Wrestling To Help PTSD

Drive On Podcast
Drive On Podcast
Wrestling To Help PTSD

Jan Ohrstrom is an Army veteran and former pro-wrestler who has worked to help veterans who are struggling with PTSD through his documentary called The Valhalla Club.

Links & Resources


Scott DeLuzio:    00:00:00    Thanks for tuning into the Drive On Podcast where we're focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community, whether you're a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or family member, on this podcast we'll share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I'm your host, Scott DeLuzio. And now let's get on with the show.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:00:22    Hi everJane. Welcome back to the Drive On Podcast. Today my guest is Jan Ohrstrom. Jan is a creator of the Valhalla club, a former pro wrestler and an Army veteran and he has a pretty cool story. I wanted to get him on the show and talk a little bit about what he's been up to and how he's out there helping out veterans with the projects that he's been working on. So, why don't I get out of the way and Jan, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll get into what you're up to.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:01:00    Scott, thank you very much for having me on the show. It means a lot. I love doing stuff with other veterans. My name is Jan Ohrstrom. I am anArmy vet. It seems like it was a long time ago. I was in from 02-06. I was with the first infantry division and stationed out of Germany. I went to Iraq and I was there for 13 months. I came home and, like many, I had a pretty bad PTSD from the experience out there. And really, my life was going out of control until I was able to get grounded and find some mental health outlets, which led to the creation of a documentary called the Valhalla club, which can be seen right now on Amazon prime. And it's a film about three Army combat veterans that use pro-wrestling to deal with PTSD. And it's been covered internationally, which is really cool. And when I'm not doing that, I'm a dad and I run a bourbon.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:02:10    Awesome. Yeah. And so you definitely sound like you have your hands full with all the things you have going on. Let's talk a little bit more about the documentary, what it's all about, where you got the idea for it and how that came to life.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:02:27    Yeah, absolutely. So when I got home, when I was in Iraq, I was a 50 caliber machine gunner, although I did not enlist as an infantry or any combat MOS, I was a mechanic. I got moved over there for the deployment and, in 04 and Beijing and all that, we were all over the place. We saw some really, really gnarly stuff that messed with a lot of us. And when we came home, I, along with my dad, had a hard time adjusting to everything and I turned to alcohol a lot before the service and after I was a pro wrestler, that was my childhood dream. And, I was doing pro wrestling the best I could, but I was drinking expensive amounts. And I was just not dealing with what I went through well, combined with people that either stayed in or got out with me, but they started passing away.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:03:27    I lost a friend, he re-enlisted to go back to Iraq and unfortunately a couple of friends took their lives and a couple of friends that just had random or whatever. And, and when he had this unresolved war going on in your head, it just kind of threw gas on it. And then on top of all that, I was not in a healthy relationship with a woman and threw these things in a pot, and it ended up with me drinking 20 beers a night every night. And I was just not happy, you know and how that turned into the Valhalla club is that I reached out to the VA and I was hesitant at first. I'm not going to lie because at first the VA just wanted to put me on pills.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:04:13    And I had a really big issue with that. There were a lot of excuses, for those who didn't follow veteran issues from 05 until about 2012, there was a really big issue with VA over prescribing opiates and medications to veterans. And it led to a lot of either suicide by cop or accidental overdoses. And it was a terrible, absolutely unacceptable thing. And so I was really hesitant to do that. And then, it got to the point where I just wanted to go to therapy and talk to somebody and try to turn my life around. And it was starting to affect my relationship with my daughter and I just had a newborn son. So I'm trying to be a better man for them. And so I started going to therapy with the VA and we centered on stuff like maybe being creative and being a pro wrestler.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:05:03    So I started focusing on being the best pro wrestler I could. And a lot of people, I should say I've been asked quite a bit. “Well, how does pro-wrestling help you with this stuff?” Well, pro wrestling is a different kind of athleticism and it's very hard as they say to be incredibly athletic in the ring when you're drinking all the time. So the drinking cut down to pretty much nothing. You know, I had to eat healthy, rather than constantly let my thoughts control me, I was controlling and I was going to therapy sharing my thoughts. I'm putting a lot of my mental effort into being a good dad, to be the best pro wrestler, writing down monologues for when I have to promo, or trying to build a business or sell shirts, being creative with it, and being constructive.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:05:53    During this time though, I met quite a few people that were telling me, “my uncle was over there. My brother was over there, or I was over there, nice to meet you.” And they love the story of the war veteran coming back to pro wrestling and stuff. And I thought looking at all this stuff, I'm like, there's a story here. And I think there's some way we can help some people who are suffering with their own mental health battles. And so I started outlining as well, but I didn't want it to be just about me. I wanted it to be about everybody. And so I sat on it for like a year, year and a half until I came across other people in the pro wrestling industry that also had been to combat and had similar stories.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:06:36    And so I went and I pitched this idea to them and they agreed to do it. And next thing you know, we were filming, we were covering different shows in Texas and us and our families and all that stuff. And giving a no-nonsense take about what we went through and all that. And then the whole Vahalla club was created. And I was very fortunate because our first show where we aired the documentary in Waco, Texas was sold out. And then we were getting covered by Univision and Sports Illustrated and Rolling Stone, Good Morning America, a whole bunch of places, Vice was another one. It just helped spread this conversation about mental health, especially for veterans that I think we as a country need to have. I think we're getting better at it as a whole, but there's still some progress that you made because it's just been an issue that has been neglected for so long.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:07:36    So we've done a film and we got a lot of exposure out of it. And now, we're in the process of trying to make a feature full length movie. If any of your fans have seen the movie, the wrestler, it's going to be kind of like that. It's going to be a drama. It's going to be an interesting take on readjustment and pro wrestling. We got the scripts submitted to a couple of film festivals and it's getting pretty positive responses. So hopefully that avenue opens up to actually make the film, but we released it in 2018. So it's been a three-year rundown. It's been a very interesting three years of interaction with people with similar stories and telling us what the documentary means to them. And even at pointing people in the right direction who need help, it's been all very rewarding, and very proud of what that film has done. 

Scott DeLuzio:    00:08:33    I mean, I think you hit on a key point there that opens up this conversation about mental health. And one of the things that I like to do on this podcast is interview different guests who are doing different things, creative, innovative things to help open up that conversation about mental health. And one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on this show and talk about what you're doing with the Valhalla club and everything else that you're doing is because in my mind, I never would have thought about wrestling as an outlet for PTSD or anything like that. But for you, it was something that worked and for a number of other veterans, it's also something that works for you for a variety of reasons. And you touched on something being athletic.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:09:27    And if that's something that you want to do, you probably can't spend all night drinking and doing the unhealthy things that a lot of people do to cope with the PTSD and everything else. So you know, by talking to people like you, this opens up a whole other world of possibilities to the veterans who are listening to this show and might be suffering, maybe never even considered getting into wrestling, even though they may love it. And they may want to do something like that, but they never even considered it as a way to help themselves get out of that dark place that they might be sitting in right now. So I think that this is a perfect example of that creative, innovative approach to solving this problem, this mental health crisis that we face among amongst veterans and opening up this conversation like we are, what is it that you're doing that maybe could be applied to some other athletic event and how does that help other people and I think that that kind of conversation is something that we need to start having and, open up to these other possibilities that maybe aren't just throwing pills at a solution or at a problem, or just sitting there, talking to someone, because some people quite frankly, are just not comfortable with the conversations that happen, you know?  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:10:54    And so other things like this that's wrestling and everything else, I think it's a perfect way to get involved with the different approaches to solving this mental health crisis. 

Jan Ohrstrom:  Well said, Yeah, absolutely. 

Scott DeLuzio:    00:11:11    So, you have the Valhalla club and while that's out there you have this documentary that's out there and the movie that's out there and all of these things are there, they're really out there and helping out veterans. You also mentioned another, the movie aspect of it.  What goes into getting something like that, getting a script written and all that, because I'm sure there's some people out there who, through the experiences that they've had, might have a movie in them, but they maybe don't even realize that that’s a possibility.  I just released a book, it took me years to realize, “Hey, I have a book in me. I can put this out there and maybe writing a book might be easier than putting a movie out there, but I'm almost positive that there's other veterans out there who, through their experiences and through the things that they've gone through, they might have a movie inside of them.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:12:18    So I'm interested to hear what the process is to go through creating this movie, everything from the script and the filming and all that kind of stuff. Like what is the process and what was that like for you?  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:12:33    It was actually a very, very good question. It was a whole new process for me and it was one that definitely took patients that you can't rush something like this. One thing with me is I gotta stand by whatever I create. And so if it takes extra time to do it right by my standards, I'll do it like that. And for anybody who's thinking about writing a script and stuff like that, you have your story element, but then you have all the supporting elements that go into it, and for us, I was writing this with Brad, who's the guy who produced the Valhalla club documentary, one of the hurdles I had was these secondary characters that were pushing the story along, because the story is based on true events, but it still has to get pushed along.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:13:27    And so the secondary characters in here, it's coming across, how are we going to do this? Right? Because you can't just have a standard dialogue of X, Y, and Z. Like you have to give these characters life. And one thing that I have a pet peeve about is when you see different movies about veterans and the military and you could tell that they didn't do research on this kind of stuff. And it's just one of those things that makes me “eye roll.” So when I was doing this, I was like, okay, we gotta make all this stuff not fake. We can't build these corny lines in there. We gotta have elements and flavor and just stuff. And I think for the whole entire script, I think we did four or five rewrites of it to get it how we want it.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:14:17    Because every time when we did the rewrite, something else changed and we're like, okay, this doesn't add up now. So we want to go back through and rewrite the rewrite.  The whole script is 147 pages. So going back over that multiple times, page by page and making sure it all works is a little tedious at times. So what I would tell your listeners is, if you have this story and you want to tell it, and I do believe there's people out there that may or may not click to them yet, that they are sitting on an amazing story that should get written or publish a movie or whatnot. But tell it to your standard. Like, don't just do a rough draft or is it good enough? I go back through it because this is going to represent you.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:15:02    And then tell it when you do that though. Now the interesting stuff begins because when you start submitting it, people are going to want to give their own feedback. People are going to put their own twist on it. And then it's like, you gotta have that creative control of are you going to take these critiques into advice, are you going to be willing to give up rights? So there's a whole different element. Now it starts coming into it. One of my big concerns, I'd always been very protective of the Valhalla club in particular, is because I own the rights to it. I've never put it in a position where it can be spun, politically. And because mental health and veterans, I feel transcends everything, it's like music.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:15:48    It transcends everything, this is not a right wing issue, left wing issue. It's an American issue. And so when you're making a movie and stuff like that, people are producing are going to want to put their own spin on this and change stuff. And you just gotta be prepared to know what you want, what you will accept, what you want and the cost of doing that. One of the things with the Valhalla club is that we were very clear about that. We made it about the veterans because it's the men and women who go out there. We don't take shots at any side. It's just seriously about the veterans and those affiliated with the veterans and see the changes and see them trying to deal with stuff and veterans, other people who had experienced it and get it, and other people who don't have experience and are trying to get it and other people don't experience it and just don't get it. You know, we had those elements because that's what we feel is vital. So for your listeners who are writing, just stand by what your values are with it and write it and give your seal of approval and then be prepared to defend it. Or at the very least know what you're willing to compromise on. If you want to get this story out there, then go forward and have fun.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:17:05    Yeah. I think that the biggest key is having fun with it, enjoy the process and going through it. But you're right. You know, when other people start reading through your script or your manuscript or whatever it is that you're putting out there, they're going to offer their feedback and their opinions and whatnot on that. But sometimes that stuff is good. It's positive to get those kinds of feedback because they may have made that mistake before. And just like anything else that you've done in life, if you look to the people who are more experienced, they may be able to offer you some advice that will help you out along your way and make life that much easier. Or you allow your script to be able to be picked up by somebody or whatever the case may be there.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:17:56    But like you said, also know what you're willing to compromise on because there's some things that I've watched plenty of military movies that are just so cringey with the way they talk and things like that. Right. You know, if you're not willing to compromise on that stuff, just know that, and say that upfront. It's like, Hey, look, this is not how we talk. And that's not how this movie is going to go. We're gonna keep it the way I want it. Or it's just going to be a no-go. And I think that, that makes a lot of sense keeping that integrity of what you want it to be, makes a whole lot of sense, too. I mean, all of this goes back to that conversation and the more people who are putting out their story and opening up the world to what we've experienced, whether it's in combat or in our military service, or even just our day-to-day lives it helps the general public to understand what it is that's going on in the minds of these service members who are veterans who are struggling with mental health.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:19:09    That's part of the reason why I wrote my story, in my book. And you know, I feel like it's gotten a lot of good, positive attention as well, just like you were saying that yours has gotten some great feedback as well, but I think it's opening up eyes to what's going on in the military community. And that's an important thing to do. I think just educating the public so that we are aware of what's going on in the military community.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:19:40    Oh, absolutely. Man. Yeah, absolutely. May I ask, your book, how many pages is it?  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:19:45    It's just over 200 pages. It's like 206 or something like that.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:19:49    Did you feel when you were writing yours, did you feel like you could've fit more of the story in, did you feel like that was a good stopping point? Or did you feel like this is part one of the next step?  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:20:02    You know, it's funny, I had that similar question asked to me a few weeks ago and you know, the book is a part of my life, right. And clearly my life is still ongoing. And so I feel like there always could be another chapter that could be added. And I had to just take a look at it and say, okay, here's where I cut it off. And I say, okay, this is what this book is about. And I had to define the scope of what the book was going to be about. And so that way I didn't end up having a story that went on until I'm 65 years old or whatever and I just keep adding and adding and adding to the story because I could certainly do that. And I ended up with an 800 page book or whatever. No one's going to read through the whole thing because some of it may just not be all that interesting.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:20:48    But I didn't necessarily have a page number in mind when I started writing it and saying, okay, I would need to have at least 200 pages or I need to have whatever. I just knew, okay, this is the story I want to tell. This is how I want to tell it. And you know, the only reason why I got over those 200 pages is because at the very end, as I was about to release the book, the book that I wrote had to do with Afghanistan and my experiences over there. I decided to add a little bit of information, my thoughts on the current situation that was going on in Afghanistan with the withdrawal and everything like that. So, I did add a little bit, it still stayed within the scope of the book because it had to do with Afghanistan and the situation over there.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:21:39    I didn't talk about the situation while I was over there and everything. So it wasn't like I strayed from that. I didn't feel like I needed to have a certain predefined length for the book or anything like that. It was really just a matter of getting the story out there that I wanted to have told. And perhaps I could have added more stories to it. There's other things that may have happened. And every once in a while, someone will bring up something like, oh yeah, you remember that this happened back in that time. And I was like, oh yeah, maybe I could have added that to the book, but you know, it is what it is. And you know, I'm happy with how it came out and what was included in it. And I think that's kind of important because it's my story, from my perspective. It's not another person's story from their perspective. And if they want to write a book, they can, they're more than welcome to do that. You know?  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:22:34    That quote actually you just knocked out of the park. It's your story to be told and there's probably some people out there I know there are, for a fact I've met these people. They're like, well I didn't do anything about Iraq or they're like, well these people already wrote about Iraq. Why should I write about Iraq? That's their story about Iraq? That's their thing, you aren't them, you could end up starting to write stuff down and all of a sudden you're like, oh, I forgot about this. And next thing you know, you have this brilliant memoir experience that you're like, oh, I have something? And you can put it out there and it can touch somebody's life. But the thing is that you just said it, don't shortcut yourself. Other people have their own stories, but you have your story and it's absolutely worth creating your own story and putting that out there. It's just, you never know what's going to happen with it.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:23:30    I've said this before to other people, but when you take a look back at previous generations, the other wars that have been fought are the world war one and civil war and previous wars all the way back through our country's history. And you look at the stories that came out from there you had very few, or if any Private is writing a book or about their experiences, because it was just so cost prohibitive back then to be able to do that. And a lot of them, they didn't have access to writing these stories and there were no movies back then. And so they had no scripts to write or things like that. So it was very hard for someone to tell their story other than verbally and just telling it to their family or their friends or whoever.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:24:20    And so then their story only lived in the minds of the people that it was told to. And it died with them just as it did with the original person who told the story. And so there's a lot of missing pieces to the story of, let's say the civil war or world war one or whatever, it does have a lot of missing pieces because there are so many individual people who fought in those wars who maybe just never told their story. And so in this day and age, I mean, if you have a computer, you can write a book. Like it's not that hard to do that. And even if you don't have a computer, you can go to a library or something like that, and you can write a book there and you can do it there.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:25:05    And it's so much easier now than it ever was before. You don't need to go through traditional publishing. You can self publish your book and you can have a great looking book with a great copy and everything like that for little to no money out of pocket. And so there are people who are veterans of these more recent wars who have stories in them as simple as they might be. Even if you didn't see combat, you still went to go do something for your country, talk about your story. And that helps give a better picture. And it's one more piece to the big overall puzzle of what happened over there and when we have everybody's perspectives laid out, then we'd get a better idea of what it was that actually happened over there. You know?  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:25:53    Absolutely well said.   

Scott DeLuzio:    00:25:56    So you also mentioned at the beginning, you talked about the bourbon company that you have as well. Talk a little bit about that. How did you get into that and what's that all about?  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:26:14    Yeah, so the bourbon company came from a side business of mine, as I mentioned, like being creative. And one of the things I did for a while, just as a hobby, the small business stuff was I was creating and designing t-shirts. And one of my designs caught the attention of a distiller, and we were talking about stuff and I had made a comment that I've always found fascinating the whole whiskey, a bourbon business, and a long story short that led to a lot of talks about going in together and doing a collaboration on a bourbon. And when we got it going, and I was kinda thinking about how I wanted to, how I wanted to approach this much in a similar vein of Valhalla club. I wanted it to be something of a positive note.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:27:08    And, so as I was thinking about everything. I was thinking about imagining a man or woman enjoying an evening of achievement. You know, you got the promotion that you were going to get, or you won the game people said you were going to lose or whatever. I went down the rabbit hole on this because it hit me personally, because so many times in my life, when I was doing something, to include enlisting in the Army, I was always told that I could do it. I was told I wouldn't last four weeks in the Army. I was told that the Valhalla club wouldn’t take off. I was told being a pro wrestler was stupid and all this stuff. When I succeeded at it, it made me kind of like, not only really proud of myself for going through that, but it's like something to celebrate.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:27:54    So you know, me being a Viking and then taking all this stuff into consideration, I was like, well they say, when you have victory the best thing to do is drink the blood of your enemies. So I was like, that's it, that's going to be the name of the bourbon. And then we went with that and we started moving forward with it. And I consider it a victory bourbon. In fact, on the bottle itself, I give a little note to the customers here. And I say, think about how far you've come, how many people said long hours, the grind, sacrifice. And now you're breaking records, smashing goals, chasing dreams, and fighting forever. And it's just I want this bourbon when somebody does something crazy cool in their lives, especially in the face of adversity that they're having a drink and reflecting, and they're drinking my bourbon and proud of themselves because I know I am rooting for people to succeed.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:28:56    And it drives me up the wall when I see people try to hold other people back. So we got that going about two years ago. And we were only in the state of Texas for a long time, until three weeks ago, three weeks ago we signed a deal with a speakeasy. And so now we're carried in 26 states that you can buy online through our website, bloodofmyenemiesbourbon.com. And if you're one of the 26, you can order it and they'll ship it to you and you can enjoy it for yourself. It's a nice little bourbon. I tell people who are not too familiar with bourbons and whiskeys that if you like bulleit bourbon, it's in that same palette, it's pretty smooth. And it's not anything crazy. It's just a good, good bourbon to drink and enjoy.   

Scott DeLuzio:    00:29:43    Well, that sounds wonderful. And I'm hoping that I'm in one of those 26 states, because if I will be getting myself a bottle of that bourbon to enjoy, as I'm looking at the victory of releasing this first book, which I know took so much effort to do. And the way you describe it, it feels like I need to celebrate it a little bit. So, this definitely will be something I'll be looking into, but we will have links to everything that we talked about today, your bourbon, the Valhalla club and everything else that we talked about, I'll have links to all of that in the show notes.  Is there anything else that you wanted to add as far as places people can go to, to get in touch with you for any of the stuff that we talked about, or websites, social media, anything like that?  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:30:36   Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you, you should be celebrating, the book is a big achievement, but let me ask you this, if I pick it up, will that come from you or from a warehouse? Because I like to get an autograph.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:30:50    Well, I actually have two options for getting the book. You can go to Amazon just like anybody else and buy a copy of the book there. The book is called Surviving Son. You just search for that. You can get it there though. Those are not autographed on Amazon because it's all print on demand through Amazon. And so they'll print it, ship it out directly. But if you go to survivingsonbook.com, you can order an autographed copy and I will sign it to whoever you want it to. You know, if it's a gift for somebody, or if it's for yourself, you just let me know who you want it to be signed to. And I'll do that. And I'll get a copy out to whoever. So yeah, survivingsonbook.com and there's also links there to Amazon. If that's just easier to remember, you can go check that out and grab a copy from there.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:31:43    Awesome. I am absolutely going to do that. I love support and stuff like this. If anybody needs to get a hold of me, you can go on Facebook or Instagram and find the Valhalla club, or if you are a fan of the permanent whiskeys, you can find Blood of My Enemies bourbon on both Facebook and Instagram. And as a closing, I tell people this quite a bit like people who are still on the fence about taking the jump or whatever for their mental health, because let's be real. It is an uphill climb. It is a battle, it's not a night and day thing. You have to really apply yourself, have some self discipline and all the while underlining that you are a good person. There's people out there that love and support you.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:32:33    And you know, all this is going to be okay at the end. But I tell people one thing I've learned from my lessons, I learned by doing stuff the wrong way, but like 10 seconds of insanity can literally change your life. When I was in Iraq and 04 WWE was doing their tribute to the troops that came through my base. And as I was talking to them, I got in my head. I was like, you know what? Just pitch yourself to them. Maybe they'll give you a shot, whatever, and in 10 seconds I went up to one guy, I introduced myself, I said, I was a pro wrestler. I joined the Army, after the military I'm going back to wrestling. Can I please talk to somebody about getting an opportunity with your company? Long story short, the person I was talking to you was the person under Vince McMahon, the guy who owns WWE.  

Jan Ohrstrom:    00:33:19    So it was a pretty high up executive. And we talked for like 45 minutes after that. And then he gave me his cell phone number and he goes, look, I will give you a tryout and we'll see how it goes. And cut to a year later when I'm out of service that I'm backstage on Monday night, Raw, like standing next to Vince McMahon looking through the curtain of 39,000 people out in an arena. And this is something that four-year-old, Jan watching Hulk Hogan and Dusty Rose could not even fathom that he would be doing one day and all of that, because I'm just like, fuck it, 10 seconds, sanity, just put yourself out there and go for it.  

Jan Ohrstrom:     00:34:03    Let me get into something kind of stellar, just make a decision and I constantly get better. So when I tell people to go for it.  

Scott DeLuzio:    00:34:29    Yeah, definitely go for it. 10 seconds of just putting yourself out there and trying to get in touch with the right person. You never know what could come of it. Jan, thank you very much for coming on the show, sharing your story and what you're up to helping out veterans. I really do appreciate it. Thank you for your time and keep doing what you're doing. I think it's a lot of great work.  

Jan Ohrstrom  00:34:55    Yeah.  Thanks.

Scott DeLuzio:    00:35:04    Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to check out more episodes or learn more about the show, you can visit our website DriveOnPodcasts.com. We're also on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube at DriveOnPodcast.


  1. Ellen Ohrstrom on 9 December 2021 at 10:43

    Hello Scott, I’m not a big podcast listener, but this one was very close to my heart. I truly enjoyed listening to you and in turn you listening to Jan. Good Luck with your book.
    Joy and Peace
    Mom Ohrstrom

    • Scott DeLuzio on 9 December 2021 at 10:52

      Thank you, Ellen. I appreciate your kind words.

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