Linda Maloney and Steve Alpert work together on a project called Proudly She Served, which highlights women military veterans and their service by raising awareness of the challenges that many women face when transitioning to life outside of the military. Linda is a Navy veteran who flew combat missions over Iraq, and the CEO of Woman Veteran Speakers. Steve is a fine art oil painter whose work honors the men and women who serve in the US military.
Links & Resources
- Proudly She Served Website
- Steve Alpert Art Website
- Proudly She Served on Facebook
- Proudly She Served on Instagram
- Proudly She Served on LinkedIn
- Military Fly Moms book by Linda Maloney
- Women Veteran Speakers Website
Scott DeLuzio: 00:00:03 Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast, where we talk about issues affecting Veterans after they get out of the military. Before we get started, I'd like to ask a favor if you haven't done so already, please rate and review the show on Apple podcasts. If you've already done that, thank you. These ratings help the show get discovered so it can reach a wider audience. And while you're there click the subscribe button so that you get notified of new episodes as soon as they come out; if you don't use Apple podcasts, you can visit DriveOnPodcast.com/subscribe to find other ways of subscribing, including our email list. I'm your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let's get on with the show. Hey everybody, today my guests are Linda Maloney and Steve Alpert. Linda and Steve worked together on a project called Proudly She Served.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:00:51 which highlights military women, Veterans, and their service by raising awareness of the challenges that many women face when transitioning to life outside of the military, which is something that we talk about all the time on this podcast. So I thought it was a great fit to have Linda and Steve on the podcast. Linda is a Navy Veteran who flew combat missions over Iraq and is also the CEO of Women Veteran Speakers and Steve is a fine art oil painter whose work honors the men and women who served in the U S military. So, welcome to the show, Linda and Steve. Why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself. So Steve, I guess we can start with you.
Steve Alpert: 00:01:36 Okay. Thanks Scott. Thanks for having us; really appreciate it. Let's see where to begin. I've been fine art painting for 22 years; before that I was a TV producer. I was a news and documentary [producer]. I'm working on a major documentary right now that I was invited in to produce with a Veteran, as a matter of fact. In 2003 there was a mid-air collision of two black Hawk helicopters over Northern Iraq. Actually, it was Mozal and we lost 17 soldiers. And that was on November 16th, 2003. That's the date of my birthday. And I read about it. And I sat there and it really gripped me. I don’t know why I thought this but I thought to myself, what the last 30 seconds of their lives could have been like, and I was just horrified.
Steve Alpert: 00:02:27 And when I grew up in the 1950s, this country was very, very patriotic. You know, I was born six years after the finish of world war two. And so the 1950s you go to school and it was the pledge of allegiance and American flags were everywhere. And I felt really, really special growing up as an American. I just had a strong feeling for it. In 1968, I was a junior in high school and I went to my local congressman with my father to ask to initiate paperwork to gain entry into West Point, which I had been to many, many times having grown up about 45 minutes away. So we used to run track meets there. We used to visit there on school trips and I just had a special feeling for the place.
Steve Alpert: 00:03:17 Well, it was not to be. The Vietnam war was going on and the body bags were coming back very heavily and I chose to rescind my request. I demonstrated against the Vietnam war. That was a really tough thing, but I had a strong feeling. I thought, you know what's the matter with my country? Why are we doing this? I don't get it. I used to be so proud of being an American and seeing the American flag and feeling great about it. I visited the wall in 1985 and had a major experience there. I didn't know anybody who had gone or any names there, but I felt terribly guilty. I felt that my name should have been on that wall or at least I should have served. I broke down.
Steve Alpert: 00:04:08 I was sobbing actually after having read a letter that a mother had left for her son on his birthday on that particular day that I was there in June 1985. And then I kind of buried the whole thing. I got myself out of there. And then September 11th happened and my wife and I lived five miles from ground zero. I had gone into ground zero about 17 days, no, on September 18th, nine days later. I used to be in the news business. So I felt like I could get myself in there and I did get myself in there. I kind of double-talked the policemen over on Canal Street. And I got into the area. It was so odd. I shot video that I've never actually looked at. The fact that my hometown was attacked like that.
Steve Alpert: 00:04:59 And that our country was attacked re-energized my feelings of patriotism. And then when I read about that mid-air collision, it really ramped me up and I changed my painting direction to making paintings that honor men and women in uniform, and started with black Hawk helicopter paintings. And that led me on a long, long road including a visit to Walter Reed, the old Walter Reed, and met four recovering soldiers. Two of whom were severely wounded. And I don't know, I just have this connection. I don't even know where it comes from really. And I pursued this and an old friend of mine who was a Marine fighter pilot in Vietnam, was working in the Pentagon. And he said, there's somebody that you have to meet and they have to meet you. And it was a woman named Dawn Halfaker, who was a US Army Captain.
Steve Alpert: 00:05:55 She was wounded and lost an arm at the shoulder in Iraq; she was a West Point grad. And we met for lunch, not knowing really why we were meeting. And I was so taken with her, with her leadership, with her softness, her wit, her humor, her sensitivity. I said, I'd like to make a portrait painting of you. And I wasn't even really making portraits at that time. And she said, okay. And I was just finishing another series at that time. So it was about two years later that I actually took some photos of Dawn after we had lunch. I don't think Dawn likes her picture taken necessarily. And I just squeezed off six quick images. And one of them really spoke to me. So I started making this portrait and then I thought to myself, well, I'm making one portrait. What's the point of making one? I really should do a series, but really that's it. I had no idea where or what, or how. Somehow along the way, a woman in Sacramento, California, I'm sorry, Linda what's her first name?
Linda Maloney: 00:07:02 Melissa Washington. Who's the founder of the Women Veterans Alliance. And she's actually one of my members of Women Veterans speakers.
Steve Alpert: 00:07:11 Melissa said you have to meet Linda Maloney. So I called Linda, we had a conversation, all of a sudden it's like a match struck. It was like a fire going and Linda said, you know, this match is my personal mission. I didn't know that Linda had written two books and her illustrious background as a Navy flyer. And I was so impressed with her. And then we started, you know, what are we going to do? We're going to do something. So we started building it like brick by brick. We didn't even have a name for the project for at least six or seven months until somebody came up with Proudly She Served. I don't even know who had that.
Linda Maloney: 00:07:48 I went through many iterations. I don't know; it was painful. It was painful coming to that. We actually went through so many.
Steve Alpert: 00:07:57 But the truth of the matter is that Linda and I have only been in person with each other three times. We had a meeting in my apartment early on, and then we had dinner with our spouses. And then we had a trip to Washington DC to meet Senator Tammy Duckworth just about a year ago before the shutdown to meet some people that the Women's Memorial
Linda Maloney: 00:08:20 Military Memorial.
Steve Alpert: 00:08:25 And so, we've kept on building; I will say without Linda, without the paintings, we wouldn't have a project, but without Linda, there would be no project. I wouldn't be painting and no project at all. Linda is a master organizer, tenacious, get-it-done person. And Linda and I have built a team now of people, the right people who've showed up. Showing up at the right time. So we have everything except our most important thing, which is funding, which we're working on, but we have a team of professionals now working with us, all volunteer; we're volunteers as well. And we hope to get this thing financed and on the road, and I've already spoken too much. So go ahead.
Scott DeLuzio: Linda, let's hear from you a little bit about your background and where you're coming from.
Linda Maloney: 00:09:20 Sure, sure. Well, Scott, thanks so much for having us on the show today. I served 20 years in the Navy. I was an aviator. I was prior enlisted and then got picked up for an officer program and got my commission, went to flight school and the rest is history, but I was able to transition from a support squadron to a combat squadron when the combat exclusion law was repealed in 1993. I retired in 2004 and I have a family. I didn't get married until the last couple years of my career and didn't have my first child until the year I retired from the Navy. And then I had my second child a couple years after that. So my husband and I are older parents, we're retired. We have teenagers now, but so as Steve was mentioning, you know, my personal mission is to highlight women Veterans.
Linda Maloney: 00:10:12 And I had a book published called Military Fly Moms and it is a coffee table style book of 70 women aviators who are moms. And it tells their story. And then I also started Women Veterans Speakers five years ago, and we are a speaker's connection agency. And we connect our members to different types of clients, corporate, colleges and universities, professional organizations to be speakers, coaches, trainers, and facilitators. So it's really my thing, my own personal passion to highlight women Veterans. And it became important to me because throughout my military career, it was such an oddity to so many people of being a woman aviator in the military. And I would get the question all the time, who are they? And so I would always say, they could be your mom, your sister, your neighbor, your niece.
Linda Maloney: 00:11:08 And it just became my personal mission really to tell their stories and to highlight who they were, that they're everyday heroes, amazing women doing great things. And so when Melissa Washington connected Steve and me, he and I went back and forth for quite a long time collaborating, trying to decide where we would go with this project. And like Steve said, we just built it brick by brick and coming up with the name and the logo. And we started out with, I think, eight women Veterans that were going to be the portraits. And Steve is the executive director and the artist, I am the project director. And then, like Steve said, we have a team of men and women who all volunteer. Hopefully at sometime in the future, we will pay them. But right now they're all pro bono.
Linda Maloney: 00:12:01 We have some amazing women who are college interns who are helping us with our social media videos. We have a wonderful website designer. We have our executive producer, who's going to help us with our porch drawn billing and our book launch a year from now. And we just brought on board a couple of new folks to the team that are going to help us with sponsorship and media outreach. But it's been really a work of love. Everyone's really given so much of their time. And a lot of work has gone into it. It's probably been about three years now. And so the culminating event is going to be the portrait unveiling and the book launch, which will be in March of 2022. Steve just completed our final portrait. And I'll let him talk a little bit about the portraits, but it will be at the Military Women's Memorial in Arlington, Virginia, which is a beautiful facility.
Linda Maloney: 00:13:02 if you've ever seen it, absolutely beautiful it's right next to Arlington National Cemetery. And we hope to have 300 to 400 people there, a large event with our sponsors where we will have a keynote speaker there who's a personal friend of mine and someone that a lot of people know, she and I served together in the Navy, Tammy Jo Schultz, who was the Southwest airline pilot that was in the news a couple years ago for bringing the crippled airplane into Philadelphia. And if anyone Googles her, she will come up immediately. And we also hope to have Senator Tammy Duckworth, who's also one of our portrait participants, speak at the event, but it's been a real legacy of love. And right now we're starting to reach out trying to get sponsorship for the project at the unveiling and the book launch. It also will be a gala event to help raise additional funds because we're going to have a national exhibition tour for all the portraits a year to two years following the portrait unveiling and the book launch.
Linda Maloney: 00:14:13 And that's what we'll do with that; the portraits will travel to 10 key locations throughout the United States. And then we'll also have a curriculum that will go with the portraits since it will have some speakers there. And the whole purpose of that is to motivate and inspire young women and also young men that they can achieve anything they want. And part of the mission of this whole Proudly She Served project is not only to inspire young women and young men, but also to highlight why women serve and to bring that to the forefront and also to encourage others to serve, maybe not in the military, but to encourage them to serve in some way.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:14:56 Right. And to me when I looked at some of the Veterans who you're highlighting in this project, I looked at some of their stories and you've talked about some of the women already, Dawn Halfaker, Tammy Duckworth, Kirstie Ennis, all of them. And there may be others that I'm missing in this, but all of them suffered pretty traumatic injuries that became amputees due to their injuries. But that's not the thing that's necessarily inspiring about that, because that's something that could happen to anybody who is serving. And that it's an unfortunate situation, but what's inspiring to me is how they handled it afterwards, their resiliency and their drive to keep going and not give up. It's really easy to just throw up your hands and quit and not keep moving forward; but that's not what they did.
Linda Maloney: 00:16:03 There was a great selection of women that are well-known versus just everyday heroes. And we have a couple of women that are not well-known at all. Like one in particular was one of our final additions to the portrait series, Nicole Semino and we thought it was really important to have a woman who was involved in the fight of COVID and she's a trauma nurse. And so she was one of our final portraits and she lives in Seattle. And I mean, she's an everyday hero, both in the military, she retired from the Coast Guard, and afterwards too.
Steve Alpert: 00:16:40 There's another woman in the series. Who's, you know, they're all my favorites. I can't pick them, but there's a woman named Naoko Hekeiji, she's very short stature. She's 5’1” maybe. And she joined the Iowa National Guard out of Des Moines basically to help her get through college. She wasn't expecting that she was ever going to get deployed or there would be a war or anything, but she did get called and did get deployed for a year in Iraq. She wasn't even tall enough to reach half of the height of one of the tires of this monster transport truck. And she would drive this transport truck in convoys across [Iraq]. I've seen pictures of these convoys across a vast desert; who knows what's out there at night. I mean, they were relatively unprotected. So every trip that she made was like, okay, let's see what happens. And she wrote a book, “All I Could Ever Be.” I think the name of the book is “All I Could Be.” It's a great book. I really enjoyed it.
Linda Maloney: 00:17:54 She's an actress. She also ran for Congress. She's a dynamo. Definitely not very soft-spoken.
Steve Alpert: 00:18:02 But you know, when you talk about what appeals to me as a want-to- be, I wish I were a Veteran is I think of the guy in the neighborhood, the girl next door, who one day goes down to the recruiting station, raises their arm and takes that oath. And they have no idea what they might be asked to do. They have no idea about the various missions that they're going to have to be part of and that they do it. And to me, that is so noble, that is so powerful. And yes, the Dawn Halfaker and the Kirstie Ennises,
Linda Maloney: 00:18:42 And Nicole McCaskey, she was the first one with Thunderbird pilot. She's one of the portraits.
Steve Alpert: 00:18:46 Bee Haydew World War II Wasp, who I just finished the last painting of; I'd love to tell you that story. Then there's a woman named Angel Hughes, who was in the Coast Guard, and she wanted to fly since she was 11 years old. She joined a flying club in high school, in East Orange, New Jersey, and all she ever wanted to do was fly. And she found her way into the Coast Guard. And she said, as a flier, she didn't want to hurt people. She wanted to save people. And that's exactly what she did. She flew a C 144. And she was based out of Mobile, Alabama. And she would pick up people in distress in the Gulf of Mexico. And you don't hear about her, you would never hear her name for anything.
Steve Alpert: 00:19:36 Now she's flying for UPS, she's retired. I had such good fortune to be able to meet all but two actually, because Bee Haydew turned 100 in December. But because of COVID, there was no way I was going to get to meet her. And then a woman named Louise Ran, who was a flight nurse in World War II. She passed about six or seven years ago. In fact, I was at her funeral, that's not the story, but I happened to be at her full honors funeral at Arlington, which was unforgettable. Anyway, it's been such a marvelous experience to meet all of these women and then when the paint gets up on the easel, then I get, this sounds really weird, but I get to spend some very, very intimate time with them because it's my job to tell their life story in that one fraction of a moment that the camera snaps a picture. So when I first started with Dawn, I'm not looking for smiley. I'm looking for the Mona Lisa moment; is she smiling? What is she thinking about? With Angel, I couldn't get Angel to stop smiling because she's just a smiler. So she's the only one I really got to see.
Linda Maloney: 00:20:56 Probably Arabia is a smiler too, Arabia Shanklin.
Steve Alpert: 00:21:01 The moments I'm looking for are moments when they're thinking, you know, that they're pensive, that there's some kind of reveal of their inner life. And I had a really odd experience with Bee Haydew, who was a hundred years old, December 15th. I started the canvas in early July and midway through the painting. I got an email from Nicole McCaskey who is friends with her telling me that a Bee had passed. So the painting was on an easel and she was alive when I began, but now she's no longer with us and everything about the painting changed in my mind. I still can't really put my finger on exactly what that change was, but it completely changed. And then to top it off, I was in contact with her daughter who had given me the photograph that I initially had worked from. And the daughter said, well, you know, I'm so glad that my mother is spending time with you.
Linda Maloney: 00:21:57 Oh, I love that. I love that.
Steve Alpert: I was so touched by that.
Linda Maloney: I love that.
Steve Alpert: 00:22:03 Yeah. It was amazing. And I did spend time with her. I felt her presence. I felt her, I felt her presence.
Linda Maloney: 00:22:13 And then we found the women differently. It's so interesting. Like there's not one way, you know, we found all the women, but it's interesting how they all kind of came together and how perfect the 12 are.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:22:27 Yeah. And you're right, each one of them have individual stories and not all of them are the types that are going to make the headlines. I think that’s an important thing to highlight too because most people who serve in the military, they're not making headlines. They're doing their job. They may be getting deployed, but they're not necessarily making these big Bin Laden raid headlines, where they're doing these big things, but they're still part of something that is bigger than themselves.
Linda Maloney: 00:23:08 And they're serving, they're serving our country. And that was one of the primary things we wanted to get across with the book that will be published next year when the portraits are unveiled. Each woman has her story in the book. And then Steve does an intro for each woman and details how he met her and just the whole process. And I have to say this, that Steve was probably one of the most beautiful writers I've ever read. I mean, he's really skilled. His stories about meeting the women and how they impacted him were just absolutely beautiful. I'm so excited to see the book come together.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:23:54 That's great. And so the book is part of this project, and it's going to highlight each of these Veterans and tell their stories and show the artwork that Steve, you've put together, right?
Steve Alpert: 00:24:09 I want to say, I want to credit Sarah Woodfin, who's our volunteer editor. She put together all the formal bios after she contacted all the different women and
Linda Maloney: 00:24:24 Navy Veteran; she’s a Navy Veteran. And let me tell you how I found her. So I am very active on LinkedIn. And so I have a very large network of Veterans, and I love it; that's my thing. I love networking with other Veterans. And so we were looking for a writer/editor, and we got several, probably like 10 different requests to join our team. And Sarah's not even on LinkedIn. Her husband is, and I didn't really know her husband, but he sent me a note. He said, my wife, Sarah would be perfect for this, but he said, but I don't think that she thinks she's qualified. And so Steve and I talked about it and I started to look, I reached out to her and started communicating with her. And we went with Sarah and it has been such a joy to read how she has taken all the information about each woman and put it together into a beautiful story. And, yeah, she's wonderful.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:25:28 Yeah, that's great. It's great that you've come together and use a lot of other Veterans to put this project together.
Steve Alpert: 00:25:40 Everybody's a Veteran except for me and Bob,
Linda Maloney: 00:25:45 None of our interns, so we're like half and half, probably half of them.
Steve Alpert: 00:25:49 I met a gentleman who was a retired Colonel in the Army and played golf with him a couple of years. And he turned to me, he knew about my background, and he said to me, you know what we call people like you. I said, what? He said, we call you fellow travelers, fellow travelers. I love that. That's my title. I'm a fellow traveler.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:26:10 That's funny. So part of the project's purpose is to raise awareness of some of the challenges that women face when transitioning to life outside of the military. So Linda, what was your transition like when you left the military, I know you said you started your family towards the end of your career. What was that transition like and what were some of the things that you hope to pass on through this project to other potential service members in the future?
Linda Maloney: 00:26:49 So my transition was relatively easy. Only because I knew I was going to get my military retirement, which is such a gift, and I would have my medical benefits. And so that was great. And I was married, my spouse had a good job. And so my transition out was pretty easy. And I really felt like I was transitioning to a new phase because I was just becoming a mom. And so I really only worked part time as a defense contractor for the first 10 years after I retired. So that was just ideal for me. I spoke at a Women Veterans conference. It's probably been over five years, and the title of my keynote was on the Veteran advantage.
Linda Maloney: 00:27:38 And I just encourage Veterans all the time to view it as an advantage and just speak up and say, you are a Veteran and be proud of it. I've always been proud to be a Veteran, and I think there's nothing greater than serving your country. And so, that's probably one thing that I would really encourage fellow Veterans to be really proud of it. And also that your skills that you have in the military are very transferrable. I think sometimes that we think as Veterans, “Oh, this doesn't really relate to a corporate job, for example, logistics, logistics in the corporate world is supply chain, you know? And so I think it's helpful when you are getting out, whether you're getting out after four years, 10 years, 20 years to put effort into civilianizing your resume, outsource it to someone that understands that and take those skills that you've learned, so many amazing skills that the military has taught you and revamp those or rewrite them so that they make sense to a corporate type of employer.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:28:49 Yeah, for sure. I think that's great advice to have, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand that their skills are transferable. If nothing else you did learn a job in the military, whatever your MOS, whatever your career was in the military, you learned that at some point you didn't necessarily know going in. So that makes you capable of learning something. So even if you want to get into a new career, you still have that ability to learn a new job.
Linda Maloney: 00:29:21 Absolutely. And take advantage of every single opportunity and benefit that the military offers. I mean, I went back and after I got out and took advantage of my GI bill and my VA benefits and got my MBA. And I mean, they paid me a monthly allowance. They pay for my MBA. I mean, it was such a great opportunity. I'm grateful for that.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:29:42 Yeah. And there are so many different benefits that are out there. Sometimes it's overwhelming to look into all of them, but they are out there. And if you do take advantage of some of the benefits that you've earned through your service, it can really give you a step up. And like you said, there is an advantage to being a Veteran in a lot of cases. So this project, I know it's not coming out as far as the unveiling for another year or so but in the meantime, what is it that you hope to achieve in terms of raising awareness and things like that in the meantime with this project?
Linda Maloney: 00:30:25 So we started our social media campaign. We're on all the major social media platforms. We started that back last May and our amazing team of interns create content for us and publish all that. And then we recently started a media outreach because our goal right now, we have to raise a lot of funds. And for that portrait unveiling and book launch there's a lot of parts that we have to put together. So right now we're reaching out to different folks to try to get sponsors and raise awareness about the project.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:31:07 Wonderful. And so anyone who's listening, who's inclined to help out and they want to help you with the fundraising, maybe they have some funds that they can donate themselves, or if they can help in some other way where can they go to reach out to you to help out in that way?
Linda Maloney: 00:31:29 Right. So we have not yet put any buttons or fundraising buttons or anything like that, crowd fundraising and things like that on our website, that will be the next step. But if there's anyone that has any connections to large corporate sponsors who think that our project would be a great partner within our organization, within a company, we would love to speak with them.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:31:57 Okay. Yeah. Wonderful. And where can they go to reach out to you?
Linda Maloney: 00:32:01 They could go to our website, they could go to www.proudlysheserved.com or also the email was [email protected] and they can also find us on LinkedIn. They can find us on Facebook, Instagram, we're on all of them.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:32:18 Okay, wonderful. Yeah. And I'll have links to all of those in the show notes too. So anyone who's listening now can easily find links to those in the show notes, and you can click over and get in touch with them, if you have any contacts that you want to share, or I'm sure in the near future, there will be some donation opportunities through the website and things like that as well. Linda, Steve anything else before we close,
Steve Alpert: 00:32:48 I just appreciate the opportunity to talk about our project and tell you a little bit about how I've been involved in the VSO space for a while and have a lot of friends in various organizations. And I remember when there was a tremendous influx of soldiers coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan. And there was such an outpouring and people were going to the airports and it was a very, very big thing. And we all knew that time would come when that would end when that public face would end. But we also knew that there would be a need to continue to support Veterans and thank them and acknowledge them for what they've done. And this is an extension of that effort. And even though, the coming home videos are not what they were years ago, and they were wonderful. I went to an honor flight. I was in the Reagan airport and I was just coming in and an honor flight was coming in and the outpouring, there was a band there, and there were people and people were crying. It was incredible. And all these old guys from World War II were in wheelchairs, their sons were wheeling them and it was really amazing. So, in some way I hope this is a continuance of that.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:34:25 Yeah. Because you're right. Eventually as some of that winds down, this project and other things like it hopefully do continue to carry forward that patriotism, that American pride and things like that going forward.
Steve Alpert: 00:34:43 You know, to me, it's the best of who we are. It's the best of who we are and what we have to offer. And I very strongly believe in the American dream, and I am super proud to be born into this country and live in this country at this particular time. And so for me, it's just part of my personal mission.
Scott DeLuzio: 00:35:07 That’s wonderful. Linda and Steve it has been a pleasure speaking with you today. I really do appreciate your time and sharing everything that you're doing with this project. Thank you again, we'll have to have you back on maybe closer to the unveiling date of some of these portraits and we'll talk about it then.
Steve Alpert: 00:35:28 Thank you. Okay.
Linda Maloney: Thanks, Scott.
Scott DeLuzio: All right. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to check out more episodes or learn more about the show, you can visit our website DriveOnPodcast.com. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @DriveOnPodcast.