Episode 366 Sam Mandel Benefits of Ketamine Infusion Therapy Transcript

This transcript is from episode 366 with guest Sam Mandel.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio. And on today’s episode, we have a passionate advocate for mental health, Sam Mandel, who wears many hats as the co founder and chief executive officer of Ketamine Clinics, Los Angeles. Sam’s journey is deeply rooted in a commitment to mental health advocacy, starting from his early experiences with Family and friends struggles and his dedication led him to establish one of the most successful ketamine infusion therapy clinics globally, offering Innovative solutions for conditions such as [00:01:00] depression, PTSD, anxiety, and suicidality.

So, uh, before we get into that, we’re going to talk a little bit about, um, what he does, but before we do, I want to welcome you to the show, Sam. I’m really glad to have you here.

Sam Mandel: It’s great to be here. Thank you for having me, Scott.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, you bet. Um, for folks who are unfamiliar, uh, with ketamine and, and the, the therapy that you offer, uh, could you tell us what ketamine infusion therapy is and, and how does it differ from, um, you know, other, maybe more traditional, uh, mental health type treatments?

Sam Mandel: Yeah, so ketamine infusion therapy consists of the gradual and continuous sub anesthetic doses of ketamine over a period of around, uh, 50 to 55 minutes in our clinic at Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles. We do things a little differently here. Most people are offering 40 minute long infusions, but we provide 55.

I think just to take a quick step back, let’s define ketamine quickly. So ketamine is an [00:02:00] FDA approved anesthetic. It’s been around since the 60s, FDA approved in 1970, uh, among the most widely used anesthetics in the world, incredibly safe, uh, used as the primary anesthetic for pediatric cases because of how safe it is, you know, for children.

And it’s also an analgesic, a pain reliever. So it’s used instead of opioids in certain situations, you know, traumas, injuries, accidents, etc. It’s also a drug that people use recreationally, that they abuse or that they self medicate with depending on how you want to look at it. And it’s known as Special K, same drug.

So it’s got a lot of different uses. But in the last 25 years plus, there’s been a growing body of scientific research to prove its use as an, uh, elevator of mood, as a antidepressant, as a treatment for a variety of mental health conditions, uh, not limited to PTSD, suicidality, obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety, and depression.

Those are the kind of primary five there. So this is a very, uh, Versatile, ubiquitous drug, many different [00:03:00] uses. It is an FDA approved medicine. Using it for mental health is an off label use. So that just means that there’s good basis to use it for things other than what it was originally approved for because it was originally approved as an anesthetic.

So ketamine therapy for mental health is generally a series of six IV infusions intravenous over the course of two to three weeks. And we have a purpose built facility and a team that really specializes in this treatment because it’s pretty unique and different from other ways of treating depression and mood disorders.

Scott DeLuzio: So, so with the, the inject, the IV, um, of the ketamine, um, is it simply just getting the, the, uh, medicine put into you or is there, there any sort of like talk therapy kind of incorporated with that? How does that work?

Sam Mandel: Yeah, that’s a good question. So, it’s definitely more than just putting the medicine into the patient, right? I mean, [00:04:00] what we really focus on is that it’s ketamine and care. And that care can translate in different ways, but ultimately it’s very important that there be high quality care going along with the medicine.

And if you’re just giving someone The drug by itself, they might get some advantages or some benefits from that, but it’s not really going to do, uh, them justice in the way that providing it with real care, uh, will. And in some cases, it can cause harm when it’s not provided in a caring fashion and in the right environment and responsibly.

So We’re big on the care. Care looks like the therapeutic relationship, supporting people, helping them to feel valued and important, getting to know them and their unique needs, taking the time to really support them through their journey, helping to prepare them for it in advance, and then helping them to kind of process.

the experience afterwards and debrief. We don’t actually provide psychotherapy in house. We refer out for it and a lot of our patients already have therapists, so we just encourage them to work with them to process the material that comes up during their infusions. [00:05:00] Um, we are looking at potentially bringing some psychotherapy in house, but we’re not quite there yet.

It’s definitely a very valuable part of the treatment, but usually it’s best done for most patients on a separate occasion. So, you know, there are some people who are doing something called CAP, which is Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy, where they’re actually providing therapy during the medicine session for patients.

And that can be very healing for some people, and some people really, you know, maybe need that approach. In our experience, most patients are going to have a better result if they can have the Time and space to have their own inner journey because during the infusion it really is a journey. It’s a dissociative anesthetic It’s also really in for all intended purposes a psychedelic.

So there’s this kind of exploration of the mind and of the Realm of the world outside of the mind, you know that that kind of goes on during it So giving people space where they feel comfortable and safe to go on that journey and, and, you know, within and without, and then process it [00:06:00] with a professional, um, maybe later that day or the next day or a couple of days later while it’s still fresh is really the ideal kind of scenario in our mind for most people.

Again, it’s not a one size fits all, but that’s generally what’s going to be, uh, best. So, yeah, and we, there’s different routes of administration as well of using ketamine therapeutically. You know, some people are providing, uh, trochies or lozenges that people will take at home or in an office. They dissolve under the tongue.

They’re sub, uh, sublingual. Uh, some people are providing IM injections, intramuscular injections, where it’s a shot, uh, as opposed to what we do, which is a steady, gradual infusion over the course of an, uh, almost an hour. Uh, some people are using nasal sprays. So there’s different ways of, uh, giving or receiving the medicine, you know, uh, giving or receiving ketamine.

IV.

Scott DeLuzio: probably, I’d imagine that those are probably, uh, unique to the individual and what their, their situation is, or is there a benefit to one over the other?

Sam Mandel: There are some nuanced advantages to IV, and when you look at the [00:07:00] data, I mean, there’s about 200 clinical trials that have been conducted on ketamine for mental health, and around 70 of them have results published online now. So there’s a lot of scientific research proving the safety and efficacy of this treatment.

About 90 95%. are on the IV route of administration, intravenous. That is really the gold standard in safety and efficacy, and that’s what’s really proven by the research. There’s good results that some people are seeing with the other methods. Anecdotally, there’s not a lot of actual real science to back those up.

And with IV, you know, 100 percent of the medicine is bioavailable. It’s 100 percent bioavailability. It goes right into the blood. Uh, you can increase or decrease the rate of infusion during it. To help to find the ideal level of comfort and, um, efficacy for a patient and also you can stop the infusion if you need to, uh, if there’s any kind of issues there, whereas with the, all of the others, once you’ve given them the medicine, it’s, it’s in the system and you can’t [00:08:00] take it out.

Scott DeLuzio: Sure. Sure. Yeah. And that makes sense too. If there’s some reason that you need to stop, uh, yeah, I didn’t even think of that. You can, you can just stop providing the, um, the medicine as opposed to, you know, once you’re injected with it, it’s too late. You can’t take that out. You know, it’s, you’re, you’re past that point of no return.

So, um, so that does seem like a, um, uh, a more, um, uh, safer option. Let’s, let’s just call it, um, you know, a safer option where, where someone who You know, especially a first time you, uh, person going through this, this, uh, type of therapy, um, they may not know how they’re going to react to it and all that kind of stuff.

So it may be, uh, you know, a little bit better to have that slow gradual, um, you know, dosage, uh, you know, throughout that, that whole, uh, session. Right. Um, so you, you talked about some of the, um, the conditions that the therapy will, [00:09:00] uh, We’ll help with, um, but who’s an ideal candidate for someone who might be considering this, uh, type of therapy?

Is it someone who’s gone through, uh, some sort of therapies in the past and, you know, maybe they just didn’t work? Or, or is it kind of a general, uh, use where, where a lot of, uh, different folks can use it?

Sam Mandel: Yeah, I mean, it’s really ideal for Anyone who has any of the mental health conditions who I mentioned, um, you know, depression, PTSD, anxiety, suicidal thinking, various types of depression like postpartum depression, bipolar depression, um, very effective and really there’s not a lot of reasons that it wouldn’t be a good fit for someone to be honest with you.

I mean, not a lot of contraindications. So we don’t see people with You know, certain personality [00:10:00] disorders or who are schizophrenic. We don’t see people who are actively homicidal. We don’t see bipolar patients during an episode of mania or hypomania. Other than that, there’s not a lot that would, you know, keep somebody from potentially being a good candidate.

We do tend to see a lot of patients who are considered treatment resistant by the time they come to us. So they’ve tried. Uh, usually at least a handful of other medications, usually, you know, conventional treatments like SSRIs and, uh, other, you know, pills, and they’ve gotten little to no benefit or the side effects are intolerable.

You know, I’d say that’s the, definitely the majority of our patients. And then, you know, some have also tried a lot of other things too, such as ECT or TMS or, you know, talk therapy and different kinds of other modalities and not really gotten a good result. And so they tend to be tougher. cases, people who really haven’t responded well to other things, but we also have people who don’t really want to go through that struggle of [00:11:00] trying all these different things and the side effects and how long you have to wait.

I mean, you know, conventional meds usually take four to six weeks to work. You have to adjust the dosages. Sometimes you have to combine different drugs. There’s often really bad side effects, you know, weight gain, loss of libido. Dry mouth, blurred vision, even increased suicidal thoughts and all kinds of issues there, you know, you know, and oftentimes if people do get a benefit, they might not feel as low, but they actually don’t feel very good either.

They just feel kind of numb and flat and locked in, and their scope of their kind of human experiences is narrowed. And, you know, of course, it’s great that they might have the ability to get out of bed and go to work when maybe before they Didn’t. But is that really a life that we want to strive for, where we’re just kind of existing?

You know, for me, that’s not what I want for myself. That’s not what I would want for our patients. And so ketamine really restores pleasure. It really gives people back a, a connection to themselves and to other people. Increased compassion for [00:12:00] themselves and others. And that’s really restorative. I mean, it’s unique in that way where people really actually feel good after getting a benefit from the treatment.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I, I had the, um, the effect that you described kind of described to me as almost like a scale where like negative emotions, like, like sad, depressed, uh, you know, angry, all these negative things are down on, on one end and happy, joy, pleasure, all this stuff is on, on the other end and with, you Some of the medications, like you said, it like brings both ends in to the center equally.

So, so like if, yeah, sure, you might be raising yourself up so you’re not completely, totally sad, depressed, suicidal, you know, whatever on, on the, the far end. Um, you know, of the negative end, um, but you’re bringing in the happy end, the joy, the pleasure. You’re bringing that in equally towards that center.

And so your whole range of emotions is this real narrow [00:13:00] band as opposed to the typically a wide band. Um, and that, that, like you said, is, that’s not, A way to enjoy life. You know, there’s joy is on that far other end of the spectrum. Right. And you, you’re now taking that out of the equation. And so, yeah, maybe, maybe you’re not sad all the time or depressed or, you know, whatever all the time.

Um, but you’re also never experiencing high ends of things either. And, and that’s. That’s kind of tough. Um, so yeah, restoring that joy, that pleasure in life. Um, that’s huge. Um, and I know quite a few people actually who’ve, um, who’ve just felt that way for the longest time, where they’ve just felt like there’s no pleasure.

There’s no joy. Um, And gosh, could you imagine the spark that would come through some of these people if, um, you know, all of a sudden they’re getting that, that [00:14:00] pleasure, that joy, the, um, you know, the, that good end of the spectrum to getting those emotions back, uh, you know, at some point and that,

Sam Mandel: it’s amazing.

Scott DeLuzio: yeah.

Sam Mandel: we see it all the time. I mean, every day we have patients who come in here, you know, who they haven’t had that experience in 10, 20, 30 years, you know, literally in their whole lives. And they, they feel great within a matter of days. I mean, one of the other very cool things about ketamine infusions is they work very quickly.

So usually within four or five days. Literally, people are feeling good, maybe a week. So, that’s just, there’s nothing else out there like it. And, it has a totally different mechanism of action. It affects the brain and the mind in ways that are unique to it that other treatments don’t. And so, that’s one of the reasons why it works when other things don’t.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, that’s, that’s awesome that it’s that fast acting and, um, how long do those effects typically last? So, so you get that, you know, within [00:15:00] the few days to maybe a week, you start feeling the, the positive effects of it. How long does that last afterwards?

Sam Mandel: Yeah, that’s a good question. So, on average, it’s around three months of relief. It varies depending on the patient and how much they’re going to engage in a healthy and active lifestyle. We make recommendations for them to focus on wellness. The things that a lot of people already know but have a hard time doing when they’re feeling depressed.

And so when they feel that relief and that energy and motivation that they get from the treatment, it’s a great time to capitalize and really, you know, carry that momentum forward. And so focusing on Exercise, good nutrition, good sleep, you know, uh, personal, uh, relationships, uh, whether they be intimate or just friends and family, but really reconnecting, you know, with interpersonal relationships and having meaningful connections with people, uh, and talk therapy.

Those are kind of the five big ones that we tend to focus on among other things, but those are the main points. [00:16:00] And so some patients who are able to really focus on that stuff, and be proactive about it. They can get six months, nine months, and others may still put forth their best effort there. But for whatever reason, their symptoms do come back sooner, and they might only get two months or even on the low end, one month of relief.

But on average, it’s around three. We’ve had a number of patients who have actually gone more than two years just off of one initial series, which is amazing. That’s definitely, you know, more than a couple Uh, standard deviations away. Those are outliers. That’s not the norm. That’s not anything that I would tell anyone to expect, but it’s possible because it’s happened more than once or twice.

Uh, though, on average, it’s around three months. Now, when people do need a followup treatment or, or boosters, we call them, they come back for two infusions. One or two days apart, and it extends the benefit for usually as long or longer as the initial series did. So people don’t need to come back for another full series of six, and as [00:17:00] time goes on, they usually return less and less often, as opposed to more.

So they get more mileage from each follow up visit, and there’s a lot to be said for getting that initial relief and momentum behind people, and again, just with the right support, right structure, that can really be maintained long term.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, I, that’s kind of what I was expecting you to say, as far as the, the duration and, uh, the necessity of the follow up, uh, booster, uh, you know, visits, um, because if you’re in the right state of mind, you know, you, you can experience the joy and the pleasure of life, um, you’re probably going to find yourself gravitating more towards that type of, I would imagine, and again, everybody’s going to be different, but, um, you know, from a, just my own thought process here, I would imagine people start to head more towards that.

And of course, there’s, there’s still things that you’re dealing with and, and you might have to go through talk therapy or, you know, other more traditional [00:18:00] types of therapy. But, um, but in some cases. It may just be too difficult to deal with whatever, maybe trauma that you’ve dealt with or, um, or whatever, it may be too hard to go through that without some sort of assistance, uh, like the, the ketamine, ketamine infusions, uh, because, uh, you just need that, um, it’s not, not a crutch, but you need that, that help just to kind of get over that, uh, that barrier.

So that way you can, um, Get the full benefit, like you were saying, of the talk therapy, of the other types of treatments that you might be going through. But then, as that improves, you know, the symptoms that you’ve been experiencing are going to be reduced and you’re going to have less and less need. For the therapy, uh, going forward.

And so, um, so yeah, maybe, maybe you need to follow up, uh, you know, a few more times down the line, but, um, then the, the, the length of time, uh, kind of [00:19:00] extends between each visit and that, um, ideally you get to the point where you don’t need it at all and, and that’s, uh, you know, probably the, the place where, where everyone is striving to get to, right.

Sam Mandel: Absolutely, yeah, and you know, it’s a treatment, it’s not a cure. There are patients who even just from one initial series don’t come back and they don’t really need to. Uh, and they just had whatever reason, whether it was life circumstances or whatever was going on, things had compounded for them and just put them in a bad, dark spot they couldn’t get out of, and once they were out of it, they felt like they were good.

You know, obviously life has all kinds of twists and turns and you never know down the line what could happen whether it’s an injury or the death of a loved one or loss of a job or whatever might happen that might kind of send someone spiraling and getting in, you know, relapsing on substances or whatever it is and getting into a dark space where they would need additional support.

So I think, you know, some people might have expectations that they would just be able to be cured or something. That’s just not how life works. [00:20:00] But, uh, you know, from what we see, this is the fastest acting, safest and most effective treatment available for depression and many other mood disorders.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I think the expectation should be, you know, for the listeners that it’s not a magic cure all, you go get this, this, this therapy and all of a sudden life is rainbows and unicorns and everything’s great, right? Things Our, you know, life still happens. Things could still go wrong. You still are going to have a bad day every once in a while because, uh, stuff happens, right?

You know, it’s just, um, you know, stuff at work, stuff in your personal relationships, things happen and you’re going to have. Uh, bad days from time to time, and that’s fine. That’s part of life. Um, that’s part of feeling that whole spectrum, that whole scale that I was talking about. You’re gonna, yeah, you’re still gonna have some of those bad days, but you’re gonna also have great days, too, uh, sometimes as [00:21:00] well.

And that’s, that’s part of it, I think. And you, You need to experience some of the negative stuff in order to appreciate the positive stuff. Um, and so when, when you’re going through these therapies, um, just realize you’re going to probably have to put some work in, um, to overcome whatever it is that you’re, you’re going through.

It’s not that magic pill, um, that just all of a sudden makes everything great. So, um, so yeah, you know, putting the work in, I think is, is an important thing to, To realize,

Sam Mandel: Yeah, you know, people have to participate in their own care. You know, we’re not doing something to them. We’re facilitating something, you know, for them and with them, and it is a collaborative process, and we’re really focusing on empowering patients to help to heal themselves in a lot of ways, and providing a space and a safe container for them.

[00:22:00] and access to an effective medicine that can be a tool to help with that. But it isn’t a magic bullet. It’s not the fix. We’re not magical. Ketamine is not magical. You know, they really have to, um, put in that work for sure and participate in the process. And if they do that, the results really are kind of magical, but it requires their participation for sure.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, it’s kind of like having a spotter at the gym. You know, someone there to, to kind of help you like it. You’re going to have to push that weight yourself, right? But if, if that’s getting to be a little too heavy for you, someone’s going to come and help, you know, put it back up on the bar. So, uh, put, or put the bar back up.

And, um, so you don’t end up having it come down crushing your face or whatever, you

Sam Mandel: Right. When you’ll be that friend in the gym that, you know, once you think you’re done, Instead of racking the weight, well, we’re going to help you, you know, squeak out another five reps. You didn’t think you had any, uh, you know what I mean?

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, exactly. And [00:23:00] so it’s, it’s that, that support, the help that, um, that you might need to get over that, that hurdle to get you just that much stronger or, or whatever, right? To, to get you to that certain point, but you got to put the work in yourself. It’s not like someone else, let me just go pay somebody else to go to the gym for me.

And all of a sudden I’m ripped. Like that’s, that’s not how it

Sam Mandel: even just, even just going with a, a, you know, an expensive trainer, personal trainer or something like that. And then thinking, well, you know, I went to the gym, I got this great trainer, but if you’re not actually putting in that work and if you’re not making sure that you’re eating well, And sleeping well and, and getting your rest and taking care of all of the other things that go along with, you know, health and wellness and fitness, uh, or you’re not on your own healthy routine outside of the times that you might be with your trainer, you’re not going to get results.

And a lot of people have experienced that for sure firsthand, so I think that’s a great analogy.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so for any of the listeners out there who might be [00:24:00] considering, uh, this type of therapy for themselves or even, uh, hearing about it and thinking maybe it’s a good fit for a loved one who might be struggling with any of these, uh, these mental health conditions, um, what advice or maybe insights might you have for them and, and how can they make a, uh, informed decision about, uh, whether or not it’s suitable for what, what they need?

Sure.

Sam Mandel: question. For people who have tried other treatments and not benefited, I think it’s kind of a no brainer. Uh, for people who have Maybe gotten some benefit but really negative side effects from other treatments or medications. I think it’s kind of a no brainer. Uh, for people who like the idea of a more kind of holistic approach and don’t like the idea of taking a drug every day or are concerned about being [00:25:00] kind of altered in the ways that we’ve discussed by having a medication on board every day, I think they should really seriously consider it.

It is really safe both. You know, medically and psychiatrically, we don’t really see negative side effects short term or very minimal. Sometimes a little bit of nausea or dizziness or fatigue just on the day of treatment subsides after a night of sleep. Long term, there’s no known long term side effects.

So, you know, when we’re talking about the therapeutic and clinical use of ketamine. So, the risks are very, very low if you go to a responsible clinic. And obviously, everything that we’re talking about is in a professional setting. So I’m not advocating that anybody, uh, do ketamine on their own. Uh, that comes with risks aside from being illegal.

Uh, and it is a very powerful medicine and it can cause harm and, uh, sometimes even death. So this is really about the therapeutic use of ketamine. [00:26:00] We have a clinic that’s purpose built. We have licensed and trained medical professionals, psychiatrists, psychiatric nurse practitioners, registered nurses, and anesthesiologists, and a whole, a whole admin team.

So There’s a, we, you know, we also monitor people’s vital signs, hospital grade monitoring equipment for their pulse and oxygen saturation, EKG, blood pressure, respiratory rate. So there’s a lot that goes into making sure that people are not only safe but comfortable during these treatments. So, uh, I just want to be clear, we’re talking about that and just that as far as ketamine goes.

And, you know, As, as amazing as it is, it doesn’t work for everyone. The risks are low in terms of it causing harm to you, but it’s possible it might not work. So, um, you know, just want to put that out there as well. It works most of the time. In our clinic, we have an 83 percent success rate. That’s really, really high, but it’s not 100%, and there is no such thing as 100%.

Nothing works [00:27:00] for everyone, every time. So, I also want to make that clear, and it is not a good fit for everyone. As I mentioned, some of the personality disorders, schizophrenia, homicidal, or there may be other situations of someone who’s bipolar, actively, uh, you know, manic or hypomanic. Or some other situations where for whatever reason, it’s just not a real good fit for someone.

And we, you know, we address that on a case by case basis, but I also just want to be clear that I’m not saying that this is for everyone, but I am saying it’s actually for most people because even more mild cases, You don’t have to be a really severe case to actually really benefit from this treatment.

So, I would say that most people, not all, but most can really benefit from this treatment. And I would recommend that they, you know, look for a reputable place to try it if, or at least to learn more.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, and I, I like that you, you brought up the legality of doing it on your own, uh, kind of thing, right? Because that’s, that is not a legal, [00:28:00] uh, approach, at least here in the United States. I don’t know other countries and other, uh, laws and how they, they handle things, but

Sam Mandel: actually, yeah. Yeah,

Scott DeLuzio: so that’s, that’s just, that’s not a good option, but I think if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna go down that, that road and you’re gonna, uh, try this, um, to me it makes the most sense to have it done legally, to have, uh, you know, trained medical professionals who have, That’s all the words that are there monitoring you and making sure that you’re doing it safely and it’s doing the job that it’s supposed to do and it’s not causing harm, um, because that’s the last thing you want is to be, um, you know, depressed or, you know, struggling with PTSD and then also having another medical condition on top of it because you, you know, use the medication in a inappropriate way.

So, um, you know, having someone there who’s able to monitor that and, uh, able to, uh, Have your best interest in mind, uh, as you’re, as you’re going through this, uh, therapy. Um, I [00:29:00] think that just makes the most sense, right? So, um, I know your facility is located in, uh, Los Angeles. Um, for the folks who are in that area, um, Where can they go to get in touch with you?

Where are you located? Um, and for the folks who are not in, in that area and, uh, are looking for someone maybe closer to them, uh, what should they look for in a clinic that, that can provide this type of therapy? Sure,

Sam Mandel: in Los Angeles in Culver City. We’re on the west side of town. We’re on the west side of Culver City, so right where it turns into Westchester, Playa del Rey. And we have a 5, 000 square foot, you know, purpose built facility. It’s really serene and modern and people can call us at 310 270 0625 or they can go to our website ketamineclinics.

com And they can learn a lot of information. Contact us. We offer free consultations. We’re more than happy [00:30:00] to speak with anyone. Um, for people who are not local, in some cases we do actually have people who will travel to us because of our reputation. I know that’s not feasible for everyone, but Uh, we do have some people who choose to do that, so it is an option and, uh, for some.

And for those who it’s not, I would say, you know, there’s a lot that goes into finding a good clinic to just rattle off a few things. I would try to focus on the IV route, find someone who’s offering actual infusions, go to a place that has a good doctor who seems caring and experienced and really focused on this work.

Not someone who’s just doing a little bit of this on the side, uh, they do a couple on Fridays because the clinic is slow, um, you know, but otherwise, you know, they’re focused on, um, you know, nerve blocks or some other thing, you [00:31:00] know, um, so Get Someone has really built their practice around this kind of work, and Get Someone who has more of a team based environment.

There’s a lot of kind of solo practitioners out there. We have a staff of a dozen. Uh, the level of kind of time and attention, individual care we can provide with a larger team is, I think, very valuable for patients and sometimes, you know, a solo provider isn’t able to do as much because they’re just limited in all of the things that go along with running their practice.

So, I think a team kind of practice is good, a place that has adequate monitoring equipment in place, safety measures, find out about the facility, what it’s like, you know, I would recommend going to an actual medical. office building or medical center, not a strip mall. Uh, you know, make sure that it’s like an actual, you know, respectable place.

It’s in a good area that it’s, you know, seems to be in a safe area that it’s clean. [00:32:00] Uh, when you call that they are able to answer your questions, you know, accurately and confidently. And if you speak with them more than once, you get consistent answers. That they don’t hard sell you or pressure you, that they take the time to care, to get to know you and your unique needs, and help you to assess if it’s the right fit or not.

And look at reviews online, uh, Yelp, Google, etc. You know, do they have good reviews, do they have two, or do they have two hundred? You know, as well. And do they look like they’re a bunch that their friends and family wrote, or are they actual patients, you know? So, I’d say those are some of the, of the key things that I would recommend people look for.

And, you know, also just how long someone’s been around. I mean, do they just pop up a week ago, or have they been doing this work for years? You know, I think that that’s also something to consider.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah, all great advice. I think, um, when, when you’re considering this for yourself or for a loved one, um, yeah, definitely do your research. Um, you don’t want to [00:33:00] end up with somebody who is just a fly by night kind of thing, or, uh, just does it on the side when, when business is slow or whatever, you know, um, you, you want to, you want to make sure it’s someone who knows what they’re doing and is experienced in it, um, and I think that, that kind of.

Uh, goes for a lot of different treatments, uh, that you might be considering is, um, you know, just make sure that the provider that you’re going with knows what they’re doing, uh, before, before you go with them. So, um, great advice there. Um, appreciate that. Um, cause I, I do know, um, you know, ideally, um, you guys are the probably industry leaders as far as the treatments go.

Um, but realistically, it’s not. Feasible for everybody, uh, you know, across the country to be able to travel out there. So, um, especially for, for, you know, multiple treatments and things like that. So, uh, but if you can, if you can make it out in that area, if you’re, um, you know, in. At least in that area, uh, you know, in the LA area or, uh, near enough that you can get there, um, [00:34:00] definitely, uh, check them out.

And I’ll have, uh, your contact information in the show notes for the listeners. So, uh, anyone who’s looking to get in touch with you to find out more about what you guys do, um, they’ll be able to find that in the show notes. Um, so, so definitely check that out, um, for the listeners there. Before we wrap up the show, uh, at the end of the show, I like to kind of switch things up a bit, add a little humor, a little, uh, light, lighthearted, uh, way to, to kind of end the show, and I’ve done this, this segment a few times, um, I’ve done a bunch of things, you know, jokes and, uh, funny videos and things like that, um, but I like trying to, uh, do a little bit of trivia, see if we can stump the guest, see, see how, see how that goes.

So if you’re up for it, I’d like to, uh, try to do just a few quick questions, see how you do. And, um, there’s no, there’s no prize at the end, so it doesn’t matter even if you get them all wrong. Um, but if you’re up for it, um, let’s, uh, we, we can, we can maybe try this quick segment here [00:35:00] and, uh, then we can wrap things up.

Sam Mandel: Yeah, I’m actually not great at trivia, so I’m a little bit nervous, but let’s give it a shot.

Scott DeLuzio: Okay, well, you know what? Don’t worry about it. Even if, even if you don’t get the answers right, we can still have a, have a good time trying to figure out some of these, these questions. And it might be, might be entertaining for some of the listeners anyway. So, um, first question here. The unicorn is the national animal of which country?

It’s a tricky one. It actually is the national animal of a country. I’ll give you a hint, it’s a European country.

Sam Mandel: I don’t know what.

Scott DeLuzio: It’s Scotland. I

Sam Mandel: No way!

Scott DeLuzio: only imagine the conversation, like, as they’re sitting around trying to figure out, like, What’s our national animal going to be? You know, like, some, some drunk dude comes out, it’s like, let’s make it the frickin unicorn or

Sam Mandel: That’s amazing. I didn’t know that. That’s, I’ve never heard that before. That’s amazing.

Scott DeLuzio: It’s like they’re just trying to [00:36:00] finish up the list and just, whatever, unicorn, let’s just hand it in. It’s like, like you’re answering the question at the end of a, you know, a test. Like, you got two minutes left, you got five questions left. You can just write down anything, just to see. Okay, which soft drink once contained cocaine as one of its

Sam Mandel: Coca Coca Cola.

Scott DeLuzio: There you go. I thought that was going to be an easy one. Um, Which U. S. state is the furthest west?

Sam Mandel: Hawaii?

Scott DeLuzio: Actually, Alaska. Now, here’s the other, here’s the opposite question. Which state is the furthest east?

Sam Mandel: It’s not Florida, is it?

Scott DeLuzio: No, no, it’s actually also Alaska. Because the, uh, Aleutian Islands cross the Prime Meridian, and so it’s both East and West. Where, where East, where West becomes East. So it’s, it actually crosses that line, uh, where, [00:37:00] where West becomes East. And so you’d actually go furthest, like the zero degrees, it’s all the way out, it’s actually in Alaska.

So, um, East and West, both Alaska.

Sam Mandel: That’s interesting. I know that, um, you know, a lot of people think of, like, Key West and Florida as, like, the southernmost part of the United States, but it’s actually in Hawaii. It’s on the big island of Hawaii in South Kona. Um, and there’s a, uh, area, I think it’s called South Point, uh, and it’s, it is the southernmost point in the United States.

I, I went cliff jumping there last year. It was pretty amazing.

Scott DeLuzio: Oh, cool, cool. Yeah. It’s, it’s, uh Just these are kind of the tricky trivia questions, you

Sam Mandel: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay. What else we got?

Scott DeLuzio: All right, the last one I’ll wrap it up with with this one What was America’s first National Park?

Sam Mandel: Yosemite?

Scott DeLuzio: There you go. Oh, no. Sorry Yosemite. You said Yellowstone Yellowstone was the first. All [00:38:00] good.

Sam Mandel: those are all good questions.

Scott DeLuzio: Good questions. I think we had a little fun doing it. Um, like I said, there’s no prizes at the end. So whether you got them all right or all wrong, we’re going to end the show the same way, so it doesn’t really matter.

Um, but it’s

Sam Mandel: to wrap it up.

Scott DeLuzio: It’s been a privilege, though, to talk to you and hear about the type of work that you do through Ketamine Clinics Los Angeles. Really grateful for your commitment to making a meaningful impact on the lives of those who are struggling with these mental health challenges. So thank you for what you do and also for coming on the show and sharing with us here today.

Sam Mandel: Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure, Scott. I appreciate it.

Scott DeLuzio: Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, [00:39:00] Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.