Lauren Fonvielle helps veterans overcome symptoms of stress, anxiety, PTSD, insomnia, physical pain, and more through the Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), also known as "tapping".
Lauren describes tapping as being similar to acupuncture without the needles. In acupuncture, as in tapping, the idea is to re-balance the flow of energy through your body.
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Scott DeLuzio 00:00:00 Thanks for tuning into a Drive On Podcast where we're focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community, whether you're a veteran active duty guard reserve or family member, this podcast we'll share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I'm your host, Scott DeLuzio. And now let's get on with the show. Everybody will come back to the Drive On Podcast. Today, my guest is Lauren Fonvielle. Lauren is a military spouse and specializes in helping others alleviate their stress, anxiety, and trauma through a technique called emotional freedom technique. Welcome to the show, Lauren.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:00:41 I'm so excited to be here and talk with you.
Scott DeLuzio 00:00:43 Yeah, absolutely. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about what you do?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:00:49 Sure. Yeah. So, like you said, I am a military spouse and I specialize in EFT. It's also referred to as tapping. I have used it personally in my journey with anxiety and stress and it has been so helpful to me that I felt called to go on to get trained, to share it with others. And particularly sharing it with military folk is important to me as I am a Navy wife. And I know how stressful it can be. And I was actually introduced to EFT shortly before my, my husband's most recent deployment. And, I am credited with helping me get through that tough time.
Scott DeLuzio 00:01:37 That's really cool. I'm glad that, first of all, glad that you found this technique for yourself to kind of make the process a little bit easier for you and kind of alleviate your own anxiety. But could you tell us how you got into doing this and, and how you found out about it and, how you, how you discovered it kind of everything that was going on then?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:02:02 Yeah, so we found out that my husband was going to have to deploy. He's in the reserves now. So it came as a little bit of a surprise. I wasn't anticipating it. So it kind of came out of nowhere and the anxiety really set in because at the time I had two young kids and just the brain started circling and all the thoughts started going. And so for me, when I start to feel really anxious and overwhelmed, I typically will find myself in a yoga class and that's exactly what happened. So I was in this yoga class and I happened to see a poster, a flyer for yoga teacher training. And that was my first step on this journey as I signed up for yoga teacher training. I don't know what happened that day, but it was like calling this push that I had to do this.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:02:53 And it started the weekend after my husband left for deployment. I didn't know how I was logistically going to make it happen, being that my family was far away, but I knew that I had to do it. So I signed up and through that process of being in the yoga studio and around other like-minded people that are talking about energy work, I was introduced to EFT. And, for those of you that are not familiar with what EFT is, it stands for emotional freedom technique and it really does help you do just that it helps you find freedom from your emotions. And when I describe it, I often talk about it like, or compare it to acupuncture because people are more familiar with acupuncture. So if you go to an acupuncturist and I'm going to take those little needles and they're going to put them in at certain points around your body and with tapping, instead of putting little needles in, we're just using acupressure and gently tapping on certain points of the body.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:03:53 And it has that similar impact. There's a lot of science behind what's going on while you're tapping on these points and we can get into that. But it was really because I was introduced to it because I was in the yoga studio. I was around these other people. I joined different groups that were exposing me to all sorts of different modalities. And at that point, I was willing to try anything to feel better. And I thought that was when I first was learning about this, the idea of tapping on yourself to just physically tapping on yourself, to reduce anxiety or to reduce physical pain, that seemed too out there to me that didn't seem like something real. And, but like I said, I was at this point where I was so anxious, I'm here, I'm going to try it.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:04:45 I'll give it a, I'll give it a whirl. And in the first group session that I was in, I was shocked, wait a second. What's happening? I do feel better. What's going on? My brain is trying to process why this is working. But the fact of the matter is that it did work and that just really piqued my curiosity. And so I continued to explore it, and tap, and eventually led me down this path to get certified, to help others with it.
Scott DeLuzio 00:05:17 You touched on something that, to me, I didn't really make this connection before when I was doing my research, trying to figure out exactly what all this meant and what you do and everything like that. But so when you compared it to acupuncture, It really made a lot of sense. How that works because acupuncture is pretty well known. I think a lot of people know what to do with the needles and everything. For me, I have a big problem with needles almost every time, like any kind of needle comes near me and my wife couldn't tell you about this. Because I, she was there for one time when this happened. Anytime any needles come around me, I pass out needles and I just don't get along. I have no tattoos. I try not to do any blood work if I can avoid it. Just not me. They're just not my friends. When I had a surgery and they had to, I put an IV in my arm and I was sitting in the waiting room waiting to go back into the surgery room and my wife was sitting there with me. And about a minute after they put the IV thing in my arm, I just was on the floor, passed out. I am no good with needles at all, but tapping, I think I can handle it.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:06:40 It’s a great alternative.
Scott DeLuzio 00:06:42 Yeah, absolutely. So, for someone like me, as soon as you said that, it totally piqued my interest because whenever I see acupuncture, oh, there's all these benefits. No, thanks. I'm good. I'll probably, I'll probably crack my skull on the floor as I pass out or whatever. So, no, it's all good. So you also mentioned that there's, there's science backing this process and everything, and I would love to hear more about that and kind of what goes into this whole process.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:07:13 Yeah, absolutely. So I'll start by saying the points that we tap on, just like when you go to the accurate acupuncturist and the needles and the points that they put the needles in that are the endpoints of the meridians and the meridians are how energy flows through our, through our bodies. So just like how blood flows through our blood vessels, energy flows through our meridians. And sometimes that energy can get stuck and tapping on. It helps to get it moving. The more science-y part of this, right, is when you're experiencing stress and anxiety or overwhelm. The amygdala in the brain is firing off, right? The amygdala is that part of the brain that controls flight or freeze. And so, and I always like to make sure that I share that. The amygdala is there to protect us, right?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:08:10 It's there so that when you are in a dangerous situation, that you are, the cortisol starts pumping through your body so that you can fight back or you can run away. So you can protect yourself. However, when we are dealing with, when we're talking about anxiety and stress are chronic anxiety and stress, and that amygdala is firing all day long, that cortisol is pumping through your body nonstop. That's not good, right? That's gonna leave you not feeling good. So what the tapping does is that as you're tapping on these points, what's happening is that a message is being sent to the amygdala in the brain, and it's telling the amygdala, Hey, you don't need to be freaking out right now. You're not in fight or flight. And it has been shown to reduce the amount of cortisol that's pumping through the body by up to 40%.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:09:00 And that was actually 43%. And that was a study that was done by Dr. Peter Stapleton. And that was in a group setting. And it's just so phenomenal because to be able to reduce the amount of cortisol that's pumping through your body, by that big of a percentage within minutes is huge. And you don't need anything besides your fingertips. And it helps you feel better. So because when you are in that fight or flight, or you're having an anxiety attack \ So I'm going to use my, put my hand into a fist and I'm, my thumb is on the inside, right? And so when we are making sound good decisions, information comes up the brainstem to the prefrontal cortex, that front part of the brain.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:09:52 So we're gonna pretend this part of my, my, fist here is this part of my brain. And you can make those good sound decisions, but when the amygdala's going off, the little, my thumb in here, right. But this part of my hand goes up. And so you can't make sound decisions because the amygdala is going crazy and it's pumping all that cortisol. And so what's happening is that when you're tapping, it's telling the amygdala, okay, you don't need to be freaking out. Don't need to be doing that. And the prefrontal cortex comes back online so that you can make those sound decisions. So when you're feeling really anxious and really overwhelmed, sometimes you'll, you'll, you'll probably have said in the past, I can't even think straight, right? Because you just, the thoughts are just going crazy. And it's because all that cortisol is pumping through your brain and public through your body. And so by tapping, it's reducing that, bringing the prefrontal cortex back to back online. So you're calming the body. When you calm the body, then you can calm the mind too, and that's a good thing. That's a good thing so that we can feel, feel better and make those better decisions.
Scott DeLuzio 00:10:59 And that's interesting too, how just tapping a certain point will help make all of that change in your body internally. So when comparing it to acupuncture or using that as, as kind of a description, I know, 've never had acupuncture, but I've seen videos and things like that, of people getting needles on their backs and other places. I am not imagining that tapping is something that you're going to be reaching behind yourself, tapping yourself on the back to do so. What are some of the locations that, that people would be, able to, to use this technique in order to reduce the,
Lauren Fonvielle 00:11:55 Yeah. So there are several main points and we call it a round of tapping. So I can just walk you through where, where the points are. So the first point is on the pinkie side of the hand, and you can tap with either hand and there's no, I always like to say there's no wrong way of tapping. So I'm tapping with my right fingers on the pinkie side of my left hand. And that's the first, that's the first spot. The next spot is right on the center of the head, the crown of the head, right in the middle. And then you move to the beginning of the eyebrows and you can do one hand, or you can do both hands at the same time. And then you go to the side of the eyes, under the eyes, under the nose, onto the chin crease, the collarbone under the arm.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:12:48 And then the top of the hand between the pinky and the ring finger on the back of the hand. And those are the main points of the protocol. You can, and I always tell people, if you're going through this. I'm going to try it, see how it makes me feel. Notice if there's one particular point that you're really drawn to. That really feels good. Sometimes these are points that you naturally will touch during the day, and you're not even aware of it. If you're sitting at your desk and maybe you're tapping on your chin, or maybe you're tapping on, on your lip, or when you're really stressed out, you grab your head and you're holding your, and get these points. So just notice, if that is you, or if one of them really, really stands out, and if you take anything away from it. That's a point that helps me feel better and know that you can go to that point, take some deep breaths and, um, and that'll make you, that'll make you calm down and feel a little bit more in control.
Scott DeLuzio 00:13:47 Interesting. And so, is this technique something that you can do for many different kinds of symptoms or, or conditions that you might be dealing with?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:14:00 It helps with a wide variety of conditions. I think that was another thing when I was first introduced to it. So it can help with anxiety and stress. It can help you with limiting beliefs. It can help you if you are now having trouble sleeping. If you're dealing with insomnia, it's, I have quite a few clients that I've worked with that have fibromyalgia and are dealing with physical pain. It can help you with PTSD and dealing with the trauma that has happened with past memories. It has really far-reaching benefits that it can help with, with all of these different things. And so the actual tapping and breathing while you're doing it, that's, that's the first part of it. But the other part of it is that then we add in the component.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:14:52 So the thoughts that you're having during it. So if we're talking about anxiety. What is making you anxious? The situation at hand that's causing the anxiety, and you use that information to create some phrases, and then you use those phrases as you're tapping on the points. So for example, you could say, even though I'm feeling so anxious, I'm acknowledging how I feel right now, even though I'm feeling anxious and I feel it in my neck and my shoulders, that's just how it is right now. You're just scoring. We're just trying to acknowledge the feelings. Because a lot of the time we, as humans, don't like to do that, especially when we're talking about intense emotions, it's a lot easier to try and stuff that stuff down and redirect our attention and ignore it.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:15:50 I think we all know that that that can work in the short term, but eventually, that's going to come back up to bite you in some way and t, that could come out, whether it's just yelling at a loved one that doesn't necessarily deserve it, or, it could come out physically. And I think, especially when we're talking about stress, there's a lot of, what I ask somebody if you're feeling stressed, where do you feel that in your body, most people have an immediate answer to that. But when we want, what people don't realize is that it's not just stress, it's any intense emotion. It could be, it could be deep sadness, it could be anger. We hold these things physically in our body. And if we don't allow them to move and release them, they're going to cause some sort of physical issue for us. Taking the time to hold the space for the emotions that you have can be a really, really powerful practice in itself.
Scott DeLuzio 00:16:53 Yeah. That's interesting too. We could have all these different kinds of symptoms and, and the same techniques could help alleviate some of these things and that, but that's interesting how that could work. So how long would it take for, for someone let's say you're, you're super stressed out or, going through, having some thoughts that are making you anxious or PTSD or whatever it is that you're going through, how long would, would someone typically expect to have to be tapping in a certain location in order to start seeing the results and the benefits of that? yeah.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:17:46 So if the answer is it, it depends on the situation at hand, right? So if it's, if you're dealing with chronic anxiety, that's been going on for a really long time, it may take longer to get to the root cause of it. A lot of the time, the issues that we are experiencing in the present day are a combination of all sorts of experiences throughout our lives that have really layered on top of each other. And some of it we're cognitively aware of, are impacting us in some of it, we are not cognitively aware that these things are still impacting us the way that they are. And with tapping, it's very, very common that, you could say, let's say I'm having a lot of anxiety about my job, right. You're tapping on, even though I'm so anxious about my job and this project, that's how it is all of this anxiety about the job.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:18:45 And then as you're tapping saying that same, those same words or that same phrase over and over on each of the points, it's very common that at one point you'll maybe have a thought that seems like it's unrelated. That seems that it's something from your past. It could be, it could go all the way back to childhood or, a time that you felt anxious when you were at home or something. And then our brain tries to say, well, that's not related. I'm anxious about my job, I'm not anxious about me being a six-year-old kid at home alone, whatever it was. But when that thought comes up, that thought is coming up for a reason it's not random. And so it really is this process of connecting the dots and just allowing the tapping to do the work.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:19:30 And when those thoughts come up, we explore it. And we tap on that and we see where that, where that leads. So I think how long it takes for it to work depends on a multitude of factors. One how long you've been dealing with the issue to how open and ready you are for healing. Sometimes we're not ready yet. There's other work that we need to do before that kind of cognitive shift can happen. That aha moment where, oh yeah, I don't really need to be anxious about that. And sometimes it happens fast. It really, it really, really depends. I mean, when I was dealing with my anxiety, I really felt that in my neck and in my jaw, I have TMJ and then my TMJ will flare-up. And so when I was first introduced to this, as I had mentioned before, it was in a group setting and it was just a general anxiety and I felt a little bit calmer.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:20:30 And then I went on to have some one-on-one sessions. And, when I learned that this could not only help with anxiety, but with physical pain, at the time I was dealing with a lot of TMJ pain. And so I was working on that. And within one session I went, when you're doing this work, you will rate it on a scale of one to 10 of how intense it is, whether it's how intense the anxiety is, or how intense the pain is. And then you rate it again at the end, too, or throughout the process to kind of see where you're at and if it's progressing. And from, in that one session of an hour, I went from an eight to a two. And that was enough to like, just blow my mind because I'd been doing all sorts of things to try and feel better. And then this weird tapping thing worked. So, yeah, it's just great when it happens quickly, but, no that is, it can take some time.
Scott DeLuzio 00:21:24 And what about the consistency with it? Is it something that you should be doing on a daily basis or a weekly or, or whatever, or is it more like a needed kind of thing? Does it get better if you do it more frequently?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:21:42 Yeah, I mean, I think with any tool, right? We're more apt to use it in the times when we're super stressed out and we need it the most when we're most comfortable using it. And we were most comfortable using a tool that we use all the time. Right. So like I'm always going to say, even a few minutes of tapping a day is going to help. And I think most of us have something to tap on each day, even if it's annoying that you were sitting in traffic, even if that's the least of your problems, there's always something that you can just help let go of through doing it. So I would say the more that you can do it the better,
Scott DeLuzio 00:22:19 So there's no risk of overdoing it where you may be desensitized to it and it, it doesn't, it's not as affected at that point. Right?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:22:29 That is not an issue. And there are no negative side effects of it. So there's no, there's no harm in giving it a try. And\I'm one who believes that we've just got to, we have to find what works best for us, and that means exploring different avenues. And so I will always just encourage people to give it a try, even if you're skeptical, even if you think it's weird,\give it a try and see if it makes you feel better. I was the same way. I really wanted to understand why this is working. But a lot of times I'll have to remind my clients. I understand that you want to understand why, but let's just take a moment to accept and be grateful that you're feeling better.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:23:11 I just had a session last week with a woman who was having really bad knee pain and she had never, she had never done tapping before. It was one of my intro workshops. And I asked for volunteers and she volunteered. And she was saying that her pain was at an eight and that she hadn't been able to do much for the last three days because she was in so much pain. So, she was tapping with me and sharing, I was asking questions as the practitioner. My job is to kind of ask questions about the pain. You want to get specific with the issue at hand, as you can. Describing what it feels like. How long she's been dealing with it. How does it make her feel that she has to put up with, those sorts of things?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:23:59 And we use the answers to those questions to create those phrases. And as we went through the process and we probably talked maybe 10, 15 minutes, and she just kept on being like, I don't know what's happening. This is really weird. It feels better. It feels better. She was totally blown away by it. And, and she was trying, and I could see the wheels turning, we can continue to explore that, but just let's accept it. Let's just be happy that it's working.
Scott DeLuzio 00:24:32 Well, right. And I think there's going to be a natural curiosity, absolutely going to want to know why this is working? Because that's such a great thing. Especially if you've been dealing with chronic pain or anxiety or you name it, if all of a sudden these things are starting to become less of a problem for you, it's well, that's great. I want to know why let's do more of that, because this is a good thing, right?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:25:01 Some of it is specifically when we're talking about anxiety and the thoughts, That cycle of thoughts that we can get caught up in. Sometimes that, that can just take up so much space, thinking the same thing over and over again, beating yourself up with these thoughts. And then when you take the time to tap and say it out loud, there is something about saying it out loud. And then all of a sudden there can be this moment, well, that felt really true a few minutes ago, but now saying it out loud just seems ridiculous. Or it seems silly, or I feel confused. That's another thing that people will say, but allowing yourself to say it out loud, there's sometimes that can be enough to begin to create that shift.
Scott DeLuzio 00:25:46 That's interesting too because we often will have the thoughts in our head about whatever it is, guilt, shame, you name it. We'll have all these things going on in our head and our minds can be our own worst enemy sometimes. And when you let those thoughts just fester in your own mind, it will probably continue to grow and just get worse and worse. But when you speak it and say these things out loud, you start to hear kind of how ridiculous some of these things,
Lauren Fonvielle 00:26:24 Right? No, that's exactly it. And it's the same thing with when you think of, I just think of a person running, right? Running from their emotions. Because they don't want to, they don't want to feel them and you get exhausted doing that. Right. And so if we just stop and invite that, that emotion in, and I know that that can be scary for people to really allow yourself to feel whatever it is that can be, a little bit overwhelming, but I promise you you'll move through it a lot faster than you will try and try and outrun it. So,
Scott DeLuzio 00:26:58 Yeah, that makes sense. Because if, you address the problem instead of running from the problem, if you run from it, the problem is still there. And it's as you said, just going to be chasing you perhaps, in that analogy. But if you stop and address the problem and do something about it, and this is something I, I think I've been advocating people to do not necessarily through tapping this technique necessarily, but through mental health counseling and other things that people can do to address some of these problems. If you do nothing about it, it's not going to get better just magically on its own. You have to do something. And as you said, there's, there's no downside, there's no side effects from trying this technique. So I, as far as that is concerned, I don't see that there's any harm in trying it right.
Scott DeLuzio 00:27:57 The worst-case scenario is it doesn't work for you or for whatever reason. And you've given yourself a little, a head massage or something like it's done something, but its worst-case scenario is it just doesn't work, but it's worth trying because the best-case scenario is you go from that eight to a two on the pain scale or anxiety scale or whatever the scale is that you're dealing with. And that just seems to me like a chance I'm willing to take and see if it'll work. Why not? Right. Yeah.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:28:40 It's a powerful process. And I think the best way of learning is by doing and just experiencing it and, and doing, doing some tapping and noticing really, really tuning in to how you're feeling. And that's, that's the one main requirement of, of the practice is that you really need to create the space for you to focus on how you're feeling. So if we're talking, we're gonna work on this anxiety issue. And you're saying, even though I'm feeling so anxious, but you're thinking about what you gotta do tomorrow, it's not going to help you. Right? So you need to allow yourself to really hone in on what's going on.
Scott DeLuzio 00:29:26 So would people be better off at least initially practicing this with someone like yourself who can guide them through it, as opposed to just starting it on their own. And
Lauren Fonvielle 00:29:41 So, yes, I mean, there are, if you go on YouTube or even not like I have a YouTube page too, but if you go on YouTube and you type in EFT and anxiety or EFT physical pain or whatever your issue is, you'll find a tap along video that you can do. However, doing that, it's not as helpful when you're not using your own words, it's most effective when you are using your own words to really tune into your specific issue. No one's going to know about you about the thought that comes up, that's related to something that happened years ago, right. And then going into detail with that. When you're dealing with, when you're dealing with, with trauma or bigger issues or longer-lasting issues, I would always recommend working with a certified practitioner, to help you through that process and guide you through that process.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:30:43 Because as a beginner with this, it can be challenging to figure out, Well, what should I say? I mean, that's, that's the most common question that I get when I'm first working with people. I don't know what to say. I'm sad, don't worry. I got you, we're just gonna talk. And then and then that's the way it works. We talk, I come up with a phrase, we make sure that you feel good about that phrase. If at any point the practitioner says something that doesn't feel right or authentic to you, you can change those words and we just go step by step through the process and see where it goes. So, yeah, I think, I always think working with a practitioner and me, myself as a practitioner works with practitioners because I find it so helpful.
Scott DeLuzio 00:31:24 Well, that's good to know too, that there are people out there who can do this is, and for people who are interested in learning more about what you do and potentially working with you, as well as sPR practitioner, where can people go to learn more about this practice learn more about what you do and everything else that you offer?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:31:49 Absolutely. So my website is mindshiftwithlauren.com . So you can go there and check me out. I do have a masterclass available. So it's mindshiftwithlauren.com/masterclass. And that's a free master class where you can get all the, more of the details about tapping. And then I'm also available for free consultations. And that can be set up by visiting talk with lauren.com
Scott DeLuzio 00:32:19 And are the consultations things like you could do through zoom or something, or is it something that you do in person?
Lauren Fonvielle 00:32:26 Yes. That is done through all, all through zoom and we can chat about whatever specifics, you've got going on and, see if, see if working together as a, is a good fit.
Scott DeLuzio 00:32:38 Well, that sounds great. I'm glad that you came on the show and, and shared this technique. One of the things that I like to do on this podcast is share different resources that are available for people that aren't your traditional, but the things that people typically think of when they're, they're dealing with anxiety or pain or things like that, where, because there's some people who have tried those, those traditional things that talk therapy that, pain management techniques and other things like that. And, sometimes it just doesn't work for them. And so when there is something else out there that could work to me, it just seems like it is worthwhile to give it a try and see if it will help these people, and the more options that are available, the more likely it is that someone's going to find something that works for them.
Scott DeLuzio 00:33:43 And so that's, that's kind of why I wanted to have you on the show and share this, technique so that it's just one more tool that, that people can have available to them and potentially use if it seems like the right thing for their particular circumstance. So, I'm glad that you were able to come on and share this with the audience another tool now that people can use,, if they weren't previously aware of this, it's something now that, that they can do and it's, it's easy enough. They can, they can do it themselves, in the privacy of their own home. It's not like they have to go make an appointment at an acupuncture place or a therapist or any of that kind of stuff.
Scott DeLuzio 00:34:35 They can do it when they need it. just right at that, that time. And I think it's definitely worthwhile to look into for anyone who's out there, who's struggling with any of these things, stress, anxiety, physical pain, any of that kind of stuff. Just give it a try and not too many tools in the toolbox. Right. Exactly. And, and if we, if we approach all of our problems, this is something my father has said for years. If the only tool that you have in your toolbox is a hammer, you're going to approach all your problems as if they're a nail. And so when the only tools that you have available are things that may not necessarily be working for you, it's worthwhile to try a different tool and see if that works for you.
Scott DeLuzio 00:35:30 And that's exactly what I wanted to get across with people here today with, with this particular episode and, and get a message across. I'm really grateful for you coming on and sharing what it is that you do, and for anyone who's listening, the links that Lauren had talked about earlier in the episode will be in the show notes to her YouTube page, her, her website, and everything else. So you can, you can find her, through there and find more information and see if this is the right thing for you.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:36:04 Perfect. I can also send you a PDF that you can include that has a visual of where all the points are too for people, but so people can check that out.
Scott DeLuzio 00:36:13 That would be excellent. Yeah. And so I'll include that in the show notes as well. And then, then that way people can kind of have that guide to take with them and, and use that on their own. So, so be on the lookout for that in the show notes, I'll be sure to include that. And Lauren, thank you again, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you. I'm really, again, glad, for the opportunity to speak with you and have you on the show.
Lauren Fonvielle 00:36:37 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This has been great. I appreciate it.
Scott DeLuzio 00:36:42 Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to check out more episodes or learn more about the show, you can visit our website driveonpodcast.com. We're also on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube at DriveOnPodcast.