Jessica Jaber is a USMC veteran who served in Iraq. She joins us to discuss her experiences, and how she's worked to live her best life after returning home.
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Scott DeLuzio 00:00:00 Thanks for tuning into the Drive On Podcast, where we're focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you're a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I'm your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let's get on with the show. Hey, everybody welcome back to the Drive On Podcast. Today, my guest is Jessica Jaber. She was a Marine Corps veteran and she served in Iraq as a truck driver. And she had some experiences over there that she's coming on to share with us and share with us how she has transitioned since coming back and all the things that she has kind of gone through. So, welcome to the show, Jessica.
Jessica Jaber 00:00:53 Thank you, Scott.
Scott DeLuzio 00:00:55 Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited. We talked a little bit earlier today. Just a little bit of background on your story for the people who are listening to this. And so, we kind of dug in a little bit to your story and I'd like to kind of start from the beginning and talk about how you joined the Marine Corps and how you got into that, and what those early days were like when you first joined.
Jessica Jaber 00:01:21 Yeah. I'll just jump right in. So again, thanks for having me, Scott. This is really exciting. So I was 18 when I joined the Marine Corps, and I joined on a dare. I didn't come from a family of military brothers or, or parents or grandparents. And so for me to join the Marine Corps it was out of the norm, so a really good friend of mine. He joined the Marine Corps, came back and his, his dress blues, came out with a group of friends and I just said, out of the blue, what would you, what would you say if I joined the Marine Corps? And he's like, oh, no way. We just did this, we just did this crucible, we just did this. And he said I don't think you would be able to do it. And so that was on a Friday night and then Monday I was in the recruiter's office signing up. So this is how I joined the Marine Corps. It wasn't a lifelong dream of mine.
Scott DeLuzio 00:02:36 I like that story because let's just do it and why not? And it's for a good cause, serving your country. At the time, did you have any career expectations or college expectations in your future? Or was it something where you were 18 and were kind of like, I don't really know what's going on with my life and this sounds better than the alternatives is that? Was that kinda like that?
Jessica Jaber 00:03:07 Exactly what it was. I wasn't that interested in going to school anymore.. It didn't really have any passions and so I'm like, yeah, Marines let's do it.
Scott DeLuzio 00:03:18 Right. It’s a good career path, in the military you can learn a lot of things. You can get a skill that you can translate to the civilian world later on, if that's something that you're interested in. When we talked earlier, you didn't really have any career path in mind with the Marine Corps. You just kind of said, put me where you need me.
Jessica Jaber 00:03:45 Yeah, exactly. So I just want to be a Marine. So when you do that, they just sign you up for whatever bill they have open. So I ended up being a motor T, a truck driver.
Scott DeLuzio 00:03:58 So yeah, that could be a little scary of an experience going into it, not knowing exactly what you're going to be doing because you sign a contract for X number of years and you could be putting in a job that you're going to totally hate, but there's a little leap of faith there. I don't care. I just want to be a Marine and that's what I'm going to do.
Jessica Jaber 00:04:19 That's exactly what happened.
Scott DeLuzio 00:04:22 So, you go through the basic training and you get through all of that and you get assigned to your first unit. How was that like going in there? I can't imagine in the motor T. There's not too many females who are just jumping to sign up for that job?
Jessica Jaber 00:04:39. There were only a couple of us. And this is back in 2000. So it's like this over 20 years ago. So I joined and got into the fleet. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton. I was the only female in my platoon at the time we had a few more in the company. My first week we were in the barracks and we shared laundry facilities. The way that I was welcomed into the Marine Corps, set the pace for my career. I'm not sure who exactly it was, but they stole my laundry and scattered it all over the barracks all over the hallways. So this was like I said, this was in 2000. But this was how I was welcomed into the Marine Corps.
Scott DeLuzio 00:05:48 And that's when we were talking before you shared that story with me and in the military, a lot of times do stupid pranks like that, but that's not exactly the way you want to welcome someone into a unit where you are potentially going to. At that point, no one really knew that we were going to war or anything in the near future, but you're potentially going to have to be looking out for each other and you don't want to start things off with the wrong foot like that. So it's unfortunate that stuff like that happens, but hopefully, things changed as time went on. 9/11 happens and then all of that ramps up to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan, comes up and people, hopefully, you're starting to take things a little bit more seriously. So speaking of 9/11, we didn't mention this earlier when we were talking, but where were you? What was that like for you when news of all that took place?
Jessica Jaber 00:06:57 Oh, sure. Yeah, we didn't get into this. I actually flew into Washington Reagan airport in DC or near DC. On September 10th, I was supposed to be in Quantico. On September 11th, which I was, I ended up being in Quantico., but that night I drove past the Pentagon. And then, I was actually away from my unit, when nine 11 happened and I was actually on the east coast, at Quantico. So I was not near any of my equipment. Right. And, so I was stuck in Quantico. I think it was a week and a half before they let any of the flights start, leaving from there. So, yeah, that's where I was. Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio 00:07:51 And that had to be pretty scary being away from your unit and all the people that you knew. I mean, you were still with other Marines and, and things like that where you were, but still, it's a crazy time. You don't know what's going on. Nobody really knows what was going on at that point. It was all new to all of us. I always like to hear where people were and what they were doing if they were in the military when 9/11 happened, just because it's just a part of our country's history that, I think it's one of those things like the Kennedy assassination if you're old enough for other things like that, where you just know where you were and what you were doing at that time. I think anyone who was around that time, old enough to know what was going on, knew where they were, knew what was going on, but it's interesting to hear from a military perspective where people were and what they were, what was going through their minds at that point
Scott DeLuzio 00:08:53 So then guess fast forward a couple of years and you find yourself in Iraq, right?
Jessica Jaber 00:08:59 Yeah. I went to Iraq in 2003, so I actually got called home. I was on Christmas leave. So in 2002, I got called home or called back to base. And in January of 2003, we boarded the USS Boxer. We floated over to Kuwait. So it took us about five weeks to get there. And then we stayed there for a couple of weeks. We were in Kuwait for a couple of weeks and then the war officially started.
Scott DeLuzio 00:09:34 Right. And so you guys being the truck drivers, you were the ones who were driving up from Kuwait? Is that how you basically convoyed up to wherever you're going?
Jessica Jaber 00:09:46 Exactly. So that's how we came over on, on ships. And so we'd brought most of our vehicles along with us, We drove our truck.
Scott DeLuzio 00:09:56 Up and you went up to Baghdad, correct?
Jessica Jaber 00:09:59 Right. Yeah. We started, like I said, we started in Kuwait week across the line of departure and ended up in Baghdad on April 9th. I remember, which was, I think, the official end of the war.
Scott DeLuzio 00:10:15 All right, we're here for the party and then wait, what's going on?
Jessica Jaber 00:10:20 I think that was the word that the war is ending, we know that wasn't true. So we spent some time in Baghdad, ended up going south a little bit to the airbase and we were stationed. We kind of parked there for a few months and ended up coming home in September of 2003. So I spent about six months in the country.
Scott DeLuzio 00:10:47 Yeah. And so, when you were, what was the job that you had and what were you guys doing and where, where did that take you out of that, out of that all work out for you? What were your experiences like over there?
Jessica Jaber 00:11:01 Yeah, so our unit, we were a supply unit, we provided beans, bullets, bandaids for the First Marine Division. So we had medics attached to us Navy medics. And so anywhere that the first Marine division went, we would follow in lockstep. Sometimes we were in front of them, so they could just drive right up and get their supplies, get their fuel, my specific job. I did have a Humvee when we got off a ship except it started on fire as soon as we got on land.
Jessica Jaber 00:11:49 I ended up being a passenger then the rest of the time. And you worked the communications for our vehicle.
Scott DeLuzio 00:12:02 Right. And during that time you're driving around, it's a hostile area to be in. And so naturally you're probably seeing some combat throughout this deployment and correct.
Jessica Jaber 00:12:18 Yes I was in the lead of a couple of vehicles, so we drove around with the seal and a Gunnery Sergeant. So we were out scouting a lot of places before we brought along the rest of the company. We ventured over the Tigris, we ventured over the Euphrates bridges. We actually got a couple of combat action ribbons out of that deployment.
Scott DeLuzio 00:12:51 Yeah. And that's something that I think about when people hear about other people's deployments. If someone was saying, oh, well, I was a truck driver and I was driving around. People don't necessarily think about combat with that. That's not the thing that pops into your head when you're thinking about someone and the job that they're doing, it's like, okay, well, you were just driving a truck, right. But that's not true either. You're driving a truck, but you're driving it in a hostile territory. And the people who are on the other side of the enemy really, they don't care what your job is. They see Americans and they want to take out as many of them as they can.
Scott DeLuzio 00:13:44 So they don't care that you're a truck driver or a cook or a mechanic or whatever. They just see you as an American. And that's all I care about. They don't care really what your job is, whatever your job is, it's there to help the Americans and that's not what they want. So I think that's an important perspective. For people to understand is that, no matter what you did over there, you were, even if you were on the base the entire time, you still were in danger, 24/ 7 at to some extent because, bases get more dirt bases, get suicide bombers driving into the, to the bases and things like that, all these things happen. So at any point that could have happened to anybody who gets deployed. And so when we're talking to other combat vets or other people who've deployed to combat zones, whether they've directly seen combat or not, it's one of those things where you have to constantly be on alert for those things to happen.
Scott DeLuzio 00:14:53 And that's part of the training that you get to is, if you always need to be alert, head on a swivel, all that kind of stuff. And so it's important, I think for those people who haven't experienced these things to recognize that when there are those people who were quote-unquote, just a truck driver or just a cook, or just a whatever, they probably had to experience a lot of the same kind of things. Maybe it wasn't on an every single day basis. But they still had to experience it. And in that still heightened sense of alertness and everything like that still goes along with all of that. And when you come back home, that's one of those things that's kinda hard to shut off. Right?
Jessica Jaber 00:15:44 Exactly. That's a good way to put it. That heightened sense of alert is always on the ready. Yeah.
Scott DeLuzio 00:15:51 It’s hard. I've been there too. I was an infantryman and so we were in Afghanistan and you're always looking for that next person. Who's gonna jump out with a rifle or an RPG or whatever. That's just what you're trained to do, and you're always doing it. And then you come home and you're walking in Walmart or whatever, and it's like, you don't have to be constantly, head on a swivel, looking down all the aisles and all that kind of stuff. Well, maybe Walmart, is not the best example, but it's one of those things where you're constantly on alert, you don't know how to shut that down. And so, that's kinda, what I wanted to get into with you is to talk about, how you've transitioned, since getting back home and getting out of the, out of the military and how you have adjusted to civilian life and making the best of, of what you have going on.
Jessica Jaber 00:16:57 Yeah. I have some struggles and not just from combat. I think some of the events that happened in the military in general. We are kind of conditioned to not be too emotional, right. Not to show your emotions, not to show affection or love or empathy. I still struggle with that 20 years later. So that's something that I've noticed I've recognized and have been trying to work on, over the last 20 years, I've been through a couple of divorces, based on struggle with, with showing my emotions, being, being open, being, authentic. Right. I always have this, this tough girl, kind of armor up that it's really hard to bring people in and to let people in. So that's one of the things that I continue to struggle with is being vulnerable, showing my emotions, knowing that it's okay to show your emotions.
Scott DeLuzio 00:18:26 And that's one of the things that we like to talk about on the show too is that it's okay to open up and talk about things, and showing emotions. That's part of it too, I think. I think a lot of people in the military struggle with that too. The tough guy mentality, you gotta, you can't show your emotions or any of that kinda who wrote that rule where can I go kick his ass? Because like, that's not true. Like why, why can't you show your emotions? Why can't you talk about things like that? That should be part of just normal life, I think.
Jessica Jaber 00:19:11 Yeah, exactly. And so I've been getting a lot of help through having a, and I'm not sure if this is nationwide, but it's called the vet center, in Milwaukee, I'm in Wisconsin. So, we have this bed center who is great, she's just a great lady that I've been working with for the past 10 years actually. Our work is very specific on feeling these emotions as much as, as much as I don't want to do that, but it's, it's, it's very healthy, I think.
Scott DeLuzio 00:19:42. And it is like slowly learning how to relearn, how to feel those emotions, because it's strange because at one point or another, we all were civilians and we all had the, I'll just say, normal civilian mindset about things. And then we go through the military and we get drilled into us. This is how it is, and this is how you're supposed to act and how you're supposed to behave and all this kind of stuff. And then we get out and we're like, okay, well, that's how I'm supposed to behave. So I'm just going to continue behaving that way. So we all knew at one point how to have emotions, but then we get that drilled out of us. And now it's like a struggle to pick that back up. And, and I get that like that does make some sense.
Scott DeLuzio 00:20:31 So you had trouble with the emotions and making connections with people. , that is certainly difficult especially when you're talking about relationships like a marriage, but that's a hard thing to have to go through not only for yourself but also for your spouse too, to be trying to make the connection and just not seeming like anything was sticking. So it's hard. And it's one of those things that you do have, you try to work on, you have to try to make that better for, for yourself, for the other people in your life.
Jessica Jaber 00:21:09 Exactly.
Scott DeLuzio 00:21:10 So you also mentioned earlier about these panic attacks that you were having. Would you be willing to share anything about that? I thought it was interesting what you're saying and kind of like what was happening with that in your situation. I'd love to be able to kind of dig into that a little bit if you're willing to share any of that.
Jessica Jaber 00:21:32 Yeah, yeah, definitely. Another thing that I struggled with is, really that heightened anxiety, heightened, Something bad is going to happen. It led to somewhat of these panic attacks where I would have these episodes and my body was actually shutting down. My heart was stopping. Because there's that fight or flight or freeze kind of thing that happens to your body and my body when it was scared that something bad was gonna happen. My heart stopped and I had these tests done, nothing was wrong with my brain. Nothing was wrong with my heart. Nothing, I didn't have cancer, nothing was wrong with me. Until we actually caught one of these episodes, We actually caught what was actually happening.
Jessica Jaber 00:22:38 So I was at the Madison VA and they saw what was happening and my heart had stopped for 20 seconds all because I was about to get, or I got shot. So I was like, I was afraid of needles. So I got this shot and I'm like, oh no, oh no. And I almost panicked. And I actually did panic and I had an episode and my heart stopped. So they saw that my heart stopped for 20 seconds and that had been happening, almost on a weekly basis after I got out of the military.
Scott DeLuzio 00:23:17 So just to clarify, just so people who are listening, because we talked about this earlier, so I knew a little bit of what, what you're talking about here, but when you say that your heart stopped, it's not like like in the songs when someone says like, oh my heart skipped a beat. When I, when I saw that, no, it wasn't, it's not like that. It's like your heart literally stopped beating for those 20 seconds. There was like no pumping, no blood flow, nothing like that for, for 20 seconds. And, and so that was leading to obviously you're, passing out, in, in that, that form. Right. But, then it led to seizures as well. Right?
Jessica Jaber 00:23:55 Yeah. It was. So my heart was stopping for such a long time that it had my body going into seizure-like activities.
Scott DeLuzio 00:24:02 Right. Yeah. So, and, and so what ended up happening with all that, like is that something that could keep happening or is this is it under control with what's going on with all?
Jessica Jaber 00:24:15 Yeah, so I was, I was fortunate that they, being the VA, they caught, they saw what was happening. And so that same two days later I had a pacemaker put in, so the pacemaker, it doesn't cure like the root cause. It doesn't cure that, the anxiety or whatever's causing that panic. But it keeps my heart beating.
Scott DeLuzio 00:24:41 It's helping the symptoms.
Scott DeLuzio 00:24:47 I wasn't the best biology student, but I know that that's a big thing. So you want to keep that thing going, so that's good. . I mean, so that's good. But there's still the panic attacks right there. That's something that hasn't been cured necessarily by the pacemaker. Right?
Jessica Jaber 00:25:05 Right. So I still get heightened awareness, anxiety. , I was mentioning that we crossed the Euphrates, we crossed the Tigris river. I still struggle with crossing bridges. I panic when I need to cross a bridge. I'm just driving over a long bridge. My heart doesn't stop anymore, which is great.
Scott DeLuzio 00:25:32 Especially great for the driver.
Jessica Jaber 00:25:35 Right. But, So there's still some of that.
Scott DeLuzio 00:25:41 Yeah. And, and that's, it's interesting, like the things that trigger/ Different people from their experiences overseas like you were saying, diving over a bridge is something that triggers this panic attack and this thing, anxiety. But I've talked to so many people who have different things that are not necessarily driving over a bridge, but other things that are just part of normal everyday life. And they trigger this reaction, this anxiety, and panic in them. And it makes it really hard to just go through your day-to-day life. Especially if you live in an area where there's a lot of bridges, right? For, for someone like yourself, or if you, have a lot of other triggers around you, then it makes it hard. And you almost feel like you want to just seclude yourself and stay away from all those things, but that's not always the best solution to the problem, right?
Jessica Jaber 00:26:38 Exactly. You have to, you have to really get, go there every day and face your fears or face your struggles and just find things that'll help.
Scott DeLuzio 00:26:52 Yeah, for sure. And, and that's just to clarify, that's not saying like if you have a fear of being shot, but you're not going to go and have people start shooting at you to face your fear. So that's not what we're talking about, but if your fear is of the loud noises from a gunshot or something like that then maybe popping balloons or something like that to trigger that same kind of reaction, but in a much safer way than going and standing out on the other end of a shooting range or whatever, like that would be a bad idea, don't do that. So you, this anxiety and the PTSD is sort of been a part of your life for the last 20 ish years or so. How have you managed with that and what, what have you done to try to cope with, with that too, get through the, these things and be able to live with, with it or, or live better with it for maybe a better way to put it?
Jessica Jaber 00:27:58 Yeah. So it took me a while. I've been trying to learn to embrace this part of me because it is ingrained. It is a part of me now, this anxiety. This anxiousness that I feel and, and always being on the ready I've tried multiple things over the years. Medication helps me every day, it was just a hard time to get through every day. So I turned to medication, which has been helpful sometimes. I've also tried massages, just going in and getting those, really tight spots. I mean, anybody would enjoy a massage, right? But, the VA actually pays for me to go into the community and get these deep tissue massages to relieve some of that stress and the tension that's in my body. So just to, to help relax my body,
Scott DeLuzio 00:29:17 You mentioned that when we were talking earlier and I'm glad that you brought it up again because that was something I didn't realize that the VA would cover. And I'm sure a lot of other people probably didn't realize that either, but like you were talking about like that, that tension in your jaw or in your shoulders or in your back, or whatever. That tension that you just carry around, a massage could really help release some of that tension and really alleviate some of that. And if the VA is going to pay for it too, give it a try. I think it's, it's worth a shot. I mean, at the end of the day, maybe it doesn't have long-term benefits, for someone, but you got to massage out of the deal.
Jessica Jaber 00:30:07 Yeah. So, yeah, it's a bonus that the VA offered that to me.
Scott DeLuzio 00:30:16 I'm really glad you mentioned, and there were some other things like the massage and other things that I wasn't sure that the VA would even cover, you said there were some other things that you've tried as well with varying degrees of success, right?
Jessica Jaber 00:30:26 Yeah. So I have tried acupuncture, which was an option that they offered to go out into the community and get acupuncture cause they don't specifically offer that at the VA, but it's through, what's called community care is what it's called for. I don't think these options were available maybe 20 years ago. I feel like the VA may be getting more options, recently. And these are really great, easy things that, that may help may not help. I didn't care for the acupuncture too much,
Jessica Jaber 00:31:08 Right. We'll just stay away from needles. I think that could help some other people, I've read a lot about it, so
Scott DeLuzio 00:31:16 Yeah, for sure. And, and I think these are good options and I think community care is a more recent thing. I think it's, within the last few years, if they started opening it up to other services that were not necessarily provided by the VA, but, but could also help the veteran. So they opened it up so that you can get the treatment at a civilian, acupuncturist, or a massage place or whatever. These are our definite options. And so how did you go about finding out first off that the VA even would cover these things and how did you approach that subject? Was it through your primary care doctor at the VA or was it through some other service that they offered?
Jessica Jaber 00:32:06 Yeah, so I'm active in the VA with a primary care provider once a year, go in. And, also through the Vet Center, the counselors at the Vet Center they learn about learning, learned about things, and, informed me about that. I'm pretty strong-willed and I wasn't gonna give up on myself, and really wanted to look for things that were going to help me make it through, just every day, right? My everyday struggle with anxiety and nervousness, and PTSD. How can I make, how can I make every day, a little bit easier? And so I was really doing a lot of research on. Hey, what can help me? and I talked to my primary care provider at the VA and she mentioned acupuncture, she mentioned massage., and she said “we do massages all the time. If that keeps you healthy, if that could get you maybe a way from, office, some of the medications that you rely on, Hey, we'll do that all day long.” So I think it was a combination, of me asking questions of, of having a really good provider, a good resource at the vet center. Just to know about these options out there.
Scott DeLuzio 00:33:41 Yeah. So I guess it's really just a matter of, for the people who are listening, ask what's available in, and see if you can get these types of things, be your own advocate, I guess. Right. go in and say, I heard that the VA will cover massages or acupuncture, or maybe there's some other type of therapy or thing that you think might work for whatever it is that you're going through. It's not necessarily offered by the VA, but maybe they can, maybe they can help with that. So, it's definitely worth asking, do you might have to do a little bit of research on your own to figure out what is available out there even in the community, because if, if there's no acupuncturist in your area, then that, well, that's kind of a moot point, right?
Scott DeLuzio 00:34:31 You're not gonna, you're going to drive 500 miles away to go find an acupuncturist if there's no one there. I don't know, maybe you will, but still, it's one of those things where you might need to do a little research ahead of time before you approach your provider for that type of thing. But, I'm glad that you brought those things up because before we talked, I didn't even realize that those would be things that are available through, not necessarily through the VA, but that they would cover them. I think, great feedback and some great information for the people who are listening to know that there are other things available just because of their age that don't necessarily offer them. You still could find the help that you need, through other organizations that might be out there. And you also mentioned the sensory deprivation float tank thing, how did that work for you? I've seen things about it. I've been curious about it. I just never did it. To me, it's just, I didn't know, really/, I couldn't put two and two together. It's like, how would this work? How is this workout, but what was the experience like for you?
Jessica Jaber 00:35:47 Yeah. And, I was invited to join. I was invited to go with the counselors through the vet center. Right. So she said, Hey, I think we are gonna offer this to veterans. Let's go try it out. And I think it's just a big pool of water with salt in it. And you just float there,
Scott DeLuzio 00:36:09 Going to click a pod. Right. It's like a thing that closes in on you, like, almost like an egg,
Jessica Jaber 00:36:14 Like in a shaped pod. Yeah. Until you just float there, no music, really no lights and you just float there. I think that's very soothing to some people, and that might be an option, through the VA. I did not continue on using that. I mean, it sounds super relaxing. I got a little bored, but, I think when you get over the weirdness of what's going on, I think it could be very relaxing, soothing, to some people.
Scott DeLuzio 00:36:55 Yeah, sure. And I think with all of these things that we were talking about, whether it's a massage or the acupuncture or the medication, or the other therapies that, that, that people might go through or that you were going through, I think the important thing is you try different things. And if something doesn't work like acupuncture, it didn't work out for you that probably made your anxiety a little bit worse because you don't have needles. And I understand that too because I don't like needles either. But if that doesn't work for you, it's not like all hope is lost. There's definitely other things out there. And, I think it's really a choice to want to get better, to want to be able to cope and deal with some of these stresses and the anxiety and everything better. And if you can certainly choose the other way and just lock yourself in your room and never come out and seclude yourself from the world.
Scott DeLuzio 00:37:56 And that's your choice. And you certainly could do that but not really living a great life at that point. You're not, you're not living to your fullest potential. But then I hear stories like yours and the things that you've done. And you said, you're like a fighter you're gonna push through and you're going to keep going. And that's exactly what it sounds like you're doing. You're fighting to get yourself better: to get through whatever issues that are holding you back from living the best version of your own life. And so I applaud you for that. And I think that it's wonderful that you keep on pushing on and keep on trying new things because there's something out there. If you haven't tried it yet, and you haven't found it yet, there's still, there's other things that you haven't tried and you can keep trying and keep trying until you find that thing that works for you.
Scott DeLuzio 00:39:01 It could be meditation or yoga or, or any number of other things. There's so many things out there, could be art therapy or whatever, there's so many things that people do and they've tried it and been successful with the results that it's like. There's no way you've tried everything. Right. And I'm not talking necessarily specifically to you, Jessica, but I'm talking to whoever might be listening. There's so many things that you could try and do, you just have to keep trying and keep fighting for yourself, and not give up on yourself. And I think that's the name of the game, really.
Jessica Jaber 00:39:44 Yeah, exactly. Because I wouldn't exactly say that. I found that thing that's gonna cure me. Or that's gonna help me. but I keep on trying and, and sure. It's discouraging. Like, oh man, I can't do acupuncture, but I heard it was really good. Oh, man. But I'm not done giving up. I know that I'm going to keep on searching for those things that call me. So
Scott DeLuzio 00:40:13 Yeah. And, and that's encouraging to hear that side of things where you've tried something, it didn't work, but you're going to keep trying. I think that's the message I wanted people to take away from this episode is, is that just because one thing or two things didn't work for you all hope isn't lost, it's not like you can just throw in the towel and be like, oh, well, I'm a lost cause. And, this is useless to keep trying. It's not like that at all. You’ve got a lot going for you, and you have a lot to keep pushing for. And so I think that that right there just shows that if you want it bad enough, you can keep fighting for it. And you'll find it. I'm confident that you will, whatever that thing for you happens to be, you'll find it.
Scott DeLuzio 00:41:15 It's just a matter of figuring out what works for you. It's anything else in life, you go to a restaurant and there's a hundred things on the menu. And if you bring a hundred people through the restaurant, they may all pick a different thing on the menu. And they may all say that they had a wonderful meal, but they all had different things. So there are hundreds of options out there for things to help you get better. And it's just a matter of trying them all and, and figuring out what works for until you find the thing that works.
Jessica Jaber 00:41:53 Yeah. I really appreciate this podcast. Because it sounds like you're doing great work with bringing all of these things together in maybe one spot. I'm going to go back and I'm going to look maybe something that art therapy will be good for me? I thank you for bringing all these resources together in one spot.
Scott DeLuzio 00:42:18 Yeah, absolutely. And, ultimately what I'm trying to do is give the resources and give hope to the people who are feeling like they're at a loss and they don't know where else to turn. And so hopefully things like this and, and stories like yours that are encouraging for the people who don't know what else to do. It's like, well, just keep trying something, Don't just sit there and let things get worse, try something else. I liked that you were able to share that and give that message out. So I really do appreciate it. And I thank you for joining us today, to share your story. I know, some of the stories are not the most fun thing to talk about but I think it's because you did a good service to the people who are listening and I really do appreciate that.
Jessica Jaber 00:43:16 So thanks for having me, Scott.
Scott DeLuzio 00:43:17 Absolutely. Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to check out more episodes or learn more about the show, you can visit our website driveonpodcast.com. We're also on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube Drive On Podcast.