said, look, physical therapist, doctor, do you have another appointment? Do you have, no, I don’t have another appointment. I have one hour free. I said, and he’s suffering. I said, why? He said, look, I just had another surgery because they didn’t do it. And you called me that I can come for the opening and five days ago I get this new prosthetic leg and they didn’t fit it right.

[01:04:48] So I’m just really struggling because they just got it five days ago. I really wanted to come. So, you know, Scott, like I really, I could have done this, I could have taken them flying, [01:05:00] I could have taken a lot of photographs. And they said, look, here are these guys. They all got, you know, messed up at war and we need blow up Instagram.

[01:05:09] But they have this trauma about going back,

[01:05:14] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:14] Lyubim Kogan: even when they’re here, like sometimes they stop and they get really sad and they say like, yeah, but we have to go back. So here’s my thought. You know, I wanna make this, it works, you know, my results are phenomenal. I want to make it permanent because organizing these events is like trying to send the rocket into space and like once it gets into orbit, we are not flying it there.

[01:05:37] We just let’s bring it back and send another one and send another one. Like the reason I did it by myself, and I founded it myself because I wanted to see how it works.

[01:05:50] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[01:05:51] Lyubim Kogan: And once I saw how it works, And once I saw this, what makes it different is, is that I take an amputee [01:06:00] and I watch. What they need and they just create it as we go.

[01:06:04] There is no corporate office, no people who have jobs, who have to fulfill requirements and quotas and get checks and you know, there is no nothing like that. You know, and I did it all myself to say that one of the most annoying things that people ask me is that like, bin, why do you do this thing? It like the government’s supposed to do it or the system and everything.

[01:06:26] Like you, you, what can you do? And I, I wanted to show that, you know what, actually one person can do a lot. And you showed me that I can do a lot more when I read your book and I said, look, I have to finish mine because you know what? Scott wrote the book and then Henry Dunan wrote a book and then I have a lot to say and they really have to sit down and do it.

[01:06:48] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[01:06:49] Lyubim Kogan: to you, you know, we’re going to next level and my next level is that I wanted to be all the time. I tried on the Ukrainian soldiers because nobody cares about compliance. I’m sorry to say [01:07:00] that, but the value of life there and the value of life in the United States is really different. And if I try to do something like this in the United States, the first thing I need to do is I need to hire lawyers who will give me a list of things that I need to fulfill, insurances that I need to get policies and procedures, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[01:07:20] Before they will even think about what I’m going to do. And then I’m going to go and explain to a committee. I would like to take an ute and I would like to go lunch of the cliff. Okay. It’s funny, but the thing is that now I’m going back to the states and I’m saying, look, it works. Here are the pictures, these guys.

[01:07:42] It works. This is how I did. And by the way, it cost me for one month, it cost me $4,000 with flights, with housing, with therapy, with swimming, with everything. That’s why I do it here. It’s like it’s a place where they can come like home and I just want them to come and be here. [01:08:00] Okay.

[01:08:00] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[01:08:01] Lyubim Kogan: For as long as they need to.

[01:08:02] Because I have therapy, I have volunteers, I’ve created the, you know, that comradery that you miss, like you guys are part of a huge unit. Everybody knows what you have to do. Everybody knows like, I have to do this, this, this, and this, otherwise I die. And everybody else dies, like,

[01:08:19] Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah.

[01:08:20] Lyubim Kogan: And then you go home and then it’s like, okay, you can do whatever the heck you wanna do.

[01:08:26] And like, if we all die, nobody will even notice.

[01:08:29] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:30] Lyubim Kogan: brain is not the same. And your soul is not the same because you were a part of something. And I’m a civilian, but I went through a lot of traumatic experiences in my life and I decided to do something and I was just, you know, I think I was picked for this.

[01:08:47] I didn’t pick

[01:08:48] this. I didn’t. I needed to do something else. Honestly, I remember sitting, you know, it was April, 2024. We had right nine Russian drones flew and bumped [01:09:00] everything that I’ve spent a long time building. So I clearly knew that I gotta go and rebuild my own, right? But if I rebuild my own this time, when I have this opportunity, the likelihood that I’ll come back and do something in this lifetime, it’s like close to zero, you know?

[01:09:18] So I thought, okay, I’m going to suck this up and I’m going to try and keep going and see how far this experiment can go. It was like that, and just like every day, little by little by little, and now I can go back to the states and tell people, look, yeah, actually one person can do a lot and all I need to do is like it’s done.

[01:09:37] I need help scaling it up. So next month I get on the plane and I’m going to Bergen County, New Jersey, and I’m starting at VFWs, just talking to the guys who know like you. What I’m trying to do and like why, you know, why I’m trying to do it. And the reason why I’m trying to do it is what you asked me before on September 11th, the [01:10:00] view on the world changed for every American, like for all the people in the world, but for Americans more than anybody else.

[01:10:06] I worked in the World Trade Center. I wanted to go, you know, and retaliate, you went, your brother went. A lot of people went there and it was just like, you know, watching how we left Afghanistan when you said that, thank you for saying it, because I think it was a big mass. You know, it’s like

[01:10:24] Scott DeLuzio: Sure.

[01:10:25] Lyubim Kogan: a lot of people, mostly women are suffering because the way it was dumped.

[01:10:30] Uh, but it is just this you know, it keeps repeating and I’ve seen it long enough and I think that I worked hard enough to have an influential voice. Not like I, I don’t have millions of followers. Okay. But like. I’ve worked out with this guy for one month. I know, you know, it was me driving him, scheduling, holding bands, you know, just, I don’t go in the pool.

[01:10:57] That’s one thing I do. I don’t like pools. They [01:11:00] just freak me out. I don’t, but I walk by the pool and I watch what the coach did, and I know when the guy’s missing a leg, it’s really hard to swim straight.

[01:11:08] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[01:11:09] Lyubim Kogan: you swim like this. But then he started swimming straight

[01:11:12] and uh,

[01:11:13] Scott DeLuzio: Well, it, it, it’s great too you, you, like you said before, you don’t have a big corporate structure that is telling you what you have to do and how you have to do it, and all these things. You, you’re able to try something, see if it works. If it doesn’t, okay, well good. We don’t do that anymore and

[01:11:32] Lyubim Kogan: yeah. and we didn’t waste, we didn’t waste somebody money and time. And one of the biggest things, you know, Scott, like for me, I, I’m a civilian, okay?

[01:11:41] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[01:11:42] Lyubim Kogan: And I have all four limbs. So what I’m trying to do has nothing to do with me in the sense like it has nothing to do except I understand that there is war and there is peace, and there is a space in between.

[01:11:56] And in the space, in that space in between, [01:12:00] there are men and women who occupy that space and we have a social contract with those men and women and it goes like this, you guys go defend us and let us live at peace, pursue our dreams. You know, just do have our lives and if anything happens to you when you come back, we take care of you.

[01:12:20] Scott DeLuzio: that’s right.

[01:12:21] Lyubim Kogan: The end okay, there is no,

[01:12:25] it’s the end, but the reality is not like that. You know, there is always something. It’s not like

[01:12:32] that. So.

[01:12:35] Scott DeLuzio: No, I, and I, I appreciate that. too because um, you know, the, there are, there are, many people think, you know, Hey, this is not my problem. This is somebody else’s problem. And, and, you know, the government has to do it, and, and other people have to do it. But like you said, you’re, you’re one person just like, you know, anybody else.

[01:12:53] And, um, you could have started the Red Cross have done, you know, the, the, the mission that you’re doing [01:13:00] now. Or you could have done any number of things. You could have done something completely just for yourself and not worried about anybody else. And that would be probably like, you know, 90% of the rest of the

[01:13:12] Lyubim Kogan: Yeah. Normally, especially when you have, you know, when you lose what you work or your entire life, you go and rebuild. And I really, I was like, I’ve done it so many times and I’m thinking like I can go and, you know, find my cheese

[01:13:27] right

[01:13:28] Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

[01:13:29] Lyubim Kogan: or I can do something meaningful. I really wanted to try some, do something meaningful.

[01:13:37] I know what I’m giving up. I’m okay with that. I want to, you know, when I’m checking out that my time to go, I’m not gonna

[01:13:45] regret that I did this, the experience that I had by just being with the kid who’s like 23 years old for, he’s a kid, he can be my kid.

[01:13:55] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[01:13:56] Lyubim Kogan: But like seeing how he is, how he sees the world, like he really has to [01:14:00] deal with a lot of issues. And you see him processing it and you see him like, again, I have an ideal environment because um, I fly and that sport ends when the sun sets at the sunset, all the pilots land in one place. We all land on the same beach. We have one beach that we are authorized to land and we land in once.

[01:14:24] Place. Then we pack up our gliders and we’re sitting looking at the sunset. And imagine now we have 1, 2, 10 MPT veterans that are there watching sunset with us. It’s just something cool to do. They wanna go kayaking, let’s take them kayaking, they wanna go this, do this and this. So it’s like it added the community that exists.

[01:14:44] I gave them a purpose and then now they do something and they really like, the guys love it, you know, like everybody really wants to do it. And if you think about Turkey uh, military is mandatory. They’re fighting on the east side, Syria, you know, [01:15:00] courts, all that stuff. Terrorism is going on for 40 years.

[01:15:03] They have one of the best soccer amputee teams in the world because it’s been going, going on for so long. So like when veterans come here, like. All the Turkish guys, they come in, they like get the phone out. They say, Hey, look, I was an officer. He is an officer, and I was on the east side and I have a bullet in my back. and it’s like, just constant. Like they, the awareness, everybody knows where they’re from. Everybody knows when the young guy is missing a limb. It’s not, you know, it’s not a motorcycle act accident, especially when you have black and white logos and flags everywhere. Because, you know, I’m really big into, into, into like showing that it’s a unit.

[01:15:45] Scott DeLuzio: Mm-hmm.

[01:15:46] Lyubim Kogan: know, I, I may be one guy, but when they go, I fly paragliders in the summer in Austria, I have these magnets that go on my car and I just move the car in different spots because we fly [01:16:00] in the ski area and traffic comes, comes in in the morning this way and then they go the other way So I just moved my car and one day one guy comes, he says, oh wow, this is you.

[01:16:08] I said, yeah, I see your cars everywhere. He said, your cars are all over the place. But in any case. It’s really cool to create a community where you can come back and feel like you know you are more than, not less than.

[01:16:23] Scott DeLuzio: That’s right.

[01:16:25] No, absolutely. And again, I wanna thank you for all the, the hard work that you do. Um, you know, supporting those, those veterans uh, You know, taking ’em out on these, these trips and all the, the great things that you do. And, and not just the, the trips, but also the, the, dedication to making sure that they’re being taken care of and getting the, going the extra mile to do the, the little, the extra things that they need to, you know, like you said, the physical therapy and the other, other things that they might need um, that, that’s just kind of above and beyond what, you originally set out to do, but it’s, it’s what they need.

[01:16:57] And so you’re, you’re, doing all those things. So, um. [01:17:00] So I want, I wanna thank you for, and, and for coming on the show. I really do appreciate all the, the uh, you know, great stuff that you’re doing and, and your, your story is really uh, amazing. And like I said, I, I, I really was uh, kind of captivated by, by your story especially, especially, uh, you know, all the stuff that you were talking about earlier.

[01:17:14] And, uh, it’s, it’s just, uh, you know, great, great and I’m, I’m, uh, you know, hopeful that, that a lot of the listeners were, uh, you know, as captivated as I was, and they, they’re away. Um, that, you know, even though, um, there’s, they may just be do stuff too. And if they need the help that there’s, there are places that they can go and get the help.

[01:17:30] Uh,

[01:17:31] Lyubim Kogan: Yeah, I hope so too. you know, it’s one of that I really wanna thank you for creating this platform because there are a lot of people who need to hear this and I know, you know, even if we help one person, it does make a huge difference. And I wanna thank you for write writing the book. I don’t know if all your listeners know, but I highly recommend This book is amazing.

[01:17:54] I, I just really, it inspired me so much that I took action and I think it’s one of the [01:18:00] biggest things, Scott, that. not a compliment. It actually, I got something that was on my desk for a long, long time. I got it done and it’s like I, on Christmas Eve I finished this, I put it down and I got lost for one month. I got lost in finishing my work. And I know that, you know, like what you’re doing is just so important and you know, you helped me and I know just because of meeting you and reading your book, I will be able to help more veterans. So I’m thanking

[01:18:29] you for that.

[01:18:31] Scott DeLuzio: Well, I appreciate that. and I have no, I have no, doubt that, uh, that you will be able to help a lot more people, um, you know, e either through your book or, or through the do with uh, WINGS for, for Heroes. Um, you you’re, you’re doing a lot of great stuff. So, thank You again, Lyubim for, for coming

[01:18:45] Lyubim Kogan: you

[01:18:45] Scott DeLuzio: you.

[01:18:45] I.

[01:18:46] Lyubim Kogan: Thank you.