Episode 374 Gene Reid Emotional Intelligence in Law Enforcement and the Military Transcript

This transcript is from episode 374 with guest Gene Reid.

Scott DeLuzio: [00:00:00] Thanks for tuning in to the Drive On Podcast where we are focused on giving hope and strength to the entire military community. Whether you’re a veteran, active duty, guard, reserve, or a family member, this podcast will share inspirational stories and resources that are useful to you. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio, and now let’s get on with the show.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Drive On. I’m your host, Scott DeLuzio. And today, my guest is Gene Reid. As a seasoned police officer, Gene has demonstrated his expertise in various aspects of law enforcement from He’s Investigative Tasks to Administrative Duties, and as the founder of ReidSolutions, Gene is on a mission to empower others with information to excel in their chosen paths with a doctorate in criminal justice and a master’s degree in education.

His academic pursuits reflect his commitment to enhancing the well being of fellow officers and contributing to the advancement of the [00:01:00] criminal justice profession. In this episode, we’re going to focus on Gene’s expertise in emotional intelligence. And considering that there’s a lot of crossover in this area between law enforcement and military, I thought Gene would make a great guest to share his perspective on all of this.

But first I want to welcome you to the show, Gene. I’m really glad to have you here.

Gene Reid: Yeah, thanks, Scott. That was a great intro, man. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Scott DeLuzio: I, you know, when I, whenever I have a guest come on, I want to try to, you know, give them the, you know, the good kickstart, you know, before, before this episode goes in and, uh, you know, especially given your, your profession, um, you know, uh, in, in law enforcement and everything, um, You know, to me, the way I was raised, the way I was brought up was that, uh, folks who put on a uniform and go out there and, and potentially put their lives on the line for other people, um, those are the, the folks that you look up to.

It’s not the, the The athletes [00:02:00] and the actors and the singers and all that kind of stuff. It was, it was those people who a lot of times you don’t even know who those people are. You, you don’t, you don’t have a first name basis with a lot of, a lot of those people, but, um, those are the, the, the folks that I, I looked up to, uh, you know, growing up.

And, um, you know, so I wanted to do that justice with the, the intro. So I’m glad that, that that worked out.

Gene Reid: Yeah, You know what’s funny about that? Uh, I’m the first police officer in my family, so nobody in my family was in law enforcement, and I think I picked it just to be different. Um, I can’t even say that I had this role model of a police officer that I looked up to. My whole family’s in, in public service.

They’re teachers, nurses, all that kind of stuff, but, uh, I think I just became a cop to be different, to be honest with you.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, honestly though, it’s not totally different if you think about it, you know, between like nurses and teachers, they’re serving other people, um, you know, in a, obviously in a much different capacity, but, um, you know, it’s, there could be some stress in some of those jobs as well and not, um, You know, [00:03:00] not, not to the, not to the same degree, maybe as, as law enforcement, but, um, you know, in, in different cases, they have, they have quite a bit of stress, especially, uh, you know, in the healthcare profession, people’s lives might be on the line, um, that, that could be, uh, that could be quite stressful as well, but, um, so it seems like you, you come from a family of professionals.

Folks who like to serve other people. And that’s, that’s an awesome thing to have too. So, um, but let’s talk a little bit more about your, your journey, your background, um, that led you to become, uh, this expert in emotional intelligence and, and tell us what it is, what is emotional intelligence and what is it that, that it is that, um, that you focus on.

Gene Reid: background. So I actually started in law enforcement when I was 18. Um, so I live in New Jersey and anybody from the kind of Mid Atlantic region starts out. Most of us started as like a seasonal police officer. So I started out in Wildwood, New Jersey, did that for a couple of years.

And then at the ripe age of 20, I had it [00:04:00] really just in my head. I wanted to be a state trooper. So I applied to basically every state police organization on the East Coast. Uh, Maryland State Police was who got me through the process quickest, uh, so I actually worked for them for a couple of years. And then I met my now wife, and I actually had to leave MSP, not, nothing to do with the organization, great organization.

But us being from New Jersey, we’re planning on having kids, my family’s here, her family’s here, it just wasn’t the right time to, you know, kind of up and leave. that area. So then I found Newcastle County Police, cause nothing against New Jersey, but at that time they were switching over their pension system.

They’re moving to this 30 year pension. And even at the age of 22, 23 years old, I thought to myself, that seems like a long time. Like, I really, I don’t know if I want to do this for 30 years. So then a buddy of mine told me about, uh, Newcastle County Police, which is where I am now in Delaware, and I’ve been there for the last 12 years.

But really like across that whole journey, [00:05:00] this concept of, uh, really leadership has always been fascinating to me. I was very lucky early on. I had a lot of phenomenal leaders. Um, you know, even from my time in Walled Wood to Maryland State Police, a lot of super squared away people that came into my life.

And when I came over to the County Police I had a former chief of police and a couple other supervisors come to me and tell me, Hey, now I want to say this, at the time I didn’t have my bachelor’s degree. I had left school, I left college to go to the Academy for Maryland State Police. Again, it’s all the better wisdom of my mother and my father and everybody.

But again, I just kind of wanted to be different. So they kind of came to me and they said, Hey, listen, uh, you’re very articulate and you present yourself well, you’re really missing a big part of the puzzle here. You, you have to get educated. Uh, so me personally, and really coming from a competitive athletic background, I just thought to myself, even before I had a bachelor’s degree.

I thought to myself, what’s the highest level of this? What’s the big thing? It’s like, [00:06:00] Oh, well, you could get a PhD, but nobody really does that. I’m like, okay, well I’m going to go do that. And basically I was in school for about eight years, getting my bachelor’s degree into master’s into PhD. And, uh, really just studying a whole bunch of things.

I got my master’s degree in education. I love presenting things to people. I love teaching and I only came across this concept of emotional intelligence probably over the last year and a half. And I was always searching, right? I think you’re probably very similar. Always reading new leadership books.

What’s the latest and greatest thing out there? My goodness, there’s more leadership philosophies, and tips, and tricks, and theories. And I just kind of got tired of it. I was like, I need to find something that’s short, sweet, and to the point. And that’s how I came across emotional intelligence. Just kind of on a whim, I was just, I don’t even remember what I was reading.

But emotional intelligence, it breaks it down into four key areas. It’s you as an individual, you have to be self aware of your own emotions, you have to be able to [00:07:00] manage your emotions, you have to be aware of social awareness, like your social interactions, these other little social dynamics that are going on all around you, and then ultimately you have to manage your relationships.

So those four things made total sense to me. Uh, self awareness standpoint, I’ve always, just from an athletic standpoint, always been trying to improve my physical fitness and become more aware of that kind of stuff. So that clicked right away. And then self management, same thing with the fitness, like it kind of came right into it.

And I would see leaders that I really respected, they would get into these high pressure situations and they were just cool, calm, and collected, like cool as a cucumber. And that’s what clicked for me, I was like, oh, well that’s, that’s the self management thing. I’m sure they’re anxious, I’m sure they’re feeling some kind of way, but here they are just managing that emotion.

And then social awareness, they had this ability, and these leaders that I had early. Um, interactions with, they were just really good at breaking down barriers. Like they, maybe they were a [00:08:00] captain or a major, they can go have a conversation with anybody, you know, and that’s kind of like the relationship management part of it.

So when I found emotional intelligence, I latched onto that thing and just really started applying it to everything that I do from a leadership perspective.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, when you’re talking about, um, like managing. These emotions and, and being in a high stress situation, just seeing the people who are just cool as a cucumber, they’re, they’re able to just go through. I think there’s a, and correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I think there’s some stuff that you do beforehand to get to that point, but so you can’t expect somebody to. Just be presented with a stressful situation. And then they’re just going to be like, all right, cool. I got this. And I, and I’m not going to panic. I’m not going to freak out or anything. I just, I just got this. Right. So there’s a degree of, of training, maybe that that’s involved, uh, to get yourself to that point.

Um, but [00:09:00] there’s also. Uh, probably this, this mindset that you have to have that if you panic in, in those kinds of situations, you have to understand that the panicking isn’t going to add any value to the situation. Right. And so that I think once, when you’ve harnessed that. Um, and, and understood that that panic doesn’t serve you at all.

Then you’re able to kind of, you know, take a, take a breath, take a look around, evaluate the situation and, and react to whatever is, is going on. Um, you know, when I learned how to scuba dive when I was young, and one of the things that they taught us when, when we were scuba diving is. If your mask comes off your face somehow, somebody’s, you know, somebody’s swimming in front of you and they kick it off your face or something happens, it comes off your face.

Don’t panic. Panic isn’t going to help you. Like you’re going to end up breathing more. You’re using all the air in your [00:10:00] tank and you know, it’s just not going to help you. Stop. Think about what happened. What do you need to do to fix a situation and do it and, and kind of think through the whole process.

And, um, that kind of gives you the, the, the mindset that you have to, um, kind of prepare for the worst. Right. And that, that to me seems like what you’re, you’re talking about. Right.

Gene Reid: Absolutely. Yeah. You, you, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, so me personally, uh, I love jujitsu. I like doing like really difficult things. I got involved in triathlons kind of early on after my athletic career in high school. And once I became a police officer, I was kind of missing like this competitive thing.

I really needed something. Got involved in triathlons. Again, just kind of my personality. I asked somebody, what’s the big triathlon thing? And they said to do an Ironman, but not many people do Ironman. So I was like, okay, well, I’m going to do an Ironman. But again, same concept of like, if you go for a long run in the morning, or you [00:11:00] go and train jujitsu, or you do some hard physical endeavor.

Yes, it’s good for your physical well being, but you’re mentally training yourself. I can almost guarantee, if you go train jiu jitsu in the morning, there’s nothing else you’re going to encounter that day that will be as difficult as what you did that morning. And that’s the whole thing, like you just said, even with the scuba diving.

It’s funny you just said that. Scuba diving terrifies me, which means I should probably go and learn how to do it. Um, but man, what a great The first time you have your mask come off should not be when you’re Out on a dive, like by yourself, you should probably practice that 150 times before that actually happens.

And then, man, you also hit on something with the panic thing. It’s, I wish it just wasn’t human nature. I don’t know why we have this instinct to panic. I’m sure it serves a function like the flight or fight function. I’m sure there is, but it serves no purpose. It really doesn’t.

Scott DeLuzio: Right. Yeah. I mean, uh, other than like, you know, funny videos that you might see, like [00:12:00] if, you know, someone sees a snake, you know, slither across the path or whatever, and they freak out and they jump and they run and, you know, spill stuff along the way. Like, I mean, there’s, there is a purpose there because I like to laugh at those kinds of things, but, um, you’re right.

I mean, in, in reality, there’s really no purpose, uh, to, to panicking. And so this emotional intelligence, it’s, it’s more than just. Panicking, freaking out, I’m sure. But, um, this is something that it’s, it’s important for, you know, especially law enforcement and military to kind of develop and, and cultivate this, this, I guess, a skillset really, because it’s, I don’t, it’s probably not. Uh, you know, second, second hand or second nature to, to people who, um, you know, just come across a situation. They just tell themselves, oh gee, don’t panic. You know, it probably has to be something that’s learned. Right. Is that, that kind of along the lines of like, what, you know, the police and military kind of need to develop,

Gene Reid: Yeah, it’s [00:13:00] accurate. And actually, I think the first pillar of emotional intelligence, that’s self awareness. I could talk. I actually have, I have a whole presentation. I just give on self awareness. The next book I’m writing is all about self awareness. But just that one pillar, I mean, yeah, it comes down to training.

But, man, you gotta put yourself in situations as a police officer in the military to find out how you’re gonna react. Because if you don’t, then you’re just kidding yourself, to be honest with you. Like, you know, you see people, they’ll talk a big game and say like, Oh, if this happened to me, I would have done this.

How could you possibly know that you don’t know, you have no idea. And as police officers and in the military, you know, you get put in some pretty crazy situations, which is why the training is, is, is the way it is. But yeah, you have to cultivate emotional intelligence as a skill. You have to become self aware.

That’s not easy for me personally, physical fitness and those kinds of endeavors have been my roadmap to self [00:14:00] awareness, but also just putting myself, dude, I used to be terrified of public speaking. And now, literally, I have a business where I do public speaking. That’s what I do. And now I’m actually excited about it.

I love it. I really do. But that took time. And that took preparation and asking people to tell me, you know, basic feedback on my speaking skills and whatnot. But then, you gotta learn how to manage your emotions. You know, I talk about this one scenario, like we talked about before I came on here. I’m recording these videos for Police One.

We’re doing like a 10 part. Leadership series, which is pretty cool. One of the situations I talk about when I first got promoted to the rank of sergeant, one of my young officers got involved in a pursuit. He basically didn’t listen to me on the radio and then they continued the pursuit. They crashed. It was a whole big thing.

And I was pissed. I was not happy. And this was kind of before I knew about emotional intelligence, but as I showed up on scene. I remember being [00:15:00] aware, okay, I feel upset, but I can’t yell at this kid. I cannot yell at this kid right now because there’s things that have to get done. We got four juveniles involved in a foot pursuit somewhere.

Somebody’s hurt here. Um, but that’s emotional intelligence. Like I never thought that that’s what emotional intelligence was, but now looking back on my career, all these different situations. And just with that short story with this kid, with the pursuit. Um, when I showed up on scene, there were six other members of my team there and two other police jurisdictions.

So you want to talk about social awareness. Me as now the supervisor on scene, I had to be like, okay, if I lose my shit on this kid, it’s going to forever change my relationships with all these people. So I just need to relax, handle the situation. I might yell at him later, but I can’t do it right now. But that’s emotional intelligence.

That’s what, that’s what this whole thing is.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And yeah, as you were talking, it reminded me of, uh, a story that I, I had on the show, uh, from another guest, uh, a couple months ago, [00:16:00] and he was talking about how. He was flying, uh, he was a helicopter pilot. He was flying and his helicopter got shot up and badly damaged. He had to fly back to base. Um, his co pilot was, was hit by some of the, the rounds that came through the helicopter.

And he’s got, you know, this guy bleeding out in the back. Um, he’s got a damaged helicopter, but he had walked through that scenario in his head thousands of times. Of what happens if this thing fails. And I, you know, I, I’m not a helicopter guy, so I don’t know what that thing is. He said it in the episode.

I just don’t remember. Um, if this thing fails, how do I continue to fly? What do I do? And he, he would go through the motions, like, like almost just sitting there, you know, before bed. And he’s like going through the motions of, you know, the controls and everything else. Um, And so when it [00:17:00] actually happened and that thing failed, it was just second nature to him and he just walked right through it.

Um, but he didn’t like, like you were saying, just, just a second ago, he didn’t lose, lose his shit and just start like freaking out and, and, you know, yelling and screaming and, you know, you got a guy out in the back bleeding out and he’s like, you know, he, he just, you know, calm, let’s, let’s handle the situation as, um, as it, as it’s coming to us and, and kind of just deal with it.

And we’ll, we’ll get through it, but not if we lose our shit. Um, and that, that social piece of it that you mentioned, uh, I can only imagine, uh, the, the inter department, um, you know, conflicts that would, it would have occurred if you started yelling at, at, uh, you know, that officer, um, with those other departments, uh, you know, nearby as well.

Gene Reid: It’s funny you say that, so I’ve actually had conversations. I talked about this story on one of my most recent podcast episodes. And there are people at work who listen to it, and that’s great. [00:18:00] But I actually, I had some of the older leadership come to me and say, Dude, you should have berated that kid.

Because guess what? He would have never done that ever again. And my response to that was, you’re right. He would have never done that ever again. You’re right. That would have never happened. However, the lasting ramifications of doing that now, like the other jurisdictions see how we treat our people, the other six people on my team, they’re never going to do anything now.

They’re going to, as far as creativity goes. They’re never going to push any boundaries, ever, because they know that if Sergeant Reid shows up, he’s just going to embarrass you in front of everybody. So, you are correct. If you yell at them, they will stop that behavior, but man, the long term ramifications?

No way. And back to the helicopter story, that’s the epitome of being a professional. I talk about this all the time. There’s amateur hour, and then there’s being a professional. If you’re in a professional organization, it’s your responsibility to do what that gentleman did. You got to rehearse these [00:19:00] things.

You got to rehearse. And guess what? Nobody’s going to force you to do it. Nobody, I mean, I expect people to do that, but nobody’s going to be checking on you every night, making sure you’re doing it. You got to have some inner fortitude within you to, uh, imagine if he didn’t imagine if he didn’t go through those scenarios He would have panicked and people probably would have died, right?

I mean,

Scott DeLuzio: And yeah, and then. Also think of, um, you know, sure, yeah, between him and, and the, the co pilot who was on there, they, they both could have, uh, been killed if the helicopter had crashed, um, the, the crash would have obviously cost, you know, millions of dollars of equipment and, and all that kind of stuff.

There’s, there’s a lot to it, uh, that, uh, like you said, he was a professional. He, he went, went and did. What he needed to do, um, to make sure that this problem, uh, didn’t become a bigger problem. You’re gonna, you’re gonna face problems in, in life, [00:20:00] in your job, whatever, you’re gonna face them, but it’s how you deal with them.

I think that, that makes the difference, right?

Gene Reid: yeah, I’m saying I just gave a talk It’s called the program is called command and leadership. It’s a West Point run command and leadership program and our department hosts This training and basically these police officers come once a week I don’t know how long the program is I think it’s five or six months, but they come from all over And I gave them a talk on resiliency and stress management.

Again, that’s kind of my, my thing, my area of expertise, but I told them, if you think that once you become resilient, that problems are just going to stop happening to you. You’re in for a rude awakening. You’re probably arguably going to get more problems. You’re just get better at solving them. So I think that’s a huge step for people just recognize your life will never be short of problems.

The only difference is how well you can handle them. And that’s on you. That’s up to you how you want to Go that route.

Scott DeLuzio: And that, that affects all [00:21:00] sorts of things, uh, like decision making, conflict resolution, um, And, and your effectiveness in those high stress situations too, right? That, that all, um, ties into this emotional intelligence, right?

Gene Reid: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a whole big picture. And again, at the end of the, it’s really the four of four, right? It’s the fourth pillar of relationship management, but man, I’ve said like, that’s what this whole thing’s about. That’s like, if you’re in a leadership position and I don’t even like talking about that, it’s funny because, so I have the rank of sergeant in our department.

That’s basically the first official supervisory role. You have to take a test. You got to get promoted. It’s a whole big thing. Um, I was hesitant to start my training and coaching business despite having a PhD, despite having 15 years in law enforcement, despite having all these things, because I only had the rank of sergeant.

Um, and then I had a conversation with a couple of people [00:22:00] like, dude, don’t think of leadership as like a title thing. You’re just a sergeant in this one department. I mean, just because there wasn’t an opening for a lieutenant or whatever the case may be. You know, you could be a first year officer and be a leader and you should be, you know what I mean?

And actually we’re, we’re trying to change that now in our own department to where you’re getting leadership training in the academy. You’re going to throw a one week long leadership development program right after the academy. But I can tell you this, I think the military does a very good job of that.

Just speaking with some of the guys in our department. But law enforcement is way behind the curve on that. And this, it’s almost like, uh, like a club you have to come into to become a leader. But really, everybody should be learning about leadership, like, from day one.

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. And just thinking from a military context, you know, if you’re, if you’ve got a, you know, a squad who’s out there and they have their, their, uh, squad leader who is kind of the guy, he’s, he’s a top level guy in that, uh, [00:23:00] hierarchy there, and they’re out doing whatever it is that, whatever their mission is. He gets, he gets hit and he’s, he’s out. He gets killed. Who’s left? Somebody has got to step up and take that leadership role. And, uh, what happens if multiple people get, get injured or killed? Uh, somebody who is not in that, that role, they got to step up and they got to become the leader. Now they are the one who is making the calls and, and, uh, you know, taking charge of the situation.

Um, You can’t just sit there and freak out and be like, I don’t want to be that guy. Well, tough. You are, you got thrown into that situation and, um, you know, nobody likes it. Nobody wants to have to be there. Just like the helicopter pilot who walked through what happens if X happens. Okay. Well. As a, you know, a private in, in this, this squad, um, what happens if your leadership, [00:24:00] uh, is, is taken out?

Well, now you are the leader of the squad and now you have to take charge and you have to be, uh, you know, making those decisions and, and getting them to, uh, you know, a medevac and all that kind of stuff. You, you have to be able to figure that stuff out, um, without freaking out and panicking, um, and, and manage your.

Your emotions, like you were talking about before.

Gene Reid: Yeah, there’s so many times, and this is perfect for law enforcement, but, you know, there’s so many times as a police officer, even when I was 21 years old, you’re first on scene for something, uh, you’re it. You’re it, buddy. You better figure this out. And especially when I was at Maryland State Police, that was honestly one of the best training grounds.

From an academy standpoint, yes, but I worked in Wicomico County. Uh, there was two, if not maybe three troopers for the whole county. Good luck. Like, you’re on your own. You gotta have the mentality to like, Dude, ain’t nobody coming to save me. I better figure this out. And there was many times, you [00:25:00] know, that you just gotta figure it out.

And that comes from a mentality standpoint. Um, you’re the leader. Like, and just think about it from the public’s perspective. When a police officer shows up They expect the police officer to fix whatever the thing is, fix the problem, so you are effectively the leader. So if you have this mindset that I’m just an officer first class, I only have two years on the job, you’re setting yourself up for failure.

Scott DeLuzio: And you know, I, I actually had this thought last night. So I was out shopping. Um, I was at home depot, right? And my car was in the parking lot and another car came close to hitting my car. I was walking out of, of the store and I saw this happening. It came close, didn’t hit my car. Turned out everything was fine.

Um, car’s still fine. They drove off. No, no problem. Um, But I started, what if ing in my head, like, what if he did hit my car? Like, what’s the next thing that I do? If the guy didn’t see me there and [00:26:00] know that it was my car, like, would he have just driven away? Like, how do I, how do I do that? And I started just game planning.

Like, what do I do? Do I call the police? Do I, you know, what, what is that next step? Um. It was just a scenario that hadn’t really occurred to me until I saw that and I was like, Oh, now I, I need to come up with a game plan for that. And so, um, there’s so many situations just, I mean, that’s just a small thing in, you know, probably a minor inconvenience in, in life, but there’s so many things in your careers, in your personal lives, everything that.

A lot of times we just don’t even think about them happening, but it’s good to have a game plan. Like what, what do you do if something happens? You know, if, if there’s this, this problem, how do we solve it without losing our heads?

Gene Reid: Yeah, one of the first things, it’s funny, I don’t know why this just popped in my head, but I remember as a very young kid, probably like four or five years old, Uh, my parents coming up with like a fire escape plan, like, Hey, if the house catches [00:27:00] on fire, this is how you eject your screen from your window.

And we’re going to meet at this location, right? Like, guess what? That never happens. Our house never caught on fire, but we plan for that situation. And even when I go out in my family now, like initially my wife thought I was crazy with a lot of the things like conversations I would have, especially now that we have kids, we have two young kids.

Um, pretty much every time we go somewhere, there’s, we don’t really have to talk about it much anymore, there’s a game plan in place. You know what I mean? Like, hey, if shit hits the fan, you are taking the kids and going here, and then, you know, we have things in place. But man, you never talk about that stuff because you just want to act like, Oh, it’s never going to happen.

Well, it’s like training Jiu Jitsu. I knock on wood, we’ll probably never, um, I’ll be honest. Like I haven’t had many physical confrontations in my 15 year law enforcement career. Maybe that’s the way that I carry myself. Maybe that’s because of my physical appearance. I don’t know, [00:28:00] but I still train as if that could happen.

You know what I mean? I think that’s where a lot of people probably give off like scared energy, scared, nervous, anxious energy, because they know when shit hits the fan, they’re really not ready as opposed to the men and women that really prep. I think that’s why they come off as cool, calm and collected because.

They are. They know if something happens, they’ve already done this in their head, they already know what’s going to happen.

Scott DeLuzio: Or, or they’ve done it in real life and in a training situation, you know, you’re training Jiu Jitsu. You, you have been in that physical, uh, you know, contact with other people and, and you know how to, uh, you know, apply, you know, whatever it is that you’re doing to. So do whoever it is that, that you need to, um, fight against.


Gene Reid: Yeah, I don’t know, I’ve been training for a few years and I’m pretty terrible at Jiu Jitsu, so, I don’t know.

Scott DeLuzio: but yeah, you’re better than someone who’s never [00:29:00] done it, you know, ever, right. And you have at least some awareness, uh, you’re talking about that self awareness, you know, you know what your limitations are. So, you know, you’re not going to go, um. Doing, you know, high level stuff. I don’t do jujitsu, so I don’t know really what I’m talking about, but you know, you’re not going to, you’re not going to push yourself to that point.

You’re going to stay within your, your, uh, your comfort zone if there is a, uh, you know, physical, uh, you know, interaction and chances are most people out there haven’t done any sort of training. So you already got to step up against, you know, most of those people. Right. So, um. So talking about physical fitness and exercise and that type of thing.

Is there, you mentioned a little bit about going out for like a long run or doing something physically difficult. Um. How, how, anything else that gets thrown at you that day probably isn’t going to be any harder than that thing that you, you [00:30:00] did, you know, first thing in the morning. Um, how do you think that, that physical fitness side of things and emotional intelligence kind of intersect, uh, you know, do they, um, do they play off of each other or do they one help the other, that, that type of thing?

Gene Reid: Yeah, like I said, I have just found that physical fitness is like, for me personally, everybody’s different. Um, it’s just the quickest way to self awareness. And when I started getting involved in endurance events, when I would go for long runs, I’ll give you an example. This Saturday, I have a 10 mile run.

Now, the people who are like, true endurance athletes, that’s a blip on the radar, that’s nothing. For me right now, I’m kind of in the middle of like this marathon training program, but when I go for a 10 mile run, I don’t listen to any music, I just go. And I, that’s a strategic decision to not listen to music because what I have learned is it builds self awareness.

It builds self management because I think if you go out and, and [00:31:00] again, there’s nothing wrong with listening to music if you want to work out or go for a run, that’s totally cool. I just use it as a training mechanism for my brain, to be totally honest with you. My brain, during the first two miles of a 10 mile run, is very noisy, and it’s annoying.

And I have learned how to teach myself to calm that thing down, relax, and then we just finish out the run. But I’ve done this over years and years and years. So that has been, for me, it’s funny because there’s, there are two camps, right? People who listen to music when they run, and people who don’t. And if you don’t, they think you’re A psychotic freak, but for me, it’s really beneficial.

It’s very beneficial. And I want to talk about actually Jiu Jitsu too. So I have back since I started the business, I backed off of Jiu Jitsu a little bit and got back more into the endurance stuff. Here’s what I learned about myself. And this comes down to self awareness. And the only way to figure this out is by doing difficult things.

When I was doing Jiu Jitsu four or five, six days a week. [00:32:00] Uh, I wasn’t really doing a lot of endurance stuff, mainly because my body hurt all the time, and I just couldn’t really go for long runs. But I started to become a little more anxious than usual, and Jiu Jitsu is this great thing, and people love it, but for some reason with me, I started becoming more anxious, and had more episodes of like, anxiety, like, what the heck is going on?

Jiu Jitsu is supposed to be this great thing. But what I realized is, for me personally, when I go to Jiu Jitsu, I don’t think about anything else. I can’t think about anything else because somebody’s effectively trying to strangle you. What I realized about myself is, I need time for my brain to think and like do its thing.

And that’s what I was missing. I was missing that with these long endurance events. So when I go out for these long runs now, oh dude, that’s just straight meditation for me. No music, no distraction, but I was missing that. So the only way to figure that out, again, for me, in this building self awareness, and here I am, 34 [00:33:00] years old, I’ve been doing this for a long time, and like, now I’m just realizing this about myself.

This self awareness thing is a never ending game. It’s constantly evolving, it’s constantly moving on. But then the running side of things, and fitness, you’re gonna have to, at some point, manage your emotions, because if you’re doing a really strenuous workout, there’s this thing that I do, I actually convinced, when I first got promoted to Sergeant, I convinced, A few young officers to do with me.

I do a mile of lunges, like every six months. Um, it’s a terrible endeavor. I don’t recommend it, but it’s totally doable, but it is an exercise in self management because you get done the first lap, you go to a track and you got three more to do, and you’re thinking to yourself, there’s no way I can possibly do 800 more lunges or whatever the number is, whatever it comes down to.

But I’ve just always found that physical fitness. It’s just a great way to bridge this gap and really develop self awareness, self management. And then if you’re doing jiu [00:34:00] jitsu and other things, you have the social aspect of it. And then I’m telling you, it just makes life easier. It really does. It’s just, and when you are physically fit and you’re confident in yourself and you carry yourself that way, people see that and that’s where that relationship management comes in.

And you can’t fake that.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s a good point, uh, because you do, you do see people who are, you know, physically fit that you, you see someone who is self confident and you look at that person’s like, okay, well. You know, from a law enforcement or military perspective, I’m not gonna screw with that guy or, or, or, or the lady, you know, I’m not gonna screw with them because that person’s probably got their shit together and they’re going to mess me up if I go and mess with them.

So I’m not going to go mess with them. Uh, I might mess with that other person who is maybe a little more timid, maybe doesn’t quite have their, their stuff together, looks out of shape, uh, that type of thing. Cause. [00:35:00] Hell, that’s going to be a lot easier to get what I want from that person, um, and go mess with that person because they’re not, they’re not in shape.

They’re not confident in their abilities. Um, the other person, no way, I’m, I’m, I’m leaving them alone, you know,

Gene Reid: You know what’s funny? And they could be, maybe that person who’s super in shape and they look really physically fit, maybe they’re not. Maybe they’re terrible at self defense and they’re actually like not very confident people. But guess what? Nobody’s going to, chances are people are not going to test that.

Whereas, uh, the person who looks out of shape and they’re kind of disheveled, maybe they’re a black belt in jiu jitsu. Who knows, right? Maybe, but you never know. But, the point is, if you come across this confident, you look the part, you act the part, you talk the part, people probably are not going to test you.

Scott DeLuzio: right. I mean, we judge the book by its cover. I mean, that’s, that’s just kind of what we do and we look at, uh, people and we. Do [00:36:00] exactly what you just said. You know, if, if you look like you’re going to mess me up, I’m not going to mess with, you know, that’s. That’s for my own self preservation, my own self awareness.

I don’t, I don’t want to, I don’t want to get my face pounded into the ground. Like, let’s, let’s leave that guy alone. Um, yeah, I might be totally wrong about the person, but, um, but yeah, we, we make those, those kind of judgments and decisions that way. So, um, yeah, carrying yourself that way definitely has, has some benefits.

So I guess getting physically fit, being. You know, uh, at least showing that you’re, you’re confident, um, it is good for, um, you know, that exterior, um, uh, you know, relationships and, and all that kind of stuff. Um, so this emotional intelligence, um, it, it’s actually as the more we’re talking about it, the more I start thinking about other situations that have come up in my life and my [00:37:00] military career and, um, you know, other things that I’ve experienced where.

Like you said, before you even knew what emotional intelligence was, you kind of figured it out. I had some interactions with it. I just didn’t realize that’s what I was interacting with. Um, and so there’s probably a lot of folks out there who have gone through some challenges and probably utilize some of these, these principles that you were talking about.

Um, and probably figured out that they were helpful in. Solving whatever that problem was. Um, sometimes like, like what you, you had that, that situation with that, that officer that you wanted to tear him a new one, but held back and didn’t. Um, sometimes we stuff down some of that emotional baggage that we might be carrying and.

What if we don’t unpack that later on? Like, what if [00:38:00] you didn’t correct that officer later on, you know, maybe in private, or what if, what if you just kind of held onto that? Got to imagine that’s going to play some, some role, uh, in a negative way, uh, on our, our mental health and our, our, you know, overall wellbeing, right?

Gene Reid: Yeah, you’re going to become very grumpy and nobody’s going to like you. That’s it. Not really, you have to. Like, what I say about emotions and I talk about in my book is, No matter what emotions you’re feeling, they’re not wrong. It’s totally acceptable to be angry, sad, jealous, whatever the emotion is. Now, how you respond to that emotion is, that’s what we’re talking about.

And there’s a difference between reacting and responding. When you react to something, it’s a split second decision. You’re angry, so you yell, right? Well, chances are, it probably wasn’t the best way to handle that. If you respond to emotions, again, it comes back to emotional intelligence. It’s part of self awareness and self management.

Uh, when you respond to things, you have to take a couple seconds. All right, how am I going to address this? But [00:39:00] yeah, if you, man, listen, if this traverses everything in your life, whether it’s your marriage, how you treat your kids, um, your relationships at work, your neighbors, whatever you’re driving on the road, listen, people are going to annoy you.

Things are going to happen. You’re going to have to suppress those emotions sometimes. Like if you’re dealing with kids, I don’t know if you have kids. Sometimes my kids, yeah, my kids annoy the hell out of me sometimes. I can’t be mean to them in the moment because I understand the long term ramifications of that.

So maybe I do stuff those down in the moment, but then later on in the night my wife and I talk about it. We make it into a funny thing, you know, we just vent, we communicate about it. But if I never do that, well then, that stuff just builds and builds and builds. And then throw on top of this, if you’re somebody who has a coping mechanism, let’s say you like use alcohol to cope.

And you don’t exercise, well, you’re just 10Xing the ramifications, the negative side of [00:40:00] this, uh, and you’re going to be on just. You know, unfortunately, we see this a lot in law enforcement. I mean, I was never in the military, so I can’t really speak to the military that much, but I know it’s pretty similar in these conversations that I’ve had.

You know, people do 20 years in law enforcement, and they look terrible. They look terrible when they come out, they really do. And I have young, I have conversations with young officers now, and this is advice that I was given, and I’m really sticking to it. My goal is to come into this profession, or I’m sorry, to leave this profession better than I came in, I want to be in better physical condition and better mentally than when I came in.

So I see younger officers say they have three, four years on, um, and they’re starting to look a little disheveled. I just tell them like, dude, listen, here’s the goal. The goal is not the pension, the benefits, all that. That’s all cool. That’s great. Okay. But really like you need to think longterm. The goal here is come out of this like a stud.

You look good. You feel good. And you can [00:41:00] walk away with your head high, but you’re gonna have to learn how to manage your emotions to do that.

Scott DeLuzio: That’s right. Yeah, because like you said, sometimes folks will turn to stuff like alcohol or, you know, other substances to, uh, mask those emotions, you know, the mask, those feelings that they’re having, and they use that to cover it up. Um, those, they’re not actually dealing with anything that way. It’s just, It’s really just like a temporary solution to it.

Maybe they feel good in that moment as, as they’re drinking. Um, but the next morning they’re going to feel like crap. Um, and it’s really not going to solve anything. So, um, so that’s. You know, kind of, kind of important. And I think a good way to think about it, what you just said, you know, you see, see that person who’s just a few years into the job and already starting to look like they’re, they’re heading down the wrong path, um, just [00:42:00] remind them, Hey, you got a whole lot more life to live, uh, after this, um, you know, even if you do put in 20 years, uh, you know, maybe not everyone does, but if you do, um, What’s next?

There’s going to be something that’s next. You want to be ready for that. Um, just like you want to be ready for whatever it is you’re dealing with today. So, you know, start getting ready now. It doesn’t get any easier. Uh, I’m a little bit older than you are. It doesn’t get any easier than, uh, than when you’re younger, you know, getting in physical shape.

Oh, I, I’ll go to the gym tomorrow. Well, tomorrow’s going to be harder than it is today. Get, get your ass up, go, go to the gym, do the work, put it in, um, you know, and, and eat right. Uh, you know, all this kind of stuff. Don’t, don’t use alcohol or other substances as that, that coping mechanism. Oh, I had a, I had a rough day.

I need a drink. No, you don’t. You need to, you need to go to the gym. It’s probably what you need to do. Right. You, but you need to be self aware [00:43:00] enough to be able to manage that.

Gene Reid: And I think, uh, you brought up some really good points there. The thing with like self awareness and this is an exercise I work with people on, but. And it sounds a little woo woo, I get it, but you really need to like, figure out what your vision is. You need to actually like, physically sit down, and dude, I didn’t do this until about two years ago.

I talk about this stuff, but I never, I didn’t actually do it and become very firmly aware of it until about two years ago. You actually have to sit down and write out what your perfect day is, like, what does that look like? Um, and mine, I wrote it down. Actually, my wife and I did this activity separate.

So I wrote mine down. It’s like a, mine’s about five pages long. And dude, it’s everything from when I wake up in the morning, this is how I want to feel. This is how I want my wife to feel when she sees me. What’s my bank account look like? How much money do I have? Uh, however, my kids, like all this stuff, you write it all out and then my wife and I should compare.

Luckily, we were pretty [00:44:00] much, you know, very similar, but I say to do it like with your significant other or spouse or whoever because, you know, if your vision is light years away from theirs, it’s just, it’s not going to happen. But I talk about the vision thing because if you just start making decisions like, oh, I’m going to go to the gym, I’m going to do that or this, if there’s nothing behind that, if there’s no, Deep rooted reason for you doing it, you’re going to be like everybody else.

You’re going to do it for a month or two, and then you’re just going to fade off. But if you know that, you know, when you’re 60 years old, you want to be in like better physical shape than your kids or whatever your goal is, I don’t know. But that needs to be a lifelong commitment to that. And then every time you go to do something, like for me personally, like I just don’t drink alcohol.

It’s not that I ever had a problem with it. It’s just not my thing. I got this Garmin watch. When I started doing triathlons and I realized that if I had any alcohol in my system within 10 hours of going to bed, it [00:45:00] would totally destroy my recovery, my sleep score, like all these different things. And that was like very eye opening for me.

And then when I stopped having alcohol, my performance went through the roof. I could, I could do more things. But, you know, when you come across, if you have this lofty vision and then you’re sitting at home and you want to have a drink, you just have to ask yourself, okay, how does this align with my vision?

If it aligns with your vision, cool, go have the drink. That’s, that’s totally fine. But if it doesn’t, and it’s really not going to get you to where you want to go, well, then you probably shouldn’t do it. But again, it comes back to self awareness. You got to be self aware enough to do these things.

Scott DeLuzio: You know, how, how does this help achieve whatever my objective is, if it’s better, better physical health, better mental health, um, we’ll, we’ll, whatever this thing is, we’re, I think we’re picking on alcohol here, which is fine because that, that’s a common thing that a lot of people use, but whatever that thing is, um, that, that you are considering doing, does [00:46:00] that help me Reach that goal.

You know, if you wanna lose weight, um, having, having that cookie probably isn’t gonna help, uh, you know, help you lose weight. Um, so you gotta think to yourself like, is it worth it? Is it worth all that extra work that is going to be required to burn off whatever that cookie added? Um, it’s certainly not taking anything away, so do you really need it?

I, I think you can probably justify just not having it. Whatsoever, you know, and, um, you know, so anyways, picking on those, those kinds of things, but, uh, I guess the mindset there is, is like what you’re, you’re just talking about how, how you need to, um, uh, just consider what is actually going to help whatever it is that you’re, you’re trying to achieve.

Uh, it could be your career, it could be relationships, could be personal, uh, related issues. Um, you [00:47:00] even mentioned, what does that perfect, uh, day look like and what’s in your bank account? Okay, take a look at your bank account. Is it looking the way you want it to? If it’s not, why? You know, are you spending too much?

Are you not making enough? You know, there’s, there’s things that you need to, um, of course we all could make more money. Like no, no one’s paid enough. There’s never anybody who, the history of employment that’s like, oh yeah, I’m getting paid too much. No. So like we all could make, make more, but, um. There’s, uh, there’s those things that you just need to look at and say, okay, well, this is not helping me achieve that objective of having X amount in the bank.

Okay. Well, I won’t spend the money on that. Um, or, or maybe I’ll find a better job that pays a little bit more, um, that type of thing. But you have to be aware enough to, to look at that stuff and figure out what it is that you need to do. And, um, uh, I think all that’s pretty important. Um, and just in, in life in general, it’s not even, um.

You [00:48:00] know, career necessarily focus. It’s just life decisions that you make. Um, which of course your career is a part of. Um, but I want, I want to jump real quick to your podcast. You briefly mentioned it before, but the, The Science of Self-Development, um, podcast, you, you talk about different topics related to personal growth and leadership, things like that.

Um, tell us a little bit more about the show and what listeners can hope to take away when they, they tune in and listen, which I encourage people to go and subscribe to. to that show.

Gene Reid: Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah, it’s called The Science of Self-Development, and really, again, kind of how I latched on to emotional intelligence for this framework for leadership, um, I latch on to self development just as a mechanism to propel in life, right? And there’s always, now I’ve always been interested in the scientific side of things, so I try to bring both science and philosophy into these different things.

So on some of the episodes, we’ll talk about this concept of the paradigm and habits [00:49:00] and how you can build and maintain new habits. We also talked about things like the spotlight effect, which is great. I love the spotlight effect that just, for example, the spotlight effect is when you think you’re the center of everybody else’s universe, right?

Like it’s the person that goes to the gym or they’re preventing themselves from going to the gym. Cause they think everybody’s watching them. Ain’t nobody watching you. Everybody’s so. Oh, nobody cares. Everybody’s so self focused on themselves that, and they’ve done studies on this, and it’s fascinating to look at the studies.

We overestimate the amount of attention we’re getting by three, four, if not five times the amount of people that are actually paying attention to us. So I created the podcast to educate people on these things, right? If you know that, you can definitely think back to a time when you thought to yourself, maybe you were given a public speaking thing.

Maybe it was not going to the gym or whatever because you thought everybody was thinking this thing about you. Guess what? It’s not true. It’s just not. It’s backed by science and that’s what I do. I explain [00:50:00] to people these different Uh, scientific philosophies and theories. And I’ll oftentimes like share a personal story of mine or maybe a story with somebody else, but that’s the whole premise behind, uh, behind the podcast.

It’s fun. I do real short little videos. They’re probably only 10, 15 minutes long, but, uh, I’m trying to relate to today’s generation with short. Shorter kind of, uh, conversations, if you will, but you know, it’s funny, I just said that, but, um, you know, I listen to podcasts that are two and a half, three and a half hours long all the time, so it probably doesn’t need to be short, but, uh,

Scott DeLuzio: Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of times the, the attention span just isn’t there. You know, there’s, there’s so many other things competing for the attention that, um, you know, they, they want the, the short bite sized, uh, clips. It’s like just. Tell me what I need to know and I’m moving on, that type of thing sometimes.

Um, but other times, the long form content, uh, helps too. Um, the, you know, these episodes that I do tend to be about [00:51:00] 45 minutes to an hour, uh, somewhere around there, and, um, it’s certainly longer than, than Uh, the type of content that you’re putting out, but it’s no, you know, Joe Rogan length or, you know, Jocko or, you know, any of those who are there five, six, seven hours or anything crazy like that.

So, um, my gosh, I couldn’t imagine sitting in and trying to figure out how to come up with that much content for, for such a long show. But, um, but anyways, it, it, the, the podcast, again, science of self development, um, To me that, that sounds super interesting to dig into the why and the how, and the, the, the data that that goes behind.

Um, some of these things that we think about that may just be completely wrong. Um, we, but, you know, you don’t, you don’t know that until you start looking at the data. Um, and then once you use that data, you can maybe overcome some of the insecurities that you might have. Um. You know, I, I had a friend once who was similar [00:52:00] to what you were just describing.

It’s like, I don’t want to go to that place because everyone’s going to be looking at me. Or, you know, I don’t want to wear this, this certain thing because, uh, you know, it’s going to look weird and everyone’s going to be judging me or whatever. And I was like, look, man, don’t take this the wrong way, but nobody cares about you.

You walk in that room, nobody cares that you walked in, whether you walked in or not, their day is not changing. So forget about it and just walk in and be yourself. And that’ll be the best thing for you. Um, you know, it’s, you know, it’s hard to overcome some of that stuff sometimes, but it’s good to have the reminders like you’re putting out there in, in your show.

Gene Reid: yeah, you know, I find if you can put a name to something, a lot of times people are like, oh, this is that thing that Gene was talking about on the episode, but you’d be surprised how many people Say you have an awkward interaction with somebody at Wawa, like you’ve never met this person in your life and you go into the store and it’s like an awkward thing at the door and then you think about that for the rest of the day.

Um, that person hasn’t thought about you 30 seconds [00:53:00] after that happened.

Scott DeLuzio: right, right. It was, they, they forgotten about it by the time they got to their car and, and you’re letting it control and dictate the rest of your day and your emotions and all this stuff, let it go. It’s over, it’s done. Um, but you know, we all have those, those moments, you know, even years later, you might think back to something that happened in second grade or something like, man, that was stupid, you know, that type of thing that, that happened.

Um, but whoever that interaction happened with. I guarantee you, they’re not thinking about it at all. Uh, they, they don’t care. Um, but, you know, sometimes we just get in our head and get in our own way, and it’s, like I said, it’s good to have those reminders that, um, you know, when you put a name to it, like you said, um, that you can let it go, just like the other person did, and it’s really not that big a deal. Um, before we wrap up this show, so I, I usually like to end the show with a little bit of humor. Sometimes I show a video that, that’s [00:54:00] funny or, um, you know, tell a joke or trivia or do something that just to lighten the mood a little bit. Sometimes the episodes that we have are a little bit heavy. So, uh, got a little police related joke, um, that, that might be.

Might be funny, I don’t know. Sometimes my delivery’s not there, but we’ll see. I sometimes make a fool of myself and I don’t really care. You can laugh at me, or laugh at the joke. I don’t care. As long as someone’s laughing at the end of this, I’m happy. So, alright, a guy who’s, who’s a juggler, like he juggles things, uh, he’s driving to his next performance and he gets pulled over by the police. And, and the police officer asks him, what are all these, these matches and lighter fluid doing in your car? And he says, Oh, I’m a juggler and I juggle flaming torches in my act. And the police officer didn’t believe him. So he said, okay, let’s see you do it. So he gets out of the car, pulls out all his equipment and lights them on fire.

Starts juggling the blazing torches and he’s doing it perfectly. No, one’s getting hurt and everything’s good. And there’s a guy, he’s driving a couple driving by and they slow down to watch. [00:55:00] The guy goes, man, I am glad that I quit drinking. Look at the tests that they’re given now.

Gene Reid: That was a good joke. That was good.

Scott DeLuzio: So, you know,

Gene Reid: mean, you thought of the amount of policy violations that are happening there. And then, back to my own days of doing DUI investigations. That was a very good joke. Well done.

Scott DeLuzio: hopefully that’s, that’s, uh, yeah, yeah. I, not being a police officer, like, I don’t know the exact steps that would go through all of this, but I figured it’s at least somewhat directionally, uh, you know, relevant for a short joke. So, um, yeah, good thing at least that that guy quit drinking. So, you know,

Gene Reid: Yeah, there’s a positive to it, right?

Scott DeLuzio: There you go.

Um, so anyways, Gene, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you today. I think, um, this kind of insight into emotional intelligence and again, putting a name to it because prior to, uh, speaking with you and kind of looking into [00:56:00] the things that you do, um, like I knew about. These things that happened, but I never really had a name to put to it.

Um, and it’s good that, that I could think about it this way. And now it’s, it’s something that I could maybe focus more attention on. And, um, you know, we all can, can use it to help improve our own lives. So, um, definitely been a pleasure speaking with you today. Um, uh, before, before we go though, uh, where can people go to get in touch with you, find out more about the speaking that you do, uh, learn about your coaching and, and get a.

Copy of your book.

Gene Reid: Yeah, sure. So, a copy of my book, it’s on Amazon. It’s called Police Leadership Redefined, the EQ Advantage. Um, again, that’s on Amazon. The title says it’s for police only, but actually I’ve had a lot of, uh Some speaking engagements come up from financial institutions that read the book. So the book applies to, yeah, there’s police scenarios in there and whatnot, but it applies, you know, emotional intelligence applies to everybody.

And as far as like my training and coaching business, you can go to readsolutionsllc. [00:57:00] com and I’ll just tell you right now, my training presentations, uh, it’s one of three topics. It’s emotional intelligence, uh, self development and then leadership. And really like, that’s my thing. That’s my area of expertise.

Uh, if you’re looking for something outside of that, I’m not your guy and I’m okay with that. Uh, but the coaching thing really, what I have found is I go to do these training sessions and they’re great. I love doing them. Uh, again, public speaking is something that I’ve really just learned to love. But if I’m being totally honest, if I go to give a four hour presentation or an eight hour presentation, within three days, most people have forgotten a lot of what I talked about.

Within a week, they don’t even remember what my name is. So if an organization is really looking to grasp onto this and they really want those long term benefits, well, that’s why I come in from more of a long term standpoint, I come in and give a training presentation, but then I work with you for three, six, nine months to really make sure that this stuff takes hold.

Um, but all that information is on my [00:58:00] website again, reidsolutionsllc. com. And really you just book a call with me. We talk about what you need and then we get you on the right track.

Scott DeLuzio: Perfect. And I’ll have links to all of that in the show notes for folks and also a link to your podcast so that folks can subscribe to that as well. Um, again, Gene, thank you for taking the time to come on and share, uh, you know, everything that you do with us and, uh, and hopefully make some impact in the folks who are, who are listening.

Gene Reid: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

Scott DeLuzio: You bet.

Thanks for listening to the Drive On Podcast. If you want to support the show, please check out Scott’s book, Surviving Son on Amazon. All of the sales from that book go directly back into this podcast and work to help veterans in need. You can also follow the Drive On Podcast on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, and wherever you listen to podcasts.

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