Episode 362 Kristof Morrow Military Service, Mental Health, and Healing Transcript

This transcript is from episode 362 with guest Kristof Morrow.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and today my guest is Kristof Morrow. Kristof served in the Navy and he’s here today to discuss how his shipmate’s suicide has influenced his life and We’re going to talk about that a little bit more in just a minute, but first, [00:02:00] uh, I want to welcome you to the show, Kristof I’m really glad to have you here.

Kristof Morrow: Like I said earlier, it’s very kind of you to have me. Thank you so much for accepting Shakespeare.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, so you reached out, uh, probably a couple of weeks ago, um, and you, uh, shared a little bit about your story with me and I, I thought it was important to be able to share, uh, you know, what you have experienced and what you’ve gone through and, uh, and everything. So let’s Take it back a bit and, um, talk about like what got you into the Navy in the first place.

What motivated you to join the Navy?

Kristof Morrow: I always, I, Shakespeare, I always considered, um, the military, uh, outside of like being a doctor or something, some degree oriented, something that requires a great deal of education that the only, the other thing, uh, that people could see that I, cause I come from a poor family, like [00:03:00] join, like, uh, joining the military.

Uh, my grandfather was in the military. My father was not. Um, and, uh, and I always considered it a solemn thing. Um, I considered, uh, the notion of like camaraderie to be one of the, one of the rare things we’ve invented, um, that ennoble us.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah, and I noticed just through talking with folks who, um, who’ve been in the military that camaraderie is one of the things that is like the biggest thing that they miss upon leaving the military, right? Um, it’s, it’s just such a bonding experience.

Um, You know, even, even just for the, even just for

the short,

Kristof Morrow: know, like there’s layers to that bonding. There’s like, you know, like there’s degrees of bonding. You start when bootcamp, it’s like, you’re all afraid. And then you kind of. And then it’s like, as you go [00:04:00] through your service, it’s different, it changes, um,

Scott DeLuzio: it does change. Yeah. And like you said, like in bootcamp, you are all afraid because most people don’t know what to expect when they walk into bootcamp, because it’s, it’s one of those things that you’ve never done before, right? Is that fear of

the unknown. And then you got this big drill sergeant or drill instructor, whoever, you know, who’s.

Just down your throat. They’re, they’re, they’re in your face and they’re, they’re, they’re going to

whoop your ass. Yeah. Oh yeah, confident. Sure. Yeah. That’s one word for it.

Kristof Morrow: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Um, and so, so you have that experience and you know, everyone is in the same boat when you, you, you step off that bus or whatever, you, you walk into basic training, you, you don’t have a clue what you’re walking into.

Even if

you’ve known somebody else, Who experienced it before and shared with you what their experience was like. That’s their experience and your experience are going to be totally different, uh, no matter what, you know, and everybody, no matter [00:05:00] who you ask, they had it harder.

Kristof Morrow: oh god, yeah. Yeah, I honestly, yeah, I remember once we made the roof sweat, I think. That, that was the only thing, that was the only day I ever think I was like, all right, this isn’t fun.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

Kristof Morrow: The rest of the time is a lot of sitting. It’s a lot more sitting around than people realize. I think, you know?

Scott DeLuzio: I mean there is a lot, there’s a, there’s a lot of, especially earlier on there’s a lot of that classroom type stuff because you

need to crawl before you can walk and they’re

not going to hand you a gun and tell you to go shoot it before they tell you which way to point it, you know, um, yeah, yeah. A lot, I bet you we, we could probably come up with a lot of crazy stories from all of that.

But, um, so let’s, let’s fast forward a little bit. So you were a corpsman in the Navy, right?

Kristof Morrow: Yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. So what, what was that experience like? You know, being, uh, you, you mentioned, you know, there’s There’s, uh, you know, other fields that you, you could be, you know, exploring [00:06:00] that need a high degree of, uh, you know, education like doctors

and things like that, but, um, you know, the, the military basically provides you the, uh,

education experience that you need.

What was that experience like?

Kristof Morrow: and the permission,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

Kristof Morrow: which is crucial, which is a component crucial to the, to that equation. Um, cause I remember like, but it’s really funny. I remember when I first showed up to the, uh, my first hospital, my first duty station in a Naval Air Station, Jacksonville. I was at the base hospital, and we just, a bunch of, uh, corpsmen just came back from, uh, over, they were in Middle East, and they were deployed, and then they got back, and like, I, when you, I guess when you get back from a deployment, there’s like a senior, you have like a senior mentality, like, no one can mess with you, leave me alone, I just got back from a deployment, you know, and like, generally people respect that, even like you’re commanding, like, people in command and stuff, so, we were training on how to insert IVs again. Um, and because I guess they had hangovers so that we, [00:07:00] they needed to get, um, a couple of normal saline bags. Um, and I remember a lieutenant who was a nurse on the floor, he walked into the room and he just kind of looked at us and he looked at the guys who just got back from deployment and he was like,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,

Kristof Morrow: the door and leave.

We were definitely wasting medical supplies, but, you know,

Scott DeLuzio: Well, I mean, it’s good training, right? I

mean, you gotta keep that up, right? You

Kristof Morrow: yeah, it actually is. I mean, it is, it is, it’s definitely relevant to what we were doing, um, but it’s just, it’s funny the attitude that they had about it, like, we’re good, we’re gonna do this, and no one, no one’s gonna say anything.

Um, I, I actually, for a long time, I joined, I joined originally, uh, I wanted to be a corpsman, uh, cause I saw, I know this might sound silly to some, but Saving Private Ryan, um, there’s a scene when they’re doing the Beaches of Normandy, and there’s a, there’s a, I don’t know if it’s the army, but I think it was Marines that actually, Uh, uh, was it in the Marines that, that invaded Normandy?

Like the beaches [00:08:00] or there’s several, there was a bunch of places as a bunch of, uh, different branches,

Scott DeLuzio: there’s a bunch

Kristof Morrow: I don’t, I don’t see in the movie, I’m not sure if it’s army or Marines, but the point is that, uh, that the corpsman or the medic that was, uh, under fire, you know, it was like, what are they called?

The hedgehogs or whatever. Uh, and still doing their duty. I was, I was inspired by that, like, uh, immensely. Um, Yeah, it was very profound for me. I don’t know why.

Scott DeLuzio: well, I mean, that, I think that right there just says a lot about your character and your, uh, you know, willingness to, to sacrifice, uh, you know, for somebody else, because that scene, I know what scene you’re talking about. Um, I mean, that was not a, uh, A scene that, that a lot of people would be like, Oh yeah, you know, sign me up for that.

Sign me up for going, storming the beaches of Normandy and, and

getting shot at and, and have my, you know, the, the guy who was standing next to me on the, the landing ship have his [00:09:00] legs blown off and, you know, all this stuff, like,

nobody wants to sign up for that. Like, that’s, that’s pretty awful. Um, but, you know, that’s, that’s something that, that inspired you, which to me, that’s, that’s like, Okay, you know, that talks to your character as far as, uh, you know, a person like what you’re, you were willing to put out there, you know, in terms of your service.


Kristof Morrow: Well, I thought it was, I mean, I was inspired to that. I wanted to achieve that, I think, uh, because I know that it’s real, you know? Um, I’ve heard enough stories now to know that, you know, uh, Corman have done that, um, Army medic, all those, they’ve done that over and again.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah. And,

and even that.

Kristof Morrow: in the U. S.

military, actually. Corman.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, even that, that movie itself from what I’ve heard in there, like the opening, I don’t know, the premiere, whatever they call it. I don’t know. I’m not in Hollywood. I don’t know. I don’t know these terms or whatever, but it doesn’t matter. Uh, when they first started, uh, showing the movie, they brought [00:10:00] in a group of, uh, veterans who actually were there at, at

Kristof Morrow: Oh, man.

Scott DeLuzio: they were those people and they brought them in

and there was not a dry eye. In the place. And they all

said that like, that’s what happened. They captured it about as closely as a movie can capture it without physically being there recording it as it’s happening. Uh, but that’s what happened.

And, um, that, that just told me like, holy crap, that is about, you know, as real as a movie can make it. And,

um, you know, it was intense, you know? So

Kristof Morrow: yeah. He’s quite thorough, Steven Spielberg. Like, when they were doing, uh, filming Schindler’s List, they had, like, therapists and all kinds of people, like, for everybody. The whole crew was, like, because of, like, a lot of those people’s parents, like, and grandparents, like Yeah, so it’s it’s the same, it’s the same.

Like he’s a very thorough or so seen that Saving private Ryan. I knew that it was a, like a, a, a reflection of, of truth. Like what I was seeing [00:11:00] was not something decorated or made or, or made. It wasn’t glorified. Um, and it was like, and everyone, the intent of everyone that was involved in this project saw it as a very, uh, regrettable.

Yeah, that’s the thing, like, War and people dying and that sort of thing and fascism and yadda yadda yadda. Yeah

Scott DeLuzio: yeah. So. So you, you basically started off as a, as a corpsman, right? You, that, that was like, um, your, your, your first, uh, you know, coming out of basic training, you, you went into

your training as a corpsman, right?

Kristof Morrow: to course school and then I went to my first duty station, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Awesome. Um, So, so you, what was your time like in, in the Navy and, and where did you go and, and, you

Kristof Morrow: Actually, it was fairly brief, honestly, because I, Shakespeare. Because I have, obviously I have Tourette’s. I developed Tourette’s. And it was like, I had a choice between like, getting out [00:12:00] Like being, um, a boatman’s mate, basically just going around and sh like shoveling, doing duty stuff. Like being, basically being on the duty roster for my whole life.

for like, for my whole, my whole service. And I was like, nah. Um, so, uh, ’cause I couldn’t do my job anymore. I’m not, I’m not deployable. You can’t deploy if you Shakespeare, if you Don’t even have to elaborate on that. So, yeah, so it was over a year, but then, uh. And, but the thing is that like it was still rife with tragedy, like it was pretty, pretty lame.

I, I did, I lost a shipmate and I still think about him a lot, um,

Scott DeLuzio: so so you, you had mentioned that to me in your, in your email when we were kind of going back and forth and getting you scheduled for this episode, this interview. Um, so tell us about your shipmate and, and, uh, you know, who, Who he was and, uh, you know, what that loss meant to [00:13:00] you, uh, when, when he, when he took his life.

Kristof Morrow: Well, um, um, his name was, uh, LS1 Tom Murphy. He loved Adele before everyone else did. Like he showed me, I swear to God, he showed me Adele. He’s like, this girl’s gonna be super famous, and I was like, bro, okay. I was like, but I believed him too, because she was incredibly talented. I was like, holy crap, though.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: He had a, his wife was German, um, and she’s a really lovely lady, and then, uh, he, he, he was just, he was very, um, he was like, what would happen if you mixed, like, a New Yorker with, um, With somebody with more anxiety than they know what to do with. Like in a good way. He was very, he was very like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It was really funny, dude. He was a really funny guy. I don’t know. Um, yeah, uh,

Scott DeLuzio: [00:14:00] And so, and so that loss, uh, you know, when, when he, when he took his life, um, you know, how did that impact you and how did that, um, kind of affect

you? Wow.

Kristof Morrow: Um, the story of is, is actually pretty awful. Um, like, cause I, it, the way it all began, it was like December 21st, I think, or 22nd, and we were still, everybody was still on base. Nobody had gone on Christmas leave yet. um, we had this like, department meeting at his request or something.

We were meeting and he wanted to have a briefing on suicide during the holidays. He said it increases during the holidays. He’s the one that said it. So we did it. He’s there. He’s there too. He’s present. And the thing is that like, he, he wanted us to read This story aloud about this man who was [00:15:00] really, um, suicidal, and I think he dealt with chronic suicidal ideation.

He, uh, he tried to jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and, uh, this man ended up, um, becoming completely paralyzed from the neck down, uh, consequently. And so, as the person is reading this story aloud to everybody, instead of offering, like, sympathy and understanding, they were laughing. That’s the story. And I’m the lowest ranked person in the room, so I didn’t say anything.

And I really regret that now, because he was standing right there, listening to everybody laugh at this dude, who was so distraught, that he wanted to die. You know, he wanted to end immortal suffering, and um, he saw people making a mockery of it. And anyway, um, and like 10 days later, he killed himself. So, I [00:16:00] was, I came back from Christmas leave, and, uh, I was, it was the next morning, I didn’t have a car, so, to get to the base hospital, I had to do the duty truck, so I’m waiting in the, uh, by the barracks to, get Get the ride there, and it’s just me every morning that does this.

I don’t know why, how? Because we’re all, we’re all living there and like, anyway, I was confused But the guy, the guy pulls up and I get into the truck and we’re driving It’s just he and I, we’re sitting in the cab together. It’s like four, five o’clock in the morning, and he says, hey Do you, do you know an LS1 Tom Murphy? And I was like, yeah, it’s my LPO. It’s a leading petty officer It’s my boss. And he says, yeah, he killed himself last night. That’s how he told me And I, I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t even know, I didn’t know what to say. I didn’t know if anybody knew, other than like, other than [00:17:00] the people at the front desk, right?

Because I don’t know how recently it happened. I started like basically having a panic attack. Like I went to, I went into the, I went into the hospital and, um, I was asking Like I saw some of the people that I was that I worked with in different floors And I was like, I don’t really know what to do. I just found this out and they were like, uh It’s no they didn’t know what to do either.

So And then I found out that it was was not like a cruel joke and that his death Uh, the manner in which he died, somehow the, the SWAT, like SWAT team was called and all that stuff, like they were outside of his house armed and ready to go in for hours, but they didn’t want to go, obviously, because he’s a veteran, a lot of, for a lot of reasons why, so he was a, he was a Marine actually too, um, he served in the Marine first and he was in, he was in Iraq, in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think in the early, like 2003 [00:18:00] to the 4, 005, I don’t know.

In those years, and everyone that I’ve talked to from those years, it was not a good time, um, for anybody, uh, so, uh, yeah, um, they, they, uh, they waited outside, and then, uh, because they had heard a gunshot, and, um, they found his body hours later, and, um, so, one of the things that sort of has never left me is anytime, and it’s, this is every single time somebody does this, And holds like a fake finger gun to their head.

I think of Tom like every, every time. Every time. It never fails.

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Kristof Morrow: It’s, uh, uh, it’s one of the most reliable things in my life, you know? I know that when I see that I think of Tom and Um, [00:19:00] I think that he’s demonstrative of, like, a larger problem, like, with VA care and, um, with a lot of, uh, people not, like, a lot of people not, maybe not necessarily in command, but a lot of your, even those people that you serve with are not very accommodating of mental illness and, or, or, like, or addressing mental illness, uh, because sometimes, like, you have, if you have security clearances and stuff, you can Compromise that by disclosing that you have these problems.

And so, um, I really don’t know of anything more counterproductive than the notion that revealing mental illness would like then preclude you from doing a job that requires you to have Like, that, to have a sound structure of reality, right? Um,

Scott DeLuzio: Right.

Kristof Morrow: I don’t know, I just, uh, because these people, like a lot of these people are, they’re not replaceable, they’re not easily replaceable, but they’re very bright, they’re very well trained, um, [00:20:00] they, they have the personality for the work, um, and so, they need to have, uh, reprieve in the same way that other humans do because, um, you know, they’re not more than that.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: that’s, um, yeah, and a lot of people think that because they dealt, uh, with IEDs going off near them and with, uh, with other, you know, with other small arms fire like that, that they can deal anything and that’s just, but, and, but the thing is that, um, emotional distress, like a divorce or, or, uh, or losing a kid.

I mean, like there’s so, it could be so many things that can really set you off.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And there’s, yeah, like you said, there’s so many different things. It could even be just trouble with your finances and, and

Kristof Morrow: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: you know, I, I, everybody’s situations different, obviously.

Um, everybody’s reasons for mental health related issues are going to be different. Regardless, you know, [00:21:00] um,

Kristof Morrow: yeah, Mmhmm Mmhmm

Scott DeLuzio: a lot more I think needs to be done.

And the one thing that kind of is interesting to me about this whole story is that, uh, this individual that you’re talking about worked in the medical field, um, you know, worked, um, you know, in that field, had access to information who, like, if somebody, for example, if somebody was to come in, um, and, you know, He was to have seen that person, that person was having mental health related, uh, problems.

Maybe he wasn’t the mental health provider that would provide the services that was needed. At least, had the ability to refer this person to, Hey, hey, go talk to this counselor or this, you know, therapist or whatever. Um, you don’t just pull that out of thin air. You have a, you have information available to you.

Um, And so I think to your [00:22:00] point, what you’re saying is that there, in the military culture, there are, um, just these, I don’t know, stigmas or, uh, you know, these barriers for people to go and get the help. Um, maybe you think That you can handle it because you’ve handled the IEDs and the small arms fire and the all this other stuff.

Maybe you think, Oh, I’m tough. I can handle it. You know, whatever. Well, yeah, maybe you can until you can’t. And so, yeah, you go talk to somebody, you know, and, and the other thing that you, you were talking about earlier, um, was the, um, the suicide prevention, uh, topic, uh, you know, that, that, That meeting that he had called, uh, and where people were mocking the suicide attempt and making jokes and all that kind of stuff.

Um, I get the fact that jokes were made in the sense that [00:23:00] the military culture in general just has a really dark sense of humor. And not


Kristof Morrow: yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: that it was right that those jokes were made, uh, you know,

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, well, yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: but,

Kristof Morrow: it would be one, like, I normally would agree with you, but like, what they were laughing at was like, really particular, it was like when the person was pleading the most with the reader about like, their situation, it was like, it was everything, and they’re just like, oh,

Scott DeLuzio: yeah,

Kristof Morrow: yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, obviously I wasn’t in the room, so I, I don’t know

Kristof Morrow: yeah, yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: of, you know, what, what happened and what was said and, and all that kind of stuff, and, you know, probably, you know, probably would make me sick hearing some of the, the stuff, right? But, um, but, that, that is maybe a bit of a You know, weird coping mechanism that, that folks may,

Kristof Morrow: oh, no, yeah, for sure,

Scott DeLuzio: it’s not, not weird in that it’s abnormal.

It’s just a, uh, thing that, you know, [00:24:00] an outsider looking in might be like, you know, what the hell is

wrong with you? you? know, um, but, but you’re right. You know, especially, uh, in that context of a meeting about suicide prevention,

Kristof Morrow: yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: shouldn’t be making fun of suicide or the, the outcome of a failed attempt.

Um, but. That’s, that’s not a thing that you’d need to be joking about. Like sit there and learn something about, uh, you know, what had happened. And, um, that, that’s the whole purpose of that. And, you know, as, as professionals, you should act professionally and not act like a, you know, a high school student or middle school student who’s

just making jokes over things that you don’t understand, you know, so that’s,

Kristof Morrow: Yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: you know, that, that’s unfortunate


Kristof Morrow: and of course they’re not demonstrative of that, like, of the military as a whole, like, of course, most people are like me, and probably you, about that, like, um, they [00:25:00] take it rather seriously, it’s, it’s a solemn thing when someone says, like, I, and I’ve served, like, I’ve talked to so many people that I’ve served too, and they have the same, they’re of the same opinion, right, so it’s not like, I mean, yeah, um, yeah, definitely, uh, the coping mechanism thing is, is certainly one, certainly a component of it, for

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And especially when you’re dealing with folks who have served overseas, and they’ve

Kristof Morrow: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: dark things, and that tends to be the thing that you gravitate towards, is that dark humor. And

um, you know, we, we used, I know I’ve made dark jokes too, and

Kristof Morrow: Oh, I have too.

Scott DeLuzio: jokes, and I, I’m not saying that those, that it’s wrong,

Kristof Morrow: just feel bad. I, I, I know that they must be feeling like, I can’t imagine being one of the people that was laughing because like, I think about like how, I mean, I don’t know how you couldn’t possibly connect it to you, but you could, you can’t, you know what I’m saying? Like, you can’t deny the, the existence of like their, of their interconnectedness.

Cause it’s like, um, [00:26:00] even if, even if you could, I don’t think you could do it wholly. Like you couldn’t do it completely. Cause it’s, it’s, it’s, yeah, I just, I’m, you know,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah.

Um, you know, unless someone just completely blacked that out of their, their memory, that, that whole meeting, that whole experience is just blacked it out of their memory. Yeah. There’s, I would

imagine there’s some connection.

Kristof Morrow: Mm-Hmm. . It’s a traumatic time for everybody, I think.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah.

Um, so after, after all this, you know, you, you get out of the, the military, um, tell us about what that, that time period was like for you getting out and what you ended up,

uh, you know, getting into. Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: so I, I learned that I was a writer, uh, when I was in the Navy. And, uh, I actually, that was enabled quite a bit by like different people, uh, professionally and personally. Like, they, they encouraged me, [00:27:00] uh, to do the work. And, um, I even was like, uh, there was. A point where they were trying to, someone in public relations was on the base, was trying to get me to work in their office and had tried to have an interview with the commanding officer and all this, like the CEO of the, of the, of the hospital.

And, um, anyway, uh, so, um, I learned after, uh, after I started, uh, writing, I learned that I was, I was pretty good at it and I was doing well. Uh, I tried to go to school for it. Uh, I tried to go to school just in general, uh, to be like an EMT, uh, which I ended up doing, uh, and I did 9 1 1 dispatching, uh, and then journalism, uh, uh, and I, I’ve won awards.

I won awards in journalism and photography, uh, for, uh, feature writing. Uh, and I taught myself, I taught myself while I was in the Navy [00:28:00] actually. And, uh, yeah, I, uh, it was hard because returning to civilian life, um, It’s interesting because when you don’t have, when you don’t have, like, war stories, it’s like they’re disappointed. And I think it’s so, like, that’s so, I don’t even know, the grim is not really the word, it’s so, it’s perverted, I think, in a strange way.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that’s a good word for it. Yeah,

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, because it doesn’t, it’s, it’s really, it’s really strange to want people to like describe, because it’s like whenever I, any paramedic or EMT will tell you this thing, they’re like, what was the worst call you ever got, and it’s like, oh yeah, let me just tell you about, you know, the thing I found in a microwave, okay?

Like, there’s, nobody wants to talk about that, okay? And um, And, and so like, I feel like, uh, people, there, there is always going to be this divide between civilians and, and because there’s just [00:29:00] no way to reconcile that lack of experience, they’re not going to understand that it’s not funny. Like, there’s some things, like, I know you’re talking about, we were talking about earlier, but there’s some things that were like within your personal history that you can’t joke about.

Like, you just can’t because it’s just It’s just so, it’s just tragic. That’s it. That’s all it is.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: lesson to be, it’s

Scott DeLuzio: And it’s not a movie. It’s not, it’s not

meant to be entertaining. You know, it’s like, like, you watch Saving Private Ryan, right? And that, that was meant to be entertaining. There’s a whole story that went along with it. The characters were developed and all the, these things, right? But, you know, what is the worst thing that you can do?

You saw, or did you shoot somebody or did you have to do this or that? Like those things are terrible things that you shouldn’t have to relive, you know, just for somebody else’s entertainment, right?

Like that’s that’s a movie has its place, right? Those things

exist for the entertainment value, the the [00:30:00] memories and the experiences and the thoughts and all this stuff that, that.

You and I and other people have, have experienced. We shouldn’t have to relive those just for the entertainment of the folks who are asking us about it.

Kristof Morrow: Yeah. It’s, it is really, yeah. I, I just, uh, I, it’s easy. It’s so easy to lose someone’s respect that way. Like the minute you ask somebody who’s done something, any, like, anything remotely serious like that in their lives, uh, it just looks you, you just look like a very unserious person and like someone that lives without consequence. You know, like, who lives a life without consequence and, um, and doesn’t see service to others as a thing. Because like, serving others, I mean, I think in general, like, it escalates in your life. You realize you enjoy helping and caring for others and you sort of like, you see how far you’re willing to go to do that,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: you know what I mean?

And so, um, yeah, I [00:31:00] think, yeah, yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s interesting. So you got into, into writing, won some awards and, you know, obviously, uh, fairly accomplished as far as, uh, your, your writing goes. Um, you, and you mentioned earlier, uh, the, The issue with having Tourette’s that you said was that developed while you were in the Navy?

Is that

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, that’s the weird thing. So like, I, it’s actually, it actually manifested outside of what the DSM 5, uh, lists as criteria. For the condition, because it does, it lists that, uh, you have to be 18 or younger

Scott DeLuzio: Interesting.

Kristof Morrow: for it to, it has to manifest before that for it to be Tourette’s. I certainly have Tourette’s, and it didn’t start until I was 19, um, which, you know, I, I, I think, uh, that rules like that are, are just, like, when they, when they describe it, that’s not helpful.

Scott DeLuzio: No. No,

Kristof Morrow: they did that, it doesn’t matter. Like, I, I didn’t, it didn’t [00:32:00] preclude me from getting the diagnosis. In fact, the doctor was quite casual about it. He was cavalier even. He was like, uh, I, I described my symptoms to him and, and, um, he says, oh, oh, well, let’s give you something to treat that Tourette’s.

I was like, wait, wait, what? Um, yeah, and.

Scott DeLuzio: just that easy. Just all matter of fact like that.

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, he’s, yeah, it was weird. It was really strange.

Scott DeLuzio: So, I guess, um, the question I had about that is, um, do you think that the writing was Was something that you used as, I don’t know, maybe like a, a coping

mechanism to, to share, to, express yourself or, or

get your thoughts across. Is that kind of how that developed?

Kristof Morrow: Oh, absolutely. Oh, man, Scott. Yeah, 100%. Like, have you seen, have you, I read, I wrote a short story called All Wars End Alone.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay. Sure.

Kristof Morrow: And, um, you got to think about the title for a second, but it works. [00:33:00] They end alone. They all wars end alone. Yeah, and so, um, I, oh my god, yeah, I, several times, my, so many, I’ve, I’ve written a few stories, like short stories, uh, to talk about, like, what I saw, like, the grief I saw in people returning from deployments, uh, and some of the, the, the strange things, like, that happened to those people mentally, um, and, like, they become symptomatic, I remember, I wrote this short story called The Great Fishless River when I was, Um, which is about, uh, two kids going fishing, that’s it, and one of them has a brother who just got back from the Middle East, and he has, like, these weird bouts of rage that he never had before, and, like, they’re not, they can’t figure out why he gets so angry all the time, and why, like, you know, like, uh, a lightbulb exploded upstairs and it freaked him out so bad that he, you know, it’s like a whole thing, [00:34:00] um.

And so, so he doesn’t understand, neither of them understand why that’s happening, and that’s just, that’s it, that’s all they’re talking about. Uh, I wrote about, I wrote a short story about the funeral, um, that I went to, that afterwards that was, um, for Tom. Uh, and several others, I mean, honestly, there’s, like, few, like, um, probably the one that was most, uh, It was just about a guy who, um, who comes upon someone that he became friends with, he, he finds them drunk and dead in the snow.

Uh, and he was like home on leave for Christmas. And, uh, it’s a whole, it was a whole thing. But that’s, that’s member also to, um, the way that I was trying to describe what was going on in, like, in terms of my grief. Um, and then the grief that I was trying to come to understand that, uh, I didn’t because I didn’t go overseas.[00:35:00]

Uh, I still tried to understand. Um, And describe in terms that are tasteful and true.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Um, you know, you’ve mentioned a couple of times, you know, the, the folks who haven’t gone overseas and

they’re, um, you know, how they might. perceive their service, or how other people maybe perceive their service. And, uh, you know, I I did go overseas, um, but when I hear people who say things like, Yeah, I served, but I didn’t go overseas.

You know, I didn’t deploy. You’re right. Um,

to me, that That is like, um, it’s like unnecessarily diminishing.

Kristof Morrow: Self deprecating.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. it’s

it’s like diminishing your, your service and the value that you provided to this country because,[00:36:00]

Kristof Morrow: Mm hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: everybody signed up, everybody, you know, in the recent, the last

Kristof Morrow: that’s the risk.

Scott DeLuzio: we all volunteered

and we, we all did whatever it was that the country asked us to do.

Um, and. Maybe there was some, some need that, that needed to be filled here at, at home, taking care of, like


Kristof Morrow: green

Scott DeLuzio: care of those folks who, uh, are coming back from overseas, you know, they, they can only spend so long over there and they come back, they need to get help. Um, they, they’re going to have medical.

Uh, uh, mental health and physical health and, and other things that need to be taken care of. And that’s where folks like you came in and, and if there was nobody here, could you imagine those, those people just like walking around aimlessly? Like, where do I get help?

You know?

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a, I think it’s a necessary bridge between civilian life and military. Like, if you consider that, like, if you consider, my [00:37:00] personality accommodates People that have gone served overseas because whatever they come back with, I’m going to be sympathetic or empathetic of that situation.

Cause I. Been around it enough, and around other people enough, like, that have gone through it, that, um, I’m familiar with how it manifests, uh, and I’m, and the most important thing is being forgiving, um, because, uh, these people don’t want to hurt other people, like, if they, people that are serving, that are, uh, experiencing Um, PTSD and so on.

It’s just, uh, it’s often, it’s really unfair, um, truly people that don’t have any of these experiences and don’t have to war with that, uh, being, like, being member to your history, uh, they don’t understand what it feels like for your, like, nervous system to be on fire. Basically all the time, you know, and it’s you don’t even realize that you’re on fire [00:38:00] like, you know, that everyone perceives you differently because of what you’ve been through or but you can’t You can’t devise a way that that that can impart what’s relevant and helpful to that for them to understand you can’t

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Uh, you know, I, I even noticed that in myself just, you know, when I came back from overseas is, um, I, I just noticed that I w I was just a different person. You know, I was I, I was not as happy as I once was. I was not as, um, uh, you know, easygoing or whatever. I was very quick to get angry. And why? You know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t put my finger on the why.

Like, I, I knew I was diff there was a difference there, but I couldn’t put the, the finger on the why. And I, and if someone was to ask me, like, what’s going on? What, what’s going on with you? I don’t know. I, I, I wouldn’t be able to put that into words.

Um, it, yeah.

Kristof Morrow: you’re grieving like it’s people what it is is you’re grieving like [00:39:00] Like, the fact that you’ve been disillusioned, like, once you realize that people actually die through violence, like, on a scale that’s organized, you know, by religion or politics, you realize, like, how, like, this, like, how quickly that could completely derail all of society, like, It just, it takes a, it just takes a little bit for you to realize chaos can come at any second, like anywhere.

I mean, what’s that? There’s a guy that says nine, nine missed meals. Uh, there’s, there’s like three, or like three meals between uh, cvi Civilized Society and Total Chaos. Like anarchy, like there’s, it’s three missed meals and it’s, it’s, yeah, that’d be dumb. Imagine America, everyone in America missing a few meals like it would be.

I mean, we’ve seen like low, like we’ve seen, um, smaller versions of that, like during storms, you’re

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, during that type of thing, and [00:40:00] you saw what happened just a few years ago at the beginning of COVID when you couldn’t find toilet paper on the shelves because everyone was hoarding that stuff thinking that that was going to fix something, I don’t know, um, you know, that you

Kristof Morrow: going to sell it. You’re

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, or something, like, you know, like What do you It’s toilet paper, man.

Like, it’s I don’t know. Like, I don’t think anyone has ever, like, spent any meaningful time out in a field, um, you know, trying to figure out

how to

Kristof Morrow: or maybe too much time out in the field.

Scott DeLuzio: Or maybe too much time. Maybe, maybe they, maybe that is, maybe that is true. They, they wanted that creature comfort of, of having the toilet paper around, you

Kristof Morrow: Either way, it’s symptomatic of something,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,


Kristof Morrow: but it’s grief. Yeah. I think that people are grieving. Like, I think that people, that’s what they’re sad about. They realize that they’re never going to get that back and you can never correct it. You can never, yeah. You’re blemished. Yes.

Scott DeLuzio: And there’s, there’s something, you know, you just said that [00:41:00] there’s something that you’ll never get back. You’ll never get back that, uh, I guess maybe, maybe innocence is the right word, you know,

where, where,

Kristof Morrow: purity.

Scott DeLuzio: or, ignorance, or,

you know, I. Yeah. Yeah. Um, trust is good. Um, you know, you’ll, you’ll never get that back because seeing what you’ve seen, doing what you’ve done, um, it, it just takes all of that away.

Um, and now how do you. how do you. deal with that? How do you get back to a quote unquote, normal life? Um, how do you, um, not let the, the little things turn into huge things, you know, the, the, you know, the balloon popping turn into a full blown, you know, uh,

rage incident or, or where

you go and hide in the closet or something or, you know, I don’t know.

Um, you know, how do you let those [00:42:00] things Just become normal things like they are to, you know, almost anybody else, you know,

Kristof Morrow: Well, I

Scott DeLuzio: that’s a difficult thing.

Kristof Morrow: that’s a funny thing. It’s like, I, Shakespeare, um, because like we try to measure Trauma by the, the, the events that induced it, you know? Um, uh, but the thing is that there, I think there’s a point of diminishing returns where the, the trauma is just going to be like full scale, no matter what you, like, so like, uh, like being, like, for example, like if you were, if you were a kid and you, uh, and you’re beaten viciously every day, um, I would contend that situation for a kid would be, would feel a lot worse than being stationed in a little, in a base.

Anywhere. It doesn’t, I guess, because I honestly, I, um, but the thing is that, um, just in the base though, yeah, you guys, just in the base,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, sure,


Kristof Morrow: sitting around in the base as well, like, you know, um, the thing is, it’s just, um, [00:43:00] but we can’t, we can’t, uh, we can’t quantify it that way, because we have to measure its effect on the person, rather than, um, it’s, like, its ability to affect people, uh, and so forgiveness, I think, is the number one thing, because I think a lot of, uh, veterans are going to, like, hurt the people they love, and offend them, and, uh, when they have moments of lucidity, uh, when that returns, you have to be able to, uh, put the blame, like, necessarily where it’s, where it is, and that’s in, that’s in the, you are being symptomatic of a real condition, whenever, that’s what I was saying, it’s, it’s, it’s quite cruel with people that haven’t gone through anything like that, because they don’t realize how much anxiety determines your perception of the world,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm.

Kristof Morrow: And like PTSD can like completely warp the way that you think about people and events and how strongly [00:44:00] you react to things.

Um, and, uh, it’s, it’s, it doesn’t, it’s completely unproductive.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: um, and so I see it as, um, I see that as part of you, I think that needs to be part of our understanding so that we can actually, uh, not destroy our self worth with blame. We need to do, cause we’re trying to heal, trying to do better.

Scott DeLuzio: Now for the folks who are, you know, maybe the loved ones, family members or, you know, co workers or just friends, neighbors, whatever. With regards to what we were just talking about with folks who are dealing with mental health issues or dealing with, with anything, um, like that, uh, with regards to suicide prevention,

um, you know, we were talking about that before, [00:45:00] um, you know, what are some ways in your opinion that, that you’ve seen, uh, that have been helpful?

Are beneficial. What are things that people can do to help, uh, folks in those situations where, where maybe they’re not quite in their right mind, uh, you know, and, and how do, how do we kind of pull them back and help them, uh, you know, get back to, you know, uh, you know, uh, uh, happier.

Kristof Morrow: Hmm. Yeah. Well, I think you need to be, I think it’s the most important thing. Cause I think that a lot of veterans, um, especially the ones that go overseas and stuff, uh, you like, if, if you’re going, if you do, uh, patrols and stuff like that, you have to look, like you’re watching people all the time. Like you really pay attention to the way people are looking at you and all this stuff.

Like, I mean, I would, I would imagine that eventually, like you, you get maybe used to it, but, um, but, uh, you start to develop, uh, An understanding of what truth looks like, how it rests in the face, how it sits in the face. And [00:46:00] so whenever, whenever you come to confront like these problems, you need to do it from a place of earnestness, because the people that are looking at you and who have went, have gone through that, have studied enough. untruth and deception and through through necessary paranoia to get to where they are. So like you can’t so don’t try to fool them. Don’t try to lie to them and because that’s that’s I mean, you’re just going to destroy all your credibility and like and your ability to intervene later on. It’s, it’s, I think it’s really about never giving up on, if, if they use their moments of awareness, like, of, of, and where they are themselves, to, to say, like, I’m sorry you were on the receiving end of that. situation and I really want to do better and this is how I’m doing better to manage because I’ve heard a lot that [00:47:00] your mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility, uh, which is a helpful way to describe the relationship you should have with it.

However, like when the word responsibility, I mean only to describe like it’s how you manage it, not in how it manifests and then like it’s so like Because you’re being symptomatic, if you’re trying, if you truly are trying to become a better person and, and recover and, and be a productive member of society and all of those things, you really cannot hold things, things against yourself.

Like you, you really have self blame is just really not going to help. And I’m, I’m the worst about that for myself and Shakespeare and like the whole Tourette’s the way it manifests. And I injure myself as that’s part of it. A large part of it is that I feel like I deserve it. Like I deserve to be punished and that’s because the way I grew up and the way I was beaten growing up And so like it’s like literally I’m like pathological or whatever Like I [00:48:00] can’t now I have a now I have a condition that literally makes me hurt myself because uh, I my brain eventually says You know This is what you deserve and this is how you make it right with the world and you I if anybody should say you should Not please do not do that to yourself.

Don’t become like me. It’s it’s freaking awful. Like it’s better just to Respect that you’re a human who is sick.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And I think your point about the responsibility, um, you know, it’s not, uh, you know, It’s not, the thing that happened to you is not your responsibility that it happened to you, but how you react to it, um, is the responsibility of you and, and, and

not meaning, like you said, not meaning your, you know, uh, uh, your emotions or anything like that, but like getting, going and getting the help, that’s your responsibility,

Kristof Morrow: symptoms are not your fault either. That’s the thing. It’s, it’s [00:49:00] how, it’s how you manage it in the end. Like that’s your responsibility. How you manage it is the most important part. If you, if you have symptoms of it, you need to like, it’s, it’s about like writing that stuff down. It’s about like, it’s, it’s, it sucks because you’re the one that has to do it. But ultimately it’s going to benefit you. It’s like, it’s, it all benefits you. I mean, that’s what the aim is anyway.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And well, so yeah, it benefits you, but for, uh, the folks who are listening, I know a lot of people out there are the, um, you know, the tough guy kind of, kind of mentality is I can deal with this. It’s, you know, whatever. It’s fine. If you know the way it is and, and everything like that. But, but so when you say something like it benefits you, that might just bounce off of somebody, I think, uh, in, in some cases where they’re just like, yeah, but it’s fine.

I don’t need that. Um, where, we Maybe another way to think of it and not say that not criticizing

anything [00:50:00] that you said

at all because I agree with what you’re


Kristof Morrow: I know the personality you’re talking about though, I know what you get. Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: The other way to look at it is it also benefits Your family, your loved

Kristof Morrow: Oh, of course it

Scott DeLuzio: folks in your life, right? Because you’re going to be a better father, a better husband, a better, you know, I’m, I’m picking on the guys here because the guys are a lot of, a lot of times stubborn with this stuff, but,

um, you know, but same thing for, for the ladies as well, you know, you’ll be a better wife and a better mother and, uh, you know, uh,

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, anybody

honestly yeah

Scott DeLuzio: you know,

Kristof Morrow: Whoever, I don’t care, as long as you’re, um, uh, I, I thought you were 100 percent right. Yeah, there’s, it’s so much about, because it’s so much about making your, um, In my book I read, I, I write at one point, uh, In the end, uh, you realize that, uh, All joy is, uh, derived from your, uh, your relationship with others, like from [00:51:00] your, from the warmth of your friends.

All joy is derived from the warmth of, of friendship. And, and you, you, uh, you keep that, you’re keeper to that, and you encourage that, uh, and you invite that, uh, by, um, by addressing the mental health issues. Cause it’s like, it’s, it damages. It might be little offenses, but little offenses can eventually up.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah. Every one of those little things. It’s like the, uh, um, the concept of a death by a thousand cuts. Uh, you

Kristof Morrow: Mm hmm.

Scott DeLuzio: small little, little cuts. Um, you know,

one little cut may not be a big deal, you know, slap a bandaid on that thing. You’ll be fine. Um, you know, but a thousand of them that, that’s a whole different story.


and that’s, that’s where, um, uh, that’s where those small. Offenses like you’re talking about, those

small things, they, they [00:52:00] can, they can start to really erode, uh, relationships and trust

and everything else. It’s just, uh, you know, if, if there’s something out there worth fighting for, you know, a marriage or, uh, you know, uh,

some other relationship or something, you know, man, do what you need to do to get yourself right so that you can show up and be the best fill in the blank, whatever that

relationship is.

Kristof Morrow: the corollary to that statement, like with, you know, being the people that are with these, the ones that have the PTSD, you guys need to be resilient to like in, in the same amount of effort and uh, and resistance to, uh, despair that the people that are sick have to do, like to get through the day.

You should be putting towards in warmth and love towards the people. That are dealing with it. It’s like, it’s because otherwise, uh, and like, there’s, there’s something [00:53:00] that I always like try to talk about. There’s like a few things. There’s three techniques that I, when I describe like getting rid of anxiety, like part of.

Uh, meditation is an important part of it, and the way that I describe its efficacy is that it’s like using a garden hose to, uh, empty a pool. It’s gonna take a long time, but it’s actually generally effective. Like, uh, the thing is, it’s just about paying attention to your body, and like, trying to figure out, like, where you’re tensing up a lot.

’cause if you work, you work out a lot, you can kind of, you know what I’m, you know what I’m talking about. Um, but it’s just about noticing like where you’re doing that because, uh, you know, uh, the other thing is tapping, uh, which is a, this is another technique that I, you’ve probably talked about on here, but, uh.

Uh, you, you tap with your finger, uh, somewhat aggressively, uh, a bundle, bundles of nerves around your body. And that, uh, that excites some part of your brain that processes pain or something. And basically whatever [00:54:00] you’re thinking about that gives you so much anxiety. Doing the tapping tells your brain, Oh, that thing doesn’t hurt that much.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: Okay. That’s the other thing. And then, uh, and then, uh, there’s one last thing that I just had in my head a second ago, sorry, it was stimulation. People that have PTSD are generally more sensitive to stimulation. And I learned recently that, that whatever accepts, the reason I have, you know, whatever part of your brain that, uh, dopamine receptors, uh, whenever you are stimulated too much, it’s like you’re constantly being exposed to dopamine and you, it lowers your, it raises the threshold of which you, like, how much you need in order to, like, experience joy and stuff.

So, you know how those Mormons are not, You know, they, they, they do seven, on the set, on Sundays, they do a family home evening and they spend all day not listening to nothing and not doing nothing and that, you know what, that’s why they’re happy, that’s why [00:55:00] they’re a little bit happier than everybody else because they got that one day where most of them are just not doing anything and so they do, they truly do, like it’s, they truly are, maybe a tiny bit happier.

Uh, because they, you know, maybe are, truly, and that’s part of it. And I think that a lot of, uh, religious folks, uh, know what I’m talking about. Um, having that day of where you refrain, uh, and reflect, uh, is actually, uh, somewhat medicinal. Truly, you know, uh,

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Yeah. That’s a good point. Um, Because, I mean, there is so much stimulation in this world. I mean, everything

from your phone to what’s on television to You go on the internet and you can find You can go down a rabbit hole on any topic. And you

could stay there forever, you know?

Kristof Morrow: like any other substance. When you, you drink too much, you have to drink more and more and more to feel the same thing. If your brain is stimulated so much that, like, It’s got the dopamine going all the [00:56:00] time, and it’s, it’s like, it’s nothing. It’s nothing. It’s a river that turns to glue,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. That’s a, that’s a good way to think of it. Um, you know, it, it needs a lot more, uh, you know, effort to, to get that river flowing.

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, so, restrain, like, refrain as much as you can, like, From stimulation and stuff, because that’s also going to be very helpful for people with PTSD and stuff like that, is reducing the amount of stimulation,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah.

Yeah. And like you said, these, these things take time.

Um, you know, you can reduce stimulation one day, uh, you know, you do it, do it tomorrow and say, Hey, I’m going to set this as my day where I’m going to reduce the amount of stimulation that I’m getting. And, you know, hopefully the next day I’ll be.

I’ll be magically cured. Well, that’s just not going to happen. You know,

it’s, it’s something that, that takes time. This is something

Kristof Morrow: Yeah. It being a pool with a garden hose. Really. You gotta just sit there, just hold it.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, you can’t expect to walk into [00:57:00] a gym, uh, you know, throw a bunch of weights around and walk out looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, like

it’s, it’s not going to happen, you know?

So like that, that stuff takes time And

and you have to be okay with that. And I think you have to commit. To it.

Kristof Morrow: Yeah, like I, like I told you, I wrote a book and like, my book is, is, is two and a half times longer than The Hobbit. It’s a long book.

Scott DeLuzio: Wow. Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: It’s a long book, you know, and I tell people they say, how did you do that? And it’s like so funny because the answer is really, truly, one word at a time.

It’s like, it really is one word at a time, and I’m quite careful. So yeah, it truly is like, it’s, it’s, uh, Yeah, it’s, and also like envisioning a goal, I think, uh, is an important part of that. Like, doing, uh, modest goals that are achievable and also somewhat inspiring,

Scott DeLuzio: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Kristof Morrow: like what ends up making you like feel proud of yourself for doing, like, once you’ve been in so much despair for so long, [00:58:00] like making your bed become something worth celebrating and celebrate it.

Scott DeLuzio: Celebrate it. And, and you’re right. Even, even the little things

Kristof Morrow: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: as small as making your bed or, you know, one, just one thing that you, you accomplish every day. Um,

and you can look back and just, just be proud of that. And it’s, you’re right. It is a weird thing. I I’ve experienced that myself with, with just.

Other ordinary, just mundane day to day tasks. It’s just a thing that I’ve done daily. And I look back and it’s like, I did this every day for how, however long, you know, that’s, that’s a pretty cool accomplishment, you know, um, you know, uh, that, that I’ve, I’ve at least had the, uh, uh, fortitude to stick with it, you know,

not, not give up on it, you know? Um, so you mentioned your book, um, you know, could you tell us a little bit about the book and, and what, what that’s all about?[00:59:00]

Kristof Morrow: It’s actually, uh, this is, this is a, this is an early version of it. I had to, I had to fiddle with, uh, cause they, the font and all that stuff. Um, but this is called The Second Son. Um, and really, uh, I, I wanted to talk about. Uh, it’s, there’s a lot of military stuff, and there’s like, there’s um, it’s about, it’s an epic fantasy, uh, and Empire, there’s slavery, there’s, uh, there’s everything but racism and sexism, because I thought that was just too much baggage, like, for I, I really wanted to focus on the human, like, just the human component of our lives, really, um I wanted to, like, write out, like, some, some allegory, uh, about income inequality, uh, about like, well, generational income inequality, you know, cause the, uh, like right now a lot of millennials and, uh, and younger are [01:00:00] like, are, are struggling to buy homes, not just struggling.

Like it’s just, it’s, I mean, for some, it’s impossible. They will never save up enough money. Like the amount of the amount that your house appreciates in value is now. Like, it doesn’t matter how much money the Millennials saves during the year, because it’s appreciated more than what they’re capable of compensating for, you know?

Um, and so, uh, there’s just, there’s, there’s actually, there’s, uh, there’s pirates, there’s, uh, there’s all kinds of, uh, characters from all over the world. There’s different kinds of love. There’s different kinds of, uh, it’s, it’s just so, there’s actually so much. I try to be comprehensive in that sense. If you’ve read John Steinbeck’s East of Eden,

Scott DeLuzio: Okay.

Kristof Morrow: He’s an extraordinary writer, one of the best American writers ever.

Um, and, uh, He said his whole mission as a writer is to help people understand one another, and I share in that, um, and I write, I mean to write literature, uh, so, uh, [01:01:00] I want it to, I want it to achieve a certain level of, of understanding, like, uh, and, and describe the best, in the best terms are, I don’t know, um, our nature and our habits.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah,


Kristof Morrow: uh, feel like I did some of that.

Scott DeLuzio: excellent.

Kristof Morrow: I, I, I’ve gotten some really flattering reviews, uh, from people all over the world, I’ve sold like 13, without a marketing budget, anybody, I didn’t have anybody, I have myself, I sold 1300 books, uh, and over 50 countries. On all six continents, except for Antarctica, of course, being the seventh.

Um, yeah, and so I’ve, I’ve just, uh, I, I love my work more than anything, and, uh, I’m, I mean it to actually be a reflection of who we are, like, you know. That’s amazing.

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Well, that’s awesome. Um, so we’ll, I’ll have, uh, you know, information about that in the, uh, the show notes as well, if anyone is interested in checking that out, but I appreciate you sharing that, uh, with us. Um, before we wrap up the show, uh, I know a lot of times the, these episodes can be kind of heavy, kind of, you know, sometimes a little dark and everything.

And, um, You know, I, I want, I always like to end with a little bit of humor, um, just to, you know, help, help folks laugh and, you know, find some, uh, joy in life. And so I, I have a segment that I like to do this segment when I have another veteran on the show, um, cause it always gets a good laugh. Uh, it’s called, Is It Service Connected?

[01:04:00] And it basically is. Watching a video of a service member doing something stupid. And then we try to predict whether or not whatever happened in the video would qualify for some sort of disability, uh, you know, service connected disability down the line. Um, it’s, it’s kind of a America’s funniest home videos, military edition, uh, type thing.

So, you know, it’s, it’s a, just a fun, short. Short segment, you know, short 20, 30 second, uh, segment, not a big deal. Um, and, uh, you know, so we’ll take a look at it, um, for the audio, uh, listeners, uh, of this podcast who can’t view the video, I’ll try to describe it as best as I can. Um, your best bet, go to YouTube or Twitter, X, whatever they call it now.

And, uh, check out the video, uh, Check out the video there, um, but I’ll, I’ll do my best to try to, uh, explain what’s going on. So I’ll share my screen with you right now so, uh, you can [01:05:00] see what I am seeing and we’ll get this video up.

Um, right now it looks like an obstacle course. Um, you know, one of those, uh, uh, those things, I forget what they call it,

where you They’re trying to, uh, work together as a team, team, team building exercises.


and, uh, they’re trying to, it looks like trying to cross, um, you know, some water and I, it looks like a couple, uh, 55 gallon drums tied together with a rope with a

Kristof Morrow: I don’t like the title of this video. Obstacle Gut Check.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah, I, I tried to name them so I remember what the videos are all about, but, um, that’s, that’s what

we, uh,

Kristof Morrow: you need, huh?

Scott DeLuzio: that’s what we’re taking a look at and, uh, let’s see what happens. So we got a soldier who tries to run across this obstacle, and he gets slammed into this bar that he was trying to jump over, um, right in his gut.

So that was a gut check, I think, that we were talking about

[01:06:00] there. Um, and you can see, I don’t know, there must be probably 20 soldiers there who are standing around. Everyone is cracking up, um, at the failed attempt to cross this obstacle. Uh, but it looked like there was a high five at the end. Uh, so I

think I think for, for that, that soldier who was getting across there, uh, everything turned out okay.

I don’t, I don’t think he was too seriously injured. Um, you know, maybe a, maybe a cracked rib if he hit that thing hard enough,

but other than that, I think he’ll be okay.


Kristof Morrow: Yeah.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, anyways, well, thank you again, Kristoff, for taking the time to join us, uh, sharing everything that, uh, that you have experienced in your time in the Navy as a corpsman and, uh, you know, the experiences that you had, uh, you know, losing that shipmate and, um, you know, how that That affected you and in ways that we can, you know, maybe work to prevent [01:07:00] that or at least be more sympathetic towards the folks who are dealing with, uh, you know, some sort of mental health conditions, uh, that, that just need, need a, a good sympathetic, uh, you

know, ear to just kind of listen to them, you know, so, uh, so thank you for that.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

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